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(Some Disagreeable Person)   Arguing is the best way to learn, says author who obviously has never visited the Politics tab   (anniemurphypaul.com) divider line 51
    More: Unlikely, political sciences, lectures, digital natives, left brain, graduate students  
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1007 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jan 2013 at 8:25 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



51 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-01-14 07:48:15 AM  
No it isn't.
 
2013-01-14 07:55:38 AM  
img492.imageshack.us

Yes it is.
 
2013-01-14 07:57:05 AM  
This is just contradiction!
 
2013-01-14 07:57:44 AM  

mamoru: This is just contradiction!


Look, I've told you once.
 
2013-01-14 08:03:29 AM  

mamoru: This is just contradiction!


img492.imageshack.us

Look, if I *argue* with you, I must take up a contrary position!
 
2013-01-14 08:08:23 AM  

dittybopper: Look, if I *argue* with you, I must take up a contrary position!


Yes, but that's not just saying "no, it isn't'.
 
2013-01-14 08:16:38 AM  

dittybopper: mamoru: This is just contradiction!

[img492.imageshack.us image 350x233]

Look, if I *argue* with you, I must take up a contrary position!


i.ytimg.com

Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings! Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!!
 
2013-01-14 08:18:51 AM  
I see I'm far too late to share a witty Python reference
 
2013-01-14 08:21:18 AM  

mamoru: dittybopper: Look, if I *argue* with you, I must take up a contrary position!

Yes, but that's not just saying "no, it isn't'.


It can be.
 
2013-01-14 08:26:16 AM  

stratagos: I see I'm far too late to share a witty Python reference


No, you're not.
 
2013-01-14 08:28:37 AM  

Gulper Eel: No, you're not.


My hovercraft is full of eels. Wait...I'm so bad at this.
 
2013-01-14 08:29:39 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Gulper Eel: No, you're not.

My hovercraft is full of eels. Wait...I'm so bad at this.


Please...fondeul...my buttocks?
 
2013-01-14 08:37:57 AM  
Arguing is a great way to learn as long as everyone understands the rules. If I were a prof, the first thing I'd have my students do each day is pull out a list of the 40 or so most common fallacies and put them on their desk.
 
2013-01-14 08:40:17 AM  
This thread may be about a Monty Python skit, but this is what it will become.
 
2013-01-14 08:40:30 AM  
There are very few consequences in the politics tab.
 
2013-01-14 08:40:48 AM  
nee!
 
2013-01-14 08:42:17 AM  
This on-topic discussion is no more! It has ceased to be!
 
2013-01-14 08:42:24 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Gulper Eel: No, you're not.

My hovercraft is full of eels. Wait...I'm so bad at this.


It could grasp it by the husk!
 
2013-01-14 08:44:15 AM  
What about pointed sticks?
 
2013-01-14 08:45:46 AM  

misguided: nee!


It's spelled "Ni", you jerk!
 
2013-01-14 08:46:13 AM  

imontheinternet: What about pointed sticks?


SHADDUP!
 
2013-01-14 08:46:38 AM  

LostGuy: Arguing is a great way to learn as long as everyone understands the rules.


Rule one: NO POOFTERS.
Rule two: no member of the faculty is to maltreat the Abbos in any way at all -- if there's anybody watching.
 
2013-01-14 08:46:39 AM  

JasonOfOrillia: There are very few consequences in the politics tab.


The politics tab is punishment enough on its own.
 
2013-01-14 08:46:40 AM  

PanicMan: misguided: nee!

It's spelled "Ni", you jerk!


No, it isn't.
 
2013-01-14 08:47:22 AM  

imontheinternet: PanicMan: misguided: nee!

It's spelled "Ni", you jerk!

No, it isn't.


Yes it is!
 
2013-01-14 08:49:08 AM  

I'm an Egyptian!: imontheinternet: PanicMan: misguided: nee!

It's spelled "Ni", you jerk!

No, it isn't.

Yes it is!


Oh no it isn't.
 
2013-01-14 08:49:54 AM  

imontheinternet: I'm an Egyptian!: imontheinternet: PanicMan: misguided: nee!

