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(io9)   Nineteen-year-old activist makes life hell for Louisiana's creationists   (io9.com) divider line 416
    More: Hero, Zack Kopplin, Louisiana, Education Act, science books, Discovery Institute, scientific inquiry, AlterNet, Southeastern Louisiana University  
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34269 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jan 2013 at 9:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-15 10:49:51 PM

SkinnyHead: I guess people who oppose academic freedom and support censorship would see this young man as a hero.  People who support academic freedom and freedom of thought probably don't.


i1240.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-15 10:52:20 PM
i154.photobucket.com

TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!
 
2013-01-15 10:52:53 PM
School vouchers, he argues, unconstitutionally fund the teaching of creationism because many of the schools in these programs are private fundamentalist religious schools who are teaching creationism"


I think he needs to take a little constitutional history. Allowing religious schools to use voucher money is NOT unconstitutional in any way.

First of all, a govt entering into a contract with a private religious organization is not the same as making laws establishing a religion.

Second, even if such a restriction existed, allowing people to use the tax money for the school of their choice is analogous to getting a tax deduction for charitable giving: its individuals who are exercising choice.

Yes we know that liberals and Democrats hate it when ppl exercise choices. They want a locked down buttoned up world where curricula are dictated by the grand Pooh Bah.

But here's the thing: its possible to make sure that parents are informed and take action without declaring individual expression to be unconstitutional.
 
2013-01-15 10:54:25 PM
Here's a bit of wisdom, folks:

You can never win a debate against somebody who is too stupid to realize they've been refuted.

That's why I never debate Cretinists in the real world, because it's usually one-on-one and a waste of time. On Fark, on the other hand, there's plenty of intelligent lurkers who might be swayed to the Evolution side through reasonable debate, so then it's worth the effort...
 
2013-01-15 10:55:21 PM
I'm an athiest who thinks Zack is probubly Jewish with a bone to pick whithin the WASP world he did not choose to be born to in. He should probubly grow a pair and move to Israel to 'fight' the Palestinians, instead of stirring up discourse whithin the world he hates.
 
2013-01-15 10:56:49 PM
As someone who IS religious AND a teacher I say good for him.

I'll sign up and subscribe to his newsletter!!!
I absolutely HATE when religion shoe-horns its way into the classroom where it doesn't belong.
Keep religion out of my science classroom, and away from my carnivorous dinosaurs who freaking ate meat ALWAYS!!
 
2013-01-15 10:56:57 PM

ambassador_ahab: Kevin72: AND that the world is only 6000 years old?

They really do.  I had a professor last term that, while excellent at teaching the subject he taught, couldn't help but occasionally throw in some of his "worldview opinions" which included that and other batshiat-crazy ideas.  I can say with 100% certainty that he actually believed all that stuff.

He also once said that slavery the way the US did it was terrible and wrong, but slavery the way the bible talked about it was wonderful and a blessing form God.


CSB. When and where I grew up in the boonies of New Brunswick (Canada, not NJ) we had Protestants, Catholics and the odd clan of JVs, Pentecosts, and a few families that were, well, not really athiest but didn't much give a damn one way or the other. Most of the Protestants were a mix of finely divided Baptists most of whom would have been at a loss to describe the doctrinal differences between them. Anyway the mind set was very strange. Bible was literally true, superficially fundamentalist. It really didn't matter because they figured the whole 6000 year age of the Earth was true, but figured that God, for his own reasons which He didn't chose to explain, created everything as if it really were as old as science said it was. Having gotten that out of the way, they were perfectly happy to take advantage of science etc. and to maintain personal faiths at the same time without dwelling on the issues. Religon was for Sunday school and church. Then shortly before I graduated HS and bailed, the Southern Baptist influence started to grow and everythings been going to Hell ever since...
 
2013-01-15 10:57:06 PM
Zach's a good guy from a good family. He hasn't been put up to anything and he makes sense. Some of the politicians are mind numbingly stupid.
 
2013-01-15 11:00:09 PM

Tyranicle: I'm an athiest who thinks Zack is probubly Jewish with a bone to pick whithin the WASP world he did not choose to be born to in. He should probubly grow a pair and move to Israel to 'fight' the Palestinians, instead of stirring up discourse whithin the world he hates.


