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(BBC)   Good: Eskimos cutting blocks of ice from the ground to use for refrigeration. Bad: Chinese cutting blocks from the air to use as fuel for furnaces   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 146
    More: Scary, historical capitals of China, respiratory tract infections, World Health Organization, air pollution  
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25106 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jan 2013 at 2:44 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-13 03:43:10 PM  
funny, all liberals want us to live like North Korea, Cuba and China.

Then, they blame capitalism and freedom for the problems in those countries, which are always horribly run.

Boy are liberals just retarded.
 
2013-01-13 03:45:25 PM  
At first we were like...
cdn.hauteliving.com
Now we're all...
www.fp.foreignpolicy.com
 
2013-01-13 03:52:09 PM  
Any republitards in here want to describe the cognitive dissonance they feel when reading about this. Can we see why environmental protection laws might be a good thing now? Or should we be more like China?
 
2013-01-13 03:54:39 PM  

insano: Any republitards in here want to describe the cognitive dissonance they feel when reading about this. Can we see why environmental protection laws might be a good thing now? Or should we be more like China?


Get those points in for your side!
 
2013-01-13 03:55:26 PM  

xria: middlewaytao: Allen. The end.: B-b-but capitalism!

Outsourcing pollution to avoid local standards is a huge part of capitalist globalization.

Which will work until there is no-one with a poor enough economy that they will be willing to die from breathing or drinking polluted water, and then many forms of pollution will drop as it will be "priced in"/regulated roughly equally in all places.
/obviously this won't work with CO2 as the people generating in and the people that suffer from it is far less linked than the types of pollution in the article


The population here wouldn't accept it, we have a small amount of control over the government. The population there doesn't accept it, yet they have basically no control over their government.

If corporate libertarians understood what Adam Smith meant by the "invisible hand", they would realize the industries of his time would be polluting their own back yards, and not do it, outsourcing was completely a impracticable idea in that era.

So here we are with the absurd situation of "capitalist" profiting from communist oppression.
 
2013-01-13 04:01:10 PM  
It would probably be better for air quality to just go nuclear. Can't just jump to solar because you need to see the sun first.
 
2013-01-13 04:02:05 PM  

Yogimus: insano: Any republitards in here want to describe the cognitive dissonance they feel when reading about this. Can we see why environmental protection laws might be a good thing now? Or should we be more like China?

Get those points in for your side!


I didn't make environmental protection an issue of sides; conservatives did that all on their own. In a rational world, everyone would recognize why protecting air quality, etc is important. Unfortunately, the EPA, greenhouse gas regulations, automobile emissions standards, etc, are all targets of conservative ridicule.
 
2013-01-13 04:03:10 PM  

OgreMagi: Brontes: Anyone know what caused this particular bout of high levels?  Is this a particularly stagnant time of year for weather fronts that region or is it only going to get worse?

China is opening coal burning power plants at an alarming rate.  Plus, unlike the US, they don't enforce any environmental laws.  Also, even though they signed the Kyoto treaty, they are specifically categorized as a "developing nation", so don't have to adhere to any of those environmental laws.


Do you know if or when China will be considered a Developed nation? Who decides that designation?
 
2013-01-13 04:18:07 PM  

Coastalgrl: Do you know if or when China will be considered a Developed nation? Who decides that designation?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country

the more you know
 
2013-01-13 04:20:42 PM  
Developed countries have post-industrial economies, meaning the service sector provides more wealth than the industrial sector. They are contrasted with developing countries, which are in the process of industrialization, or undeveloped countries, which are pre-industrial and almost entirely agrarian. According to the International Monetary Fund, advanced economies comprise 65.8% of global nominal GDP and 52.1% of global GDP (PPP) in 2010.[2] In 2011, the ten largest advanced economies by either nominal GDP or GDP (PPP) are the United States, Japan, Germany, France, the United Kingdom, Italy, Canada, Spain, Republic of Korea, and Australia.[3][4]
 
2013-01-13 04:23:49 PM  
This is a pic i saw recently from thier new anime theme park :(

http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2013/january/GamingThemePa rk 18.jpg
 
2013-01-13 04:24:24 PM  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_I n dex

damn you so very much
now I am going to spend all day on wikipedia
again
 
2013-01-13 04:31:26 PM  
Remember, China is the world leader in green energy. Coal is only evil when it's used in the US
 
2013-01-13 04:32:47 PM  

penthesilea: China's air pollution can be seen from space. It's a huge thick blanket of gray brown asthma and cancer.


