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(NPR)   It's not just the offense that's offensive, and it's not even just the lying about the offense...to thunder about your innocence when you are guilty is to exploit your audience's darkest fears of being wrongly accused   (npr.org) divider line 144
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14458 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jan 2013 at 2:31 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-15 01:53:29 PM  
As someone who believed him originally, and wanted to continue believing him for many reasons, all I can say is fark you, Lance Armstrong. Fark you to hell and I hope to God that the rest of your life is a long, miserable slog.
 
2013-01-15 02:10:32 PM  

Pocket Ninja: As someone who believed him originally, and wanted to continue believing him for many reasons, all I can say is fark you, Lance Armstrong. Fark you to hell and I hope to God that the rest of your life is a long, miserable slog.

 
2013-01-15 02:13:27 PM  
As if politicians haven't set the standard?
 
2013-01-15 02:22:10 PM  
You people are insane.  A confession makes me more likely to believe he did not do it.  Why admit something which isn't true?  That's my point.  There's only one thing Lance Armstrong is guilty of: Dominating a sport where it is literally impossible to compete without using performance-enhancing drugs.  People are just mad that they cannot ride a bicycle as fast as Lance Armstrong.  Deal with it.
 
2013-01-15 02:34:08 PM  

Pocket Ninja: As someone who believed him originally, and wanted to continue believing him for many reasons, all I can say is fark you, Lance Armstrong. Fark you to hell and I hope to God that the rest of your life is a long, miserable slog you eventually become the person you pretended to be.


My version is close. I'm still disappointed, but he's still in a position to spend a good portion of his life making good things happen.
 
2013-01-15 02:34:47 PM  

Pocket Ninja: As someone who believed him originally, and wanted to continue believing him for many reasons, all I can say is fark you, Lance Armstrong. Fark you to hell and I hope to God that the rest of your life is a long, miserable slog.


This, though I'm disappointed that it probably won't go that way. He'll hype himself for all he's worth, and it will work, and it may well ruin the principle of falling on one's metaphorical sword for everyone else.
 
2013-01-15 02:36:13 PM  
Wouldn't this article have been better were it penned after the Oprah piece airs?
 
2013-01-15 02:36:20 PM  
Do people really care about this?

"Man admits to doping in a sport where everyone dopes."

No shiat he doped. So did everyone that placed second behind him. Cycling is the dirtiest sport on Earth.

I don't care. It's a race. Ride faster.
 
2013-01-15 02:37:39 PM  
I originally believed him, as well. I was wrong.
 
2013-01-15 02:37:50 PM  
Go big or go home. With your cheating, with your ego, and with your denials.
 
2013-01-15 02:39:05 PM  
No-one has won a major road cycling event in living memory without taking drugs or doping. No-one. At all. Not one. Anyone who says they have is lying, and everyone else participating or involved knows full well that this is the case.
 
2013-01-15 02:39:19 PM  
Liars have always used language of truth, because otherwise liars are quite easy to spot.
 
2013-01-15 02:40:15 PM  
Well to be fair, it is the age of the rich, greedy, unapologetic cheaters with no conscience. soul or integrity. Maybe he should go into the financial market next? Or fox news maybe? Or be a tea party spokesman? Global warming denier for Exxon... err I mean secret, unnamed financiers? So many possibilities for the modern day douche.
 
2013-01-15 02:40:34 PM  
The important thing is that he is not going to jail or anything and can keep (most of) his money
 
2013-01-15 02:41:42 PM  
Never trust bikers.
 
2013-01-15 02:42:09 PM  

Rent Party: Do people really care about this?

"Man admits to doping in a sport where everyone dopes."

No shiat he doped. So did everyone that placed second behind him. Cycling is the dirtiest sport on Earth.

I don't care. It's a race. Ride faster.


The issue is that he basically accused many people of slander.

If anyone is owed an apology, it's the many people he maligned in an attempt to hide the truth.
 
2013-01-15 02:42:13 PM  
Over in one because Pocket Ninja is smart.

Mike_LowELL: You people are insane. A confession makes me more likely to believe he did not do it.


Anyone who has experienced the American legal system is familiar with this phenomenon. It's ok.
 
2013-01-15 02:42:25 PM  
Welcom to Fark Real Life.
 
