If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Daily Mail)   Adultsineurope killed by euthanasia   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 182
    More: Sad, Bring Euthanasia, hospital bed, uk laws  
•       •       •

15749 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jan 2013 at 4:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



182 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-01-14 03:27:50 PM
qph.cf.quoracdn.net
 
2013-01-14 03:30:06 PM
0bamacare v1.0
 
2013-01-14 03:37:57 PM
It took me a bit to get the joke.
 
2013-01-14 03:48:18 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: 0bamacare v1.0


I already did that in the other thread.
 
2013-01-14 04:08:48 PM
Deaf Panels
 
2013-01-14 04:13:03 PM
...see, Jenny McCarthy told us vaccines were bad.
 
2013-01-14 04:16:23 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: Deaf Panels


i236.photobucket.com

Approves.

/Thank you Cheddar.
 
2013-01-14 04:24:01 PM
Well, this thread is off to a good start. Excellent work subby.
 
2013-01-14 04:26:51 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: Deaf Panels


And that's it for the thread, ladies and gentlemen.  Someone get the lights.
 
2013-01-14 04:31:46 PM
"I can't quit you!"

"Who said that?"
 
2013-01-14 04:33:09 PM
Good headline, sad story.
 
2013-01-14 04:34:23 PM
On the one hand, I suppose it was their own choice.

On the other hand, damn, wtf? Giving up a bit easily, aren't we?
 
2013-01-14 04:35:12 PM
Damn kids.
 
2013-01-14 04:36:11 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-14 04:36:13 PM
I'm going to the special hell for laughing at that headline.
 
2013-01-14 04:38:14 PM
MMMUURGGLMMPPHHEEEYCHSDSDTGGHTHT" *

www.nndb.com

/*"That's really sad"
 
2013-01-14 04:39:02 PM
img.youtube.com
 
2013-01-14 04:39:04 PM

tricycleracer: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375]


But enough about getting rid of Grandma by getting her a one way ticket to China.
 
2013-01-14 04:39:05 PM
Didn't The Daily Mail get caught making up stories a while back? I don't believe much of anything they claim.

If it is true, then... okay. Probably not something I would do, but if they're of sound mind, it's their choice.
 
2013-01-14 04:39:27 PM
My sister applied for a scholarship that had an interview component. When one of the girls came back from her interview, they asked her how it went. It was at that moment that the girl realized the question had been about "euthanasia," not "youth in Asia."
 
2013-01-14 04:40:06 PM
I think the Spiffy tag would be more appropriate. They wanted to die, it's not sad. It's amazing they got their wish.
 
2013-01-14 04:40:18 PM
Euthanasia? Isn't that a vaccine?
 
2013-01-14 04:40:34 PM
R.I.P. P.O.D.
991.com
 
2013-01-14 04:40:59 PM

Wayne 985: Didn't The Daily Mail get caught making up stories a while back? I don't believe much of anything they claim.

If it is true, then... okay. Probably not something I would do, but if they're of sound mind, it's their choice.


There was another article on this from another source and a really trolly headline in the queue earlier, but I'm too lazy to go find it.  I think it's legit.  Sad story.
 
2013-01-14 04:41:23 PM
Being either deaf or blind is one thing, but being deaf already - relying on sign language and visual cues for every bit of human interaction, communication, and basic information required to function and care for oneself - losing sight under those circumstances would have been devastating. They would have gone from employed and functional to completely unable to care for themselves. Not something to want to live with.
I doubt this had to do with not seeing each others faces again.
 
2013-01-14 04:42:54 PM
upload.wikimedia.org
We run for yutes in Asia.
 
2013-01-14 04:43:35 PM
i see what you did there subby.

/so dont kill me
 
2013-01-14 04:44:11 PM
My first greenlight!
 
2013-01-14 04:46:20 PM
repeat from 1933-45?
 
2013-01-14 04:47:04 PM
userserve-ak.last.fm

obscure?
 
2013-01-14 04:47:56 PM

whistleridge: [userserve-ak.last.fm image 450x332]

obscure?


Also, is it just me, or does that singer look like a Thundercat?
 
2013-01-14 04:50:26 PM
Good for them. Over here they'd need to try to DIY, due to Bible-thumping asshats.

If adults of sound mind want to die, they should be allowed to.
 
2013-01-14 04:51:46 PM
sad story.
 
2013-01-14 04:52:34 PM
images4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-01-14 04:53:05 PM
I don't see it.
 
2013-01-14 04:55:04 PM
soo... why not wait until the blindness ACTUALLY sits in?
 
2013-01-14 04:55:05 PM

Kaeishiwaza: On the one hand, I suppose it was their own choice.

On the other hand, damn, wtf? Giving up a bit easily, aren't we?


Agreed. They could have used braille to communicate FFS. But their life belongs to them, not the state. I agree with the article that in Switzerland you must be an active participant in the act instead of being put down passively like an animal when they had the faculty to do so.

I've just cared for a close friend during her last weeks in hospice at my house. I will not go out like she did in a delirium of pain and psychosis no drugs could touch because they caused much of it.

I've also had a close friend take himself out due to depression. He needed help he couldn't seem to find. I didn't know he'd tried to kill himself on several occasions, he hid his problem well and was coldly methodical with his end so that there would not be excessive trauma to those who were alerted. I feel he had other options he didn't consider IMHO. I still miss him and harbor survivors guilt -- at least I hope I'm better prepared to look for signs in others who are salvageable.

Regardless, I think these twins had options but instead of acting alone, they involved others in their decision so at least it wasn't unilateral and impulsive.

It's still sad. It's the only life you have and if you're not in pain and can still contribute and participate, cherish every moment. Look at Prof. Stephan Hawking. He's in a shell of a hunman body but the world looks to him for his knowledge and insight. If there's anyone whom I'd feel could make a decision to live like that, it would be him, the owner of that situation.
 
2013-01-14 04:55:59 PM
If someone is so far gone that they don't notice that the hospital has stopped feeding them, it might be time to let them go.

If their family doesn't notice that the hospital has stopped feeding them, it's definitely time to let them go.
 
2013-01-14 04:57:18 PM
From yesterday:

Stay tuned for MIss California's perspicacious, penetrating and insightful comments when asked her opinion about euthanasia, which follow in their entirety: "That's a vaccine, right?"
 
2013-01-14 04:57:38 PM
They were going blind and couldn't bear the thought of never seeing each other again? Couldn't they hold hands or something?
 
2013-01-14 04:57:45 PM

The Larch: If someone is so far gone that they don't notice that the hospital has stopped feeding them, it might be time to let them go.

If their family doesn't notice that the hospital has stopped feeding them, it's definitely time to let them go.


Ooops... I should have read the article. They killed moby and his twin because they were depressed about going blind? WTF? That doesn't even make sense.
 
2013-01-14 04:58:22 PM
This is why you always want to know the latest medical findings or advancements. Just a week ago, blind mice were given sight through an experiment. They just didn't have blind human test subjects to see if whatever they did would also work on humans. What if it actually works on blind people and not just mice?
 
2013-01-14 04:59:27 PM
I'm in a shell of a human body and I rock your world, fool.
 
2013-01-14 04:59:30 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: 0bamacare v1.0


It was voluntary douchebag.
 
2013-01-14 05:01:11 PM
Anne Frank coped just fine with a similar disability, so I don't see why they had to pussy out.
 
2013-01-14 05:02:33 PM

tricycleracer: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375]


ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2013-01-14 05:03:27 PM

Mad_Radhu: Anne Frank coped just fine with a similar disability, so I don't see why they had to pussy out.


So, what you're saying is you wouldn't choose to do that, right?
 
2013-01-14 05:04:20 PM
Death is your last right
 
2013-01-14 05:08:20 PM

Mad_Radhu: Anne Frank coped just fine with a similar disability, so I don't see why they had to pussy out.


Not only did she cope with it, she almost made it across the Pacific.
 
2013-01-14 05:08:32 PM

SkunkWerks: tricycleracer: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375]

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 500x500]


dtdstudios.com
 
2013-01-14 05:09:20 PM

Mad_Radhu: Anne Frank coped just fine with a similar disability, so I don't see why they had to pussy out.


Yeah, but then she had flying a plane for a hobby.
 
