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(Stuff.co.nz)   Good news everyone, some guy named Derek has determined that there's no scientific medical evidence for drug addiction, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or PTSD. Whew   (stuff.co.nz) divider line 288
    More: Asinine, post-traumatic stress disorders, forensic biologist, brain diseases, schizophrenia, incurable, diseases  
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10528 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jan 2013 at 2:47 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-13 09:31:15 PM
I knew a guy named Derek who was a heroin addict. When he bought a pack of needles he always had a story for why he needed them. My favorite was when he said "I  need the needles for my bird. It's diabetic."
 
2013-01-13 10:09:21 PM
I thought scientologists weren't welcome in nz?
 
2013-01-13 11:49:04 PM
What about douchebaggery?
 
2013-01-13 11:59:55 PM

Asa Phelps: I thought scientologists weren't welcome in nz?


Don't be glib, Matt.
 
2013-01-14 12:04:37 AM
Were the Dominoes consulted?
 
2013-01-14 12:08:11 AM
And don't EVEN get him started about fibromyalgia.
 
2013-01-14 12:11:49 AM
i have to be honest. I find this being a complete pratt, and I would move forward the notion that we as a people confiscate his human card.
Like he had one to begin with !
But, then again- this is why we have free speech- to allow all, to say their bit, no matter how big a nutter they are. Well done ,  DEREK SEYMOUR , well done. Thanks
 
2013-01-14 12:14:40 AM
yes, I did thank a nutter for his help
 
2013-01-14 12:40:10 AM
However, even today, there is no scientific medical evidence that any of these so-called diseases exist.

Not for alcoholism. Not for drug addiction. Not for schizophrenia. Not for bipolar disorder, nor post-traumatic stress disorder.


Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong.

And so I stopped reading.
 
2013-01-14 01:08:54 AM
What an asinine Derek might look like:

cdn.buzznet.com
 
2013-01-14 02:08:51 AM
He's a Derek. And Dereks don't run.
 
2013-01-14 02:50:46 AM
I had a feeling that the common sense in that article wouldn't be received well here.
 
2013-01-14 02:52:47 AM

david_gaithersburg: I had a feeling that the common sense in that article wouldn't be received well here.


There wasn't common sense, only solipsism.
 
2013-01-14 02:54:03 AM
*snorts a line and then shoots up with heroin and then does a shot of whiskey*

I should be good to go
 
2013-01-14 02:59:34 AM
wow. the headline is 100% accurate.

It's just some guy named derek making baseless claims.
 
2013-01-14 03:01:46 AM
Beware of excessive asshattery! Counting down days until this makes FOX news..
 
2013-01-14 03:08:14 AM
In comparison to genuine diseases like cancer, psychiatrists have yet to devise one single biological test to prove scientifically that any of their diseases actually exist. Why? Because they don't exist!
imageshack.us
 
2013-01-14 03:08:25 AM
Whew. I thought this was Derek Smart for a second.
 
2013-01-14 03:08:39 AM
Personally, on the fence about addiction. Not sure what separates "I have a disease" from "this is an activity I enjoy; why do you want me to stop?".

But everything else there is giving off high theton levels.
 
2013-01-14 03:11:18 AM
I note this guy says nothing about nicotine. I'd advise someone get him a few cans of copenhagen every day for a few years and then have him try to get off it.

/never dipped/chewed myself, but a bunch of my redneck friends have and apparently it's quite the chore to kick, to the point that even 5+ years after quitting, they still dream about the stuff
 
2013-01-14 03:11:58 AM
Well, looks like we all dodged a bullet then.
 
2013-01-14 03:11:59 AM

Oysterman: Personally, on the fence about addiction. Not sure what separates "I have a disease" from "this is an activity I enjoy; why do you want me to stop?".


never quit smoking have you?cause if you ever do, you don't sit around thinking "I want a cigarette just because I really enjoy them."
 