You know who else blamed the Jews?
 
2013-01-15 11:02:52 PM
http://xkcd.com/154/

also,

averageretardedcreationists.jpg
 
2013-01-15 11:03:44 PM

doyner: Tyranicle: I'm an athiest who thinks Zack is probubly Jewish with a bone to pick whithin the WASP world he did not choose to be born to in. He should probubly grow a pair and move to Israel to 'fight' the Palestinians, instead of stirring up discourse whithin the world he hates.

You know who else blamed the Jews?


Stalin.
 
2013-01-15 11:05:19 PM

Psycat: Here's a bit of wisdom, folks:

You can never win a debate against somebody who is too stupid to realize they've been refuted.

That's why I never debate Cretinists in the real world, because it's usually one-on-one and a waste of time. On Fark, on the other hand, there's plenty of intelligent lurkers who might be swayed to the Evolution side through reasonable debate, so then it's worth the effort...


Mark Twain said it better...



1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-15 11:06:16 PM

Shirley Ujest: This young man is a better man than 100 % of the Republicans in the House and Senate who are twice his age.


You mean four times, right?
 
2013-01-15 11:06:37 PM

Psycat: You can never win a debate against somebody who is too stupid to realize they've been refuted.


I never intend to win a debate but rather inform an audience and help inoculate them against the bullsh*t being spewed opposite me. Answer an accusation or question in such a manner you are never defensive but correcting egregious mistakes for the sake of those listening or reading, leaving no question to the ignorance of the opposition.
 
2013-01-15 11:06:55 PM

Tyranicle: I'm an athiest who thinks Zack is probubly Jewish with a bone to pick whithin the WASP world he did not choose to be born to in. He should probubly grow a pair and move to Israel to 'fight' the Palestinians, instead of stirring up discourse whithin the world he hates.


I'm an atheist who thinks that your post is the dumbest thing posted in this thread.

And consider upgrading to a browser with spellcheck.
 
2013-01-15 11:09:36 PM

Vangor: Psycat: You can never win a debate against somebody who is too stupid to realize they've been refuted.

I never intend to win a debate but rather inform an audience and help inoculate them against the bullsh*t being spewed opposite me. Answer an accusation or question in such a manner you are never defensive but correcting egregious mistakes for the sake of those listening or reading, leaving no question to the ignorance of the opposition.


Agreed. The only time to debate any fanatic or ignoramus is in a public forum like Fark because the ultimate goal is to win converts from the pool of undecided lurkers...
 
2013-01-15 11:10:58 PM

IntertubeUser: Tyranicle: I'm an athiest who thinks Zack is probubly Jewish with a bone to pick whithin the WASP world he did not choose to be born to in. He should probubly grow a pair and move to Israel to 'fight' the Palestinians, instead of stirring up discourse whithin the world he hates.

I'm an atheist who thinks that your post is the dumbest thing posted in this thread.

And consider upgrading to a browser with spellcheck.


On a mobile. No spellcheck.
 
2013-01-15 11:12:16 PM

Animatronik: I think he needs to take a little constitutional history. Allowing religious schools to use voucher money is NOT unconstitutional in any way.

First of all, a govt entering into a contract with a private religious organization is not the same as making laws establishing a religion.

Second, even if such a restriction existed, allowing people to use the tax money for the school of their choice is analogous to getting a tax deduction for charitable giving: its individuals who are exercising choice.


Wait, so you're saying that it's ok for my tax dollars to go to a religious school?

Because that's basically what these voucher programs do.

Animatronik: Yes we know that liberals and Democrats hate it when ppl exercise choices. They want a locked down buttoned up world where curricula are dictated by the grand Pooh Bah.


There's that projection again. Wake me up when Texas stops rewriting their curriculum because it's "too liberal" to them.
 
2013-01-15 11:12:45 PM

Mugato: My book says that there is an all powerful Force that surrounds us, penetrates us and binds the galaxy together. Life creates it and makes it grow. And a powerful ally it is. And unlike these other theories, I have video of it. But you don't see me trying to force it in kid's textbooks.


