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(Huffington Post)   Upon further review, we have determined that Syria did use chemical weapons on its own people. Please set the war clock to "Soon"   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 142
    More: Scary, State Department, chemical weapons, Homs, Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, Syrian Army, Golan Heights, children playing, girl play  
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13082 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jan 2013 at 8:42 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-15 06:00:35 PM
Oh hell.
 
2013-01-15 06:01:34 PM
OH hell is right make me some tea.  I'm not signing up to any site just to read a freaking article.
 
2013-01-15 06:01:42 PM
LOGIN WITH YOUR FOREIGNPOLICY.COM ACCOUNTNo...
 
2013-01-15 06:07:19 PM
Has anyone informed the State Department that their "secret" cables seem to be pretty consistently not?

/more leaks than the mens room at a bar giving away free beer
 
2013-01-15 06:08:49 PM
The Article:
A secret State Department cable has concluded that the Syrian military likely used chemical weapons against its own people in a deadly attack last month, The Cable has learned.

United States diplomats in Turkey conducted a previously undisclosed, intensive investigation into claims that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad used chemical weapons, and made what an Obama administration official who reviewed the cable called a "compelling case" that Assad's military forces had used a deadly form of poison gas.

The cable, signed by the U.S. consul general in Istanbul, Scott Frederic Kilner, and sent to State Department headquarters in Washington last week, outlined the results of the consulate's investigation into reports from inside Syria that chemical weapons had been used in the city of Homs on Dec. 23.

The consul general's report followed a series of interviews with activists, doctors, and defectors, in what the administration official said was one of the most comprehensive efforts the U.S. government has made to investigate claims by internal Syrian sources. The investigation included a meeting between the consulate staff and Mustafa al-Sheikh, a high-level defector who once was a major general in Assad's army and key official in the Syrian military's WMD program.

An Obama administration official who reviewed the document, which was classified at the "secret" level, detailed its contents to The Cable. "We can't definitely say 100 percent, but Syrian contacts made a compelling case that Agent 15 was used in Homs on Dec. 23," the official said.

The use of chemical weapons by the Assad regime would cross the "red line" President Barack Obama first established in an Aug. 20 statement. "We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized. That would change my calculus. That would change my equation," Obama said.

To date, the administration has not initiated any major policy changes in response to the classified cable, but a Deputies Committee meeting of top administration officials is scheduled for this week.

The report confirms the worst fears of officials who are frustrated by the current policy, which is to avoid any direct military assistance to the Syrian rebels and limit U.S. aid to sporadic deliveries of humanitarian and communications equipment.

Many believe that Assad is testing U.S. red lines.

"This reflects the concerns of many in the U.S. government that the regime is pursuing a policy of escalation to see what they can get away with as the regime is getting more desperate," the administration official said.

The consulate's investigation was facilitated by BASMA, an NGO the State Department has hired as one of its implementing partners inside Syria. BASMA connected consular officials with witnesses to the incident and other first-hand information.

The official warned that if the U.S. government does not react strongly to the use of chemical weapons in Homs, Assad may be emboldened to escalate his use of such weapons of mass destruction.

"It's incidents like this that lead to a mass-casualty event," the official said.

Activist and doctors on the ground in Homs have been circulating evidence of the Dec. 23 incident over the past three weeks in an attempt to convince the international community of its veracity. An Arabic-language report circulated by the rebels' Homs medical committee detailed the symptoms of several of the victims who were brought to a makeshift field hospital inside the city and claims that the victims suffered severe effects of inhaling poisonous gas.

Activists have also been circulating videos of the victims on YouTube and Facebook. In one of the videos, victims can be seen struggling for breath and choking on their own vomit. (More videos, which are graphic, can be found here, here, here, here, here and here.)

Experts say the symptoms match the effects of Agent 15, known also by its NATO code BZ, which is a CX-level incapacitating agent that is controlled under schedule 2 of the Chemical Weapons Convention, to which Syria is a party.

"The symptoms of an incapacitating agent are temporary. If someone is exposed to BZ, they are likely to be confused, perhaps to hallucinate," said Amy Smithson, a senior fellow with the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies. "While it is not good news that a chemical agent of any kind may have been used in the Syrian conflict, this Agent 15 is certainly on the less harmful end of the spectrum of chemical warfare agents believed to be in the Syrian arsenal."

The Cable spoke with two doctors who were on the scene in Homs on Dec. 23 and treated the victims. Both doctors said that the chemical weapon used in the attack may not have been Agent 15, but they are sure it was a chemical weapon, not a form of tear gas. The doctors attributed five deaths and approximately 100 instances of severe respiratory, nervous system, and gastrointestinal ailments to the poison gas.

