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(Townhall)   Assault weapon is a meaningless term. It's like banning 'fast cars'. What's the firearms equivalent to speed limits then?   (townhall.com) divider line 259
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652 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Jan 2013 at 8:49 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-15 08:17:50 AM
Subby, those intrepid folk at Townhall so rarely venture into the world of metaphor that it's probably best you just let them have this one without trying to flesh it out any. Just give them a little pat on their precious little head and move along.
 
2013-01-15 08:19:24 AM
Restrictions on fully automatic weapons. Which we have, BTW.
 
2013-01-15 08:21:38 AM
I agree, it is meaningless. In fact I'd go as far as to say that  "Assualt" is a made up word.
 
2013-01-15 08:41:07 AM
That analogy sort-of makes a little sense, but not in the way it is intended. The problem is not fast cars, nor is it guns. The problem is that there are, on the one hand, aggressive, belligerent, warlike types, and on the other hand  timid, frightened, passive-aggressive types. What sort of law should exist? What personality type should be made illegal? Are we to be ruled by young hotheads or controlling old men? To which industries should we submit, automobile manufacturers, or the gun manufacturers, or the insurance industry or the law enforcement industry or the political industry?
 
2013-01-15 08:46:29 AM
I guess I can only shoot shotguns and revolvers.  I prefer to drive a stick and shun automatics.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-01-15 08:47:03 AM
What's the firearms equivalent to speed limits then?

The ban on firing guns in a populated area, e.g. within 500 feet of a house or within city limits.
 
2013-01-15 08:50:37 AM
They're right, the focus should be on handguns and regulating those. Who wants to help regulate handguns?

/none of the hands on the right go up
 
x23
2013-01-15 08:51:22 AM
or a drivers license. or automobile insurance. etc etc.

this might not be the best analogy to be making.
 
2013-01-15 08:53:44 AM
No it's not like banning "fast cars." It's like banning a Honda Civic with an Acura body kit and emblem with a bunch of racing stickers and a gigantic spoiler. The "assault rifles" they're referring to are simply aggressive looking normal rifles.

That's what makes this talk all that more ridicules. Banning "extended" clips will accomplish nothing either as a 10 round clip isn't much different than a 20 rounder except you have to take 2 seconds to swap it out.
 
2013-01-15 08:54:05 AM

LasersHurt: They're right, the focus should be on handguns and regulating those. Who wants to help regulate handguns?

/none of the hands on the right go up


What sort of regulations for handguns would you suggest?
 
2013-01-15 08:57:02 AM
I love the way the NRA has steered the conversation away from "high capacity magazines, armor piercing rounds and guns difficult to detect even in a metal detector" to "what the hell is an 'assault' rifle, anyway?"

FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP
 
2013-01-15 08:58:23 AM

Frank N Stein: LasersHurt: They're right, the focus should be on handguns and regulating those. Who wants to help regulate handguns?

/none of the hands on the right go up

What sort of regulations for handguns would you suggest?


I'm not playing your game. I am just saying that the argument of ""assault" rifles isn't a good term, and rifles are barely ever used for shootings" leads naturally to a discussion of the guns that ARE used for that.

I'm also maybe making a reprise of "stop saying NO to everything and try to do something constructive," but in a gentle way.
 
2013-01-15 08:59:02 AM
Essentially, an "assault weapon" would be defined as one banned under any "assault weapons ban" legislation.  You're right, it has no real inherent meaning, but that's moot.
 
2013-01-15 08:59:36 AM

Kibbler: I love the way the NRA has steered the conversation away from "high capacity magazines, armor piercing rounds and guns difficult to detect even in a metal detector" to "what the hell is an 'assault' rifle, anyway?"



Lol wut?

AP ammo and guns that don't show up in metal detectors? Proof that the gun control crowd still gets it's ideas from Hollywood.

/have fun with your Glock 7.
 
2013-01-15 08:59:36 AM
In school zones, perhaps a limit of 5 rounds per second.
On the freeways, built for speed, a limit of 150 rounds per second seems appropriate.
 
2013-01-15 08:59:52 AM

Kibbler: I love the way the NRA has steered the conversation away from "high capacity magazines, armor piercing rounds and guns difficult to detect even in a metal detector" to "what the hell is an 'assault' rifle, anyway?"

FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP


Were gun ban advocates not dishonestly misrepresenting the word "assault rifle", such "steering" would not be possible.
 
