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(Washington Post)   From the "it's only true when WE say it dept" - "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. I therefore oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit"   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 64
    More: Sad, leadership failure, mandatory spending, SCHIP, Senate Budget Committee, national debt, debts, tax bill  
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1414 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Jan 2013 at 9:18 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-15 08:34:23 AM  
So, what, Obama is a closet Republican, then?
 
2013-01-15 08:39:19 AM  
I'm pretty sure that Obama would fully, 100% support the GOP doing what he did in 2006 - rant against the debt ceiling, call it a failure of leadership, vote against it on an individual level if they don't need your vote, but don't stop it from being raised.
 
2013-01-15 08:41:05 AM  
Are you telling me that a politician participated in partisan speech?

WOW
 
2013-01-15 09:00:39 AM  
Are you guys, like, stuck in months ago?

Someone will post a link showing Obama's comments about that from years later - he walked it back, talked about how being in the Presidency gave him more clarity, etc. Said it was a mistake.

Others will say this doesn't matter, and anyone who says anything contradictory in their lifespans is Hitler Forever.

/summary
 
2013-01-15 09:10:41 AM  
 "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government can't pay its own bills. ... I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit."  - Barack Obama

Wash, rinse, repeat.
 
2013-01-15 09:23:45 AM  
"I think that it's important to understand the vantage point of a senator versus the vantage point of a president. When you're a senator, traditionally what's happened is, this is always a lousy vote. Nobody likes to be tagged as having increased the debt limit for the United States by a trillion dollars. As president, you start realizing, you know what, we, we can't play around with this stuff. This is the full faith and credit of the United States. And so that was just an example of a new senator making what is a political vote as opposed to doing what was important for the country. And I'm the first one to acknowledge it." -also Barack Obama
 
2013-01-15 09:28:52 AM  
Deficit spending in good times = irresponsible.
Deficit spending in lean times = responsible.

Seems consistent to me.
 
2013-01-15 09:29:50 AM  
And this is why when the House Republicans, through their irascible stupidity and pig-headed incompetance refuse to authorize payments for programs they already approved and start a worldwide recession, or perhaps depression, that it will all be Obama's fault.
 
2013-01-15 09:29:53 AM  
President Obama and congress is asking Americans to max out the credit cards of our yet to be born grand children.
Its selfish and so very wrong.
 
2013-01-15 09:31:17 AM  

Tyee: President Obama and congress is asking Americans to max out the credit cards of our yet to be born grand children.
Its selfish and so very wrong.


Maybe they should ask us to spend a little more money on basic grammar. Looks like you could use the help.
 
2013-01-15 09:33:31 AM  
I agree. Wait, where's the word 'Congressional' in the headline?
 
2013-01-15 09:33:33 AM  
Did he fillibuster the debt ceiling? No? Then STFU
 
2013-01-15 09:36:28 AM  
Get rid of the debt limit.
 
2013-01-15 09:40:18 AM  

Tyee: President Obama and congress is asking Americans to max out the credit cards of our yet to be born grand children.
Its selfish and so very wrong.


Or, he is trying to get congress to pay the bills and rescue an economy that was almost destroyed by the people who ran up the tab in the first place and now pretend to care about debt.

This sort of fiscal conservatism sure would have been nice from 1980-2008 though.
 
2013-01-15 09:41:44 AM  
Whats the point of a debt limit if you just keep raising it?

NO POINT.
More kabuki from your bread and circuses specialists.
 
2013-01-15 09:42:25 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Whats the point of a debt limit if you just keep raising it?

NO POINT.
More kabuki from your bread and circuses specialists.


Do you not know what the debt limit is? It doesn't serve a useful function.
 
2013-01-15 09:45:20 AM  

LasersHurt: Someone will post a link showing Obama's comments about that from years later - he walked it back, talked about how being in the Presidency gave him more clarity, etc. Said it was a mistake.


See? Sign of weakness right there. Bush never made a mistake. How do I know? He never said he made a mistake, that's how.
 
