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(BBC)   Good: Eskimos cutting blocks of ice from the ground to use for refrigeration. Bad: Chinese cutting blocks from the air to use as fuel for furnaces   (bbc.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Scary, historical capitals of China, respiratory tract infections, World Health Organization, air pollution  
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25121 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jan 2013 at 2:44 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



146 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-01-13 12:03:01 PM  
WHO guidelines say average concentrations of the tiniest pollution particles - called PM2.5 - should be no more than 25 microgrammes per cubic metre. ... Unofficial reading from a monitor at the US embassy recorded 800.

32 times the limit. Like driving with a BAC of 1.6%, but not as fun.
 
2013-01-13 12:41:40 PM  
Anyone know what caused this particular bout of high levels?  Is this a particularly stagnant time of year for weather fronts that region or is it only going to get worse?
 
2013-01-13 01:15:52 PM  
China's air pollution can be seen from space. It's a huge thick blanket of gray brown asthma and cancer.
 
2013-01-13 02:40:30 PM  
Sometimes the air around me becomes flammable enough to be used as fuel.
 
2013-01-13 02:45:52 PM  

CruiserTwelve: Sometimes the air around me becomes flammable enough to be used as fuel.


Yes, but without the nasty particulate matter.

One hopes.
 
2013-01-13 02:47:31 PM  

CruiserTwelve: Sometimes the air around me becomes flammable enough to be used as fuel.


Renewable energy sources the NeoCons don't want you to know about.
 
2013-01-13 02:48:33 PM  
i.qkme.me
 
2013-01-13 02:50:08 PM  
Kept making those little lead covered McDonald's toys though, we love them!
 
2013-01-13 02:50:29 PM  
Environmental regulations are a commie plot to infringe on my freedoms!! Wait what?
 
2013-01-13 02:51:22 PM  
 
2013-01-13 02:51:31 PM  
And Godzilla hasn't come and destroyed them yet?

Oh wait; Godzilla is Japanise. They probably have a cheap knock off of mothra in china.
 
2013-01-13 02:54:59 PM  
When I was studying abroad in Beijing, I would blow my nose and the contests were brown. I would wash my face in the evening, and the washcloth showed black streaks. Yeah, it might have been cleaner to take up smoking.
 
2013-01-13 02:55:30 PM  

penthesilea: China's air pollution can be seen from space. It's a huge thick blanket of gray brown asthma and cancer.


No, no, it's "fog".
At least that's what the Chinese government calls it.
 
2013-01-13 02:56:45 PM  
B-b-but capitalism!
 
2013-01-13 02:58:50 PM  
Deadly smog is a small price to pay to be free of all those job-killing regulations.
 
2013-01-13 02:59:39 PM  

Schadenfreudianslip: When I was studying abroad in Beijing, I would blow my nose and the contests were brown. I would wash my face in the evening, and the washcloth showed black streaks. Yeah, it might have been cleaner to take up smoking.


What kind of contests were you entered into?? Wait, I don't want to know.
 
2013-01-13 03:00:08 PM  
Don't worry, the invisible hand of the free market will take care of this.
 
2013-01-13 03:01:00 PM  
So subby thinks their air in there... that's a laugh.

www.greenpeace.org
 
2013-01-13 03:01:53 PM  

Allen. The end.: B-b-but capitalism!


Outsourcing pollution to avoid local standards is a huge part of capitalist globalization.
 
2013-01-13 03:03:00 PM  
The good news is you can still get stuff cheap at Wal-mart
 
2013-01-13 03:03:54 PM  

Brontes: Anyone know what caused this particular bout of high levels?  Is this a particularly stagnant time of year for weather fronts that region or is it only going to get worse?


China is opening coal burning power plants at an alarming rate.  Plus, unlike the US, they don't enforce any environmental laws.  Also, even though they signed the Kyoto treaty, they are specifically categorized as a "developing nation", so don't have to adhere to any of those environmental laws.
 
2013-01-13 03:04:28 PM  
Sounds like Beijing is going the "Pittsburgh" route of modernization.

It worked for Pittsburgh.

// You do have to stop sometime though.
/// Pittsburgh's solution was to get all its steel manufacturing shipped to... China.
 
2013-01-13 03:04:54 PM  

whatshisname: The good news is you can still get stuff cheap at Wal-mart


Which is good news to all those people who are bargain shopping themselves into the unemployment line.
 
2013-01-13 03:05:50 PM  

whatshisname: The good news is you can still get stuff cheap at Wal-mart


True dat, yo.
 
2013-01-13 03:06:12 PM  
Air is unhealthy above 100 microgrammes. At 300, all children and elderly people should remain indoors.

Official Beijing city readings on Saturday suggested pollution levels over 400. Unofficial reading from a monitor at the US embassy recorded 800.

Last year Chinese authorities warned the US embassy not to publish its data. But the embassy said the measurements were for the benefit of embassy personnel and were not citywide.

Yes. This right here describes so much of the trouble with the Communists in Mainland China. Anything that makes Big Brother look bad or wrong is a lie and must be suppressed!
 
2013-01-13 03:06:32 PM  
Donora, Pennsylvania 1948
The smog started building up in Donora on October 27, 1948. By the following day it was causing coughing and other signs of respiratory distress for many residents of the community in the Monongahela River valley. Many of the illnesses and deaths were initially attributed to asthma. The smog continued until it rained on October 31, by which time 20 residents of Donora had died and approximately a third to one half of the town's population of 14,000 residents had been sickened. Sixty years later, the incident was described by The New York Times as "one of the worst air pollution disasters in the nation's history".[1] Even ten years after the incident, mortality rates in Donora were significantly higher than those in other communities nearby.[2]

rest of wiki article

I saw this the History Channel a few nights ago on one of those rare occasions that they were talking about history.
 
2013-01-13 03:07:22 PM  

digistil: Schadenfreudianslip: When I was studying abroad in Beijing, I would blow my nose and the contests were brown. I would wash my face in the evening, and the washcloth showed black streaks. Yeah, it might have been cleaner to take up smoking.

What kind of contests were you entered into?? Wait, I don't want to know.


Damn autocorrect. I meant contents.
 
2013-01-13 03:09:30 PM  

whatshisname: The good news is you can still get stuff cheap at Wal-mart


I know someone who boycotts Wal-mart because of the chinese outsourcing, yet has an apartment full of big brand electronics bought from "reputable retailers".
 
2013-01-13 03:09:32 PM  

OgreMagi: China is opening coal burning power plants at an alarming rate.  Plus, unlike the US, they don't enforce any environmental laws.  Also, even though they signed the Kyoto treaty, they are specifically categorized as a "developing nation", so don't have to adhere to any of those environmental laws.