2013-01-15 09:00:12 AM
Good, quick read on the misconception of "assault rifles"

Link
 
2013-01-15 09:02:04 AM
We don't ban fast cars, but they are more expensive to purchase and insure, and if you speed or drive recklessly, you get expensive tickets and your driver's license or vehicle registration can be revoked.

In most states it is easier to buy a gun than it is to get a driver's license.
 
2013-01-15 09:02:17 AM
Great headline subby...
 
2013-01-15 09:02:56 AM
Hard limit of 6 shots in any weapon, no changeable magazines (ammo has to be loaded individually), no room for attaching extended magazines, exceptions can be made for primary producers and professional shooters. Gun owners must have attended a saftey course and have a gun safe, guns must be kept locked in it whenever gun owners are not at home.

Helps stop major massacres (hard limit on ammo capacity means less bullets before a reload is needed, and slower reloads), and helps prevent gun thefts (a major way guns make it onto the black market). It isn't perfect, but it would be a start.
 
2013-01-15 09:04:29 AM

maddermaxx: Hard limit of 6 shots in any weapon, no changeable magazines (ammo has to be loaded individually), no room for attaching extended magazines, exceptions can be made for primary producers and professional shooters.


How, exactly, will you address the millions of firearms owned by civilians that do not comply with the unreasonable restrictions that you have recommended?
 
2013-01-15 09:05:44 AM

Diogenes: I prefer to drive a stick


Hehe, yeah, we know.
 
2013-01-15 09:06:52 AM

LasersHurt: I'm not playing your game. I am just saying that the argument of ""assault" rifles isn't a good term, and rifles are barely ever used for shootings" leads naturally to a discussion of the guns that ARE used for that.


I suppose that's fair enough.

I'm also maybe making a reprise of "stop saying NO to everything and try to do something constructive," but in a gentle way.

Personally, I think that fighting every new gun control measure is constructive. But that's just like my opinion, man.
 
2013-01-15 09:06:59 AM
I would love for firearms to be as heavily regulated as cars.

You must purchase private insurance for it to cover misuse, you must register your ownership of it with a state agency every two years, you must clearly display a state-issued identifying marker on it, you must have it inspected for safety by a state-licensed mechanic every year, each individual operator requires training and a state-issued license that must be renewed every so often, sizable penalties (including revocation of license, fines, and jail time) for failure to comply with any of the above regulations...
 
2013-01-15 09:08:09 AM

qorkfiend: I would love for firearms to be as heavily regulated as cars.

You must purchase private insurance for it to cover misuse, you must register your ownership of it with a state agency every two years, you must clearly display a state-issued identifying marker on it, you must have it inspected for safety by a state-licensed mechanic every year, each individual operator requires training and a state-issued license that must be renewed every so often, sizable penalties (including revocation of license, fines, and jail time) for failure to comply with any of the above regulations...


Obviously, of course, under such a system my license for carrying a firearm in public, issued by the state of Kentucky, would allow me to carry a firearm in public in all fifty states.
 
2013-01-15 09:08:09 AM
Firearm equivalent to speed limit? How about a flintlock pistol/rifle?
 
2013-01-15 09:08:32 AM

qorkfiend: I would love for firearms to be as heavily regulated as cars.

You must purchase private insurance for it to cover misuse, you must register your ownership of it with a state agency every two years, you must clearly display a state-issued identifying marker on it, you must have it inspected for safety by a state-licensed mechanic every year, each individual operator requires training and a state-issued license that must be renewed every so often, sizable penalties (including revocation of license, fines, and jail time) for failure to comply with any of the above regulations...


Cars aren't regulated that heavy in a lot of states.
 
2013-01-15 09:09:36 AM
If any of these derps try and steal my god given right to drive my 911 over 100 in a 50 by GOD I will scream and yell like a little brat!
 
2013-01-15 09:10:42 AM

qorkfiend: I would love for firearms to be as heavily regulated as cars.

You must purchase private insurance for it to cover misuse, you must register your ownership of it with a state agency every two years, you must clearly display a state-issued identifying marker on it, you must have it inspected for safety by a state-licensed mechanic every year, each individual operator requires training and a state-issued license that must be renewed every so often, sizable penalties (including revocation of license, fines, and jail time) for failure to comply with any of the above regulations...


In some states (MA for example) you pay an excise tax to your local town based on the value of the vehicle.
 
