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(NBC Washington)   Rash of robberies involving guns reported in Washington DC. If only there were some sort of laws in our nation's capital that could prevent this sort of thing   (nbcwashington.com) divider line 28
    More: Obvious, robbery, Washington DC, Sheen Estevez, 6th street  
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1060 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Jan 2013 at 11:46 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-01-13 08:38:45 AM
5 votes:
OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.
2013-01-13 05:26:12 PM
4 votes:

carpbrain: FNS . . . I've read the polls that show (bizarrely, in my view) that Americans are still in favor of mostly arbitrary gun ownership . . . I'm sure you know that the US is a huge outlier among civilized nations in this respect . . . still trying to get my head around the problem. I thought that Michael Moore's film Bowling for Columbine http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310793/ was relatively insightful. That was a long time ago, and the discussion has not seemed to have moved much since then. Appreciative of any clever insights on the gun issue.


Decibel levels.

The US media can't sell their "journalistic, infotainment-like Art Product" from nuance and rational discussion. They require binary decisions in their endless quest to pander to the lowest common denominator. To that end, the media tends to ignore anyone who might be willing to compromise or who may have a moderate proposal both sides may find interesting. The only people who get air time are those who worship their weapons and those who are pathologically convinced that firearms are somehow manipulating everyone who sees one into becoming a ravening monster bent on slaughter. Since these two groups may be reliably counted upon to deliver sound bites during the six o'clock news, they are presented to the public in general as the only options.

It doesn't help matters that people who might not necessarily be raving gun-grabbers are fond of espousing legislation based on the vaguest understandings of how firearms work, resulting in laws that fail to accomplish anything useful. Opposite these people are the not-necessarily-rabid people who see any attempt to control the sale or possession of firearms as a plot to disarm law-abiding firearms owners. These sort of nuanced differences of opinion could possibly be subject to compromise, were it not for the fanatics at either extreme dominating the public discussion.

When someone who wants to propose legislation adding impediments to civilian firearms ownership, firearms enthusiasts generally start objecting immediately to the terminology used. Poorly-worded legislation is unlikely to accomplish anything more than enraging tens of millions of law-abiding firearms owners, and Congress has a history of passing exactly this sort of law. Many firearms owners would be amenable to honest discussion of the issue, but feel that they're being lied to by people who want to impose more controls on firearms ownership. Most of the vitriol is (IMO) the result of neither side understanding what language the other is speaking. Firearms enthusiasts feel like they're being punished for something they didn't do by people who refuse to learn anything about the weapons they wish to control. Those opposed to civilian firearms ownership are often honestly bewildered by the reaction of firearms enthusiasts to their proposed controls.

Because neither side understands the others' language.

/YMMV
//Not opposed to debate on gun control
///Opposed to feel-good but worthless legislation
2013-01-13 12:13:06 PM
4 votes:
2013-01-13 10:39:11 AM
4 votes:
Since gun laws do not ELIMINATE crime, we shouldn't have any more gun laws.
Since cutting defense spending won't ELIMINATE the debt, we shouldn't cut defense spending.
Since abortion laws don't ELIMINATE... ummmm wait, what? MOAR abotion laws!
2013-01-13 12:33:00 PM
3 votes:
I hate to break it to you guys, but the restrictive laws in D.C. have kind of worked. See link

Crime is only a quarter of what it was in the mid-90s when those laws appeared.
2013-01-13 12:04:34 PM
3 votes:
How about we make it difficult for people who have a history of crime or mental illness to legally obtain firearms and make the penalties for selling firearms illegally harsher than the penalties for selling pot? Nothing of course can eliminate gun crimes but that doesn't mean we should at least try.
2013-01-13 11:30:06 AM
3 votes:

NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.


"But officer, I'm only driving through to go hunting 3 counties over"

"Doesn't matter. THIS county has a law saying all ammunition must be kept separate from firearms when transporting. You have your shotgun shells in the same case as your gun. You're going to jail for life"

Awesome law, NewportBarGuy.
2013-01-13 01:17:23 PM
2 votes:

pueblonative: Giltric: Empty Matchbook: Peter von Nostrand: Hahahaha. Too funny subs. Everyone knows violence is due to video games and Hollywood. Saint LaPierre said so himself

Seeing as how he hasn't been drummed out of the NRA, I can only assume a majority of their members agree!
Video Games are violent, especially the first person shooters that advertise their games being as real as it gets without actually dying....and that also promote killing more and more people in order to unlock or gain access to higher powered in game weapons to kill more and more people with..they even employ behavioral specialist to design mechanics that keep people playing.....do you disagree?

Tell you what, the moment you take a kid who's only experience with guns is pushing buttons on a controller during CoD 3, take him out to the gun range, hand him a weapon shown in that video game, and have him score perfect bullseyes time after time, I'll listen to that argument.


Or even have him deal with the pain in the ass of hauling around ammunition, loading magazines, recoil, not unlocking new things with simple button pushes, and not having a dozen friends on voice chat while he does it.

