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(NBC Washington)   Rash of robberies involving guns reported in Washington DC. If only there were some sort of laws in our nation's capital that could prevent this sort of thing   (nbcwashington.com) divider line 240
    More: Obvious, robbery, Washington DC, Sheen Estevez, 6th street  
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1063 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Jan 2013 at 11:46 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-13 08:38:45 AM
OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.
 
2013-01-13 09:16:23 AM
Why don't all of you  George Zimmermans stay the fark out of my city? We have enough problems, thank you.
 
2013-01-13 10:14:23 AM
So you're saying that robbery should be legal?
 
2013-01-13 10:19:36 AM

vartian: Why don't all of you  George Zimmermans stay the fark out of my city? We have enough problems, thank you.


Yeah.....problems.....like shiatty gun laws.
 
2013-01-13 10:37:00 AM

NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.


If you have gun, you'd be an idiot surrender under those conditions wouldn't you.
 
2013-01-13 10:39:11 AM
Since gun laws do not ELIMINATE crime, we shouldn't have any more gun laws.
Since cutting defense spending won't ELIMINATE the debt, we shouldn't cut defense spending.
Since abortion laws don't ELIMINATE... ummmm wait, what? MOAR abotion laws!
 
2013-01-13 10:43:45 AM

mrshowrules: NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.

If you have gun, you'd be an idiot surrender under those conditions wouldn't you.


He said "minimum" sentence. "Maximum" sentence would be unceremonious suicide by cop.

/NTTAWWT
//Unless anyone besides the maniac also dies
 
2013-01-13 10:44:43 AM
Yes, I'm sure there are no robberies in states like Arizona that have open carry legal.
 
2013-01-13 10:57:50 AM

NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.


No room. Too many dangerous pot smokers to subdue.
 
2013-01-13 11:00:19 AM

djkutch: NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.

No room. Too many dangerous pot smokers to subdue.


Maybe if we lock up the criminals with their guns, and let them kill off those dangerous pot smokers, we can eliminate two problems at once.

it's crazy enough, it just might work.
 
2013-01-13 11:01:07 AM

GAT_00: Yes, I'm sure there are no robberies in states like Arizona that have open carry legal.


It's a well-known fact that death penalty states have minuscule murder rates compared to non-DP states, too.
 
2013-01-13 11:08:27 AM

NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.



FTFY.

That'll make 'em behave!


/Slave workers
 
2013-01-13 11:23:44 AM
Hahahaha. Too funny subs. Everyone knows violence is due to video games and Hollywood. Saint LaPierre said so himself
 
2013-01-13 11:30:06 AM

NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.


"But officer, I'm only driving through to go hunting 3 counties over"

"Doesn't matter. THIS county has a law saying all ammunition must be kept separate from firearms when transporting. You have your shotgun shells in the same case as your gun. You're going to jail for life"

Awesome law, NewportBarGuy.
 
2013-01-13 11:52:03 AM

Frank N Stein: NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.

"But officer, I'm only driving through to go hunting 3 counties over"

"Doesn't matter. THIS county has a law saying all ammunition must be kept separate from firearms when transporting. You have your shotgun shells in the same case as your gun. You're going to jail for life"

Awesome law, NewportBarGuy.


I've always been told that responsible gun owners will voluntarily and proactively research the gun laws of whatever area they're traveling to or through, in order to be sure that they're compliant and respectful. Clearly your fantasy scenario couldn't happen to a responsible gun owner.
 
2013-01-13 11:52:07 AM
Clearly the answer is to let the states decide everything.

Oh wait, the borders aren't secure and one state's laws will cause problems for the neighboring state. I guess we need fences around every state with checkpoints at every entrance so that people can be screened for compliance to the applicable laws.

That'll do it. And it'll be cheap, too. Individual states willhave no trouble paying for it all, and nobody will see declines in services, tax increases or crime waves! And when a neighboring state just gives up and turns into a shiathole, the people there will never cross borders to rob or freeload, right? Oh, they might? Then I guess we have to keep people in those states, by force and by law, with fences and armed guards. But it won't be a prison camp, it'll be "respecting state's rights" for the other states!

I like this plan. Sounds like a Libertarian utopia!
 
2013-01-13 11:53:17 AM

NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.


Because draconian law works and imprisonment isn't the stupidest idea since performance enhancing cyanide capsules.
 
2013-01-13 11:56:56 AM
A liberal big city with a high crime rate? Time to ban liberals.
 
2013-01-13 11:57:27 AM
The easier it is to get guns, the fewer crimes will be committed with guns! There are people who actually believe this.

