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(InfoWorld)   Microsoft's 13 worst missteps of all time   (infoworld.com) divider line 160
    More: Fail, Zune, Microsoft, Windows, MS-DOS, word processors, Start Menu, Excel, crates  
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10088 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Jan 2013 at 9:54 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-14 09:22:16 AM
8 pages? Really? It takes 8 pages to list 13 things that MS didn't do well? Jeez I'm glad the author didn't go with 25 or 100 things.
 
2013-01-14 09:59:33 AM
8 farking pages..
 
2013-01-14 10:02:07 AM
Can someone do that Voodoo that you do and make it all on page? I'm ok with two pages, SOMETIMES even 3, but this is redic.
 
2013-01-14 10:02:25 AM
Microsoft misstep No. 13: DOS 4.0
Microsoft misstep No. 12: The evil cuties Bob, Clippy, and Rover
Microsoft misstep No. 11: Zune, Kin, Courier, Windows Mobile, and missing the consumer mobile boat
Microsoft misstep No. 10: Bad Windows: Do they run in cycles?
Microsoft misstep No. 9: Windows Ultimate
Microsoft misstep No. 8: Windows Genuine Advantage
Microsoft misstep No. 7. Branding
Microsoft misstep No. 6. Windows Live
Microsoft misstep No. 5: Windows 8
Microsoft misstep No. 4: Windows 8 branding
Microsoft misstep No. 3: Missed opportunities in the cloud
Microsoft misstep No. 2: Management musical chairs
Microsoft misstep No. 1: Internet Explorer 6
 
2013-01-14 10:03:43 AM

cretinbob: 8 pages? Really? It takes 8 pages to list 13 things that MS didn't do well? Jeez I'm glad the author didn't go with 25 or 100 things.



If you hit print it's only one page

Link
 
2013-01-14 10:08:05 AM
 
2013-01-14 10:11:00 AM
I got a new laptop Saturday and I've been doing battle with Windows 8 since then.  The Tiles screen is perfect for ADD people.
 
2013-01-14 10:13:19 AM
Their ventures into robo-dildonics haven't yielded much fruit, yet.
 
2013-01-14 10:26:02 AM
1. Hiring Steve Ballmer.
 
2013-01-14 10:31:26 AM
They forgot to leave out how the architecture Windows uses makes it a hacker's paradise.

/don't have to pay the Windows price
/livin' in hacker's paradise
 
2013-01-14 10:33:31 AM
funny, none of those things ever bothered me

/win 8 tablet pc
//no cure for sh*tty slide shows
 
2013-01-14 10:33:40 AM
OF ALLLL LTIME.!!!!!
 
2013-01-14 10:36:11 AM

bighairyguy: I got a new laptop Saturday and I've been doing battle with Windows 8 since then.  The Tiles screen is perfect for ADD people.


I made the mistake of 'upgrading' to Windows 8, sweet mother of Christ, I hate it. Thankfully, this article helped me revert to a Windows 7-type UI http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/software-and-web-apps/how-to-make-windows-8- look-like-windows-7-50009546/
 
2013-01-14 10:41:58 AM

styckx: Microsoft misstep No. 13: DOS 4.0
Microsoft misstep No. 12: The evil cuties Bob, Clippy, and Rover
Microsoft misstep No. 11: Zune, Kin, Courier, Windows Mobile, and missing the consumer mobile boat
Microsoft misstep No. 10: Bad Windows: Do they run in cycles?
Microsoft misstep No. 9: Windows Ultimate
Microsoft misstep No. 8: Windows Genuine Advantage
Microsoft misstep No. 7. Branding
Microsoft misstep No. 6. Windows Live
Microsoft misstep No. 5: Windows 8
Microsoft misstep No. 4: Windows 8 branding
Microsoft misstep No. 3: Missed opportunities in the cloud
Microsoft misstep No. 2: Management musical chairs
Microsoft misstep No. 1: Internet Explorer 6


Not a bad list, but, way out of order as far as how bad it is for Microsoft.

#11 should clearly be #1.... because they had the desktop platform market basically locked in in the late 90s & early 2000's, even more than today... they could have gotten out in front of Apple in the mobile device space and had products that really cleanly worked well and synced well with their OS.  Instead they fumbled around with it and with the music space, neither of which I think they'll be able to really get above #3 on ahead of Apple & Google/Android now.
 
2013-01-14 10:47:36 AM

moothemagiccow: 1. Hiring Steve Ballmer.


I thought he was some sort of art installation
 
2013-01-14 10:48:16 AM
I think Microsofts biggest misstep was Windows ME. And not because of the typical because it's fun to make fun of Windows Me but because Windows 2000 was already farking out an 3000% superior to it. I have no idea to this day why Microsoft pushed yet another FAT32 OS to the moon over a superior NTFS based product that was already on the market and largely never marketed. The NT file system was 100% ready for prime time in Windows 2000 and MS just dropped the ball completely. Yet they market the popular opposite. An unstable bluescreen generating shiatstick.
 
2013-01-14 10:50:48 AM
so i see you are trying to make a list...

cache.ohinternet.com
 
2013-01-14 10:51:17 AM
I haven't heard of a single person who got Windows 8 and actually like the Metro tiles thing.

The first second I saw Windows 8 in action, I was asking how to disable those damn tiles and get to a normal looking desktop.

Fortunately, it can be done. However, I fear for future Windows releases in which using the tiles will be mandatory.
 
2013-01-14 10:54:02 AM

doczoidberg: I haven't heard of a single person who got Windows 8 and actually like the Metro tiles thing.


I like it and use it daily as do many others.. I actually uninstalled Start 8 and just use the start screen now. It's quite convenient at organizing your apps instead of pinning 900 things to the taskbar or digging through the start menu which was farking awful to open and quickly find what you needed.
 
2013-01-14 10:55:20 AM
Annoyingly i had my first pro win 8 comment from a user the other day...eugh...if he can get to grips with it, then i'm farked with my 'but people won't understand' argument with the purchasing IT guy.
 
2013-01-14 10:56:56 AM
As a geek with a long memory, I'm glad that they included DOS 4.
 
2013-01-14 10:59:56 AM
That's a lot of prose detailing what could be summarized with: Consumers.
 
2013-01-14 11:02:37 AM

doczoidberg: I haven't heard of a single person who got Windows 8 and actually like the Metro tiles thing.

The first second I saw Windows 8 in action, I was asking how to disable those damn tiles and get to a normal looking desktop.


I wouldn't say I like it, but I don't dislike it. I'll admit for the first day or so I wasn't a fan but it's not nearly as bad as many make it out to be.

That being said, there's loads of room for improvement in terms of customization there... Hopefully they'll add some additional options with one of the service pack releases.

/To get to the normal looking desktop, you click on the desktop tile. Not sure why that's an issue.
 
2013-01-14 11:07:04 AM

styckx: Microsoft misstep No. 13: DOS 4.0
Microsoft misstep No. 12: The evil cuties Bob, Clippy, and Rover
Microsoft misstep No. 11: Zune, Kin, Courier, Windows Mobile, and missing the consumer mobile boat
Microsoft misstep No. 10: Bad Windows: Do they run in cycles?
Microsoft misstep No. 9: Windows Ultimate
Microsoft misstep No. 8: Windows Genuine Advantage
Microsoft misstep No. 7. Branding
Microsoft misstep No. 6. Windows Live
Microsoft misstep No. 5: Windows 8
Microsoft misstep No. 4: Windows 8 branding
Microsoft misstep No. 3: Missed opportunities in the cloud
Microsoft misstep No. 2: Management musical chairs
Microsoft misstep No. 1: Internet Explorer 6



FTFY
 
2013-01-14 11:09:54 AM
I don't miss Windows one bit.  Haven't had to touch it since I started working for myself.  That removed a major source of stress.  Here's to the memories:
 
2013-01-14 11:11:04 AM
Wouldn't it be quicker to make a list of what they did right?

DOS
Windows 95
Windows XP
Office

Even these will be debated by folks.

Danger of getting fat and lazy, folks. Are you paying attention Google?
 
2013-01-14 11:18:40 AM
Just remember this gem from IBM

imgs.xkcd.com
 
2013-01-14 11:23:40 AM

Desquamation: doczoidberg: I haven't heard of a single person who got Windows 8 and actually like the Metro tiles thing.

The first second I saw Windows 8 in action, I was asking how to disable those damn tiles and get to a normal looking desktop.


I wouldn't say I like it, but I don't dislike it. I'll admit for the first day or so I wasn't a fan but it's not nearly as bad as many make it out to be.

That being said, there's loads of room for improvement in terms of customization there... Hopefully they'll add some additional options with one of the service pack releases.

/To get to the normal looking desktop, you click on the desktop tile. Not sure why that's an issue.


Windows 8 is going to be a disaster for most users for quite a while, maybe the entire of its product cycle. The fact that you can end up with Skype (Modern UI) and Skype for Desktop installed on the same PC (and you need skype for desktop currently if you want to send files and various other things) and if someone calls you both versions start ringing, and whichever one you answer, the other continues ringing while you are on the call unless you switch and manually turn it off. Of course a temporary solution is to uninstall all Modern UI apps so you don't accidentally end up in Modern UI when you double click files (like pdf's, say) and install classic shell with all options on.

Maybe in a few years time application developers will have caught up with Modern UI and you can use it properly without switching between effectively two completely different operating systems for most tasks, probably around the time Windows 9 gets to service pack 1, or maybe Microsoft will fold and do something different (I could easily see them caving and making it so Modern UI apps can be windowed and appear on the desktop. Obviously the idea of merging desktop application and web application into one system has been a long term aim for Microsoft since the creation of .NET, and the Modern UI is a crucial step down that route, but I am quite happy to leave the beta testing to others.
 
2013-01-14 11:26:42 AM

styckx: doczoidberg: I haven't heard of a single person who got Windows 8 and actually like the Metro tiles thing.


I like it and use it daily as do many others.. I actually uninstalled Start 8 and just use the start screen now. It's quite convenient at organizing your apps instead of pinning 900 things to the taskbar or digging through the start menu which was farking awful to open and quickly find what you needed.


Wow, you find it hard to type in a simple phrase in the start menu's search box?

The problem with Metro is it removes the explicit nature of the Windows GUI in favor of a ton of keyboard commands and gestures. It's a step backward removing visual cues on a desktop interface, too.

Basically, 30 years of UI research in the toilet to acclimatize desktop users to your mobile UI.... which is different for very specific and good reasons from a desktop interface.

There was never a need to unify the UI. Desktops, Game console, Tabletop/surface/tablet and Phone UIs all have their own patterns of use, and should always be different. Desktops and Game consoles rarely have touchscreens, which work better with gestures and have more screen real estate, which means it's good to have visual cues (like buttons and title bars); tablets and phones will always have touchscreens and limited screen real estate, so we use gestures and hide visual cues. Phones tend to be used with thumbs... which puts a different emphasis on how the gestures work over tablet (or "surface") devices that tend toward fingertips.