2013-01-15 02:43:32 PM  
So it's a fine article but it's completely missing an angle - that of the journalists. He should be equally upset at the journalists and the media behind the false accusations. For his questions:

What are you supposed to do if you're the guy who's accused of using performance-enhancing drugs and you actually didn't?

Not report it until you have solid evidence they are doping. That way you don't drag someone's name through the mud unnecessarily.

Or the guy who's accused of having sex with an intern and you actually didn't?

Not report it until you have solid evidence they did have sex. Something more than just a wild accusation.

You can stand up and object - I object, I really object, I very, very much object - but the more you object, the more you sound just like ... Lance Armstrong.

That way there will be nothing publicly to object to. I get it, your article is about how someone falsely accused will have a tougher time clearing their name in the media if they did nothing wrong. So how about the journalists be a bit more sure before they start tarnishing peoples names? See for instance the Duke Lacrosse Rape case.
 
2013-01-15 02:43:37 PM  

Pocket Ninja: As someone who believed him originally, and wanted to continue believing him for many reasons, all I can say is fark you, Lance Armstrong. Fark you to hell and I hope to God that the rest of your life is a long, miserable slog.


I am more mad at his insisting that this was all lies and rumors aimed to bring him down because he didn't follow suit, then he turns around and admits he made it all up and he actually did dope.
He was a doper, but he was the best damn doper.
 
2013-01-15 02:43:40 PM  
Actually, I never believed he was innocent. I never believed anyone could compete at that level for as many years as he did WITHOUT using some kind of performance enhancing drugs--and especially with the cancer. I just figured he was lying because, being that this is America, we don't allow athletes to use drugs because we have to believe that they can bend steel with their bare hands, leap tall buildings in a single bound, and win seven Tours de France because they're pure of heart and Jeezus. Oh, and it's illegal.

Look: All athletes are doping. Or rather: All athletes who are winning are doping. It's that simple, and if you don't realize and accept that, you're twice a fool. The sooner we all acknowledge that and stop pretending that gold medallists and world-record-setting sprinters are doing all that miraculous stuff because they are demigods, the sooner athletes can stop hiding and using dangerous drugs and sneaking around and all that. It's not "cheating" and it's not necessarily wrong.

As long as we continue to idolize WINNERS and say in disappointed tones "I guess he'll have to settle for the silver" and only give fat contracts to the guy who came in first and not the guys whose blood tested cleanest, then there's going to be blood doping; you all contributed to this, so stop whining. Nobody was cheering for the cyclists at the Tours who came in 47th because they weren't using performance enhancers.
 
2013-01-15 02:44:02 PM  

thornhill:

If anyone is owed an apology, it's the many people he maligned in an attempt to hide the truth.


I'm OK with that. I've heard the dude is a complete asshole, but that is purely hearsay.

As far as the fact of his doping: BFD.
 
2013-01-15 02:46:23 PM  
I'm just glad he has the balls to confess.
 
2013-01-15 02:47:05 PM  

doczoidberg: I'm just glad he has the balls to confess.


He had to have been half nuts to try it in the first place.
 
2013-01-15 02:47:37 PM  

Rent Party: Do people really care about this?

"Man admits to doping in a sport where everyone dopes."

No shiat he doped. So did everyone that placed second behind him. Cycling is the dirtiest sport on Earth.

I don't care. It's a race. Ride faster.


This sort of thing goes beyond the cycling world. When your entire persona is about "I'm doing this through hard work, not shortcuts or enhancements", then you'd damn well better live it even if it means you're an also-ran in the sport. If you're going to use PEDs because "it's the only way", then say so and advocate to allow their use. Don't run around saying "I'm not one of them" when in fact you are.

In addition, his actions make it harder for those who are truly innocent of unproven (or perhaps unprovable) accusations to stick to their assertions of innocence without the pat response being "yeah, that's what Lance Armstrong kept saying. One day we'll expose you, too."
 
2013-01-15 02:48:17 PM  
No, no, no!

His lungs are bigger! His heart has extra capacity!

He's a freak of nature, dammit!
 
2013-01-15 02:48:18 PM  

Rent Party: thornhill:

If anyone is owed an apology, it's the many people he maligned in an attempt to hide the truth.

I'm OK with that. I've heard the dude is a complete asshole, but that is purely hearsay.

As far as the fact of his doping: BFD.