I enjoy shooting, but I'm so f*cking sick of "gun people".
 
2013-01-13 11:57:28 AM
Since only criminals commit crimes, let's make it illegal to be a criminal.

I may have just divided by potato.
 
2013-01-13 11:59:22 AM

Amos Quito: NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.


FTFY.

That'll make 'em behave!


/Slave workers


Larry Niven is close to approving.
 
2013-01-13 11:59:58 AM
There's a law against rashes?
 
2013-01-13 12:01:24 PM

Wooly Bully: The easier it is to get guns, the fewer crimes will be committed with guns! There are people who actually believe this.

I enjoy shooting, but I'm so f*cking sick of "gun people".


Guns are ALREADY saturated.

That ship sailed in 1776. Any criminal who wants a gun in America has a gun already.

Increasing regulations will just make the felony of having an illegal gun more of a felony. Pointless.
 
2013-01-13 12:04:34 PM
How about we make it difficult for people who have a history of crime or mental illness to legally obtain firearms and make the penalties for selling firearms illegally harsher than the penalties for selling pot? Nothing of course can eliminate gun crimes but that doesn't mean we should at least try.
 
2013-01-13 12:07:06 PM

Lochsteppe: Frank N Stein: NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.

"But officer, I'm only driving through to go hunting 3 counties over"

"Doesn't matter. THIS county has a law saying all ammunition must be kept separate from firearms when transporting. You have your shotgun shells in the same case as your gun. You're going to jail for life"

Awesome law, NewportBarGuy.

I've always been told that responsible gun owners will voluntarily and proactively research the gun laws of whatever area they're traveling to or through, in order to be sure that they're compliant and respectful. Clearly your fantasy scenario couldn't happen to a responsible gun owner.


So let me get this straight: Because you've been told that gun owners will research gun laws of where they are going, you essentially expect perfection in analysis of the often vague and confusing local laws (and expect them to stake their livelihood on it) even though you, yourself, probably unknowingly break minor laws on a daily basis?
 
2013-01-13 12:07:08 PM

Lochsteppe: I've always been told that responsible gun owners will voluntarily and proactively research the gun laws of whatever area they're traveling to or through, in order to be sure that they're compliant and respectful. Clearly your fantasy scenario couldn't happen to a responsible gun owner.


all things being equal it does pay to know the state laws at least. and if you are driving a p/u or SUV you may be screwed anyway since you lack a locking trunk.

yes there was a time i checked stuff like that. and then took my chances since full complacence is difficult and self defeating.
 
2013-01-13 12:07:28 PM
Time for Thunder Dome!!!

Wooly Bully:
The easier it is to get guns, the fewer crimes will be committed with guns! There are people who actually believe this.
I enjoy shooting, but I'm so f*cking sick of "gun people".
THIS THIS THIS THIS X 1000! THANK YOU MR. BULLY!
 
2013-01-13 12:07:38 PM

doglover: Wooly Bully: The easier it is to get guns, the fewer crimes will be committed with guns! There are people who actually believe this.

I enjoy shooting, but I'm so f*cking sick of "gun people".

Guns are ALREADY saturated.

That ship sailed in 1776. Any criminal who wants a gun in America has a gun already.

Increasing regulations will just make the felony of having an illegal gun more of a felony. Pointless.


That's right! Existing gun laws are a disaster. What kind of an idiot would want to change them?
 
2013-01-13 12:09:23 PM

NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.


You don't really believe the D.C lawyers would allow that do you?
 
2013-01-13 12:09:29 PM

Toots de la Footsjelly: THANK YOU MR. BULLY!


Thank you for your hilarious login name!
 
2013-01-13 12:10:58 PM

Wooly Bully: doglover: Wooly Bully: The easier it is to get guns, the fewer crimes will be committed with guns! There are people who actually believe this.

I enjoy shooting, but I'm so f*cking sick of "gun people".

Guns are ALREADY saturated.

That ship sailed in 1776. Any criminal who wants a gun in America has a gun already.

Increasing regulations will just make the felony of having an illegal gun more of a felony. Pointless.

That's right! Existing gun laws are a disaster. What kind of an idiot would want to change them?


How are they a disaster? Do you have any illegal guns?
 
2013-01-13 12:13:06 PM
 
2013-01-13 12:14:54 PM

doglover: Wooly Bully: doglover: Wooly Bully: The easier it is to get guns, the fewer crimes will be committed with guns! There are people who actually believe this.

