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(The New York Times)   Microsoft just can't catch a break. Slate sales in the 4th quarter: 1 million. iPad sales in its first 3 days: 3 million   (bits.blogs.nytimes.com) divider line 118
    More: Obvious, iPads, Microsoft, IHS iSuppli, Microsoft Surface, slates  
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1418 clicks; posted to Geek » on 16 Jan 2013 at 9:19 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-16 09:21:49 AM
For the product they JUST launched, compared to the unquestioned giant in the space?

No shiat, Sherlock.

Also the RT is just not as attractive to people. I don't know that it will ever gain that much traction. The Surface platform will probably ride on Win8 Pro tablets over the next 2 years.
 
2013-01-16 09:25:37 AM
Yeah, but they're totally kicking Apple's ass with their Zune.
 
2013-01-16 09:26:15 AM
When did moving 1 million pieces of product in a quarter become a bad thing?
 
2013-01-16 09:29:54 AM
What does the article have to do with HP?
 
2013-01-16 09:30:20 AM

styckx: When did moving 1 million pieces of product in a quarter become a bad thing?


When the collective attention span of our society became roughly a week.
 
2013-01-16 09:33:19 AM
It's only because the Surface sucks ass.
I was hugely disappointed with the performance, and lack of apps for the thing. Developers are not writing for Win RT.
Even Samsung decided that they would not enter the Win RT tablet market, for lack of demand.
The full Win 8 Tablets probably will sell decent, but right now they are at a premium price point.
 
2013-01-16 09:34:09 AM

LasersHurt: For the product they JUST launched, compared to the unquestioned giant in the space?

No shiat, Sherlock.

Also the RT is just not as attractive to people. I don't know that it will ever gain that much traction. The Surface platform will probably ride on Win8 Pro tablets over the next 2 years.


Just launched = October 26st 2012?
 
2013-01-16 09:36:16 AM
graphics8.nytimes.com

I know Balmer is very important to Microsoft, but he really shouldn't be their spokesperson, he just looks creepy. Hire a handsome person with some basic knowledge. Surely they have a handsome engineer who worked on the product.
 
2013-01-16 09:38:30 AM

stuhayes2010: LasersHurt: For the product they JUST launched, compared to the unquestioned giant in the space?

No shiat, Sherlock.

Also the RT is just not as attractive to people. I don't know that it will ever gain that much traction. The Surface platform will probably ride on Win8 Pro tablets over the next 2 years.

Just launched = October 26st 2012?


So it's been out for 2.5 months?

Yes, "just launched." It's literally the first quarter of results.
 
2013-01-16 09:41:05 AM
"IE will NEVER catch up with Netscape. They have the browser market locked up."

"WordPerfect is the de-facto standard. This Word program is trash!"
"Excel can never complete with Lotus 1-2-3. WTF is 'Windows'?"


"Microsoft is foolish to think they can ever catch up to Apple in the tablet space."
 
2013-01-16 09:46:49 AM
If I didn't already have an Android tablet, I might buy the Surface.
 
2013-01-16 09:46:53 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: It's only because the Surface sucks ass.
I was hugely disappointed with the performance, and lack of apps for the thing. Developers are not writing for Win RT.



One reason could be because of how the opened it up to mobile developers.  A friend of mine published a relatively popular win mobile app and was anxious to do some win8 mobile/RT coding but found out, literally months before release, that they were only giving the development kit to people who had previously published win mobile apps...and even then there was a chance you wouldn't get it.  Not long after they opened it up but you had to freaking pay for the development kit (or the ability to publish apps...can't remember).

Don't take all this as gospel as I haven't really looked it up.  I was interested in mobile coding myself and need to develop some products in the next couple of years but right now I have my hands full with desktop business stuff.  I heard this through my friend who was quite frustrated so I didn't even bother with it.

In any case, I expected the price to be lower if they wanted to compete with Apple.  That tablet should have hit the market quite a bit lower than the equivalent Apple tablet.
 
2013-01-16 09:53:13 AM

nmemkha: "IE will NEVER catch up with Netscape. They have the browser market locked up."

"WordPerfect is the de-facto standard. This Word program is trash!"
"Excel can never complete with Lotus 1-2-3. WTF is 'Windows'?"

"Microsoft is foolish to think they can ever catch up to Apple in the tablet space."


"The Zune will never replace the iPod."
 
2013-01-16 09:59:52 AM
Should've went with the Courier.
 