2013-01-14 05:09:48 PM
Chang died of a stroke in the middle of the night. He was always the sickly one. He was always the one who drank too much. When Eng woke up beside him to find that his brother was dead... he died of fright. Right there in the bed.
 
2013-01-14 05:10:51 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: Deaf Panels


Def Panelz is my hip hop band's name
 
2013-01-14 05:11:38 PM

dahmers love zombie: Mad_Radhu: Anne Frank coped just fine with a similar disability, so I don't see why they had to pussy out.

Not only did she cope with it, she almost made it across the Pacific.


Even then, she eked out a living as a crusty fisherman until Richard Dreyfus rolled into town.
 
2013-01-14 05:12:05 PM

CliChe Guevara: Being either deaf or blind is one thing, but being deaf already - relying on sign language and visual cues for every bit of human interaction, communication, and basic information required to function and care for oneself - losing sight under those circumstances would have been devastating. They would have gone from employed and functional to completely unable to care for themselves. Not something to want to live with.
I doubt this had to do with not seeing each others faces again.


Yup. With all high density senses out life would be pretty bad. I would certainly choose suicide in such a situation.

lohphat: Agreed. They could have used braille to communicate FFS. But their life belongs to them, not the state. I agree with the article that in Switzerland you must be an active participant in the act instead of being put down passively like an animal when they had the faculty to do so.


They very well might not be able to learn braille--it's hard to learn as an adult.

As for active vs passive--I think active should be legal in situations where the person can't do it themselves. That's not the case here, though.

lohphat: I've just cared for a close friend during her last weeks in hospice at my house. I will not go out like she did in a delirium of pain and psychosis no drugs could touch because they caused much of it.


Yup. I've seen end-stage cancer. No thanks.
 
2013-01-14 05:12:14 PM
Oh no the intercontinental war is upon us!
 
2013-01-14 05:13:11 PM
Great Gig In The Sky: " I am not frightened of dying, any time will do, I Don't mind. Why should I be frightened of dying? There's no reason for it, you've gotta go sometime."

Their life was about to become extraordinarily difficult and to their opinion (and many would agree) unpleasant, unbearable, undignified, they chose not to endure that, for really why should they, what possible, rational, reason is there to endure hardship for what is potentially decades. Checking out before that hardship began, seems a perfectly rational thing to do to me.
 
2013-01-14 05:14:21 PM
FTFA "A pair of identical twins, who were born deaf, have been killed by Belgian doctors after seeking euthanasia when they found out they would also soon go blind.

In a unique case under the country's euthanasia laws, the 45-year-old brothers, from Antwerp, chose death as they were unable to bear the thought of never seeing one another again."

They sought out the services rendered. It was their choice to do so. To use this as a model for your argument against ObamaCare is just ig'nint.
 
2013-01-14 05:16:41 PM

Spanky McStupid: Euthanasia? Isn't that a vaccine?


In Russia it is, but not until Putin takes off his shirt and menaces you with some sort of gun while holding a tiger cub in one hand beats you senseless. With the tiger cub. THEN you get the vaccine, if you're lucky.
 
2013-01-14 05:17:42 PM

bitsy_boffin: Great Gig In The Sky: " I am not frightened of dying, any time will do, I Don't mind. Why should I be frightened of dying? There's no reason for it, you've gotta go sometime."

Their life was about to become extraordinarily difficult and to their opinion (and many would agree) unpleasant, unbearable, undignified, they chose not to endure that, for really why should they, what possible, rational, reason is there to endure hardship for what is potentially decades. Checking out before that hardship began, seems a perfectly rational thing to do to me.


This may come as a shock to some but- whether it's legally sanctioned or not- the decision to commit suicide is ALWAYS the choice of the individual.
 
2013-01-14 05:17:47 PM

BMFPitt: Good for them. Over here they'd need to try to DIY, due to Bible-thumping asshats.

If adults of sound mind want to die, they should be allowed to.


"Be allowed to die" is different from "Having someone else kill them"
 
2013-01-14 05:22:07 PM
Sweet merciful crap that took me a hell of a long time and several visual clues before I finally got the joke.
 
2013-01-14 05:27:33 PM

bigredmoose: Sweet merciful crap that took me a hell of a long time and several visual clues before I finally got the joke.


Don't feel bad, it took me way too long
 
Pud [TotalFark]
2013-01-14 05:28:36 PM

Mad_Radhu: Anne Frank coped just fine with a similar disability, so I don't see why they had to pussy out.


Yea, but she hid in the attic before taking an axe to her parents, so it didn't work out all that well after all.
 
2013-01-14 05:32:31 PM
This reminds me of a short story I once wrote about a man who lived downstairs from two obese, identical twins.  The protagonist was slowly being driven mad because he could constantly hear them farking in different rooms at all hours which was often followed by the dulcet sounds of explosive vomiting.
The man assumed they could not find anyone else to fark, so did each other and sick with remorse puked their incestuous and narcissistic sins out.
Of course, they just had off-screen shut-in wives and were also into force-feeding.  Minus that part this article could have made a poignant ending to my story.
 
2013-01-14 05:37:14 PM
and they could have done it faster if Bender wasn't hogging the booth
 
DB
2013-01-14 05:38:32 PM
took a cue from these guys

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-14 05:43:11 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-14 05:46:32 PM

Kaeishiwaza: On the one hand, I suppose it was their own choice.

On the other hand, damn, wtf? Giving up a bit easily, aren't we?


/I see what youre saying, but deaf, and soon to go blind. All you would have left is smell and touch, living in a veritable limbo. I cannot imagine it, and i respect their right to that choice.
 
2013-01-14 05:46:42 PM
i449.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-14 05:47:28 PM

Kaeishiwaza: On the other hand, damn, wtf? Giving up a bit easily, aren't we?


Being deaf and blind is no picnic.
 
2013-01-14 05:49:22 PM

The Larch: The Larch: If someone is so far gone that they don't notice that the hospital has stopped feeding them, it might be time to let them go.

If their family doesn't notice that the hospital has stopped feeding them, it's definitely time to let them go.

Ooops... I should have read the article. They killed moby and his twin because they were depressed about going blind? WTF? That doesn't even make sense.


Really? You can't empathize with someone who would rather die than live blind and deaf?
 
2013-01-14 05:50:19 PM

Ed Finnerty: "I can't quit you!"

"Who said that?"


I'll go with Broke Butt Mountain for $300.
 
2013-01-14 05:50:42 PM
Those guys should do ads for TransitionsTM lenses.

/On sale now at JC Penny's
 
2013-01-14 05:52:09 PM
Youth culture killed my dog...
 
2013-01-14 05:54:02 PM

talkertopc: Really? You can't empathize with someone who would rather die than live blind and deaf?


Empathize? Yes, absolutely I can empathize with that.

But the article is about euthanasia.
 
2013-01-14 05:55:28 PM

talkertopc: The Larch: The Larch: If someone is so far gone that they don't notice that the hospital has stopped feeding them, it might be time to let them go.

If their family doesn't notice that the hospital has stopped feeding them, it's definitely time to let them go.

Ooops... I should have read the article. They killed moby and his twin because they were depressed about going blind? WTF? That doesn't even make sense.

Really? You can't empathize with someone who would rather die than live blind and deaf?


Its a sad story. Growing up, there was a kid in our neighborhood who was like that. Didn't speak either. I'm not sure if it was a birth defect, or something psychological. There were always rumors about his uncle, who was a weirdo himself.

Anyway, that kid would just lose himself, day in, and day out in pinball.

Sad thing is nobody had the heart to tell him he sucked, or if he even understood. Hell, after the first few months of him having the machine, the parents unplugged it to save on electricity and keeping the neighbors up at all hours. Tommy still went out there to play it, and probably thought he played a mean game, which I guess is all that matters.
 
2013-01-14 05:56:58 PM
It all comes down to a perceived quality of life. As you might be happy living blind and deaf, having known sight at least, and having it taken away, would be happy just to still be alive, someone else might find that a bit much to ask for a continued existence, and opt out. It's all about perceived quality of life man. All im saying.
 
2013-01-14 05:57:12 PM
Good for them. I believe any adult should have the right to die in a painless manner if he wish to do so. It should not be up to a doctor to decide whether there is suffering or not. If somebody wish to die, give him access to counselling, but if he still wants to die after that, just let him. Most suicides are messy and painful while it shouldn't be that way.
 