2013-01-15 09:10:49 AM

Frank N Stein: Personally, I think that fighting every new gun control measure is constructive. But that's just like my opinion, man.


I happen to disagree. We don't have a first-world gun crime rate. I'd like to see it fixed. Among the many things that will take is some Gun Control (Control, not, you know, stealy stealy take bans).
 
2013-01-15 09:12:37 AM
The derp seems very strong today with the wingnuts on Fark. Several threads of various items with equally baseless claims.

Maybe with the actual inauguration just a bit away, the fundie wingnuts are getting the shakes and have taken to uncorking all those hidden bottles they stashed.

Weird..maybe they need an Intervention
 
2013-01-15 09:12:58 AM

Dimensio: maddermaxx: Hard limit of 6 shots in any weapon, no changeable magazines (ammo has to be loaded individually), no room for attaching extended magazines, exceptions can be made for primary producers and professional shooters.

How, exactly, will you address the millions of firearms owned by civilians that do not comply with the unreasonable restrictions that you have recommended?


Grandfather in current weapons, if registered, and have a gun buy back scheme. After 10 years, resistration of such guns would cease to be transferrable (but could be kept by an individual). It would take a fair few years for it to have much of an impact, but there is no quick or easy solution, and simply removing all the guns in circulation would be far more contentious, especially as it would involve removal and destruction of recently bought weapons. The details are debatable, of course.
 
2013-01-15 09:14:50 AM

maddermaxx: Dimensio: maddermaxx: Hard limit of 6 shots in any weapon, no changeable magazines (ammo has to be loaded individually), no room for attaching extended magazines, exceptions can be made for primary producers and professional shooters.

How, exactly, will you address the millions of firearms owned by civilians that do not comply with the unreasonable restrictions that you have recommended?

Grandfather in current weapons, if registered, and have a gun buy back scheme. After 10 years, resistration of such guns would cease to be transferrable (but could be kept by an individual). It would take a fair few years for it to have much of an impact, but there is no quick or easy solution, and simply removing all the guns in circulation would be far more contentious, especially as it would involve removal and destruction of recently bought weapons. The details are debatable, of course.


I have a counter-proposal to your suggestion of limiting firearms:
How about No.
 
2013-01-15 09:16:32 AM

Dimensio: maddermaxx: Dimensio: maddermaxx: Hard limit of 6 shots in any weapon, no changeable magazines (ammo has to be loaded individually), no room for attaching extended magazines, exceptions can be made for primary producers and professional shooters.

How, exactly, will you address the millions of firearms owned by civilians that do not comply with the unreasonable restrictions that you have recommended?

Grandfather in current weapons, if registered, and have a gun buy back scheme. After 10 years, resistration of such guns would cease to be transferrable (but could be kept by an individual). It would take a fair few years for it to have much of an impact, but there is no quick or easy solution, and simply removing all the guns in circulation would be far more contentious, especially as it would involve removal and destruction of recently bought weapons. The details are debatable, of course.

I have a counter-proposal to your suggestion of limiting firearms:
How about No.


Firearms are already limited - see full-auto weapons, flame throwers and RPGs. We're just debating what those limits should be.
 
2013-01-15 09:17:41 AM
Something something tyranny. Blah blah tree of liberty watered with blood blah blah blah

Frank N Stein: Personally, I think that fighting every new gun control measure is constructive. But that's just like my opinion, man.


And this is why the extreme pro-gun will be ignored
 
2013-01-15 09:17:45 AM

qorkfiend: I would love for firearms to be as heavily regulated as cars.

You must purchase private insurance for it to cover misuse, you must register your ownership of it with a state agency every two years, you must clearly display a state-issued identifying marker on it, you must have it inspected for safety by a state-licensed mechanic every year, each individual operator requires training and a state-issued license that must be renewed every so often, sizable penalties (including revocation of license, fines, and jail time) for failure to comply with any of the above regulations...


You forgot the two vehicle regulations which would cause the loudest OUTRAGE!!! if transferred to firearms: having to pay an annual tax and / or registration fee, and the near-complete illegality of operating one while under the influence of alcohol.
 
2013-01-15 09:18:18 AM

vernonFL: We don't ban fast cars, but they are more expensive to purchase and insure, and if you speed or drive recklessly, you get expensive tickets and your driver's license or vehicle registration can be revoked.

In most states it is easier to buy a gun than it is to get a driver's license.


