And Waze will eventually be better than Google Navigation.

cmunic8r99: I use OSM on my Garmin Edge 800 and love them. Keeps from having to buy maps from Garmin and still enables me to do turn-by-turn.

I've been looking for something with GPS navigation that doesn't need 3g since I pay per mb for internet on my phone. It looks like this might be just the thing. Thanks

styckx: And Waze will eventually be better than Google Navigation.

I love some Waze...except for searching for things in it. No, I wasn't looking for a gas station 2000 miles away.

Time to invoke Cuil Theory.

One Cuil = One level of abstraction away from the reality of a situation.

Example: You ask me for a Hamburger.

1 Cuil: if you asked me for a hamburger, and I gave you a raccoon.

2 Cuils: If you asked me for a hamburger, but it turns out I don't really exist. Where I was originally standing, a picture of a hamburger rests on the ground.

3 Cuils: You awake as a hamburger. You start screaming only to have special sauce fly from your lips. The world is in sepia.

4 Cuils: Why are we speaking German? A mime cries softly as he cradles a young cow. Your grandfather stares at you as the cow falls apart into patties. You look down only to see me with pickles for eyes, I am singing the song that gives birth to the universe.

5 Cuils: You ask for a hamburger, I give you a hamburger. You raise it to your lips and take a bite. Your eye twitches involuntarily. Across the street a father of three falls down the stairs. You swallow and look down at the hamburger in your hands. I give you a hamburger. You swallow and look down at the hamburger in your hands. You cannot swallow. There are children at the top of the stairs. A pickle shifts uneasily under the bun. I give you a hamburger. You look at my face, and I am pleading with you. The children are crying now. You raise the hamburger to your lips, tears stream down your face as you take a bite. I give you a hamburger. You are on your knees. You plead with me to go across the street. I hear only children's laughter. I give you a hamburger. You are screaming as you fall down the stairs. I am your child. You cannot see anything. You take a bite of the hamburger. The concrete rushes up to meet you. You awake with a start in your own bed. Your eye twitches involuntarily. I give you a hamburger. As you kill me, I do not make a sound. I give you a hamburger.

6 Cuils: You ask me for a hamburger. My attempt to reciprocate is cut brutally short as my body experiences a sudden lack of electrons. Across a variety of hidden dimensions you are dismayed. John Lennon hands me an apple, but it slips through my fingers. I am reborn as an ocelot. You disapprove. A crack echoes through the universe in defiance of conventional physics as cosmological background noise shifts from randomness to a perfect A Flat. Children everywhere stop what they are doing and hum along in perfect pitch with the background radiation. Birds fall from the sky as the sun engulfs the earth. You hesitate momentarily before allowing yourself to assume the locus of all knowledge. Entropy crumbles as you peruse the information contained within the universe. A small library in Phoenix ceases to exist. You stumble under the weight of everythingness, Your mouth opens up to cry out, and collapses around your body before blinking you out of the spatial plane. You exist only within the fourth dimension. The fountainhead of all knowledge rolls along the ground and collides with a small dog. My head tastes sideways as spacetime is reestablished, you blink back into the corporeal world disoriented, only for me to hand you a hamburger as my body collapses under the strain of reconstitution. The universe has reasserted itself. A particular small dog is fed steak for the rest of its natural life. You die in a freak accident moments later, and you soul works at the returns desk for the Phoenix library. You disapprove. Your disapproval sends ripples through the inter-dimensional void between life and death. A small child begins to cry as he walks toward the stairway where his father stands.