2013-01-16 10:01:36 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: It's only because the Surface sucks ass.
I was hugely disappointed with the performance, and lack of apps for the thing. Developers are not writing for Win RT.
Even Samsung decided that they would not enter the Win RT tablet market, for lack of demand.
The full Win 8 Tablets probably will sell decent, but right now they are at a premium price point.


The "desktop" will be an "app" one day.
 
2013-01-16 10:07:05 AM

UberDave: That tablet should have hit the market quite a bit lower than the equivalent Apple tablet.


This.

As I see it there are two reasons I've bought computers that run Windows in the past. The lesser of the two is that I find it's much much easier to find free programs to accomplish tasks that the basic OS and the utilities it comes with either can't do or doesn't do in the way I would like (for example batch converting audio file types, or analyzing codec information on video files and stuff like that).

More importantly, I get far better performance per dollar spent on desktops and laptops. If it was reversed and Apple provided the better value, I'd probably own more mac stuff, especially since I tend to work on Apple stuff professionally. Instead all my personal gear is Windows (running Mac Drive so that data management isn't a problem) and the production rents the expensive stuff for us.

If the Surface is priced similarly to the iPad, there's no earthly reason to choose it over the iPad since you'd get neither an advantage in app selection nor in price point.
 
2013-01-16 10:15:11 AM
Microsoft Employee #1: Apple and Amazon are making lots of money selling tablets. We should make a tablet.
Microsoft Employee #2: What's a tablet?
Microsoft Employee #1: Its a laptop without a keyboard.
Microsoft Employee #2: Brilliant! Lets make one with a keyboard!
Microsoft Employee #1: . . . Brilliant!
 
2013-01-16 10:17:09 AM

styckx: When did moving 1 million pieces of product in a quarter become a bad thing?


Yeah I was reading this thing about how nintendo failed because it only shipped 400,000 new wiis.
 
2013-01-16 10:22:09 AM

CPennypacker: Microsoft Employee #1: Apple and Amazon are making lots of money selling tablets. We should make a tablet.
Microsoft Employee #2: What's a tablet?
Microsoft Employee #1: Its a laptop without a keyboard.
Microsoft Employee #2: Brilliant! Lets make one with a keyboard!
Microsoft Employee #1: . . . Brilliant!


To be fair, anyone I know who uses an iPad for more than Angry Birds generally has a little stand for the unit and a keyboard to go with it.
 
2013-01-16 10:23:31 AM
When it's introduced by Uncle Fester, there may be an image problem.
 
2013-01-16 10:31:28 AM

styckx: When did moving 1 million pieces of product in a quarter become a bad thing?


Analysts were expecting it to move 2 million, so it underperformed their already low estimates. Not a great start.
 
2013-01-16 10:32:16 AM
Too bad they aren't able to track how many devices were returned.

I only know one person that bought an RT tablet (fanboi) and he ended up returning it after Xmas because it really couldn't do what he wanted. He does plan on getting the Pro version - but he is planning on using a mouse with it - so who knows.
 
2013-01-16 10:34:31 AM
And this in spite of the fact I saw stupid numbers of commercials for the Surface throughout the holiday season and multiple CBS shows (and probably other networks) very blatantly showed their characters using them. I easily saw 3x more commercials for the Surface than I did for the iPad- but expected that they'd get stomped in sales despite a much higher amount of advertising...
 
2013-01-16 10:39:58 AM
I went to a focus group about tablets -- the crowd was mostly unhip, older folk. The one unifying message they had was that they wanted a tablet that could run Excel and Powerpoint. I tried to tell them that Microsoft already had one, but I just got blank stares back. What they *really* want is for Excel and Powerpoint to run on an iPad. The Reality Distortion Field is still fairly intense, even with Jobs gone and the stock in the toilet.
 
2013-01-16 10:40:04 AM
Despite my continually increasing hatred of Windows 8 Pro the longer I use it, I could see a way in which I would get a Surface Pro. If, when I switched between tablet and desktop mode, the interface switched between the live tiles/metro touch mode and a useful point and click mode (say, when a mouse is plugged in), I would snap one up for work use.

But as long as Frankengui remains the only available option, I will only grudgingly use Windows 8 Pro on my desktop to the extent that I absolutely must.

/ Surface RT is just plain stupid, though...
// why wouldn't I get a good tablet instead, exactly?
 
2013-01-16 10:40:38 AM
i47.tinypic.com
 
2013-01-16 10:45:16 AM

flaminio: I went to a focus group about tablets -- the crowd was mostly unhip, older folk. The one unifying message they had was that they wanted a tablet that could run Excel and Powerpoint. I tried to tell them that Microsoft already had one, but I just got blank stares back. What they *really* want is for Excel and Powerpoint to run on an iPad. The Reality Distortion Field is still fairly intense, even with Jobs gone and the stock in the toilet.


