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(White House)   Link for the Whitehouse.gov petition to rule NY's draconian new gun law unconstitutional. Ensuing political arguments to the right   (petitions.whitehouse.gov ) divider line
    More: PSA, political argument  
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1522 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Jan 2013 at 1:52 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-15 01:05:09 PM  
I don't think I'd go as far as calling it "draconian" but it does seem to be a lot of posturing for political points at the expense of legal and law abiding gun owners without actually improving safety for the public at large.
 
2013-01-15 01:07:15 PM  
Didn't realize the President had that power.
 
2013-01-15 01:08:16 PM  
They want the President to rule a state law unconstitutional? I suspect these people have a poor grasp of... well, probably a lot of things.
 
2013-01-15 01:11:17 PM  
Why not read the submission before you comment?
 
2013-01-15 01:11:36 PM  
Then the supreme court will overturn it. It will never take effect, the NRA will file a lawsuit minute one, it will go up to the appeals court and eventually be handed back to them to redraft a realistic law. This process will take a couple years. If it even gets to that stage since there is already precedent in  DC vs Heller..
 
2013-01-15 01:12:19 PM  

kxs401: They want the President to rule a state law unconstitutional? I suspect these people have a poor grasp of... well, probably a lot of things.


Including in this case the 10th Amendment.
 
2013-01-15 01:13:47 PM  

clydedog: Why not read the submission before you comment?


"we petition the obama administration to: Rule the "NY SAFE ACT" to be UNCONSTITUTIONAL!"

Okay, I've read it. Having done so, I have two immediate thoughts:

1. Didn't realize the President had that power.
2. They want the President to rule a state law unconstitutional? I suspect these people have a poor grasp of... well, probably a lot of things.
 
2013-01-15 01:13:52 PM  
It would be kinda funny of Obama came out and said, "I declare this law unconstitutional!"
 
2013-01-15 01:15:19 PM  

JerseyTim: It would be kinda funny of Obama came out and said, "I declare this law unconstitutional!"


It would be even better if he said "why I do declare! This law is unconstitutional!"
 
2013-01-15 01:16:57 PM  
"I think the President should unilaterally nullify New York's gun laws because that's just the states' rights-respecting, small government America needs!"
 
2013-01-15 01:18:51 PM  
So...I'm not seeing the issue with NY's proposed law.
 
2013-01-15 01:19:36 PM  

kxs401: JerseyTim: It would be kinda funny of Obama came out and said, "I declare this law unconstitutional!"

It would be even better if he said "why I do declare! This law is unconstitutional!"


Especially if he put on one of those Colonel Sanders ties.
 
2013-01-15 01:23:09 PM  

kxs401: JerseyTim: It would be kinda funny of Obama came out and said, "I declare this law unconstitutional!"

It would be even better if he said "why I do declare! This law is unconstitutional!"


Please start a petition asking him to do that.  I'll gladly sign it.
 
2013-01-15 01:27:23 PM  

kxs401: JerseyTim: It would be kinda funny of Obama came out and said, "I declare this law unconstitutional!"

It would be even better if he said "why I do declare! This law is unconstitutional!"


He needs to wear a hoop skirt and be fanning himself at the time.
 
2013-01-15 01:29:33 PM  
Gun laws: "The state doesn't have the right to do this!"

Endorsing one religion in courts and schools and gov't buildings: "The state has the right to do this!"
 
2013-01-15 01:29:38 PM  

sweetpeteman: Didn't realize the President had that power.

 
2013-01-15 01:31:58 PM  

themindiswatching: So...I'm not seeing the issue with NY's proposed law.


How many rifles with pistol grips are used in crimes in New York?


/It's a pointless law, and will do nothing to make people safer or cut down on crime.  Criminals use handguns with 6-8 round magazines.  Why?  Because that's whats cheap and popular.
 
2013-01-15 01:33:16 PM  

kronicfeld: clydedog: Why not read the submission before you comment?

"we petition the obama administration to: Rule the "NY SAFE ACT" to be UNCONSTITUTIONAL!"

Okay, I've read it. Having done so, I have two immediate thoughts:

1. Didn't realize the President had that power.
2. They want the President to rule a state law unconstitutional? I suspect these people have a poor grasp of... well, probably a lot of things.


It's a trap! They want Obama to use unconstitutional executive power so they can petition the White House to impeach Obama.
 
2013-01-15 01:37:05 PM  
Derp.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-01-15 01:42:44 PM  

queezyweezel: themindiswatching: So...I'm not seeing the issue with NY's proposed law.