433 [TotalFark]
2013-01-14 03:12:20 AM
Well, he can have his opinion, and I can disagree with him.  His citing studies of Vietnam vets that smoked (smoked) and came back hunky dory is very strange and ought to set off the alarm on this fellow if it hadn't already.  My uncle was stationed in a hospital in Virginia (IIRC) where he guarded a wing of addicts returning from Vietnam.  They had to go through withdrawals before being discharged.  He has told me some very unpleasant stories about it, and regrettably, I've picked up some of my own, as well.

I often hear sentiments like his bantied about, often by people who otherwise seem rational.  I suppose this is where I just differ from that mindset.  There is a lot I want to infer about the writer, but that wouldn't be appropriate.  I think that greater research that does not narrow towards his POV would help, but he may just dismiss that, as well.  He and people like him are most likely going to feel that way all through life barring a significant event that then creates change within them.

I am glad that the scientific community at large is in disagreement with this fellow, and that studies exploring as many avenues as can be discovered have been completed, are underway, will be in the future, and will be when they are discovered.

The best thing I could hope for this screwball is that he will become less narrow in thought, more considerate and thoughtful of things he does not understand, and that the Op Ed column remains a place for diverse opinions, while the big boys operating under the scientific method and under laboratory conditions when necessary stay beyond the reach of corruption and continue to make highly informed assertions, theories, and statements upon what is "fact."

Derek, this may the time for you to lean out a window and shout "I"m mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!"
THen go post about it online, or write a screed to the paper.
 
2013-01-14 03:13:22 AM
I've always felt addiction is a symptom of a different, usually more serious, but less treatable underlying condition. You get addicted to something in your efforts to distance yourself from something else. This can apply to addictions ranging from hoarding to porn to hoarding porn.

/just speaking from personal experience
//and the experience of every addict I've ever spoken with
 
2013-01-14 03:14:56 AM
Oh, and his comments about PTSD and the mental disorders he mentions are complete bullshiat. Author has very clearly never met anyone with any of these conditions.
 
2013-01-14 03:15:20 AM
"...psychiatrists have yet to devise one single biological test to prove scientifically that any of their diseases actually exist. Why? Because they don't exist!"

Yeah! Stop faking, all you fakers! We're on to you. Especially you, "schizophrenics". Dirty liars.
 
2013-01-14 03:15:30 AM

david_gaithersburg: I had a feeling that the common sense in that article wouldn't be received well here.


common sense = uneducated
 
2013-01-14 03:16:24 AM

Oysterman: Personally, on the fence about addiction. Not sure what separates "I have a disease" from "this is an activity I enjoy; why do you want me to stop?".

But everything else there is giving off high theton levels.


Alcoholism/addiction becomes a disease when the person doesn't even want to drink but has a physical or psychological dependency that compels them to do so. When the feelings of joy while drinking are grossly outweighed by DUIs, divorce, losing a job, poor health, etc but the person keeps drinking anyway. That's addiction and it's very real.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2013-01-14 03:16:48 AM

red5ish: In comparison to genuine diseases like cancer, psychiatrists have yet to devise one single biological test to prove scientifically that any of their diseases actually exist. Why? Because they don't exist!


I suppose MRIs aren't biological, since they only take cool pictures.
If Derek has schooling beyond an HS diploma, I'm betting he's getting a kiwi equivalent of an MBA.
 
2013-01-14 03:17:24 AM

Oysterman: Personally, on the fence about addiction. Not sure what separates "I have a disease" from "this is an activity I enjoy; why do you want me to stop?".

But everything else there is giving off high theton levels.



Chemical dependency is what makes it an addiction. When your body goes through withdrawal because it does not have what it craves. Have you never seen what a heroine addict goes through? How about we go lower and try caffeine withdrawal, the headaches. Really dude?
 
