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(Huffington Post)   Upon further review, we have determined that Syria did use chemical weapons on its own people. Please set the war clock to "Soon"   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 142
    More: Scary, State Department, chemical weapons, Homs, Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, Syrian Army, Golan Heights, children playing, girl play  
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13078 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jan 2013 at 8:42 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-15 06:00:35 PM
Oh hell.
 
2013-01-15 06:01:34 PM
OH hell is right make me some tea.  I'm not signing up to any site just to read a freaking article.
 
2013-01-15 06:01:42 PM
LOGIN WITH YOUR FOREIGNPOLICY.COM ACCOUNTNo...
 
2013-01-15 06:07:19 PM
Has anyone informed the State Department that their "secret" cables seem to be pretty consistently not?

/more leaks than the mens room at a bar giving away free beer
 
2013-01-15 06:08:49 PM
The Article:
A secret State Department cable has concluded that the Syrian military likely used chemical weapons against its own people in a deadly attack last month, The Cable has learned.

United States diplomats in Turkey conducted a previously undisclosed, intensive investigation into claims that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad used chemical weapons, and made what an Obama administration official who reviewed the cable called a "compelling case" that Assad's military forces had used a deadly form of poison gas.

The cable, signed by the U.S. consul general in Istanbul, Scott Frederic Kilner, and sent to State Department headquarters in Washington last week, outlined the results of the consulate's investigation into reports from inside Syria that chemical weapons had been used in the city of Homs on Dec. 23.

The consul general's report followed a series of interviews with activists, doctors, and defectors, in what the administration official said was one of the most comprehensive efforts the U.S. government has made to investigate claims by internal Syrian sources. The investigation included a meeting between the consulate staff and Mustafa al-Sheikh, a high-level defector who once was a major general in Assad's army and key official in the Syrian military's WMD program.

An Obama administration official who reviewed the document, which was classified at the "secret" level, detailed its contents to The Cable. "We can't definitely say 100 percent, but Syrian contacts made a compelling case that Agent 15 was used in Homs on Dec. 23," the official said.

The use of chemical weapons by the Assad regime would cross the "red line" President Barack Obama first established in an Aug. 20 statement. "We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized. That would change my calculus. That would change my equation," Obama said.

To date, the administration has not initiated any major policy changes in response to the classified cable, but a Deputies Committee meeting of top administration officials is scheduled for this week.

The report confirms the worst fears of officials who are frustrated by the current policy, which is to avoid any direct military assistance to the Syrian rebels and limit U.S. aid to sporadic deliveries of humanitarian and communications equipment.

Many believe that Assad is testing U.S. red lines.

"This reflects the concerns of many in the U.S. government that the regime is pursuing a policy of escalation to see what they can get away with as the regime is getting more desperate," the administration official said.

The consulate's investigation was facilitated by BASMA, an NGO the State Department has hired as one of its implementing partners inside Syria. BASMA connected consular officials with witnesses to the incident and other first-hand information.

The official warned that if the U.S. government does not react strongly to the use of chemical weapons in Homs, Assad may be emboldened to escalate his use of such weapons of mass destruction.

"It's incidents like this that lead to a mass-casualty event," the official said.

Activist and doctors on the ground in Homs have been circulating evidence of the Dec. 23 incident over the past three weeks in an attempt to convince the international community of its veracity. An Arabic-language report circulated by the rebels' Homs medical committee detailed the symptoms of several of the victims who were brought to a makeshift field hospital inside the city and claims that the victims suffered severe effects of inhaling poisonous gas.

Activists have also been circulating videos of the victims on YouTube and Facebook. In one of the videos, victims can be seen struggling for breath and choking on their own vomit. (More videos, which are graphic, can be found here, here, here, here, here and here.)

Experts say the symptoms match the effects of Agent 15, known also by its NATO code BZ, which is a CX-level incapacitating agent that is controlled under schedule 2 of the Chemical Weapons Convention, to which Syria is a party.

"The symptoms of an incapacitating agent are temporary. If someone is exposed to BZ, they are likely to be confused, perhaps to hallucinate," said Amy Smithson, a senior fellow with the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies. "While it is not good news that a chemical agent of any kind may have been used in the Syrian conflict, this Agent 15 is certainly on the less harmful end of the spectrum of chemical warfare agents believed to be in the Syrian arsenal."

The Cable spoke with two doctors who were on the scene in Homs on Dec. 23 and treated the victims. Both doctors said that the chemical weapon used in the attack may not have been Agent 15, but they are sure it was a chemical weapon, not a form of tear gas. The doctors attributed five deaths and approximately 100 instances of severe respiratory, nervous system, and gastrointestinal ailments to the poison gas.

"It was a chemical weapon, we are sure of that, because tear gas can't cause the death of five people," said Dr. Nashwan Abu Abdo, a neurologist who spoke with The Cable from an undisclosed location inside of Homs.

Abdo said the chemical agent was delivered by a tank shell and that the range of symptoms varied based on the victim's proximity to the poison. The lightly affected people exhibited gastrointestinal symptoms, nausea, vomiting, and abdominal pain, he said. Victims who received a higher concentration of the poison, in addition to the gastrointestinal symptoms, showed respiratory symptoms as well.

"The main symptom of the respiratory ailments was bronchial secretions. This particular symptom was the cause of the death of all of the people," he said. "All of them died choking on their own secretions."

The doctors said their conclusion that the poison was a chemical agent and not tear gas was based on three factors: the suddenness of the deaths of those who were directly exposed, the large number of people affected, and the fact that many victims returned with recurring symptoms more than 12 hours after they had been treated, meaning that the poison had settled either in their nervous systems or fat tissue.

"They all had miosis -- pinpoint pupils. They also had generalized muscle pain. There were also bad symptoms as far as their central nervous system. There were generalized seizures and some patients had partial seizures. This actually is proof that the poison was able to pass the blood-brain barrier," Abdo said. "In addition, there was acute mental confusion presented by hallucinations, delusions, personality changes, and behavioral changes."

The doctors on the scene said they were not able to pinpoint the poison because they lacked the advanced laboratory equipment needed. They took blood, hair, saliva, and urine samples, but those samples are no longer viable for testing because too much time has passed, they said.

"We took many samples, we kept them, but we cannot get them anywhere because we are in the besieged Homs area," he said. "We are not 100 percent sure what poison was used, but we can say with firm statement that it was not tear gas, that's for sure."

The State Department, in response to inquiries from The Cable, declined to comment on the secret cable from Istanbul or say whether or not chemical weapons were used in the Homs attack, but said that the administration believes Assad's chemical weapons are secure.

"I'm not going to comment on the alleged content of a classified cable," State Department Spokesman Patrick Ventrell told The Cable. "As you know, the United States closely monitors Syria's proliferation-sensitive materials and facilities, and we believe Syria's chemical weapons stockpile remains secured by the Syrian government. We have been clear that if Assad's regime makes the tragic mistake of using chemical weapons or failing to secure them, it will be held accountable."

Shifting red lines

The White House's threats to react to Assad's WMD activity have softened over time. In Obama's Aug. 20 statement, he indicated that "a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around" would trigger U.S. action.

Obama then shifted his warning to Assad about red lines in December, after intelligence reports stated that the Syrian regime had moved some precursor chemicals out of storage and mixed them, making them easier to deploy. Now, Obama's red line is that the United States will react if Syria uses these weapons.

"The use of chemical weapons is and would be totally unacceptable," Obama said Dec. 3, directing his comments at Assad. "If you make the tragic mistake of using these weapons, there will be consequences and you will be held accountable." That same day, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton added: "we are certainly planning to take action if that eventuality were to occur."

Outside analysts worry that the administration's red line may have shifted again.

"Given the fact you have that in a cable, this indicates that the Obama administration may not simply jump into the conflict because chemical agents are used," said Andrew Tabler, senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. "Assad has a much better idea now of what he can do and get away with."

"This shows that actually the red line on chemical weapons is not clear and that the regime may be able to use some chemical agents, and the response might not be immediate," he said.

On Jan. 11, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey said that the U.S. government and the international community doesn't have the capability to prevent Assad from using chemical weapons if he chooses to do so.

"The act of preventing the use of chemical weapons would be almost unachievable... because you would have to have such clarity of intelligence, you know, persistent surveillance, you'd have to actually see it before it happened, and that's -- that's unlikely, to be sure," Dempsey said. "I think that Syria must understand by now that the use of chemical weapons is unacceptable. And to that extent, it provides a deterrent value. But preventing it, if they decide to use it, I think we would be reacting."

Abdo, the Syrian neurologist, said that the doctors treating civilians inside Homs have run out of even the basic medicines they have been using to bring a level of comfort to the victims, such as the drug atropine.

"We hope this information will reach the people in the American government so maybe they will help us," he said. "If the regime does this one more time, we don't have the antidote in our hands anymore and we can't treat it. It's very urgent."
 
2013-01-15 06:09:58 PM
FTFA:""It was a chemical weapon, we are sure of that, because tear gas can't cause the death of five people," said Dr. Nashwan Abu Abdo"

Damn it, stop defending Janet Reno!!
 
