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(USA Today)   Division I men's college basketball on pace to have its lowest scoring season since 1952, as players scoring average could actually fall below their GPA   (usatoday.com) divider line 18
    More: Fail, college basketball, GPA, Harrison Barnes, Marist, UAB, DePaul, half-time  
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367 clicks; posted to Sports » on 16 Jan 2013 at 8:41 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-16 09:08:52 AM  
It's funny because athletes have bad grades.
 
2013-01-16 09:15:43 AM  
basketball sucks and football is better for 3 reasons:

1. late in the game, everyone takes the position that fouling and extending the game increases your chance at winning. the result is nothing but fouling at the end of every game. I'm not sure how often this works, but there is something wrong with the rules of a game if you are rewarded for intentionally fouling. It also slows down the pace of a game at the end.

2. the foul system is too subjective and allows refs to not only change the course of a game but to dictate how the entire game goes. Bad calls happen in every sport but basketball is worse than most. This is why you see point shaving scandals with refs in basketball. It's not because basketball refs are more corrupt, it's because the rule system itself is flawed in a way that gives the officials too much leniency in how they call a game.

3. you hardly ever see a crazy play in basketball. You get 3 point shots, dunks, blocked shots................and that's all the highlights you'll see in a game. In football, you will sometimes see something that you've never seen before. It's constantly evolving, basketball has stagnated as a sport.
 
2013-01-16 09:31:31 AM  
I know a guy who is an assistant coach at a mid-major D-I school. His school used to be known for high scoring games--usually a good win for them would be something like 90-80--but even though they have the same head coach their scores are down from what they used to be. He says it's really been a change in philosophy throughout college basketball: it's considered more difficult to win tournaments with a good offense and bad defense than the other way around (for better or for worse, these days defense is considered "more consistent" than offense), so coaches are emphasizing defense more than they did. He doesn't think it's a question of player skill, more the weight teams are putting on defense.
 
2013-01-16 09:53:45 AM  
It appears the entire NCAA is now playing B1G basketball. That and I think that new fragrant foul rule is affecting the game as well.
 
2013-01-16 10:45:04 AM  
I wasn't aware scoring averages could go below 0
 
2013-01-16 10:51:36 AM  

The Third Man: for better or for worse, these days defense is considered "more consistent" than offense


Sure. Sometimes good shots just don't fall. Of course, sometimes your opponent will keep making bad shots. But that's rare for a whole team to have happen to them. I've seen teams just suddenly not be able to hit anything fairly often, however.

Phelyx: That and I think that new fragrant foul rule


Whoa, there's a rule against smelling bad?

ModernPrimitive01: 1. late in the game, everyone takes the position that fouling and extending the game increases your chance at winning. the result is nothing but fouling at the end of every game. I'm not sure how often this works, but there is something wrong with the rules of a game if you are rewarded for intentionally fouling. It also slows down the pace of a game at the end.


There are late game situations where playing contrary to the regular rules works in all sports, like letting your opponent score a TD in football so that you'll have the chance to get the ball back. That seems like there's something wrong with the game if you're rewarded for intentionally giving up. And even with the slowed-down pace at the end (which doesn't happen nearly as often as you seem to think it does) it still takes less time than every other sport save soccer.

ModernPrimitive01: 2. the foul system is too subjective and allows refs to not only change the course of a game but to dictate how the entire game goes. Bad calls happen in every sport but basketball is worse than most. This is why you see point shaving scandals with refs in basketball. It's not because basketball refs are more corrupt, it's because the rule system itself is flawed in a way that gives the officials too much leniency in how they call a game.


You see scandals in all sports; it's easiest to do in basketball for several reasons: 1) there are fewer players, so each player has more of an impact. If you want to point-shave with one player, it's much easier than in other sports. 2) you're right, there are many more calls than other sports except baseball, where there is a call made on every single pitch. And because there are more possessions and more calls, it does make it more likely that there will be bad calls and that intentional bad calls will blend in a bit more. 3) calls can actually directly result in points, unlike other sports. You can make a terrible call in hockey and the team will get a power play, but that doesn't mean they're going to score. If you make a terrible call on a shooting play in basketball, then that team is statistically far more likely to score than in any other situation. But a basketball team is far more likely to score on a given possession than anyone in any other sport anyway, so the value of it is questionable.