2013-01-15 09:48:43 AM  

Tyee: President Obama and congress is asking Americans to max out the credit cards of our yet to be born grand children.
Its selfish and so very wrong.


Probably should have thought of that before we invaded Iraq and cut taxes. But we didn't and now we're stuck with a middling economy and a Congress that only cares about making the President look bad no matter how many people suffer
 
2013-01-15 09:52:15 AM  
it's not a leadership failure, it's part of a plan. think about that pre-election movie by that indian conservative guy. did you watch it? ok, now consider that to be the first step... what we really gotta watch is what happens with the guns, because if there's less guns in society it slightly changes the course of things, but the goal and the target is the same, bring down rich whitey, equalize wealth. it's going to be a bumpy ride and very entertaining, just try to avoid looking like a 'have', because gas chambers and the guillotine don't feel so good.
 
2013-01-15 09:53:12 AM  

utah dude: it's not a leadership failure, it's part of a plan. think about that pre-election movie by that indian conservative guy. did you watch it? ok, now consider that to be the first step... what we really gotta watch is what happens with the guns, because if there's less guns in society it slightly changes the course of things, but the goal and the target is the same, bring down rich whitey, equalize wealth. it's going to be a bumpy ride and very entertaining, just try to avoid looking like a 'have', because gas chambers and the guillotine don't feel so good.


this: http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/talktojazeera/2013/01/201311294541 129427.html
 
2013-01-15 09:56:05 AM  
Deficit spending during a recession in an attempt to stimulate the economy != deficit spending during a false expansion that is going to pop like a balloon because you started two wars and encouraged everybody that could fog a mirror to buy a house.


/keysean econonomics....how do they work?
 
2013-01-15 10:06:39 AM  
Remember 2006? When the economy was "great" and unemployment was low? And we had to raise the debt ceiling to pay for wars and tax cuts that weren't really needed. Turns out when all the "good" stuff goes away and all the bad stuff is still there, you might have an actual need to raise the debt ceiling. And given how much pants shiatting went on when sequester was mentioned, is there really another option? Don't act like most "liberals" (anyone to the left of the Republicans) are giving the President or Congress a free pass on this.
 
2013-01-15 10:14:21 AM  
1. belligerently oppose everything the president suggests
2. nothing gets done
3. claim president fails at leading


/4. profit?
 
2013-01-15 10:17:22 AM  
So much fail in that article. Deficit spending during good times is a horrific idea. Deficit spending now is a OK idea. Deficit spending last year was a GREAT idea. Im hoping deficit spending in 2014 is a bad idea again.

Its like everyone thinks that a nations economy is somehow EXACTLY like their household finances.
 
2013-01-15 10:22:47 AM  

Greywar: So much fail in that article. Deficit spending during good times is a horrific idea. Deficit spending now is a OK idea. Deficit spending last year was a GREAT idea. Im hoping deficit spending in 2014 is a bad idea again.

Its like everyone thinks that a nations economy is somehow EXACTLY like their household finances.


The Republican worldview in general is hopelessly simplistic. The economy of a superpower is analogous to household finances, Global politics are divided into 'Good guys' and 'Bad guys'. Their morality is based around the Bible and/or Ayn Rand, and other ideas of morality are seldom, if ever, even considered., Opposing viewpoints are automatically labelled 'Liberal' (Which falls under 'Bad guys'), no matter where the viewpoint sits on the political spectrum.

That simplicity, in itself, is the problem with the modern GOP. The Democrats are far from perfect in that regard, but it's much more egregious with the GOP.
 
2013-01-15 10:35:38 AM  

Tyee: President Obama and congress is asking Americans to max out the credit cards of our yet to be born grand children.
Its selfish and so very wrong.


Agreed. But Congress decides what we spend the $ on. And in the past 30 years, when we've had a Republican Congress and a Republican President, they have managed to increase the deficit and long term debt far beyond what Democratic administrations have done.