My dad tells stories of growing up in Chicago back in the days of coal. (30s and 40s)
Coughing up coal dust. So we were there not that long ago, and China was frozen in place for 50 years by the revolution. I am sure that they will come around ... in 10-50 more years.

Kyoto Treaty? ROFL
What a worthless POS. China and India were exempt. China and India increased CO2 during the Treaty period by a larger amount than the total theoretical reduction if all other nations had complied. Unless we are going to include China and India, things will only continue to get "worse" at an increasing rate. And unless we are willing to force China and India to comply, why are we even pretending to reduce emissions?

/sorry, but reducing the increase by such a tiny amount has no effect in reality. your beliefs do not change reality.
 
2013-01-13 03:10:09 PM  

opiumpoopy: CruiserTwelve: Sometimes the air around me becomes flammable enough to be used as fuel.

Yes, but without the nasty particulate matter.

One hopes.


All smells are particulate, aren't they?
 
2013-01-13 03:10:20 PM  

Kevin72: Air is unhealthy above 100 microgrammes. At 300, all children and elderly people should remain indoors.

Official Beijing city readings on Saturday suggested pollution levels over 400. Unofficial reading from a monitor at the US embassy recorded 800.

Last year Chinese authorities warned the US embassy not to publish its data. But the embassy said the measurements were for the benefit of embassy personnel and were not citywide.

Yes. This right here describes so much of the trouble with the Communists in Mainland China. Anything that makes Big Brother look bad or wrong is a lie and must be suppressed!


Welcome to a country without any free speech. LOL
 
2013-01-13 03:11:50 PM  

NutWrench: Donora, Pennsylvania 1948
The smog started building up in Donora on October 27, 1948. By the following day it was causing coughing and other signs of respiratory distress for many residents of the community in the Monongahela River valley. Many of the illnesses and deaths were initially attributed to asthma. The smog continued until it rained on October 31, by which time 20 residents of Donora had died and approximately a third to one half of the town's population of 14,000 residents had been sickened. Sixty years later, the incident was described by The New York Times as "one of the worst air pollution disasters in the nation's history".[1] Even ten years after the incident, mortality rates in Donora were significantly higher than those in other communities nearby.[2]
rest of wiki article

I saw this the History Channel a few nights ago on one of those rare occasions that they were talking about history.


this shiat used to happen in london every year.
 
GBB
2013-01-13 03:11:56 PM  
Meanwhile, at the US Embassy in Beijing:

US Embassy personnel encouraged to
t1.gstatic.com
of Beijing
 
2013-01-13 03:11:59 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com

Beijing of the future?

/obscure?
 
2013-01-13 03:12:47 PM  
Methane hydrates? In my air?

DNRTFAOTT
 
2013-01-13 03:13:24 PM  

Schadenfreudianslip: When I was studying abroad in Beijing, I would blow my nose and the contests were brown. I would wash my face in the evening, and the washcloth showed black streaks. Yeah, it might have been cleaner to take up smoking.


Yeah, my wife is from Shanghai. She didn't realize that snot wasn't brown/black until she came here.
 
2013-01-13 03:14:36 PM  

middlewaytao: Outsourcing pollution to avoid local standards is a huge part of capitalist globalization.


its a good idea too, since air doesn't move.
 
2013-01-13 03:14:51 PM  

middlewaytao: Allen. The end.: B-b-but capitalism!

Outsourcing pollution to avoid local standards is a huge part of capitalist globalization.


Which will work until there is no-one with a poor enough economy that they will be willing to die from breathing or drinking polluted water, and then many forms of pollution will drop as it will be "priced in"/regulated roughly equally in all places.
/obviously this won't work with CO2 as the people generating in and the people that suffer from it is far less linked than the types of pollution in the article
 
2013-01-13 03:17:27 PM  

Schadenfreudianslip: When I was studying abroad in Beijing, I would blow my nose and the contests were brown. I would wash my face in the evening, and the washcloth showed black streaks. Yeah, it might have been cleaner to take up smoking.


I used to work as a welder. That will give you some nasty, black snot, as well.
 
2013-01-13 03:20:45 PM  

namatad: OgreMagi: China is opening coal burning power plants at an alarming rate.  Plus, unlike the US, they don't enforce any environmental laws.  Also, even though they signed the Kyoto treaty, they are specifically categorized as a "developing nation", so don't have to adhere to any of those environmental laws.

My dad tells stories of growing up in Chicago back in the days of coal. (30s and 40s)
Coughing up coal dust. So we were there not that long ago, and China was frozen in place for 50 years by the revolution. I am sure that they will come around ... in 10-50 more years.

Kyoto Treaty? ROFL
What a worthless POS. China and India were exempt. China and India increased CO2 during the Treaty period by a larger amount than the total theoretical reduction if all other nations had complied. Unless we are going to include China and India, things will only continue to get "worse" at an increasing rate. And unless we are willing to force China and India to comply, why are we even pretending to reduce emissions?

/sorry, but reducing the increase by such a tiny amount has no effect in reality. your beliefs do not change reality.


Technically, China did comply with Kyoto.  Not one of the western nations met their treaty reduction requirements.  We did not sign the treaty because it set an impossible level for us to meet.  The treaty would best be described as, "let's destroy the U.S. economy".

Yes, China was frozen in place because of communism, but they are building all their coal plants without implementing any of the modern technology that is available to reduce emissions.  It's not like they need to reinvent the stuff.
 
2013-01-13 03:23:52 PM  

OgreMagi: Yes, China was frozen in place because of communism, but they are building all their coal plants without implementing any of the modern technology that is available to reduce emissions.  It's not like they need to reinvent the stuff.


Anyone know how much scrubbers and CO2 sequestration systems add to the cost of coal plant construction?
 
2013-01-13 03:24:40 PM  

NutWrench: Donora, Pennsylvania 1948
The smog started building up in Donora on October 27, 1948. By the following day it was causing coughing and other signs of respiratory distress for many residents of the community in the Monongahela River valley. Many of the illnesses and deaths were initially attributed to asthma. The smog continued until it rained on October 31, by which time 20 residents of Donora had died and approximately a third to one half of the town's population of 14,000 residents had been sickened. Sixty years later, the incident was described by The New York Times as "one of the worst air pollution disasters in the nation's history".[1] Even ten years after the incident, mortality rates in Donora were significantly higher than those in other communities nearby.[2]
rest of wiki article

I saw this the History Channel a few nights ago on one of those rare occasions that they were talking about history.


What show? Engineering disasters? Because most of History's history shows are on H2 now...
 