I'd still rather have a blaster at my side.
 
2013-01-15 11:17:57 PM
<I>He also has his eyes set on vouchers. After an Alternet story came out about a school in the Louisiana voucher program <a data-cke-saved-href="http://www.alternet.org/story/155926/the_loch_nes s_monster_is_real%3B_ the_kkk_is_good%3A_the_shocking_content_of_publicly_paid_for_christian _school_textbooks">teaching that the Loch Ness Monster was real and disproved evolution, Kopplin looked deeper into the program and found that this wasn't just one school, but at least 19 other schools, too. </I>

I think I just found the new textbook maker:

www.weiserantiquarian.com

/Read the book!
 
2013-01-15 11:18:48 PM

Raharu: SkinnyHead: I guess people who oppose academic freedom and support censorship would see this young man as a hero.  People who support academic freedom and freedom of thought probably don't.

Creationism isn't science. It's mythology and fan fiction.
Really really bad fan fiction.


To be fair, fan fiction needs to be in the top 5% to be "really bad".
 
2013-01-15 11:23:25 PM

GoldSpider: If only oppressed Christians had a place where they could meet and discuss their beliefs on how the world was made.


I dunno. I figure the tax burden on such a place would kill it outright.
 
2013-01-15 11:26:37 PM

BunkoSquad: This kid's awesome.


Yep. Definite respect.
 
2013-01-15 11:27:30 PM

Tyranicle: IntertubeUser: Tyranicle: I'm an athiest who thinks Zack is probubly Jewish with a bone to pick whithin the WASP world he did not choose to be born to in. He should probubly grow a pair and move to Israel to 'fight' the Palestinians, instead of stirring up discourse whithin the world he hates.

I'm an atheist who thinks that your post is the dumbest thing posted in this thread.

And consider upgrading to a browser with spellcheck.

On a mobile. No spellcheck.


I think all of us here are deeply surprised that you know how to use a mobile phone.
 
2013-01-15 11:29:00 PM
Holoy shiat F*$

Did US get hit with the stupid stick and nobody recovered, ?

My I suggest build a wall all the way around, and make sure anybody trying to get into the real world get droned
then Im able to sleep safe,

Only worry about the over the top Jews and muslims who from what it looks like are on par with the intellectual development that you guys look to have..

Whats next God made AR15 and you only die from gun if you a bad guy, like rape sperm get rejected
 
2013-01-15 11:29:28 PM

4seasons85!: It should teach general beliefs about the major world religions and the beliefs of athiests. that there are those who do not accept any of these beliefs (called atheists).


FIFY

Not accepting someone's claim is not 'a belief'.
 
2013-01-15 11:30:20 PM
"Just search creationism on Monster Jobs or Career Builder and tell me how many creationist jobs you find,"

That's bullshait, there's lots of creationist jobs, they just aren't called that, but go by more conventional names like: night-shift stockman, gas-station attendant, grill attendant, Costco greeter.
 
2013-01-15 11:31:09 PM
Young man, you make me very proud. Carry on with your bad self!
 
2013-01-15 11:37:50 PM

Equilibrist: FARK needs a Creationist tab.


It would need Jesus riding a dinosaur if that would fit.
 
2013-01-15 11:37:54 PM

Nabb1: SkinnyHead: I guess people who oppose academic freedom and support censorship would see this young man as a hero.  People who support academic freedom and freedom of thought probably don't.


i.imgur.com

You're not fooling anyone.
 
2013-01-15 11:38:29 PM

bingo the psych-o: What is it about the Abrahamic religions that promotes such willful ignorance? Can someone explain it to me?


Jews are not stupid...
 
2013-01-15 11:40:05 PM

Mordos: [www.dudelol.com image 477x302]


Do you expect me to believe I am a descendant from some flightless manicotti?
 
2013-01-15 11:40:17 PM

spidermilk: My first thought was "Please let this kid not be an asshole." and then I read the article and he sounds like a total non-asshole. Just calmly and semi-quietly doing what he thinks is right. And not just to prove that he is smarter than him, but because he wants Louisianans to be successful.

