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(The New York Times)   "This is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to circumvent the constitution"   (nytimes.com) divider line 426
    More: Scary, Vice President Joseph Biden Jr., Mayors Against Illegal Guns, generation opportunity, assault weapons, organizations  
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7446 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Jan 2013 at 9:33 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-15 08:20:54 AM  
The NYTimes just salivates at the opportunity to circumvent the constitution.  They wait their whole lives for an opportunity to chop it down.
 
2013-01-15 08:33:34 AM  
requiring criminal and mental-health background checks on every gun buyer, including sales from individuals
Wouldn't have stopped Sandy Hook, but still a good idea, sure.

a ban on military-style assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines
Depends on the specifics of the ban.  A few semi-automatic pistols with extra clips could still accomplish dozens dead.  It needn't be a scary looking gun.

a strong statute prohibiting gun trafficking; and an end to the hobbling of the federal agency that enforces gun laws.
Also a good idea, but it wouldn't have prevented a crazy man from using his mother's legally acquired weapons.

Not that I really have any better answers, just saying the sentiment shouldn't be "We have to have SOME kind of gun control now", just for the sake of saying you did something, but rather "How do we stop this from ever happening again?"
 
2013-01-15 08:33:34 AM  
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
 
2013-01-15 08:34:41 AM  
So, the VP will propose items to Congress that they will either pass or decline. TFA also mentions presidential orders for the states to reinforce the legislation that is passed. TFA makes no mention of any Executive Orders that may be construed to circumvent the constitution. I'm not seeing a problem here.
 
2013-01-15 08:37:39 AM  
I heard this phrase once, can't possibly recall who said it though:

"Elections have consequences."
 
2013-01-15 08:39:54 AM  

vudutek: So, the VP will propose items to Congress that they will either pass or decline. TFA also mentions presidential orders for the states to reinforce the legislation that is passed. TFA makes no mention of any Executive Orders that may be construed to circumvent the constitution. I'm not seeing a problem here.


Subby is a passionate defender of what he imagines the Constitution to be.
 
2013-01-15 08:40:15 AM  
Is no one going to point out this quote does not appear in the article?
 
2013-01-15 08:41:30 AM  

vudutek: So, the VP will propose items to Congress that they will either pass or decline. TFA also mentions presidential orders for the states to reinforce the legislation that is passed. TFA makes no mention of any Executive Orders that may be construed to circumvent the constitution. I'm not seeing a problem here.


I've read a number of proposals from the alleged Biden commission. While they do mention things like a renewed Assault Weapons Ban and "high-cap" magazine ban, it's suggested that there will not be enough support in Congress to get the measures through.
Other options would be strengthening existing laws (through executive order) with measures such as stricter background checks etc.

I support the latter. And I hope there's no push to ban specific types of weapons, magazines, or any nonsense like that if only so I can point and laugh at the dumbass panic buyers that bought a shiatty Bushmasters for 2K and the grabbers on Fark thinking that they'll ban the scary looking rifles.
 
2013-01-15 08:41:34 AM  

DamnYankees: Is no one going to point out this quote does not appear in the article?


This being Fark, that's kind of assumed.
 
2013-01-15 08:42:19 AM  

Frank N Stein: I've read a number of proposals from the alleged Biden commission.


Derp.

I meant alleged proposals, not alleged Biden commission.
 
2013-01-15 08:43:22 AM  

DamnYankees: Is no one going to point out this quote does not appear in the article?


If there's a quote in the headline, it's almost guaranteed to not be in the article.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-01-15 08:45:12 AM  
The idea that gun control is against the constitution is idiotic.  Even Scalia doesn't believe that.
 
2013-01-15 08:45:32 AM  

DamnYankees: Is no one going to point out this quote does not appear in the article?


You didn't read the first sentence?
 
2013-01-15 08:48:36 AM  

hinten: DamnYankees: Is no one going to point out this quote does not appear in the article?

You didn't read the first sentence?


You didn't, obviously.
 
2013-01-15 08:48:37 AM  

vpb: The idea that gun control is against the constitution is idiotic.  Even Scalia doesn't believe that.


Upcoming WND headline: "Scalia, closet liberal."
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-01-15 08:48:45 AM  

hinten: DamnYankees: Is no one going to point out this quote does not appear in the article?

You didn't read the first sentence?


Did you?  There's nothing relating to the constitution in it.
 
2013-01-15 08:48:49 AM  
reduce the threat of rapid-fire violence in America.

What's funny is that I can shoot my lever-action rifle damn near as fast as I can a semi auto.
 
2013-01-15 08:51:02 AM  

Speaker2Animals: hinten: DamnYankees: Is no one going to point out this quote does not appear in the article?

You didn't read the first sentence?

You didn't, obviously.



That's the www.exposeliberals.com
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-01-15 08:51:53 AM  

Frank N Stein: reduce the threat of rapid-fire violence in America.