"It was a chemical weapon, we are sure of that, because tear gas can't cause the death of five people," said Dr. Nashwan Abu Abdo, a neurologist who spoke with The Cable from an undisclosed location inside of Homs.

Abdo said the chemical agent was delivered by a tank shell and that the range of symptoms varied based on the victim's proximity to the poison. The lightly affected people exhibited gastrointestinal symptoms, nausea, vomiting, and abdominal pain, he said. Victims who received a higher concentration of the poison, in addition to the gastrointestinal symptoms, showed respiratory symptoms as well.

"The main symptom of the respiratory ailments was bronchial secretions. This particular symptom was the cause of the death of all of the people," he said. "All of them died choking on their own secretions."

The doctors said their conclusion that the poison was a chemical agent and not tear gas was based on three factors: the suddenness of the deaths of those who were directly exposed, the large number of people affected, and the fact that many victims returned with recurring symptoms more than 12 hours after they had been treated, meaning that the poison had settled either in their nervous systems or fat tissue.

"They all had miosis -- pinpoint pupils. They also had generalized muscle pain. There were also bad symptoms as far as their central nervous system. There were generalized seizures and some patients had partial seizures. This actually is proof that the poison was able to pass the blood-brain barrier," Abdo said. "In addition, there was acute mental confusion presented by hallucinations, delusions, personality changes, and behavioral changes."

The doctors on the scene said they were not able to pinpoint the poison because they lacked the advanced laboratory equipment needed. They took blood, hair, saliva, and urine samples, but those samples are no longer viable for testing because too much time has passed, they said.

"We took many samples, we kept them, but we cannot get them anywhere because we are in the besieged Homs area," he said. "We are not 100 percent sure what poison was used, but we can say with firm statement that it was not tear gas, that's for sure."

The State Department, in response to inquiries from The Cable, declined to comment on the secret cable from Istanbul or say whether or not chemical weapons were used in the Homs attack, but said that the administration believes Assad's chemical weapons are secure.

"I'm not going to comment on the alleged content of a classified cable," State Department Spokesman Patrick Ventrell told The Cable. "As you know, the United States closely monitors Syria's proliferation-sensitive materials and facilities, and we believe Syria's chemical weapons stockpile remains secured by the Syrian government. We have been clear that if Assad's regime makes the tragic mistake of using chemical weapons or failing to secure them, it will be held accountable."

Shifting red lines

The White House's threats to react to Assad's WMD activity have softened over time. In Obama's Aug. 20 statement, he indicated that "a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around" would trigger U.S. action.

Obama then shifted his warning to Assad about red lines in December, after intelligence reports stated that the Syrian regime had moved some precursor chemicals out of storage and mixed them, making them easier to deploy. Now, Obama's red line is that the United States will react if Syria uses these weapons.

"The use of chemical weapons is and would be totally unacceptable," Obama said Dec. 3, directing his comments at Assad. "If you make the tragic mistake of using these weapons, there will be consequences and you will be held accountable." That same day, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton added: "we are certainly planning to take action if that eventuality were to occur."

Outside analysts worry that the administration's red line may have shifted again.

"Given the fact you have that in a cable, this indicates that the Obama administration may not simply jump into the conflict because chemical agents are used," said Andrew Tabler, senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. "Assad has a much better idea now of what he can do and get away with."

"This shows that actually the red line on chemical weapons is not clear and that the regime may be able to use some chemical agents, and the response might not be immediate," he said.

On Jan. 11, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey said that the U.S. government and the international community doesn't have the capability to prevent Assad from using chemical weapons if he chooses to do so.

"The act of preventing the use of chemical weapons would be almost unachievable... because you would have to have such clarity of intelligence, you know, persistent surveillance, you'd have to actually see it before it happened, and that's -- that's unlikely, to be sure," Dempsey said. "I think that Syria must understand by now that the use of chemical weapons is unacceptable. And to that extent, it provides a deterrent value. But preventing it, if they decide to use it, I think we would be reacting."

Abdo, the Syrian neurologist, said that the doctors treating civilians inside Homs have run out of even the basic medicines they have been using to bring a level of comfort to the victims, such as the drug atropine.

"We hope this information will reach the people in the American government so maybe they will help us," he said. "If the regime does this one more time, we don't have the antidote in our hands anymore and we can't treat it. It's very urgent."
 
2013-01-15 06:09:58 PM
FTFA:""It was a chemical weapon, we are sure of that, because tear gas can't cause the death of five people," said Dr. Nashwan Abu Abdo"

Damn it, stop defending Janet Reno!!
 