It's spelled "Ni", you jerk!

No, it isn't.

Yes it is!

Oh no it isn't.


I wish you'd all stop bickering and eat me.
 
2013-01-14 08:51:32 AM  

Gulper Eel: imontheinternet: I'm an Egyptian!: imontheinternet: PanicMan: misguided: nee!

It's spelled "Ni", you jerk!

No, it isn't.

Yes it is!

Oh no it isn't.

I wish you'd all stop bickering and eat me.


I'd rather eat Hodges.
 
2013-01-14 08:52:23 AM  

imontheinternet: I'm an Egyptian!: imontheinternet: PanicMan: misguided: nee!

It's spelled "Ni", you jerk!

No, it isn't.

Yes it is!

Oh no it isn't.


I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid.
 
2013-01-14 08:53:29 AM  

stratagos: I see I'm far too late to share a witty Python reference


You'd be the first.
 
2013-01-14 08:53:53 AM  

I'm an Egyptian!: imontheinternet: I'm an Egyptian!: imontheinternet: PanicMan: misguided: nee!

It's spelled "Ni", you jerk!

No, it isn't.

Yes it is!

Oh no it isn't.

I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid.


Oh look, this isn't an argument.
 
2013-01-14 08:57:35 AM  

I'm an Egyptian!: Gulper Eel: imontheinternet: I'm an Egyptian!: imontheinternet: PanicMan: misguided: nee!

It's spelled "Ni", you jerk!

No, it isn't.

Yes it is!

Oh no it isn't.

I wish you'd all stop bickering and eat me.

I'd rather eat Hodges.


Look. I tell you what. Those who want to can eat Johnson. And you, sir, can have my leg. And we make some stock from the Captain, and then we'll have Johnson cold for supper.

/and we'll finish off with the peaches
 
2013-01-14 09:04:05 AM  

imontheinternet: I'm an Egyptian!: imontheinternet: I'm an Egyptian!: imontheinternet: PanicMan: misguided: nee!

It's spelled "Ni", you jerk!

No, it isn't.

Yes it is!

Oh no it isn't.

I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid.

Oh look, this isn't an argument.


Yes it is.

/and by engaging in said argument, you are increasing both the number of neuronal connections and electrochemical responses of the neural network responsible for memorization of that particular skit. While doing so, you are also engaging in both left brain (language capabilities) and right brain functions (images) to further engage and strengthen said neuronal network. This lends some credence to the use of the metaphor of right brain/left brain.
//Actually RTFA. Interesting concept, provided both participants agree on basic ground rules.
 
2013-01-14 09:09:28 AM  
This is more or less why the Socratic method works.

I'd like to see how forced-debate compares to other forms of small-group learning, though - I think making the students active instead of passive is the lions share of the benefit.
 
2013-01-14 09:11:13 AM  

I'm an Egyptian!: imontheinternet: I'm an Egyptian!: imontheinternet: I'm an Egyptian!: imontheinternet: PanicMan: misguided: nee!

It's spelled "Ni", you jerk!

No, it isn't.

Yes it is!

Oh no it isn't.

I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid.

Oh look, this isn't an argument.

Yes it is.

/and by engaging in said argument, you are increasing both the number of neuronal connections and electrochemical responses of the neural network responsible for memorization of that particular skit. While doing so, you are also engaging in both left brain (language capabilities) and right brain functions (images) to further engage and strengthen said neuronal network. This lends some credence to the use of the metaphor of right brain/left brain.
//Actually RTFA. Interesting concept, provided both participants agree on basic ground rules.


The article doesn't say that.  If anything, the assertion that arguing increases learning capabilities further solidifies the left brain/right brain fallacy as pseudoscience.  It's not two separate parts doing different things; it's one coordinated whole that operates much better when it's engaged in more complex tasks.

This thread is getting very silly.
 
2013-01-14 09:33:12 AM  

imontheinternet: I'm an Egyptian!: imontheinternet: I'm an Egyptian!: imontheinternet: I'm an Egyptian!: imontheinternet: PanicMan: misguided: nee!