I agree -- I'm pretty indifferent to the doping. Just don't deny it and act like Jesus being nailed to the cross.
 
2013-01-15 02:49:48 PM  
Why do I sometimes feel like I am the only person who never looked up to him in the first place?
 
2013-01-15 02:50:00 PM  
twimg0-a.akamaihd.net
 
2013-01-15 02:52:45 PM  

The Angry Hand of God: Why do I sometimes feel like I am the only person who never looked up to him in the first place?


Great athletic feats have never done much to impress me. At the end of the day, it's all about the glory of the individual. I'm more impressed with the work his cancer foundation has done.
 
2013-01-15 02:52:48 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Actually, I never believed he was innocent. I never believed anyone could compete at that level for as many years as he did WITHOUT using some kind of performance enhancing drugs--and especially with the cancer. I just figured he was lying because, being that this is America, we don't allow athletes to use drugs because we have to believe that they can bend steel with their bare hands, leap tall buildings in a single bound, and win seven Tours de France because they're pure of heart and Jeezus. Oh, and it's illegal.

Look: All athletes are doping. Or rather: All athletes who are winning are doping. It's that simple, and if you don't realize and accept that, you're twice a fool. The sooner we all acknowledge that and stop pretending that gold medallists and world-record-setting sprinters are doing all that miraculous stuff because they are demigods, the sooner athletes can stop hiding and using dangerous drugs and sneaking around and all that. It's not "cheating" and it's not necessarily wrong.

As long as we continue to idolize WINNERS and say in disappointed tones "I guess he'll have to settle for the silver" and only give fat contracts to the guy who came in first and not the guys whose blood tested cleanest, then there's going to be blood doping; you all contributed to this, so stop whining. Nobody was cheering for the cyclists at the Tours who came in 47th because they weren't using performance enhancers.



This post was a joke, right? It's the fans' fault for practically forcing athletes to dope, which isn't really cheating or wrong and if we stopped pressuring them to do better, they would be safer and stop doping?

I'm just makin sure, it's not your usual MO. We can stop doping entirely. Hire a bunch of scientists who randomly and often throughout the year demand blood and urine samples. Don't provide, you're out. We don't do that, not because of the fans but because of the money. Cycling didn't want to ban Lance Armstrong forever because that would have killed viewership (read: less money).
 
2013-01-15 02:53:23 PM  
0.tqn.com
 
2013-01-15 02:54:45 PM  
Cyclists are douche bags and Lance is their king.
 
2013-01-15 02:54:49 PM  

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Rent Party: Do people really care about this?

"Man admits to doping in a sport where everyone dopes."

No shiat he doped. So did everyone that placed second behind him. Cycling is the dirtiest sport on Earth.

I don't care. It's a race. Ride faster.

This sort of thing goes beyond the cycling world. When your entire persona is about "I'm doing this through hard work, not shortcuts or enhancements", then you'd damn well better live it even if it means you're an also-ran in the sport. If you're going to use PEDs because "it's the only way", then say so and advocate to allow their use. Don't run around saying "I'm not one of them" when in fact you are.

In addition, his actions make it harder for those who are truly innocent of unproven (or perhaps unprovable) accusations to stick to their assertions of innocence without the pat response being "yeah, that's what Lance Armstrong kept saying. One day we'll expose you, too."


Have you ever played golf with a guy that always forgets to count that gimmee putt that he missed, or thinks Mulligans are something you get whenever you want, but then insists he still plays to a 7 handicap?

You still drink the beer and listen to him tell you about how he had to cut it around that tree and carry the water hazard just so he could have a shot at that 30' putt that turned three ways to save par. And you know he's full of shiat, like he's only got four fingers on each hand or something. Lance is like that.

Everyone except the willfully ignorant knew he doped. And we know that because every single top tier racer in the sport has been convicted of doping. It would only be through magic that he could compete clean in that crowd and produce the results he did.

His impact on the rest of the "clean" bike racers is negligible, because there are no clean bike racers. Every single one of the people that placed behind him is a convicted doper. Every. Single. One. You'd have to give the trophy to the dude that placed 16th or something to find the guy that really didn't dope.

So, in summary: Doping? BFD. Just don't be a dick about it.
 
2013-01-15 02:55:43 PM  
Meh, I'm hoping he goes on Oprah and continues to protest his innocence.
 