The other day two church chicks came to my door and I thought "Ok, stay cool, don't be an asshole" and they gave me a little pamplet and told me where their church was. I said "Great, thanks! have a good one." and they didn't turn around to leave. Instead, the chick goes "Let me ask you- if you died today are you SURE-" and right there I rudely cut her off and said 'I'm an athiest so I don't believe in god." and she just said "WELL THERE IS A GOD!" and I said "ok, we all have our own beliefs- bye!"

and then I felt bad the rest of the day like I should have just said thanks and bye again instead of getting made and freaking her out.


Church Chicks. Photos please. I already have the Church Lady on my alter, so perhaps some hot nuns in lingerie. TYIA.

/fap fap fap
 
2013-01-15 11:40:23 PM

Animatronik: School vouchers, he argues, unconstitutionally fund the teaching of creationism because many of the schools in these programs are private fundamentalist religious schools who are teaching creationism"


I think he needs to take a little constitutional history. Allowing religious schools to use voucher money is NOT unconstitutional in any way.

First of all, a govt entering into a contract with a private religious organization is not the same as making laws establishing a religion.

Second, even if such a restriction existed, allowing people to use the tax money for the school of their choice is analogous to getting a tax deduction for charitable giving: its individuals who are exercising choice.

Yes we know that liberals and Democrats hate it when ppl exercise choices. They want a locked down buttoned up world where curricula are dictated by the grand Pooh Bah.

But here's the thing: its possible to make sure that parents are informed and take action without declaring individual expression to be unconstitutional.


The issue is what is being done by teachers in public schools as well, in the "spirit" of this new law.

What folks wish to teach in a private school, that is up to them. When it bleeds into the public schools, where there IS no real choice in the matter, then it becomes an issue of the separation of church and state. Mind you, vouchers ARE sort of an issue, in that essentially, folks want public dollars to fund a religious institution, when there are perfectly good public schools in their area. Vouchers are a sort of bait and switch ploy to get public dollars to fund a private school education, without all those pesky rules and gobbledygook that bind accredited schools. That is a separate issue though, I will agree with you, in principle.

The main thrust of the issue though, is the circumvention of Louisiana's public schools' curriculum. And using those public schools as a rallying point to teach religious views, as an "alternative" to actual science. That is worth shedding some light upon. The use of vouchers, that's something else entirely, and vouchers are way of sliding public dollars into private schools' hands, and it is, at its heart, a very shady way of sliding public dollars into private hands that have no business with it.
 
2013-01-15 11:40:25 PM

Tyranicle: IntertubeUser: Tyranicle: I'm an athiest who thinks Zack is probubly Jewish with a bone to pick whithin the WASP world he did not choose to be born to in. He should probubly grow a pair and move to Israel to 'fight' the Palestinians, instead of stirring up discourse whithin the world he hates.

I'm an atheist who thinks that your post is the dumbest thing posted in this thread.

And consider upgrading to a browser with spellcheck.

On a mobile. No spellcheck.


This reply to that post about your hilariously myopic post is doubleplus funny. Thank you for the laugh. Still though, you should be mad as hell that fact is tossed out for myth and legend in a classroom setting too. Everyone should be, especially the teachers.
 
2013-01-15 11:43:35 PM
Never understood the "This vs That", "Either/Or", "Science vs Religion" battle.

In the research labs I've worked in, many of us had practicing religious beliefs, and yet had no trouble separating those views from the demands of successful peer-review scientific research.

Science = measure

Religion = belief.

Being religious is first of all about how you live and how you treat others. Do this correctly, and there is no creation/evolution issue, since one is by definition un-provable, and therefore not science, and the other is essentially unobservable (ever see a fly mutate into an alligator?) in any human time-frame.

Other than being great fodder for philosophical debate, we certainly won't answer either in a once-and-for-all fashion, and only a fool would deny the benefits of engineering research, medical research, etc.
 
2013-01-15 11:44:17 PM
images1.myreviewer.co.uk

If I had this happen to me in school, I would hope I had the guts to show that teacher all the respect they deserve: none.

There is no cause for this behavior by a supposed role model.
 
2013-01-15 11:45:18 PM
Evolution is just another religion.
 
2013-01-15 11:45:54 PM

the_chief: Evolution is just another religion.