2013-01-13 03:30:59 PM  
Every developing nation goes through this cycle. It is unavoidable. The US and many other developed nations today are not immune to it themselves. Just that many of the younger ones have either forgotten or have not witness it first hand. Just like the US, China will one day realized the negative price of capitalism and development and get their environment under control. Of course by then the avg Chinese will be biatching about how or why countries like Indonesia, Philipines, Brazil etc are getting the environment into shait not ever realizing their's was not too dissimilar just a couple decades earlier.
 
2013-01-13 03:31:34 PM  
assets.bizjournals.com
 
2013-01-13 03:31:40 PM  

iheartscotch: And Godzilla hasn't come and destroyed them yet?

Oh wait; Godzilla is Japanise. They probably have a cheap knock off of mothra in china.


japan has Godzilla. China has Galenadon
 
2013-01-13 03:32:32 PM  

Brontes: Anyone know what caused this particular bout of high levels?  Is this a particularly stagnant time of year for weather fronts that region or is it only going to get worse?



if i had to wager a guess it would be the chinese government's not giving a fark about pollution so long as the money flows.
 
2013-01-13 03:33:30 PM  
Well, you can't make a 52" HD TV for $7.25 if you have any of those pesky labor laws or environmental restrictions.
 
2013-01-13 03:33:50 PM  

Kevin72: Air is unhealthy above 100 microgrammes. At 300, all children and elderly people should remain indoors.

Official Beijing city readings on Saturday suggested pollution levels over 400. Unofficial reading from a monitor at the US embassy recorded 800.

Last year Chinese authorities warned the US embassy not to publish its data. But the embassy said the measurements were for the benefit of embassy personnel and were not citywide.

Yes. This right here describes so much of the trouble with the Communists in Mainland China. Anything that makes Big Brother look bad or wrong is a lie and must be suppressed!


which is why we must keep on telling the truth about Obama and his secret plan to convert the US into a mooslin nation!!! Only sane folks like you and me must fight on to mitigate such supression and lies by the gubment.
 
2013-01-13 03:34:50 PM  

probesport: [assets.bizjournals.com image 280x274]


Came for this leaving happy.
/hail scroob!
 
2013-01-13 03:38:11 PM  
You smell that? That's freedom.

Freedom smells like that sometimes.
 
2013-01-13 03:43:10 PM  
funny, all liberals want us to live like North Korea, Cuba and China.

Then, they blame capitalism and freedom for the problems in those countries, which are always horribly run.

Boy are liberals just retarded.
 
2013-01-13 03:45:25 PM  
At first we were like...
cdn.hauteliving.com
Now we're all...
www.fp.foreignpolicy.com
 
2013-01-13 03:52:09 PM  
Any republitards in here want to describe the cognitive dissonance they feel when reading about this. Can we see why environmental protection laws might be a good thing now? Or should we be more like China?
 
2013-01-13 03:54:39 PM  

insano: Any republitards in here want to describe the cognitive dissonance they feel when reading about this. Can we see why environmental protection laws might be a good thing now? Or should we be more like China?


Get those points in for your side!
 
2013-01-13 03:55:26 PM  

xria: middlewaytao: Allen. The end.: B-b-but capitalism!

Outsourcing pollution to avoid local standards is a huge part of capitalist globalization.

Which will work until there is no-one with a poor enough economy that they will be willing to die from breathing or drinking polluted water, and then many forms of pollution will drop as it will be "priced in"/regulated roughly equally in all places.
/obviously this won't work with CO2 as the people generating in and the people that suffer from it is far less linked than the types of pollution in the article


The population here wouldn't accept it, we have a small amount of control over the government. The population there doesn't accept it, yet they have basically no control over their government.

If corporate libertarians understood what Adam Smith meant by the "invisible hand", they would realize the industries of his time would be polluting their own back yards, and not do it, outsourcing was completely a impracticable idea in that era.

So here we are with the absurd situation of "capitalist" profiting from communist oppression.
 
2013-01-13 04:01:10 PM  
It would probably be better for air quality to just go nuclear. Can't just jump to solar because you need to see the sun first.
 
2013-01-13 04:02:05 PM  

Yogimus: insano: Any republitards in here want to describe the cognitive dissonance they feel when reading about this. Can we see why environmental protection laws might be a good thing now? Or should we be more like China?

Get those points in for your side!


I didn't make environmental protection an issue of sides; conservatives did that all on their own. In a rational world, everyone would recognize why protecting air quality, etc is important. Unfortunately, the EPA, greenhouse gas regulations, automobile emissions standards, etc, are all targets of conservative ridicule.
 
2013-01-13 04:03:10 PM  

OgreMagi: Brontes: Anyone know what caused this particular bout of high levels?  Is this a particularly stagnant time of year for weather fronts that region or is it only going to get worse?

China is opening coal burning power plants at an alarming rate.  Plus, unlike the US, they don't enforce any environmental laws.  Also, even though they signed the Kyoto treaty, they are specifically categorized as a "developing nation", so don't have to adhere to any of those environmental laws.


Do you know if or when China will be considered a Developed nation? Who decides that designation?
 
2013-01-13 04:18:07 PM  

Coastalgrl: Do you know if or when China will be considered a Developed nation? Who decides that designation?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country

the more you know
 
2013-01-13 04:20:42 PM  
Developed countries have post-industrial economies, meaning the service sector provides more wealth than the industrial sector. They are contrasted with developing countries, which are in the process of industrialization, or undeveloped countries, which are pre-industrial and almost entirely agrarian. According to the International Monetary Fund, advanced economies comprise 65.8% of global nominal GDP and 52.1% of global GDP (PPP) in 2010.[2] In 2011, the ten largest advanced economies by either nominal GDP or GDP (PPP) are the United States, Japan, Germany, France, the United Kingdom, Italy, Canada, Spain, Republic of Korea, and Australia.[3][4]
 
2013-01-13 04:23:49 PM  
This is a pic i saw recently from thier new anime theme park :(

http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2013/january/GamingThemePa rk 18.jpg
 
2013-01-13 04:24:24 PM  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_I n dex

damn you so very much
now I am going to spend all day on wikipedia
again
 
2013-01-13 04:31:26 PM  
Remember, China is the world leader in green energy. Coal is only evil when it's used in the US
 
2013-01-13 04:32:47 PM  

penthesilea: China's air pollution can be seen from space. It's a huge thick blanket of gray brown asthma and cancer.


But they're going to keep making all of our inexpensive crap, right? Right???
 
2013-01-13 04:40:53 PM  
www.kickseat.com
The problem is, the flying cars all run on coal...
 
2013-01-13 04:41:57 PM  
farm4.staticflickr.com
A good day in Beijing
 
2013-01-13 04:42:31 PM  

penthesilea: China's air pollution can be seen from space. It's a huge thick blanket of gray brown asthma and cancer.


That's their missile defense system, they can't hit what they can't see.
 