It's spelled "Ni", you jerk!

No, it isn't.

Yes it is!

Oh no it isn't.

I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid.

Oh look, this isn't an argument.

Yes it is.

/and by engaging in said argument, you are increasing both the number of neuronal connections and electrochemical responses of the neural network responsible for memorization of that particular skit. While doing so, you are also engaging in both left brain (language capabilities) and right brain functions (images) to further engage and strengthen said neuronal network. This lends some credence to the use of the metaphor of right brain/left brain.
//Actually RTFA. Interesting concept, provided both participants agree on basic ground rules.

The article doesn't say that.  If anything, the assertion that arguing increases learning capabilities further solidifies the left brain/right brain fallacy as pseudoscience.  It's not two separate parts doing different things; it's one coordinated whole that operates much better when it's engaged in more complex tasks.


If the brain is one whole, how is there coordination? Coordination implies there are two separate parts acting as a whole. For the instance that I presented, it is strengthening the coordination through the corpus collosum. By looking at the brain engaging as a parallel processor, it assumes that the two separate halves are doing two different things, but are able to communicate and work as a whole. One side specializes in one aspect, the other side another. When the two get together, they produce the end result. I would argue that individuals can rely more on one hemisphere than another. As an example, pick up an average coin. You have heads and tails. We can both agree that there are two separate sides that appear different from each other, but both are part of the same whole. Granted you cannot have one without the other, but there are definite distinctions.

I would say that the initial right brain/left brain argument is an oversimplification, but the solution is not to swing the pendulum to the opposite direction and say there is no hemispheric differentiation whatsoever. That's overly reductionist. I posit there is some merit to the whole concept, provided one takes the approach more subtly.

This thread is getting very silly.

This I can agree with.
 
2013-01-14 09:37:02 AM  

I'm an Egyptian!: If the brain is one whole, how is there coordination? Coordination implies there are two separate parts acting as a whole. For the instance that I presented, it is strengthening the coordination through the corpus collosum. By looking at the brain engaging as a parallel processor, it assumes that the two separate halves are doing two different things, but are able to communicate and work as a whole. One side specializes in one aspect, the other side another. When the two get together, they produce the end result. I would argue that individuals can rely more on one hemisphere than another. As an example, pick up an average coin. You have heads and tails. We can both agree that there are two separate sides that appear different from each other, but both are part of the same whole. Granted you cannot have one without the other, but there are definite distinctions.

I would say that the initial right brain/left brain argument is an oversimplification, but the solution is not to swing the pendulum to the opposite direction and say there is no hemispheric differentiation whatsoever. That's overly reductionist. I posit there is some merit to the whole concept, provided one takes the approach more subtly.


Yes, well, that's the sort of blinkered, philistine pig ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage. You sit there on your loathsome, spotty behinds squeezing blackheads, not caring a tinker's cuss for the struggling artist. You excrement! You whining, hypocritical toadies, with your colour TV sets and your Tony Jacklin golf clubs and your bleeding Masonic secret handshakes! You wouldn't let me join, would you, you blackballing bastards! Well, I wouldn't become a freemason now if you went down on your lousy, stinking knees and begged me!
 
2013-01-14 09:41:44 AM  
I dunno, I've learned quite a bit from the Politics Tab about how to hone your argument, present it in as little space as possible to avoid TL;DR, tighten up any assumptions or fallacies, take down obvious trolls, and completely ruin the day of total dumbasses who think they know politics.
 
2013-01-14 09:44:33 AM  
There isn't any real argument on the Politics tab because it's overrun with trolls and shills.

It would be nice if that could be fixed and true discussion could begin again.
 
2013-01-14 09:44:50 AM  

Gulper Eel: I'm an Egyptian!: If the brain is one whole, how is there coordination? Coordination implies there are two separate parts acting as a whole. For the instance that I presented, it is strengthening the coordination through the corpus collosum. By looking at the brain engaging as a parallel processor, it assumes that the two separate halves are doing two different things, but are able to communicate and work as a whole. One side specializes in one aspect, the other side another. When the two get together, they produce the end result. I would argue that individuals can rely more on one hemisphere than another. As an example, pick up an average coin. You have heads and tails. We can both agree that there are two separate sides that appear different from each other, but both are part of the same whole. Granted you cannot have one without the other, but there are definite distinctions.