2013-01-15 06:13:27 PM
So using chemical weapons, the Syrian government killed fewer people than were killed in Newtown.

And for some, this is evidence we need to go to war.

Makes total sense.
 
2013-01-15 06:31:34 PM

Aarontology: So using chemical weapons, the Syrian government killed fewer people than were killed in Newtown.

And for some, this is evidence we need to go to war.

Makes total sense.


Hell, yesterday quite a few people were adamant that we not do transport mission to help the French with Mali in maintaining a legitimate government against Al Queda.  If that's anathema to the formerly pro-war crowd, what odds are there we go into Syria?
 
2013-01-15 06:39:37 PM

GAT_00: Hell, yesterday quite a few people were adamant that we not do transport mission to help the French with Mali in maintaining a legitimate government against Al Queda. If that's anathema to the formerly pro-war crowd, what odds are there we go into Syria?


Depends on if it lingers until another GOP president is elected so they can go back to supported global war.
 
2013-01-15 06:46:56 PM

Aarontology: GAT_00: Hell, yesterday quite a few people were adamant that we not do transport mission to help the French with Mali in maintaining a legitimate government against Al Queda. If that's anathema to the formerly pro-war crowd, what odds are there we go into Syria?

Depends on if it lingers until another GOP president is elected so they can go back to supported global war.


Ya, because Obama hasn't expanded the war at all.  Or did you miss the fact that Special Operations forces have grown both in number and budget, and are deployed in 75 countries, compared with about 60 at the beginning of 2009
 
2013-01-15 06:48:10 PM

Aarontology: So using chemical weapons, the Syrian government killed fewer people than were killed in Newtown.

And for some, this is evidence we need to go to war.

Makes total sense.


Apparently the Newtown murders were faked by our government. At least according to some of the more unhinged folks on Facebook.
 
2013-01-15 07:38:09 PM

zedster: FTFA:""It was a chemical weapon, we are sure of that, because tear gas can't cause the death of five people," said Dr. Nashwan Abu Abdo"

Damn it, stop defending Janet Reno!!


Protesters in Thailand would like a word with you.  Several have been killed or severely injured by Chinese made tear gas canisters that have exploded on impact.
 
2013-01-15 07:40:09 PM
Okay, NOW were ready to kick some syrias ass!

Just waiting on the green-light from Netanyahu.
 
2013-01-15 07:58:32 PM

Krymson Tyde: Apparently the Newtown murders were faked by our government. At least according to some of the more unhinged folks on Facebook.


Yeah, I have friends in the NRA too.
 
2013-01-15 08:49:27 PM
Another land war in Asia? INCONCIEVABLE
 
2013-01-15 08:51:04 PM

netizencain: Aarontology: GAT_00: Hell, yesterday quite a few people were adamant that we not do transport mission to help the French with Mali in maintaining a legitimate government against Al Queda. If that's anathema to the formerly pro-war crowd, what odds are there we go into Syria?

Depends on if it lingers until another GOP president is elected so they can go back to supported global war.

Ya, because Obama hasn't expanded the war at all.  Or did you miss the fact that Special Operations forces have grown both in number and budget, and are deployed in 75 countries, compared with about 60 at the beginning of 2009


Just curious, but is there an actual list of countries or forces or anything? Something that shows that, "we sent Steve to go train some folks on counter-terrorism," doesn't count as "Special Operations forces deployed in that country?"
 
2013-01-15 08:51:23 PM

Krymson Tyde: Apparently the Newtown murders were faked by our government. At least according to some of the more unhinged folks on Facebook


You mean people who need a good cockpunch.

Aarontology: So using chemical weapons, the Syrian government killed fewer people than were killed in Newtown.

And for some, this is evidence we need to go to war.

Makes total sense.


No, the issue is that Syria is using a weapon that the entire world views as anathema and unthinkable to use on their worst enemies on their own citizens, even people who have done nothing to support or fight against the rebel faction.
 
2013-01-15 08:52:42 PM
quicklol.com
 
2013-01-15 08:52:50 PM

netizencain: Ya, because Obama hasn't expanded the war at all.  Or did you miss the fact that Special Operations forces have grown both in number and budget, and are deployed in 75 countries, compared with about 60 at the beginning of 2009


You do realize the mission of the United States Special Operations Command is not just kicking ass, but teaching others to kick ass too, right?
 
2013-01-15 08:53:04 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-Quinuclidinyl_benzilate

not exactly Sarin or Tabun.... or god help them VX etc
 
2013-01-15 08:54:26 PM
belsen was a gas
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-01-15 08:56:09 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com

"The language of the Great Convention is clear enough: Use of atomics chemical burn yer-ass agents against humans shall be cause for planetary obliteration of your stinking shiatty country."
 
2013-01-15 08:56:28 PM
Time to call up all those 2nd Amendmenters for their Militia service in Syria.

Am I doing it right?
 
2013-01-15 08:58:12 PM

d23: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 243x320]

"The language of the Great Convention is clear enough: Use of atomics chemical burn yer-ass agents against humans shall be cause for planetary obliteration of your stinking shiatty country."


We have to keep a secret stockpile in case we need to go renegade though.

Or if we find a hostile "other" intelligence.
 
2013-01-15 08:58:27 PM
To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?
 
2013-01-15 09:02:08 PM

Solid State Vittles: To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?


The article says what it is: Agent 15, which is or is related to 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate
 
2013-01-15 09:02:57 PM

Solid State Vittles: To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?


That's crazy talk, why, someone capable of doing that would probably want to start putting flouride in the drinking supply!
 
2013-01-15 09:03:45 PM

Omahawg: belsen was a gas



Actually, no.

With 35,000 deaths from typhus, a bit of gas might have helped, even.
 
2013-01-15 09:04:23 PM
The United Nations is a joke. How many meetings, and meetings to discuss draft documents, and double secret probations were there? It was freaken ridiculous. I gave up paying attention when Kofi Annan sacked himself in despair.

And haven't Left Wing Howler Monkeys been awfully quiet. Come on guys. Fire up! To paraphrase a couple of their own glib arguments from the past:

The Left don't care what happens in Syria because there isn't any oil there sorry, I mean because Syria isn't a good looking white female sorry, because there aren't any white Christians Republicans to screech at.

i49.tinypic.com
 
2013-01-15 09:04:34 PM
I refuse to believe this until the New York/Tel Aviv Times runs a front page Judith Miller story convincing me of it.
 
2013-01-15 09:04:56 PM

RealAmericanHero: Solid State Vittles: To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?

The article says what it is: Agent 15, which is or is related to 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate


Will that get me high?
 
2013-01-15 09:06:39 PM

scubamage: Solid State Vittles: To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?

That's crazy talk, why, someone capable of doing that would probably want to start putting flouride in the drinking supply!


BLAH!

Fluoride is harmless.

/Unless it is used in combination with chlorine, of course
 
2013-01-15 09:07:13 PM
Hm.

Is it too soon to be making a shopping list? What does Syria have that we want? They still have enough oil to make it worth our time to mess with them?
 
2013-01-15 09:09:29 PM

Amos Quito: scubamage: Solid State Vittles: To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?

That's crazy talk, why, someone capable of doing that would probably want to start putting flouride in the drinking supply!

BLAH!

Fluoride is harmless.

/Unless it is used in combination with chlorine, of course


www.american-buddha.com
 
2013-01-15 09:09:46 PM
So? Did we think they were using Nerf artillery previously?
 
2013-01-15 09:11:50 PM

Big Ramifications: And haven't Left Wing Howler Monkeys been awfully quiet. Come on guys. Fire up! To paraphrase a couple of their own glib arguments from the past:

The Left don't care what happens in Syria because there isn't any oil there sorry, I mean because Syria isn't a good looking white female sorry, because there aren't any white Christians Republicans to screech at.


That was an exceedingly stupid statement. Do you have to wear a towl around your neck to catch the drool?
 
2013-01-15 09:16:25 PM

BronyMedic: Big Ramifications: And haven't Left Wing Howler Monkeys been awfully quiet. Come on guys. Fire up! To paraphrase a couple of their own glib arguments from the past:

The Left don't care what happens in Syria because there isn't any oil there sorry, I mean because Syria isn't a good looking white female sorry, because there aren't any white Christians Republicans to screech at.

That was an exceedingly stupid statement. Do you have to wear a towl around your neck to catch the drool?


www4.parinc.com

It works! It actually works! Marty!
 
2013-01-15 09:16:43 PM
But chemical weapons are illegal and we all know that banning the things makes the use of them impossibru... doesn't it?
 
2013-01-15 09:17:33 PM

Big Ramifications: The United Nations is a joke. How many meetings, and meetings to discuss draft documents, and double secret probations were there? It was freaken ridiculous. I gave up paying attention when Kofi Annan sacked himself in despair.

And haven't Left Wing Howler Monkeys been awfully quiet. Come on guys. Fire up! To paraphrase a couple of their own glib arguments from the past:

The Left don't care what happens in Syria because there isn't any oil there sorry, I mean because Syria isn't a good looking white female sorry, because there aren't any white Christians Republicans to screech at.