2013-01-13 04:43:55 PM  

aegean: funny, all liberals want us to live like North Korea, Cuba and China.

Then, they blame capitalism and freedom for the problems in those countries, which are always horribly run.

Boy are liberals just retarded.


2/10. The extra point is because I lol'd.
 
2013-01-13 04:46:31 PM  

aegean: funny, all liberals want us to live like North Korea, Cuba and China.

Then, they blame capitalism and freedom for the problems in those countries, which are always horribly run.

Boy are liberals just retarded.


Why would "Liberals" want you to live like NK, Cuba, and China?

Here's a hint: You are so stupid just for positing that that I am not sure whether you can breathe unassisted.
 
2013-01-13 04:48:41 PM  

DesertDemonWY: Remember, China is the world leader in green energy. Coal is only evil when it's used in the US


Except you're too stupid to realize that your own link is about manufacturing (turbines and solar panels) faster than other nations. China is a giant factory, of course it churns out more product. This is a stupid, non-story, and one day you disingenuous farkers are going to realize that throwing shiat into a fan doesn't help you prove anything.
 
2013-01-13 04:53:15 PM  

insano: Any republitards in here want to describe the cognitive dissonance they feel when reading about this. Can we see why environmental protection laws might be a good thing now? Or should we be more like China?


You get right on that...maybe you should schedule a flight to meet with the Chinese government to discuss your grievances... This is why what we do in the US has only a minimal effect on the global environment.
 
2013-01-13 04:53:35 PM  

Plant Rights Activist: [chawedrosin.files.wordpress.com image 270x456]
fun to listen to


That's the one where Earth has been knocked into a farther orbit and the atmosphere condensed out and one isolated family is managing to survive in their bomb shelter, right? Good little story, X Minus One did a nice adaptation.
 
2013-01-13 04:56:18 PM  
So pretty much they're all going to die of cancer in 20 years or so? I guess that means we'll get some jobs back?
 
2013-01-13 04:57:31 PM  

bbcard1: insano: Any republitards in here want to describe the cognitive dissonance they feel when reading about this. Can we see why environmental protection laws might be a good thing now? Or should we be more like China?

You get right on that...maybe you should schedule a flight to meet with the Chinese government to discuss your grievances... This is why what we do in the US has only a minimal effect on the global environment.


The US did super-pollution first and best, and continues to reap the rewards of having done so.

I'm not saying the US is to blame for the world's pollution problem, because it's really not. However, the US is the most powerful nation in history, and has taken on a role of global leadership; you can't just abdicate that self-appointed position when it's inconvenient. The US has decided it must lead, so, lead. Show the world how to do it right, do it profitably, and do it in such a way that quality of life goes up for all involved.
 
2013-01-13 04:58:09 PM  

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: So pretty much they're all going to die of cancer in 20 years or so? I guess that means we'll get some jobs back?


How many iPhones can you assemble in 30 seconds?
 
2013-01-13 05:06:32 PM  
Now that everything says "Made in China" on it our air is cleaner and their air is dirtier. Go figure. Also it doesn't help that they open a new coal power plant every week there.
 
2013-01-13 05:11:01 PM  

Oznog: [www.kickseat.com image 850x294]
The problem is, the flying cars all run on coal...


It was an interesting flaw in the story.
You have power, science and tech for flying cars, but you still had stacks blowing off methane and massive pollution? I think not.

With enough clean power you could spend huge amounts of energy cleaning up the mess.
On the other hand, when do we need to start worrying about entropy?
 
2013-01-13 05:12:11 PM  
Yeah, you'll have to start paying more for your iPhone.... especially when I show up stoned, and can't be fired without a series of warnings and written violations that my union negotiates. If they're made in America, they'll be about $5000 each.

www.iphonbuzz.com
 
2013-01-13 05:12:41 PM  

namatad: OgreMagi: China is opening coal burning power plants at an alarming rate.  Plus, unlike the US, they don't enforce any environmental laws.  Also, even though they signed the Kyoto treaty, they are specifically categorized as a "developing nation", so don't have to adhere to any of those environmental laws.

My dad tells stories of growing up in Chicago back in the days of coal. (30s and 40s)
Coughing up coal dust. So we were there not that long ago, and China was frozen in place for 50 years by the revolution. I am sure that they will come around ... in 10-50 more years.

Kyoto Treaty? ROFL
What a worthless POS. China and India were exempt. China and India increased CO2 during the Treaty period by a larger amount than the total theoretical reduction if all other nations had complied. Unless we are going to include China and India, things will only continue to get "worse" at an increasing rate. And unless we are willing to force China and India to comply, why are we even pretending to reduce emissions?

/sorry, but reducing the increase by such a tiny amount has no effect in reality. your beliefs do not change reality.


In the 30's and 40's the technology didn't exists to filter emissions from plants. Today it does, but China isn't bothering to implement them.
 
2013-01-13 05:14:57 PM  
JACKIE CHAN SAY AIR IN CHINA BEST IN WORLD
 
2013-01-13 05:18:29 PM  

OgreMagi: namatad: OgreMagi: China is opening coal burning power plants at an alarming rate.  Plus, unlike the US, they don't enforce any environmental laws.  Also, even though they signed the Kyoto treaty, they are specifically categorized as a "developing nation", so don't have to adhere to any of those environmental laws.

My dad tells stories of growing up in Chicago back in the days of coal. (30s and 40s)
Coughing up coal dust. So we were there not that long ago, and China was frozen in place for 50 years by the revolution. I am sure that they will come around ... in 10-50 more years.

Kyoto Treaty? ROFL
What a worthless POS. China and India were exempt. China and India increased CO2 during the Treaty period by a larger amount than the total theoretical reduction if all other nations had complied. Unless we are going to include China and India, things will only continue to get "worse" at an increasing rate. And unless we are willing to force China and India to comply, why are we even pretending to reduce emissions?

/sorry, but reducing the increase by such a tiny amount has no effect in reality. your beliefs do not change reality.

Technically, China did comply with Kyoto.  Not one of the western nations met their treaty reduction requirements.  We did not sign the treaty because it set an impossible level for us to meet.  The treaty would best be described as, "let's destroy the U.S. economy".



That can't be right. A certain side keeps telling me that President Bush was history's greatest monster for not signing Kyoto.
 
2013-01-13 05:18:55 PM  

ongbok: In the 30's and 40's the technology didn't exists to filter emissions from plants. Today it does, but China isn't bothering to implement them.


of course the tech existed, it might have been cruder and more expensive, but filters/scrubbers are not rocket science. there was zero government oversight forcing them to do it.
The cost for china to do this would be tiny, plus it would probably create jobs and more exports for china.
But scrubbing has zero ROI unless the government fines you enough to more than cover the expense if you dont.
 