7 Cuils: I give you a hamburger. The universe is engulfed within itself. A bus advertising hotdogs drives by a papillon. It disapproves. An unnatural force reverses Earth's gravity. You ask for a hamburger. I reciprocate with a mildly convulsing potato. You disapprove. Your disapproval releases a cosmic shift in the void between birth and life. You ask for a hamburger. A certain small dog feasts on hamburger patties for the rest of its unnatural, eternal endurance. Your constant disapproval sends silence through everything. A contrived beast becomes omnipotent. You ask for a hamburger. I give you a hamburger your body becomes an unsettled blob of nothingness, then divides by three. The papillon barks. The universe realigns itself. You, the papillon, and the hamburger disapprove. This condemnation stops the realignment. Hades freezes over. A pig is launched is launched into the unoccupied existence between space and time with a specific hamburger. You ask for a hamburger. I give you a hamburger. It screams as you lift it to your face. You laugh maniacally as I plead with you. You devour the hamburger as it pleads for mercy. I disapprove and condemn you to an eternity in a certain void where a certain pig and its specific hamburger are located. The Universal Space-time Continuum Committee disapproves of my irrational decision. You are locked away and are fed hamburgers for the rest of your natural existence. A pickle refuses to break down during the process of digestion. You die in a freak accident. A certain pickle lives the rest of its life in a comatose state. Your soul disapproves. Down the street a child cries as a hamburger gets stuck in, and climbs back up, her esophagus. You ask again for a hamburger. I refuse to reciprocate. You demand a lawyer. I remind you harshly that this is the new world order. Lawyers no longer exist. Only papillons. Your name is written on a list of sins. Blasphemy. You ask for a hamburger. The comatose pickle vanquishes your soul from this universe. Realignment occurs. You beg for a hamburger. A certain papillon's name is written on an obelisk in Egypt. Mumble. Peasants worship the obelisk. Your soulless corpse partakes in the festivity. Hamburgers are banned universally. The sun implodes. All planets cease to have ever existed. Mercury. Venus. Earth. Mars. Jupiter. Saturn. Uranus. Neptune. Pluto is the only mass in existence. Conveniently, you are on vacation here. Your need for hamburgers re-establishes space-time. Earth is recreated under your intergalactic rule. Hamburgers are your army. You wake up. Clowns. Clowns everywhere. Your dream rushes to meet you. You are kidnapped. You ask for a hamburger. They hand you a hotdog.

error 303: Time to invoke Cuil Theory.

error 303: Time to invoke Cuil Theory.

One Cuil = One level of abstraction away from the reality of a situation.

Example: You ask me for a Hamburger.

1 Cuil: if you asked me for a hamburger, and I gave you a raccoon.

2 Cuils: If you asked me for a hamburger, but it turns out I don't really exist. Where I was originally standing, a picture of a hamburger rests on the ground.

3 Cuils: You awake as a hamburger. You start screaming only to have special sauce fly from your lips. The world is in sepia.

4 Cuils: Why are we speaking German? A mime cries softly as he cradles a young cow. Your grandfather stares at you as the cow falls apart into patties. You look down only to see me with pickles for eyes, I am singing the song that gives birth to the universe.

5 Cuils: You ask for a hamburger, I give you a hamburger. You raise it to your lips and take a bite. Your eye twitches involuntarily. Across the street a father of three falls down the stairs. You swallow and look down at the hamburger in your hands. I give you a hamburger. You swallow and look down at the hamburger in your hands. You cannot swallow. There are children at the top of the stairs. A pickle shifts uneasily under the bun. I give you a hamburger. You look at my face, and I am pleading with you. The children are crying now. You raise the hamburger to your lips, tears stream down your face as you take a bite. I give you a hamburger. You are on your knees. You plead with me to go across the street. I hear only children's laughter. I give you a hamburger. You are screaming as you fall down the stairs. I am your child. You cannot see anything. You take a bite of the hamburger. The concrete rushes up to meet you. You awake with a start in your own bed. Your eye twitches involuntarily. I give you a hamburger. As you kill me, I do not make a sound. I give you a hamburger.

6 Cuils: You ask me for a hamburger. My attempt to reciprocate is cut brutally short as my body experiences a sudden lack of electrons. Across a vari ...