[i49.tinypic.com image 319x212]


There's plenty on Fox News.
 
2013-01-15 09:18:03 PM

Amos Quito: scubamage: Solid State Vittles: To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?

That's crazy talk, why, someone capable of doing that would probably want to start putting flouride in the drinking supply!

BLAH!

Fluoride is harmless.

/Unless it is used in combination with chlorine, of course


Or hydrogen... Then it can etch glass. Or dissolve bodies.
community.us.playstation.com
 
2013-01-15 09:18:05 PM
Looks like they crossed the red line.

They apparently don't fear getting a sharply worded letter from the administration along with a snippy comment during a news conference.

They are fearless.
 
2013-01-15 09:22:18 PM
Yay. Syria. Another country just like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc, that I would just let out a big "meh" if everyone died. Can't we just focus on making America better now? We kinda have some problems of our own to focus on, and even with some of these countries with "nuclear" weapons wouldn't last 30 minutes if they actually launched anything at us...
 
2013-01-15 09:24:04 PM

mrlewish: Time to call up all those 2nd Amendmenters for their Militia service in Syria.

Am I doing it right?


Yup. As a resident FARK gun nut I agree that if I want to keep my guns I should be prepared to use them in defense of our country if called upon.
 
2013-01-15 09:24:34 PM
From the picture in TFA:

"Syria's Snowball's Chance in Hell Truce."


/FTFT
 
2013-01-15 09:28:12 PM

Solid State Vittles: RealAmericanHero: Solid State Vittles: To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?

The article says what it is: Agent 15, which is or is related to 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate

Will that get me high?


FTFA: "The symptoms of an incapacitating agent are temporary. If someone is exposed to BZ, they are likely to be confused, perhaps to hallucinate," said Amy Smithson, a senior fellow with the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies. "While it is not good news that a chemical agent of any kind may have been used in the Syrian conflict, this Agent 15 is certainly on the less harmful end of the spectrum of chemical warfare agents believed to be in the Syrian arsenal."

possibly?
 
2013-01-15 09:30:08 PM

The Angry Hand of God: Yay. Syria. Another country just like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc, that I would just let out a big "meh" if everyone died. Can't we just focus on making America better now? We kinda have some problems of our own to focus on, and even with some of these countries with "nuclear" weapons wouldn't last 30 minutes if they actually launched anything at us...


You sound like Old testament God
 
2013-01-15 09:30:22 PM

ShawnDoc: zedster: FTFA:""It was a chemical weapon, we are sure of that, because tear gas can't cause the death of five people," said Dr. Nashwan Abu Abdo"

Damn it, stop defending Janet Reno!!

Protesters in Thailand would like a word with you.  Several have been killed or severely injured by Chinese made tear gas canisters that have exploded on impact.


It wasn't the tear gas, it was the China-quality canisters. Those canisters were made in the same country as exploding manhole covers, exploding toilets and exploding shark tanks.
 
2013-01-15 09:32:32 PM

frenchcheesemuseum: OH hell is right make me some tea.


Make your own damn tea. This is no time for drinking tea anyway.
 
2013-01-15 09:33:17 PM
Can we just skip this war this time?
 
2013-01-15 09:34:13 PM

Igor Jakovsky: The Angry Hand of God: Yay. Syria. Another country just like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc, that I would just let out a big "meh" if everyone died. Can't we just focus on making America better now? We kinda have some problems of our own to focus on, and even with some of these countries with "nuclear" weapons wouldn't last 30 minutes if they actually launched anything at us...

You sound like Old testament God


Igor Jakovsky: The Angry Hand of God: Yay. Syria. Another country just like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc, that I would just let out a big "meh" if everyone died. Can't we just focus on making America better now? We kinda have some problems of our own to focus on, and even with some of these countries with "nuclear" weapons wouldn't last 30 minutes if they actually launched anything at us...

You sound like Old testament God


"One day Samuel said to Saul, "It was the Lord who told me to anoint you as king of his people, Israel. Now listen to this message from the Lord! 2 This is what the Lord of Heaven's Armies has declared: I have decided to settle accounts with the nation of Amalek for opposing Israel when they came from Egypt. 3 Now go and completely destroy[a] the entire Amalekite nation-men, women, children, babies, cattle, sheep, goats, camels, and donkeys.""

God is love.
 
2013-01-15 09:34:57 PM

Doktor_Zhivago: Amos Quito: scubamage: Solid State Vittles: To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?

That's crazy talk, why, someone capable of doing that would probably want to start putting flouride in the drinking supply!

BLAH!

Fluoride is harmless.

/Unless it is used in combination with chlorine, of course

Or hydrogen... Then it can etch glass. Or dissolve bodies.


Breaking Bad is the best show I've ever seen.

Except maybe the wire.

I never want to stop talking about breaking bad or the wire.
 
2013-01-15 09:36:56 PM
Ahh yes, The Germans are killing babies. The Iraqis are tossing babies out of incubators. When will americans start looking at these manipulative stories with a critical eye? Never? Probably.

The American people drawn into another war, another regime change. The state department wouldn't lie to get what they want. No. Never. When has government ever lied to get what those in it desire?

New century. Same manipulation.

We'll find out it's bullshiat in a few years. Just like has happened many times before.
 
2013-01-15 09:36:58 PM
Maddow has a good piece about it tonight.
 
2013-01-15 09:38:32 PM

Doktor_Zhivago: Igor Jakovsky: The Angry Hand of God: Yay. Syria. Another country just like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc, that I would just let out a big "meh" if everyone died. Can't we just focus on making America better now? We kinda have some problems of our own to focus on, and even with some of these countries with "nuclear" weapons wouldn't last 30 minutes if they actually launched anything at us...

You sound like Old testament God

Igor Jakovsky: The Angry Hand of God: Yay. Syria. Another country just like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc, that I would just let out a big "meh" if everyone died. Can't we just focus on making America better now? We kinda have some problems of our own to focus on, and even with some of these countries with "nuclear" weapons wouldn't last 30 minutes if they actually launched anything at us...

You sound like Old testament God

"One day Samuel said to Saul, "It was the Lord who told me to anoint you as king of his people, Israel. Now listen to this message from the Lord! 2 This is what the Lord of Heaven's Armies has declared: I have decided to settle accounts with the nation of Amalek for opposing Israel when they came from Egypt. 3 Now go and completely destroy[a] the entire Amalekite nation-men, women, children, babies, cattle, sheep, goats, camels, and donkeys.""

God is love.


Hosea 13:16 - "16 The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."

fc06.deviantart.net
 
2013-01-15 09:39:36 PM

Agent 15?

I thought it said Agent 51 at first...and this popped in my head.



images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-01-15 09:40:34 PM

leadmetal: Ahh yes, The Germans are killing babies. The Iraqis are tossing babies out of incubators. When will americans start looking at these manipulative stories with a critical eye? Never? Probably.

The American people drawn into another war, another regime change. The state department wouldn't lie to get what they want. No. Never. When has government ever lied to get what those in it desire?

New century. Same manipulation.

We'll find out it's bullshiat in a few years. Just like has happened many times before.


Yeah, except for that whole Holocaust thing.
 
2013-01-15 09:45:12 PM
THIS was the thread from that day.
 
2013-01-15 09:45:46 PM

halfof33: leadmetal: Ahh yes, The Germans are killing babies. The Iraqis are tossing babies out of incubators. When will americans start looking at these manipulative stories with a critical eye? Never? Probably.

The American people drawn into another war, another regime change. The state department wouldn't lie to get what they want. No. Never. When has government ever lied to get what those in it desire?

New century. Same manipulation.

We'll find out it's bullshiat in a few years. Just like has happened many times before.

Yeah, except for that whole Holocaust thing.


That Holocaust thing was not used to get the american people to go to war or support a war or support a revolution or regime change. By the time the american people knew about it, the war was essentially over. Of course one can never let logic get in the way of discrediting those who point out the manipulations.

Remember the Maine!
 
2013-01-15 09:46:08 PM

King Something: ShawnDoc: zedster: FTFA:""It was a chemical weapon, we are sure of that, because tear gas can't cause the death of five people," said Dr. Nashwan Abu Abdo"

Damn it, stop defending Janet Reno!!

Protesters in Thailand would like a word with you.  Several have been killed or severely injured by Chinese made tear gas canisters that have exploded on impact.

It wasn't the tear gas, it was the China-quality canisters. Those canisters were made in the same country as exploding manhole covers, exploding toilets and exploding shark tanks.


They have exploding man holes in NYC.

Imagine going to the Shark Encounter at Seaworld. You gotta take a crap because of the theme park food you ate and while you're sitting there, the shark tank and toilet explode.. It would not be a good day for this American.
 
2013-01-15 09:53:14 PM
"We can't definitely say 100 percent, but Syrian contacts made a compelling case that Agent 15 was used in Homs on Dec. 23," the official said.