We may need a new approach, but a Congressional House full of crazy who deny facts to push an extremist agenda is not that approach.

Raise the debt ceiling to pay for what has already been approved and work on reducing what's approved in the next budget to avoid this debt ceiling debacle every year (or every 3-6 months like we are doing now).
 
2013-01-15 10:39:35 AM  

LasersHurt: HotIgneous Intruder: Whats the point of a debt limit if you just keep raising it?

NO POINT.
More kabuki from your bread and circuses specialists.

Do you not know what the debt limit is? It doesn't serve a useful function.


Um, it serves a massively useful function.

The Congress authorizes *only Congress* to borrow money on the credit of the United States. So when the Treasury needs to borrow money -- either because of a budget deficit, or because tax revenues collected to date don't equal the current expenses of the government, Congress needs to authorize every bond sale.

Rather than do that, since WWI, Congress has created a debt ceiling which the Treasury can borrow up to without having to ask Congress for authorization.

If you get rid of the debt ceiling, you have this fight every day, as the Treasury has to issue bonds constantly, and will have to for years and years.
 
2013-01-15 10:41:30 AM  

theknuckler_33: 1. belligerently oppose everything the president suggests
2. nothing gets done
3. claim president fails at leading


/4. profit?


that's a quote from BO.
 
2013-01-15 10:42:13 AM  

Larry Mahnken: If you get rid of the debt ceiling, you have this fight every day, as the Treasury has to issue bonds constantly, and will have to for years and years.


You realize they can just pass a law saying the executive branch is authorized to borrow any money necessary to pay the bills required under appropriation, right?
 
2013-01-15 10:46:31 AM  

DamnYankees: Larry Mahnken: If you get rid of the debt ceiling, you have this fight every day, as the Treasury has to issue bonds constantly, and will have to for years and years.

You realize they can just pass a law saying the executive branch is authorized to borrow any money necessary to pay the bills required under appropriation, right?


I think I see a flaw in your assessment.
 
2013-01-15 10:51:34 AM  
Law #1, passed by Congress: You, the president, must spend a specific amount of money on a specific list of things. There are a few discretionary accounts, but those are a minor percentage of the whole.

Law #2, passed by Congress: Here is the money we raised from the constitutional power we have to levy taxes. You will note it is not enough to cover the commitments in Law #1.

Law #3, the debt limit: You may not borrow any more money to meet the commitments we made in Law #1.

Result: IMPEACH IMPEACH! The presidential guy violated his oathy thingy!. TAX AND SPEND LIBRULZ.

That's how it works.
 
2013-01-15 10:51:55 AM  

Tyee: President Obama and congress is asking Americans to max out the credit cards of our yet to be born grand children.
Its selfish and so very wrong.


The fact that you think that the US debt is a credit card is laughable. The problem you have is a lack of imagination. The US does not have a hard debt limit, and if we did we are nowhere near that limit.

The question is how can you tell what the US borrowing limit is? Well when interest rates, which are currently ridiculously low, are high. When bonds are attractive and not just a place to park money you have no idea what else to do with. When the US has trouble selling bonds. Then we would be approaching the true debt limit. This imposed one is artificial.

The US will run deficits and debts from now until it no longer functions as a government. Not expanding the debt ceiling will only crash the economy today and hasten the end of the United States of America.
 
2013-01-15 10:56:48 AM  

Larry Mahnken: LasersHurt: HotIgneous Intruder: Whats the point of a debt limit if you just keep raising it?

NO POINT.
More kabuki from your bread and circuses specialists.

Do you not know what the debt limit is? It doesn't serve a useful function.

Um, it serves a massively useful function.

The Congress authorizes *only Congress* to borrow money on the credit of the United States. So when the Treasury needs to borrow money -- either because of a budget deficit, or because tax revenues collected to date don't equal the current expenses of the government, Congress needs to authorize every bond sale.

Rather than do that, since WWI, Congress has created a debt ceiling which the Treasury can borrow up to without having to ask Congress for authorization.