IT IS TOO DAMN EARLY FOR THIS.

However, once it hits 5, I would like some of whatever you've got. Thanks.

/if a tree falls in the forest, and a mime audibly cries, is he *really* a mime?

error 303: ertising hotdogs drives by a papillon. It disapproves. An unnatural force reverses Earth's gravity. You ask for a hamburger. I reciprocate with a mildly convulsing potato. You disapprove. Your disapproval releases a cosmic shift in t

I thruasgh this sah j2ll1!

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich:


cmunic8r99: I use OSM on my Garmin Edge 800 and love them. Keeps from having to buy maps from Garmin and still enables me to do turn-by-turn.

I've been looking for something with GPS navigation that doesn't need 3g since I pay per mb for internet on my phone. It looks like this might be just the thing. Thanks

I have an android phone that I keep in my car that someone gave me when they switched plans... It doesn't even have a voice plan, much less a data plan. Unlike Google apps which doesn't cache maps worth a damn I can load up all the maps I need at home en masse in OSM apps and don't need to give a wireless provider a dime for the service.

Hmmm... they still have my street as one way even though it converted into a two way street over two years ago. Bing and Google have long had the change on their maps. Yes, I know I could sign up for an account and submit the change but it amazes me that in the downtown of one of the largest cities in the US, a city that Open Street Maps specifically undertook an effort to have mapped, that it could be wrong for such an extended period of time.

I like the idea of Open Street Maps but it appears to still have a ways to go before catching up with the commercial offerings.

If it doesn't have a 'street view' equivalent I'm not interested. The last time I used OSM it didn't have it.

Also - Google can simply stop charging access to it's map data for companies and all the OSM momentum would disappear overnight.

Fark_Guy_Rob: Also - Google can simply stop charging access to it's map data for companies and all the OSM momentum would disappear overnight.

Yeah, but Google actually pays people so their maps are correct. Businesses pay for that. I'm not bagging on OSM and I will likely get some offline maps for when I travel, but the offering is quite light right now. One of the major hospitals in my town that has moved close to a year ago now is still listed in the old location. Not a good thing for a map. But at least OPM has an amenity code for finding swinger clubs and baby drop boxes.

amenity swingerclub A club where people meet to have a party and group sex.

amenity baby_hatch a place where you can drop a baby anonymously for adoption

Also as this is pretty much a wiki, I would imagine people could purposely change map data just to fark with a person or business. Its one thing to lie about a company's history on Wiki, it would be another to have map data so it directs client and customer to the wrong location.

OpenStreetMap has been around since 2004 and (IIRC) never claimed to be a Google Maps killer. Cuil burst onto the scene in 2008, said they'd destroy Google and...died in 2008.

Different things.

error 303: Time to invoke Cuil Theory.

That's the most awesome thing I've seen in some time... Good Jorb.

Also, take some time to check out your general vicinity and report any errors to Open Street Map's data here: http://osmbugs.org/

Just like Google maps a decade ago, this is only going to improve through people reporting problems.

EngineerAU: Hmmm... they still have my street as one way even though it converted into a two way street over two years ago. Bing and Google have long had the change on their maps. Yes, I know I could sign up for an account and submit the change but it amazes me that in the downtown of one of the largest cities in the US, a city that Open Street Maps specifically undertook an effort to have mapped, that it could be wrong for such an extended period of time.

I like the idea of Open Street Maps but it appears to still have a ways to go before catching up with the commercial offerings.

Go fix it then. Saying "I can't believe no one else has fixed it yet" doesn't cut it. The reason it "still has a ways to go" is because people spend more time wondering at its errors than fixing them.

/Just snarking
//But still, that's how it is supposed to work.

I've heard of OpenStreetMap, but have never perused it until now. I've noticed a few errors in my area, but I don't blame them since sometimes the county signs two of the roads the same number or one road two road numbers. (Note I said "signs" as in "puts up road signs"). Granted, apparently the state doesn't know the difference between the US Highway Shield and NY State Highway Shield.