Game consoles work through gamepads (and with Kinect, through voice and whole-body gestures).

Desktops and laptops have pointing devices (which are TERRIBLE at gestures) and keyboards. Desktops have lots of screen real estate (laptops not so much, but far better than other mobile devices)

I'm not even delving into industrial controls, which have a whole other set and range of requirements for the UI, depending on many factors).

In summary, Windows 8 defies conventional wisdom, and does it for the sole purpose of promoting Microsoft's mobile device agenda, which is NOT a worthwhile reason. Users may get used to it, but that doesn't mean they'll ever be as productive as they would be with a traditional Desktop UI. In the end, a user that is enamored with Metro is more likely just experiencing the "new car smell" effect.
 
2013-01-14 11:30:28 AM

Desquamation: To get to the normal looking desktop, you click on the desktop tile. Not sure why that's an issue.

 


I figured that out after a minute or two.

What I'm REALLY dreading is the day when even doing THAT is no longer an option.  Eventually, Microsoft will double down on the whole Tiles thing, and force us to use them all of the time.

I dunno; the tiles make me feel like I have no control over the files I store on my machine. I like to create folders, cut and paste...move stuff around...look at a file's properties...and I feel like you can't really do that on a mobile device, or Metro.
 
2013-01-14 11:35:45 AM

doczoidberg: Desquamation: To get to the normal looking desktop, you click on the desktop tile. Not sure why that's an issue.
I figured that out after a minute or two.

What I'm REALLY dreading is the day when even doing THAT is no longer an option.  Eventually, Microsoft will double down on the whole Tiles thing, and force us to use them all of the time.

I dunno; the tiles make me feel like I have no control over the files I store on my machine. I like to create folders, cut and paste...move stuff around...look at a file's properties...and I feel like you can't really do that on a mobile device, or Metro.


Holy shiat you're being a drama queen.. You can do the same exact shiat on Windows 8 as you could on Windows 7, Vista, and XP and more efficiently.
 
2013-01-14 11:42:15 AM
You know your company has problems when Vista and ME are not even listed...
 
2013-01-14 11:42:17 AM

doczoidberg:
What I'm REALLY dreading is the day when even doing THAT is no longer an option.  Eventually, Microsoft will double down on the whole Tiles thing, and force us to use them all of the time.

I dunno; the tiles make me feel like I have no control over the files I store on my machine. I like to create folders, cut and paste...move stuff around...look at a file's properties...and I feel like you can't really do that on a mobile device, or Metro.


If that day ever comes I'll drop Windows in a heartbeat.

I'd like to see a lot more customization options for the new Start screen as well... I'm hopeful Microsoft will figure it out.

Like I said, I don't like Win8 (If I didn't have a TechNet subscription it's unlikely I'd go out and purchase an upgrade).
 
2013-01-14 11:47:33 AM
Interesting read.

On a related note, I will probably upgrade from Windows 7 to something else for the same reason I upgraded from XP - it didn't have the ability to fully utilize the hardware in my new PC. I imagine it will be a long time before I reach that point again.
 
2013-01-14 11:59:12 AM

Cormee: bighairyguy: I got a new laptop Saturday and I've been doing battle with Windows 8 since then.  The Tiles screen is perfect for ADD people.

I made the mistake of 'upgrading' to Windows 8, sweet mother of Christ, I hate it. Thankfully, this article helped me revert to a Windows 7-type UI http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/software-and-web-apps/how-to-make-windows-8- look-like-windows-7-50009546/


Link was wonky but I searched CNET and found some good stuff.  Thanks!
 
2013-01-14 11:59:18 AM
That was painful to read. Not because of sympathy for Microsoft, but because it was so badly written.
 
2013-01-14 12:05:33 PM

doczoidberg: I haven't heard of a single person who got Windows 8 and actually like the Metro tiles thing.


Having a laptop that is a "convertible", when I installed 8, I customized it to be as much like 7 as I could. The last couple weeks, been playing around with the Metro UI, and it isn't that bad. I can go back and forth between the two, going from using the trackpad in the Win7 desktop to the Metro UI and my touchscreen pretty seamlessly.

My one gripe so far in my daily use.... no live tile for Outlook 2010 for notifications. From what I hear, there won't be any for the next version of Outlook, either.
 
2013-01-14 12:13:37 PM
I upgraded our two older XP desktops last week (one for $15, shoulda lied to save on other maybe). One is in the kids room, and I think the interface will work for him. The other is relegated to mostly media playing (with a free win8 media player voucher). It was kinda a hassle switching between modes/programs to set things up, but the upgrade overall seemed worth the expense. I might even upgrade my mother's XP. Our gaming pc will remain 7, largely because I want to retain XP compatability.

It's really a matter of your needs/usage. I don't particularly see the advantage of 8 over 7; but by all accounts I've read, 8, despite the start screen, is a solid OS. At the moment, the price is right.
 
2013-01-14 12:15:45 PM

RoxtarRyan: doczoidberg: I haven't heard of a single person who got Windows 8 and actually like the Metro tiles thing.

Having a laptop that is a "convertible", when I installed 8, I customized it to be as much like 7 as I could. The last couple weeks, been playing around with the Metro UI, and it isn't that bad. I can go back and forth between the two, going from using the trackpad in the Win7 desktop to the Metro UI and my touchscreen pretty seamlessly.

My one gripe so far in my daily use.... no live tile for Outlook 2010 for notifications. From what I hear, there won't be any for the next version of Outlook, either.


The Metro Apps are the biggest disappointment. I love Metro for organizing my stuff but holy shiat the app store is filled with bullshiat.. I haven't' found a single redeeming app yet.. Microsofts app store managed to fill itself up with more useless shiat made by some developer in a basement in Singapore than the Google Play Store. It's also organized like shiat too.
 
2013-01-14 12:21:05 PM

likefunbutnot: As a geek with a long memory, I'm glad that they included DOS 4.


I am annoyed that they omitted DOS 6
 
2013-01-14 12:29:32 PM

Oakenshield: That's a lot of prose detailing what could be summarized with: Consumers.


Are you implying that MS is fine, it's consumers that are the problem?
 
2013-01-14 12:29:33 PM

jst3p: I am annoyed that they omitted DOS 6


4 was bad enough that it was only a matter of a few months before they jumped to the next major version number. 6 just begat 6.1.

Microsoft does not work in the consumer space. They think they do - and the Xbox is certainly the dominant gaming platform now, which might be worth something if they could leverage it into anything else, but they're completely clueless about all things consumer so it's not going to happen. Eventually, Microsoft will figure out that they've completely superseded IBM as the button-down business tools company and quit wasting money on trying to be all things to all people.
 
2013-01-14 12:30:21 PM
Courier would have been interesting to see. Maybe they'll dust off the concept one day.
 
2013-01-14 12:36:56 PM
Every indication is that the Metro UI is here to stay. I have been using Windows 8 since beta and I am still getting used to where they place things. (They are telling people to use Search in order to find apps on the Desktop UI - really? Is that the best MS can do after all these versions?) I don't see this version as horrible after you start getting used to it, but I am not suggesting that others should even give it a try. They had enough issues finding things in 7, Windows 8 will only make the experience even more aggrevating for them.
 
2013-01-14 12:37:50 PM

styckx: doczoidberg: I haven't heard of a single person who got Windows 8 and actually like the Metro tiles thing.


I like it and use it daily as do many others.. I actually uninstalled Start 8 and just use the start screen now. It's quite convenient at organizing your apps instead of pinning 900 things to the taskbar or digging through the start menu which was farking awful to open and quickly find what you needed.


The 'metro' interface is fine on the 4" screen of a mobile phone.  But it simply doesn't work on a 27" screen of a desktop.

/14.  Not burying the "windows" brand name
 
2013-01-14 12:38:25 PM
ITT , more people scared of change.
 
2013-01-14 12:39:33 PM

gingerjet: styckx: doczoidberg: I haven't heard of a single person who got Windows 8 and actually like the Metro tiles thing.


I like it and use it daily as do many others.. I actually uninstalled Start 8 and just use the start screen now. It's quite convenient at organizing your apps instead of pinning 900 things to the taskbar or digging through the start menu which was farking awful to open and quickly find what you needed.

The 'metro' interface is fine on the 4" screen of a mobile phone.  But it simply doesn't work on a 27" screen of a desktop.

/14.  Not burying the "windows" brand name


Umm...then turn it off? Don't hurt yourself, now.
 
2013-01-14 12:41:47 PM
I upgraded to 8 from 7 two weeks ago, and I'm doing a clean install of 8 right now.  Here's my overriding suggestion:  DON'T DO AN UPGRADE.  It ran like dogshiat.  My boot time went from just over a minute to four, it wouldn't shut down properly, and after two weeks of trying to figure out which drivers were working but clearly weren't made for Windows 8, I just started over.  I have plenty of backups, so reinstallation of needed software isn't an issue.

So far, it's ten times faster than it was before.  My boot time is back to Windows 7 status, and it shuts down TONS faster.  I can't say I like the interface, but after a week of customizing it I wasn't taking any longer to use my computer than I did before.

Beyond the kludgy new interface, it's really just a big service pack for Windows 7.  Some new features are nice, like the rollback options and the file transfer windows.
 
2013-01-14 12:41:48 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Oakenshield: That's a lot of prose detailing what could be summarized with: Consumers.

Are you implying that MS is fine, it's consumers that are the problem?


www.simpsonspark.com
Am I so out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong.
 
2013-01-14 12:42:15 PM

pkellmey: They had enough issues finding things in 7


A lot of users are completely, totally indignant that they're asked to use a keyboard at all, but desktops and notebooks are kind of silly to use with a touchscreen. Combining the two concepts was just a dumb idea, especially since it ironically makes almost everyone use the keyboard more than any Microsoft OS since DOS.
 
2013-01-14 12:42:22 PM
The Rover cartoon helper in Bob appeared, unchanged, as the Search Companion in Windows XP's Windows Explorer. Rover and his similarly designed cohorts -- Merlin the magician, Earl the surfer, and Courtney (the courtesan?) -- offered to help perform local searches on the Windows XP desktop.

I actually have Rover as the "Search" character. I like him.
 
2013-01-14 12:42:48 PM

likefunbutnot: and the Xbox is certainly the dominant gaming platform now


Huh? Dominant?

martinhingley.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-01-14 12:44:07 PM

styckx: The Metro Apps are the biggest disappointment. I love Metro for organizing my stuff but holy shiat the app store is filled with bullshiat.. I haven't' found a single redeeming app yet.. Microsofts app store managed to fill itself up with more useless shiat made by some developer in a basement in Singapore than the Google Play Store. It's also organized like shiat too.


I haven't toyed much around with it, but noting the lack of an easy-to-use media player for all my music I already have. I couldn't have been that hard to take WMP and alter it for the Metro UI.
I must say that I do like the social networking tile, though. Being able to put FB, Twitter or anything else in one tile that auto-updates (and caches recent updates) is pretty slick. Dig the weather tile, as well.
Oh, last gripe... but this has a bit more to do with my ISP. Comcast doesn't officially support IMAP or EAS, so the built-in mail tile won't let me use my primary email account, and unless I sign up for the beta IMAP program, is pretty much useless to me.