They may get what they want.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020343690457715484090681 6 210.html

You'll have to copy and paste. Fark won't link the WSJ article.
 
2013-01-16 10:47:19 AM

flaminio: I went to a focus group about tablets -- the crowd was mostly unhip, older folk. The one unifying message they had was that they wanted a tablet that could run Excel and Powerpoint. I tried to tell them that Microsoft already had one, but I just got blank stares back. What they *really* want is for Excel and Powerpoint to run on an iPad. The Reality Distortion Field is still fairly intense, even with Jobs gone and the stock in the toilet.


Apple does have some good hardware, you have to admit. I still have an 80 gig iPod from the days before the touch. Of course, I run a third party firmware on it because iTunes is a farking abortion of an audio player... but the iPod itself still works wonderfully.

/Except the ear buds it comes with. I'm not an audiophile or anything but could they have designed a less effective earbud?
 
2013-01-16 10:48:26 AM
Maybe if their ads showed what they could do better than an iPad instead of showing dancing hipsters and angry school girls people might buy them. The 'click' sound made when a keyboard is attached is not very enticing to me as a reason to buy something.

Assuming they can do something better than an iPad.
 
2013-01-16 10:54:50 AM

moothemagiccow: styckx: When did moving 1 million pieces of product in a quarter become a bad thing?

Yeah I was reading this thing about how nintendo failed because it only shipped 400,000 new wiis.


You must browse the IGN boards where 80% of the user base is a card carding analyst of the NYC financial district.
 
2013-01-16 10:57:33 AM

TheGreatGazoo: Maybe if their ads showed what they could do better than an iPad instead of showing dancing hipsters and angry school girls people might buy them. The 'click' sound made when a keyboard is attached is not very enticing to me as a reason to buy something.

Assuming they can do something better than an iPad.


Maybe it can't.

And to be honest, that was my impression of the commercials, too.  I never pictured myself in a situation where I'd be dancing around looking for someone to click my tablet with.

But I would like to wear the tablet suit they build in the commercial.
 
2013-01-16 10:58:13 AM

nmemkha: "IE will NEVER catch up with Netscape. They have the browser market locked up."

"WordPerfect is the de-facto standard. This Word program is trash!"
"Excel can never complete with Lotus 1-2-3. WTF is 'Windows'?"

"Microsoft is foolish to think they can ever catch up to Apple in the tablet space."


xbox. why does no one ever remember the poo pooing from gamers when msft said they were going to make a game console?
 
2013-01-16 10:58:53 AM
I own a Surface...and I am enjoying it a great deal. For me, it is the perfect combination of tablet and netbook that allows me to do more than play Angry Birds, surf Fark and reply to emails from my mom. I know people are going to shout me down for liking something they do not, but I think it rocks. Having a full fledged version of Office, native Remote Desktop, integration with my 360, Skydrive (which syncs any changes damn near instantly), two day battery life and a USB port that acts the same as it does on my desktop are all very alluring features to me.

Also, the Metro Modern UX is really functional on a touchscreen although still a very ugly baby. I can not argue that the third party app selection is incredibly limited at this time. However, the one that I want most, VLC, is going to be arriving shortly.

All in all, I would call it a successful bridge product that spans the gap between usage at work and at home.

/Not an MS shill
//Still hate the bipolar schizophrenic behavior of Win 8 on a full sized desktop
 
2013-01-16 11:01:07 AM
Maybe it's because I've been using a mouse for 30 years, but I just can't get too excited over the types of touch screens we have. I'd love to have a pressure sensitive screen ala` Cintiq but tablets just aren't doing that yet.
 
2013-01-16 11:01:58 AM

CPennypacker: Microsoft Employee #1: Apple and Amazon are making lots of money selling tablets. We should make a tablet.
Microsoft Employee #2: What's a tablet?
Microsoft Employee #1: Its a laptop without a keyboard.
Microsoft Employee #2: Brilliant! Lets make one with a keyboard!
Microsoft Employee #1: . . . Brilliant!


I'm really digging this win8 notebook for about $450. Stuck an SSD in it and it rocks.
bg.asus.com
 
2013-01-16 11:02:32 AM

CPennypacker: Microsoft Employee #1: Apple and Amazon are making lots of money selling tablets. We should make a tablet.
Microsoft Employee #2: What's a tablet?

