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(Boston Herald)   Internet demands that Obama replace Carmen Ortiz with prosecutor who doesn't put people in prison for computer crimes   (bostonherald.com) divider line 189
    More: Followup, U.S. Attorney, Aaron Swartz, Computer Crime, Carmen Ortiz, obama, U.S., internet, miscarriage of justice  
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3064 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jan 2013 at 11:36 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-15 11:34:35 AM
she SHOULD lose her job.  what she did was vicious, petty and spiteful.
 
2013-01-15 11:35:32 AM
And I gotta say, maybe a prosecutor who starts putting people in jail for whole-world-crashing banking crimes wouldn't hurt my feelings.
 
2013-01-15 11:38:53 AM
There goes her career aspirations.
 
2013-01-15 11:40:36 AM

Madame Ovary: There goes her career aspirations.


nah, she's probably gonna be promoted.  to most people, 'hackers' are evil criminal masterminds.  you can tell all sorts of lies about 'em and get away with it, no problem.
 
2013-01-15 11:41:03 AM
How about just a prosecutor who ranks justice, proportionality and shame as more important than a sociopathic/egomaniacal quest for personal glory?
 
2013-01-15 11:41:14 AM
Madame Ovary
There goes her career aspirations.

Are you kidding? She was successful beyond their wildest dreams. It'll be promotions all around. I bet she runs for senate in a few years.
 
2013-01-15 11:41:17 AM
How dare a prosecutor do their job! This man created a website used for child porn he's a saint!
 
2013-01-15 11:42:46 AM
And the comments section of that link is a clear explanation of why 'the internet' shouldn't get to demand anything.
 
2013-01-15 11:44:01 AM
Prosecutors, in general, just want to put people in jail.

They'll go for any charges they can, against anybody, whenever they can.

I consider them, and judges, to be psychopaths.

They just want to ruin lives. Sure, they also punish some bad people along the way...but they don't care who they ruin on the side just for the fark of it.

Freaks.
 
2013-01-15 11:45:18 AM

doczoidberg: Prosecutors, in general, just want to put people in jail.

They'll go for any charges they can, against anybody, whenever they can.

I consider them, and judges, to be psychopaths.

They just want to ruin lives. Sure, they also punish some bad people along the way...but they don't care who they ruin on the side just for the fark of it.

Freaks.


so basically you are saying that when the zombie apocalypse comes we can use them as bait to distract the hordes of undead away from useful people...?
 
2013-01-15 11:45:28 AM
Internet demands that Obama replace Carmen Ortiz with prosecutor who doesn't put people in prison for computer non-crimes

FTFS
 
2013-01-15 11:45:52 AM

unlikely: And I gotta say, maybe a prosecutor who starts putting people in jail for whole-world-crashing banking crimes wouldn't hurt my feelings.


Second.
 
2013-01-15 11:46:09 AM

Weaver95: so basically you are saying that when the zombie apocalypse comes we can use them as bait to distract the hordes of undead away from useful people...?


Well, lawyers generally.
 
2013-01-15 11:47:01 AM
Gosh, I hope she won't be driven to kill herself!
 
2013-01-15 11:47:25 AM

Weaver95: she SHOULD lose her job.  what she did was vicious, petty and spiteful.


what did she do?
 
2013-01-15 11:48:13 AM

Weaver95: doczoidberg: Prosecutors, in general, just want to put people in jail.

They'll go for any charges they can, against anybody, whenever they can.

I consider them, and judges, to be psychopaths.

They just want to ruin lives. Sure, they also punish some bad people along the way...but they don't care who they ruin on the side just for the fark of it.

Freaks.

so basically you are saying that when the zombie apocalypse comes we can use them as bait to distract the hordes of undead away from useful people...?


Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
 
2013-01-15 11:48:16 AM

WTF Indeed: How dare a prosecutor do their job! This man created a website used for child porn he's a saint!

 
2013-01-15 11:48:52 AM
Suicide was really not a valid response to his situation.
 
2013-01-15 11:49:20 AM

WTF Indeed: How dare a prosecutor do their job! This man created a website used for child porn he's a saint!


0/10. Even subby wrote a better troll than this.
 