2013-01-15 02:55:48 PM  
this article is written by a complete moron. He sees Lance Armstrong on tv often, so he thinks it is logical or even inevitable to compare anyone who is indignant to lance Armstrong. Why would this writer think that Lance Armstrong is the archetype of indignation simply because Lance Armstrong is a ubiquitous brand name?
 
2013-01-15 02:55:52 PM  
The reason I just don't like pro sports much any more is that it's about winning at any cost, by any means available, and as the comments here demonstrate, most people don't care, or are enthusiastically in favor of this.  They might sing a different tune when their own teen whacks himself out on steroids, or they might not; but in any event, when it comes to pro athletes, they're ok with doping, or anything else that will help an athlete outperform everyone else.  Even if/when it destroys the athlete.  Who cares.  I got what I wanted.  Dumbass should have known better.  Change the channel.

Doping or steroids seem to me like a boxer putting razor blades into his gloves.  It drains the fun out of sports for me.  But I've always been more interested in the effort in a game than in winning.  I'd rather watch a close game between mediocre but valiant athletes than one where The $uper$tar tramples on everything in his path and exult$ in glory at the end of the match, just like he does in every match, his abnormally gigantic mu$cle$ flexing victoriou$ly.

(Then, when he commits suicide at age 43, it gives us something to talk about.)
 
2013-01-15 02:56:59 PM  

lucksi: The important thing is that he is not going to jail or anything and can keep (most of) his money had cancer, so we should be ashamed that he has to admit he's a liar, cheater and a fraud. Why do you all love cancer so much?

 
2013-01-15 02:59:25 PM  
Lying POS. Fool me once, shame on me...

Therefore I won't believe his "confession".

Sorry Mr. Livestrong pants on fire, but I'm not falling for it ... no matter how hard you want me to buy it, I'm now saying that you totally didn't dope.

/so there
 
2013-01-15 02:59:32 PM  
Are we still pretending to care about cycling?
 
2013-01-15 02:59:45 PM  
I bet those guys who cut a nut off to be more aerodynamic are kicking themselves now.
 
2013-01-15 02:59:55 PM  
The article that TFA linked (about the lengths football players go to to remain competitive) was enlightening...

I knew football was bad, but not that bad.
 
2013-01-15 03:00:23 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Actually, I never believed he was innocent. I never believed anyone could compete at that level for as many years as he did WITHOUT using some kind of performance enhancing drugs--and especially with the cancer. I just figured he was lying because, being that this is America, we don't allow athletes to use drugs because we have to believe that they can bend steel with their bare hands, leap tall buildings in a single bound, and win seven Tours de France because they're pure of heart and Jeezus. Oh, and it's illegal.

Look: All athletes are doping. Or rather: All athletes who are winning are doping. It's that simple, and if you don't realize and accept that, you're twice a fool. The sooner we all acknowledge that and stop pretending that gold medallists and world-record-setting sprinters are doing all that miraculous stuff because they are demigods, the sooner athletes can stop hiding and using dangerous drugs and sneaking around and all that. It's not "cheating" and it's not necessarily wrong.

As long as we continue to idolize WINNERS and say in disappointed tones "I guess he'll have to settle for the silver" and only give fat contracts to the guy who came in first and not the guys whose blood tested cleanest, then there's going to be blood doping; you all contributed to this, so stop whining. Nobody was cheering for the cyclists at the Tours who came in 47th because they weren't using performance enhancers.


The "everyone else is doing it " excuse is lame.

Sporting events are about what the human body can accomplish when all exterior concerns are equal (excluding training) . Doping/drugs destroys any chance if fair competition.
 
2013-01-15 03:02:03 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: this article is written by a complete moron. He sees Lance Armstrong on tv often, so he thinks it is logical or even inevitable to compare anyone who is indignant to lance Armstrong. Why would this writer think that Lance Armstrong is the archetype of indignation simply because Lance Armstrong is a ubiquitous brand name?


farking great point. He's not known as a role model anymore--he's known as an idiot. His past indignation is rendered null and void.
 