Microsoft Employee #3: Didn't we make those a decade ago?
Microsoft Employee #1: Yes, we did but now they're fashionable.
Microsoft Employee #2: Brilliant! Lets make one with a keyboard!
Microsoft Employee #1: . . . Brilliant!
 
2013-01-16 11:03:31 AM
Hardly surprising. You're not cool if you don't have an iProduct.
 
2013-01-16 11:04:55 AM

TheGreatGazoo: Maybe if their ads showed what they could do better than an iPad instead of showing dancing hipsters and angry school girls


maggiemenderski.files.wordpress.com

They're even pissed off using regular computers.
 
2013-01-16 11:11:01 AM

Mercutio74: CPennypacker: Microsoft Employee #1: Apple and Amazon are making lots of money selling tablets. We should make a tablet.
Microsoft Employee #2: What's a tablet?
Microsoft Employee #1: Its a laptop without a keyboard.
Microsoft Employee #2: Brilliant! Lets make one with a keyboard!
Microsoft Employee #1: . . . Brilliant!

To be fair, anyone I know who uses an iPad for more than Angry Birds generally has a little stand for the unit and a keyboard to go with it.


That's what I never understood about tablets and keyboards. Once you get a tablet with a keyboard, it costs just as much as an equally-sized and heavy laptop, and does less.
 
2013-01-16 11:11:59 AM
Apple's ads do a good job of not only making their things look cool but generally show people DOING SOMETHING with the item in question, or show some ADVANTAGE of the item in question even if they are waaaay overselling a minor advantage.

The Surface commercials were terrible for that with random colors and flying tablets. Compare that to the 15 second iPhone commercial with the guy taking a panoramic photo of all the kids saying "Cheeeeeeeeeeese". It's a minor feature but people can instantly relate and think "Oh, I couldn't do that before, I should get one of those!" Even if they NEVER USE THAT FEATURE.

What they need to do is include Word, Excel, and PowerPoint standard on these, first. I know those are cash cows but sell them later. Right now you want toget the tablets into people's hands.

"With Office built right in, there's no need for a separate app. No need to return to the office. Edit a Word document on-the-go and on-the-fly using the touchscreen, or unfold the cover and you have a real keyboard built right in. Then relax and enjoy a movie, a game, read a book, or listen to your favorite music. It's all included, and it's only on one, superportable, tablet. Microsoft Surface."

It's really not that hard.
 
2013-01-16 11:12:19 AM

Caelistis: I own a Surface...and I am enjoying it a great deal. For me, it is the perfect combination of tablet and netbook that allows me to do more than play Angry Birds, surf Fark and reply to emails from my mom. I know people are going to shout me down for liking something they do not, but I think it rocks. Having a full fledged version of Office, native Remote Desktop, integration with my 360, Skydrive (which syncs any changes damn near instantly), two day battery life and a USB port that acts the same as it does on my desktop are all very alluring features to me.

Also, the Metro Modern UX is really functional on a touchscreen although still a very ugly baby. I can not argue that the third party app selection is incredibly limited at this time. However, the one that I want most, VLC, is going to be arriving shortly.

All in all, I would call it a successful bridge product that spans the gap between usage at work and at home.

/Not an MS shill
//Still hate the bipolar schizophrenic behavior of Win 8 on a full sized desktop


I think their problem is that Surface is probably fine, and the comparison to iPad is probably a case of various pro's and con's and there isn't a clear winner if looked at objectively, but:

1) They were late to the market, so that is a disadvantage
2) Tying Surface and Win 8 Desktop UIs together means they put all their eggs in one basket

It would seem to make far more sense if Windows 8 has been desktop primarily, and had the ability to run Modern UI applications as well (in a window) - so that as Surface and Xbox (I presume Modern UI apps will work on Xbox, in the future if not already) builds up quality and quantity of Modern UI apps, so you could then take a call in Windows 9 of whether to try and transition Windows desktop to the backup, and switch Modern UI to be the default. Doing it when there is almost no third party Modern UI apps is moronic, and suggests they are betting the farm on the success of Surface, and would risk losing desktop supremacy to do so by alienating all their existing users.
 
2013-01-16 11:17:31 AM

Lord Dimwit: To be fair, anyone I know who uses an iPad for more than Angry Birds generally has a little stand for the unit and a keyboard to go with it.

That's what I never understood about tablets and keyboards. Once you get a tablet with a keyboard, it costs just as much as an equally-sized and heavy laptop, and does less.


Well, the keyboards I've seen the two people I know who do this are flimsy little pieces of a garbage so the overall weight is less, but you're right, the overall usefulness is very much degraded.

One of them even asked me why I have my laptop at work when I could just do what they do. I asked them how long it takes their iPad to render 30 seconds of 1080p video in After Effects.
 