2013-01-14 05:58:01 PM

spelletrader: Youth culture killed my dog...


there might be worse songs to get stuck in my head.
 
2013-01-14 05:58:21 PM

Kaeishiwaza: On the one hand, I suppose it was their own choice.

On the other hand, damn, wtf? Giving up a bit easily, aren't we?


Why not just friggin' kill yourself and keep the doctor's out of it. They weren't suffering.

Oh, they were suffering emotionally?  I hope that's not the rationale because there's lots of people suffering emotionally that might want to die... that's called contemplating suicide. We shouldn't be taking part in that as a society. Bind and Deaf is no way to go through life?  Maybe not, but farkin' A, make a run at it first.
 
2013-01-14 05:59:01 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com2.bp.blogspot.com
R.I.P.
 
2013-01-14 06:01:33 PM

BMFPitt: If adults of sound mind want to die, they should be allowed to.


That's preposterous. If they want to kill themselves then they should have to drive the wrong way down the interstate and die in an accident like the good lord intended. I'm pretty sure people won't find other ways to kill themselves if you just make it against the rules.
 
2013-01-14 06:02:01 PM
I figured there had to be more to this story. I mean, healthy people don't often go blind. Found found an Antwerp article. Here's a quote from their brother (I ran it through Google Translate, sp grammar will be kooky)

"I would also like to emphasize that they are not only blind and deaf. Eddy had a severely deformed spine and has also undergone heart surgery.....Many readers, even in the village, will wonder why my brothers have opted for euthanasia. Because there are plenty of deaf and blind that a 'normal' life. But my brothers trudged from one disease to another. They were really worn out. "
 
2013-01-14 06:02:23 PM
ChipNASA: R.I.P. P.O.D.

do you know anything about the background photos in that music video? I swear one of them is a high school friend who died back then.
 
2013-01-14 06:03:01 PM

beakerxf: I figured there had to be more to this story. I mean, healthy people don't often go blind. Found found an Antwerp article. Here's a quote from their brother (I ran it through Google Translate, sp grammar will be kooky)

"I would also like to emphasize that they are not only blind and deaf. Eddy had a severely deformed spine and has also undergone heart surgery.....Many readers, even in the village, will wonder why my brothers have opted for euthanasia. Because there are plenty of deaf and blind that a 'normal' life. But my brothers trudged from one disease to another. They were really worn out. "


Quote source.
 
2013-01-14 06:04:14 PM

farkingismybusiness: [upload.wikimedia.org image 220x223]
We run for yutes in Asia.


I was going to say that it wasn't their best album, but it wasn't a deadly one by any means either.
 
2013-01-14 06:08:09 PM

Wayne 985: Didn't The Daily Mail get caught making up stories a while back? I don't believe much of anything they claim.

If it is true, then... okay. Probably not something I would do, but if they're of sound mind, it's their choice.


It is axiomatic that if you are choosing to kill yourself you not 'of sound mind'.

It also turns out that Belgium doctors and nurses have been killing old/older people who didn't want to die; this came out about 18 months ago.

No one was prosecuted.

Euthanasia is morally wrong.
 
2013-01-14 06:08:58 PM

theknuckler_33: Kaeishiwaza: On the one hand, I suppose it was their own choice.

On the other hand, damn, wtf? Giving up a bit easily, aren't we?

Why not just friggin' kill yourself and keep the doctor's out of it. They weren't suffering.

Oh, they were suffering emotionally?  I hope that's not the rationale because there's lots of people suffering emotionally that might want to die... that's called contemplating suicide. We shouldn't be taking part in that as a society. Bind and Deaf is no way to go through life?  Maybe not, but farkin' A, make a run at it first.


It's called liberty. Who cares if some people want to die for whatever reason? Their life, their choice to do whatever they want want it as long as they don't harm anyone. The right to kill yourself is the ultimate liberty, which is probably why Christianity is so against it because religion and liberty don't go well together.

Besides, we have have a few billion people on this world. We only fool ourselves that life has meaning and worth.
 
2013-01-14 06:10:17 PM

Devo: spelletrader: Youth culture killed my dog...

there might be worse songs to get stuck in my head.


but I don't think it's fair...
 
2013-01-14 06:22:55 PM

douchebag/hater: Wayne 985: Didn't The Daily Mail get caught making up stories a while back? I don't believe much of anything they claim.

If it is true, then... okay. Probably not something I would do, but if they're of sound mind, it's their choice.

It is axiomatic that if you are choosing to kill yourself you not 'of sound mind'.

Euthanasia is morally wrong.


And letting people suffer unnecessarily isn't morally wrong?

I am taking care of my mother right now who has been suffering from Alzheimer's for 10 years now and by now only seems to have a few neurons firing in her brain. Which is a good thing, after years of confusion, suffering, depression and anger and slowly losing her mind.

If I would be diagnosed with it in the future, I sincerely hope that I will have both the opportunity and the right to kill myself before I lose my senses and turn in to an helpless, demented, scared wreck who has to wait for 10 years until death finally comes.

Soundness of mind?

If you have a choice between a painful death now, or losing your mind completely, suffer, and have a basically useless life at cost of society and your family, how would someone sound of mind chose anything else than a painless death before the suffering starts.
 
2013-01-14 06:29:56 PM

BMFPitt: Good for them. Over here they'd need to try to DIY, due to Bible-thumping asshats.

If adults of sound mind want to die, they should be allowed to.


Exactly.

It is about choice, which the Reich is completely against.
 
2013-01-14 06:30:59 PM
Indonesia for the Indonesians!
 
2013-01-14 06:31:29 PM

Devo: spelletrader: Youth culture killed my dog...

there might be worse songs to get stuck in my head.


So it's justified?
 
2013-01-14 06:33:11 PM
It's their lives, it's their decision. Period. End of story. Anyone that's "hurt" about it can shut the fark up and mind their own business. Yes, that means close family too. You still don't own them......
 
2013-01-14 06:35:00 PM
This is the same reason Anne Frank committed suicide.
 
2013-01-14 06:36:51 PM
Really have mixed emotions about this... Last year, within a few months, I lost two good friends to almost identical cancers. One elected to depend on meds and pain killers provided by docs. She died with hospice supervising. Her death was not truly horrific--she was essentially insensate for the final month of her life--but there were moments of some lucidity when she was very frightened. The other friend decided to go out by her own choice. She said her goodbyes, and quietly departed this earthly plane through a carefully researched and crafted chemical cocktail. She told no one when it was going to happen and it was a surprise when she killed herself because she seemed to still be able to control her pain through meds. I wondered if she pulled her own plug sooner than was necessary. That might be my own selfishness inserting an opinion. Still, I miss them both.
 
2013-01-14 06:36:57 PM
bikkurikun:  We only fool ourselves that life has meaning and worth.

Maybe not from a cosmic perspective, but if you don't think my daughter's life has meaning and worth to me, you are delusional.

Finding meaning and worth in life is subjective and if you think there is no meaning or worth to any life anywhere to anyone, you are the one being fooled.

We should not, as a society, just turn a blind eye to the emotional and mental issues that often lead to suicide in the name of 'liberty' or, worse yet, overcrowding. I'm in favor of euthanasia, but what these brother's did was have someone else legally kill them because they didn't have the guts to do it to themselves.
 
2013-01-14 06:36:59 PM
Citrate1007:
tenpoundsofcheese: 0bamacare v1.0

It was voluntary douchebag.

I thought ALL douchebaggery was voluntary. Someone can do that TO you?

/ Hmmm..... Goes a long way towards explaining the Politics tab...
 
2013-01-14 06:37:06 PM

FlippityFlap: It's their lives, it's their decision. Period. End of story. Anyone that's "hurt" about it can shut the fark up and mind their own business. Yes, that means close family too. You still don't own them......


Over in however many taht was.
 
2013-01-14 06:40:21 PM
Fano:
Mad_Radhu: Anne Frank coped just fine with a similar disability, so I don't see why they had to pussy out.

Yeah, but then she had flying a plane for a hobby.

And don't forget -- World Champion at Hide and Seek, two years running.


/ Window seat, and I'd like the Kosher Ham sandwich.
 
2013-01-14 06:42:04 PM

The Larch: The Larch: If someone is so far gone that they don't notice that the hospital has stopped feeding them, it might be time to let them go.