2013-01-15 11:49:33 AM
The internet food chain:

ALL CONTENT ----> overpriviliged middle class snowflakes who believe that because something is technologically possible, it should be legal, as long as they find it personally convenient. Also, you should win prizes by doing it.
 
2013-01-15 11:49:54 AM

chrylis: Internet demands that Obama replace Carmen Ortiz with prosecutor who doesn't put people in prison for computer non-crimes

FTFS


Hacking into a website and stealing documents that don't belong to you is a non-crime? Who knew.
 
2013-01-15 11:50:57 AM
doczoidberg: Prosecutors, in general, just want to put people in jail.

They'll go for any charges they can, against anybody, whenever they can.
I consider them, and judges, to be psychopaths.
They just want to ruin lives. Sure, they also punish some bad people along the way...but they don't care who they ruin on the side just for the fark of it.
Freaks.

Please post a photo of yourself in your full ICP/goth/EMO getup so that we can get the full effect.
 
2013-01-15 11:51:06 AM
Anyone here with a GED in law? I'm a little confused. So, someone (let's say Madame Ovary, chosen because of the cool name) smacks me in the face for no reason (you jerk!). I have to press charges. The DA doesn't just go round her up and set a trial. I have to say that Madame Ovary (you jerk!) attacked me, and, damn it, I want justice! Ok, so I have to press charges. Who was pressing charges in this case? JSTOR apparently had no interest and had let the matter go. MIT was, according to some other story, "neutral". So who was the wronged party that was pushing for the prosecution?

/you jerk!
 
2013-01-15 11:52:27 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Suicide was really not a valid response to his situation.


Suicide is painless. It brings on many changes.

And I can take or leave it if I please.
 
2013-01-15 11:52:40 AM
If you don't want to see her promoted, sign the petition to let Obama know of the outrage.

It's at 28,000, and still ignorable. Much less ignorable when it hits 50,000 or 100,000.

Link
 
2013-01-15 11:54:08 AM
Most people from other Western Nations are of the opinion that the US unnecessarily incarcerates non-violent perpetrators.
The long-term interests of EVERYONE would be far better served if the focus was on rehabilitation rather than revenge, but, of course, the politicians, business leaders and law-enforcement find it so much more satisfying to pander to the baser instincts of their supporters who lack the skills of critical thinking.
 
2013-01-15 11:54:19 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Suicide was really not a valid response to his situation.


no, but...he did have a history of depression and had good reason to believe that this prosecutor was after him personally.  a federal prosecutor with a grudge?  yeah, not a good thing.  either leave the country and NEVER come back or just go ahead and die because those are your only real options.
 
2013-01-15 11:54:46 AM
They guy was obviously Vince Fostered because he knew too much.
 
2013-01-15 11:56:41 AM

WTF Indeed: How dare a prosecutor do their job! This man created a website used for child porn he's a saint!


It's long been established that forum owners are not responsible for what their users post. I ran a forum years ago, and some asshole dropped kiddie porn in every sub-forum. I deleted it, reported it, and moved on with my life. I wasn't prosecuted because I had no preemptive control over what users posted.

And btw, according to what I've found out, Reddit has banned kiddie porn, so, just like me, they aren't responsible if some asshole breaks the rules.
 
2013-01-15 11:57:53 AM
there were a LOT of folks in the federal court system who got weirdly fueled by rage over the attempt to crowdsource free access to public data.  that's the back story to this whole mess.
 
2013-01-15 11:58:20 AM

doczoidberg: Weaver95: doczoidberg: Prosecutors, in general, just want to put people in jail.

They'll go for any charges they can, against anybody, whenever they can.

I consider them, and judges, to be psychopaths.

They just want to ruin lives. Sure, they also punish some bad people along the way...but they don't care who they ruin on the side just for the fark of it.

Freaks.

so basically you are saying that when the zombie apocalypse comes we can use them as bait to distract the hordes of undead away from useful people...?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.


You better hope the zombies don't think lawyers are junk food.
 