Unless I'm using the Smartglass App, or laying in bed surfing, I' ve been pretty much sticking to the older Win7 UI.
 
2013-01-14 12:45:09 PM
Not releasing the other DOS 4 was perhaps not a mistake, but was still a Bad Thing. Having a decent, cheap, multitasking system back in the day would have been nice (but might have shoved out well-made tools like, Desqview, too).
 
2013-01-14 12:46:52 PM
So many Windows 8 hate threads...

I haven't used it yet, but I bought a copy of Windows 8 for my new computer. Why? Better licensing. It was $100 for both Windows 7 OEM and Windows 8 OEM, but Windows 8 you can actually upgrade the motherboard without invalidating your license. Plus, you're not supposed to use Windows 7 OEM to build your own computer and the retail Windows 7 package was $200. Windows 8 OEM specifically has Personal Use License for building your own PC.

Metro UI seems like a small price to pay for vastly superior licensing.
 
2013-01-14 12:52:01 PM

Lsherm: I upgraded to 8 from 7 two weeks ago, and I'm doing a clean install of 8 right now. Here's my overriding suggestion: DON'T DO AN UPGRADE.


Well, for $40, you get a full Win8 Pro key (still available till the end of Jan). Doing an upgrade might be the only option a lot of people have, since the full install key might be a tad more expensive.

So, what I did was a fresh install of 7, then went to 8. No problems noted.
 
2013-01-14 12:54:10 PM

RoxtarRyan: Lsherm: I upgraded to 8 from 7 two weeks ago, and I'm doing a clean install of 8 right now. Here's my overriding suggestion: DON'T DO AN UPGRADE.

Well, for $40, you get a full Win8 Pro key (still available till the end of Jan). Doing an upgrade might be the only option a lot of people have, since the full install key might be a tad more expensive.

So, what I did was a fresh install of 7, then went to 8. No problems noted.


I don't care what OS it is clean install is greater than upgrade.
 
2013-01-14 01:01:59 PM
lucksi: You know your company has problems when Vista and ME are not even listed...

You know how I can tell you DRTFA?
 
2013-01-14 01:09:05 PM

gbob23: Wouldn't it be quicker to make a list of what they did right?

DOS
Windows 95
Windows XP
Office

Even these will be debated by folks.

Danger of getting fat and lazy, folks. Are you paying attention Google?


I dunno, I kinda thought Age of Empires II was pretty darn good. And Windows 7.
 
2013-01-14 01:10:23 PM

jst3p: likefunbutnot: and the Xbox is certainly the dominant gaming platform now

Huh? Dominant?

[martinhingley.files.wordpress.com image 468x349]


You're not supposed to look at the number of sales! You're supposed to look at the change in the rate of change of the percentage of sales! And you can clearly see that the change in the rate of change of the percentage of sales is clearly in microsoft's favor here.
 
2013-01-14 01:13:07 PM

Fark Me Runnin: gbob23: Wouldn't it be quicker to make a list of what they did right?

DOS
Windows 95
Windows XP
Office

Even these will be debated by folks.

Danger of getting fat and lazy, folks. Are you paying attention Google?

I dunno, I kinda thought Age of Empires II was pretty darn good. And Windows 7.


In the late 90's they made a damn good mouse too.
 
2013-01-14 01:14:40 PM

xria: Windows 8 is going to be a disaster for most users for quite a while, maybe the entire of its product cycle. The fact that you can end up with Skype (Modern UI) and Skype for Desktop installed on the same PC (and you need skype for desktop currently if you want to send files and various other things) and if someone calls you both versions start ringing, and whichever one you answer, the other continues ringing while you are on the call unless you switch and manually turn it off. Of course a temporary solution is to uninstall all Modern UI apps so you don't accidentally end up in Modern UI when you double click files (like pdf's, say) and install classic shell with all options on.


Are you freaking serious?
Wow that's awful. I had no idea.
 
2013-01-14 01:26:24 PM
Games for Windows Live aka an interface so bad as to make GTA IV unplayable.

I'd also put up as a misstep the change they put into office a few years back. They took out the standard tried-and-true copied by everyone and their mother menu bar of 'file edit xxx yyy zzz help' and replaced it with a button. I'm a computer geek and I still haven't been able to find where they put all the stuff I used to use - mainly because after trying to find 'save as' for fifteen minutes I decided it would be quicker to download OpenOffice, get the old interface back, and never have to pay $100 to open an excel file again.
 
2013-01-14 01:30:41 PM

State_College_Arsonist: Courier would have been interesting to see. Maybe they'll dust off the concept one day.


This.

But only if Apple or Android took the concept and ran with it.

Microsoft has one good hardware product, the Xbox. Every other HW product they have released has been an absolute disaster.
 
2013-01-14 01:31:43 PM

RoxtarRyan: Lsherm: I upgraded to 8 from 7 two weeks ago, and I'm doing a clean install of 8 right now. Here's my overriding suggestion: DON'T DO AN UPGRADE.

Well, for $40, you get a full Win8 Pro key (still available till the end of Jan). Doing an upgrade might be the only option a lot of people have, since the full install key might be a tad more expensive.

So, what I did was a fresh install of 7, then went to 8. No problems noted.


If you get a full key for $40, then shouldn't you just be able to do a new install?

I got mine off technet, so I don't know the pricing.
 
2013-01-14 01:34:52 PM

jst3p: RoxtarRyan: Lsherm: I upgraded to 8 from 7 two weeks ago, and I'm doing a clean install of 8 right now. Here's my overriding suggestion: DON'T DO AN UPGRADE.

Well, for $40, you get a full Win8 Pro key (still available till the end of Jan). Doing an upgrade might be the only option a lot of people have, since the full install key might be a tad more expensive.

So, what I did was a fresh install of 7, then went to 8. No problems noted.

I don't care what OS it is clean install is greater than upgrade.


A windows 8 upgrade key will allow you to do a clean install. When you run the upgrade process from within an existing windows install it asks you if you want to "keep application, documents and setting" (i.e. upgrade) or do a fresh installation.
 
2013-01-14 01:44:16 PM
Not moving their HQ to Texas was a blunder; we could have had Winders.
 
2013-01-14 01:44:46 PM

Pinko_Commie: jst3p: RoxtarRyan: Lsherm: I upgraded to 8 from 7 two weeks ago, and I'm doing a clean install of 8 right now. Here's my overriding suggestion: DON'T DO AN UPGRADE.

Well, for $40, you get a full Win8 Pro key (still available till the end of Jan). Doing an upgrade might be the only option a lot of people have, since the full install key might be a tad more expensive.

So, what I did was a fresh install of 7, then went to 8. No problems noted.

I don't care what OS it is clean install is greater than upgrade.

A windows 8 upgrade key will allow you to do a clean install. When you run the upgrade process from within an existing windows install it asks you if you want to "keep application, documents and setting" (i.e. upgrade) or do a fresh installation.


I find it hilarious that this thread is now devolved into troubleshooting the latest Windows install.
 
2013-01-14 01:48:43 PM

Cymbal: State_College_Arsonist: Courier would have been interesting to see. Maybe they'll dust off the concept one day.

This.

But only if Apple or Android took the concept and ran with it.

Microsoft has one good hardware product, the Xbox. Every other HW product they have released has been an absolute disaster.


They don't have the best track record with using the other companies hardware either. A perfect example is MS not implementing Blu Ray drivers/codecs right out of the box because it would increase the cost by $2 per Windows license. Laptop and drive manufacturers either provide it for their products or people have to go to third party products like VLC which provides it for free.
 
2013-01-14 01:49:39 PM

Karac: Games for Windows Live aka an interface so bad as to make GTA IV unplayable.


I thought I was the only person who was annoyed by the "Games for Windows Live" bullshiat I had to go through every single time I started up GTA IV.

Because I am a human being with human psychologically, I just rationalized it away, figuring that either I was doing something wrong, or it wasn't nearly as terrible as I imagined it to be. I figured there was no way that any project manager could have possibly tested screens and not physically throttled to death the folks responsible for the game the way that I experienced it, so I decided that therefore it must be my problem.

Games for Windows Live is perfect evidence of just how downright hostile and antagonistic Microsoft is toward their customers.
 
2013-01-14 01:57:28 PM
#12: The registry
 
2013-01-14 01:57:31 PM

ipsofacto: I upgraded our two older XP desktops last week (one for $15, shoulda lied to save on other maybe). One is in the kids room, and I think the interface will work for him. The other is relegated to mostly media playing (with a free win8 media player voucher). It was kinda a hassle switching between modes/programs to set things up, but the upgrade overall seemed worth the expense. I might even upgrade my mother's XP. Our gaming pc will remain 7, largely because I want to retain XP compatability.

It's really a matter of your needs/usage. I don't particularly see the advantage of 8 over 7; but by all accounts I've read, 8, despite the start screen, is a solid OS. At the moment, the price is right.


This is actually true. Under the hood, 8 is just 7 with more refinements. The problem is that goddamned half-baked Frankenstein of a UI. Just pony up $5 for Start8 and forget Metro ever existed.

/and ENIAC help us if they decide to kill the "legacy" desktop in 9...
 
2013-01-14 01:58:43 PM

pkellmey: They don't have the best track record with using the other companies hardware either. A perfect example is MS not implementing Blu Ray drivers/codecs right out of the box because it would increase the cost by $2 per Windows license. Laptop and drive manufacturers either provide it for their products or people have to go to third party products like VLC which provides it for free.


You're just talking about Windows 7, right?

Because there's no possible way that any company that wants to dominate the home media market, and with SIXTY BILLION DOLLARS IN CASH, could possibly have shipped Windows 8 without the ability to play Blu-Ray out of the box. That would be absolute insanity.

Microsoft would save perhaps a hundred million dollars a year in Blu-Ray license fees, and in return giving up any hope to dominate a home media market that has the potential to be worth billions of dollars a year in in the next few years. There's no way that any well-run company could ever make a bone-headed decision like that.
 
2013-01-14 01:59:08 PM

jst3p: likefunbutnot: and the Xbox is certainly the dominant gaming platform now

Huh? Dominant?

[martinhingley.files.wordpress.com image 468x349]


jst3p: likefunbutnot: and the Xbox is certainly the dominant gaming platform now

Huh? Dominant?

[martinhingley.files.wordpress.com image 468x349]


I find this one interesting.
martinhingley.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-01-14 01:59:45 PM

The Larch: pkellmey: They don't have the best track record with using the other companies hardware either. A perfect example is MS not implementing Blu Ray drivers/codecs right out of the box because it would increase the cost by $2 per Windows license. Laptop and drive manufacturers either provide it for their products or people have to go to third party products like VLC which provides it for free.

You're just talking about Windows 7, right?

Because there's no possible way that any company that wants to dominate the home media market, and with SIXTY BILLION DOLLARS IN CASH, could possibly have shipped Windows 8 without the ability to play Blu-Ray out of the box. That would be absolute insanity.