2013-01-15 06:13:27 PM
So using chemical weapons, the Syrian government killed fewer people than were killed in Newtown.

And for some, this is evidence we need to go to war.

Makes total sense.
 
2013-01-15 06:31:34 PM

Aarontology: So using chemical weapons, the Syrian government killed fewer people than were killed in Newtown.

And for some, this is evidence we need to go to war.

Makes total sense.


Hell, yesterday quite a few people were adamant that we not do transport mission to help the French with Mali in maintaining a legitimate government against Al Queda.  If that's anathema to the formerly pro-war crowd, what odds are there we go into Syria?
 
2013-01-15 06:39:37 PM

GAT_00: Hell, yesterday quite a few people were adamant that we not do transport mission to help the French with Mali in maintaining a legitimate government against Al Queda. If that's anathema to the formerly pro-war crowd, what odds are there we go into Syria?


Depends on if it lingers until another GOP president is elected so they can go back to supported global war.
 
2013-01-15 06:46:56 PM

Aarontology: GAT_00: Hell, yesterday quite a few people were adamant that we not do transport mission to help the French with Mali in maintaining a legitimate government against Al Queda. If that's anathema to the formerly pro-war crowd, what odds are there we go into Syria?

Depends on if it lingers until another GOP president is elected so they can go back to supported global war.


Ya, because Obama hasn't expanded the war at all.  Or did you miss the fact that Special Operations forces have grown both in number and budget, and are deployed in 75 countries, compared with about 60 at the beginning of 2009
 
2013-01-15 06:48:10 PM

Aarontology: So using chemical weapons, the Syrian government killed fewer people than were killed in Newtown.

And for some, this is evidence we need to go to war.

Makes total sense.


Apparently the Newtown murders were faked by our government. At least according to some of the more unhinged folks on Facebook.
 
2013-01-15 07:38:09 PM

zedster: FTFA:""It was a chemical weapon, we are sure of that, because tear gas can't cause the death of five people," said Dr. Nashwan Abu Abdo"

Damn it, stop defending Janet Reno!!


Protesters in Thailand would like a word with you.  Several have been killed or severely injured by Chinese made tear gas canisters that have exploded on impact.
 
2013-01-15 07:40:09 PM
Okay, NOW were ready to kick some syrias ass!

Just waiting on the green-light from Netanyahu.
 
2013-01-15 07:58:32 PM

Krymson Tyde: Apparently the Newtown murders were faked by our government. At least according to some of the more unhinged folks on Facebook.


Yeah, I have friends in the NRA too.
 
2013-01-15 08:49:27 PM
Another land war in Asia? INCONCIEVABLE
 
2013-01-15 08:51:04 PM

netizencain: Aarontology: GAT_00: Hell, yesterday quite a few people were adamant that we not do transport mission to help the French with Mali in maintaining a legitimate government against Al Queda. If that's anathema to the formerly pro-war crowd, what odds are there we go into Syria?

Depends on if it lingers until another GOP president is elected so they can go back to supported global war.

Ya, because Obama hasn't expanded the war at all.  Or did you miss the fact that Special Operations forces have grown both in number and budget, and are deployed in 75 countries, compared with about 60 at the beginning of 2009


Just curious, but is there an actual list of countries or forces or anything? Something that shows that, "we sent Steve to go train some folks on counter-terrorism," doesn't count as "Special Operations forces deployed in that country?"
 
2013-01-15 08:51:23 PM

Krymson Tyde: Apparently the Newtown murders were faked by our government. At least according to some of the more unhinged folks on Facebook


You mean people who need a good cockpunch.

Aarontology: So using chemical weapons, the Syrian government killed fewer people than were killed in Newtown.

And for some, this is evidence we need to go to war.

Makes total sense.


No, the issue is that Syria is using a weapon that the entire world views as anathema and unthinkable to use on their worst enemies on their own citizens, even people who have done nothing to support or fight against the rebel faction.
 
2013-01-15 08:52:42 PM
quicklol.com
 
2013-01-15 08:52:50 PM

netizencain: Ya, because Obama hasn't expanded the war at all.  Or did you miss the fact that Special Operations forces have grown both in number and budget, and are deployed in 75 countries, compared with about 60 at the beginning of 2009


You do realize the mission of the United States Special Operations Command is not just kicking ass, but teaching others to kick ass too, right?
 