2013-01-15 11:58:48 AM

Weaver95: HotWingConspiracy: Suicide was really not a valid response to his situation.

no, but...he did have a history of depression and had good reason to believe that this prosecutor was after him personally.  a federal prosecutor with a grudge?  yeah, not a good thing.  either leave the country and NEVER come back or just go ahead and die because those are your only real options.


How is it a grudge? She's paid to put people in jail. This guy was smart enough to understand that what he was doing was illegal and he would be charged if caught. Did he think because he had a website some famous people went too he was going to get off?
 
2013-01-15 11:59:10 AM
Whats that saying? Dont do the crime if you cant do the time? Intent, he knew it was wrong and did it anyway.


/suicide: Permanent solution to temporary problems
 
2013-01-15 11:59:24 AM

treesloth: So who was the wronged party that was pushing for the prosecution?


"The United States"
 
2013-01-15 11:59:30 AM

ShadowkahnCRX: WTF Indeed: How dare a prosecutor do their job! This man created a website used for child porn he's a saint!

It's long been established that forum owners are not responsible for what their users post. I ran a forum years ago, and some asshole dropped kiddie porn in every sub-forum. I deleted it, reported it, and moved on with my life. I wasn't prosecuted because I had no preemptive control over what users posted.

And btw, according to what I've found out, Reddit has banned kiddie porn, so, just like me, they aren't responsible if some asshole breaks the rules.


unless of course you just wanna smear the forum moderator and/or destroy the website's reputation.  then just go right ahead and accuse 'em of dealing in kiddy porn because hey - reasons!
 
2013-01-15 11:59:36 AM

Day_Old_Dutchie: Most people from other Western Nations are of the opinion that the US unnecessarily incarcerates non-violent perpetrators.
The long-term interests of EVERYONE would be far better served if the focus was on rehabilitation rather than revenge, but, of course, the politicians, business leaders and law-enforcement find it so much more satisfying to pander to the baser instincts of their supporters who lack the skills of critical thinking.


Yeah, but "jack up the prison sentences!" is a great, but ultimately self-defeating. Seriously not trying to be a troll or an ass, but there seem to be 2 main parties to that: Republicans trying to be more conservative than anyone, and Democrats trying to convince a conservative base that voting for them isn't such a bad compromise. Meanwhile, real Scotsm... er, conservatives keep screaming, "Stop spending so damn much money! Let them work for their own upkeep!"
 
2013-01-15 12:01:16 PM

Mr Guy: treesloth: So who was the wronged party that was pushing for the prosecution?

"The United States"


Can they do that? Doesn't one of the immediate parties to the incident have to press charges?
 
2013-01-15 12:01:36 PM
In what world is downloading scholarly documents in a manner not quite intended (but not explicitly prohibited by) the repository thereof a worse crime than knowingly spreading AIDS, slavery, or helping al Qaeda develop a WMD?

They were threatening him with 35 years in prison. You can't be sentenced that harshly for any of the above.
 
2013-01-15 12:02:03 PM

treesloth: Yeah, but "jack up the prison sentences!" is a great, but ultimately self-defeating

way to pander.

Damn!
 
2013-01-15 12:03:01 PM

WTF Indeed: Weaver95: HotWingConspiracy: Suicide was really not a valid response to his situation.

no, but...he did have a history of depression and had good reason to believe that this prosecutor was after him personally.  a federal prosecutor with a grudge?  yeah, not a good thing.  either leave the country and NEVER come back or just go ahead and die because those are your only real options.

How is it a grudge? She's paid to put people in jail. This guy was smart enough to understand that what he was doing was illegal and he would be charged if caught. Did he think because he had a website some famous people went too he was going to get off?


she wanted to throw the book at this guy for something that the 'victim' didn't want to see hit the court system, then impose the maximum penalty possible under the law.  that's like throwing someone in jail for 15 years over a jaywalking charge.  could you do it?  sure, in theory you could bootstrap enough charges into a decade or more of jail time.  But should you do it?  f*ck no.  it's bad law.
 
2013-01-15 12:03:39 PM

jayphat: Hacking into a website and stealing documents that don't belong to you is a non-crime? Who knew.


Hacking into? He didn't "hack" anything by even the loosest definition of the term. He plugged a computer into a network that had access to Jstor. He didn't steal credentials, crack any hashes, or exploit any vulnerabilities. He plugged in a computer.
 