2013-01-13 05:25:05 PM  
Does that mean that next time some politician or patriotic 'merikun talks about taking out jerbs back from them yella chicoms I should point this article to them?
 
2013-01-13 05:33:16 PM  
I spent a week in Hong Kong a few years back. On my first day I spent about 5 hours just walking around the city. My lungs hurt for the next month - turned out that the pollution that day was something like triple their previous record, and there were warnings not to be outside. Lovely.
 
2013-01-13 05:33:53 PM  

RatMaster999: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 850x660]

Beijing of the future?

/obscure?


I don't think that Beijing will ever have a tank police.

Newport city's problem was a bacterial cloud, not a smog cloud.
 
2013-01-13 05:33:59 PM  

namatad: Oznog: [www.kickseat.com image 850x294]
The problem is, the flying cars all run on coal...

It was an interesting flaw in the story.
You have power, science and tech for flying cars, but you still had stacks blowing off methane and massive pollution? I think not.

With enough clean power you could spend huge amounts of energy cleaning up the mess.
On the other hand, when do we need to start worrying about entropy?


Basically, we have at least a trillion years, probably closer to a hundred trillion years.
 
2013-01-13 05:44:24 PM  
Anybody in Hong Kong willing to point their phone outside and take a pic for us?
 
2013-01-13 05:44:29 PM  
I took this picture a year before the Beijing Olympics. This was taken from a moving taxi on the highway. And this was in the heart of Beijing's massive pre-Olympics air-quality cleanup effort.

pallium.com
 
2013-01-13 05:46:06 PM  

LavenderWolf: Basically, we have at least a trillion years, probably closer to a hundred trillion years.


SURE, for the universe, but what about locally, like just on the planet.
I am thinking more of the Puppeteer Homeworld and the heat problems created when you have too many people and produce too much entropy via energy conversion/production/usage.
 
2013-01-13 05:49:34 PM  

aegean: funny, all liberals want us to live like North Korea, Cuba and China.

Then, they blame capitalism and freedom for the problems in those countries, which are always horribly run.

Boy are liberals just retarded.


WTF is this shiat?
 
2013-01-13 05:51:10 PM  
Beijing:

news.bbcimg.co.uk

Los Angeles:

img.timeinc.net
 
2013-01-13 06:00:51 PM  

FatherChaos: Beijing:

[news.bbcimg.co.uk image 464x261]

Los Angeles:

[img.timeinc.net image 360x235]


sure, but LA is completely DIFFERENT!!!
It is all cars!!!
:D
 
2013-01-13 06:09:40 PM  

Coastalgrl: OgreMagi: Brontes: Anyone know what caused this particular bout of high levels?  Is this a particularly stagnant time of year for weather fronts that region or is it only going to get worse?

China is opening coal burning power plants at an alarming rate.  Plus, unlike the US, they don't enforce any environmental laws.  Also, even though they signed the Kyoto treaty, they are specifically categorized as a "developing nation", so don't have to adhere to any of those environmental laws.

Do you know if or when China will be considered a Developed nation? Who decides that designation?


You don't get it - they do. The Chinese pretty much run the UN through their proxy, the US.
 
2013-01-13 06:25:14 PM  

namatad: Developed countries have post-industrial economies, meaning the service sector provides more wealth than the industrial sector. They are contrasted with developing countries, which are in the process of industrialization, or undeveloped countries, which are pre-industrial and almost entirely agrarian. According to the International Monetary Fund, advanced economies comprise 65.8% of global nominal GDP and 52.1% of global GDP (PPP) in 2010.[2] In 2011, the ten largest advanced economies by either nominal GDP or GDP (PPP) are the United States, Japan, Germany, France, the United Kingdom, Italy, Canada, Spain, Republic of Korea, and Australia.[3][4]


So developing countries make the plastic shiat that our economy is based on selling to each other.
 
2013-01-13 06:50:25 PM  
For all there is to dislike about some of the onerous and niche serving EPA rules, as a person who was alive and noticing in the 60's and 70's, the air is much better because of them.
 
2013-01-13 06:51:10 PM  

fluffy2097: RatMaster999: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 850x660]

Beijing of the future?

/obscure?

I don't think that Beijing will ever have a tank police.

Newport city's problem was a bacterial cloud, not a smog cloud.


i789.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-13 06:51:47 PM  

Allen. The end.: B-b-but capitalism!


Derp
 
2013-01-13 06:53:55 PM  

Raharu: Don't worry, the invisible hand of the free market will take care of this.


Double derp
 
2013-01-13 06:56:09 PM  

middlewaytao: Allen. The end.: B-b-but capitalism!

Outsourcing pollution to avoid local standards is a huge part of capitalist globalization.


You can outsource coal plants?
 
2013-01-13 06:56:33 PM  

SuperNinjaToad: Every developing nation goes through this cycle. It is unavoidable. The US and many other developed nations today are not immune to it themselves. Just that many of the younger ones have either forgotten or have not witness it first hand. Just like the US, China will one day realized the negative price of capitalism and development and get their environment under control. Of course by then the avg Chinese will be biatching about how or why countries like Indonesia, Philipines, Brazil etc are getting the environment into shait not ever realizing their's was not too dissimilar just a couple decades earlier.


Oh, they realize it already. It is part of the plan; first pollute and make money, clean up afterwards. China is doing what the West has done as well, only condensed in a much shorter period.

I've seen a lot of improvement in my city during the 5 years I was in China in terms of pollution. In my first years, I think there were 5 blue sky days a year, last year there were at least a few each month. Still horrible, but improving.

Already the goals that China is setting for itself in terms of reliance on alternative fuel is higher than in the west. While in indeed coal plants are built like crazy, they are also building the largest hydro-, solar and wind plants in the world.
 
2013-01-13 07:03:32 PM  
But exempting China from an global warm.. I'm sorry "climate change" treaty made perfect sense and had nothing what so ever to do with wanting to cripple specific economies in exchange for a fractional decrease in the amount of global warm.. er.. "climate change" and that's assuming that the alarmists were right.
 
2013-01-13 07:04:56 PM  

insano: Any republitards in here want to describe the cognitive dissonance they feel when reading about this. Can we see why environmental protection laws might be a good thing now? Or should we be more like China?


Republicans are against environmental regulations?
 
2013-01-13 07:07:36 PM  
i.imgur.com
View from my office window this morning. This is what people in China wake up to every day...
 
2013-01-13 07:23:38 PM  

Spirit Hammer: For all there is to dislike about some of the onerous and niche serving EPA rules, as a person who was alive and noticing in the 60's and 70's, the air is much better because of them.


Yep. I remember when Lake Erie used to catch fire every so often. Haven't heard about that in many years. Also never hear about the "brown cloud" that used to hover over Denver every winter.
 