Microsoft would save perhaps a hundred million dollars a year in Blu-Ray license fees, and in return giving up any hope to dominate a home media market that has the potential to be worth billions of dollars a year in in the next few years. There's no way that any well-run company could ever make a bone-headed decision like that.


Nope, they are, indeed, that stupid.
 
2013-01-14 02:09:34 PM

gbob23: DOS


They got the marketing right.  They got the OS wrong.

MS-DOS was a turd, even for 1981.  It included some improvements over CP/M, but it could be argued that it was still the inferior OS.  Next to the multitasking, multiuser MP/M, it was primitive.  Same when compared to Microware OS-9 for the MC6809.  One of the best OSes for the 8086 was probably Coherent, a Version 7 UNIX clone from MWC released in '83.

Sure, early IBM PCs were very resource limited.  But just take a look at  GeckOS and OS-9 as examples of a mutlitasking OS that runs well with only 64KB of memory.
 
2013-01-14 02:12:19 PM

Hertzfeld: The fact that you can end up with Skype (Modern UI) and Skype for Desktop installed on the same PC (and you need skype for desktop currently if you want to send files and various other things) and if someone calls you both versions start ringing, and whichever one you answer, the other continues ringing while you are on the call unless you switch and manually turn it off.

Are you freaking serious?
Wow that's awful. I had no idea.


Who the hell is dumb enough to have both the Skype app and the desktop version of Skype running at the same time?
 
2013-01-14 02:12:23 PM

RTFA: #12: The registry


Sadly, the registry was one of those things they more or less sort of got right, kind of. Having a unified database for settings, with a unified API and security infrastructure, is objectively better than spreading all of the configuration around hundreds of tiny files, each with their own unique encoding, syntax, and grammar.

On the other hand, if that unified database for settings has piss-poor browsing and editing tools, no meta-data repository, an easily corruptible physical representation, and gives every installer the rights to crap anything it wants anywhere it wants anywhere in the whole registry, with no possible way for anyone to ever find out what happened? Yeah, that kind of sucks.
 
2013-01-14 02:13:42 PM

bighairyguy: I got a new laptop Saturday and I've been doing battle with Windows 8 since then.  The Tiles screen is perfect for ADD people.


I can't believe they resurrected Pointcast.
 
2013-01-14 02:14:34 PM

Handsome B. Wonderful: Hertzfeld: The fact that you can end up with Skype (Modern UI) and Skype for Desktop installed on the same PC (and you need skype for desktop currently if you want to send files and various other things) and if someone calls you both versions start ringing, and whichever one you answer, the other continues ringing while you are on the call unless you switch and manually turn it off.

Are you freaking serious?
Wow that's awful. I had no idea.

Who the hell is dumb enough to have both the Skype app and the desktop version of Skype running at the same time?


Absolutely 100% agreed. Any product manager who allowed the developers to write a product where both versions could be running at the same time is incredibly dumb.
 
rpm
2013-01-14 02:15:31 PM

gbob23: Wouldn't it be quicker to make a list of what they did right?

DOS
Windows 95
Windows XP
Office

Even these will be debated by folks.

Danger of getting fat and lazy, folks. Are you paying attention Google?


95 was a freaking nightmare and blew chunks.
95 OSR 2 is probably what you mean when you say 95.

It's debatable whether or not 9X should be even on the list of good things because of the 16-bit kludges they kept in.
 
2013-01-14 02:24:45 PM

The Larch: Handsome B. Wonderful: Hertzfeld: The fact that you can end up with Skype (Modern UI) and Skype for Desktop installed on the same PC (and you need skype for desktop currently if you want to send files and various other things) and if someone calls you both versions start ringing, and whichever one you answer, the other continues ringing while you are on the call unless you switch and manually turn it off.

Are you freaking serious?
Wow that's awful. I had no idea.

Who the hell is dumb enough to have both the Skype app and the desktop version of Skype running at the same time?

Absolutely 100% agreed. Any product manager who allowed the developers to write a product where both versions could be running at the same time is incredibly dumb.


Is there no use case for one copy running with user and the other version with the other? I know it'd be an odd one, but there's nothing inherently wrong with both versions running. The flaw is that the other instances don't stop ringing when one is answered.
 
2013-01-14 02:24:48 PM

styckx: Microsoft misstep No. 13: DOS 4.0


I remember dealing with that disaster when I sold PCs. And God help you if you bought a Hyundai PC pre-loaded with Dos 4. You could not replace it with anything else. The computer would not boot. I kid you not. And DOS 3.3 had been such a good product.
 
2013-01-14 02:30:46 PM

jst3p: likefunbutnot: As a geek with a long memory, I'm glad that they included DOS 4.

I am annoyed that they omitted DOS 6


Who knew ripping off Stacker was going to be such a problem for them?
 
2013-01-14 02:37:59 PM

ProfessorOhki: jst3p: likefunbutnot: and the Xbox is certainly the dominant gaming platform now

Huh? Dominant?

[martinhingley.files.wordpress.com image 468x349]

jst3p: likefunbutnot: and the Xbox is certainly the dominant gaming platform now

Huh? Dominant?

[martinhingley.files.wordpress.com image 468x349]

I find this one interesting.
[martinhingley.files.wordpress.com image 468x349]


That one tells me that since 2006 Nintendo has sold more consoles than anyone, by a long shot.
 
2013-01-14 02:38:22 PM

jst3p: Fark Me Runnin: gbob23: Wouldn't it be quicker to make a list of what they did right?

DOS
Windows 95
Windows XP
Office

Even these will be debated by folks.

Danger of getting fat and lazy, folks. Are you paying attention Google?

I dunno, I kinda thought Age of Empires II was pretty darn good. And Windows 7.

In the late 90's they made a damn good mouse too.


aOe the entire series was good.. I still play age of mythology
also arguably dotnet was a success as was sqlserver

/i have yet to buy a M$oft OS. I'm sticking with xp til they pry it from my cold dead pc
 
2013-01-14 02:39:18 PM

Cymbal: State_College_Arsonist: Courier would have been interesting to see. Maybe they'll dust off the concept one day.

This.

But only if Apple or Android took the concept and ran with it.

Microsoft has one good hardware product, the Xbox. Every other HW product they have released has been an absolute disaster.


Their force-feedback joysticks were nice and their force-feedback steering wheel was great. (But neither of those ever got drivers for Windows XP, so they're dead and useless.) And they made a damned nice trackball for a while. Gave my beloved Logitech a real run for the money. And a lot of people really liked their ergonomic keyboards.
 
2013-01-14 02:43:13 PM

rpm: It's debatable whether or not 9X should be even on the list of good things because of the 16-bit kludges they kept in.


It was a necessary evil of the time.  There was just not enough uptake of WinAPI for programs to ditch all of the Real Mode compatibility.

In hindsight, one of Microsoft's greatest mistakes was in not developing a 32-bit DOS extender that utilized the WinAPI.  Imagine if we had HX DOS Extender or some other Win32s extender in 1992/93.  It would still be more lightweight than running Windows 3.x or NT, but it would bring apps into the Protected Mode fold.
 
2013-01-14 02:43:51 PM

sedric: jst3p: Fark Me Runnin: gbob23: Wouldn't it be quicker to make a list of what they did right?

DOS
Windows 95
Windows XP
Office

Even these will be debated by folks.

Danger of getting fat and lazy, folks. Are you paying attention Google?

I dunno, I kinda thought Age of Empires II was pretty darn good. And Windows 7.

In the late 90's they made a damn good mouse too.

aOe the entire series was good.. I still play age of mythology
also arguably dotnet was a success as was sqlserver

/i have yet to buy a M$oft OS. I'm sticking with xp til they pry it from my cold dead pc


Didn't they just buy the small company that was almost done creating the original AoE? Too lazy to google but thats how my memory recalls it.
 
2013-01-14 02:43:53 PM
Eight pages? Is that an allegory for Windows 8?.
 
2013-01-14 02:45:44 PM

pkellmey: They don't have the best track record with using the other companies hardware either. A perfect example is MS not implementing Blu Ray drivers/codecs right out of the box because it would increase the cost by $2 per Windows license. Laptop and drive manufacturers either provide it for their products or people have to go to third party products like VLC which provides it for free.


Why in the hell would an operating system have the driver/codecs for playing blue-rays included when the goddamned blu-ray drive manufacturer provides them with the drive?
 
2013-01-14 02:49:24 PM

Egoy3k: pkellmey: They don't have the best track record with using the other companies hardware either. A perfect example is MS not implementing Blu Ray drivers/codecs right out of the box because it would increase the cost by $2 per Windows license. Laptop and drive manufacturers either provide it for their products or people have to go to third party products like VLC which provides it for free.

Why in the hell would an operating system have the driver/codecs for playing blue-rays included when the goddamned blu-ray drive manufacturer provides them with the drive?


And this is why we can't have nice things. Whenever someone says, "you know, this implementation of X is less than optimal because Y", someone else comes along and says "No, it's because YOU SO STUPID YOU DO IT WRONG!"
 
2013-01-14 02:54:36 PM

The Larch: Egoy3k: pkellmey: They don't have the best track record with using the other companies hardware either. A perfect example is MS not implementing Blu Ray drivers/codecs right out of the box because it would increase the cost by $2 per Windows license. Laptop and drive manufacturers either provide it for their products or people have to go to third party products like VLC which provides it for free.

Why in the hell would an operating system have the driver/codecs for playing blue-rays included when the goddamned blu-ray drive manufacturer provides them with the drive?

And this is why we can't have nice things. Whenever someone says, "you know, this implementation of X is less than optimal because Y", someone else comes along and says "No, it's because YOU SO STUPID YOU DO IT WRONG!"


Well it is pretty stupid to expect that the operating system includes all drivers and codecs for all media formats regardless of the fact that the hardware that it is installed on may or may not ever include a reader for those formats.

It is pretty intelligent to allow the hardware manufacturers to include the necessary codecs/drivers for the devices that they are selling.
 
2013-01-14 02:55:01 PM

jst3p: ProfessorOhki: jst3p: likefunbutnot: and the Xbox is certainly the dominant gaming platform now

Huh? Dominant?

[martinhingley.files.wordpress.com image 468x349]

I find this one interesting.
[martinhingley.files.wordpress.com image 468x349]

That one tells me that since 2006 Nintendo has sold more consoles than anyone, by a long shot.


Also, there's that whole issue where the Nintendo consoles usually cost ~1/2 of what the Sony/MS offerings do. Comparing their market shares in terms of $ doesn't seem full picture. A market with 99 $10k cars and a $1m car isn't being dominated by the expensive car. When you remember that the profit in gaming comes from software sales, you don't care if the console turns a profit of $0 if it gets you into every living room.
 
2013-01-14 03:03:49 PM

jst3p: sedric: jst3p: Fark Me Runnin: gbob23: Wouldn't it be quicker to make a list of what they did right?

DOS
Windows 95
Windows XP
Office

Even these will be debated by folks.