But they're going to keep making all of our inexpensive crap, right? Right???
 
2013-01-13 04:40:53 PM  
www.kickseat.com
The problem is, the flying cars all run on coal...
 
2013-01-13 04:41:57 PM  
farm4.staticflickr.com
A good day in Beijing
 
2013-01-13 04:42:31 PM  

penthesilea: China's air pollution can be seen from space. It's a huge thick blanket of gray brown asthma and cancer.


That's their missile defense system, they can't hit what they can't see.
 
2013-01-13 04:43:55 PM  

aegean: funny, all liberals want us to live like North Korea, Cuba and China.

Then, they blame capitalism and freedom for the problems in those countries, which are always horribly run.

Boy are liberals just retarded.


2/10. The extra point is because I lol'd.
 
2013-01-13 04:46:31 PM  

aegean: funny, all liberals want us to live like North Korea, Cuba and China.

Then, they blame capitalism and freedom for the problems in those countries, which are always horribly run.

Boy are liberals just retarded.


Why would "Liberals" want you to live like NK, Cuba, and China?

Here's a hint: You are so stupid just for positing that that I am not sure whether you can breathe unassisted.
 
2013-01-13 04:48:41 PM  

DesertDemonWY: Remember, China is the world leader in green energy. Coal is only evil when it's used in the US


Except you're too stupid to realize that your own link is about manufacturing (turbines and solar panels) faster than other nations. China is a giant factory, of course it churns out more product. This is a stupid, non-story, and one day you disingenuous farkers are going to realize that throwing shiat into a fan doesn't help you prove anything.
 
2013-01-13 04:53:15 PM  

insano: Any republitards in here want to describe the cognitive dissonance they feel when reading about this. Can we see why environmental protection laws might be a good thing now? Or should we be more like China?


You get right on that...maybe you should schedule a flight to meet with the Chinese government to discuss your grievances... This is why what we do in the US has only a minimal effect on the global environment.
 
2013-01-13 04:53:35 PM  

Plant Rights Activist: [chawedrosin.files.wordpress.com image 270x456]
fun to listen to


That's the one where Earth has been knocked into a farther orbit and the atmosphere condensed out and one isolated family is managing to survive in their bomb shelter, right? Good little story, X Minus One did a nice adaptation.
 
2013-01-13 04:56:18 PM  
So pretty much they're all going to die of cancer in 20 years or so? I guess that means we'll get some jobs back?
 
2013-01-13 04:57:31 PM  

bbcard1: insano: Any republitards in here want to describe the cognitive dissonance they feel when reading about this. Can we see why environmental protection laws might be a good thing now? Or should we be more like China?

You get right on that...maybe you should schedule a flight to meet with the Chinese government to discuss your grievances... This is why what we do in the US has only a minimal effect on the global environment.


The US did super-pollution first and best, and continues to reap the rewards of having done so.

I'm not saying the US is to blame for the world's pollution problem, because it's really not. However, the US is the most powerful nation in history, and has taken on a role of global leadership; you can't just abdicate that self-appointed position when it's inconvenient. The US has decided it must lead, so, lead. Show the world how to do it right, do it profitably, and do it in such a way that quality of life goes up for all involved.
 
2013-01-13 04:58:09 PM  

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: So pretty much they're all going to die of cancer in 20 years or so? I guess that means we'll get some jobs back?


How many iPhones can you assemble in 30 seconds?
 
2013-01-13 05:06:32 PM  
Now that everything says "Made in China" on it our air is cleaner and their air is dirtier. Go figure. Also it doesn't help that they open a new coal power plant every week there.
 
2013-01-13 05:11:01 PM  

Oznog: [www.kickseat.com image 850x294]
The problem is, the flying cars all run on coal...


It was an interesting flaw in the story.
You have power, science and tech for flying cars, but you still had stacks blowing off methane and massive pollution? I think not.

With enough clean power you could spend huge amounts of energy cleaning up the mess.
On the other hand, when do we need to start worrying about entropy?
 
2013-01-13 05:12:11 PM  
Yeah, you'll have to start paying more for your iPhone.... especially when I show up stoned, and can't be fired without a series of warnings and written violations that my union negotiates. If they're made in America, they'll be about $5000 each.

www.iphonbuzz.com
 
2013-01-13 05:12:41 PM  

namatad: OgreMagi: China is opening coal burning power plants at an alarming rate.  Plus, unlike the US, they don't enforce any environmental laws.  Also, even though they signed the Kyoto treaty, they are specifically categorized as a "developing nation", so don't have to adhere to any of those environmental laws.