Also, living in a rural area probably means that don't have as much reliable data either.

47 is the new 42: Also, living in a rural area probably means that don't have as much reliable data either.

Complete US street data is available from the federal government. I am sure other countries have it, too.

Mapquest, Google, Bing, NavTeq etc. start with that, they did not independently map every street in the US.

However, as OpenStreetMap's power users were quick to note, only about one third of those registered accounts - about 300,000 users worldwide, including a particularly active bunch on the country's home continent Europe - end up contributing any edits to the map at all.

ONLY 300,000 editors?

I was talking to my boss about a project that was about mapping and the project's been put on hold, but OSM is probably our choice of technology because it's sensitive and we can run the whole thing offline, and the mapping is good enough for what we need.

As someone who spends probably 70% of my professional efforts on GIS and mapping, we're constantly trying to evaluate where we can run analysis on OSM data vs Google/Navteq/ESRI/other datasets.

I've only been at it for 4 years, but OSM has improved tremendously in that time. We use it to do distance algorithms on their street network (with some satellite image eyeballing in sensitive areas for verification) because other datasets have been outdated. Google has a great dataset but the "O" part of OSM appeals to a lot of professionals I talk to at conferences, when you purchase or use google data at large scales it's hard to get any sort of arrangement that doesn't result in Google having some sort of access to and rights relating to the things you do with it, given the way they (and most mammoth companies) write their contracts.

I think OSM is pretty exciting, even if you'll encounter obviously fake/misleading things from time to time and people copy Persian flaws from other sources and whatnot. People said the same thing about wikipedia, but the mischief hasn't (yet) happened at large enough scales to impact the project as a whole. Especially as phones/google goggles/smart glasses make it easier and easier to quickly submit corrections or improve the quality.

Electromax: As someone who spends probably 70% of my professional efforts on GIS and mapping, we're constantly trying to evaluate where we can run analysis on OSM data vs Google/Navteq/ESRI/other datasets.

I've only been at it for 4 years, but OSM has improved tremendously in that time. We use it to do distance algorithms on their street network (with some satellite image eyeballing in sensitive areas for verification) because other datasets have been outdated. Google has a great dataset but the "O" part of OSM appeals to a lot of professionals I talk to at conferences, when you purchase or use google data at large scales it's hard to get any sort of arrangement that doesn't result in Google having some sort of access to and rights relating to the things you do with it, given the way they (and most mammoth companies) write their contracts.

I think OSM is pretty exciting, even if you'll encounter obviously fake/misleading things from time to time and people copy Persian flaws from other sources and whatnot. People said the same thing about wikipedia, but the mischief hasn't (yet) happened at large enough scales to impact the project as a whole. Especially as phones/google goggles/smart glasses make it easier and easier to quickly submit corrections or improve the quality.

GIS guy here. I haven't worked with streets in a while but last time i was using Navtech and ...some other 3rd party software. Is that what google is based on ( ithought)?

DirkValentine: Electromax: As someone who spends probably 70% of my professional efforts on GIS and mapping, we're constantly trying to evaluate where we can run analysis on OSM data vs Google/Navteq/ESRI/other datasets.

I've only been at it for 4 years, but OSM has improved tremendously in that time. We use it to do distance algorithms on their street network (with some satellite image eyeballing in sensitive areas for verification) because other datasets have been outdated. Google has a great dataset but the "O" part of OSM appeals to a lot of professionals I talk to at conferences, when you purchase or use google data at large scales it's hard to get any sort of arrangement that doesn't result in Google having some sort of access to and rights relating to the things you do with it, given the way they (and most mammoth companies) write their contracts.