See, this is the point that I keep trying to make with the gun people in my family. If you're going to compare guns to road-legal cars, then gun owners need to be treated like car owners, including registration and insurance.
 
2013-01-15 09:18:37 AM

maddermaxx: Dimensio: maddermaxx: Dimensio: maddermaxx: Hard limit of 6 shots in any weapon, no changeable magazines (ammo has to be loaded individually), no room for attaching extended magazines, exceptions can be made for primary producers and professional shooters.

How, exactly, will you address the millions of firearms owned by civilians that do not comply with the unreasonable restrictions that you have recommended?

Grandfather in current weapons, if registered, and have a gun buy back scheme. After 10 years, resistration of such guns would cease to be transferrable (but could be kept by an individual). It would take a fair few years for it to have much of an impact, but there is no quick or easy solution, and simply removing all the guns in circulation would be far more contentious, especially as it would involve removal and destruction of recently bought weapons. The details are debatable, of course.

I have a counter-proposal to your suggestion of limiting firearms:
How about No.

Firearms are already limited - see full-auto weapons, flame throwers and RPGs. We're just debating what those limits should be.


Flamethrowers are not "firearms" and are not federally regulated. Rocket-propelled grenades, while regulated, are not firearms. A "limit" regarding firearms was already established with the National Firearms Act.
 
2013-01-15 09:19:11 AM
Nice analogy.

1. We ban plenty of vehicles from the road from being too fast, too large, too heavy etc.. You can't drive a F1 car to Publix.
2. Cars aren't a constitutional right, so even though we do ban cars, it doesn't translate to firearms in analogous terms.
3. You left yourself open to an attack on clips (THEY'RE CALLED MAGAZINES OMIGOD HA HA HA) with your own analogy.

You make the people at Newsmax look smart.
 
2013-01-15 09:20:05 AM

Dimensio: qorkfiend: I would love for firearms to be as heavily regulated as cars.

You must purchase private insurance for it to cover misuse, you must register your ownership of it with a state agency every two years, you must clearly display a state-issued identifying marker on it, you must have it inspected for safety by a state-licensed mechanic every year, each individual operator requires training and a state-issued license that must be renewed every so often, sizable penalties (including revocation of license, fines, and jail time) for failure to comply with any of the above regulations...

Obviously, of course, under such a system my license for carrying a firearm in public, issued by the state of Kentucky, would allow me to carry a firearm in public in all fifty states.


You know, I'd be fine with such a compromise.
 
2013-01-15 09:20:40 AM

Arkanaut: Diogenes: I prefer to drive a stick

Hehe, yeah, we know.


Consistency, my friend!
 
2013-01-15 09:22:22 AM

LasersHurt: I happen to disagree. We don't have a first-world gun crime rate. I'd like to see it fixed. Among the many things that will take is some Gun Control (Control, not, you know, stealy stealy take bans).


I suppose then we could both agree that strengthening existing background checks would be a good thing, no? I would also couple that with national concealed carry reciprocity. But I suspect we probably differ on that issue.
 
2013-01-15 09:25:38 AM

Dimensio: maddermaxx: Dimensio: maddermaxx: Dimensio: maddermaxx: Hard limit of 6 shots in any weapon, no changeable magazines (ammo has to be loaded individually), no room for attaching extended magazines, exceptions can be made for primary producers and professional shooters.

How, exactly, will you address the millions of firearms owned by civilians that do not comply with the unreasonable restrictions that you have recommended?

Grandfather in current weapons, if registered, and have a gun buy back scheme. After 10 years, resistration of such guns would cease to be transferrable (but could be kept by an individual). It would take a fair few years for it to have much of an impact, but there is no quick or easy solution, and simply removing all the guns in circulation would be far more contentious, especially as it would involve removal and destruction of recently bought weapons. The details are debatable, of course.

I have a counter-proposal to your suggestion of limiting firearms:
How about No.

Firearms are already limited - see full-auto weapons, flame throwers and RPGs. We're just debating what those limits should be.

Flamethrowers are not "firearms" and are not federally regulated. Rocket-propelled grenades, while regulated, are not firearms. A "limit" regarding firearms was already established with the National Firearms Act.


And that Act can be amended.
 
2013-01-15 09:25:53 AM

Frank N Stein: LasersHurt: I happen to disagree. We don't have a first-world gun crime rate. I'd like to see it fixed. Among the many things that will take is some Gun Control (Control, not, you know, stealy stealy take bans).