I enjoy shooting, but I'm so f*cking sick of "gun people".

Guns are ALREADY saturated.

That ship sailed in 1776. Any criminal who wants a gun in America has a gun already.

Increasing regulations will just make the felony of having an illegal gun more of a felony. Pointless.

That's right! Existing gun laws are a disaster. What kind of an idiot would want to change them?

How are they a disaster? Do you have any illegal guns?


You're serious, aren't you?

You guys aren't gonna get a "debate" from me, unless you count the occasional sarcastic putdown.
 
2013-01-13 12:15:07 PM
The recent increase in armed robberies doesn't surprise me.

DC has had a high poverty rate for a long time.

//To live in or near DC costs quite a bit and its well beyond the reach of low income families.
//A large number of those families relocate into Maryland and Virgina.
//DC has never improved its poverty level, it simply relocated it into the two connected states.
 
2013-01-13 12:17:05 PM
You guys are missing the point.. One of the robbers WAS WEARING REDSKINS GLOVES !
 
2013-01-13 12:18:08 PM

vudutek: Since gun laws do not ELIMINATE crime, we shouldn't have any more gun laws.
Since cutting defense spending won't ELIMINATE the debt, we shouldn't cut defense spending.
Since abortion laws don't ELIMINATE... ummmm wait, what? MOAR abotion laws!


Bet you'll wish you had a gun if a criminal broke into you home and started raping and murdering your wife and kids. Go ahead, call the cops to save them, they'll be there just in time to catch the guy raping your corpse. Guns don't jump up and kill people all by themselves. And don't kid yourself, criminals already have guns and won't turn them in for a stupid gun ban.

//bet the jews in late 1930's Germany wish they had had guns.
 
2013-01-13 12:19:07 PM

PDid: Good stuff from the Washington post. Red states provide crime guns to Blue states


[i.imgur.com image 850x556]


Nonsense, criminals are born with guns, only law abiding citizens purchase them.
 
2013-01-13 12:21:01 PM
Perhaps DC should allow concealed carry?
 
2013-01-13 12:22:14 PM
Nice headline, Subby
 
2013-01-13 12:24:35 PM

Yakk: PDid: Good stuff from the Washington post. Red states provide crime guns to Blue states


[i.imgur.com image 850x556]

Nonsense, criminals are born with guns, only law abiding citizens purchase them.


Its almost as if a patchwork system of random halfassed laws and varying levels of enforcement and oversight will fail by default from its own confusion allowing everyone to point their fingers and say "see gun control doesn't work" thereby preventing a central regulatory effort to control gun sales instead of the aforementioned patchwork of city, county, state, federal laws that work together to do absolutely nothing to prevent anyone who wants to get a gun from doing so. Almost....
 
2013-01-13 12:29:32 PM

doglover: NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.

Because draconian law works and imprisonment isn't the stupidest idea since performance enhancing cyanide capsules.


Meh I donno. I'm pretty liberal but I like "Project Exile". Stop locking up the pot smokers for years on end and put violent felons into a dark box for 20 or 30ish years until they're no longer physically a threat to society (I would remove all the weights from prisons). Seems like win/win to me.

/Let's face it, we're never gonna spend the money to actually try to rehabilitate these people
 
2013-01-13 12:32:04 PM

Frank N Stein: Lochsteppe: Frank N Stein: NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.

"But officer, I'm only driving through to go hunting 3 counties over"

"Doesn't matter. THIS county has a law saying all ammunition must be kept separate from firearms when transporting. You have your shotgun shells in the same case as your gun. You're going to jail for life"

Awesome law, NewportBarGuy.

I've always been told that responsible gun owners will voluntarily and proactively research the gun laws of whatever area they're traveling to or through, in order to be sure that they're compliant and respectful. Clearly your fantasy scenario couldn't happen to a responsible gun owner.

So let me get this straight: Because you've been told that gun owners will research gun laws of where they are going, you essentially expect perfection in analysis of the often vague and confusing local laws (and expect them to stake their livelihood on it) even though you, yourself, probably unknowingly break minor laws on a daily basis?


The claim of super-responsible behavior by gun owners is a key component when people argue against improving gun laws. I've seen this claim in many Fark threads as well as from industry lobbyists and gun-rights groups. I haven't made any claims to being super-responsible myself, so my "unknowingly break[ing] minor laws" is irrelevant and a tiny adorable strawman. I can guarantee that I'm in no personal danger of breaking any gun laws, unless they extend to WoW characters.

/My hunter uses a bow now anyway.
 