2013-01-15 08:53:04 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-Quinuclidinyl_benzilate

not exactly Sarin or Tabun.... or god help them VX etc
 
2013-01-15 08:54:26 PM
belsen was a gas
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-01-15 08:56:09 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com

"The language of the Great Convention is clear enough: Use of atomics chemical burn yer-ass agents against humans shall be cause for planetary obliteration of your stinking shiatty country."
 
2013-01-15 08:56:28 PM
Time to call up all those 2nd Amendmenters for their Militia service in Syria.

Am I doing it right?
 
2013-01-15 08:58:12 PM

d23: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 243x320]

"The language of the Great Convention is clear enough: Use of atomics chemical burn yer-ass agents against humans shall be cause for planetary obliteration of your stinking shiatty country."


We have to keep a secret stockpile in case we need to go renegade though.

Or if we find a hostile "other" intelligence.
 
2013-01-15 08:58:27 PM
To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?
 
2013-01-15 09:02:08 PM

Solid State Vittles: To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?


The article says what it is: Agent 15, which is or is related to 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate
 
2013-01-15 09:02:57 PM

Solid State Vittles: To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?


That's crazy talk, why, someone capable of doing that would probably want to start putting flouride in the drinking supply!
 
2013-01-15 09:03:45 PM

Omahawg: belsen was a gas



Actually, no.

With 35,000 deaths from typhus, a bit of gas might have helped, even.
 
2013-01-15 09:04:23 PM
The United Nations is a joke. How many meetings, and meetings to discuss draft documents, and double secret probations were there? It was freaken ridiculous. I gave up paying attention when Kofi Annan sacked himself in despair.

And haven't Left Wing Howler Monkeys been awfully quiet. Come on guys. Fire up! To paraphrase a couple of their own glib arguments from the past:

The Left don't care what happens in Syria because there isn't any oil there sorry, I mean because Syria isn't a good looking white female sorry, because there aren't any white Christians Republicans to screech at.

i49.tinypic.com
 
2013-01-15 09:04:34 PM
I refuse to believe this until the New York/Tel Aviv Times runs a front page Judith Miller story convincing me of it.
 
2013-01-15 09:04:56 PM

RealAmericanHero: Solid State Vittles: To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?

The article says what it is: Agent 15, which is or is related to 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate


Will that get me high?
 
2013-01-15 09:06:39 PM

scubamage: Solid State Vittles: To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?

That's crazy talk, why, someone capable of doing that would probably want to start putting flouride in the drinking supply!


BLAH!

Fluoride is harmless.

/Unless it is used in combination with chlorine, of course
 
2013-01-15 09:07:13 PM
Hm.

Is it too soon to be making a shopping list? What does Syria have that we want? They still have enough oil to make it worth our time to mess with them?
 
2013-01-15 09:09:29 PM

Amos Quito: scubamage: Solid State Vittles: To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?

That's crazy talk, why, someone capable of doing that would probably want to start putting flouride in the drinking supply!

BLAH!

Fluoride is harmless.

/Unless it is used in combination with chlorine, of course


www.american-buddha.com
 
2013-01-15 09:09:46 PM
So? Did we think they were using Nerf artillery previously?
 
2013-01-15 09:11:50 PM

Big Ramifications: And haven't Left Wing Howler Monkeys been awfully quiet. Come on guys. Fire up! To paraphrase a couple of their own glib arguments from the past:

The Left don't care what happens in Syria because there isn't any oil there sorry, I mean because Syria isn't a good looking white female sorry, because there aren't any white Christians Republicans to screech at.


That was an exceedingly stupid statement. Do you have to wear a towl around your neck to catch the drool?
 
2013-01-15 09:16:25 PM

BronyMedic: Big Ramifications: And haven't Left Wing Howler Monkeys been awfully quiet. Come on guys. Fire up! To paraphrase a couple of their own glib arguments from the past:

The Left don't care what happens in Syria because there isn't any oil there sorry, I mean because Syria isn't a good looking white female sorry, because there aren't any white Christians Republicans to screech at.

That was an exceedingly stupid statement. Do you have to wear a towl around your neck to catch the drool?


www4.parinc.com

It works! It actually works! Marty!
 
2013-01-15 09:16:43 PM
But chemical weapons are illegal and we all know that banning the things makes the use of them impossibru... doesn't it?
 
2013-01-15 09:17:33 PM

Big Ramifications: The United Nations is a joke. How many meetings, and meetings to discuss draft documents, and double secret probations were there? It was freaken ridiculous. I gave up paying attention when Kofi Annan sacked himself in despair.

And haven't Left Wing Howler Monkeys been awfully quiet. Come on guys. Fire up! To paraphrase a couple of their own glib arguments from the past:

The Left don't care what happens in Syria because there isn't any oil there sorry, I mean because Syria isn't a good looking white female sorry, because there aren't any white Christians Republicans to screech at.