2013-01-13 07:24:46 PM  

FatherChaos: Beijing:

Los Angeles:


30 years ago.
 
2013-01-13 07:28:17 PM  

whatshisname: The good news is you can still get stuff cheap at Wal-mart


THIS ...
 
2013-01-13 07:28:22 PM  
[shrug]

China has no particular need to adhere to GLOBAL standards when it has no national standards of its own. And it has no national standards because the government does not need to be responsive to the people's needs in the same way Western governments do. China is just a big corporation, if you want to look at it that way, and what it cares about is making product. As with any corporation, the bottom line is making their product cheaply enough to sell at a profit. Regulations that increase the cost of manufacture are only enacted if they can be done without hurting the profit margin.

So scolding China for hurting their people's health, or impacting the world environment is about as effective as scolding BP for harming sea turtles or fouling the beaches with oil runoff. They just don't care, because the people, or the sea turtles, don't buy their product. What needs to happen is for the world to hit China where they'll notice, in this case in the pocketbook. Start tying tariffs to China's air pollution levels: create a surtax for every ppb their air is above "unhealthful" for instance, or give price breaks to goods produced in areas with measurably lower levels of air pollution over a given period.

If the EU or America made it clear China can do what it wants with the air but it won't have a market for its exports if they keep polluting, there would be some action in China.
 
2013-01-13 07:28:25 PM  

bbcard1: This is why what we do in the US has only a minimal effect on the global environment.


Congratulations, this is the stupidest thing I've read today.
 
2013-01-13 07:32:21 PM  

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: Yeah, you'll have to start paying more for your iPhone.... especially when I show up stoned, and can't be fired without a series of warnings and written violations that my union negotiates. If they're made in America, they'll be about $5000 each.

[www.iphonbuzz.com image 580x486]


Bull. Jobs himself said labour would only add maybe 40 bucks to the cost.

The real reason they're not made here is there's no supply chain.

The reason for that is companies that saved the aforementioned relatively miniscule costs by outsourcing everything.

Presidents only watched over the destruction of America's economy. CEOs actually presided over it.
 
2013-01-13 07:35:36 PM  

CruiserTwelve: Spirit Hammer: For all there is to dislike about some of the onerous and niche serving EPA rules, as a person who was alive and noticing in the 60's and 70's, the air is much better because of them.

Yep. I remember when Lake Erie used to catch fire every so often. Haven't heard about that in many years. Also never hear about the "brown cloud" that used to hover over Denver every winter.


As a child, I lived in a neighborhood that was a mile and a half from "the see-ment plant".
The dust that settled from there would absolutely destroy car finishes.
I remember it was a constant topic of conversation among the grownups; how to clean that stuff from cars or fix the damage. Dudes would wash their cars at dawn every day, and discuss using vinegar to cut it.
Eventually the plant (Penn Dixie?) was forced to install "electrostatic precipitators" and the problem went away.
Shortly after, Penn Dixie went bankrupt and closed down.
So everything was cool.
 
2013-01-13 07:41:26 PM  
www.boingboing.net
What a block of air might look like.
 
2013-01-13 07:44:09 PM  

insano: Any republitards in here want to describe the cognitive dissonance they feel when reading about this. Can we see why environmental protection laws might be a good thing now? Or should we be more like China?


I would but one would have to ask nicely, not rude like this person was. I only discuss political philosophy with rational adults, not petulant children.
 
2013-01-13 07:59:36 PM  
@Krug9999

That is Aerogel and it is the best insulator available today, able to insulate you from an propane blowtorch, and while probably not a recommended daily dietary substance, is completely edible, and is actually 95% air, IIRC.
http://www.gizmag.com/polymer-aerogel-stronger-flexible-nasa/23955/
 
2013-01-13 08:21:21 PM  

OgreMagi: Brontes: Anyone know what caused this particular bout of high levels?  Is this a particularly stagnant time of year for weather fronts that region or is it only going to get worse?

China is opening coal burning power plants at an alarming rate.  Plus, unlike the US, they don't enforce any environmental laws.  Also, even though they signed the Kyoto treaty, they are specifically categorized as a "developing nation", so don't have to adhere to any of those environmental laws.



The joke's on them.

All that new wealth won't mean jack when 80 percent of the population has cancer in 10 years.
 
2013-01-13 08:24:27 PM  

krug9999: [www.boingboing.net image 300x243]
What a block of air might look like.


Nice one!

CruiserTwelve: Yep. I remember when Lake Erie used to catch fire every so often. Haven't heard about that in many years. Also never hear about the "brown cloud" that used to hover over Denver every winter.


Erie? hmmmmmmm citation? I knew a river or two did that but not the lake.
Although Swill !!
 
2013-01-13 08:27:21 PM  

ZzeusS: OgreMagi: Brontes: Anyone know what caused this particular bout of high levels?  Is this a particularly stagnant time of year for weather fronts that region or is it only going to get worse?

China is opening coal burning power plants at an alarming rate.  Plus, unlike the US, they don't enforce any environmental laws.  Also, even though they signed the Kyoto treaty, they are specifically categorized as a "developing nation", so don't have to adhere to any of those environmental laws.


The joke's on them.

All that new wealth won't mean jack when 80 percent of the population has cancer in 10 years.


that's part of the plan. population reduction. duh. stop complaining.
 
2013-01-13 08:41:01 PM  

some_beer_drinker: ZzeusS: OgreMagi: Brontes: Anyone know what caused this particular bout of high levels?  Is this a particularly stagnant time of year for weather fronts that region or is it only going to get worse?

China is opening coal burning power plants at an alarming rate.  Plus, unlike the US, they don't enforce any environmental laws.  Also, even though they signed the Kyoto treaty, they are specifically categorized as a "developing nation", so don't have to adhere to any of those environmental laws.


The joke's on them.

All that new wealth won't mean jack when 80 percent of the population has cancer in 10 years.

that's part of the plan. population reduction. duh. stop complaining.



Oh. Well, carry on then.
 
2013-01-13 08:42:28 PM  

namatad: LavenderWolf: Basically, we have at least a trillion years, probably closer to a hundred trillion years.

SURE, for the universe, but what about locally, like just on the planet.
I am thinking more of the Puppeteer Homeworld and the heat problems created when you have too many people and produce too much entropy via energy conversion/production/usage.


We have this thing called the sun, it provides us with energy. Entropy itself is just a measure of disorder and not a thing to worry about in itself.

However life on earth probably only has 800 million years left anyway, as the suns output is likely to increase enough in that time to the extent that it will be too hot for liquid water to exist on the earth's surface.
 