No it isn't.
 
2013-01-15 11:49:06 PM

cameroncrazy1984: the_chief: Evolution is just another religion.

No it isn't.


You can't prove it isn't.
 
2013-01-15 11:49:13 PM

Acharne: Tyranicle: IntertubeUser: Tyranicle: I'm an athiest who thinks Zack is probubly Jewish with a bone to pick whithin the WASP world he did not choose to be born to in. He should probubly grow a pair and move to Israel to 'fight' the Palestinians, instead of stirring up discourse whithin the world he hates.

I'm an atheist who thinks that your post is the dumbest thing posted in this thread.

And consider upgrading to a browser with spellcheck.

On a mobile. No spellcheck.

This reply to that post about your hilariously myopic post is doubleplus funny. Thank you for the laugh. Still though, you should be mad as hell that fact is tossed out for myth and legend in a classroom setting too. Everyone should be, especially the teachers.


Moving on to Reddit, where the Jew bosses at least commit suicide.
 
2013-01-15 11:53:39 PM

the_chief: cameroncrazy1984: the_chief: Evolution is just another religion.

No it isn't.

You can't prove it isn't.


Yes, I can. Evolution is testable. Religion is not.

/science, it works.
 
2013-01-15 11:53:46 PM

cameroncrazy1984: the_chief: Evolution is just another religion.

No it isn't.


You aren't going to fall for this obvious a line are you?
 
2013-01-15 11:55:16 PM

the_chief: Evolution is just another religion.


You're just another uninspired troll.
 
2013-01-15 11:55:22 PM

hubiestubert: cameroncrazy1984: the_chief: Evolution is just another religion.

No it isn't.

You aren't going to fall for this obvious a line are you?


Yep!
 
2013-01-16 12:02:07 AM
2013 and people are arguing about evolution

I tell them gravity is a theory. go test it.

do it. do it
 
2013-01-16 12:02:32 AM
The point of the public education system is to prepare our future generations to compete effectively in the global workforce. Creationism does not contribute towards this. It's actually damaging towards this goal. Creationism, also known as "Intelligent Design", is nothing more than a desperate attempt by some religious christians to force theology into public schools. Church attendances are down. Crucifix-monogrammed pocketbooks are thinner than they used to be. They're worried that they're becoming increasingly irrelevant. This whole schtick is being pushed because they think if they can start pushing baseless credulity and lack of critical thinking skills onto other people's children earlier, that they stand a better chance of dragging them to church later on in life. It's no secret or grand epiphany that people who are poorer and less educated tend to be religious. But I think it's beyond despicable that these people are intentionally trying to subvert the public education system in the name of jebus at the cost of their future quality of life.

Fark these people.
 
2013-01-16 12:02:56 AM
Quick rant:

Do you Cretinists think you're actually going to get rid of evolution? You might get cretinism taught in Shiatkick, Alabammy or some other school district near the bottom of the barrel but you will NEVER remove evolution from mainstream science ever. Evolution is the key theory that holds together ALL life sciences from anthropology to zoology and it's basic validity hasn't been challenged by mainstream scientists* since the 1880s. I doubt that you could burn enough scientists at the stake to ever get them to give up evolution. And, in the very unlikely event that mainstream science abandons evolution, it will be for another theory that's just as naturalistic. So, dream on, flat-earthers...

*People who have degrees from accredited colleges like CalTech and MIT. Charlatans with degrees from the Tupelo Correspondence School of Cretinism and Clam-Digging don't count as mainstream scientists.
 
2013-01-16 12:03:31 AM

Glenechocreek: queezyweezel: FTFA:He also has his eyes set on vouchers. After an Alternet story came out about a school in the Louisiana voucher program teaching that the Loch Ness Monster was real and disproved evolution, Kopplin looked deeper into the program and found that this wasn't just one school, but at least 19 other schools, too.Oh. My. God......that's scary. And I'm not talking about a possible monster.

Are you trying to say it's not real?

[l2.yimg.com image 630x558]


this kid is just crazy-crazy. nessie is reelz@1!!eleven
 
2013-01-16 12:06:43 AM
This kid evolved some huge brass ones.
 
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