[i49.tinypic.com image 319x212]


There's plenty on Fox News.
 
2013-01-15 09:18:03 PM

Amos Quito: scubamage: Solid State Vittles: To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?

That's crazy talk, why, someone capable of doing that would probably want to start putting flouride in the drinking supply!

BLAH!

Fluoride is harmless.

/Unless it is used in combination with chlorine, of course


Or hydrogen... Then it can etch glass. Or dissolve bodies.
community.us.playstation.com
 
2013-01-15 09:18:05 PM
Looks like they crossed the red line.

They apparently don't fear getting a sharply worded letter from the administration along with a snippy comment during a news conference.

They are fearless.
 
2013-01-15 09:22:18 PM
Yay. Syria. Another country just like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc, that I would just let out a big "meh" if everyone died. Can't we just focus on making America better now? We kinda have some problems of our own to focus on, and even with some of these countries with "nuclear" weapons wouldn't last 30 minutes if they actually launched anything at us...
 
2013-01-15 09:24:04 PM

mrlewish: Time to call up all those 2nd Amendmenters for their Militia service in Syria.

Am I doing it right?


Yup. As a resident FARK gun nut I agree that if I want to keep my guns I should be prepared to use them in defense of our country if called upon.
 
2013-01-15 09:24:34 PM
From the picture in TFA:

"Syria's Snowball's Chance in Hell Truce."


/FTFT
 
2013-01-15 09:28:12 PM

Solid State Vittles: RealAmericanHero: Solid State Vittles: To be fair, I would need to know the chemical before I would make that leap into calling it a "weapon." What if Syria was just making it rain fluoxetine, lysergic acid diethylamide, and tadalifil on its citizenry?

The article says what it is: Agent 15, which is or is related to 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate

Will that get me high?


FTFA: "The symptoms of an incapacitating agent are temporary. If someone is exposed to BZ, they are likely to be confused, perhaps to hallucinate," said Amy Smithson, a senior fellow with the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies. "While it is not good news that a chemical agent of any kind may have been used in the Syrian conflict, this Agent 15 is certainly on the less harmful end of the spectrum of chemical warfare agents believed to be in the Syrian arsenal."

possibly?
 
2013-01-15 09:30:08 PM

The Angry Hand of God: Yay. Syria. Another country just like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc, that I would just let out a big "meh" if everyone died. Can't we just focus on making America better now? We kinda have some problems of our own to focus on, and even with some of these countries with "nuclear" weapons wouldn't last 30 minutes if they actually launched anything at us...


You sound like Old testament God
 
2013-01-15 09:30:22 PM

ShawnDoc: zedster: FTFA:""It was a chemical weapon, we are sure of that, because tear gas can't cause the death of five people," said Dr. Nashwan Abu Abdo"

Damn it, stop defending Janet Reno!!

Protesters in Thailand would like a word with you.  Several have been killed or severely injured by Chinese made tear gas canisters that have exploded on impact.


It wasn't the tear gas, it was the China-quality canisters. Those canisters were made in the same country as exploding manhole covers, exploding toilets and exploding shark tanks.
 
2013-01-15 09:32:32 PM

frenchcheesemuseum: OH hell is right make me some tea.


Make your own damn tea. This is no time for drinking tea anyway.
 
2013-01-15 09:33:17 PM
Can we just skip this war this time?
 
2013-01-15 09:34:13 PM

Igor Jakovsky: The Angry Hand of God: Yay. Syria. Another country just like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc, that I would just let out a big "meh" if everyone died. Can't we just focus on making America better now? We kinda have some problems of our own to focus on, and even with some of these countries with "nuclear" weapons wouldn't last 30 minutes if they actually launched anything at us...

You sound like Old testament God


Igor Jakovsky: The Angry Hand of God: Yay. Syria. Another country just like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc, that I would just let out a big "meh" if everyone died. Can't we just focus on making America better now? We kinda have some problems of our own to focus on, and even with some of these countries with "nuclear" weapons wouldn't last 30 minutes if they actually launched anything at us...

You sound like Old testament God


"One day Samuel said to Saul, "It was the Lord who told me to anoint you as king of his people, Israel. Now listen to this message from the Lord! 2 This is what the Lord of Heaven's Armies has declared: I have decided to settle accounts with the nation of Amalek for opposing Israel when they came from Egypt. 3 Now go and completely destroy[a] the entire Amalekite nation-men, women, children, babies, cattle, sheep, goats, camels, and donkeys.""

God is love.
 
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