If their family doesn't notice that the hospital has stopped feeding them, it's definitely time to let them go.

Ooops... I should have read the article. They killed moby and his twin because they were depressed about going blind? WTF? That doesn't even make sense.


No, moby & his twin asked for help committing suicide because THEY were depressed about going blind and the hospital said okay.

It doesn't make sense to me either, but if they really felt their lives wouldn't be worth living if they were blind and deaf, that's up to them.

Would you have been happier if they both jumped out a window?
 
2013-01-14 06:43:55 PM
bitsy_boffin:
Their life was about to become extraordinarily difficult and to their opinion (and many would agree) unpleasant, unbearable, undignified, they chose not to endure that, for really why should they, what possible, rational, reason is there to endure hardship for what is potentially decades. Checking out before that hardship began, seems a perfectly rational thing to do to me.

So, what's stopping you? If you live long enough, all of that will happen to you. Why waste time? What's the difference between your situation and theirs?
 
2013-01-14 06:44:35 PM

theknuckler_33: I'm in favor of euthanasia, but what these brother's did was have someone else legally kill them because they didn't have the guts to do it to themselves.


What the hell does 'guts' have to do with a choice between killing yourself or letting a doctor do it? Euthanasia is painless, secure, and clean. Suicide by any other means (and it is not easy to get a gun in Europe to shoot yourself in the head with) is usually painful, messy, has a high failure rate and is rather confrontational to whoever finds you in a pool of your own blood and shiat. That is the whole reason why it is good to have controlled euthanasia in the first place.
 
2013-01-14 06:46:23 PM

bikkurikun: theknuckler_33: I'm in favor of euthanasia, but what these brother's did was have someone else legally kill them because they didn't have the guts to do it to themselves.

What the hell does 'guts' have to do with a choice between killing yourself or letting a doctor do it? Euthanasia is painless, secure, and clean. Suicide by any other means (and it is not easy to get a gun in Europe to shoot yourself in the head with) is usually painful, messy, has a high failure rate and is rather confrontational to whoever finds you in a pool of your own blood and shiat. That is the whole reason why it is good to have controlled euthanasia in the first place.


Just so we're clear, you are saying that anyone should just be able to go into the doctor's office and ask for a fatal cocktail to be administered at any time for any reason?  That's your position, right?
 
2013-01-14 06:48:47 PM
LineNoise:
Anyway, that kid would just lose himself, day in, and day out in pinball.

Sad thing is nobody had the heart to tell him he sucked, or if he even understood. Hell, after the first few months of him having the machine, the parents unplugged it to save on electricity and keeping the neighbors up at all hours. Tommy still went out there to play it, and probably thought he played a mean game, which I guess is all that matters.

That's EPIC. Someone should write a song.
 
2013-01-14 06:49:12 PM
lohphat:  He's in a shell of a hunman body but the world looks to him for his knowledge and insight.

And you gotta admire that guy's balls.  Had anyone else had slaughtered the Hun-men and donned their corpses as trophies, they'd be ostracized.  But Hawking?  He owns it.
 
2013-01-14 06:51:35 PM

Citrate1007: tenpoundsofcheese: 0bamacare v1.0

It was voluntary douchebag.


Yes, 10# is a voluntary douchebag.
 
2013-01-14 06:53:23 PM

Habitual Cynic: Really have mixed emotions about this... Last year, within a few months, I lost two good friends to almost identical cancers. One elected to depend on meds and pain killers provided by docs. She died with hospice supervising. Her death was not truly horrific--she was essentially insensate for the final month of her life--but there were moments of some lucidity when she was very frightened. The other friend decided to go out by her own choice. She said her goodbyes, and quietly departed this earthly plane through a carefully researched and crafted chemical cocktail. She told no one when it was going to happen and it was a surprise when she killed herself because she seemed to still be able to control her pain through meds. I wondered if she pulled her own plug sooner than was necessary. That might be my own selfishness inserting an opinion. Still, I miss them both.


As stated earlier, I've been there done that -- not for one, but several friends with cancer. The losing end of a cancer battle rarely is humane or pretty -- it's a toll on the person and those who have to see them through it. Interestingly a friend of mine who went through cancer surgery and several bots of chemo died peacefully on the sofa during a nap before heading out for the evening. His family is devastated thinking he had beaten back the cancer. Left a widow and two small kids -- they lost their house having to pay for all the treatment out of their own pocket. Pre-existing condition you know.

I know the cocktail you most likely speak of, it's the standard one Dignitas uses. I've already decided that if I'm in a terminal situation I'm not going out at the mercy of the disease.
 
2013-01-14 06:53:44 PM
Europe has had assisted suicide clinics for a long time.
Don't know if that puts them ahead or behind us. Most likely just down a different path.
 
2013-01-14 06:56:36 PM

theknuckler_33: Just so we're clear, you are saying that anyone should just be able to go into the doctor's office and ask for a fatal cocktail to be administered at any time for any reason?  That's your position, right?


I won't answer for them, but in general yes, the *option* should be available *after* precautions are carried out -- e.g. two confirming opinions of MDs and a timeout period for counseling.
 
2013-01-14 06:57:14 PM

computerguyUT: Europe has had assisted suicide clinics for a long time.
Don't know if that puts them ahead or behind us. Most likely just down a different path.


Humanity and reduction of needless suffering is a different path?
 
2013-01-14 06:57:52 PM

lohphat: theknuckler_33: Just so we're clear, you are saying that anyone should just be able to go into the doctor's office and ask for a fatal cocktail to be administered at any time for any reason?  That's your position, right?

I won't answer for them, but in general yes, the *option* should be available *after* precautions are carried out -- e.g. two confirming opinions of MDs and a timeout period for counseling.


Two confirming opinions on what?
 
2013-01-14 07:00:16 PM

douchebag/hater: It is axiomatic that if you are choosing to kill yourself you not 'of sound mind'.


No. The reality is that death isn't the worst thing that can happen to you.

Habitual Cynic: She told no one when it was going to happen and it was a surprise when she killed herself because she seemed to still be able to control her pain through meds. I wondered if she pulled her own plug sooner than was necessary. That might be my own selfishness inserting an opinion. Still, I miss them both.


Which is one reason we need euthanasia to be legal. The problem is too many people are put in a situation of either doing themselves earlier than they really would have chosen or ending up in a situation where they can't do it and the doctors aren't allowed to.

bikkurikun: What the hell does 'guts' have to do with a choice between killing yourself or letting a doctor do it? Euthanasia is painless, secure, and clean. Suicide by any other means (and it is not easy to get a gun in Europe to shoot yourself in the head with) is usually painful, messy, has a high failure rate and is rather confrontational to whoever finds you in a pool of your own blood and shiat. That is the whole reason why it is good to have controlled euthanasia in the first place.


I can't speak for other posters but you're misinterpreting me. While I only support the doctor doing it when the patient can't that does not mean I think people should be forced to choose painful/messy ways to go. If life has become intolerable you should be able to get reliable, pain-free means. It's just you have to do it yourself.
 
2013-01-14 07:02:44 PM
John Cena twins activate!!
 
2013-01-14 07:05:45 PM

theknuckler_33: lohphat: theknuckler_33: Just so we're clear, you are saying that anyone should just be able to go into the doctor's office and ask for a fatal cocktail to be administered at any time for any reason?  That's your position, right?

I won't answer for them, but in general yes, the *option* should be available *after* precautions are carried out -- e.g. two confirming opinions of MDs and a timeout period for counseling.

Two confirming opinions on what?


There's underlying cause for the decision. The impetuousness needs to be filtered out. I wish the same waiting or counseling for tatts/piercings, marriage proposals, etc. had a cooling off period so that you can think about it. But in the end, if you want to do it, go ahead.

Don't get me wrong -- there are moral traps all over the place -- but the fundamental rule is: It's your life, not the state's. What if the person is a single parent and has minor kids? I don't know what the answer is.

Same for abortion. Until the fetus is viable, it's an inseparable part of the woman's body. Her decision, not the state's.

That may be unpopular for many people, but it's not their life/body. They're free to make their own decisions about their lives. No one can force them to participate if it's not in their living will directive or their delegated medical power of attorney.
 
2013-01-14 07:12:59 PM
Didn't see it in the article (such excellent reporting), but it sounds like Usher's.
 