How many rifles with pistol grips are used in crimes in New York?


/It's a pointless law, and will do nothing to make people safer or cut down on crime.  Criminals use handguns with 6-8 round magazines.  Why?  Because that's whats cheap and popular.


So I guess that Lanza guy wasn't a criminal?  Or Sideshow Bob?
 
2013-01-15 01:43:17 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: It's a trap! They want Obama to use unconstitutional executive power so they can petition the White House to impeach Obama.


Stupid like a fox!
 
2013-01-15 01:47:52 PM  
THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY
theforvm.org
 
2013-01-15 01:49:10 PM  

kxs401: "why I do declare! This law is unconstitutional!"


Team "Foghorn LegHorn"
 
2013-01-15 01:54:55 PM  
"This legislation will protect New Yorkers by reducing the availability of assault weapons and deterring the criminal use of firearms whilepromoting a fair, consistent and efficient method of ensuring thatsportsmen and other legal gun owners have full enjoyment of the gunsto which they are entitled."

Well you might as well put us in camps, amirite?
 
2013-01-15 01:57:23 PM  

LasersHurt: "This legislation will protect New Yorkers by reducing the availability of assault weapons and deterring the criminal use of firearms whilepromoting a fair, consistent and efficient method of ensuring thatsportsmen and other legal gun owners have full enjoyment of the gunsto which they are entitled."

Well you might as well put us in camps, amirite?


FEMA homobortion camps run by ACORN.
 
2013-01-15 01:59:32 PM  
I guess "States' Rights!" are only relevant when they advance conservative agendas (and often extreme ones).

/Constitution, balance of powers, how do they all work again? The Constitution fetishists would like it explained to them.
 
2013-01-15 01:59:50 PM  

vpb: queezyweezel: themindiswatching: So...I'm not seeing the issue with NY's proposed law.

How many rifles with pistol grips are used in crimes in New York?


/It's a pointless law, and will do nothing to make people safer or cut down on crime.  Criminals use handguns with 6-8 round magazines.  Why?  Because that's whats cheap and popular.

So I guess that Lanza guy wasn't a criminal?  Or Sideshow Bob?


2 people whos combined efforts killed less than 50 people...How many were killed last year with handguns? 10-12 THOUSAND?  Do you see why this is all pointless conjecture aimed at running for office or some other political gain?
 
2013-01-15 02:00:06 PM  
States rights biatches!
 
2013-01-15 02:02:44 PM  
But but states rights
 
2013-01-15 02:04:31 PM  

kxs401: They want the President to rule a state law unconstitutional? I suspect these people have a poor grasp of... well, probably a lot of things.


Republicans haven't been about state's rights since...the 80s? If I'm being generous?
 
2013-01-15 02:05:32 PM  
I see it's a day ending in y so there must be another stupid petition to whitehouse.gov.
 
2013-01-15 02:05:43 PM  
These people are quite passionate and infromed about the constitution.

Between this and the insistence that the president take over the congressional role of passing a budget, I have to assume that teabaggers want Obama to be a dictator.
 
2013-01-15 02:07:18 PM  

hutchkc: I see it's a day ending in y so there must be another stupid petition to whitehouse.gov.


Basically.

They bring out the crazy from both sides and bring their LULZ with them.
 
2013-01-15 02:08:03 PM  
You'll notice there is nothing there regarding compensation. They are going to have to specially manufacture these new 7 round (arbitrary number) magazines, and if you want to fire your guns you need to buy them. Goes to unlawful seizure, which will sink this in court. Kneejerk bills usully wind up being struck down.
 
2013-01-15 02:09:15 PM  

queezyweezel: vpb: queezyweezel: themindiswatching: So...I'm not seeing the issue with NY's proposed law.

How many rifles with pistol grips are used in crimes in New York?


/It's a pointless law, and will do nothing to make people safer or cut down on crime.  Criminals use handguns with 6-8 round magazines.  Why?  Because that's whats cheap and popular.

So I guess that Lanza guy wasn't a criminal?  Or Sideshow Bob?

2 people whos combined efforts killed less than 50 people...How many were killed last year with handguns? 10-12 THOUSAND?  Do you see why this is all pointless conjecture aimed at running for office or some other political gain?


Well, if its only going to save a few dozen lives then fark it.
 
2013-01-15 02:10:01 PM  
The president is only an overreaching dictator when he says things we don't like, apparently.
 
2013-01-15 02:11:05 PM  

queezyweezel: vpb: queezyweezel: themindiswatching: So...I'm not seeing the issue with NY's proposed law.