While I am no big fan of Syria OR chemical weapons, can we get a 100% confirmation by US agents making a definite case, before we go to war on this? This seems a little less than solid evidence for those WMDs that are located around Tikrit or to the north, south, east or west somewhat.
 
2013-01-15 09:53:52 PM
First there were reports of cluster bombs. Now chemical weapons.

Does anyone really give a sh*t?

Let the Syrians kill each other. The last thing we can afford is another pointless war. A few more strongly worded letter or two should do the trick.
 
2013-01-15 09:54:13 PM

leadmetal: halfof33: leadmetal: Ahh yes, The Germans are killing babies. The Iraqis are tossing babies out of incubators. When will americans start looking at these manipulative stories with a critical eye? Never? Probably.

The American people drawn into another war, another regime change. The state department wouldn't lie to get what they want. No. Never. When has government ever lied to get what those in it desire?

New century. Same manipulation.

We'll find out it's bullshiat in a few years. Just like has happened many times before.

Yeah, except for that whole Holocaust thing.

That Holocaust thing was not used to get the american people to go to war or support a war or support a revolution or regime change. By the time the american people knew about it, the war was essentially over. Of course one can never let logic get in the way of discrediting those who point out the manipulations.

Remember the Maine!


You're right about the holocaust. I wonder how much this country cared about the Jews based on the way we treated the refugees that Hitler sent here on ships. Half would have been better served by talking about Pearl harbor at which point you would say Roosevelt let it happen so we could join the war.

/I dont believe that BTW, but you were discussing conspiracies.
 
2013-01-15 09:58:27 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Make your own damn tea. This is no time for drinking tea anyway.


Truth be told, the fringe right has put me off tea for good, i think.  Yeesh.
 
2013-01-15 10:06:05 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Has anyone informed the State Department that their "secret" cables seem to be pretty consistently not?

/more leaks than the mens room at a bar giving away free beer


How else do you get people to believe you're doing the right thing? They leak stuff like this on purpose to win hearts and minds into supporting illegal wars.
 
2013-01-15 10:13:19 PM
I don't understand what everyone is so concerned about. The whole "used WMDs on their own people" think is only used as a rationalization after the stated reason for invading a country is proven to be a blatant lie.
 
2013-01-15 10:15:24 PM

leadmetal: That Holocaust thing was not used to get the american people to go to war or support a war or support a revolution or regime change. By the time the american people knew about it, the war was essentially over. Of course one can never let logic get in the way of discrediting those who point out the manipulations.

Remember the Maine!


But I thought you said that the Germans weren't killing "babies." Just about 10 million other people, but no babies.

Or perhaps this was one of those crazy times the stupid american people got it right by getting it wrong? Crummy Americans and their stupid dumb luck! Shakes fist.

lolz, The USA didn't go to war in WWII because "germans" were killing "babies." But you are definitely backing winners, Hitler, Saddam and now Bashar, truly history's most misunderstood geniuses.
 
2013-01-15 10:17:34 PM

DoctorCal: I don't understand what everyone is so concerned about. The whole "used WMDs on their own people" think is only used as a rationalization after the stated reason for invading a country is proven to be a blatant lie.


Huh, takes notes. Halabja poison gas attack, did not happen?

Huh.

Hmmm.

I learning stuff from you neo-holocaust deniers! I truly am!
 
2013-01-15 10:22:40 PM

halfof33: leadmetal: That Holocaust thing was not used to get the american people to go to war or support a war or support a revolution or regime change. By the time the american people knew about it, the war was essentially over. Of course one can never let logic get in the way of discrediting those who point out the manipulations.

Remember the Maine!

But I thought you said that the Germans weren't killing "babies." Just about 10 million other people, but no babies.

Or perhaps this was one of those crazy times the stupid american people got it right by getting it wrong? Crummy Americans and their stupid dumb luck! Shakes fist.

lolz, The USA didn't go to war in WWII because "germans" were killing "babies." But you are definitely backing winners, Hitler, Saddam and now Bashar, truly history's most misunderstood geniuses.


Nobody is denying the holocaust you farking retard, perhaps you're too young to remember the chain of events that occurred in late 2002.
 
2013-01-15 10:25:41 PM

duffblue: halfof33: leadmetal: That Holocaust thing was not used to get the american people to go to war or support a war or support a revolution or regime change. By the time the american people knew about it, the war was essentially over. Of course one can never let logic get in the way of discrediting those who point out the manipulations.

Remember the Maine!

But I thought you said that the Germans weren't killing "babies." Just about 10 million other people, but no babies.

Or perhaps this was one of those crazy times the stupid american people got it right by getting it wrong? Crummy Americans and their stupid dumb luck! Shakes fist.

lolz, The USA didn't go to war in WWII because "germans" were killing "babies." But you are definitely backing winners, Hitler, Saddam and now Bashar, truly history's most misunderstood geniuses.

Nobody is denying the holocaust you farking retard, perhaps you're too young to remember the chain of events that occurred in late 2002.


Thanks champ, don't remember the Germans killing babies then. Your pal is a big boy, I'd like to hear him speak for himself about German baby killers. Thanks white knight!
 
2013-01-15 10:27:21 PM

halfof33: Huh, takes notes. Halabja poison gas attack, did not happen?


Citation needed
 
2013-01-15 10:28:55 PM
Sounds just like the "secret intell" that was "leaked" during the run-up to invading Iraq.

Yellow-cake anyone?
 
2013-01-15 10:31:12 PM
www.themasterofbation.com
Dammit.
 
2013-01-15 10:36:15 PM

DoctorCal: [www.themasterofbation.com image 514x283]
Dammit.


Lol wut.
 
2013-01-15 10:38:18 PM

DoctorCal: I don't understand what everyone is so concerned about. The whole "used WMDs on their own people" think is only used as a rationalization after the stated reason for invading a country is proven to be a blatant lie.


Not sure if serious.
 
2013-01-15 10:38:22 PM
Wag that dog
 
2013-01-15 10:46:54 PM
Even if thousands were gassed Obama is simply not going to react. If we mess with Syria we have to deal with Russia, something no one wants.

Sorry Syria you just don't have oil.
 
2013-01-15 10:49:37 PM
My fellow Americans: Seriously, how many times are you going to fall for this shiat? Even if this is true, what the hell business is it of ours? If you feel strongly about it please go over there and sign up with the rebels, or send your sons. I would say daughters, but the rebels have some pretty retrograde ideas of what to do with women. BTW, anyone else notice how the USA has done a good job of destroying the secular regimes in Iraq and Libya, and is working on doing the same with the secular regime in Syria? All that while supporting to the hilt one of the most repressive regimes on earth, Saudi Arabia, along with various other Arab despots?
 
2013-01-15 10:50:42 PM

Igor Jakovsky: leadmetal: halfof33: leadmetal: Ahh yes, The Germans are killing babies. The Iraqis are tossing babies out of incubators. When will americans start looking at these manipulative stories with a critical eye? Never? Probably.

The American people drawn into another war, another regime change. The state department wouldn't lie to get what they want. No. Never. When has government ever lied to get what those in it desire?

New century. Same manipulation.

We'll find out it's bullshiat in a few years. Just like has happened many times before.

Yeah, except for that whole Holocaust thing.

That Holocaust thing was not used to get the american people to go to war or support a war or support a revolution or regime change. By the time the american people knew about it, the war was essentially over. Of course one can never let logic get in the way of discrediting those who point out the manipulations.

Remember the Maine!

You're right about the holocaust. I wonder how much this country cared about the Jews based on the way we treated the refugees that Hitler sent here on ships. Half would have been better served by talking about Pearl harbor at which point you would say Roosevelt let it happen so we could join the war.

/I dont believe that BTW, but you were discussing conspiracies.


Conspiracies? Not at all. These are now facts of history. The World War One justification of German soldiers killing babies was a lie. Same with Iraqi military tossing babies from incubators. The Maine was a 19th century boiler explosion, an accident. The Gulf of Tokin incident never happened. There were no WMD in Iraq. These are all historical facts today. All public domain... too old to care about info released and verified that they were all manufactured and/or hyped to get the american people into war.

As to Pearl Harbor, it's slowly coming out how FDR did everything possible to provoke war via foreign policy. But that's more murky because one could always just say 'well the Japanese government chose to attack'. The lie was that the attack was 'unprovoked'. It was provoked much the way the US government is currently provoking war with Iran. Economically and politically while putting the navy out there as a display of strength. Although wrt to Iran the US government will probably do something that violates Iran's territory or in something Iran's government will be justified in defending itself but it will be spun to the american people as an attack.... It would be funny to see the US government react to foreign government putting that much hardware off the east coast.

halfof33: lolz, The USA didn't go to war in WWII because "germans" were killing "babies." But you are definitely backing winners, Hitler, Saddam and now Bashar, truly history's most misunderstood geniuses.


You probably shouldn't put your ignorance on display. Germans killing (bayoneting) babies was one of the excuses used to get americans to go to war in the _FIRST_ world war. You know, roughly a century ago. The one with the trenches.... when the Germans wore those spiked helmets? Here's a nice piece of WW1 propaganda for you:
www.stentorian.com

Also on display is your emotional and rational retardation. Presenting facts of history isn't backing anyone. But if you want to be so easily manipulated that's your choice.
 