2013-01-15 12:03:45 PM

Joe Blowme: Whats that saying? Dont do the crime if you cant do the time? Intent, he knew it was wrong and did it anyway.


The point of this case, and the reaction to it, is that he was claiming to operate on behalf of the people of the United States in providing access to something that he believes was being illegally quarantined from the public despite being legally public information. He also stole some stuff he thought should be in the public domain as academic information, citing free speech and academic fair use. The prosecutor, also claiming to be operating in the best interest of the people of the United States, was attempting to prove that he harmed the people who were illegally restricting speech by pointing out and demonstrating massively publicly that they were restricting fair use and free speech by claiming a technological imperative that didn't exist.

Now, after his suicide, and the case was dropped, the public is essentially voicing their opinions to vote on which side we believe should be protected: Our right to free speech, and free access, vs MIT's right to make a profit for providing bandwidth to access public records.
 
2013-01-15 12:03:53 PM

Weaver95: HotWingConspiracy: Suicide was really not a valid response to his situation.

no, but...he did have a history of depression and had good reason to believe that this prosecutor was after him personally.  a federal prosecutor with a grudge?  yeah, not a good thing.  either leave the country and NEVER come back or just go ahead and die because those are your only real options.


He could have went to trial. They were trying to punk him into taking a plea, likely due to the weakness of their charges.

His history is exactly why the prosecutor is blameless for his death.

Stress and adversity can come from anywhere, it just happened to be her currently.

It's not that I'm unsympathetic, and agree that prosecutors have to much power and immunity from their decisions. I cannot blame her for this though.
 
2013-01-15 12:03:53 PM

jayphat: Hacking into a website and stealing documents that don't belong to you is a non-crime? Who knew.


Maybe if he'd hacked into a Web site or stolen documents you might have a point. As it turns out, all he did was to go over to MIT, which has free open Wi-Fi, and download a bunch of academic papers two which MIT had a campus-wide subscription. No hacking, and no theft.
 
2013-01-15 12:04:27 PM

treesloth: Mr Guy: treesloth: So who was the wronged party that was pushing for the prosecution?

"The United States"

Can they do that? Doesn't one of the immediate parties to the incident have to press charges?


Depends on the law. Some states can prosecute domestic violence once it has been reported and documented, even if the spouse refuses to press charges.
 
2013-01-15 12:04:38 PM

Weaver95: something that the 'victim' didn't want to see hit the court system...


That, to me, seems like the crux of this whole thing. Are the feds now white-knighting for someone who's just fine?
 
2013-01-15 12:05:38 PM

treesloth: Mr Guy: treesloth: So who was the wronged party that was pushing for the prosecution?

"The United States"

Can they do that? Doesn't one of the immediate parties to the incident have to press charges?



Don't look now, but the prosecutor and the entire court system are part of the United States, and thus an affected party. Also, IANAL but I'm pretty sure it's laid out in criminal law which laws can be acted on by the prosecutor directly.
 
2013-01-15 12:05:51 PM

treesloth: "The United States"

Can they do that? Doesn't one of the immediate parties to the incident have to press charges?


Um, you've heard the phrase "victimless crime"? By your logic, we couldn't prosecute the child corrupters who grow pot for their own consumption, and law and order would fall apart within a generation.
 
2013-01-15 12:06:26 PM

treesloth: Mr Guy: treesloth: So who was the wronged party that was pushing for the prosecution?

"The United States"

Can they do that? Doesn't one of the immediate parties to the incident have to press charges?


i'm pretty sure the prosecutor can go ahead without the consent of the victim.  it damages their ability to actually prosecute, mind you...but they can still go ahead with the case.

of course, if the real objective of the case is to just royally f*ck up someone's life and ruin their finances and reputation, then go ahead and drag 'em through court.  you'll lose the case and they'll walk but by that point the damage is done.  that's what it looks like here - this woman wanted to destroy Aaron Swartz, likely because of his activist work.
 
2013-01-15 12:07:01 PM

chrylis: a bunch of academic papers two which MIT had a campus-wide subscription


wtf?
 
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