If video games cause violent behavior, we'd be seeing more savagery than a full on Viking raid every day because everyone I know, including girls, plays violent video games at least sometimes.
2013-01-13 01:11:13 PM
2 votes:

Giltric: Empty Matchbook: Peter von Nostrand: Hahahaha. Too funny subs. Everyone knows violence is due to video games and Hollywood. Saint LaPierre said so himself

Seeing as how he hasn't been drummed out of the NRA, I can only assume a majority of their members agree!
Video Games are violent, especially the first person shooters that advertise their games being as real as it gets without actually dying....and that also promote killing more and more people in order to unlock or gain access to higher powered in game weapons to kill more and more people with..they even employ behavioral specialist to design mechanics that keep people playing.....do you disagree?


Tell you what, the moment you take a kid who's only experience with guns is pushing buttons on a controller during CoD 3, take him out to the gun range, hand him a weapon shown in that video game, and have him score perfect bullseyes time after time, I'll listen to that argument.
2013-01-13 12:24:35 PM
2 votes:

Yakk: PDid: Good stuff from the Washington post. Red states provide crime guns to Blue states


[i.imgur.com image 850x556]

Nonsense, criminals are born with guns, only law abiding citizens purchase them.


Its almost as if a patchwork system of random halfassed laws and varying levels of enforcement and oversight will fail by default from its own confusion allowing everyone to point their fingers and say "see gun control doesn't work" thereby preventing a central regulatory effort to control gun sales instead of the aforementioned patchwork of city, county, state, federal laws that work together to do absolutely nothing to prevent anyone who wants to get a gun from doing so. Almost....
2013-01-13 11:57:27 AM
2 votes:
The easier it is to get guns, the fewer crimes will be committed with guns! There are people who actually believe this.

I enjoy shooting, but I'm so f*cking sick of "gun people".
2013-01-13 10:37:00 AM
2 votes:

NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.


If you have gun, you'd be an idiot surrender under those conditions wouldn't you.
2013-01-13 10:14:23 AM
2 votes:
So you're saying that robbery should be legal?
2013-01-13 09:15:29 PM
1 votes:

Vegan Meat Popsicle: way south: A focus on firearms doesn't give anyone the results they want

No shiat, sherlock. Since it's a multi-faceted problem, a focus on any one thing won't fix it. But as a multi-faceted problem, you need to look at all facets, and one facet of EVERY gun crime is the fact that the asshole got hold of a gun.


It is also a fact that a most gun owners, the people you persist in trying to regulate at every opportunity, are defensive buyers.
Crooks aren't running that eleven billion dollar gun industry. Its the good guys that do most of the buying.
On the slim chance you'll stop one bad guy from getting a gun, you would attack millions of good guys.

The majority of gun owners, just as the majority of the population, are not criminals. They want to protect themselves.
They want security from the same tools used by cops and politicians to secure their own homes.
Guns follow crime, they don't cause it. Gun ownership and shootings are a symptom of a larger disease that is rooted in violence and fear.

Lets just be clear that people don't want to be robbed and stabbed more often then told that this is an improvement.
They want less crime. If you fail at delivering that they'll take matters into their own hands.

You are then behaving like a priest who rages when someone points out that antibiotics work better than prayer.
You deride their abuse of drugs and then You say you want a multifaceted solution... one that includes more facets of prayer.

Others know what works and they'll continue to do it no matter what you say.
The best course of action here is to either learn from your mistakes or get out of the way of those who have.

If you want to reduce the number of guns, you deal with the crime first.
2013-01-13 03:03:49 PM
1 votes:
If you want a "conversation" about gun laws and crime, than the place we need to start with is our obscenely stupid instant background check system.

For those of you who don't know, when you go to buy a gun, this is what happens:
- You walk into a gun store and pick a gun.
- You fill out a federal form with your name, address, SSN, race and a bunch of Yes/No questions (are you a criminal, are you mentally ill, did you surrender your US citizenship). You answer Yes to the first one, and No to all the others and sign.
- They call (or now, use a website) and run your name through NICS, which is basically a lightweight PASS/FAIL version of the FBI national criminal database.
- You pay for your gun and you walk out the door. Some states have a waiting period.

That's it.

This system is monumentally stupid for a whole host of reasons.

1- The most germane reason in regards to DC crime; all you do to get around it is send in a friend with a clean criminal record who buys the gun for you. A so-called "straw purchase."

2- The NICS system doesn't look at local criminal records or police databases. This is where your going to find police contact due to mental illness, drug use or domestic violence. Only fully sorted court convictions show up in NICS. If the police have been at your address 4 times in the last year for various calls, the system needs to be able to ask that and it would be totally appropriate to have someone from law enforcement look into it a bit more and ask you what's up before you purchase a gun.

3- The gatekeepers of the system are gun retailers. Most gun dealers are businesses on the up and up, for no other reason than dealing with the BATF just scares the bejesus out of them. Even so, there are clearly firearm dealers that are a nexus for straw purchases, likely because they are doing a piss poor job or even flagrantly violating the law.

We already have all the infrastructure required to solve this problem. 48 states have concealed weapons license systems that include through national, state and local background checks, including running the buyer's name through the local police information databases. Those checks are conducted by the sheriff's department, who has the capability to follow up with a license application with an interview or more through investigation if any flags are found.