2013-01-16 11:17:40 AM
Microsoft is so farking stupid. They spent a bajillion dollars making ink work, and when the ipad came out they crapped their pants and ran (well, waddled quickly) to touch. Now they have a hybrid Frankenstein system, many of which don't do ink or do it poorly. Their best Office product, OneNote, they make a crap version of for Android and iOS, and STILL refuse to promote on their own platform. If I were a programmer on the OneNote team I'd probably have killed myself by now. People see a weak app on ipads like "Paper" and are blown away, and they see the crippled horrid OneNote and go ugh.

Here's a factoid: by slapping a Wacom digitizer and some shiatty note/drawing software on a phone, Samsung has sold more of one model (Galaxy Note, no not even counting the Note II) than ALL Windows Phone 7-8s combined from all manufacturers for 2012. That could have been you, Microsoft, but you suck at marketing and product design.

El Uno Magnifico: Should've went with the Courier.


Yep. Over and over, M$ telegraphs that they have no vision. It makes me think of Chevrolet, honestly. They have one very good product (Corvette, Xbox), and some utilitarian ones (Trucks, Windows and Office), and then a bunch of mediocre and shiatty stuff, and they kill some of their best skunkworks products (courier, Saturn).
 
2013-01-16 11:20:27 AM
With more agressive pricing, Microsoft could actually make a go of this thing. It's not like they couldn't afford to throw around a few billion to buy market share.
 
2013-01-16 11:21:14 AM
I'm typing this on a Surface, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies....

I love the Surface. I also have an iPad and an Android tablet and frankly see little difference in day to day use. Except, of course, I can now leave my laptop at home on short business trips thanks to having MS Office on my Surface.

Yeah, the iPad has a brazillion apps and games but I'm a grownup and couldn't care less about killing pigs. Browsing, Netflix, Kindle, RDP, and Office all work great. Throw in a 64 gb sd card, connect an external drive to the USB port, and I have everything I need.
 
2013-01-16 11:25:19 AM

nmemkha: "IE will NEVER catch up with Netscape. They have the browser market locked up."

"WordPerfect is the de-facto standard. This Word program is trash!"
"Excel can never complete with Lotus 1-2-3. WTF is 'Windows'?"

"Microsoft is foolish to think they can ever catch up to Apple in the tablet space."


PS2 is perfect. What's an xbox?
 
2013-01-16 11:26:00 AM

Bacontastesgood: Microsoft is so farking stupid. They spent a bajillion dollars making ink work, and when the ipad came out they crapped their pants and ran (well, waddled quickly) to touch. Now they have a hybrid Frankenstein system, many of which don't do ink or do it poorly. Their best Office product, OneNote, they make a crap version of for Android and iOS, and STILL refuse to promote on their own platform. If I were a programmer on the OneNote team I'd probably have killed myself by now. People see a weak app on ipads like "Paper" and are blown away, and they see the crippled horrid OneNote and go ugh.

Here's a factoid: by slapping a Wacom digitizer and some shiatty note/drawing software on a phone, Samsung has sold more of one model (Galaxy Note, no not even counting the Note II) than ALL Windows Phone 7-8s combined from all manufacturers for 2012. That could have been you, Microsoft, but you suck at marketing and product design.

El Uno Magnifico: Should've went with the Courier.

Yep. Over and over, M$ telegraphs that they have no vision. It makes me think of Chevrolet, honestly. They have one very good product (Corvette, Xbox), and some utilitarian ones (Trucks, Windows and Office), and then a bunch of mediocre and shiatty stuff, and they kill some of their best skunkworks products (courier, Saturn).


Show me a small business that doesn't run some version of Win server?
 
2013-01-16 11:34:24 AM
oh hey, it's the daily "Microsoft not selling a piece of hardware as good as Apple and therefore is in dire straits as a company" thread.
 
2013-01-16 11:50:06 AM

ebamit:

Yeah, the iPad has a brazillion apps and games but I'm a grownup and couldn't care less about killing pigs. Browsing, Netflix, Kindle, RDP, and Office all work great. Throw in a 64 gb sd card, connect an external drive to the USB port, and I have everything I need.


If I'm going to be hauling around an external drive, then I may as well just take my laptop.
 
2013-01-16 11:51:37 AM

TheGreatGazoo: Maybe if their ads showed what they could do better than an iPad instead of showing dancing hipsters and angry school girls people might buy them. The 'click' sound made when a keyboard is attached is not very enticing to me as a reason to buy something.


Bingo.
 
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