Danger of getting fat and lazy, folks. Are you paying attention Google?

I dunno, I kinda thought Age of Empires II was pretty darn good. And Windows 7.

In the late 90's they made a damn good mouse too.

aOe the entire series was good.. I still play age of mythology
also arguably dotnet was a success as was sqlserver

/i have yet to buy a M$oft OS. I'm sticking with xp til they pry it from my cold dead pc

Didn't they just buy the small company that was almost done creating the original AoE? Too lazy to google but thats how my memory recalls it.


you are correct sir

Ensemble Studios was involved at one point.. from wiki

Ensemble Studios was a video game developer initially established in 1995 as an independent company by Tony Goodman, Rick Goodman and John Boog-Scott, but was acquired by Microsoft in 2001 and operated as an internal studio until 2009, when it was officially disbanded.[1] Ensemble developed many real-time strategy games, including the Age of Empires game series, Age of Mythology, and Halo Wars. In addition to game development, Ensemble Studios also made the Genie Game Engine used in Age of Empires, Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings, and Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds.

i think they sensed the writing on the wall that pc game sales were not going to expand and that the xbox was their moneymaker

too bad.
 
2013-01-14 03:06:18 PM

Egoy3k: pkellmey: They don't have the best track record with using the other companies hardware either. A perfect example is MS not implementing Blu Ray drivers/codecs right out of the box because it would increase the cost by $2 per Windows license. Laptop and drive manufacturers either provide it for their products or people have to go to third party products like VLC which provides it for free.

Why in the hell would an operating system have the driver/codecs for playing blue-rays included when the goddamned blu-ray drive manufacturer provides them with the drive?


None of my Blu-Ray drives came with codecs. I had to buy third-party software to play Blu-Ray movies.
 
2013-01-14 03:08:39 PM

Ed Grubermann: Egoy3k: pkellmey: They don't have the best track record with using the other companies hardware either. A perfect example is MS not implementing Blu Ray drivers/codecs right out of the box because it would increase the cost by $2 per Windows license. Laptop and drive manufacturers either provide it for their products or people have to go to third party products like VLC which provides it for free.

Why in the hell would an operating system have the driver/codecs for playing blue-rays included when the goddamned blu-ray drive manufacturer provides them with the drive?

None of my Blu-Ray drives came with codecs. I had to buy third-party software to play Blu-Ray movies.


Neither did mine, which is why I use VLC (free) to play them and MakeMKV (Free) to rip them on to my hard drive.
 
2013-01-14 03:10:53 PM

adenosine: So many Windows 8 hate threads...

I haven't used it yet, but I bought a copy of Windows 8 for my new computer. Why? Better licensing. It was $100 for both Windows 7 OEM and Windows 8 OEM, but Windows 8 you can actually upgrade the motherboard without invalidating your license.


When installing an OEM copy of Windows 7 on a new motherboard, you just need to call MS and re-validate to release the key. Takes 10 minutes. I know this cause I've done it to two different systems.

Plus, you're not supposed to use Windows 7 OEM to build your own computer

LOLWUT? That's EXACTLY was OEM is for, new computers and single hardware installation.

I have Windows 8 on my HTPC, it's not bad. Metro is unnecessary garbage, but I just use classic start menu. I agree with everyone's complaints regarding the interface, completely unnecessary change done solely to push MS mobile. Since I'm using Win8 on my HTPC, where I'm usually rocking VLC or the Netflix app, it doesn't bother me too much. But if I had to actually do something productive with it, I'm pretty sure I would of fired this damn thing through a wall.

/It is much faster on bootup, sleep, and hibernation though, love that.
 
2013-01-14 03:15:18 PM

dletter: styckx: Microsoft misstep No. 13: DOS 4.0
Microsoft misstep No. 12: The evil cuties Bob, Clippy, and Rover
Microsoft misstep No. 11: Zune, Kin, Courier, Windows Mobile, and missing the consumer mobile boat
Microsoft misstep No. 10: Bad Windows: Do they run in cycles?
Microsoft misstep No. 9: Windows Ultimate
Microsoft misstep No. 8: Windows Genuine Advantage
Microsoft misstep No. 7. Branding
Microsoft misstep No. 6. Windows Live
Microsoft misstep No. 5: Windows 8
Microsoft misstep No. 4: Windows 8 branding
Microsoft misstep No. 3: Missed opportunities in the cloud
Microsoft misstep No. 2: Management musical chairs
Microsoft misstep No. 1: Internet Explorer 6

Not a bad list, but, way out of order as far as how bad it is for Microsoft.

#11 should clearly be #1.... because they had the desktop platform market basically locked in in the late 90s & early 2000's, even more than today... they could have gotten out in front of Apple in the mobile device space and had products that really cleanly worked well and synced well with their OS.  Instead they fumbled around with it and with the music space, neither of which I think they'll be able to really get above #3 on ahead of Apple & Google/Android now.


It's never been in their nature to lead, which is the takeaway lesson from all this.
 
2013-01-14 03:18:52 PM

styckx: I think Microsofts biggest misstep was Windows ME. And not because of the typical because it's fun to make fun of Windows Me but because Windows 2000 was already farking out an 3000% superior to it. I have no idea to this day why Microsoft pushed yet another FAT32 OS to the moon over a superior NTFS based product that was already on the market and largely never marketed. The NT file system was 100% ready for prime time in Windows 2000 and MS just dropped the ball completely. Yet they market the popular opposite. An unstable bluescreen generating shiatstick.


At the time it was thought that the typical "consumer home PC" being sold at retail stores was nowhere near powerful enough to run Windows 2000 quickly enough to satisfy end users. Hence the Windows 2000 Professional but no Windows 2000 Home version. That was Windows Millennium Edition, which was essentially the last of the DOS-based Windows with as much Windows 2000 goodies bolted on, like System Restore. It was a rushed disaster. The irony is just a few years later they would shove Vista out on those home machines that couldn't run it quickly enough, the very thing they tried to avoid with Windows Me.
 
2013-01-14 03:41:37 PM
I'll use my Windows 7 machine until it dies. Hopefully it has at least 2 good useful years left.
After that, I may switch entirely over to Mac.
Holding out hope that MS figures out tablets and full computers should have different interfaces.

/Win 8 hater.
//Yes, I have given it a chance.
///Old enough to know when to walk away from a bad relationship.
 
2013-01-14 03:44:49 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: I'll use my Windows 7 machine until it dies. Hopefully it has at least 2 good useful years left.
After that, I may switch entirely over to Mac.
Holding out hope that MS figures out tablets and full computers should have different interfaces.

/Win 8 hater.
//Yes, I have given it a chance.
///Old enough to know when to walk away from a bad relationship.


Depending on your needs, Ubuntu is not bad. But I work in unix administration so I have an easier time managing it.
 
2013-01-14 03:49:18 PM

Handsome B. Wonderful: Hertzfeld: The fact that you can end up with Skype (Modern UI) and Skype for Desktop installed on the same PC (and you need skype for desktop currently if you want to send files and various other things) and if someone calls you both versions start ringing, and whichever one you answer, the other continues ringing while you are on the call unless you switch and manually turn it off.

Are you freaking serious?
Wow that's awful. I had no idea.

Who the hell is dumb enough to have both the Skype app and the desktop version of Skype running at the same time?


Anyone who loses their desktop shortcut to Internet Explorer and exclaims, "I can't find my E!"
 
2013-01-14 04:00:45 PM
This list fails without Bing. Bad name + bad marketing + mediocre product = millions lost for MS.
 
2013-01-14 04:05:45 PM

DesertCoyote: This list fails without Bing. Bad name + bad marketing + mediocre product = millions lost for MS.


Bings image search has worked well for me. Especially after Google f*cked up their image search.
 
2013-01-14 04:07:47 PM

LesserEvil: The problem with Metro is it removes the explicit nature of the Windows GUI in favor of a ton of keyboard commands and gestures. It's a step backward removing visual cues on a desktop interface, too.


What. I don't use keyboard commands and never have with any OS. Funny thing is non of my cousins who come over on weekends notice I have Widows 8 unless I'm doing something in the metro UI
 
2013-01-14 04:10:50 PM

theurge14: At the time it was thought that the typical "consumer home PC" being sold at retail stores was nowhere near powerful enough to run Windows 2000 quickly enough to satisfy end users. Hence the Windows 2000 Professional but no Windows 2000 Home version.


Yes and no.  Windows 2000 runs reasonably well with Pentium class processors, and could even work with some 486 and 5x86 processors (the latter were "unsupported").  The biggest performance killer was [lack of] memory.  The box said that 32MB was the minimum, but really, it should have been 48MB.  You needed at least 64MB to be well past any memory constraints.  But a lot of bargain PCs at the beginning of 2000 only had 32MB.

It wasn't that much more to throw in another 32MB module, even in 2000, but it was enough to peeve the lowest-end system builders.  Microsoft should have just told them to pound sand, but they gave in.
 
2013-01-14 04:11:58 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: DesertCoyote: This list fails without Bing. Bad name + bad marketing + mediocre product = millions lost for MS.

Bings image search has worked well for me. Especially after Google f*cked up their image search.


Google has exact image search back so you can search by any WxH you want. It took months but they finally put the best feature of their image search back.
 
2013-01-14 04:18:14 PM

Lsherm: I upgraded to 8 from 7 two weeks ago, and I'm doing a clean install of 8 right now. Here's my overriding suggestion: DON'T DO AN UPGRADE. It ran like dogshiat. My boot time went from just over a minute to four, it wouldn't shut down properly, and after two weeks of trying to figure out which drivers were working but clearly weren't made for Windows 8, I just started over. I have plenty of backups, so reinstallation of needed software isn't an issue.


Windows 8 finds drivers not even meant for PC's e.g Samsung's WIS12ABGNX
/Yeah that's for their HDTV's and Blurayplayers
 
2013-01-14 04:22:09 PM

doczoidberg: I haven't heard of a single person who got Windows 8 and actually like the Metro tiles thing.

The first second I saw Windows 8 in action, I was asking how to disable those damn tiles and get to a normal looking desktop.

Fortunately, it can be done. However, I fear for future Windows releases in which using the tiles will be mandatory.


I love it on my Lumia.
 
2013-01-14 04:23:58 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: Lsherm: I upgraded to 8 from 7 two weeks ago, and I'm doing a clean install of 8 right now. Here's my overriding suggestion: DON'T DO AN UPGRADE. It ran like dogshiat. My boot time went from just over a minute to four, it wouldn't shut down properly, and after two weeks of trying to figure out which drivers were working but clearly weren't made for Windows 8, I just started over. I have plenty of backups, so reinstallation of needed software isn't an issue.

Windows 8 finds drivers not even meant for PC's e.g Samsung's WIS12ABGNX
/Yeah that's for their HDTV's and Blurayplayers


Is that how I got a Nokia telephone driver on my PC and I don't own anything by Nokia?
 
2013-01-14 04:27:33 PM

styckx: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: DesertCoyote: This list fails without Bing. Bad name + bad marketing + mediocre product = millions lost for MS.