2013-01-14 03:17:42 AM
Welcome to Stuff Nation. I think it's a cunning ploy to raise the status of print journalists - Stuff Nation invites every cretin who failed school cert economics to pontificate at length on a subject so frustrating that it's called the "dismal science."
 
2013-01-14 03:21:02 AM
Also from the "writer"

Don't ban smoking, ban obesity

The World Health Organisation says health is a complete state of physical, mental, and social well-being, not just an absence of disease or infirmity, which is why many smokers say smoking improves their health.
 
2013-01-14 03:23:23 AM
Derek sounds like he's incredibly lame at parties.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2013-01-14 03:24:03 AM

grinding_journalist: Author has very clearly never met anyone with any of these conditions.


Or has met a very few, and remained aloof and smug.  I knew a man not long ago that held an opinion close to Derek's, and after a while I left him alone.  The worst was when he referred to people suffering from either situational depression or clinical depression as "you people."  It was is he felt he was being persecuted by a world that ran against his unpopular and crackpot philosophies.

I'll eat lead paint chips if folks riding this bus are right.  At least he didn't invoke much of a conspiracy theory; he probably keeps that out of the paper and instead, on the cue cards at the local highly illogical thinkers society.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2013-01-14 03:25:17 AM

ladyfortuna: Derek sounds like he's incredibly lame at parties.


Derek didn't get the invitation.  Again.
 
2013-01-14 03:29:17 AM
"...psychiatrists have yet to devise one single biological test to prove scientifically that any of their diseases actually exist. Why? Because they don't exist!"

How about this: radically different brain scans showing parts of a persons brain are hypoactive and others are hyperactive, and are very different from base/normal people.  Depending on which parts are hypo- and which are hyper- you're brain scan will probably look a lot like other scans of people who hear voices or have wild mood swings like you do!

When we introduce a chemical into your system the voices/rage/mood swings go away!!

HOW IS THIS NOT PROOF!

There are DNA studies, studies of twins raised separately (twins with alcoholic parents or schizophrenic or whatever) who have roughly the same chance of developing a condition when raised apart in different environments (like children of alcoholics raised separately - one by drinkers, one by non-drinkers - whose chances of being addicts are pretty similar)

Do some people drink irresponsibly and it causes problems, but they aren't alcoholics?  Yes.  If you are saying this is true of all people suffering (yes suffering) from addiction, you are a fkn idiot.

Ergo, this guy is a fkn idiot.

There is plenty of scientific evidence - fkn mountains and more all the time - that disprove this moran's sanctimonious garbage.

I know fark-all about PTSD, so apply the above only to the others.
 
2013-01-14 03:29:43 AM
What a douche.

Someone toss him in the middle of an Indian buss while he is dressed like a girl. Let him get gang raped and then see if he gets PTSD.
 
2013-01-14 03:30:01 AM

433: ladyfortuna: Derek sounds like he's incredibly lame at parties.

Derek didn't get the invitation.  Again.


Derek came anyway.  Nobody talked to him.  Again.
 
2013-01-14 03:34:15 AM

Oysterman: Personally, on the fence about addiction. Not sure what separates "I have a disease" from "this is an activity I enjoy; why do you want me to stop?".

But everything else there is giving off high theton levels.


Depends on the addiction. Heroin? Meth? Cocaine? Yep. Chemically addictive. Porn? WoW? Not really. Any activity with a reward can cause a feedback loop that makes you want to do it again and again. But some chemicals are deeply addictive. The guy in TFA is an idiot.
 
2013-01-14 03:41:10 AM

TorqueToad: Whew. I thought this was Derek Smart for a second.


Derek Smart.
 
2013-01-14 03:47:57 AM

Ed Grubermann: Depends on the addiction. Heroin? Meth? Cocaine? Yep. Chemically addictive. Porn? WoW? Not really. Any activity with a reward can cause a feedback loop that makes you want to do it again and again. But some chemicals are deeply addictive. The guy in TFA is an idiot.