What's funny is that I can shoot my lever-action rifle damn near as fast as I can a semi auto.


That's a good point.  There is no downside to banning semi-automatic rifles.
 
2013-01-15 08:55:37 AM  

vpb: That's a good point. There is no downside to banning semi-automatic rifles.


But this begs the question... why ban them in the first place?
 
2013-01-15 09:01:52 AM  
Or......how to breathe new life into the GOP.
 
2013-01-15 09:05:34 AM  

GAT_00: I heard this phrase once, can't possibly recall who said it though:

"Elections have consequences."


This. Also:

Mass shootings year after year have consequences.
 
2013-01-15 09:06:49 AM  

nekom: requiring criminal and mental-health background checks on every gun buyer, including sales from individuals
Wouldn't have stopped Sandy Hook, but still a good idea, sure.

a ban on military-style assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines
Depends on the specifics of the ban.  A few semi-automatic pistols with extra clips could still accomplish dozens dead.  It needn't be a scary looking gun.

a strong statute prohibiting gun trafficking; and an end to the hobbling of the federal agency that enforces gun laws.
Also a good idea, but it wouldn't have prevented a crazy man from using his mother's legally acquired weapons.

Not that I really have any better answers, just saying the sentiment shouldn't be "We have to have SOME kind of gun control now", just for the sake of saying you did something, but rather "How do we stop this from ever happening again?"


The mental-health background check, I think, is key here. But it requires a reliable mental health history to check *against*. I suggest mental-health screening of every child in the US. Any of them who might show the slightest signs of potentially becoming violent should automatically be branded for life and never be allowed anywhere near a gun, knife, baseball bat, or anything else.
 
2013-01-15 09:23:11 AM  
I went out this last weekend and bought a new shotgun.  On the way home I picked up some beer.  I had an urge to get a pack of cigarettes just to complete the trifecta.

Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Yeah, yeah, I know they include explosives now.  I'm old school.
 
2013-01-15 09:24:08 AM  

xanadian: The mental-health background check, I think, is key here. But it requires a reliable mental health history to check *against*.


Yes, a central and common medical records system that all providers use would solve a great deal of problems.
 
2013-01-15 09:30:37 AM  
The answer is pretty simple- We don't need to ban guns. We need to ban gun magazines. Make every gun single shot (or at most double barreled). You want to shoot? Go right ahead. But every time you pull the trigger, you have to open up the breach and manually put another cartridge in. Try taking out 10-15-20 people when you have to stop and reload after every shot. Makes it pretty darn difficult.
 
2013-01-15 09:34:39 AM  
Gun control advocates are taking the wrong approach. If they want to get the NRA and Republicans on board they should do the following:

Start arming people of color.
 
2013-01-15 09:35:11 AM  

BillCo: I went out this last weekend and bought a new shotgun.  On the way home I picked up some beer.  I had an urge to get a pack of cigarettes just to complete the trifecta.

Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Yeah, yeah, I know they include explosives now.  I'm old school.


I'd love an explosives convenience store. Instead, I have to resort to Taco Bell.

Ba dum bum bssh!
 
2013-01-15 09:37:08 AM  
I see we're back to "ANY and ALL gun control is unconstitutional."
 
2013-01-15 09:38:14 AM  
If God didn't want us to have guns, he never would have created the USA to spread his gospel to the heathens
 
2013-01-15 09:38:36 AM  
i226.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-15 09:38:38 AM  
The NRA has already won the war.  We're arguing about "assault weapon" bans and outlawing magazines with greater than ten rounds- these actions will have minimal or no impact on gun violence in America and minimal impact on the gun manufacturers bottom line.  When the bans pass, and they will, the Liberals will scream victory and their constituents will love them.  The NRA will get more fuel for its "They're coming for your guns/New World Order" rhetoric and their coffers will bulge.  Meanwhile the gun manufacturers will continue to sell weapons and there will continue to be a vast number of guns in the hands of U.S. citizens.

The only way to make a real difference is to disarm the populace, and that ain't going to happen.
 
2013-01-15 09:38:40 AM  

GAT_00: I heard this phrase once, can't possibly recall who said it though:

"Elections have consequences."


"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face. It's just a goddamned piece of paper."
 
2013-01-15 09:41:26 AM  
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives needs to have a permanent director

Yes, this would be a good place to start.
 
2013-01-15 09:42:11 AM  

Frank N Stein: reduce the threat of rapid-fire violence in America.

What's funny is that I can shoot my lever-action rifle damn near as fast as I can a semi auto.


mememagnetic.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-01-15 09:42:14 AM  
I wholeheartedly agree with the mental background requirement, I have lots of trouble with the ensuing clusterfark that would be sure to come with the classification of "military-style" weapons.
 
2013-01-15 09:43:32 AM  
Praise the Lord and pass the constitution.
 
2013-01-15 09:46:41 AM  
The vast majority of gun crimes in this country are committed with handguns. Banning large magazines isn't all that useful.