2013-01-15 10:51:31 PM
Yes, let's start another war in the Middle East because Syria used incapacitating, non-lethal chemical weapons against their insurgents. Sounds like a great idea. I'm sure that is what Obama was referring to with his "red line" comments, not the wholesale slaughter of thousands by VX or Sarin or the like.

Until that happens, everyone can settle down.
 
2013-01-15 10:52:05 PM

Aarontology: GAT_00: Hell, yesterday quite a few people were adamant that we not do transport mission to help the French with Mali in maintaining a legitimate government against Al Queda. If that's anathema to the formerly pro-war crowd, what odds are there we go into Syria?

Depends on if it lingers until another GOP president is elected so they can go back to supported global war.


The real difference is the type of intervention. If Syria used chemical weapons on its own people, then we need to be willing to render aid in the form of direct military support....but only if enough the citizens of that country are willing to declare war on the regime.

Our mistake with Iraq is that we waited over a decade to do the job. Bunch more reasons why going the entire way with Iraq was retarded....you know, other than Saddam being terrified of Osama and Osama hating Saddam....and inflaming the region, and depriving our forces in Afghanistan of the necessary resources thus allowing the really pissed off people to gain a foothold in Afghanistan.

Maybe the people that are just looking for a reason to blame Obama and his supporters should learn the difference and reasoning for different types of intervention.

Iraq: 1.5 million deployed personal
Afghanistan 1.8 million deployed personal
500k in supporting roles around the world for the above campaigns.
Drone Strikes: several thousand support personal
Libya: 10k or so, less than 1k on the ground and most of them have already left.
Mali: No firm numbers(yet) but I would guess around 5k support and logistical personal. Less than 500 deployed away from where they are currently stationed.
 
2013-01-15 10:52:57 PM

Aarontology: So using chemical weapons, the Syrian government killed fewer people than were killed in Newtown.


Are we measuring massacres in "Newtowns" now?
 
2013-01-15 10:55:51 PM

GanjSmokr: Aarontology: So using chemical weapons, the Syrian government killed fewer people than were killed in Newtown.

Are we measuring massacres in "Newtowns" now?


Which means we should ban all guns and use chemical weapons as a safer method of home defense?
 
2013-01-15 10:58:21 PM
Ths is a bunch of Huffpo blah blah fluff crap....

"The doctors on the scene said they were not able to pinpoint the poison because they lacked the advanced laboratory equipment needed. They took blood, hair, saliva, and urine samples, but those samples are no longer viable for testing because too much time has passed, they said.

"We took many samples, we kept them, but we cannot get them anywhere because we are in the besieged Homs area," he said. "We are not 100 percent sure what poison was used, but we can say with firm statement that it was not tear gas, that's for sure."

The State Department, in response to inquiries from The Cable, declined to comment on the secret cable from Istanbul or say whether or not chemical weapons were used in the Homs attack..."



Just junk.


There are people, weapons, journos and fighters in and out all the time. Yet no one can get a sample to anyone.

/BS
//second hand BS
 
2013-01-15 10:59:30 PM

leadmetal: Igor Jakovsky: leadmetal: halfof33: leadmetal: Ahh yes, The Germans are killing babies. The Iraqis are tossing babies out of incubators. When will americans start looking at these manipulative stories with a critical eye? Never? Probably.

The American people drawn into another war, another regime change. The state department wouldn't lie to get what they want. No. Never. When has government ever lied to get what those in it desire?

New century. Same manipulation.

We'll find out it's bullshiat in a few years. Just like has happened many times before.

Yeah, except for that whole Holocaust thing.

That Holocaust thing was not used to get the american people to go to war or support a war or support a revolution or regime change. By the time the american people knew about it, the war was essentially over. Of course one can never let logic get in the way of discrediting those who point out the manipulations.

Remember the Maine!

You're right about the holocaust. I wonder how much this country cared about the Jews based on the way we treated the refugees that Hitler sent here on ships. Half would have been better served by talking about Pearl harbor at which point you would say Roosevelt let it happen so we could join the war.

/I dont believe that BTW, but you were discussing conspiracies.

Conspiracies? Not at all. These are now facts of history. The World War One justification of German soldiers killing babies was a lie. Same with Iraqi military tossing babies from incubators. The Maine was a 19th century boiler explosion, an accident. The Gulf of Tokin incident never happened. There were no WMD in Iraq. These are all historical facts today. All public domain... too old to care about info released and verified that they were all manufactured and/or hyped to get the american people into war.

As to Pearl Harbor, it's slowly coming out how FDR did everything possible to provoke war via foreign policy. But that's more murky because one could always just say 'well ...


Ok tin foil, you have obviously no idea about the difference between "justifications" for war and "war time propaganda." They are not the same thing, but it is a subtle difference and there is no way that you will ever understand the difference. No way, you spout grossly inane talking points in the name of history. Pearl Harbor is an inside jobby job!

The fact that you think we went to war because Germans killed babies is farking embarrassing.
 
2013-01-15 11:11:08 PM

halfof33: Ok tin foil, you have obviously no idea about the difference between "justifications" for war and "war time propaganda." They are not the same thing, but it is a subtle difference and there is no way that you will ever understand the difference. No way, you spout grossly inane talking points in the name of history. Pearl Harbor is an inside jobby job!

The fact that you think we went to war because Germans killed babies is farking embarrassing.



Ahh name calling and displaying another common trait of people like yourself, an inability to read and comprehend. It's all emotion. Just another well conditioned product of the american government schools.
Propaganda is how you get people to go to war. To get people to go war requires a number of aspects of manipulations. Which is why I wrote that bayoneting babies was one of those used to get americans into world war one. You do know what the phrase 'one of' means, correct? Each war requires various appeals to emotion. One is fear of the enemy. One is that the war moral and just. One is that the enemy is evil. Usually all three of these and more are used to get people to go to war. To get the peasantry to give up its children and treasure to the war effort. It's just a waste of time with you, I know it's most likely you'll again lash out like one of the characters from "Idiocracy".
 
2013-01-15 11:11:42 PM

mrlewish: Time to call up all those 2nd Amendmenters for their Militia service in Syria.

Am I doing it right?


Militias are for home defense, let us know when the Syrians are deploying gas in NY...so we can laugh.
 
2013-01-15 11:20:34 PM
I wonder if they have a Made in Iraq label, naaaawwww. Not possible. Channeling George W. Bush
 
2013-01-15 11:25:53 PM

leadmetal: Also on display is your emotional and rational retardation.


leadmetal: Ahh name calling and displaying another common trait of people like yourself, an inability to read and comprehend.


LOLZ! That is fantastic!

Anyway, you have all the hallmarks of the conspiracy theorists. Lets take one? "To get the peasantry to give up its children and treasure to the war effort." You see, our friend here thinks most people (except him and his friends) are peasants, easily manipulated by evil people that people like him see right through! Those ships that Germany was sinking in the Atlantic? Only a peasant would take notice of them.

Call me a retard again.
 
2013-01-15 11:40:03 PM

halfof33: Ok tin foil, you have obviously no idea about the difference between "justifications" for war and "war time propaganda." They are not the same thing, but it is a subtle difference and there is no way that you will ever understand the difference


Let's see... one is intended to rally the popular support of the befuddled masses, while the other is intended to rally the popular support of the befuddled masses.

Amirite?
 
2013-01-15 11:41:38 PM
Quick! Does Syria have any oil or other natural resources that can be exploited by an invading scarily-large government military apparatus and aren't already being exploited by a different scarily-large government military apparatus?
 
2013-01-15 11:43:22 PM

halfof33: Call me a retard again.



Okay, so you're a retard again.


War creates debt
Debt creates loans
Loans generate interest
Interest translates into profit$

/War is hell?
//Depends on the perspective
///Doesn't it?
 
2013-01-15 11:46:04 PM

Amos Quito: halfof33: Ok tin foil, you have obviously no idea about the difference between "justifications" for war and "war time propaganda." They are not the same thing, but it is a subtle difference and there is no way that you will ever understand the difference

Let's see... one is intended to rally the popular support of the befuddled masses, while the other is intended to rally the popular support of the befuddled masses.

Amirite?


Lolz. One is used by historians to discuss complex events, the other is used by morans on Fark.
 
2013-01-15 11:48:19 PM

Amos Quito: halfof33: Call me a retard again.


Okay, so you're a retard again.


War creates debt
Debt creates loans
Loans generate interest
Interest translates into profit$

/War is hell?
//Depends on the perspective
///Doesn't it?


Yeah, man, the Kaiser's creditors were ROLLING in it, holla holla holla!
 
2013-01-15 11:48:48 PM

halfof33: leadmetal: Also on display is your emotional and rational retardation.

leadmetal: Ahh name calling and displaying another common trait of people like yourself, an inability to read and comprehend.

LOLZ! That is fantastic!