2013-01-14 07:13:02 PM

Habitual Cynic: Really have mixed emotions about this... Last year, within a few months, I lost two good friends to almost identical cancers. One elected to depend on meds and pain killers provided by docs. She died with hospice supervising. Her death was not truly horrific--she was essentially insensate for the final month of her life--but there were moments of some lucidity when she was very frightened. The other friend decided to go out by her own choice. She said her goodbyes, and quietly departed this earthly plane through a carefully researched and crafted chemical cocktail. She told no one when it was going to happen and it was a surprise when she killed herself because she seemed to still be able to control her pain through meds. I wondered if she pulled her own plug sooner than was necessary. That might be my own selfishness inserting an opinion. Still, I miss them both.


It's sad that is the only option in countries like the US. If she had told others of her plan beforehand, they probably would have forced her to suffer through it by preventing the suicide. It's nice that in Belgium everyone gets to say their real, final goodbyes knowing what's going to happen.
 
2013-01-14 07:13:36 PM

oldfarthenry: It took me a bit to get the joke.


I won't lie, it took me a few seconds, but mostly because I didn't read the rest of the headline after "Adultsineurope."

MY BRAIN LOCKED UP
 
2013-01-14 07:15:33 PM

GeneralJim: bitsy_boffin: So, what's stopping you? If you live long enough, all of that will happen to you. Why waste time? What's the difference between your situation and theirs?


You might as well state a nonsense like "if you don't believe in hell, then nothing stops you from being evil".

You know your life will end, you're not afraid of it ending, but you continue living - because you like living. When you don't like living any more, and there is no solution, you should be able to stop living.

You know that a party you are invited to will end, so why do you go to the party? Because you like parties. When the party gets boring, you leave. And if you don't like parties, then you don't go to it.

Just because one does not fear death, because one accepts that they will die, because one agrees with the notion that one should have the right to determine when they die, it does not necessarily mean that one desires death to come with haste.
 
2013-01-14 07:20:11 PM

lohphat: theknuckler_33: lohphat: theknuckler_33: Just so we're clear, you are saying that anyone should just be able to go into the doctor's office and ask for a fatal cocktail to be administered at any time for any reason?  That's your position, right?

I won't answer for them, but in general yes, the *option* should be available *after* precautions are carried out -- e.g. two confirming opinions of MDs and a timeout period for counseling.

Two confirming opinions on what?

There's underlying cause for the decision. The impetuousness needs to be filtered out. I wish the same waiting or counseling for tatts/piercings, marriage proposals, etc. had a cooling off period so that you can think about it. But in the end, if you want to do it, go ahead.

Don't get me wrong -- there are moral traps all over the place -- but the fundamental rule is: It's your life, not the state's. What if the person is a single parent and has minor kids? I don't know what the answer is.

Same for abortion. Until the fetus is viable, it's an inseparable part of the woman's body. Her decision, not the state's.

That may be unpopular for many people, but it's not their life/body. They're free to make their own decisions about their lives. No one can force them to participate if it's not in their living will directive or their delegated medical power of attorney.


I think having a society that allows that is setting themselves up for lots of unintended consequences.  I can just imagine evil manipulative people preying on the weak-minded emotionally crippled and convincing them to off themselves (painlessly and at the hand of a doctor) to benefit some contrived 'greater good'.
 
2013-01-14 07:21:53 PM

Raging Brainer: Oh no the intercontinental war is upon us!


Oceania has always been at war with Euthanasia.
 
2013-01-14 07:22:43 PM

bitsy_boffin:

Just because one does not fear death, because one accepts that they will die, because one agrees with the notion that one should have the right to determine when they die, it does not necessarily mean that one desires death to come with haste.


Sadly whoever wrote the US laws thinks it does. NEVER tell anyone you're not afraid to die. To a lot of people, that's the equivalent of saying you have definitive plans to kill yourself immediately.
But, very well put.
 
2013-01-14 07:23:16 PM
i.cdn.turner.com

R.I.P.
 
2013-01-14 07:29:39 PM
Deaf, blind AND bald? Yeah that would suck.
 
2013-01-14 07:30:19 PM

Bisu: Habitual Cynic: Really have mixed emotions about this... Last year, within a few months, I lost two good friends to almost identical cancers. One elected to depend on meds and pain killers provided by docs. She died with hospice supervising. Her death was not truly horrific--she was essentially insensate for the final month of her life--but there were moments of some lucidity when she was very frightened. The other friend decided to go out by her own choice. She said her goodbyes, and quietly departed this earthly plane through a carefully researched and crafted chemical cocktail. She told no one when it was going to happen and it was a surprise when she killed herself because she seemed to still be able to control her pain through meds. I wondered if she pulled her own plug sooner than was necessary. That might be my own selfishness inserting an opinion. Still, I miss them both.

It's sad that is the only option in countries like the US. If she had told others of her plan beforehand, they probably would have forced her to suffer through it by preventing the suicide. It's nice that in Belgium everyone gets to say their real, final goodbyes knowing what's going to happen.


/My mother in law died from ovarian cancer. By the time she found out, it was too late. It was fast..just about a month or two, but i remember she woke up during her drug induced stupor, and said" Am i dying?" and her voice was full of fear and she was crying, and it broke my heart, as all we could do is tell her yes, and try to let her know that we were there. If she had had a choice, and i would agree, she could have come to terms and chose to leave this earth in peace, and not in horrific pain and sorrow. There was no hope of brining her back to any kind of quality of life, and any attempts to revive her would have just made it so we could see her die again in agony. fark that. She was a good wife, person, mother, and friend to many people in our little town, and one of the kindest most welcoming persons i had ever had the fortune to meet. I would have given her the shot myself just to do one last act of kindness for her for all the kindness she showed me. We can do it for injured animals that are beyond help, why can we not do it for higher life forms so they don't have to suffer as well?
 
2013-01-14 07:30:27 PM

theknuckler_33: I think having a society that allows that is setting themselves up for lots of unintended consequences.  I can just imagine evil manipulative people preying on the weak-minded emotionally crippled and convincing them to off themselves (painlessly and at the hand of a doctor) to benefit some contrived 'greater good'./i>

Add that irrational fear has not played out in countries and states which permit it due to the requirement of having a waiting period and doctors and counsellors involved. There not been a huge increase of non-medical suicides. What there has been is a reduction of horrible end-of-life suffering by terminally ill people. Again, your lack of comfort with it is not a reason to ban it. Being a free people in theory means being free of others' tyranny. You don't like it? Fine. Don't do it.

Your argument of fear is identical to those not wanting gay marriage because the sky will fall when in fact what only happens is gays get married.

 
2013-01-14 07:31:40 PM
CrakPad quote fail.
 
2013-01-14 07:36:07 PM
bitsy_boffin:
GeneralJim: bitsy_boffin: So, what's stopping you? If you live long enough, all of that will happen to you. Why waste time? What's the difference between your situation and theirs?

You might as well state a nonsense like "if you don't believe in hell, then nothing stops you from being evil".

You know your life will end, you're not afraid of it ending, but you continue living - because you like living. When you don't like living any more, and there is no solution, you should be able to stop living.

You know that a party you are invited to will end, so why do you go to the party? Because you like parties. When the party gets boring, you leave. And if you don't like parties, then you don't go to it.

Just because one does not fear death, because one accepts that they will die, because one agrees with the notion that one should have the right to determine when they die, it does not necessarily mean that one desires death to come with haste.

You're missing the point. They had themselves put down because they MIGHT go blind. If that was the be-all and end-all for me, I'd at least wait until I STARTED TO GO BLIND. I mean, doctors have been wrong before. I'd at least let nature give me a second opinion on that whole "blindness" thing.

"Hello, this is Dr. Affeschwanz at the clinic. I need to talk to the Moby twins. Yeah, it's the funniest thing... It turns out that the lab... They WHAT?"
 
2013-01-14 07:37:46 PM
*teehee* i larfed
 
2013-01-14 07:40:53 PM

theknuckler_33: lohphat: theknuckler_33: lohphat: theknuckler_33:
I think having a society that allows that is setting themselves up for lots of unintended consequences.  I can just imagine evil manipulative people preying on the weak-minded emotionally crippled and convincing them to off themselves (painlessly and at the hand of a doctor) to benefit some contrived 'greater good'.