Since we aren't going to ban handguns, we just need to make them harder to get and easier to track. I think that's the best we can do.
 
2013-01-15 09:49:30 AM  
In fact, if we restored the Second Amendment to its original meaning, it would be the NRA's worst nightmare. Invoking the Second Amendment ought to be a more effective argument for increased regulation than it is against it.

Saul Cornell, Professor of American History at Fordham University


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/amendment-don-article-1.1223900#ix z z2I3WGFWL1
 
2013-01-15 09:50:19 AM  

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: The vast majority of gun crimes in this country are committed with handguns. Banning large magazines isn't all that useful.

Since we aren't going to ban handguns, we just need to make them harder to get and easier to track. I think that's the best we can do.


Handguns with 10, 12, 15 bullets are "large magazines".
 
2013-01-15 09:51:50 AM  

Dinki: The answer is pretty simple- We don't need to ban guns. We need to ban gun magazines. Make every gun single shot (or at most double barreled). You want to shoot? Go right ahead. But every time you pull the trigger, you have to open up the breach and manually put another cartridge in. Try taking out 10-15-20 people when you have to stop and reload after every shot. Makes it pretty darn difficult.


Even limiting guns to no quick-change magazines, so that shots have to be loaded individually, would work, with limits on magazine size after that. Exceptions made for certain professionals who require them, of course.
 
2013-01-15 09:52:10 AM  
The next few weeks represent a once-in-a-generation opportunity to harden the nation's gun laws and reduce the threat of rapid-fire violence in America.

Gee, good thing violence in America has already dropped substantially and continues to do so, despite literally millions of more guns in the hands of people over the past 20 years. But let's completely ignore that fact.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-t h e-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls

Link

i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-15 09:52:24 AM  
You're right.  The NYT's paywall should be unconstitutional.
 
2013-01-15 09:53:20 AM  

Dinki: The answer is pretty simple- We don't need to ban guns. We need to ban gun magazines. Make every gun single shot (or at most double barreled). You want to shoot? Go right ahead. But every time you pull the trigger, you have to open up the breach and manually put another cartridge in. Try taking out 10-15-20 people when you have to stop and reload after every shot. Makes it pretty darn difficult.


Yeah, let's see how well restricting guns more than Canada does works out for you. You can even have 10 round magazines in the great white north.
 
2013-01-15 09:55:58 AM  
"This is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to circumvent the constitution"

December 14, 2012: Sandy Hook
April 2, 2012: Oikos University
February 27, 2012: Chardon High School
January 5, 2011: Millard South High School
February 12, 2010: University of Alabama in Huntsville
October 26, 2008: University of Central Arkansas
August 21, 2008: Central High School

In related news: The average lifespan in the US is about 7.14 months.
 
2013-01-15 09:56:33 AM  

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: The vast majority of gun crimes in this country are committed with handguns. Banning large magazines isn't all that useful.

Since we aren't going to ban handguns, we just need to make them harder to get and easier to track. I think that's the best we can do.


Magazine restrictions are more about stopping major massacres. Laws on gun storage (having and using a gun safe) and registration/tracking are for trying to stop guns getting into the hands of criminals. Both have their part to play.
 
2013-01-15 09:57:00 AM  

SlothB77: The NYTimes just salivates at the opportunity to circumvent the constitution.  They wait their whole lives for an opportunity to chop it down.


Except that the quote in the headline wasn't in the article. And whether or not this is circumventing the constitution is a point of dispute, not a granted fact. Dumbarse.
 
2013-01-15 09:57:39 AM  

X-boxershorts: In fact, if we restored the Second Amendment to its original meaning, it would be the NRA's worst nightmare. Invoking the Second Amendment ought to be a more effective argument for increased regulation than it is against it.


I can't even imagine how badly the gunnutrightwing would flip out about tyranny and what not if we decided to regulate (train) our militia (all able-bodied males between blahblahblah). We've got an excellent tool for this already in place - selective service. It'll take a few years to process everybody through basic training, but at least everybody will get basic gun safety training and qualification, in addition to a basic mental health screening.

Then we just do some maintenance training... one weekend a month, one month a year. Keep that militia well regulated.
 
2013-01-15 09:57:48 AM  
Once-in-a-generation opportunity? Doubtful at best.

List of school shootings in the US. Highlights:
Sandy Hook: December 12, 2012 - 28 dead
Oakland, CA: April 7, 2012 - 7 dead
VA Tech: April 16, 2007 - 32 dead
Baily, CO: September 27, 2006 - 7 dead, 6 raped

There are species of fruit flies with generations longer than the amount of time between school shootings in this country.
 
2013-01-15 10:00:43 AM  
Oh, look. Another gun nut headline that's just a brazen lie based on the wild, fevered delusions of another unhinged maniac with the potential to obtain heavy firepower.

Freedom means giving insane people fully automatic weapons.
 
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