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(Boing Boing)   US sells arms to mass murderers, and without a background check. This was only an outrage until 2009 and will not be an outrage again until 2017   (boingboing.net) divider line 42
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1792 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Jan 2013 at 8:59 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-16 08:14:39 AM
Awww, subby thinks a Republican will get elected President in '16. That's so cute
 
2013-01-16 08:29:47 AM
And Mexican drug lords.  Don't forget about them.
 
2013-01-16 08:30:03 AM

Peter von Nostrand: Awww, subby thinks a Republican will get elected President in '16. That's so cute


Generally, the electorate over the last 70 years has voted for two terms to one party then switch. LBJ and Bush I being the exceptions for longevity and Carter an exception the other way.
 
2013-01-16 08:33:14 AM
Arms sales to tyrants? It's not just for Republicans and realists. All the cool Nobel Peace Prize winners do it. But remember: only a family-values Republican banging his intern is hypocrisy. A Democrat perpetuating the arms trade and enabling genocide is an ignorable offense because they meant well and talked nicely and b-b-b-b-but Reagan or something.
 
2013-01-16 09:09:03 AM
When liberals criticize the Obama administration, it's "look, they hate America."

When they don't, it's "look, they're hypocrites."

We wouldn't be peddling weapons to tinpot dictators anywhere, ever, if it were up to me.
 
2013-01-16 09:12:39 AM
"I prefer people to fire my guns and miss.  Just as long as they are firing."
 
2013-01-16 09:15:13 AM
There was plenty of background checking. Observe:

Does your country find itself home to the United States Navy's Fifth Fleet? Check all which apply.

☑ Yes
☐ No
 
2013-01-16 09:18:42 AM
As far as I can tell this report wasn't known in 2009 (but just very recently).  And it looks like some kind of delivery report.  They highlight portions of the supply form but it has me confused.  Just about everything they highlight, which is mostly the "bad" stuff, has blank requisition amounts.  And they highlight nothing in the "Detailed Deliveries" portion.  According to that section, they delivered 32 "Other comm equip.", 4 "Missile..." (the rest is covered by a mouse-hover pop-up), and 20 "Truck Other".  And at the bottom, they highlight a list of carriers and troop transports with prices and such but nothing was delivered as noted by all the zeros in the "delivered quantity".

So, unless I am reading this incorrectly (and I've read my fair share of military delivery reports involving munitions...but it *has* been a while), I don't see anything horrible.
 
2013-01-16 09:20:49 AM
Note that unless you get UN sanctions or whatever through, generally you can't stop selling parts and ammunition to these nations as you are contractually bond to do so - if you were to cut them off without sanctions being imposed, then you wouldn't be trusted by potential buyers in future, so it is difficult to see how this can work - as any sanctions will usually take long enough to organize that most of the damage has been done, but the alternative is for the least ethical weapons manufacturers end up making all weapons systems as they won't cut their customers off from the supplies they need. So you end up with a bit of a lowest common denominator, tragedy of the commons, moral black hole on the issue.
 
2013-01-16 09:21:43 AM

Gulper Eel: But remember: only a family-values Republican banging his intern is hypocrisy.


Yes, actually, someone who rails about "preserving the sanctity of marriage" while committing adultery is a hypocrite.
 
2013-01-16 09:24:08 AM
Ummm, have you seen who their neighbors are?
 
2013-01-16 09:29:03 AM

xria: lowest common denominator, tragedy of the commons, moral black hole


Checkmate.
 
2013-01-16 09:30:07 AM
i.telegraph.co.uk
"Oh, how original."
 
2013-01-16 09:38:54 AM

Gulper Eel: Arms sales to tyrants? It's not just for Republicans and realists. All the cool Nobel Peace Prize winners do it. But remember: only a family-values Republican banging his intern is hypocrisy. A Democrat perpetuating the arms trade and enabling genocide is an ignorable offense because they meant well and talked nicely and b-b-b-b-but Reagan or something.


I bet that sounded a lot better in your head.
 
2013-01-16 09:43:40 AM

Teufelaffe: Gulper Eel: Arms sales to tyrants? It's not just for Republicans and realists. All the cool Nobel Peace Prize winners do it. But remember: only a family-values Republican banging his intern is hypocrisy. A Democrat perpetuating the arms trade and enabling genocide is an ignorable offense because they meant well and talked nicely and b-b-b-b-but Reagan or something.

I bet that sounded a lot better in your head.


Thank you for stepping up so promptly to prove my point. Now, if you'd care to give us a more complete defense of why these arms sales have continued under the imprimatur of a Nobel Peace Prize winner...
 