I think OSM is pretty exciting, even if you'll encounter obviously fake/misleading things from time to time and people copy Persian flaws from other sources and whatnot. People said the same thing about wikipedia, but the mischief hasn't (yet) happened at large enough scales to impact the project as a whole. Especially as phones/google goggles/smart glasses make it easier and easier to quickly submit corrections or improve the quality.

GIS guy here. I haven't worked with streets in a while but last time i was using Navtech and ...some other 3rd party software. Is that what google is based on ( ithought)?

Yeah, Navteq as far as I know. I used google up there as more people would recognize that name, but they use Navteq data (along with Bing and others). Navteq was purchased by Nokia a couple years ago, they might be known by a different name now? Navteq/Google's data was super expensive for a smaller company like ours, at least a couple years ago.

IIRC Apple uses TomTom as their data source. Don't know much about them, but I know from my work in LIDAR and remote sensing that Navteq is about as cutting-edge as I've seen when it comes to data collection of the street network.

This one is neat: NAVTEQ LIDAR 3D Street Mapping

We did a big LIDAR "state of the tech" report for an international equipment manufacturer last month, and it got me pretty interested in the technology. You can do some damn cool stuff with it. There's an off-brand Roomba with a cheap LIDAR unit it uses for navigation you can get for ~$400 for some in-home experimentation mapping too, if you're a tinkerer.

Electromax: DirkValentine: Electromax: As someone who spends probably 70% of my professional efforts on GIS and mapping, we're constantly trying to evaluate where we can run analysis on OSM data vs Google/Navteq/ESRI/other datasets.

I've only been at it for 4 years, but OSM has improved tremendously in that time. We use it to do distance algorithms on their street network (with some satellite image eyeballing in sensitive areas for verification) because other datasets have been outdated. Google has a great dataset but the "O" part of OSM appeals to a lot of professionals I talk to at conferences, when you purchase or use google data at large scales it's hard to get any sort of arrangement that doesn't result in Google having some sort of access to and rights relating to the things you do with it, given the way they (and most mammoth companies) write their contracts.

I think OSM is pretty exciting, even if you'll encounter obviously fake/misleading things from time to time and people copy Persian flaws from other sources and whatnot. People said the same thing about wikipedia, but the mischief hasn't (yet) happened at large enough scales to impact the project as a whole. Especially as phones/google goggles/smart glasses make it easier and easier to quickly submit corrections or improve the quality.

GIS guy here. I haven't worked with streets in a while but last time i was using Navtech and ...some other 3rd party software. Is that what google is based on ( ithought)?

Yeah, Navteq as far as I know. I used google up there as more people would recognize that name, but they use Navteq data (along with Bing and others). Navteq was purchased by Nokia a couple years ago, they might be known by a different name now? Navteq/Google's data was super expensive for a smaller company like ours, at least a couple years ago.

IIRC Apple uses TomTom as their data source. Don't know much about them, but I know from my work in LIDAR and remote sensing that Navteq is about as cutting-edge as ...

Oh, that's freaking cool. i work for the railroad now and we use LiDAR on the hy-rail vehicles to remap ALL of our tracks. there are some seriously cool point clouds from that.

Anyone know a decent PC-based navigation software? I currently use PC Navigator on my laptop with OSM maps and a GPS receiver on the roof of a vehicle, but while the maps are good the software is a bit obnoxious to use. The interface feels a bit like GeoCities sites looked back in the day.

It looks like a lot of the major navigation system makers like Garmin got out of the market of PC-based navigation and are focusing entirely on their devices.

Free would be best, cheap is ok.

heypete: Anyone know a decent PC-based navigation software? I currently use PC Navigator on my laptop with OSM maps and a GPS receiver on the roof of a vehicle, but while the maps are good the software is a bit obnoxious to use. The interface feels a bit like GeoCities sites looked back in the day.

It looks like a lot of the major navigation system makers like Garmin got out of the market of PC-based navigation and are focusing entirely on their devices.