If you get rid of the debt ceiling, you have this fight every day, as the Treasury has to issue bonds constantly, and will have to for years and years.


There is only one other developed country on the planet that has a debt ceiling like we do. That's Denmark. And even they are a piss-poor comparison for us because their debt ceiling is so ridiculously high that they haven't raised it in decades. Every other country has a blanket grant to their Treasury allowing them to borrow funds when revenues fall short. We are the only country that requires Congress to grandstand about how they are serious about the debt even though they're raising the debt ceiling for the eleventy-jillionth time.
 
2013-01-15 10:59:02 AM  
Partisan hacks from one side of the aisle will call him a hypocrite.

Partisan hacks from the other side will claim he has learned from experience.

The truth is it is just politics. Both sides are looking out for themselves.
 
2013-01-15 11:01:39 AM  

Tyee: President Obama and congress is asking Americans to max out the credit cards of our yet to be born grand children.
Its selfish and so very wrong.


No. The credit cards are already used. Obama is saying you have to make your monthly payment.
 
2013-01-15 11:02:27 AM  
The thing is, when Obama and the dems opposed raising the debt ceiling in 2006 the media portrayed them as heroic patriots standing up for what's right.
Now, when the Republicans do the same thing the media portrays them as uncompromising children willing to send this country into a recession over petty politics.

Credit cards have limits for a reason.
 
2013-01-15 11:03:37 AM  

utah dude: it's not a leadership failure, it's part of a plan. think about that pre-election movie by that indian conservative guy. did you watch it? ok, now consider that to be the first step... what we really gotta watch is what happens with the guns, because if there's less guns in society it slightly changes the course of things, but the goal and the target is the same, bring down rich whitey, equalize wealth. it's going to be a bumpy ride and very entertaining, just try to avoid looking like a 'have', because gas chambers and the guillotine don't feel so good.


So was every other time the debt ceiling was raised in history an excuse to get whitey as well, or are you just an imbecile?
 
2013-01-15 11:05:38 AM  

SlothB77: The thing is, when Obama and the dems opposed raising the debt ceiling in 2006 the media portrayed them as heroic patriots standing up for what's right.
Now, when the Republicans do the same thing the media portrays them as uncompromising children willing to send this country into a recession over petty politics.


These aren't the same thing. Dems voiced their opposition, but never actually threatened to ruin the full faith and credit of the US. The GOP is doing just that. The GOP is getting a lot of pushback on this, as they should, and they're starting to realize maybe it's not the best idea.
 
2013-01-15 11:06:20 AM  

SlothB77: The thing is, when Obama and the dems opposed raising the debt ceiling in 2006 the media portrayed them as heroic patriots standing up for what's right.
Now, when the Republicans do the same thing the media portrays them as uncompromising children willing to send this country into a recession over petty politics.

Credit cards have limits for a reason.


I find it humorous that you say "the media" as if there is only one news channel and we all watch it.
 
2013-01-15 11:09:22 AM  

BSABSVR: Tyee: President Obama and congress is asking Americans to max out the credit cards of our yet to be born grand children.
Its selfish and so very wrong.

No. The credit cards are already used. Obama is saying you have to make your monthly payment.


I am all for expanding the debt limit and continuing the spending until the economy is well back on track but this is bogus. We could eliminate the need for future debt ceiling increases by cutting spending. You make it sound as if debt service is the only reason we need to increase the limit. Our annual deficit is in excess of the cost of servicing our existing debt.
 
2013-01-15 11:15:28 AM  
think about that pre-election movie by that indian conservative guy


Ahhhh hahahahaha holy shiattttt are you for real
 
2013-01-15 11:16:41 AM  

skullkrusher: BSABSVR: Tyee: President Obama and congress is asking Americans to max out the credit cards of our yet to be born grand children.
Its selfish and so very wrong.

No. The credit cards are already used. Obama is saying you have to make your monthly payment.