If we're going to disallow things because evil, manipulative people will use them to prey on the weak minded and emotionally crippled for their personal advantage, to benefit some contrived greater good . . .

. . . then there is nothing that should be allowed.
 
2013-01-14 07:45:08 PM
Tried to come up with a good headline. This one was perfect and beat anything I had in the works.

+1 subby
 
2013-01-14 07:50:07 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: We can do it for injured animals that are beyond help, why can we not do it for higher life forms so they don't have to suffer as well?


One angle is that there's a lot of money in not doing it. Another is that it seems to violate some vocal people's idea of their own religion. Combine the two and you get a lot of lobbying money going to elected officials to not allow it. Follow the lobbying money.
 
2013-01-14 07:57:17 PM

theknuckler_33: I can just imagine evil manipulative people preying on the weak-minded emotionally crippled and convincing them to off themselves (painlessly and at the hand of a doctor) to benefit some contrived 'greater good'.


You've just described The Catholic Church[tm]. Their work to increase pain and suffering "for the greater good" is legendary be it fighting against euthanasia or HIV prevention in Africa.
 
2013-01-14 08:10:35 PM
You know who else believed in euthanasia?
 
2013-01-14 08:16:44 PM
First off, I say that it IS the individual's right to end their human life when they want to. On the other hand, this should NOT be done by doctors. There are multiple ethical reasons for this. As was noted up-thread, Belgium has been cited as performing euthanasia when the DOCTOR feels it's justified. This has also happened in the first place to make euthanasia legal, The Netherlands. Read about the horror stories of unpunished literal murder that ensued HERE. If you prefer, the original article can be viewed in a PDF file HERE. What appears good in theory has been bollocks when put into practice.
 
2013-01-14 08:34:19 PM

Kaeishiwaza: On the one hand, I suppose it was their own choice.

On the other hand, damn, wtf? Giving up a bit easily, aren't we?


Perhaps for you, and that is absolutely fine FOR YOU. I'd have to give consideration as to whether life had value if I were blind and deaf, but that's not important either. It's their life and should be 100% exclusively their choice if they are of sound mind. Nothing could be more clear, more right, more unequivocal than a persons right to determine whether their own life has value for them and make their own determination as to whether they want to continue living it. The fact that the legal system, not to mention social mores, fails to acknowledge this truth throughout much of the "civilized world" is disgusting.

////rant off
 
2013-01-14 08:43:08 PM

beakerxf: beakerxf: I figured there had to be more to this story. I mean, healthy people don't often go blind. Found found an Antwerp article. Here's a quote from their brother (I ran it through Google Translate, sp grammar will be kooky)
"I would also like to emphasize that they are not only blind and deaf. Eddy had a severely deformed spine and has also undergone heart surgery.....Many readers, even in the village, will wonder why my brothers have opted for euthanasia. Because there are plenty of deaf and blind that a 'normal' life. But my brothers trudged from one disease to another. They were really worn out. "
Quote source.


oh thank you. Although I support their decision to end it just because of being blind and deaf.

These guys had each other, and they'd never have anyone else that close to them again. And they both decided that they'd rather go out together than have to live in the dark. I don't live in their head, they had to. So I guess they can decide how much they want to deal with.
 
2013-01-14 09:14:20 PM
cdn.motinetwork.net
 
2013-01-14 09:18:33 PM

lohphat: theknuckler_33: I think having a society that allows that is setting themselves up for lots of unintended consequences.  I can just imagine evil manipulative people preying on the weak-minded emotionally crippled and convincing them to off themselves (painlessly and at the hand of a doctor) to benefit some contrived 'greater good'./i>

Add that irrational fear has not played out in countries and states which permit it due to the requirement of having a waiting period and doctors and counsellors involved. There not been a huge increase of non-medical suicides. What there has been is a reduction of horrible end-of-life suffering by terminally ill people. Again, your lack of comfort with it is not a reason to ban it. Being a free people in theory means being free of others' tyranny. You don't like it? Fine. Don't do it.

Your argument of fear is identical to those not wanting gay marriage because the sky will fall when in fact what only happens is gays get married.


Nonsense. My argument is not from fear at all.

First of all, it is not particularly clear that the law in Belgium is as permissive as you are making it seem. Even these folks in TFA, while certainly not terminal, had health related issues that can easily be considered diminishing greatly quality of life. That's a far cry from some perfectly healthy guy off the street seeing a couple doctors waiting a couple weeks and getting lethal injection.

Secondly, TFA describes at least one difference between the Belgium law and Switzerland's. Even if the law in Belgium is as permissive as you suggest, is it so in the other FEW jurisdictions where it is allowed? There isn't exactly a large sample size to draw any conclusions from as you have.

Finally, at least as far as the European counties mentioned in TFA, I'm pretty sure they have universal healthcare and probably treat mental illness far better than we do in the US and I would wager that THAT has FAR more to do with there not being a huge increase in non-medical suicides.

By the way, I am an ardent supporter of marriage equality as well as voluntary euthanasia to end suffering. Using the medical community to commit suicide 'just because' just seems like giving up on a person and while I get your 'live and let die' attitude, people who don't feel that way are hardly irrational. Only a fool cannot recognize that often a desire to die is an obvious scream for help... to ignore that out of some misguided view of 'freedom' or 'liberty' is bizarre.
 
2013-01-14 09:19:33 PM
Nicely done, submitter.
 
2013-01-14 09:23:27 PM

jonas opines: theknuckler_33: lohphat: theknuckler_33: lohphat: theknuckler_33:
I think having a society that allows that is setting themselves up for lots of unintended consequences.  I can just imagine evil manipulative people preying on the weak-minded emotionally crippled and convincing them to off themselves (painlessly and at the hand of a doctor) to benefit some contrived 'greater good'.

If we're going to disallow things because evil, manipulative people will use them to prey on the weak minded and emotionally crippled for their personal advantage, to benefit some contrived greater good . . .

. . . then there is nothing that should be allowed.


Yea, it wasn't exactly the best scenario. I just think it is worth a hell of a lot more than a few quick doctor visits and a two week wait before the medical community kills someone just because that's what they wanted. How about a farking year of counselling? I'm not afraid of someone wanting to kill themselves, I think people who feel that way need mental/emotional treatment, not someone ready to stick the needle in their arm.
 
2013-01-14 09:25:17 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-14 09:36:27 PM
Great headline subby!
 
2013-01-14 09:38:54 PM
Can someone explain headline?
 
2013-01-14 09:40:38 PM

cman: Can someone explain headline?


Adults in Europe killed by youth in asia (euthanasia).  Then see the article, which is more than the dead guys could do.
 
2013-01-14 09:43:30 PM
Deadline of the year nominee!
 
2013-01-14 09:50:50 PM

theknuckler_33: Using the medical community to commit suicide 'just because' just seems like giving up on a person and while I get your 'live and let die' attitude, people who don't feel that way are hardly irrational. Only a fool cannot recognize that often a desire to die is an obvious scream for help... to ignore that out of some misguided view of 'freedom' or 'liberty' is bizarre.


You seem they rushed into this decision lightly. As others have posted they had other medical problems other than just deaf and blind. So no, your fear of "rushing to die" is still not supported.
 
2013-01-14 10:31:01 PM

lohphat: theknuckler_33: Using the medical community to commit suicide 'just because' just seems like giving up on a person and while I get your 'live and let die' attitude, people who don't feel that way are hardly irrational. Only a fool cannot recognize that often a desire to die is an obvious scream for help... to ignore that out of some misguided view of 'freedom' or 'liberty' is bizarre.

You seem they rushed into this decision lightly. As others have posted they had other medical problems other than just deaf and blind. So no, your fear of "rushing to die" is still not supported.


You know what, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but you are obviously trolling me to cherry pick that from my post and come to that conclusion when in the beginning of the very same post I wrote: "Even these folks in TFA, while certainly not terminal, had health related issues that can easily be considered diminishing greatly quality of life. That's a far cry from some perfectly healthy guy off the street seeing a couple doctors waiting a couple weeks and getting lethal injection. "

It was obvious I was making a clear distinction between the guys in TFA and some healthy dude walking in off the street, getting a sign-off from a couple willing doctors and then waiting two week (BTW, also written in the post you quoted).