Bings image search has worked well for me. Especially after Google f*cked up their image search.

Google has exact image search back so you can search by any WxH you want. It took months but they finally put the best feature of their image search back.


They changed it back? No one called and told me. The bastards.
 
2013-01-14 04:35:00 PM

styckx: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: DesertCoyote: This list fails without Bing. Bad name + bad marketing + mediocre product = millions lost for MS.

Bings image search has worked well for me. Especially after Google f*cked up their image search.

Google has exact image search back so you can search by any WxH you want. It took months but they finally put the best feature of their image search back.


Nope, it still sucks.

Go to Bing Images, disable safe search, and search for 'tits'
Now go to Google Images (safe search is off by default), and search for 'tits'.

Yeah, the Google sucks.
 
2013-01-14 04:39:09 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: styckx: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: DesertCoyote: This list fails without Bing. Bad name + bad marketing + mediocre product = millions lost for MS.

Bings image search has worked well for me. Especially after Google f*cked up their image search.

Google has exact image search back so you can search by any WxH you want. It took months but they finally put the best feature of their image search back.

Nope, it still sucks.

Go to Bing Images, disable safe search, and search for 'tits'
Now go to Google Images (safe search is off by default), and search for 'tits'.

Yeah, the Google sucks.


Just add `porn' to it and you're good. ie: "Tits porn"
 
2013-01-14 04:40:34 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: Lsherm: I upgraded to 8 from 7 two weeks ago, and I'm doing a clean install of 8 right now. Here's my overriding suggestion: DON'T DO AN UPGRADE. It ran like dogshiat. My boot time went from just over a minute to four, it wouldn't shut down properly, and after two weeks of trying to figure out which drivers were working but clearly weren't made for Windows 8, I just started over. I have plenty of backups, so reinstallation of needed software isn't an issue.

Windows 8 finds drivers not even meant for PC's e.g Samsung's WIS12ABGNX
/Yeah that's for their HDTV's and Blurayplayers


Mine ended up being an intel raid controller driver.  I have an Alienware Area 51 ALX desktop and the intel raid utility they use requires a driver installation that can't be upgraded AFTER you move to Windows 8.  So if you do an in-place upgrade it gets stuck with the 7 version of the driver, which is apparently shiat if it's running on 8.

On the plus side, the clean installation really is farking fast.  On the negative side, I'm moving back 450 GB of data from backup, and that's taking forever.
 
2013-01-14 04:41:35 PM

styckx: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: styckx: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: DesertCoyote: This list fails without Bing. Bad name + bad marketing + mediocre product = millions lost for MS.

Bings image search has worked well for me. Especially after Google f*cked up their image search.

Google has exact image search back so you can search by any WxH you want. It took months but they finally put the best feature of their image search back.

Nope, it still sucks.

Go to Bing Images, disable safe search, and search for 'tits'
Now go to Google Images (safe search is off by default), and search for 'tits'.

Yeah, the Google sucks.

Just add `porn' to it and you're good. ie: "Tits porn"


That's an extra word I'd have to add. When I want instant tits, I don't have time to type in 4 more letters.
 
2013-01-14 04:50:02 PM

styckx: drjekel_mrhyde: Lsherm: I upgraded to 8 from 7 two weeks ago, and I'm doing a clean install of 8 right now. Here's my overriding suggestion: DON'T DO AN UPGRADE. It ran like dogshiat. My boot time went from just over a minute to four, it wouldn't shut down properly, and after two weeks of trying to figure out which drivers were working but clearly weren't made for Windows 8, I just started over. I have plenty of backups, so reinstallation of needed software isn't an issue.

Windows 8 finds drivers not even meant for PC's e.g Samsung's WIS12ABGNX
/Yeah that's for their HDTV's and Blurayplayers

Is that how I got a Nokia telephone driver on my PC and I don't own anything by Nokia?


er on my PC and I don't own anything by Nokia?
I'm not saying anything bad. I plugged the thing into my computer and it found it WTF , then I plugged it into my 7 box and even with the find driver online it could not find it
 
2013-01-14 05:14:29 PM
"Windows Mistake Edition (officially called "Me" for no discernible reason)"

It stood for "Millenium Edition".
 
2013-01-14 05:16:26 PM

wallywam1: "Windows Mistake Edition (officially called "Me" for no discernible reason)"

It stood for "Millennium Edition".


FTFM
 
2013-01-14 05:21:15 PM

DesertCoyote: This list fails without Bing. Bad name + bad marketing + mediocre product = millions lost for MS.


Bing isn't that bad of a name. It's certainly better than "Microsoft Windows Live MSN Hotmail Search Pro Edition" or whatever the fark it was called previously.
 
2013-01-14 05:21:26 PM

wallywam1: "Windows Mistake Edition (officially called "Me" for no discernible reason)"

It stood for "Millenium Edition".


And was called Winmill. I never heard anyone call it "mistake edition" although we all agreed it was a total piece of shiat.
Take heart, Windows 9 will be awesome.
 
2013-01-14 05:32:32 PM

YodaBlues: When installing an OEM copy of Windows 7 on a new motherboard, you just need to call MS and re-validate to release the key. Takes 10 minutes. I know this cause I've done it to two different systems.

Plus, you're not supposed to use Windows 7 OEM to build your own computer

LOLWUT? That's EXACTLY was OEM is for, new computers and single hardware installation.


Just because you can do it, doesn't mean it doesn't go against the license.

from http://www.microsoft.com/Oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/licensing_ faq.aspx#fbid=cCAhFHekXZo

Q. Can a PC with an OEM Windows operating system have its motherboard upgraded and keep the same license? What if it was replaced because it was defective?
A. Generally, an end user can upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on a computer-except the motherboard-and still retain the license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created. Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred to the new computer, and the license of new operating system software is required.

and

Q. Can I use the Personal Use License for Windows 7 software?
A. No. The Personal Use License is for Windows 8 and Windows 8 Pro software only. If you are building a PC for your personal use with Windows 7 software, you still need to purchase the full packaged retail version.
 
2013-01-14 05:38:30 PM

MrEricSir: DesertCoyote: This list fails without Bing. Bad name + bad marketing + mediocre product = millions lost for MS.

Bing isn't that bad of a name. It's certainly better than "Microsoft Windows Live MSN Hotmail Search Pro Edition" or whatever the fark it was called previously.


I thought that MSN Search Pro Edition was pretty good. I really didn't care for Microsoft Windows Live MSN Search 2007 Home Edition, though. That was a pile of crap.
 
2013-01-14 05:42:06 PM

adenosine: YodaBlues: When installing an OEM copy of Windows 7 on a new motherboard, you just need to call MS and re-validate to release the key. Takes 10 minutes. I know this cause I've done it to two different systems.

Plus, you're not supposed to use Windows 7 OEM to build your own computer

LOLWUT? That's EXACTLY was OEM is for, new computers and single hardware installation.

Just because you can do it, doesn't mean it doesn't go against the license.

from http://www.microsoft.com/Oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/licensing_ faq.aspx#fbid=cCAhFHekXZo

Q. Can a PC with an OEM Windows operating system have its motherboard upgraded and keep the same license? What if it was replaced because it was defective?
A. Generally, an end user can upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on a computer-except the motherboard-and still retain the license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created. Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred to the new computer, and the license of new operating system software is required.

and

Q. Can I use the Personal Use License for Windows 7 software?
A. No. The Personal Use License is for Windows 8 and Windows 8 Pro software only. If you are building a PC for your personal use with Windows 7 software, you still need to purchase the full packaged retail version.


Yes, I am well versed in the legalese, I'm telling you Microsoft doesn't care. You don't even talk to human, it's an automated system: you call up, enter your key and the key is released and ready to be tied to a new mobo.  Know why they don't care? Cause they have no way of verifying the reason you are installing on a new motherboard, like for instance if the model it was previously registered to is no longer manufactured.  I'm telling you you don't have to spend $200 and you're complaining cause the "LICENSE SAYS NO!!!", even though in reality, the license holder doesn't give a shiat.
 
2013-01-14 05:56:12 PM

YodaBlues: Yes, I am well versed in the legalese, I'm telling you Microsoft doesn't care. You don't even talk to human, it's an automated system: you call up, enter your key and the key is released and ready to be tied to a new mobo.  Know why they don't care? Cause they have no way of verifying the reason you are installing on a new motherboard, like for instance if the model it was previously registered to is no longer manufactured.  I'm telling you you don't have to spend $200 and you're complaining cause the "LICENSE SAYS NO!!!", even though in reality, the license holder doesn't give a shiat.


So you should violate the license agreement because it's easy to? That doesn't seem like particularly good line of reasoning. Did you think it was OK to buy one license of Windows and install it on multiple machines when it only required a serial number? If I can stay within the license agreement with a $99 copy of Windows 8, that to me is the much better path. Perhaps I'm the only one who cares about the license agreement.
 
2013-01-14 05:57:52 PM

adenosine: Perhaps I'm the only one who cares about the license agreement.


*Bing bing bing*
 
2013-01-14 05:58:46 PM

adenosine: YodaBlues: Yes, I am well versed in the legalese, I'm telling you Microsoft doesn't care. You don't even talk to human, it's an automated system: you call up, enter your key and the key is released and ready to be tied to a new mobo.  Know why they don't care? Cause they have no way of verifying the reason you are installing on a new motherboard, like for instance if the model it was previously registered to is no longer manufactured.  I'm telling you you don't have to spend $200 and you're complaining cause the "LICENSE SAYS NO!!!", even though in reality, the license holder doesn't give a shiat.

So you should violate the license agreement because it's easy to? That doesn't seem like particularly good line of reasoning. Did you think it was OK to buy one license of Windows and install it on multiple machines when it only required a serial number? If I can stay within the license agreement with a $99 copy of Windows 8, that to me is the much better path. Perhaps I'm the only one who cares about the license agreement.


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-14 05:58:57 PM

cretinbob: 8 pages? Really? It takes 8 pages to list 13 things that MS didn't do well? Jeez I'm glad the author didn't go with 25 or 100 things.


For what it's worth, I notice and appreciate the Comic Sans MS.
 
2013-01-14 06:08:35 PM

YodaBlues: adenosine: YodaBlues: Yes, I am well versed in the legalese, I'm telling you Microsoft doesn't care. You don't even talk to human, it's an automated system: you call up, enter your key and the key is released and ready to be tied to a new mobo.  Know why they don't care? Cause they have no way of verifying the reason you are installing on a new motherboard, like for instance if the model it was previously registered to is no longer manufactured.  I'm telling you you don't have to spend $200 and you're complaining cause the "LICENSE SAYS NO!!!", even though in reality, the license holder doesn't give a shiat.

So you should violate the license agreement because it's easy to? That doesn't seem like particularly good line of reasoning. Did you think it was OK to buy one license of Windows and install it on multiple machines when it only required a serial number? If I can stay within the license agreement with a $99 copy of Windows 8, that to me is the much better path. Perhaps I'm the only one who cares about the license agreement.