Anyway, you have all the hallmarks of the conspiracy theorists. Lets take one? "To get the peasantry to give up its children and treasure to the war effort." You see, our friend here thinks most people (except him and his friends) are peasants, easily manipulated by evil people that people like him see right through! Those ships that Germany was sinking in the Atlantic? Only a peasant would take notice of them.

Call me a retard again.


I didn't call you a retard. I stated you demonstrated retarded rational and emotional abilities. Now go look up the definition of the word retarded. (Hint: I am using in the way one would retard ignition timing on a 4 stroke gasoline engine) It was a test to see if you'd act like a character out of "Idiocracy" and congratulations, you have.

It's also amazing how much you read into things, just fill things in out of your own imagination on cue right out of your social conditioning. Here's a hint, peasantry just refers to those who don't make the decisions. Just the people who don't profit from war. The ones who at best can hope to get back to their homes in one piece. That's all. But they have to be convinced to go along. Then once they are convinced they cannot accept they were suckered so they stick by the lie and lash out at anyone who mentions the truth. You're a perfect example.

Perhaps Hermann Goering can explain it to you:
davidkretzmann.com

I've got a reading assignment for you. It was written by the most decorated Marine. Someone who's opinion about war and people being manipulated into it usually causes most people like yourself to go silent. Anyway, it might teach you something about what war is: War is a Racket
 
2013-01-15 11:53:27 PM

leadmetal: halfof33: Ok tin foil, you have obviously no idea about the difference between "justifications" for war and "war time propaganda." They are not the same thing, but it is a subtle difference and there is no way that you will ever understand the difference. No way, you spout grossly inane talking points in the name of history. Pearl Harbor is an inside jobby job!

The fact that you think we went to war because Germans killed babies is farking embarrassing.


Ahh name calling and displaying another common trait of people like yourself, an inability to read and comprehend. It's all emotion. Just another well conditioned product of the american government schools.


Except, leadmetal, you insulted halfof33 earlier saying he was emotionally and rationally retarded. So yeah, I guess you are also unable to read and comprehend by this logic?
 
2013-01-15 11:55:11 PM

Doktor_Zhivago: "One day Samuel said to Saul, "It was the Lord who told me to anoint you as king of his people, Israel. Now listen to this message from the Lord! 2 This is what the Lord of Heaven's Armies has declared: I have decided to settle accounts with the nation of Amalek for opposing Israel when they came from Egypt. 3 Now go and completely destroy[a] the entire Amalekite nation-men, women, children, babies, cattle, sheep, goats, camels, and donkeys.""


Baron Munchausen: What's this?
Vulcan: Oh, this is our prototype. RX, uh, Intercontinental, radar-sneaky, multi-warheaded nuclear missile.
Baron Munchausen: Ah!...What does it do?
Vulcan: Do? Kills the enemy.
Baron Munchausen: All the enemy?
Vulcan: Aye, all of them. All their wives, and all their children, and all their sheep, and all their cattle, and all their cats and dogs. All of them. All of them, gone for good.
 
2013-01-15 11:59:45 PM

leadmetal: Perhaps Hermann Goering can explain it to you:


Well, then, the non-peasant is quoting Hermann Goering. From the Nuremburg Trials.That CERTAINLY settles that. Any other words of wisdom from some of history's greatest criminals you want to share with us? Hitler perhaps?

He really quoted that, I am at a loss.

But he meant "retarded" in the positive, non-insulting way.
 
2013-01-16 12:00:27 AM

make me some tea: Oh hell.


Don't worry, the USA has zero credibility in this department. Nobody relevant will follow them into war over over this kind of claim again.
 
2013-01-16 12:03:34 AM
It's Syria's problem not ours. As soon as they cross a border it becomes something else. We (the US) have no right to intervene in internal conflicts of other countries unless it is a threat to the US or its allies. The same reason why invading Iraq was wrong makes this wrong.

We are not the world police, that is the job of the UN. That and letter writing.
 
2013-01-16 12:03:35 AM
ah shiat . its done got real.
 
2013-01-16 12:19:23 AM

mjbok: We are not the world police, that is the job of the UN. That and letter writing.


Exactly. No UN resolution = no intervention. I'd like to see Syria overthrow Assad and all that, but without global consensus, we cannot and should not act.
 
2013-01-16 12:19:48 AM

halfof33: Amos Quito: halfof33: Call me a retard again.


Okay, so you're a retard again.


War creates debt
Debt creates loans
Loans generate interest
Interest translates into profit$

/War is hell?
//Depends on the perspective
///Doesn't it?


Yeah, man, the Kaiser's creditors were ROLLING in it, holla holla holla!



Look up the Treaty of Versailles, and the associated "reparations".

Silly lad.
 
2013-01-16 12:23:55 AM

frenchcheesemuseum: OH hell is right make me some tea.  I'm not signing up to any site just to read a freaking article.


styckx: LOGIN WITH YOUR FOREIGNPOLICY.COM ACCOUNTNo...


Say whut? It's HuffPo. No login required.

Or am I missing something?
 
2013-01-16 12:25:29 AM

Amos Quito: Look up the Treaty of Versailles, and the associated "reparations".

Silly lad.


I'm not sure you are getting the whole "things didn't work out to good for the Germans," who might have had a wee bit to do with the whole "war" thing.

Just a, you know, thought?
 
2013-01-16 12:30:06 AM

Amos Quito: scubamage: Solid State Vittles: To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?

That's crazy talk, why, someone capable of doing that would probably want to start putting flouride in the drinking supply!

BLAH!

Fluoride is harmless.

/Unless it is used in combination with chlorine, of course


And That's The End Of The Whole Mess.
 
2013-01-16 12:30:57 AM

d23: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 243x320]

"The language of the Great Convention is clear enough: Use of atomics chemical burn yer-ass agents against humans shall be cause for planetary obliteration of your stinking shiatty country."


That makes total sense. The civilians the gas doesn't kill can be killed when we carpet bomb the place.

The correct answer is to send in hit teams and take out the top 3 layers of leadership. But that will never happen because the Boss Class never attacks their own. It's just not done. Tacky. Makes for bad precedent. The function of the Boss Class is to lead; the function of the Unwashed Masses is to die.

And, yes, that goes for the United States, too (no matter who is President).
 
2013-01-16 12:35:57 AM

halfof33: leadmetal: Perhaps Hermann Goering can explain it to you:

Well, then, the non-peasant is quoting Hermann Goering. From the Nuremburg Trials.That CERTAINLY settles that. Any other words of wisdom from some of history's greatest criminals you want to share with us? Hitler perhaps?

He really quoted that, I am at a loss.

But he meant "retarded" in the positive, non-insulting way.


It's a shame you are governed by emotions and conditioning rather than any sort of objective rational thought. The sociopaths that often rise to the top of political systems are practiced the art of manipulating people. That's how they get to be such positions. Perhaps if you could put aside your emotions you would understand it. About now your only hope is to be a troll but given your initial lack of a grasp on history... well...

optional: Except, leadmetal, you insulted halfof33 earlier saying he was emotionally and rationally retarded. So yeah, I guess you are also unable to read and comprehend by this logic?


There's name calling and then there is observation. There was no name calling from me, just my observation of what was posted. Something that was clearly a state of being slowed, or perhaps delayed academic progress. A retardation. It is a correct word to use for that observation. As one would retard spark advance. I I admit the choice of words a bit of a troll to see the reaction. I could have easily used others. But seeing someone key in on a word like Beavis and Butthead can be slightly amusing.
 
2013-01-16 12:37:11 AM

leadmetal: halfof33: leadmetal: Ahh yes, The Germans are killing babies. The Iraqis are tossing babies out of incubators. When will americans start looking at these manipulative stories with a critical eye? Never? Probably.

The American people drawn into another war, another regime change. The state department wouldn't lie to get what they want. No. Never. When has government ever lied to get what those in it desire?

New century. Same manipulation.

We'll find out it's bullshiat in a few years. Just like has happened many times before.

Yeah, except for that whole Holocaust thing.

That Holocaust thing was not used to get the american people to go to war or support a war or support a revolution or regime change. By the time the american people knew about it, the war was essentially over. Of course one can never let logic get in the way of discrediting those who point out the manipulations.

Remember the Maine!


Presumably you were referring to propaganda about German cruelty in WWI, but it certainly crippled your argument to invoke atrocities that were WORSE than anything that propaganda claimed.
 
2013-01-16 12:39:49 AM
...pretense.
 
2013-01-16 12:42:47 AM
BronyMedic:

No, the issue is that Syria is using a weapon that the entire world the tame press and hypocritical politicos of the USA and NATO views as anathema and unthinkable to use on their worst enemies on their own citizens secular-liberal and/or Islamist Sunnis...

Brony, guy, you know that for ~1200 years the Sunni Arab majority has viewed the region's ethnic and/or religious minorities as "not really real people" at best, that they didn't get a decent break till the Assads and their friends slapped together a coalition of those minorities and imposed it on the majority by force. It's as if The Rainbow Coalition had been truly multi-colored and come to power, the big difference being that Syria literally never had a "democratic republican" electoral tradition like we do so the only way the Syrian version could have come to power is by a military coup and the inevitable "necessary measures" that go with that. And ever since then the Sunni Arab majority, in one guise or another, has been protesting against the "injustice," just as the Tea Party here has been on the warpath against Obama since Fall 2008, with the difference again being that here the Teapartiers' talk about armed insurrection against the minority usurpers has been only talk.