Hence why people differentiate between physical addiction and psychological addition.
 
2013-01-14 03:52:44 AM
juvandy:

I note this guy says nothing about nicotine. I'd advise someone get him a few cans of copenhagen every day for a few years and then have him try to get off it.

I quit smoking in April 2000 after 25 years of 2 packs a day. It wasn't easy, I'll grant there are physiological mechanisms to be overcome and so on, but I'd have to say anybody who claims they just can't quit is a weakling who just doesn't want to. All it takes is motivation: mine was a hot babe 10 years younger whose nipples ALWAYS protrude who's very allergic to cigarette smoke, and having had chronic bronchitis and daily asthma attacks for three years.

I won't go so far as to say physical addiction is impossible or imaginary, just that a lot of the rhetoric is overblown. E.g, most of the people in 12 step programs and/or rehab are there because they got caught drunk driving or possessing an "illegal substance" and cut a deal, not because they actually hit bottom and decided on their own they needed to Let Go & Let God free them from this evil curse. Most so-called addicts are only habituated: they only think they can't do without it.

Of course dying from sudden barbiturate or alcohol withdrawal is a real possibility, but if you were able to simply quit drinking without getting DTs then you weren't physically addicted, just a temporary weakling with a bad habit you gave up.

(Does pointing that out make me a pedophile apologist or an antisemite? )
 
2013-01-14 03:53:37 AM

DKRainey: Oysterman: Personally, on the fence about addiction. Not sure what separates "I have a disease" from "this is an activity I enjoy; why do you want me to stop?".

But everything else there is giving off high theton levels.


Chemical dependency is what makes it an addiction. When your body goes through withdrawal because it does not have what it craves. Have you never seen what a heroine addict goes through? How about we go lower and try caffeine withdrawal, the headaches. Really dude?


Ya rly. Chemical dependency I understand. I remember reading about how threatening heroin withdrawal is. Other hard drugs fall under addiction for me. But that's not the only thing sailing under the addiction flag now, is it?
Caffeine... even taking the headaches into account, 'addiction' seems like a strong word compared to the former.
And then when you get to the internet, shopping, hoarding, etc...
 
2013-01-14 03:53:58 AM
In order for an addiction to qualify as an addiction it has to alter your brain chemistry to the point where your normal function without the activity or influence is impaired. Even psychological addictions can create that - and the byproduct of the influenced 'normal' state is itself basically a slow-reaction panic attack where you feel like you're dying.
 
2013-01-14 03:56:32 AM

fusillade762: And don't EVEN get him started about fibromyalgia.


That is one of the funniest things I have read in a long time. +1 Internets to you.
 
2013-01-14 04:01:04 AM
cdn02.cdnwp.celebuzz.com

We already knew that, that's why we're "the authority".
 
2013-01-14 04:07:31 AM
TalenLee:

In order for an addiction to qualify as an addiction it has to alter your brain chemistry to the point where your normal function without the activity or influence is impaired. Even psychological addictions can create that - and the byproduct of the influenced 'normal' state is itself basically a slow-reaction panic attack where you feel like you're dying.

I'm going into conniptions & convulsions because your mom quite sending me dirty pictures. I'll die!11!
 
2013-01-14 04:12:09 AM
Lionel Mandrake:

When we introduce a chemical into your system the voices/rage/mood swings go away!!

Sorry, no. The rage & mood swings go away because I'm too sedated to do anything but drool & shiat myself; the voices stay, and they laugh at me because I drool & shiat myself.

But hey, what you read on a web site is infinitely more valuable than the testimony of one who's BT,DT; go right on thinking "OMG I'M AN EXPERT!1!"
 
2013-01-14 04:14:13 AM
Why the hell did he toss in schizophrenia and bipolar disorder and PTSD with addictions?
 
2013-01-14 04:15:15 AM
What is this I don't even chicken pot chicken pot chicken pot pie.
 
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