[yoda blues looking like a smug dick.jpg]


You know all those candy bars near the checkout counter at Wal Mart? It turns out that like 99.99% of the time you can just put one of those candy bars in your pocket and walk out, and nobody will ever even notice. In your world, I suppose that means that Wal Mart gives away free candy bars.
 
2013-01-14 06:09:11 PM

Hertzfeld: Handsome B. Wonderful: Hertzfeld: The fact that you can end up with Skype (Modern UI) and Skype for Desktop installed on the same PC (and you need skype for desktop currently if you want to send files and various other things) and if someone calls you both versions start ringing, and whichever one you answer, the other continues ringing while you are on the call unless you switch and manually turn it off.

Are you freaking serious?
Wow that's awful. I had no idea.

Who the hell is dumb enough to have both the Skype app and the desktop version of Skype running at the same time?

Anyone who loses their desktop shortcut to Internet Explorer and exclaims, "I can't find my E!"


Well, sure. But I have my phone sitting right next to my desktop right now. If someone tries to call me on Skype, I suppose I'd have the option to answer on either my desktop or my phone. Skype should deal with that appropriately since I'm only likely to answer one. Having two versions installed on your desktop should be no different. That may be Microsoft's fault. but it would be the Skype team, not the Windows team that should fix it.
 
2013-01-14 06:12:46 PM

The Larch: YodaBlues: adenosine: YodaBlues: Yes, I am well versed in the legalese, I'm telling you Microsoft doesn't care. You don't even talk to human, it's an automated system: you call up, enter your key and the key is released and ready to be tied to a new mobo.  Know why they don't care? Cause they have no way of verifying the reason you are installing on a new motherboard, like for instance if the model it was previously registered to is no longer manufactured.  I'm telling you you don't have to spend $200 and you're complaining cause the "LICENSE SAYS NO!!!", even though in reality, the license holder doesn't give a shiat.

So you should violate the license agreement because it's easy to? That doesn't seem like particularly good line of reasoning. Did you think it was OK to buy one license of Windows and install it on multiple machines when it only required a serial number? If I can stay within the license agreement with a $99 copy of Windows 8, that to me is the much better path. Perhaps I'm the only one who cares about the license agreement.

[yoda blues looking like a smug dick.jpg]

You know all those candy bars near the checkout counter at Wal Mart? It turns out that like 99.99% of the time you can just put one of those candy bars in your pocket and walk out, and nobody will ever even notice. In your world, I suppose that means that Wal Mart gives away free candy bars.


Oooh, ooh, is this the copyright infringement v. theft false equivalency thread? Hold that thought, I'm going to go make some popcorn.
 
2013-01-14 06:14:19 PM

adenosine: YodaBlues: Yes, I am well versed in the legalese, I'm telling you Microsoft doesn't care. You don't even talk to human, it's an automated system: you call up, enter your key and the key is released and ready to be tied to a new mobo.  Know why they don't care? Cause they have no way of verifying the reason you are installing on a new motherboard, like for instance if the model it was previously registered to is no longer manufactured.  I'm telling you you don't have to spend $200 and you're complaining cause the "LICENSE SAYS NO!!!", even though in reality, the license holder doesn't give a shiat.

So you should violate the license agreement because it's easy to? That doesn't seem like particularly good line of reasoning. Did you think it was OK to buy one license of Windows and install it on multiple machines when it only required a serial number? If I can stay within the license agreement with a $99 copy of Windows 8, that to me is the much better path. Perhaps I'm the only one who cares about the license agreement.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-14 06:14:57 PM

ProfessorOhki: Oooh, ooh, is this the copyright infringement v. theft false equivalency thread? Hold that thought, I'm going to go make some popcorn.


No, it's the thread where YodaBlues explicitly claimed that license infringement was OK, because he hasn't been caught yet.
 
2013-01-14 06:16:30 PM

The Larch: YodaBlues: adenosine: YodaBlues: Yes, I am well versed in the legalese, I'm telling you Microsoft doesn't care. You don't even talk to human, it's an automated system: you call up, enter your key and the key is released and ready to be tied to a new mobo.  Know why they don't care? Cause they have no way of verifying the reason you are installing on a new motherboard, like for instance if the model it was previously registered to is no longer manufactured.  I'm telling you you don't have to spend $200 and you're complaining cause the "LICENSE SAYS NO!!!", even though in reality, the license holder doesn't give a shiat.

So you should violate the license agreement because it's easy to? That doesn't seem like particularly good line of reasoning. Did you think it was OK to buy one license of Windows and install it on multiple machines when it only required a serial number? If I can stay within the license agreement with a $99 copy of Windows 8, that to me is the much better path. Perhaps I'm the only one who cares about the license agreement.

[yoda blues looking like a smug dick.jpg]

You know all those candy bars near the checkout counter at Wal Mart? It turns out that like 99.99% of the time you can just put one of those candy bars in your pocket and walk out, and nobody will ever even notice. In your world, I suppose that means that Wal Mart gives away free candy bars.


0-media-cdn.foolz.us

You don't understand how an analogy works. See, I DO buy the candy bar, I just don't let the candy company tell me how or when or where I can enjoy it.

/adenosine still not going to sleep with you.
 
2013-01-14 06:16:42 PM

The Larch: ProfessorOhki: Oooh, ooh, is this the copyright infringement v. theft false equivalency thread? Hold that thought, I'm going to go make some popcorn.

No, it's the thread where YodaBlues explicitly claimed that license infringement was OK, because he hasn't been caught yet.


Hey wait up, it's not ready yet.
 
2013-01-14 06:17:05 PM

seanpg71: Hertzfeld: Handsome B. Wonderful: Hertzfeld: The fact that you can end up with Skype (Modern UI) and Skype for Desktop installed on the same PC (and you need skype for desktop currently if you want to send files and various other things) and if someone calls you both versions start ringing, and whichever one you answer, the other continues ringing while you are on the call unless you switch and manually turn it off.

Are you freaking serious?
Wow that's awful. I had no idea.

Who the hell is dumb enough to have both the Skype app and the desktop version of Skype running at the same time?

Anyone who loses their desktop shortcut to Internet Explorer and exclaims, "I can't find my E!"

Well, sure. But I have my phone sitting right next to my desktop right now. If someone tries to call me on Skype, I suppose I'd have the option to answer on either my desktop or my phone. Skype should deal with that appropriately since I'm only likely to answer one. Having two versions installed on your desktop should be no different. That may be Microsoft's fault. but it would be the Skype team, not the Windows team that should fix it.


No, No, No. You are wrong. According to Handsome B. Wonderful, if you answer your mobile and your computer keeps ringing, that's because you're a stupid dumbass who doesn't know how to workaround the limitations of a shiatty program like skype.
 
2013-01-14 06:17:27 PM

ProfessorOhki: The Larch: ProfessorOhki: Oooh, ooh, is this the copyright infringement v. theft false equivalency thread? Hold that thought, I'm going to go make some popcorn.

No, it's the thread where YodaBlues explicitly claimed that license infringement was OK, because he hasn't been caught yet.

Hey wait up, it's not ready yet.


Come on man, get the jiffy pop!
 
2013-01-14 06:18:35 PM

cretinbob: wallywam1: "Windows Mistake Edition (officially called "Me" for no discernible reason)"

It stood for "Millenium Edition".

And was called Winmill. I never heard anyone call it "mistake edition" although we all agreed it was a total piece of shiat.
Take heart, Windows 9 will be awesome.


"Mistake Edition" was pretty common in the circles I ran in. As well as referring to "Windows CE" as "Wince".

We were cheeky monkeys.
 
2013-01-14 06:26:24 PM

YodaBlues: You don't understand how an analogy works. See, I DO buy the candy bar, I just don't let the candy company tell me how or when or where I can enjoy it.


The United States Constitution explicitly allows the company to limit how you make copies of a program.

Let's use a car analogy, which I always like.

Suppose that Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin were two guys who were really into car customization. Further, imagine that TommyJ had himself one of those cool customizing shops that was always putting out fresh rides that were really dope (keep in mind this is a long time ago, so the slang was pretty stupid sounding to us). What do you think would have happened if BFDog kept copying all of TommyJ's sick colors? TommyJ would have said, "Hey you fat old BFDog, stop yoinking my sick colors! Get your own pigments!" Then BFDog would have said, "Verily, I say unto you that your legal recourse is very small. Without some item in the Constitution to prevent me from copying your paint designs, I shall verily continue." And TommyJ says "It is now, cuz I the pimp of the constitution, and you're the ho."

And that's why if one car customizing shop invents a really cool new color scheme for a car, other car customizing shops aren't just free to copy it without permission.
 
2013-01-14 06:27:27 PM

bighairyguy: I got a new laptop Saturday and I've been doing battle with Windows 8 since then.  The Tiles screen is perfect for ADD people.


Hit PC Magazine's web site for some "intro to Windows 8" articles and they'll really help you out.

I'm testing Windows 8 for my company and after learning a few things about it I kinda like it. Metro isn't a bad interface. Better suited to tablets but still, how many apps do you frequently run? I ditched almost all of the tiles and only have tiles for things i use at least once a week. Things like Office dump a shiat ton of tiles on the screen when you install them but it doesn't take more than a few minutes to clean it up. I also tend to turn off all of the 'ooh ahh' crap I can because I'd rather have performance than visual 'ooh, ahh'

I really don't see a big difference between 7 and 8.
 
2013-01-14 06:28:58 PM

wildcardjack: Just remember this gem from IBM

[imgs.xkcd.com image 550x472]


You mean the great mouse that is still on 99% of all laptops currently being made? It's way better than the stupid mousepad.
 
2013-01-14 06:34:10 PM
I can't believe some asshole is on Fark enforcing license agreement policies.. Holy fark either he gets a 10/10 for trolling or he has less of a life than I do.
 
2013-01-14 06:45:13 PM
Oh fer cryin out loud. I'm so tired of the MS and Win8 hate.

My wife got a Surface (RT) in October and we liked it so much we upgraded all of our obviously non-touch machines. I have no complaints or problems dealing with Win8 on my desktop. The navigation is simple and easy. It took me a whopping 20 minutes to figure it out and get used to it. I like the infamous Start screen. It makes it very easy to group my apps according to how I work. I've been developing software and building my own machines since 1990 and I have yet to find anything about Win8 that annoys me.

Whenever I see someone bash or complain about Win8 the only conclusions I can come to is that they haven't used it for more than 15 minutes or they are predisposed to hate all things Microsoft.

My biggest complaint about MS has always been that their marketing blows. If they made a 30-45 second commercial to show how to use Win8 on a non-touch machine I bet about 80% of the complaining would stop.
 
2013-01-14 06:53:14 PM

The Larch: YodaBlues: You don't understand how an analogy works. See, I DO buy the candy bar, I just don't let the candy company tell me how or when or where I can enjoy it.

The United States Constitution explicitly allows the company to limit how you make copies of a program.

Let's use a car analogy, which I always like.