2013-01-13 09:07:19 PM  

namatad: OgreMagi: China is opening coal burning power plants at an alarming rate.  Plus, unlike the US, they don't enforce any environmental laws.  Also, even though they signed the Kyoto treaty, they are specifically categorized as a "developing nation", so don't have to adhere to any of those environmental laws.

My dad tells stories of growing up in Chicago back in the days of coal. (30s and 40s)
Coughing up coal dust. So we were there not that long ago, and China was frozen in place for 50 years by the revolution. I am sure that they will come around ... in 10-50 more years.

Kyoto Treaty? ROFL
What a worthless POS. China and India were exempt. China and India increased CO2 during the Treaty period by a larger amount than the total theoretical reduction if all other nations had complied. Unless we are going to include China and India, things will only continue to get "worse" at an increasing rate. And unless we are willing to force China and India to comply, why are we even pretending to reduce emissions?

/sorry, but reducing the increase by such a tiny amount has no effect in reality. your beliefs do not change reality.


This part of why Kyoto is irrelevant even if you think we should sign it.
Denial of this shortcoming is proof that some of the AGW supporters who keep pushing it are either suffering from delusions (China will imitate our example and cripple their manufacturing?) or are cynically using Kyoto as a symbolic political wedge.
 
2013-01-13 09:14:33 PM  

Raharu: Don't worry, the invisible hand of the free market will take care of this.


Yeah, that amazing free market in China.
 
2013-01-13 09:19:22 PM  

penthesilea: China's air pollution can be seen from space. It's a huge thick blanket of gray brown asthma and cancer.


Usually that's called a miasma.
 
2013-01-13 09:23:54 PM  

Spirit Hammer: For all there is to dislike about some of the onerous and niche serving EPA rules, as a person who was alive and noticing in the 60's and 70's, the air is much better because of them.


Hear (hack hack cough) Hear!
 
2013-01-13 09:29:29 PM  

OgreMagi: We did not sign the treaty because it set an impossible level for us to meet. The treaty would best be described as, "let's destroy the U.S. economy".


It could have been done through a combination of nuclear, methane and solar.  Cost would have really depended on economies of scale, tax credits and handling of liabilities, but worst case scenarios weren't economically destructive.
 
2013-01-13 09:36:46 PM  

Dinjiin: OgreMagi: We did not sign the treaty because it set an impossible level for us to meet. The treaty would best be described as, "let's destroy the U.S. economy".

It could have been done through a combination of nuclear, methane and solar.  Cost would have really depended on economies of scale, tax credits and handling of liabilities, but worst case scenarios weren't economically destructive.


It could not have been done based on your suggestions.  Nuclear wouldn't get approved.  Solar is simply not efficient enough (yet) and the bankruptcy of numerous solar energy businesses recently shows it isn't a viable investment, either.   Let's hope the technology keeps improving long enough to make this useful.  Methane would take many years to get going as a viable option.  Doesn't mean we shouldn't try, just means we can't expect much in the way of results in the short term.

What is working right now, though, is natural gas.  More and more coal plants are being converted to natural gas because of the much lower cost and major reduction in emissions.  Guess where that low cost natural gas is coming from?   Fraking.  The U.S. has the largest reduction of carbon emissions in the world as a result of fraking.
 
2013-01-13 09:46:39 PM  

OgreMagi: Dinjiin: OgreMagi:   Guess where that low cost natural gas is coming from?   Fraking.  The U.S. has the largest reduction of carbon emissions in the world as a result of fraking.


Wait, NO!
Fraking is the Devil!
It makes small farms burst into flames, and poisons school children!
Away with your devil technology!
 
2013-01-13 09:50:22 PM  
namatad:  Erie? hmmmmmmm citation? I knew a river or two did that but not the lake. Although Swill !!

It was actually the Cuyahoga river that flows into Lake Erie that caught fire in 1969. Lake Erie was known for its polluted waters though.
 
2013-01-13 10:13:02 PM  
Obama = commie = China = lung cancer
 
2013-01-13 10:18:53 PM  

OgreMagi: It could not have been done based on your suggestions.


For traditional nuclear, I agree.  The approval process is too slow and there is too much litigation.  Not to mention the huge cost of building the grid infrastructure to support it.  What is quickly becoming cost effective are micro reactors such as Toshiba-Westinghouse 4S.  Manufactured and fueled at a factory, they're shipped to their final destination.  30 years later, the module is yanked from the ground and shipped back to the factory for recycling.  The USNRC is looking to have a special class for micro reactors such as the 4S and the upcoming TerraPower TWR which will heavily reduce costs.

For traditional photovoltaic solar, I also agree.  However, solar thermal water heaters are cost effective today.  Every structure in the sun belt should be using a solar heater for potable water pre-heating.  It can also be used to assist with in-floor radiant heat.  Several companies have even developed liquid salt "batteries" that can store up to a week's worth of heat for day+night assist.

And methane shouldn't just be limited to structural heating and power generation.  Several states are looking at LNG for freight trucks in order to reduce particulate pollution.  As an added bonus, the boil off at LNG fueling stations can be used for CNG vehicles.  Reduced CO2, NO and NO2 emissions are an added benefit.
 
2013-01-13 10:35:58 PM  

Allen. The end.: B-b-but capitalism!


Please, please please be that you are being sarcastic. My last remaining fragile quivering shard of faith in humanity would shrivel if you were serious. Actually, I would then be forced to believe in true miracles - that someone so abysmally stupid as to seriously believe that China has a Capitalist system had the intelligence to type the words on a keyboard (or even recognize a keyboard).
 
2013-01-13 11:06:21 PM  

wildcardjack: Plant Rights Activist: [chawedrosin.files.wordpress.com image 270x456]
fun to listen to

That's the one where Earth has been knocked into a farther orbit and the atmosphere condensed out and one isolated family is managing to survive in their bomb shelter, right? Good little story, X Minus One did a nice adaptation.


I read this decades ago, but as I recall the father, a physicist, realized what was happening and took over a panic-abandoned government depot that had tens of thousands upon thousands of army blankets. He created an air-tight nest in the middle of one of the floors by layering blankets soaked in water, and creating a horizontal "S" entry/exit normally blocked with a wall of more wetted blankets. As the temperature dropped the blankets froze solid, and more water was added to form a solid shell a dozen or so feet think around an small open area in the center, where the family survived. The father or son would occasionally have to go out and get a pail of air from the precipitated oxygen layer.

The genius of the story was the ability to survive "the end of the world" and freezing vacuum using only everyday items.
 
2013-01-13 11:09:07 PM  

LavenderWolf: bbcard1: insano: Any republitards in here want to describe the cognitive dissonance they feel when reading about this. Can we see why environmental protection laws might be a good thing now? Or should we be more like China?