My dad tells stories of growing up in Chicago back in the days of coal. (30s and 40s)
Coughing up coal dust. So we were there not that long ago, and China was frozen in place for 50 years by the revolution. I am sure that they will come around ... in 10-50 more years.

Kyoto Treaty? ROFL
What a worthless POS. China and India were exempt. China and India increased CO2 during the Treaty period by a larger amount than the total theoretical reduction if all other nations had complied. Unless we are going to include China and India, things will only continue to get "worse" at an increasing rate. And unless we are willing to force China and India to comply, why are we even pretending to reduce emissions?

/sorry, but reducing the increase by such a tiny amount has no effect in reality. your beliefs do not change reality.


In the 30's and 40's the technology didn't exists to filter emissions from plants. Today it does, but China isn't bothering to implement them.
 
2013-01-13 05:14:57 PM  
JACKIE CHAN SAY AIR IN CHINA BEST IN WORLD
 
2013-01-13 05:18:29 PM  

OgreMagi: namatad: OgreMagi: China is opening coal burning power plants at an alarming rate.  Plus, unlike the US, they don't enforce any environmental laws.  Also, even though they signed the Kyoto treaty, they are specifically categorized as a "developing nation", so don't have to adhere to any of those environmental laws.

My dad tells stories of growing up in Chicago back in the days of coal. (30s and 40s)
Coughing up coal dust. So we were there not that long ago, and China was frozen in place for 50 years by the revolution. I am sure that they will come around ... in 10-50 more years.

Kyoto Treaty? ROFL
What a worthless POS. China and India were exempt. China and India increased CO2 during the Treaty period by a larger amount than the total theoretical reduction if all other nations had complied. Unless we are going to include China and India, things will only continue to get "worse" at an increasing rate. And unless we are willing to force China and India to comply, why are we even pretending to reduce emissions?

/sorry, but reducing the increase by such a tiny amount has no effect in reality. your beliefs do not change reality.

Technically, China did comply with Kyoto.  Not one of the western nations met their treaty reduction requirements.  We did not sign the treaty because it set an impossible level for us to meet.  The treaty would best be described as, "let's destroy the U.S. economy".



That can't be right. A certain side keeps telling me that President Bush was history's greatest monster for not signing Kyoto.
 
2013-01-13 05:18:55 PM  

ongbok: In the 30's and 40's the technology didn't exists to filter emissions from plants. Today it does, but China isn't bothering to implement them.


of course the tech existed, it might have been cruder and more expensive, but filters/scrubbers are not rocket science. there was zero government oversight forcing them to do it.
The cost for china to do this would be tiny, plus it would probably create jobs and more exports for china.
But scrubbing has zero ROI unless the government fines you enough to more than cover the expense if you dont.
 
2013-01-13 05:25:05 PM  
Does that mean that next time some politician or patriotic 'merikun talks about taking out jerbs back from them yella chicoms I should point this article to them?
 
2013-01-13 05:33:16 PM  
I spent a week in Hong Kong a few years back. On my first day I spent about 5 hours just walking around the city. My lungs hurt for the next month - turned out that the pollution that day was something like triple their previous record, and there were warnings not to be outside. Lovely.
 
2013-01-13 05:33:53 PM  

RatMaster999: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 850x660]

Beijing of the future?

/obscure?


I don't think that Beijing will ever have a tank police.

Newport city's problem was a bacterial cloud, not a smog cloud.
 
2013-01-13 05:33:59 PM  

namatad: Oznog: [www.kickseat.com image 850x294]
The problem is, the flying cars all run on coal...

It was an interesting flaw in the story.
You have power, science and tech for flying cars, but you still had stacks blowing off methane and massive pollution? I think not.

With enough clean power you could spend huge amounts of energy cleaning up the mess.
On the other hand, when do we need to start worrying about entropy?


Basically, we have at least a trillion years, probably closer to a hundred trillion years.
 
2013-01-13 05:44:24 PM  
Anybody in Hong Kong willing to point their phone outside and take a pic for us?
 