2013-01-16 09:50:13 AM

Gulper Eel: Teufelaffe: Gulper Eel: Arms sales to tyrants? It's not just for Republicans and realists. All the cool Nobel Peace Prize winners do it. But remember: only a family-values Republican banging his intern is hypocrisy. A Democrat perpetuating the arms trade and enabling genocide is an ignorable offense because they meant well and talked nicely and b-b-b-b-but Reagan or something.

I bet that sounded a lot better in your head.

Thank you for stepping up so promptly to prove my point. Now, if you'd care to give us a more complete defense of why these arms sales have continued under the imprimatur of a Nobel Peace Prize winner...


You vomited word salad into the comment box and pressed Add Comment. If you intended to have a point in your rambling, you forgot to actually include it.
 
2013-01-16 09:51:49 AM

Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor: Does your country find itself home to the United States Navy's Fifth Fleet? Check all which apply.


That sounded really funny somehow. I'm imagining the King of Bahrain in a wifebeater and sweatpants just walking into his backyard and saying, "Hey! Fifth Fleet! How did you guys get there? Sabika! Sheia! Get the kids! It's the USS Stennis!"

Honestly though, we should be looking for a much less tyrannical ally to base the fleet. Qatar maybe? Kuwait likes us too, but strategically it's location might be less advantageous.
 
2013-01-16 09:55:01 AM

Arkanaut: Honestly though, we should be looking for a much less tyrannical ally to base the fleet. Qatar maybe?


That's a no go. They are now associated with Algore, Destroyer of Worlds.
 
2013-01-16 10:13:54 AM

Teufelaffe: You vomited word salad into the comment box and pressed Add Comment. If you intended to have a point in your rambling, you forgot to actually include it.


You can't read a link?

We sold arms to the Suharto dictatorship as it committed genocide in East Timor - it started under Ford (as guided by Nobel Peace Prize winner Kissinger), accelerated under (Nobel Peace Prize winner and human-rights poseur) Carter, and continued under Reagan, Bush I and Clinton.
 
2013-01-16 10:15:20 AM

thurstonxhowell: Arkanaut: Honestly though, we should be looking for a much less tyrannical ally to base the fleet. Qatar maybe?

That's a no go. They are now associated with Algore, Destroyer of Worlds.


But he has ridden the mighty Moon Worm!
 
2013-01-16 10:25:34 AM
Subby really needs a history lesson. Sometimes your allies are chosen out of necessity.

www.awesomestories.com

www.coldwarhistory.us
 
2013-01-16 10:30:25 AM
Guns don't kill people and bad guys would just get them anyway.
 
2013-01-16 10:32:09 AM

Gulper Eel: Arms sales to tyrants? It's not just for Republicans and realists. All the cool Nobel Peace Prize winners do it. But remember: only a family-values Republican banging his intern is hypocrisy. A Democrat perpetuating the arms trade and enabling genocide is an ignorable offense because they meant well and talked nicely and b-b-b-b-but Reagan or something.


Oh, pfft, how dare you of all people biatch about partisanship? Could you possibly personify hypocrisy more perfectly?

I'm spittin' those p's.
 
2013-01-16 10:35:22 AM

hasty ambush: Subby really needs a history lesson. Sometimes your allies are chosen out of necessity.


And sometimes they're chosen because the third-quarter sales numbers are looking a little shaky.
 
2013-01-16 10:36:31 AM

I_C_Weener: Peter von Nostrand: Awww, subby thinks a Republican will get elected President in '16. That's so cute

Generally, the electorate over the last 70 years has voted for two terms to one party then switch. LBJ and Bush I being the exceptions for longevity and Carter an exception the other way.


While this is true, none of them were up against the modern day GOP
 
2013-01-16 10:55:20 AM

Gulper Eel: Teufelaffe: You vomited word salad into the comment box and pressed Add Comment. If you intended to have a point in your rambling, you forgot to actually include it.

You can't read a link?

We sold arms to the Suharto dictatorship as it committed genocide in East Timor - it started under Ford (as guided by Nobel Peace Prize winner Kissinger), accelerated under (Nobel Peace Prize winner and human-rights poseur) Carter, and continued under Reagan, Bush I and Clinton.



As I posted earlier, the report doesn't show where any "arms" were delivered or accepted (and again, unless I am reading it incorrectly).  Things like ammunition are listed in the report but with blank procurements and zero quantity deliveries.  Furthermore, it doesn't list the purchase dates either.

If anything, the question that should be asked is why *anything* is going to that country - iow, why are we not recognizing their government in a manner that stops certain transactions between our country and theirs.  But that is complex so I guess it is easier to grab a procurement report and throw in some suggestive highlighting to "prove" the case of "librul hypocrisy".
 
2013-01-16 11:03:07 AM
Gallant: Hey, have you heard about our association with Bahrain? I'm not comfortable with our association with them.

Goofus: Why aren't you complaining about Bahrain you stupid librul?!
 