The solution is simple; harmonize CCW laws across the country by setting minimal standards for all states that includes classroom training, range time, and education about gun safety and secure storage (with a new emphasis on securing firearms from family members). Require this license to buy a gun, go to a public range, receive a hunting license or purchase ammo. Ditch the NICS system and simply have gun stores call in the license to make sure it is currently valid and has no holds.

This system would:

- Eliminate straw purchases.
- Ensure a minimum level of education and experience amongst gun owners.
- Give the police a tool to cross check domestic violence, drug use and mental health against addresses of gun owners.
- Provide significantly more meaningful and secure background checks.

Of course, nobody is talking about doing this. Democrats are in too deep a fit of hysteria and the Republicans are too stupid that their ability to breath is surprising. The NRA has turned into an entrenched organization of Fudds who won't move an inch, mostly because the Democrats have given them all the reason not to be trusted.

This whole gun debate thing is a farce.
2013-01-13 02:01:05 PM
1 votes:
NewportBarGuy OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is



someone post the "I'm OK with this" kid.

yeah. Great idea no doubt.

Too bad it can NEVER happen.

The "War on Drugs" is pretty much the primary reason.

Our law enforcement. Our prosecuting attys,DAs,courts prioritize drug convictions. Our jails are over-stuffed to the brim with folks guilty of possessing/selling this "evil" green leaf.

As long as our society concentrates its money and effort on railroading millions and millions of citizens for victimless crimes...the violent predators will prevail.
2013-01-13 01:52:25 PM
1 votes:

SharkInfested: Gosh, as a resident of the District of Columbia, it's just too bad that the Federal tax paying citizens who reside here didn't overwhelming vote not to allow guns here, only to have our will ignored. One would think we had no actual representation!

Waiting for the one teabagger who spouts off about taxation to take up the cause of those of us who are actually taxed without representation


The constitution trumped you like it did sodomy laws in Texas, and like it should re: gay marriage ban in California.
2013-01-13 01:49:54 PM
1 votes:

Holocaust Agnostic: The ONLY thing that has changed is that our entertainments have gotten more violent more realistic and somewhat interactive.


And yet violent crime rates continue to DROP. How can video games be causing crime if the rates since their inception get lower each year?
2013-01-13 12:32:39 PM
1 votes:
No law works because some people break them! It's refreshing to see how many gun nuts are also anarchists.
2013-01-13 12:32:04 PM
1 votes:

Frank N Stein: Lochsteppe: Frank N Stein: NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.

"But officer, I'm only driving through to go hunting 3 counties over"

"Doesn't matter. THIS county has a law saying all ammunition must be kept separate from firearms when transporting. You have your shotgun shells in the same case as your gun. You're going to jail for life"

Awesome law, NewportBarGuy.

I've always been told that responsible gun owners will voluntarily and proactively research the gun laws of whatever area they're traveling to or through, in order to be sure that they're compliant and respectful. Clearly your fantasy scenario couldn't happen to a responsible gun owner.

So let me get this straight: Because you've been told that gun owners will research gun laws of where they are going, you essentially expect perfection in analysis of the often vague and confusing local laws (and expect them to stake their livelihood on it) even though you, yourself, probably unknowingly break minor laws on a daily basis?


The claim of super-responsible behavior by gun owners is a key component when people argue against improving gun laws. I've seen this claim in many Fark threads as well as from industry lobbyists and gun-rights groups. I haven't made any claims to being super-responsible myself, so my "unknowingly break[ing] minor laws" is irrelevant and a tiny adorable strawman. I can guarantee that I'm in no personal danger of breaking any gun laws, unless they extend to WoW characters.

/My hunter uses a bow now anyway.
2013-01-13 12:21:01 PM
1 votes:
Perhaps DC should allow concealed carry?
2013-01-13 12:01:24 PM
1 votes:

Wooly Bully: The easier it is to get guns, the fewer crimes will be committed with guns! There are people who actually believe this.

I enjoy shooting, but I'm so f*cking sick of "gun people".


Guns are ALREADY saturated.

That ship sailed in 1776. Any criminal who wants a gun in America has a gun already.

Increasing regulations will just make the felony of having an illegal gun more of a felony. Pointless.
2013-01-13 11:59:58 AM
1 votes:
There's a law against rashes?
2013-01-13 11:57:28 AM
1 votes:
Since only criminals commit crimes, let's make it illegal to be a criminal.

I may have just divided by potato.
2013-01-13 11:08:27 AM
1 votes:

NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.



FTFY.

That'll make 'em behave!


/Slave workers
2013-01-13 11:01:07 AM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Yes, I'm sure there are no robberies in states like Arizona that have open carry legal.


It's a well-known fact that death penalty states have minuscule murder rates compared to non-DP states, too.
2013-01-13 10:57:50 AM
1 votes:

NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.


No room. Too many dangerous pot smokers to subdue.
2013-01-13 09:16:23 AM
1 votes:
Why don't all of you  George Zimmermans stay the fark out of my city? We have enough problems, thank you.
 
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