How many rifles with pistol grips are used in crimes in New York?


/It's a pointless law, and will do nothing to make people safer or cut down on crime.  Criminals use handguns with 6-8 round magazines.  Why?  Because that's whats cheap and popular.

So I guess that Lanza guy wasn't a criminal?  Or Sideshow Bob?

2 people whos combined efforts killed less than 50 people...


Maybe it's just me but I find that offender to victim ratio unacceptable. What's the offender to victim ratio in those other 10-12 thousand handgun crimes you mention? Would seem to be helpful info if we were to compare like to like.
 
2013-01-15 02:11:25 PM  

queezyweezel: vpb: queezyweezel: themindiswatching: So...I'm not seeing the issue with NY's proposed law.

How many rifles with pistol grips are used in crimes in New York?


/It's a pointless law, and will do nothing to make people safer or cut down on crime.  Criminals use handguns with 6-8 round magazines.  Why?  Because that's whats cheap and popular.

So I guess that Lanza guy wasn't a criminal?  Or Sideshow Bob?

2 people whos combined efforts killed less than 50 people...How many were killed last year with handguns? 10-12 THOUSAND?  Do you see why this is all pointless conjecture aimed at running for office or some other political gain?


10-12 thousand vs. how many perpetrators? I understand your disagreement with the legislation but I'm willing to guess the ratio battle is not one you're going to win if its 1:25 you're using as your basis.
 
2013-01-15 02:14:05 PM  

LucklessWonder: queezyweezel: vpb: queezyweezel: themindiswatching: So...I'm not seeing the issue with NY's proposed law.

How many rifles with pistol grips are used in crimes in New York?


/It's a pointless law, and will do nothing to make people safer or cut down on crime.  Criminals use handguns with 6-8 round magazines.  Why?  Because that's whats cheap and popular.

So I guess that Lanza guy wasn't a criminal?  Or Sideshow Bob?

2 people whos combined efforts killed less than 50 people...

Maybe it's just me but I find that offender to victim ratio unacceptable. What's the offender to victim ratio in those other 10-12 thousand handgun crimes you mention? Would seem to be helpful info if we were to compare like to like.


I dont know anyone killed by a gun, but i have had 4 friends die from being killed by drunk drivers. Wheres the alcohol laws that will prevent these unnecessary deaths? how many alcohol deaths are enough before we do something as a society to prevent them? How primitive is our thoughts that we let people legally drive to get legally drunk to illegally drive home?
 
2013-01-15 02:15:23 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: These people are quite passionate and infromed about the constitution.

Between this and the insistence that the president take over the congressional role of passing a budget, I have to assume that teabaggers want Obama to be a dictator.


They're naturally authoritarians, they just don't like it when their guy isn't the one lording over them.
 
2013-01-15 02:16:32 PM  

LucklessWonder: queezyweezel: vpb: queezyweezel: themindiswatching: So...I'm not seeing the issue with NY's proposed law.

How many rifles with pistol grips are used in crimes in New York?


/It's a pointless law, and will do nothing to make people safer or cut down on crime.  Criminals use handguns with 6-8 round magazines.  Why?  Because that's whats cheap and popular.

So I guess that Lanza guy wasn't a criminal?  Or Sideshow Bob?

2 people whos combined efforts killed less than 50 people...

Maybe it's just me but I find that offender to victim ratio unacceptable. What's the offender to victim ratio in those other 10-12 thousand handgun crimes you mention? Would seem to be helpful info if we were to compare like to like.


Did you already forget about Virginia Tech?
 
2013-01-15 02:17:51 PM  
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS BAD! STATE'S RIGHTS!

Wait, the state just passed a law restricting gun sales?


WE NEED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO TELL THAT STATE TO STOP IT!
 
2013-01-15 02:18:06 PM  
Went through the New York Post article for this. Here's my take for each provision mentioned in the article. If my understandings of each provision are inaccurate, please find me the accurate source. NYP article

"The legislation, called the New York Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement Act, or NYSAFE, now defines an assault weapon as any having detachable magazines and one military-style feature, instead of two."

-Not particularly meaningful, as "military-style features" are more often than not effective measures of a weapon's "lethality".

"It also includes a ban on all magazines that hold more than seven rounds, and bans direct Internet ammunition sales. "

-Seven round magazines are very difficult to find for any weapon, "military style" or not. Most Internet ammunition suppliers did not ship to New York state before this law, so the effect of this legislation remains to be seen.