You get right on that...maybe you should schedule a flight to meet with the Chinese government to discuss your grievances... This is why what we do in the US has only a minimal effect on the global environment.

The US did super-pollution first and best, and continues to reap the rewards of having done so.

I'm not saying the US is to blame for the world's pollution problem, because it's really not. However, the US is the most powerful nation in history, and has taken on a role of global leadership; you can't just abdicate that self-appointed position when it's inconvenient. The US has decided it must lead, so, lead. Show the world how to do it right, do it profitably, and do it in such a way that quality of life goes up for all involved.


We must threaten the Chinese with Global Thermonuclear War and demand that they stop polluting Mother Gaia. Same for India. How DARE these 3rd World hellholes pollute! the Environment and AGW are Holy Causes that will require sacrifice and striving! ONWARD! FOR THE ENVIRONMENT!
 
2013-01-13 11:14:42 PM  
If only China would get rid of its burdensome environmental regulations, this wouldn't be a problem.
 
2013-01-13 11:51:50 PM  

Gothnet: namatad: LavenderWolf: Basically, we have at least a trillion years, probably closer to a hundred trillion years.

SURE, for the universe, but what about locally, like just on the planet.
I am thinking more of the Puppeteer Homeworld and the heat problems created when you have too many people and produce too much entropy via energy conversion/production/usage.

We have this thing called the sun, it provides us with energy. Entropy itself is just a measure of disorder and not a thing to worry about in itself.

However life on earth probably only has 800 million years left anyway, as the suns output is likely to increase enough in that time to the extent that it will be too hot for liquid water to exist on the earth's surface.


If we last 800 million years, I figure that by then we'll be able to send a few large asteroids on close flybys of Earth over a series of thousands of years, doing reverse-gravity assists to add momentum to the Earth in order to slowly increase the Earth's orbital diameter. It'd be tricky to get the math right so that you precisely move with the expansion of the sun and keep the Earth in the new Goldilocks zone AND don't disrupt the Moon's orbit too much in the process, but I'm betting the tech pull off that kind of solar system engineering could be attainable within a few thousand years. Combine that with terraforming tech to further moderate temps, Earth of the far future could probably ride out a lot of the end of the Sun with the help of whatever humanity has become, assuming we haven't destroyed ourselves, left for younger stars, or backslid into savagery.
 
2013-01-14 12:46:59 AM  

aegean: Boy are liberals just retarded.


If it weren't for the liberals, the old lead smelter near my friends house would be a) still running. b) not entombed under 10 feet of clay.
 
2013-01-14 01:52:16 AM  
Did anyone else read the most popular side story Puppy Thrown at German Biker Gang?

Some guy runs up to a bunch of Hell's Angels in his underwear and throws a live puppy at them, moons them and then steals a bulldozer from a construction site to get away in, riding at 5KM/Hr.
 
2013-01-14 07:03:48 AM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: wildcardjack: Plant Rights Activist: [chawedrosin.files.wordpress.com image 270x456]
fun to listen to

That's the one where Earth has been knocked into a farther orbit and the atmosphere condensed out and one isolated family is managing to survive in their bomb shelter, right? Good little story, X Minus One did a nice adaptation.

I read this decades ago, but as I recall the father, a physicist, realized what was happening and took over a panic-abandoned government depot that had tens of thousands upon thousands of army blankets. He created an air-tight nest in the middle of one of the floors by layering blankets soaked in water, and creating a horizontal "S" entry/exit normally blocked with a wall of more wetted blankets. As the temperature dropped the blankets froze solid, and more water was added to form a solid shell a dozen or so feet think around an small open area in the center, where the family survived. The father or son would occasionally have to go out and get a pail of air from the precipitated oxygen layer.

The genius of the story was the ability to survive "the end of the world" and freezing vacuum using only everyday items.


I have such vivid memories of this story. Was this ever a "Twilight Zone" episode or a movie?
Or do I remember stories I read as a young teen as a movie
 
2013-01-14 07:38:22 AM  

namatad: LavenderWolf: Basically, we have at least a trillion years, probably closer to a hundred trillion years.

SURE, for the universe, but what about locally, like just on the planet.
I am thinking more of the Puppeteer Homeworld and the heat problems created when you have too many people and produce too much entropy via energy conversion/production/usage.


In roughly 5 billion years, the Sun will be 250x larger, and 5000x brighter. If you're worried about this planet, entropy isn't a concern whatsoever.
 
2013-01-14 10:05:48 AM  
Free market unregulated capitalism at work
 
2013-01-14 10:53:25 AM  

Reverend Monkeypants: Free market unregulated capitalism at work


It's fascism, actually.
 
2013-01-14 11:10:01 AM  

penthesilea: China's air pollution can be seen from space. It's a huge thick blanket of gray brown asthma and cancer.


A lot of shiat can be seen from space. The Hudson river can be seen from space. Doesn't mean it's all polluted just because it's visable.
 
2013-01-14 12:36:45 PM  

MythDragon: penthesilea: China's air pollution can be seen from space. It's a huge thick blanket of gray brown asthma and cancer.

A lot of shiat can be seen from space. The Hudson river can be seen from space. Doesn't mean it's all polluted just because it's visable.


I wouldn't advise breathing the Hudson river either.  Lungs don't do well with most solids or liquids.
 
2013-01-14 01:25:14 PM  

penthesilea: MythDragon: penthesilea: China's air pollution can be seen from space. It's a huge thick blanket of gray brown asthma and cancer.

A lot of shiat can be seen from space. The Hudson river can be seen from space. Doesn't mean it's all polluted just because it's visable.

I wouldn't advise breathing the Hudson river either.  Lungs don't do well with most solids or liquids.


3.bp.blogspot.com

/I don't have a smart answer for 'solids' though...
 
2013-01-14 01:59:07 PM  

MythDragon: penthesilea: MythDragon: penthesilea: China's air pollution can be seen from space. It's a huge thick blanket of gray brown asthma and cancer.

A lot of shiat can be seen from space. The Hudson river can be seen from space. Doesn't mean it's all polluted just because it's visable.

I wouldn't advise breathing the Hudson river either.  Lungs don't do well with most solids or liquids.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 850x386]

/I don't have a smart answer for 'solids' though...


I expected that pic to get posted.  I did say most.  ; )
 
2013-01-14 02:22:28 PM  
At least they are not suppressing the economy, right?
 
2013-01-14 02:48:59 PM  

penthesilea: I expected that pic to get posted. I did say most. ; )


I had to ignore that part to be a smartass.

/theoreticaly, I imagine LOX would work as well. If you didn't mind the cold...
 
2013-01-15 01:36:47 AM  

Wangiss: Reverend Monkeypants: Free market unregulated capitalism at work

It's fascism, actually.


The motivation isn't wealth?
 
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