The Sunni view of the Baathist regime does resemble the ex-Confederate rhetoric about "Negro rule" during Radical Reconstruction except that in Syria the "carpetbaggers" and "freedmen" did come to power and stayed in power for 40 years. Imagine if Frederick Douglass had been Lincoln's vice president instead of Andrew Johnson, and then two generations later outside powers had decided to help the downtrodden ex-slaveowners rebel against their "oppression."

This is not to say the Assadists are anything less than murderous bastards, only that (thanks in large part to the Baathists' own doing) they're absolutely right that a Sunni victory would mean a bloodbath against the minorities. So now the only way to avert reciprocal massacres is to partition the country along ethnic/religious lines as the French wanted to do before WW2, letting the Sunni Arabs have their own way in their own area without pushing the others around as they did through over a millennium of dhimmitude.

The only involvement "outside" (i.e. US-dominated) forces should have is to separate the combatants and rearrange the demographics. Before it's done by the Syrians themselves, with all the mess that would entail. And before "Al Qaeda" inherits the country.

Modern Syria and Lebanon are as artificial as the ex-colonies of Africa. Fix it by fragmenting the territory into "dukedoms" and then knit them together loosely under the NATO aegis.

The alternative, a secular democratic republic like the US and NATO countries have, is simply beyond the ken of the average Syrian of whatever persuasion for the foreseeable future. Maybe once they're separated they can start viewing each other as people instead of "those people."

Of course we probably should just nuke it from orbit and go on to the next humanitarian crisis. But, well, you know...
 
2013-01-16 12:44:59 AM
I'm still not sure why ""We can't definitely say 100 percent, but Syrian contacts made a compelling case that Agent 15 was used in Homs on Dec. 23," the official said." equals "SYRIA USED CHEMICAL WEAPONS ON THEIR OWN PEOPLE" in so many people's minds. Let's break this down.

We can't definitely say = we can't say for sure, or, we can't make a positive statement, or, we aren't saying with any certainty;
100% = as in, we're not 100% sure. So how sure are they? 99% sure? 50% sure? Are they even remotely sure?
Syrian contacts = as in, not American agents? Who's telling us this? Anyone who doesn't have a vested interest in getting American boots on the ground ASAP?
Made a compelling case = Is that better than "beyond a reasonable doubt"? More than "preponderance of evidence"?

Not that I doubt Syria WOULD do it, of course; it's just that it sounds awfully like the assurances we got "Oh, yes, there's weapons of mass destruction all over Iraq! You can hardly move without tripping over them!" Chalabi was giving us.
 
2013-01-16 12:52:59 AM
"We can't definitely say 100 percent, but Syrian contacts made a compelling case that Agent 15 was used in Homs on Dec. 23," the official said.

Big deal. Agent 15 a.k.a. 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate a.k.a. BZ is not toxic.
 
2013-01-16 12:55:42 AM
The lies will continue being told as long as you idiots keep believing them.
 
2013-01-16 01:00:39 AM
If they had guns in Syria, they wouldn't have this problem.
 
2013-01-16 01:00:39 AM

Fano: Presumably you were referring to propaganda about German cruelty in WWI, but it certainly crippled your argument to invoke atrocities that were WORSE than anything that propaganda claimed.


I didn't invoke anything such thing. Please read the exchange. I posted about the lies to get americans into war. One specifically was world war one. Then someone who didn't understand history got really confused and then acted to "invoke atrocities that were WORSE than anything that propaganda claimed" from a later war, world war two. They aren't even from the same war and in that later war weren't known to americans until the war was nearly over. Thus the concentration camps of WW2 were totally irrelevant. The post you replied to is me explaining that they had no bearing on convincing people to go to war whatsoever.
 
2013-01-16 01:10:47 AM

leadmetal: Fano: Presumably you were referring to propaganda about German cruelty in WWI, but it certainly crippled your argument to invoke atrocities that were WORSE than anything that propaganda claimed.

I didn't invoke anything such thing. Please read the exchange. I posted about the lies to get americans into war. One specifically was world war one. Then someone who didn't understand history got really confused and then acted to "invoke atrocities that were WORSE than anything that propaganda claimed" from a later war, world war two. They aren't even from the same war and in that later war weren't known to americans until the war was nearly over. Thus the concentration camps of WW2 were totally irrelevant. The post you replied to is me explaining that they had no bearing on convincing people to go to war whatsoever.


You ARE retarded if you didn't think you weren't blowing a dog whistle, troll. I responded from reading up to that point in the thread. Reading the rest indicated that you were intentionally vague to put a worm on the hook.

That said, are you pro-isolationist or pro-central powers regarding WWI?
 
2013-01-16 01:12:02 AM
So Obama redraws the line in the sand to suit his political agenda. Wat else is new?
 
2013-01-16 01:15:15 AM

Doktor_Zhivago: Amos Quito: scubamage: Solid State Vittles: To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?

That's crazy talk, why, someone capable of doing that would probably want to start putting flouride in the drinking supply!

BLAH!

Fluoride is harmless.

/Unless it is used in combination with chlorine, of course

Or hydrogen... Then it can etch glass. Or dissolve bodies.
[community.us.playstation.com image 450x317]


img.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-16 01:30:39 AM
Hurr Obama the WAR President HURR extending Bush's POLICIES DURR
 
2013-01-16 01:35:42 AM
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-01-16 01:41:47 AM

DoctorCal: I don't understand what everyone is so concerned about. The whole "used WMDs on their own people" think is only used as a rationalization after the stated reason for invading a country is proven to be a blatant lie.


Ayup. Next they will be telling us that the regime is oppressive to women folk... and libs can't say no when it comes to sticking up for broads.
 
2013-01-16 01:47:02 AM

leadmetal: halfof33: leadmetal: Perhaps Hermann Goering can explain it to you:

Well, then, the non-peasant is quoting Hermann Goering. From the Nuremburg Trials.That CERTAINLY settles that. Any other words of wisdom from some of history's greatest criminals you want to share with us? Hitler perhaps?

He really quoted that, I am at a loss.

But he meant "retarded" in the positive, non-insulting way.

It's a shame you are governed by emotions and conditioning rather than any sort of objective rational thought. The sociopaths that often rise to the top of political systems are practiced the art of manipulating people. That's how they get to be such positions. Perhaps if you could put aside your emotions you would understand it. About now your only hope is to be a troll but given your initial lack of a grasp on history... well...

optional: Except, leadmetal, you insulted halfof33 earlier saying he was emotionally and rationally retarded. So yeah, I guess you are also unable to read and comprehend by this logic?

There's name calling and then there is observation. There was no name calling from me, just my observation of what was posted. Something that was clearly a state of being slowed, or perhaps delayed academic progress. A retardation. It is a correct word to use for that observation. As one would retard spark advance. I I admit the choice of words a bit of a troll to see the reaction. I could have easily used others. But seeing someone key in on a word like Beavis and Butthead can be slightly amusing.


Yes, but you deliberately phrased it as an insult. Your point had already been made, making an ad hominem unnecessary.

Therefore, by your own standards, you are unable to read or comprehend anything. Which also makes this a waste of text, as you will not be able to understand it. Oh well.
 
2013-01-16 02:29:26 AM

make me some tea: mjbok: We are not the world police, that is the job of the UN. That and letter writing.

Exactly. No UN resolution = no intervention. I'd like to see Syria overthrow Assad and all that, but without global consensus, we cannot and should not act.


Fark the UN and their consensus. They'll never have a consensus with Russia and China cool with Assad. And neither will do sh*t if we intervene.

I don't want us to go to "war" war. But if this is true(and I'm not without doubt), I don't mind us helping the resistance with some targeted airstrikes. Chemical weapons are just something else entirely, If Assad is at a point to do that to his own people then he is a threat to the region, a threat to Israel, and if Israel gets hit, you know what? I don't want WWIII right now.

I don't see why using our air power to help the freedom fighters was cool in Libya but is suddenly taboo in Syria. Oh yeah, that was an actual war for oil.
 
2013-01-16 02:34:00 AM

violentsalvation: make me some tea: mjbok: We are not the world police, that is the job of the UN. That and letter writing.

Exactly. No UN resolution = no intervention. I'd like to see Syria overthrow Assad and all that, but without global consensus, we cannot and should not act.

Fark the UN and their consensus. They'll never have a consensus with Russia and China cool with Assad. And neither will do sh*t if we intervene.

I don't want us to go to "war" war. But if this is true(and I'm not without doubt), I don't mind us helping the resistance with some targeted airstrikes. Chemical weapons are just something else entirely, If Assad is at a point to do that to his own people then he is a threat to the region, a threat to Israel, and if Israel gets hit, you know what? I don't want WWIII right now.