ModernPrimitive01: 3. you hardly ever see a crazy play in basketball. You get 3 point shots, dunks, blocked shots................and that's all the highlights you'll see in a game. In football, you will sometimes see something that you've never seen before. It's constantly evolving, basketball has stagnated as a sport.


This is likely because you don't actually understand basketball and you're focused only on the ball. Or you don't watch basketball very much. Also, I've pretty much seen everything in football as well.

/like basketball and football
 
2013-01-16 10:54:29 AM  
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7537783/81925545#c81925545" target="_blank">The Third Man</a>:</b> <i>I know a guy who is an assistant coach at a mid-major D-I school. His school used to be known for high scoring games--usually a good win for them would be something like 90-80--but even though they have the same head coach their scores are down from what they used to be. He says it's really been a change in philosophy throughout college basketball: it's considered more difficult to win tournaments with a good offense and bad defense than the other way around (for better or for worse, <b>these days defense is considered "more consistent" than offense</b>), so coaches are emphasizing defense more than they did. He doesn't think it's a question of player skill, more the weight teams are putting on defense.</i>

Most of the statistical work at the NBA level confirms this. If you have to choose between the two, an elite defense and average offense wins titles, an average defense and elite offense doesn't (as a general rule). I don't watch enough of the college game but I wonder if this holds at the college level.

Number of possessions is huge too. A NBA game has a minimum of 120 possessions (number of full shot clocks that fit into a game) compared to 68 for college. Pace changes everything, but the longer shot clock combined with better game analysis (statistical knowledge of what is and isn't a good shot) I feel has caused improved discretion in shot selection at the college level, which extend possessions and leads to less shots being taken.
 
2013-01-16 10:56:04 AM  

IAmRight: Phelyx: That and I think that new fragrant foul rule

Whoa, there's a rule against smelling bad?


They're letting the Euro-players use the NCAA as a stepping stone into the NBA now I hear.

/I miss Vlade Divac
 
2013-01-16 11:02:29 AM  

IAmRight: This is likely because you don't actually understand basketball and you're focused only on the ball. Or you don't watch basketball very much. Also, I've pretty much seen everything in football as well.


I'm curious what you're talking about here. Whether it just gets chucked up, or behind the back passed between a defender's legs for another quick pass alley oop dunk, there are only so many ways to get the ball from player to player to basket. Every time I see a "huge dunk" as #1 on the SC top 10, I can't help but think "Oh. So I guess what made it #1 was that it was one superstar dunking on another one." I guess that makes it a "better play" than, say, a backwards wraparound hockey goal, or a busted football play turning into a 65 yd TD. Yeah, not really. Dunks happen dozens of times a game. Bonus points if the defender falls down! So cool!

Whereas this past weekend, I saw something I'd never seen in football before- the play where the ball was "fumbled" across the goal line, but the timing worked out so that a lineman just so happened to be there and snatch the ball out of the air and run it in. I know it wouldn't have counted, but I'd never seen that happen before. Hell, I'd never seen anything like the "fail mary" (inasmuch as it was the last play, and both guys came down with the ball, and it decided the game.) until it happened, either.
 
2013-01-16 11:13:46 AM  

grinding_journalist: IAmRight: This is likely because you don't actually understand basketball and you're focused only on the ball. Or you don't watch basketball very much. Also, I've pretty much seen everything in football as well.

I'm curious what you're talking about here. Whether it just gets chucked up, or behind the back passed between a defender's legs for another quick pass alley oop dunk, there are only so many ways to get the ball from player to player to basket. Every time I see a "huge dunk" as #1 on the SC top 10, I can't help but think "Oh. So I guess what made it #1 was that it was one superstar dunking on another one." I guess that makes it a "better play" than, say, a backwards wraparound hockey goal, or a busted football play turning into a 65 yd TD. Yeah, not really. Dunks happen dozens of times a game. Bonus points if the defender falls down! So cool!