2013-01-16 11:08:01 AM

UberDave: As I posted earlier, the report doesn't show where any "arms" were delivered or accepted


Then I guess the American arms just sort of materialized there and started wiping people out.

It looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, dives like a duck, flies like a duck, it has webbed feet, it has been observed many times before doing distinctly ducklike things...but hey, we don't have any audio of the putative duck saying "you're detthhpicable", so maybe it's not a duck.

Yay for plausible deniability, no matter how implausible it is.
 
2013-01-16 11:10:27 AM

Peter von Nostrand: I_C_Weener: Peter von Nostrand: Awww, subby thinks a Republican will get elected President in '16. That's so cute

Generally, the electorate over the last 70 years has voted for two terms to one party then switch. LBJ and Bush I being the exceptions for longevity and Carter an exception the other way.

While this is true, none of them were up against the modern day GOP


Yup.  I don't see the GOP pulling itself together enough to even field a candidate in 2016.  After 2014, when they lose very, very badly, what remains of the Republican party in our legislative body is going to fracture into all sorts of jagged and insane little splinter groups of disparate ideologies with absolutely no political clout.  Unless you think that anyone is required to do anything but laugh at these loons when they're in the minority, they're going to be soundly ignored.

Toss in the god-clotted social conservatives' and the Palinites' incessant calls for a more-armed, more oppressed and much less intellectual America, and you really have to see that the GOP is in its last throes.  It's killing itself with its own stupidity and ignorance, and it's pretty spectacular.
 
2013-01-16 11:12:15 AM

Vodka Zombie: I don't see the GOP pulling itself together enough to even field a candidate in 2016.


Ladies and gentlemen, the Leon Lett of political strategists.
 
2013-01-16 11:29:43 AM
Ah yes, I remember all the outrage. You couldn't move on Fark for outrage, it made Benghazi-gate look like nothing.
 
2013-01-16 11:35:30 AM

Wyalt Derp: Ah yes, I remember all the outrage. You couldn't move on Fark for outrage, it made Benghazi-gate look like nothing.


This really cracked me up. I happened to actually have to go to Bahrain on business back in early 2009, and when I told people in the US about it they had no awareness of the place whatsoever.
 
2013-01-16 12:07:34 PM

Gulper Eel: UberDave: As I posted earlier, the report doesn't show where any "arms" were delivered or accepted

Then I guess the American arms just sort of materialized there and started wiping people out.


Nice misdirection and exaggeration.  I'm actually "swayable" in my opinion and can be convinced otherwise if you provide something substantial.  There's no proof of anything in this article and at best it is skewed and at worst it is simply made up.  Either way it is there to play on people's emotional investments.
 
2013-01-16 12:11:39 PM

Gulper Eel: Vodka Zombie: I don't see the GOP pulling itself together enough to even field a candidate in 2016.

Ladies and gentlemen, the Leon Lett of political strategists.


It's funny.  Do you think the GOP stands a chance of becoming more unified?

Anyway, I should have said a "remotely electable candidate who could appeal to the multiple ideological minorities in the current GOP."

Seriously.  Did you see the hatred for Romney among Republicans in the last election?  Did you see the people competing against him for that candidacy?  Do you really think they'll have someone appealing enough to unite a tea-party fractured GOP in 2016 when no one currently exists?

I can't help but think that the GOP is anything but a dying and self-destructively inflexible ideology at this point.  They have no sense of direction; and, so far, their only plan to maintain any sense of political relevance going into the midterms is to gerrymander themselves into job security rather than simply change enough to be appealing.

So yeah.  I don't really see them getting their acts together to field a candidate that anyone would like --let alone enough people to win a presidential election.  I think they're done for a while.
 
2013-01-16 12:27:05 PM

I_C_Weener: Peter von Nostrand: Awww, subby thinks a Republican will get elected President in '16. That's so cute

Generally, the electorate over the last 70 years has voted for two terms to one party then switch. LBJ and Bush I being the exceptions for longevity and Carter an exception the other way.


Generally, the opposition party hasn't been populated by a bunch of farking assholish jagoffs like the current GOP presently is.
 
2013-01-16 01:24:23 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com

And America was "shocked"

America leads the world in shocks

Unfortunately, America does not lead the world in deciphering the cause of shock
 
2013-01-16 02:15:28 PM

Kibbler: When liberals criticize the Obama administration, it's "look, they hate America."

When they don't, it's "look, they're hypocrites."

We wouldn't be peddling weapons to tinpot dictators anywhere, ever, if it were up to me.


I mean, yes, pretty much. Why is it always such a shocker when we discover that America supports evil dictators like we have every year since about 1900? It's not nice or good that we do it, but every President and administration has rationalized sending tyrants and dictators arms and money to support US interests, whether it was Eisenhower okaying the coup that unseated the democratically elected Iranian prime minister Mossadegh, or Nixon covertly authorizing the 1972 assassination of the democratically elected Chilean president Allende; or FDR agreeing to the Yalta decision or Kennedy sending "advisers" in to Vietnam...we do it all the time.