I am all for expanding the debt limit and continuing the spending until the economy is well back on track but this is bogus. We could eliminate the need for future debt ceiling increases by cutting spending. You make it sound as if debt service is the only reason we need to increase the limit. Our annual deficit is in excess of the cost of servicing our existing debt.


The only two ways we could get away with never raising the debt ceiling again are:

- Abolishing it outright, and
- Starting tomorrow, always running a balanced budget.

The Republicans don't want to do the first option. They also don't want to do the second option. How can I take them seriously if they aren't willing to do what they claim to be necessary?
 
2013-01-15 11:18:26 AM  

Serious Black: The Republicans don't want to do the first option. They also don't want to do the second option. How can I take them seriously if they aren't willing to do what they claim to be necessary?


I'm not asking you to take them seriously.
 
2013-01-15 11:22:51 AM  

skullkrusher: BSABSVR: Tyee: President Obama and congress is asking Americans to max out the credit cards of our yet to be born grand children.
Its selfish and so very wrong.

No. The credit cards are already used. Obama is saying you have to make your monthly payment.

I am all for expanding the debt limit and continuing the spending until the economy is well back on track but this is bogus. We could eliminate the need for future debt ceiling increases by cutting spending. You make it sound as if debt service is the only reason we need to increase the limit. Our annual deficit is in excess of the cost of servicing our existing debt.


You are all for continuing spending until the economy is well back on track but we need to cut spending rather than rasie the debt limit?
 
2013-01-15 11:24:08 AM  

skullkrusher: BSABSVR: Tyee: President Obama and congress is asking Americans to max out the credit cards of our yet to be born grand children.
Its selfish and so very wrong.

No. The credit cards are already used. Obama is saying you have to make your monthly payment.

I am all for expanding the debt limit and continuing the spending until the economy is well back on track but this is bogus. We could eliminate the need for future debt ceiling increases by cutting spending. You make it sound as if debt service is the only reason we need to increase the limit. Our annual deficit is in excess of the cost of servicing our existing debt.


Yes. And the time to talk about that is during the budget cycle (and yes I know that isn't exactly happening either). Of course, even though "government spending" is unpopular, almost all significant spending is popular, which is why the only cuts that anyone ever suggests are either drops in the bucket, or SS/Medicare changes that won't take effect for 20 years.
 
2013-01-15 11:27:06 AM  

Jackson Herring: think about that pre-election movie by that indian conservative guy


Ahhhh hahahahaha holy shiattttt are you for real


Black families will be getting into fistfights over monopoly any day now. You can read about it in my new e-book "Top Hat Bleed a Lot".
 
2013-01-15 11:27:11 AM  

jst3p: skullkrusher: BSABSVR: Tyee: President Obama and congress is asking Americans to max out the credit cards of our yet to be born grand children.
Its selfish and so very wrong.

No. The credit cards are already used. Obama is saying you have to make your monthly payment.

I am all for expanding the debt limit and continuing the spending until the economy is well back on track but this is bogus. We could eliminate the need for future debt ceiling increases by cutting spending. You make it sound as if debt service is the only reason we need to increase the limit. Our annual deficit is in excess of the cost of servicing our existing debt.

You are all for continuing spending until the economy is well back on track but we need to cut spending rather than rasie the debt limit?


I shouldn't have had to do that for you
 
2013-01-15 11:27:46 AM  

BSABSVR: Yes. And the time to talk about that is during the budget cycle (and yes I know that isn't exactly happening either). Of course, even though "government spending" is unpopular, almost all significant spending is popular, which is why the only cuts that anyone ever suggests are either drops in the bucket, or SS/Medicare changes that won't take effect for 20 years.


as I said, not the time to cut spending
 
2013-01-15 11:44:35 AM  
So wait, are you telling me that nothing changed in the 7 years since he made that speech?
 
2013-01-15 11:49:03 AM  

heinekenftw: So wait, are you telling me that nothing changed in the 7 years since he made that speech?


well, yeah, a black guy became President
 
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