I'd like to take you seriously, I really would. But if you can't acknowledge the very clear distinction I have made between the people in TFA (let alone those who actually suffer) and a healthy individual who wants to commit suicide, then this conversation is over. I am saying the latter person should be treated for mental/emotional issues, you say stick a needle in them. I think long term psychological therapy is a better idea because, with no thoughts to religion, my own sensibilities, or anything else, I think a human being deserves a realistic opportunity to find out about what makes life worth living.
 
2013-01-14 10:35:48 PM
bikkurikun:
Habitual Cynic:
Bit'O'Gristle:


So sorry for your losses.
Dusty. Sorry

/going to hug my family
 
2013-01-14 10:56:14 PM
Euthanasia is already legal in the US, it's just that people look the other way. My mother was "Put down" 10 years ago. A doctor told her her options and she chose the "just make me comfortable" one. They already had her on morphine for around a month when presenting her with their so called "options" so she wasn't of sound mind. . Since none of us (her children) had legal power of attorney, no one could contest it. So they hooked her up to a drip ,, increasing the dose until she expired. That sucked.
 
2013-01-14 10:59:19 PM

theknuckler_33:
I'd like to take you seriously, I really would. But if you can't acknowledge the very clear distinction I have made between the people in TFA (let alone those who actually suffer) and a healthy individual who wants to commit suicide, then this conversation is over. I am saying the latter person should be treated for mental/emotional issues, you say stick a needle in them. I think long term psychological therapy is a better idea because, with no thoughts to religion, my own sensibilities, or anything else, I think a human being deserves a realistic opportunity to find out about what makes life worth living.


You're not reading my posts either. Go back and read my first one. I do have a healthy respect of treating depressed people instead of facilitating suicide. What I DON'T agree with is your "slippery slope" premise.
 
2013-01-14 11:20:03 PM

lohphat: theknuckler_33:
I'd like to take you seriously, I really would. But if you can't acknowledge the very clear distinction I have made between the people in TFA (let alone those who actually suffer) and a healthy individual who wants to commit suicide, then this conversation is over. I am saying the latter person should be treated for mental/emotional issues, you say stick a needle in them. I think long term psychological therapy is a better idea because, with no thoughts to religion, my own sensibilities, or anything else, I think a human being deserves a realistic opportunity to find out about what makes life worth living.

You're not reading my posts either. Go back and read my first one. I do have a healthy respect of treating depressed people instead of facilitating suicide. What I DON'T agree with is your "slippery slope" premise.


Fair enough. I think it would have been wise to make that point in your previous post (lohphat:) because it seemed to ignore everything else I wrote. To be honest, while I admit that I proposed a slippery slope argument, that really isn't my concern. I just think that people who submit themselves to 'medical professionals' saying they want to die should be treated as if they are mentally ill rather than expediting them through the death process. That's all.

/FWIW, I think I know you and we usually agree on most things
//cheers
 
2013-01-14 11:24:36 PM
Y'all should go watch Terry Prattchet's documentary on euthanasia. Quite mind opening.

Also, echoing the "it's my life" attitude. The idea that evil people will start killing through euthanasia clinics is reaching Bond movie levels of villainy.
 
2013-01-14 11:34:54 PM

theknuckler_33: I think having a society that allows that is setting themselves up for lots of unintended consequences.  I can just imagine evil manipulative people preying on the weak-minded emotionally crippled and convincing them to off themselves (painlessly and at the hand of a doctor) to benefit some contrived 'greater good'.


Evil, manipulative people always prey on the weak-minded and emotionally crippled, but it's almost always to make them think they need to keep buying a certain brand or keep paying $6 a month
 
2013-01-14 11:53:17 PM

Arnifix: Y'all should go watch Terry Prattchet's documentary on euthanasia. Quite mind opening.

Also, echoing the "it's my life" attitude. The idea that evil people will start killing through euthanasia clinics is reaching Bond movie levels of villainy.


What's so mind-numbingly inconceivable about suicide as a preferred option is that it's anti-corporation.

How can they milk you of your savings and property if you're dead -- by keeping you alive they can still bill you.
 
2013-01-15 12:20:45 AM

Wayne 985:
If it is true, then... okay. Probably not something I would do, but if they're of sound mind, it's their choice.


The problem with this is that the desire to end your life is proof in of itself that you are not of sound mind.

The impetus for suicide is either mental illness or mental duress. Neither state is indicative of a sound mind.

The better standard is to weigh the gains against the losses. If you are suffering intolerable pain and have a terminal illness, it is reasonable for doctors to overlook the mental duress induced by the pain, which is clearly influencing your decision. In this case there is nothing indicating they couldn't have continued with a reasonable quality of life after their mental-health issues were addressed.

Assuming the facts are as reported this is a worst case scenario for euthanasia advocates.
 
2013-01-15 12:28:04 AM

I can't get the cap off!: The problem with this is that the desire to end your life is proof in of itself that you are not of sound mind.

The impetus for suicide is either mental illness or mental duress. Neither state is indicative of a sound mind.


[citations needed]

If you're facing a horrendous terminal illness and a protracted painful death, taking a painless way out is nothing to scoff at.

You are presuming you know the mindset of other people in other situations you clearly have no empathy to connect to their plight.

You're welcome to your opinion but that sort of projection is what some people use to block same-sex marriage. "Those people are empty inside and really don't love like real couples do, so they shouldn't be allowed to marry."
 
2013-01-15 12:36:31 AM

lohphat:
If you're facing a horrendous terminal illness and a protracted painful death, taking a painless way out is nothing to scoff at.


Who is scoffing at it?

you clearly have no empathy to connect to their plight.

Their "plight" is proof positive of mental duress. Which is why you weigh the length and quality of life remaining to the person against the influence of said duress.

You're welcome to your opinion but that sort of projection is what some people use to block same-sex marriage

That isn't even a little bit correct.
 
2013-01-15 12:41:02 AM

I can't get the cap off!: lohphat:
If you're facing a horrendous terminal illness and a protracted painful death, taking a painless way out is nothing to scoff at.


Who is scoffing at it?

you clearly have no empathy to connect to their plight.

Their "plight" is proof positive of mental duress. Which is why you weigh the length and quality of life remaining to the person against the influence of said duress.

You're welcome to your opinion but that sort of projection is what some people use to block same-sex marriage

That isn't even a little bit correct.


I'm still awaiting citations on your first assertion that they are not of sound mind simply because they're contemplating shorting their lives to escape a horrendous end.

So far, we've only heard your unsubstantiated opinion.
 
2013-01-15 12:44:34 AM
Awesome subs! If I were a TFer I would +1 ya. Love subtlety.
 
2013-01-15 12:44:41 AM

lohphat: I'm still awaiting citations on your first assertion that they are not of sound mind simply because they're contemplating shorting their lives to escape a horrendous end.


It's a basic tenet of human existence.

You just admitted it yourself. "contemplating shorting their lives to escape a horrendous end"

That is the very definition of mental duress, ergo they cannot be of a sound mind.
 
2013-01-15 12:47:40 AM

I can't get the cap off!: lohphat: I'm still awaiting citations on your first assertion that they are not of sound mind simply because they're contemplating shorting their lives to escape a horrendous end.

It's a basic tenet of human existence.

You just admitted it yourself. "contemplating shorting their lives to escape a horrendous end"

That is the very definition of mental duress, ergo they cannot be of a sound mind.


Wow. Still no citation. You're just pontificating.

/buh-bye
 
2013-01-15 12:53:37 AM

lohphat:
Wow. Still no citation. You're just pontificating.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-preservation

Now let's get to your extraordinary claim that people of sound mind commit suicide.
 
2013-01-15 01:04:34 AM
Wayne 985: If it is true, then... okay. Probably not something I would do, but if they're of sound mind, it's their choice.

I can't get the cap off!: The problem with this is that the desire to end your life is proof in of itself that you are not of sound mind.


This is called a circular reasoning fallacy. A similar example would be stating that voting Democrat is proof that one is not of sound mind
 
2013-01-15 01:10:21 AM

JungleBoogie: Wayne 985: If it is true, then... okay. Probably not something I would do, but if they're of sound mind, it's their choice.

I can't get the cap off!: The problem with this is that the desire to end your life is proof in of itself that you are not of sound mind.

This is called a circular reasoning fallacy. A similar example would be stating that voting Democrat is proof that one is not of sound mind


I would cite fallacious appeal to authority primarily.
 