Whereas this past weekend, I saw something I'd never seen in football before- the play where the ball was "fumbled" across the goal line, but the timing worked out so that a lineman just so happened to be there and snatch the ball out of the air and run it in. I know it wouldn't have counted, but I'd never seen that happen before. Hell, I'd never seen anything like the "fail mary" (inasmuch as it was the last play, and both guys came down with the ball, and it decided the game.) until it happened, either.


actually, the ball was already across the goal line when fumbled. otherwise, the lineman would not have been allowed to advance the ball, per rules. with under 2 minutes to play, fumbles cannot be recovered by the fumbling team for any extra gain in yardage.
 
2013-01-16 11:15:25 AM  

grinding_journalist:
Whereas this past weekend, I saw something I'd never seen in football before- the play where the ball was "fumbled" across the goal line, but the timing worked out so that a lineman just so happened to be there and snatch the ball out of the air and run it in. I know it wouldn't have counted, but I'd never seen that happen before. Hell, I'd never seen anything like the "fail mary" (inasmuch as it was the last play, and both guys came down with the ball, and it decided the game.) until it happened, either.


That just sort of fits in with his point, it sounds like you don't watch that much football. Simultaneous catches happen, that's why there's a rule about it. The fumble into endzone play happens all the time.

I mean, I don't care whether a person prefers football to basketball, but you might as well say "there's only so many ways to get a football across a goal line/through the uprights." The point isn't the basketball going through the metal rim, it's how it gets there, I think that's what IAR was getting at. It's the plays they run and the defense the other team plays and the picks they set and the subs they put in against the other coaches' subs that make things interesting, most basketball fans aren't just hoping for a cool-looking dunk. If you're judging basketball by how the plays that some asshole puts on SportsCenter look, you're doing it wrong.

To someone who doesn't like hockey, they would find a wraparound goal boring too. And as someone who has many sports/football-hating friends, even the most exciting busted NFL plays or whatever don't catch their attention if they aren't into it. To each their own.
 
2013-01-16 11:19:59 AM  

grinding_journalist: Hell, I'd never seen anything like the "fail mary" (inasmuch as it was the last play, and both guys came down with the ball, and it decided the game.) until it happened, either.


I suppose if you're going to say that football plays are unique based on the time of the game and location on the field, while basketball plays can't be unique based on that same criteria, then there's really no argument to be made. You're just heavily skewing the argument in favor of your preferred side.

grinding_journalist: I guess that makes it a "better play" than, say, a backwards wraparound hockey goal, or a busted football play turning into a 65 yd TD. Yeah, not really. Dunks happen dozens of times a game. Bonus points if the defender falls down! So cool!


In basketball, basically every play is a goalline play. And you're running 100ish of them every game for each team. In football, you might have 3 or 4 in a game. Of course you're going to see the same plays more often in basketball.

Saying "a dunk is a dunk" is like saying "a goal is a goal" and a backwards wraparound is no more impressive than a simple wrister past a screened goalie.
 
2013-01-16 11:22:52 AM  
Also, those cool-looking dunks are usually the result of either a great play on defense or a great job of rotating and setting screens on offense. They're the equivalent of the untouched run to the end zone. Or a dunk over someone is the equivalent of Bo Jackson running over Bosworth. But you see it a couple times a game.

/there also aren't nearly as many impressive dunks as people make there out to be
 
2013-01-16 12:15:07 PM  

jackiepaper: actually, the ball was already across the goal line when fumbled. otherwise, the lineman would not have been allowed to advance the ball, per rules. with under 2 minutes to play, fumbles cannot be recovered by the fumbling team for any extra gain in yardage.


Yes, I'm aware; I watched the game, I figured I was covered by saying "I know it wouldn't have counted", I suppose I should have added the rules explanation.

IAmRight: In basketball, basically every play is a goalline play. And you're running 100ish of them every game for each team.


Right, that's exactly why I find them less interesting. If you see the same thing 100 times a game, how can it still be compelling? The extrapolation of this is of course soccer, with *maybe* a half dozen scoring plays per game (or rather, plays that could have resulted in a score), where the scoring action is simply too infrequent to appease the ADD American appetite for sporting action. (I played soccer for years, though- so my knowledge of the game makes it more interesting.)