Stop being so shocked all the time and try to grow some brains.
 
2013-01-16 02:17:45 PM
That does it! Why oh why didn't I vote for Mittens? Aa

It is always fun seeing Republicans criticizing President Obama from the left.
 
2013-01-16 05:48:51 PM

thurstonxhowell: Gallant: Hey, have you heard about our association with Bahrain? I'm not comfortable with our association with them.

Goofus: Why aren't you complaining about Bahrain you stupid librul?!


I would pay money if the Onion resurrected Goofus and Gallant in a format like this...

/already love their "Angry political cartoon" of the week
 
2013-01-16 10:05:56 PM

Vodka Zombie: It's funny. Do you think the GOP stands a chance of becoming more unified?

Anyway, I should have said a "remotely electable candidate who could appeal to the multiple ideological minorities in the current GOP."

Seriously. Did you see the hatred for Romney among Republicans in the last election? Did you see the people competing against him for that candidacy? Do you really think they'll have someone appealing enough to unite a tea-party fractured GOP in 2016 when no one currently exists?

I can't help but think that the GOP is anything but a dying and self-destructively inflexible ideology at this point. They have no sense of direction; and, so far, their only plan to maintain any sense of political relevance going into the midterms is to gerrymander themselves into job security rather than simply change enough to be appealing.

So yeah. I don't really see them getting their acts together to field a candidate that anyone would like --let alone enough people to win a presidential election. I think they're done for a while.



In 1992 people were saying the Republicans were damn lucky Ross Perot got weird on people late in the campaign, otherwise they were in danger of finishing third. The conventional wisdom was that the GOP was the Stupid Party who thought giving the likes of Pat Buchanan a prime convention speaking spot was a boffo idea, and they couldn't find their asses with both hands (sound familiar?).

Two years later they took the House for the first time in decades.

What I don't see from them right now is anything as easy to communicate and promote as the Contract with America - which was nothing more than ten positions that were popular and yet not pressed by Bill Clinton. There's nothing in it about God or guns or gays or the usual talk-show wharr. But the Contract didn't show up until about six weeks before the election. Even this version of the Stupid Party has time, and what they have to do isn't that hard to figure out - they have to decide they want to win elections, instead of winning a time slot against MSNBC.

So I figure that if Newt farking Gingrich can pull that off, so can Johnny Orange.
 
2013-01-16 10:21:30 PM

Teufelaffe: Gulper Eel: Arms sales to tyrants? It's not just for Republicans and realists. All the cool Nobel Peace Prize winners do it. But remember: only a family-values Republican banging his intern is hypocrisy. A Democrat perpetuating the arms trade and enabling genocide is an ignorable offense because they meant well and talked nicely and b-b-b-b-but Reagan or something.

I bet that sounded a lot better in your head.


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

/new episodes start tomorrow at 10
 
2013-01-16 11:15:07 PM

Gulper Eel: Arms sales to tyrants? It's not just for Republicans and realists. All the cool Nobel Peace Prize winners do it. But remember: only a family-values Republican banging his intern is hypocrisy.


Yes, actually it is only hypocrisy when Republicans do that, because only the Republicans go out on a national stage and claim with a straight face to have a total monopoly on morality and "family values" before they sexually harass pages. Or finish telling their prosperity gospel followers to vote Republican Jesus and support the war on drugs, then (literally) go into the closet and have meth-fueled gay sex with a manhooker.

If you're surprised that people rightly enjoy pointing and laughing at the GOP when they violate the same moral codes that they so sanctimoniously preach to the rest of us, I don't know what to say.

If you think it's unfair that people aren't equally mean to Democrats over sexual impropriety, too bad, I guess you'll just have to go on being ever so persecuted.

A Democrat perpetuating the arms trade and enabling genocide is an ignorable offense because they meant well and talked nicely and b-b-b-b-but Reagan or something.

And by "ignorable" you mean the very subject we're discussing right now?

I also find it amusing how a Democrat selling arms to a repressive government that it (at least on paper) our ally is apparently worse than Reagan committing explicit treason by selling weapons to a sworn enemy, the Iranian government, in order to further break the law by using the resulting money to fund psychopathic dictators and mass murder squads in South America.

As for my stance... how bout this: No lethal weapon or ammunition for same, either manufactured in America or by an American-owned company, may be sold in or transported to any area outside the United States currently involved in armed conflict, threatened by armed conflict, or which a reasonable person would expect to confer arms to such places, except by the United States military exclusively for use by the United States military.

/Write that up and stick in in your code, Justice Dept.
//Not that it'd much matter since the warzones of the world don't use AR15s anyway
 
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