"The bill calls for universal background checks for all gun sales, as well as real-time background checks of ammunition purchases in order to alert State Police to high-volume buyers. "

-This would be a change, albeit a minor one. Federal law already maintains a background check system, which must be filled out in-store at a gun shop with a Federal Firearms License (FFL). Falsification of said form is prosecutable as perjury.

I have yet to see the specific number that would indicate "high-volume" ammunition purchases, which could be an editorial omission. If not, it leaves open the possibility of arbitrary decisions by the government as to what constitutes such a purchase, which is never a good thing. Furthermore, many marksmen and hunters make large purchases before hunting seasons in order to practice. The State Police in New York would probably be catching more false alarms with this technique than actual problems.

"Individuals who already own assault weapons will be required to register them within a year and be recertified every five years."

This is not yet mandated by Federal law. In my opinion, it makes the rather tacky assumption that people who own such firearms are, by their very nature, mentally ill. If evaluations are to be made, they should be on the scale of the entire population.

"There is also a "Webster provision," which calls for a life-without-parole sentence for killers of first responders. The measure was inspired by the Christmas Eve shooting in upstate Webster that killed two firefighters responding to a blaze."

- Fair enough.

"If the bill passes, mental-health professionals would be required to report potentially dangerous patients - who could then have their guns yanked - and mentally ill inmates would have to undergo review before being released from prison. Mandatory treatment for potentially dangerous mentally ill individuals would be broadened to a year, up from the current six months. "

-Arguably the most useful provision of this bill. It's already illegal to sell a weapon to a dangerously unstable person, but there was no real way to report this.

"Also under the bill, the state would develop an electronic gun- permit database to identify individuals disqualified from owning guns. Private gun transfers would require background checks, except for immediate family. "

The electronic database would be useful, but people who are criminals usually ignore sources that would require background checks. This won't change with the immediate family provision.

"Sen. Martin Golden (R-Brooklyn) said the bill also strengthens penalties for guns used in gang activities and allows prosecution of each gang member who uses a so-called "community gun.""

-Again, fair enough.

"The legislation included provisions pushed for by Republicans, including making it a felony to possess a firearm on school grounds or a school bus and allowing pistol-permit holders to request their personal information not be made public. "

-It's already a felony to possess a firearm on school grounds or a school bus, and has been for quite a while at the national level. Such laws have had little effect in blocking people who intend to use weapons to harm those on school grounds.

The removal of pistol-permit owner information from the public record is a good thing. A New York newspaper recently published the addresses of many such permit holders in Manhattan, making these individuals targets for burglaries and discrimination.

"Politicians from both sides of the aisle noted that Cuomo, who was planning to waive a three-day aging period for bills and allow lawmakers to vote on the gun legislation immediately, would beat the White House with the nation's first gun-control package."

-Forcing legislation is never a good thing, Governor.

The bill is a mixture of some measures that could have some chance of working and pure superstitious garbage, shoved through by a legislature that is made of people who know little or nothing about what they care to legislate.

/x-post from the other thread aboot this
 
2013-01-15 02:19:58 PM  
we petition the obama administration to:

Rule the "NY SAFE ACT" to be UNCONSTITUTIONAL!


I didn't realize the President had that power.
 
2013-01-15 02:24:05 PM  
If you don't like leftist totalitarianism, you probably shouldn't be in NY state in the first place.
 
2013-01-15 02:24:09 PM  

queezyweezel: Criminals use handguns with 6-8 round magazines. Why? Because that's whats cheap and popular.


Good god! They make handguns that can hold 6 magazines???
 
2013-01-15 02:25:16 PM  
Watching old episodes of The West Wing last night, it occurred to me that the White House petition website is just the internet version of Total Crackpot Day.
 
2013-01-15 02:25:18 PM  

Marine1: The bill is a mixture of some measures that could have some chance of working and pure superstitious garbage, shoved through by a legislature that is made of people who know little or nothing about what they care to legislate.

/x-post from the other thread aboot this


Fully agree.
 
2013-01-15 02:26:32 PM  
A limit of 7? Really? What idiots.

Gun grabbers need a reality check.
 
2013-01-15 02:26:40 PM  

Voiceofreason01: I don't think I'd go as far as calling it "draconian" but it does seem to be a lot of posturing for political points at the expense of legal and law abiding gun owners without actually improving safety for the public at large.


Reading trough the actual bill now. I've yet to find anything particularly dubious (though things that are useless, like limits on magazine size, are in there)

Perhaps you can elaborate on specifics you feel are "at the expense of legal and law abiding gun owners" ? I'm assuming you've read the bill yourself, naturally....


=Smidge=
 
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