IAmRight: Saying "a dunk is a dunk" is like saying "a goal is a goal" and a backwards wraparound is no more impressive than a simple wrister past a screened goalie.


I don't really like this comparison. The backwards wraparound, like the dunk, are "finesse" scoring plays. I'd be right with you if you'd said "a goal is a goal, inasmuch as a mid-range jumper is just another basket."

You don't need to argue with me; I concede your point- it's a matter of preference, and one side is never going to convince the other of the opposing viewpoint. I just don't find basketball interesting for a number of reasons, and the relative lack of variety in play (at least, to my ignorant eyes) is near the top of the list.

IAmRight: /there also aren't nearly as many impressive dunks as people make there out to be


...because there just aren't many impressive dunks, period?

/sorry, had to.
//generally a fan of your posts
 
2013-01-16 12:43:08 PM  

grinding_journalist: The backwards wraparound, like the dunk, are "finesse" scoring plays.


The mid-range jumper is the finesse shot in the NBA. The dunk that's impressive is the equivalent of running over a defender or two then top-shelfing the goal. Many of the top-10 dunks you're probably seeing now are on the top-10 by virtue of the fact that there's no baseball, no football most of the week, no hockey...I mean, what else are they going to choose? The subtle beauty of an off-ball pick doesn't translate well to television, much as they're not going to show a potentially important flick of the wrist to help a penalty-killing team clear the zone by getting it over the defenseman's stick at the line.

In both cases, most of the movement in successful plays is done off the ball/puck, freeing someone to take an open shot in an advantageous position. In both sports, holding the puck too long/dribbling a lot is considered a bad thing and more likely to result in poor shots that get blocked more often than others.

Ultimately, basketball COULD produce crazier plays, but if a guy were to go for a backwards shot or a bounce shot or any of the various trick shots, he'd be benched for taking a low-percentage shot and basically wasting a possession in a sport where you're supposed to be scoring on your possessions.

Saying that playing properly is a negative aspect of the sport seems pretty silly. If you want to see trick shots and crazy plays, watch the Harlem Globetrotters.
 
2013-01-16 01:20:31 PM  

IAmRight: If you want to see trick shots and crazy plays, watch JaVale McGee the Harlem Globetrotters.


FTFY

As to the actual topic, I blame the one and done rule for decreased scoring.
 
2013-01-16 01:29:19 PM  
Kids these days need to practice shooting from the line more. Big schools just recruit big men since you "can't coach height." Those lumbering athletes have skated by on physicality and less on shooting accuracy their entire lives. Talented though they may be, they need to put in more time on fundamentals. That's the only way scoring will improve.
 
2013-01-16 05:12:05 PM  
I blame claiming that a 0.6 drop in points per game news worthy at fault.


0.6 points is nothing. Lets put some reference into this:
-0.6 points is 0.88% of the points scored in a game.
To compare this to other sports.
-Soccer this is a change of 0 points.
-Hockey this is a change of 0 points.
-Football this is a change of .25 points per game.

This is not a story. I thought I was going to read an article about teams averaging +5 points less per game, instead it is 0.6 points. GTFO and go find an actual news story, fark our media.

Also comments regarding football vs basketball. I think we have become desensitized to how hard basketball plays are. If you do not watch a lot of basketball and all you see are highlights of players dunking it you are going to think that it is really easy to do odds are more people here on fark can throw a +40 yard hail mary than could dunk while just having someone that is 6'10" or taller stand under the net. People can complain about defense in basketball the reality is if you stick someone that is 6'10" or taller between you and the basket even if that guy does not move. There is a reason why given the number points scored in pro basketball games, a much smaller number of them come from dunks. If you have 200 points in a game (100 for each side), maybe 10-20% of those will be off of dunks. To put that in perspective that will be a comparable % of points scored on plays of +20 yards in football (excluding field goals).


Desensitization is a biatch. So is poor reporting (I am looking at...well it seems just about everyone that calls themselves a reporter now.)
 
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