2013-01-15 03:02:13 PM  

lennavan: Gyrfalcon: Actually, I never believed he was innocent. I never believed anyone could compete at that level for as many years as he did WITHOUT using some kind of performance enhancing drugs--and especially with the cancer. I just figured he was lying because, being that this is America, we don't allow athletes to use drugs because we have to believe that they can bend steel with their bare hands, leap tall buildings in a single bound, and win seven Tours de France because they're pure of heart and Jeezus. Oh, and it's illegal.

Look: All athletes are doping. Or rather: All athletes who are winning are doping. It's that simple, and if you don't realize and accept that, you're twice a fool. The sooner we all acknowledge that and stop pretending that gold medallists and world-record-setting sprinters are doing all that miraculous stuff because they are demigods, the sooner athletes can stop hiding and using dangerous drugs and sneaking around and all that. It's not "cheating" and it's not necessarily wrong.

As long as we continue to idolize WINNERS and say in disappointed tones "I guess he'll have to settle for the silver" and only give fat contracts to the guy who came in first and not the guys whose blood tested cleanest, then there's going to be blood doping; you all contributed to this, so stop whining. Nobody was cheering for the cyclists at the Tours who came in 47th because they weren't using performance enhancers.

This post was a joke, right? It's the fans' fault for practically forcing athletes to dope, which isn't really cheating or wrong and if we stopped pressuring them to do better, they would be safer and stop doping?

I'm just makin sure, it's not your usual MO. We can stop doping entirely. Hire a bunch of scientists who randomly and often throughout the year demand blood and urine samples. Don't provide, you're out. We don't do that, not because of the fans but because of the money. Cycling didn't want to ban Lance Armstrong forever because that ...


Human augmentation through biology, chemistry, & technology is too far along to go back. We have people winning events in the Olympics because they have genetically insane physical fitness. Look up genetic myostatin deficiency if you don't believe me.

I'd like to see the the world collectively stop caring about the runners, bicyclists, swimmers, etc, and start focusing on sports that take a combination of athleticism and skill.
 
2013-01-15 03:04:12 PM  

Darth_Lukecash:

The "everyone else is doing it " excuse is lame.


I don't think it's an excuse so much as it is an observation on all the outrage over Lance doping. There is no general outrage over doping in cycling because "everyone else is doing it." It is a collective "meh" from the sporting world. But Armstrong dopes and the whole planet loses their shiat over it.

Cycling is the dirtiest sport there is. When we recognize that, we should start with there and work backwards.
 
2013-01-15 03:04:19 PM  

Rent Party: No shiat he doped. So did everyone that placed second behind him. Cycling is the dirtiest sport on Earth.


Cycling is dirty, and every rider at the top level was doping. But it's far from the dirtiest sport on earth. Hell, the NFL doesn't even bother to pretend like they're testing for the most common performance enhancing drugs.

Professional sports exist to generate revenue, and generating revenue means having recognizable branded superstars who will get people interested. If those superstars take performance enhancing drugs to prevent injury and stay at the top of their game for years, generating exponentially more revenue for the sport each year they play, no governing body on earth has any interest in stopping them.

The only time performance enhancing drugs get cut back is when the fans get sick of the obvious steroid monsters running around looking like professional wrestlers, like baseball saw about ten years ago. And even now, even after all the fan outrage, the goal of baseball testing seems more geared toward making sure that players don't get comically huge, instead of making sure they're clean.

Professional sports and performance enhancing drugs go together, hand in hand. It's all professional sports; calling cycling the dirtiest is turning a pretty blind eye to what's going on elsewhere.
 
2013-01-15 03:05:29 PM  

Lexx: I'd like to see the the world collectively stop caring about the runners, bicyclists, swimmers, etc, and start focusing on sports that take a combination of athleticism and skill.


Agrees:

static.tvfanatic.com

"I play real sports, not try to be the best at exercising."
 
2013-01-15 03:06:42 PM  
I found out some years ago that some people, and lots more of them than you'd expect, lie like this, and they do it all the time. It doesn't even bother them that much except when they get caught, like Lance did.

Maybe I should have realized stuff like this when I was much younger. Maybe some people never have to find out. I don't even know anymore. I just remember how totally disappointed I was in the whole human race when I found out certain truths, and I've never gotten over it.

So, Lance---meh.
/I actually thought he might be clean, not following the story too much. So I guess that's fool me once, there's a saying....fool. You fool, you.
 
2013-01-15 03:07:05 PM  
He learned from Clinton.
 
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