I would say that the initial right brain/left brain argument is an oversimplification, but the solution is not to swing the pendulum to the opposite direction and say there is no hemispheric differentiation whatsoever. That's overly reductionist. I posit there is some merit to the whole concept, provided one takes the approach more subtly.

Yes, well, that's the sort of blinkered, philistine pig ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage. You sit there on your loathsome, spotty behinds squeezing blackheads, not caring a tinker's cuss for the struggling artist. You excrement! You whining, hypocritical toadies, with your colour TV sets and your Tony Jacklin golf clubs and your bleeding Masonic secret handshakes! You wouldn't let me join, would you, you blackballing bastards! Well, I wouldn't become a freemason now if you went down on your lousy, stinking knees and begged me!


I'm sorry you feel that way, nice though the abbatoir is.
 
2013-01-14 09:47:23 AM  

Gulper Eel: mamoru: This is just contradiction!

Look, I've told you once.


Better tell em twice just in case
i282.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-14 09:50:38 AM  

Testiclaw: There isn't any real argument on the Politics tab because it's overrun with trolls and shills.

It would be nice if that could be fixed and true discussion could begin again.


They're not going to fix it. Unfortunately.
 
2013-01-14 10:02:58 AM  
Nothing will change. It's cheaper for colleges to hold classes in a lecture hall with 250 students. It's not about the learning. It's about the money.
 
2013-01-14 10:05:27 AM  

PanicMan: Testiclaw: There isn't any real argument on the Politics tab because it's overrun with trolls and shills.

It would be nice if that could be fixed and true discussion could begin again.

They're not going to fix it. Unfortunately.


They have since early on. However, you have to be active yourself
1) Do not feed the trolls
2) Put them either on ignore or highlight
3) Highlight those who normally (albeit sanely) disagree with you.
 
2013-01-14 10:15:48 AM  

Testiclaw: It would be nice if that could be fixed and true discussion could begin again.


I've been here since 2006 and I don't remember a time when the Politics Tab wasn't overrun with trolls and shills.
 
2013-01-14 10:22:11 AM  
You suck!

You suck more!

You suck donkey dicks!

Oh yeah, well you suck pig anuses!

Ok, so I see your point. Aristotle must have been mistaken.
 
2013-01-14 12:01:55 PM  

JackieRabbit: You suck!

You suck more!

You suck donkey dicks!

Oh yeah, well you suck pig anuses!

Ok, so I see your point. Aristotle must have been mistaken.


Obligatory in the future
 
2013-01-14 12:27:59 PM  

LostGuy: Arguing is a great way to learn as long as everyone understands the rules. If I were a prof, the first thing I'd have my students do each day is pull out a list of the 40 or so most common fallacies and put them on their desk.


And there, folks, is the difference between "debate" and "the Politics Tab," where arguments are uncited, insulting and salacious and the points mean nothing. There are rules and protocol to debating, and shouted insults are not among them, well unless you want to be judged the loser of a debate. I find it even sadder when people pull that crap in real life or on Facebook among people that they know.

Petey4335: They have since early on. However, you have to be active yourself
1) Do not feed the trolls
2) Put them either on ignore or highlight
3) Highlight those who normally (albeit sanely) disagree with you.


Indeed; this is a consumer-driven environment. People that should know better do none of these things, and so you end up in threads with 200 comments solely dedicated to responses to people with "Trole" in their handle. Did I say "Trole?" I meant "Troll."

A properly-addressed P-Tab thread should be a sea of colored-block posts.
 
2013-01-14 12:37:44 PM  
Because I said so you big poopy head.
 
2013-01-14 03:28:20 PM  
Politics tab to me is pretty much the age old "My dad can beat up your dad" debate
 
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