Free would be best, cheap is ok.

maps.google.com

meanmutton: heypete: Anyone know a decent PC-based navigation software? I currently use PC Navigator on my laptop with OSM maps and a GPS receiver on the roof of a vehicle, but while the maps are good the software is a bit obnoxious to use. The interface feels a bit like GeoCities sites looked back in the day.

It looks like a lot of the major navigation system makers like Garmin got out of the market of PC-based navigation and are focusing entirely on their devices.

Free would be best, cheap is ok.

maps.google.com

Ah, perhaps I should have been more clear in specifying that I was looking for an offline program because it's going to be used in a car, I don't have a smartphone, and it needs to work even in the absence of mobile phone service.

Naturally, I use Google Maps for most of my online mapping needs but when in remote areas having an entirely-self-contained setup is better.

For any fellow weirdos that have an interest in geocaching, from my experience, OpenStreetMap beats the pants off any Garmin offerings in terms of trail coverage and accuracy.

Crying about OSM having your street or hospital wrong is like crying your pencil is broken. Sharpen it, dumb arse.

wingnut396: Fark_Guy_Rob: Also - Google can simply stop charging access to it's map data for companies and all the OSM momentum would disappear overnight.

Yeah, but Google actually pays people so their maps are correct. Businesses pay for that. I'm not bagging on OSM and I will likely get some offline maps for when I travel, but the offering is quite light right now. One of the major hospitals in my town that has moved close to a year ago now is still listed in the old location. Not a good thing for a map. But at least OPM has an amenity code for finding swinger clubs and baby drop boxes.

amenity swingerclub A club where people meet to have a party and group sex.

amenity baby_hatch a place where you can drop a baby anonymously for adoption

Also as this is pretty much a wiki, I would imagine people could purposely change map data just to fark with a person or business. Its one thing to lie about a company's history on Wiki, it would be another to have map data so it directs client and customer to the wrong location.

I'm really tempted to start changing the baby hatch locations to Chinese restaurants. For the lulz, of course.

Well... i'm convinced... I mean, they clearly had a video of a CGI globe spinning, with random lights illuminating to signify the growth of whatever they were peddling... Done deal.

alwaysjaded: error 303: Time to invoke Cuil Theory.

One Cuil = One level of abstraction away from the reality of a situation.

Example: You ask me for a Hamburger.

1 Cuil: if you asked me for a hamburger, and I gave you a raccoon.

2 Cuils: If you asked me for a hamburger, but it turns out I don't really exist. Where I was originally standing, a picture of a hamburger rests on the ground.

3 Cuils: You awake as a hamburger. You start screaming only to have special sauce fly from your lips. The world is in sepia.

4 Cuils: Why are we speaking German? A mime cries softly as he cradles a young cow. Your grandfather stares at you as the cow falls apart into patties. You look down only to see me with pickles for eyes, I am singing the song that gives birth to the universe.

5 Cuils: You ask for a hamburger, I give you a hamburger. You raise it to your lips and take a bite. Your eye twitches involuntarily. Across the street a father of three falls down the stairs. You swallow and look down at the hamburger in your hands. I give you a hamburger. You swallow and look down at the hamburger in your hands. You cannot swallow. There are children at the top of the stairs. A pickle shifts uneasily under the bun. I give you a hamburger. You look at my face, and I am pleading with you. The children are crying now. You raise the hamburger to your lips, tears stream down your face as you take a bite. I give you a hamburger. You are on your knees. You plead with me to go across the street. I hear only children's laughter. I give you a hamburger. You are screaming as you fall down the stairs. I am your child. You cannot see anything. You take a bite of the hamburger. The concrete rushes up to meet you. You awake with a start in your own bed. Your eye twitches involuntarily. I give you a hamburger. As you kill me, I do not make a sound. I give you a hamburger.

6 Cuils: You ask me for a hamburger. My attempt to reciprocate is cut brutally short as my body experiences a sudden lack of electrons. Ac ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfdEdE96En0