I don't see why using our air power to help the freedom fighters was cool in Libya but is suddenly taboo in Syria. Oh yeah, that was an actual war for oil.


maybe because these Syrian "freedom fighters" are Al Qaeda.
 
2013-01-16 02:35:07 AM
so 60000 folks have died, but the way these 5 died means war?
 
2013-01-16 02:49:59 AM

mr lawson: violentsalvation: make me some tea: mjbok: We are not the world police, that is the job of the UN. That and letter writing.

Exactly. No UN resolution = no intervention. I'd like to see Syria overthrow Assad and all that, but without global consensus, we cannot and should not act.

Fark the UN and their consensus. They'll never have a consensus with Russia and China cool with Assad. And neither will do sh*t if we intervene.

I don't want us to go to "war" war. But if this is true(and I'm not without doubt), I don't mind us helping the resistance with some targeted airstrikes. Chemical weapons are just something else entirely, If Assad is at a point to do that to his own people then he is a threat to the region, a threat to Israel, and if Israel gets hit, you know what? I don't want WWIII right now.

I don't see why using our air power to help the freedom fighters was cool in Libya but is suddenly taboo in Syria. Oh yeah, that was an actual war for oil.

maybe because these Syrian "freedom fighters" are Al Qaeda.


Oh, without a doubt there are extremists jumping into the fray. We can bomb them when and if we need to, but for now I choose to believe the Syrian people can govern themselves and deal with the extremists hiding among their ranks as they see fit.

I remember in the middle of the worst fighting in Iraq 2.0 pundits were calling for a benevolent dictator to rule the country, someone like Mubarak, they said. And it was somewhere around that point that I realized nobody gave a shiat about democracy in the middle east. It was all a lie.
 
2013-01-16 03:19:05 AM
They didn't attack us with them, so it's none of our business.
 
2013-01-16 03:21:05 AM
What an attack with chemical weapons might look like:

media-1.web.britannica.com
 
2013-01-16 04:05:52 AM
Get your war cock up, chicken hawk farktards. i hate you.
 
2013-01-16 04:15:48 AM
why so syria
 
2013-01-16 04:31:34 AM
Because not actually having WMDs will certainly prevent a US invasion, right?
 
2013-01-16 04:57:25 AM
And why should that mean anything?

Just because you have absolute proof of chemical weapons being used should never be evidence that a country probably has them and might use them again.

That's what liberals kept telling me about Iraq anyway. Saddam used them on his own people, all during the 90s during the Clinton presidency we heard about them from everyone including the UN.

Then suddenly nobody had ever heard of Saddam having or using chemical weapons and the fact that we couldn't find massive stock piles of them now was all that was important.
 
2013-01-16 07:41:33 AM

BronyMedic: Krymson Tyde: Apparently the Newtown murders were faked by our government. At least according to some of the more unhinged folks on Facebook

You mean people who need a good cockpunch.

Aarontology: So using chemical weapons, the Syrian government killed fewer people than were killed in Newtown.

And for some, this is evidence we need to go to war.

Makes total sense.

No, the issue is that Syria is using a weapon that the entire world views as anathema and unthinkable to use on their worst enemies on their own citizens, even people who have done nothing to support or fight against the rebel faction.


the syrian gov't have been carpet bombing their own citizens for awhile

but chemical weapons show up and ZOMG!1

whatever response we have is already a farce imo
 
2013-01-16 07:53:28 AM
Anyone else not believe any of this?
 
2013-01-16 08:03:50 AM
Don't everyone get your shorts in a twist about this. Bashar al-Asshat, who reads the news just like the rest of us, knows that the Obama administration has recalled our troops from Iraq and that it is in the process of recalling the rest of our troops from Afghanistan. We won't intervene and he knows it, which is one of the reasons he is staying put, hanging on, and killing his enemies instead of packing his suitcases and moving to Russia.
 
2013-01-16 09:14:37 AM

leadmetal: t's a shame you are governed by emotions and conditioning rather than any sort of objective rational thought. The sociopaths that often rise to the top of political systems are practiced the art of manipulating people. That's how they get to be such positions. Perhaps if you could put aside your emotions you would understand it. About now your only hope is to be a troll but given your initial lack of a grasp on history... well...

optional: Except, leadmetal, you insulted halfof33 earlier saying he was emotionally and rationally retarded. So yeah, I guess you are also unable to read and comprehend by this logic?

There's name calling and then there is observation. There was no name calling from me, just my observation of what was posted. Something that was clearly a state of being slowed, or perhaps delayed academic progress. A retardation. It is a correct word to use for that observation. As one would retard spark advance. I I admit the choice of words a bit of a troll to see the reaction. I could have easily used others. But seeing someone key in on a word like Beavis and Butthead can be slightly amusing.



Bro, you seem mad because someone disagreed with you. Awww.

And sport? Everyone is pointing out the reference to "retard" because you are a drooling hypocrite who was hoisted by your own "retard." (It's a pun!)

I like you, you think you are smart, and also think that WWI was started by Propaganda posters seeking recruits after the declaration of war. THAT is precious.

I don't mind trolling, just bring your farking A game next time.
 
2013-01-16 09:33:34 AM

halfof33: Amos Quito: halfof33: Call me a retard again.


Okay, so you're a retard again.


War creates debt
Debt creates loans
Loans generate interest
Interest translates into profit$

/War is hell?
//Depends on the perspective
///Doesn't it?

Yeah, man, the Kaiser's creditors were ROLLING in it, holla holla holla!


Just because some investors bet on the wrong side, doesn't mean there weren't profits:

http://www.nber.org/digest/jan05/w10580.html
 
2013-01-16 09:35:10 AM

Bennie Crabtree: make me some tea: Oh hell.

Don't worry, the USA has zero credibility in this department. Nobody relevant will follow them into war over over this kind of claim again.


Unless there's money to be made.

Just watch.
 
2013-01-16 09:38:08 AM

randomjsa: And why should that mean anything?

Just because you have absolute proof of chemical weapons being used should never be evidence that a country probably has them and might use them again.

That's what liberals kept telling me about Iraq anyway. Saddam used them on his own people, all during the 90s during the Clinton presidency we heard about them from everyone including the UN.

Then suddenly nobody had ever heard of Saddam having or using chemical weapons and the fact that we couldn't find massive stock piles of them now was all that was important.


Skipped over a couple important parts of the chain of events there, chuckles.

By all means, put up a Mossad quote backing the WMD rationale for invading Iraq.

Go on, we'll wait.
 
2013-01-16 10:41:57 AM
So, not to poke the badger with a stick or taunt the dynamite monkey or anything, but how does Assad's government feel towards Israel? I know that Israel and Syria really don't get along THAT well, but could Israel be concerned that any government led by the rebels would cause new and different (more shooty) problems in the Golan Heights? They're probably nervous enough about regime change in Egypt, since now they might have to worry about Gaza and the Sinai again.
 
2013-01-16 12:57:46 PM

violentsalvation: make me some tea: mjbok: We are not the world police, that is the job of the UN. That and letter writing.

Exactly. No UN resolution = no intervention. I'd like to see Syria overthrow Assad and all that, but without global consensus, we cannot and should not act.

Fark the UN and their consensus. They'll never have a consensus with Russia and China cool with Assad. And neither will do sh*t if we intervene.

I don't want us to go to "war" war. But if this is true(and I'm not without doubt), I don't mind us helping the resistance with some targeted airstrikes. Chemical weapons are just something else entirely, If Assad is at a point to do that to his own people then he is a threat to the region, a threat to Israel, and if Israel gets hit, you know what? I don't want WWIII right now.

I don't see why using our air power to help the freedom fighters was cool in Libya but is suddenly taboo in Syria. Oh yeah, that was an actual war for oil.


It wasn't. Intervening in an internal matter of a sovereign nation us none of our business.
 
2013-01-16 01:22:06 PM

mjbok: violentsalvation: make me some tea: mjbok: We are not the world police, that is the job of the UN. That and letter writing.

Exactly. No UN resolution = no intervention. I'd like to see Syria overthrow Assad and all that, but without global consensus, we cannot and should not act.

Fark the UN and their consensus. They'll never have a consensus with Russia and China cool with Assad. And neither will do sh*t if we intervene.

I don't want us to go to "war" war. But if this is true(and I'm not without doubt), I don't mind us helping the resistance with some targeted airstrikes. Chemical weapons are just something else entirely, If Assad is at a point to do that to his own people then he is a threat to the region, a threat to Israel, and if Israel gets hit, you know what? I don't want WWIII right now.

I don't see why using our air power to help the freedom fighters was cool in Libya but is suddenly taboo in Syria. Oh yeah, that was an actual war for oil.

It wasn't. Intervening in an internal matter of a sovereign nation us none of our business.


Not without UN consensus by all member nations. We made the mistake of going unilaterally into Iraq. A few trillion later and 500,000 people dead, we probably realized we shouldn't have done that. Libya and the Bosnian War were perfect examples of the types of international intervention that are allowable. If we could get a UN resolution on Syria, I'd be all for NATO intervention there as well.
 
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