I suppose then we could both agree that strengthening existing background checks would be a good thing, no? I would also couple that with national concealed carry reciprocity. But I suspect we probably differ on that issue.


I would agree to stronger checks, sure. I'd also like to require private sales to use a licensed seller as a go-between (like going to a notary kind of) so a check can be done there as well. I'm a registry enthusiast, because every illegal gun starts legal somewhere, and eventually goes wrong.

I don't know about the concealed carry reciprocity. On one hand, a really responsible person who goes through the trouble to get a carry license is probably not a danger. On the other, I don't want or encourage a world where we're all armed like it's the Wild Wild West. And you'd definitely have to get rid of the Stand your Ground laws where they are (otherwise known as the "no witnesses" law).
 
2013-01-15 09:26:18 AM

Karac: qorkfiend: I would love for firearms to be as heavily regulated as cars.

You must purchase private insurance for it to cover misuse, you must register your ownership of it with a state agency every two years, you must clearly display a state-issued identifying marker on it, you must have it inspected for safety by a state-licensed mechanic every year, each individual operator requires training and a state-issued license that must be renewed every so often, sizable penalties (including revocation of license, fines, and jail time) for failure to comply with any of the above regulations...

You forgot the two vehicle regulations which would cause the loudest OUTRAGE!!! if transferred to firearms: having to pay an annual tax and / or registration fee, and the near-complete illegality of operating one while under the influence of alcohol.


Don't forget having police at every shooting range to enforce the laws handing out tickets for infractions. Maybe a check on entering to make sure your license and insurance is up to date? Of course, if you've done nothing wrong then you have nothing to worry about, right citizen?
 
2013-01-15 09:30:40 AM

maddermaxx: Dimensio: maddermaxx: Dimensio: maddermaxx: Dimensio: maddermaxx: Hard limit of 6 shots in any weapon, no changeable magazines (ammo has to be loaded individually), no room for attaching extended magazines, exceptions can be made for primary producers and professional shooters.

How, exactly, will you address the millions of firearms owned by civilians that do not comply with the unreasonable restrictions that you have recommended?

Grandfather in current weapons, if registered, and have a gun buy back scheme. After 10 years, resistration of such guns would cease to be transferrable (but could be kept by an individual). It would take a fair few years for it to have much of an impact, but there is no quick or easy solution, and simply removing all the guns in circulation would be far more contentious, especially as it would involve removal and destruction of recently bought weapons. The details are debatable, of course.

I have a counter-proposal to your suggestion of limiting firearms:
How about No.

Firearms are already limited - see full-auto weapons, flame throwers and RPGs. We're just debating what those limits should be.

Flamethrowers are not "firearms" and are not federally regulated. Rocket-propelled grenades, while regulated, are not firearms. A "limit" regarding firearms was already established with the National Firearms Act.

And that Act can be amended.


The I propose, as a compromise to your position, repealing the Hughes Amendment to to Firearm Owner's Protection Act.
 
2013-01-15 09:33:31 AM
Is this the thread where we mention how this infringes upon all our manly rights and explain how much of an expert we are with our penis replacements?
 
2013-01-15 09:33:49 AM

Lost Thought 00: Dimensio: qorkfiend: I would love for firearms to be as heavily regulated as cars.

You must purchase private insurance for it to cover misuse, you must register your ownership of it with a state agency every two years, you must clearly display a state-issued identifying marker on it, you must have it inspected for safety by a state-licensed mechanic every year, each individual operator requires training and a state-issued license that must be renewed every so often, sizable penalties (including revocation of license, fines, and jail time) for failure to comply with any of the above regulations...

Obviously, of course, under such a system my license for carrying a firearm in public, issued by the state of Kentucky, would allow me to carry a firearm in public in all fifty states.

You know, I'd be fine with such a compromise.


Me too.
 
2013-01-15 09:35:47 AM

Epoch_Zero: Is this the thread where we mention how this infringes upon all our manly rights and explain how much of an expert we are with our penis replacements?


Naah, the Corvette thread is in a different tab.

/has an acquaintance who is a gun nut and owns a 'vette
 
2013-01-15 09:38:56 AM

Pocket Ninja: Subby, those intrepid folk at Townhall so rarely venture into the world of metaphor that it's probably best you just let them have this one without trying to flesh it out any. Just give them a little pat on their precious little head and move along.


Bless their hearts.
 
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