2013-01-13 05:44:29 PM  
I took this picture a year before the Beijing Olympics. This was taken from a moving taxi on the highway. And this was in the heart of Beijing's massive pre-Olympics air-quality cleanup effort.

pallium.com
 
2013-01-13 05:46:06 PM  

LavenderWolf: Basically, we have at least a trillion years, probably closer to a hundred trillion years.


SURE, for the universe, but what about locally, like just on the planet.
I am thinking more of the Puppeteer Homeworld and the heat problems created when you have too many people and produce too much entropy via energy conversion/production/usage.
 
2013-01-13 05:49:34 PM  

aegean: funny, all liberals want us to live like North Korea, Cuba and China.

Then, they blame capitalism and freedom for the problems in those countries, which are always horribly run.

Boy are liberals just retarded.


WTF is this shiat?
 
2013-01-13 05:51:10 PM  
Beijing:

news.bbcimg.co.uk

Los Angeles:

img.timeinc.net
 
2013-01-13 06:00:51 PM  

FatherChaos: Beijing:

[news.bbcimg.co.uk image 464x261]

Los Angeles:

[img.timeinc.net image 360x235]


sure, but LA is completely DIFFERENT!!!
It is all cars!!!
:D
 
2013-01-13 06:09:40 PM  

Coastalgrl: OgreMagi: Brontes: Anyone know what caused this particular bout of high levels?  Is this a particularly stagnant time of year for weather fronts that region or is it only going to get worse?

China is opening coal burning power plants at an alarming rate.  Plus, unlike the US, they don't enforce any environmental laws.  Also, even though they signed the Kyoto treaty, they are specifically categorized as a "developing nation", so don't have to adhere to any of those environmental laws.

Do you know if or when China will be considered a Developed nation? Who decides that designation?


You don't get it - they do. The Chinese pretty much run the UN through their proxy, the US.
 
2013-01-13 06:25:14 PM  

namatad: Developed countries have post-industrial economies, meaning the service sector provides more wealth than the industrial sector. They are contrasted with developing countries, which are in the process of industrialization, or undeveloped countries, which are pre-industrial and almost entirely agrarian. According to the International Monetary Fund, advanced economies comprise 65.8% of global nominal GDP and 52.1% of global GDP (PPP) in 2010.[2] In 2011, the ten largest advanced economies by either nominal GDP or GDP (PPP) are the United States, Japan, Germany, France, the United Kingdom, Italy, Canada, Spain, Republic of Korea, and Australia.[3][4]


So developing countries make the plastic shiat that our economy is based on selling to each other.
 
2013-01-13 06:50:25 PM  
For all there is to dislike about some of the onerous and niche serving EPA rules, as a person who was alive and noticing in the 60's and 70's, the air is much better because of them.
 
2013-01-13 06:51:10 PM  

fluffy2097: RatMaster999: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 850x660]

Beijing of the future?

/obscure?

I don't think that Beijing will ever have a tank police.

Newport city's problem was a bacterial cloud, not a smog cloud.


i789.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-13 06:51:47 PM  

Allen. The end.: B-b-but capitalism!


Derp
 
2013-01-13 06:53:55 PM  

Raharu: Don't worry, the invisible hand of the free market will take care of this.


Double derp
 
2013-01-13 06:56:09 PM  

middlewaytao: Allen. The end.: B-b-but capitalism!

Outsourcing pollution to avoid local standards is a huge part of capitalist globalization.


You can outsource coal plants?
 
2013-01-13 06:56:33 PM  

SuperNinjaToad: Every developing nation goes through this cycle. It is unavoidable. The US and many other developed nations today are not immune to it themselves. Just that many of the younger ones have either forgotten or have not witness it first hand. Just like the US, China will one day realized the negative price of capitalism and development and get their environment under control. Of course by then the avg Chinese will be biatching about how or why countries like Indonesia, Philipines, Brazil etc are getting the environment into shait not ever realizing their's was not too dissimilar just a couple decades earlier.


Oh, they realize it already. It is part of the plan; first pollute and make money, clean up afterwards. China is doing what the West has done as well, only condensed in a much shorter period.

I've seen a lot of improvement in my city during the 5 years I was in China in terms of pollution. In my first years, I think there were 5 blue sky days a year, last year there were at least a few each month. Still horrible, but improving.

Already the goals that China is setting for itself in terms of reliance on alternative fuel is higher than in the west. While in indeed coal plants are built like crazy, they are also building the largest hydro-, solar and wind plants in the world.
 
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