2013-01-15 01:16:23 AM

JungleBoogie: Wayne 985: If it is true, then... okay. Probably not something I would do, but if they're of sound mind, it's their choice.

I can't get the cap off!: The problem with this is that the desire to end your life is proof in of itself that you are not of sound mind.

This is called a circular reasoning fallacy. A similar example would be stating that voting Democrat is proof that one is not of sound mind


Except that self-preservation is a fundamental part of the human condition.

It is no different than the claim that being born with three hands is proof of an abnormality.

Because we have an established standard of normalcy, we can make reasonable assertions about any deviation from the norm without employing circular logic.
 
2013-01-15 02:07:24 AM

Arnifix: Y'all should go watch Terry Prattchet's documentary on euthanasia. Quite mind opening.

Also, echoing the "it's my life" attitude. The idea that evil people will start killing through euthanasia clinics is reaching Bond movie levels of villainy.


Have you ever met human beings? They're pretty awful. Not evil, generally. But, certainly possessing a certain...flexibility, in moral matters.

Of course euthanasia is prone to abuse. Any social policy is prone to abuse. In this case, the policy we're talking about happens to be sanctioned killings. The fear (a reasonable one, I think) is that, in any place where euthanasia is a legal and accepted practice, people who are otherwise merely inconvenient might tend to find themselves "supported" into this option...by "loved" ones, the state, or what have you.

Because, of course, people are awful.
 
2013-01-15 02:27:46 AM

Bumblefark: Arnifix: Y'all should go watch Terry Prattchet's documentary on euthanasia. Quite mind opening.

Also, echoing the "it's my life" attitude. The idea that evil people will start killing through euthanasia clinics is reaching Bond movie levels of villainy.

Have you ever met human beings? They're pretty awful. Not evil, generally. But, certainly possessing a certain...flexibility, in moral matters.

Of course euthanasia is prone to abuse. Any social policy is prone to abuse. In this case, the policy we're talking about happens to be sanctioned killings. The fear (a reasonable one, I think) is that, in any place where euthanasia is a legal and accepted practice, people who are otherwise merely inconvenient might tend to find themselves "supported" into this option...by "loved" ones, the state, or what have you.

Because, of course, people are awful.


Well to test your premise there's are data to be had. Do any of the countries which have allowed this option demonstrated acceleration of significant early outs?

Also, the countries that allow this have national healthcare so the profit motive to keep people alive -- in misery -- isn't as large of a pressure to unburden the system. Here in the US as soon as your doctor signs the hospice order, Medicare takes care of most (if not all) of your hospice care anyway.

Who are these potential hoards of early-outers you speak of or is it just more fear mongering?
 
2013-01-15 02:57:24 AM
As a 43-year-old victim of Usher Syndrome Type 2, I'm getting a kick out of this thread...

You grow up overcoming the very social disability of being born severely deaf, and just start getting really good at doing and enjoying visual things because you're a visual sort of person. The center vision stays good until much later, but the peripheral vision, which is the very epitome of subtle things, slowly and insidiously dies over a period of twenty years starting at about age 20. Sometime in your late 30s, you start bumping into people as you walk down hallways without knowing why you weren't paying attention; driving becomes more and more uncomfortable. You begin unconsciously compensating for something that's going wrong, and you halfway notice this but don't understand why you are doing those things or what's wrong. As a deaf person, the very last thing you want to lose is the vision that you are so dependent on, but since your center vision is just fine, you never consider the idea that it's your vision that is going wrong. Even when people disappear before your very eyes.

I can understand the despair that these guys had at discovering they were going blind and had been for over 20 years, even though I can't explain why I don't feel that despair. I actually felt quite a bit of relief when I was diagnosed 5 years ago; I wasn't going insane after all. One person who went completely blind asked me about how I was handling the grieving, but I don't have any grief. Not yet, anyway. There is no treatment for the retinitis pigmentosa part of Usher yet, but a lot of the research on genetic therapy is being done on the eyes of blind people because it's so easy to monitor compared to other body parts. I'm guardedly optimistic that in my lifetime, medical science will be able to at least stop my vision loss before it all goes, if not restore what I've lost.
 
2013-01-15 03:31:43 AM

dahmers love zombie: Mad_Radhu: Anne Frank coped just fine with a similar disability, so I don't see why they had to pussy out.

Not only did she cope with it, she almost made it across the Pacific.


So how does she write that advice column?
 
2013-01-15 03:42:52 AM

LineNoise: talkertopc: The Larch: The Larch: If someone is so far gone that they don't notice that the hospital has stopped feeding them, it might be time to let them go.

If their family doesn't notice that the hospital has stopped feeding them, it's definitely time to let them go.

Ooops... I should have read the article. They killed moby and his twin because they were depressed about going blind? WTF? That doesn't even make sense.

Really? You can't empathize with someone who would rather die than live blind and deaf?

Its a sad story. Growing up, there was a kid in our neighborhood who was like that. Didn't speak either. I'm not sure if it was a birth defect, or something psychological. There were always rumors about his uncle, who was a weirdo himself.

Anyway, that kid would just lose himself, day in, and day out in pinball.

Sad thing is nobody had the heart to tell him he sucked, or if he even understood. Hell, after the first few months of him having the machine, the parents unplugged it to save on electricity and keeping the neighbors up at all hours. Tommy still went out there to play it, and probably thought he played a mean game, which I guess is all that matters.


Fark you for the snot bubbles I blew while convulsing and trying not to wake my gf.
 
2013-01-15 04:01:42 AM
The problem with euthanasia in the US is that pharmaceutical companies can only make money off of you once.
 
2013-01-15 05:44:20 AM

douchebag/hater: Wayne 985: Didn't The Daily Mail get caught making up stories a while back? I don't believe much of anything they claim.

If it is true, then... okay. Probably not something I would do, but if they're of sound mind, it's their choice.

It is axiomatic that if you are choosing to kill yourself you not 'of sound mind'.

It also turns out that Belgium doctors and nurses have been killing old/older people who didn't want to die; this came out about 18 months ago.

No one was prosecuted.

Euthanasia is morally wrong.


If you are tired of life, you can off yourself. But the state should not assist.

These fellows had many health problems so I don't judge them. I'm sure it was quite convenient for the State not to have to pay for their disabilities for 30 more years....
 
2013-01-15 08:05:45 AM
www.wearysloth.com
What in Asia?
 
2013-01-15 10:27:12 AM
Wayne 985: If it is true, then... okay. Probably not something I would do, but if they're of sound mind, it's their choice.

I can't get the cap off!: The problem with this is that the desire to end your life is proof in of itself that you are not of sound mind.

JungleBoogie: This is called a circular reasoning fallacy. A similar example would be stating that voting Democrat is proof that one is not of sound mind

I can't get the cap off!: Except that self-preservation is a fundamental part of the human condition.



Yes, but death is also a fundamental part of the human condition. When a human is facing that inevitability, a reasonable person would choose the path that is more controlled and more pain-free, rather than the uncontrolled and painful path.
 
2013-01-15 12:53:58 PM

JungleBoogie:

Yes, but death is also a fundamental part of the human condition. When a human is facing that inevitability, a reasonable person would choose the path that is more controlled and more pain-free, rather than the uncontrolled and painful path.


Of course. I am an advocate of euthanasia, which is why I pointed out that "of sound mind" is a terrible qualification to require. If you are suffering, you cannot be of sound mind, thus no one would ever qualify for euthanasia.

Instead we rely on doctors as ethical arbiters in the proper application of euthanasia, and it is for this reason the case at hand is so potentially damaging to euthanasia advocates.
 
2013-01-15 05:30:50 PM
It's not that I'm against euthanasia. I'm against euthangeneral.
 
2013-01-16 04:48:17 AM

CoffeeMug: My first greenlight!


Congratulations. Can u explain the headline, cuz I don't get it.
 
2013-01-16 04:49:31 AM
Oh wait, yes I do. Sorry, haven't slept..and it's 5am.

Nice headline. :)
 
2013-01-16 04:50:06 AM
Also, talk about the blind leading the blind....
 
2013-01-17 10:34:50 PM
Bumblefark:
Have you ever met human beings? They're pretty awful. Not evil, generally. But, certainly possessing a certain...flexibility, in moral matters.

Now THAT is an awesome summary, on a par with "mostly harmless."
 
Displayed 182 of 182 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report