Suppose that Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin were two guys who were really into car customization. Further, imagine that TommyJ had himself one of those cool customizing shops that was always putting out fresh rides that were really dope (keep in mind this is a long time ago, so the slang was pretty stupid sounding to us). What do you think would have happened if BFDog kept copying all of TommyJ's sick colors? TommyJ would have said, "Hey you fat old BFDog, stop yoinking my sick colors! Get your own pigments!" Then BFDog would have said, "Verily, I say unto you that your legal recourse is very small. Without some item in the Constitution to prevent me from copying your paint designs, I shall verily continue." And TommyJ says "It is now, cuz I the pimp of the constitution, and you're the ho."

And that's why if one car customizing shop invents a really cool new color scheme for a car, other car customizing shops aren't just free to copy it without permission.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/analogy

I'd say you should probably choose an analogy that is actually analogous the situation I am describing.  Not stealing, not copying, I already bought it.  And I'm using on one computer only. I have 3 separate legal OEM copies of Windows for ALL 3 of my PC's. I don't share keys and I don't pirate. When I upgrade my motherboard, I use the same key that was previously used for that particular system. I'm not buying another one because MS has arbitrarily decided that is what constitutes a "PC".

The car analogy that is applicable is if I bought a new car and GM told me if I wanted to swap out the transmission, I would have to buy a whole new  engine. Even though the current engine is fine and perfectly compatible, GM has decreed to me how to use a product I already legally purchased. I'm not going to steal an engine, I'm not copying the engine from one car and putting it in another, I have a perfectly good engine I already bought and I'm going to use it how I see fit.

License agreements are how software companies fleece you. And I say this as a software developer.
 
2013-01-14 07:02:32 PM

Unscratchable_Itch: Oh fer cryin out loud. I'm so tired of the MS and Win8 hate.


In before "how much did M$ pay you to post here?!"

/amen to the marketing comment
 
2013-01-14 07:20:14 PM

Unscratchable_Itch: Oh fer cryin out loud. I'm so tired of the MS and Win8 hate.

My wife got a Surface (RT) in October and we liked it so much we upgraded all of our obviously non-touch machines. I have no complaints or problems dealing with Win8 on my desktop. The navigation is simple and easy. It took me a whopping 20 minutes to figure it out and get used to it. I like the infamous Start screen. It makes it very easy to group my apps according to how I work. I've been developing software and building my own machines since 1990 and I have yet to find anything about Win8 that annoys me.

Whenever I see someone bash or complain about Win8 the only conclusions I can come to is that they haven't used it for more than 15 minutes or they are predisposed to hate all things Microsoft.

My biggest complaint about MS has always been that their marketing blows. If they made a 30-45 second commercial to show how to use Win8 on a non-touch machine I bet about 80% of the complaining would stop.


I'm glad you like it. I think it stinks on toast.
 
2013-01-14 07:54:59 PM

Flying Code Monkey: Unscratchable_Itch: Oh fer cryin out loud. I'm so tired of the MS and Win8 hate.

In before "how much did M$ pay you to post here?!"

/amen to the marketing comment


Yeah, I wish I was on the secret MS payroll. What's the going rate for trolling?
 
2013-01-14 07:58:42 PM

styckx: 8 farking pages..


Where each page jumps around as it draws the components making trying to click on links a dance. Nope.
 
2013-01-14 09:31:11 PM
I don't own anything Microsoft makes except for my many-times-migrated copy of Office 2003 for Mac, so I don't say this as a fanboi. But it's a hell of a company that can make 13 serious missteps and still be pretty farking dominant.
 
2013-01-14 10:35:21 PM

KidneyStone: Better suited to tablets but still, how many apps do you frequently run?


Right now I have Chrome, Skype, Solidworks, Adobe Acrobat (open pdfs that don't work quite right in Chrome), and a simulation program running in a remote desktop window; I can glance down at the taskbar to see all of them and quickly switch between them. I can glance over to see printer and network status. I have ... 17 tabs open in Chrome. Not unusual for browsing, but often I have way more programs running.

So I guess that would be zero "apps". I think there are some of those widget things on the desktop for weather and stocks but I rarely look at them. My use case doesn't seem that unusual when I look at how other people use their machines.

Metro modern whatever you call it would severely constrain my computing lifestyle. I tried IE 10 modern several times over a period of months, and tried to see the bright side. Each time I wanted to kick a hole in the screen after about 20 minutes. It's pure shiat. And I can be reasonably satisfied using an ipad or android tablet, because although it can't do everything I want, it doesn't dick with me every step of the way and do random shiat like put the address bar at the bottom of the screen.
 
2013-01-14 11:08:03 PM

adenosine: I haven't used it yet, but I bought a copy of Windows 8 for my new computer.


Ah, there's your mistake. You actually paid for Windows!

/only partially kidding
 
2013-01-14 11:33:43 PM

styckx: Microsoft misstep No. 13: DOS 4.0
Microsoft misstep No. 12: The evil cuties Bob, Clippy, and Rover
Microsoft misstep No. 11: Zune, Kin, Courier, Windows Mobile, and missing the consumer mobile boat
Microsoft misstep No. 10: Bad Windows: Do they run in cycles?
Microsoft misstep No. 9: Windows Ultimate
Microsoft misstep No. 8: Windows Genuine Advantage
Microsoft misstep No. 7. Branding
Microsoft misstep No. 6. Windows Live
Microsoft misstep No. 5: Windows 8
Microsoft misstep No. 4: Windows 8 branding
Microsoft misstep No. 3: Missed opportunities in the cloud
Microsoft misstep No. 2: Management musical chairs
Microsoft misstep No. 1: Internet Explorer 6


Thank you!
I wasn't going to go through all of those pages just to confirm Windows 8 was on the list.
It sucks big time. I returned the laptop I had purchased that was loaded with it today.
 
2013-01-15 03:00:06 AM

cretinbob: 8 pages? Really? It takes 8 pages to list 13 things that MS didn't do well? Jeez I'm glad the author didn't go with 25 or 100 things.


I see what you did there....
 
2013-01-15 01:22:42 PM

YodaBlues: d say you should probably choose an analogy that is actually analogous the situation I am describing.


OK, here's an analogy.

Andenosine posted the Windows 8 licensing terms

YodaBlues came back and pretended like he was tougher than Samuel L Jackson in Pulp Fiction, and he doesn't care about those stupid license terms, because he's a bad motherfarker, and out in the real world a man can do anything that no other man stops him from doing with physical force. Also, when he calls the automated phone support to activate windows on a second computer they haven't ever actually caught him,

The Larch said that claiming that something is OK because you haven't been not caught makes you sound like a retarded five year old, and you're stupid, and you should feel bad for being so stupid.

YodaBlues comes back a second time to say that he really didn't mean that he could get away with it because he's a baddass who hasn't been caught. What he really meant was FREEEEEEEEEDOOOOMMMMMMM!

The Larch posts what might have been the stupidest car analogy ever posted in the history of the internet, involving Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin running southern california car chop shops, and Thomas Jefferson altering the Constitution of the United States because he felt that Ben Franklin's customization infringed on his own.

YodaBlues still apparently takes this conversation seriously, because he really is a retarded five year old, and he doesn't feel bad for being stupid yet.
 
2013-01-15 02:04:38 PM

The Larch: YodaBlues: d say you should probably choose an analogy that is actually analogous the situation I am describing.

OK, here's an analogy.

Andenosine posted the Windows 8 licensing terms

YodaBlues came back and pretended like he was tougher than Samuel L Jackson in Pulp Fiction, and he doesn't care about those stupid license terms, because he's a bad motherfarker, and out in the real world a man can do anything that no other man stops him from doing with physical force. Also, when he calls the automated phone support to activate windows on a second computer they haven't ever actually caught him,

The Larch said that claiming that something is OK because you haven't been not caught makes you sound like a retarded five year old, and you're stupid, and you should feel bad for being so stupid.

YodaBlues comes back a second time to say that he really didn't mean that he could get away with it because he's a baddass who hasn't been caught. What he really meant was FREEEEEEEEEDOOOOMMMMMMM!

The Larch posts what might have been the stupidest car analogy ever posted in the history of the internet, involving Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin running southern california car chop shops, and Thomas Jefferson altering the Constitution of the United States because he felt that Ben Franklin's customization infringed on his own.

YodaBlues still apparently takes this conversation seriously, because he really is a retarded five year old, and he doesn't feel bad for being stupid yet.



25.media.tumblr.com
Wow, that's the first time I've ever caused someone to have a nervous breakdown. Awesome.
 
2013-01-15 02:11:20 PM

The Larch: YodaBlues: d say you should probably choose an analogy that is actually analogous the situation I am describing.

OK, here's an analogy....BLAH BLAH BLAH



No it's not, that's a sandy vagina. You should get it checked out.

You're the one shiatting your pants with rage and yet, somehow I'M taking the conversation too seriously.
 
2013-01-15 03:40:34 PM

YodaBlues: You're the one shiatting your pants with rage and yet, somehow I'M taking the conversation too seriously.


LOL. Yeah, the guy posting about Thomas Jefferson's southern california car customizing chop shop is the rage guy.
 
2013-01-15 03:54:20 PM

The Larch: YodaBlues: d say you should probably choose an analogy that is actually analogous the situation I am describing.

OK, here's an analogy.

Andenosine posted the Windows 8 licensing terms

YodaBlues came back and pretended like he was tougher than Samuel L Jackson in Pulp Fiction, and he doesn't care about those stupid license terms, because he's a bad motherfarker, and out in the real world a man can do anything that no other man stops him from doing with physical force. Also, when he calls the automated phone support to activate windows on a second computer they haven't ever actually caught him,

The Larch said that claiming that something is OK because you haven't been not caught makes you sound like a retarded five year old, and you're stupid, and you should feel bad for being so stupid.

YodaBlues comes back a second time to say that he really didn't mean that he could get away with it because he's a baddass who hasn't been caught. What he really meant was FREEEEEEEEEDOOOOMMMMMMM!

The Larch posts what might have been the stupidest car analogy ever posted in the history of the internet, involving Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin running southern california car chop shops, and Thomas Jefferson altering the Constitution of the United States because he felt that Ben Franklin's customization infringed on his own.

YodaBlues still apparently takes this conversation seriously, because he really is a retarded five year old, and he doesn't feel bad for being stupid yet.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-15 03:55:18 PM
Looks like some Farkers just have to have the last word.

Seriously, who gets their panties in a bunch over a EULA? Certainly not Microsoft. Most EULAs are created by a commitee of lawyers to cover the ass of the company. There is a long history with Microsoft doing a "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" on the conditions they set forth (there is acknowledgment from the highest execs at Microsoft on record, but I've also heard it personally from people in Redmond). That's why they have things like MSDN subscriptions that issue new CD keys every year and absolutely ZERO enforcement.

...but please, keep arguing; after all, you lose if you don't get the last word in before the comment box closes on a Fark thread!
 
2013-01-15 04:36:00 PM
"Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though," Gates told an audience at the University of Washington. "And as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade."
 
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