2013-01-13 12:32:39 PM
No law works because some people break them! It's refreshing to see how many gun nuts are also anarchists.
 
2013-01-13 12:33:00 PM
I hate to break it to you guys, but the restrictive laws in D.C. have kind of worked. See link

Crime is only a quarter of what it was in the mid-90s when those laws appeared.
 
2013-01-13 12:34:59 PM

Doktor_Zhivago: central regulatory effort to control gun sales


You mean like the NICS background checks?
 
2013-01-13 12:39:26 PM
Maybe an enterprising gang member caught on to the Jornals FOIA request and requested a list of firearms owners from the DC clerks office.
 
2013-01-13 12:39:44 PM

madgonad: I hate to break it to you guys, but the restrictive laws in D.C. have kind of worked. See link

Crime is only a quarter of what it was in the mid-90s when those laws appeared.


Demographics: Freakonomics presents it in an easily digestible form.
 
2013-01-13 12:40:47 PM

neenerist: madgonad: I hate to break it to you guys, but the restrictive laws in D.C. have kind of worked. See link

Crime is only a quarter of what it was in the mid-90s when those laws appeared.

Demographics: Freakonomics presents it in an easily digestible form.


Abortion became legal in the mid 90s?
 
2013-01-13 12:41:20 PM

PDid: Good stuff from the Washington post. Red states provide crime guns to Blue states


[i.imgur.com image 850x556]


How come crime in those export/red states with lax gun laws aren't as high as the crime in the import/blue states?

Or maybe you are saying democrats tend to lean towards criminal activity?
 
2013-01-13 12:41:32 PM

Lochsteppe: Frank N Stein: Lochsteppe: Frank N Stein: NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.

"But officer, I'm only driving through to go hunting 3 counties over"

"Doesn't matter. THIS county has a law saying all ammunition must be kept separate from firearms when transporting. You have your shotgun shells in the same case as your gun. You're going to jail for life"

Awesome law, NewportBarGuy.

I've always been told that responsible gun owners will voluntarily and proactively research the gun laws of whatever area they're traveling to or through, in order to be sure that they're compliant and respectful. Clearly your fantasy scenario couldn't happen to a responsible gun owner.

So let me get this straight: Because you've been told that gun owners will research gun laws of where they are going, you essentially expect perfection in analysis of the often vague and confusing local laws (and expect them to stake their livelihood on it) even though you, yourself, probably unknowingly break minor laws on a daily basis?

The claim of super-responsible behavior by gun owners is a key component when people argue against improving gun laws. I've seen this claim in many Fark threads as well as from industry lobbyists and gun-rights groups. I haven't made any claims to being super-responsible myself, so my "unknowingly break[ing] minor laws" is irrelevant and a tiny adorable strawman. I can guarantee that I'm in no personal danger of breaking any gun laws, unless they extend to WoW characters.

/My hunter uses a bow now anyway.


When you hear of the "super responsible" gun owner, it's typically in the context of concealed carry permit holders (at least from what I've heard and my understanding. I may be wrong). Studies have shown that concealed carry holders are more law abiding, because they have to be if they want to keep and maintain their CC permit. But even taking that as fact, you believe that draconian laws (such as life imprisonment for any offense) should apply to gun owner... why? So as to ensnare gun owners with a technicality that can be interpreted in a number of ways under the heavy punishment of life in prison? It seems to me that support of this absurd proposal has less to do with gun crime, and more to do with threatening people with terrible consequences for exercising their right.

What you may or may not have heard from people about the perceived responsibility of gun owners is irrelevant compared to the real repercussions of such a law.
 
2013-01-13 12:42:26 PM

madgonad: I hate to break it to you guys, but the restrictive laws in D.C. have kind of worked. See link

Crime is only a quarter of what it was in the mid-90s when those laws appeared.


Because crime isn't down worldwide or anything...
 
2013-01-13 12:44:37 PM

madgonad: Crime is only a quarter of what it was in the mid-90s when those laws appeared.


Violent crime country wide has fallen by 22% in the last 10 years. The assault weapons ban expired 8 years ago.
 
2013-01-13 12:44:38 PM

EatenTheSun: Doktor_Zhivago: central regulatory effort to control gun sales

You mean like the NICS background checks?


Yeah which don't even get done for private sales on gun shows. Real effective tool there.
 
2013-01-13 12:45:33 PM

Doktor_Zhivago: EatenTheSun: Doktor_Zhivago: central regulatory effort to control gun sales

You mean like the NICS background checks?

Yeah which don't even get done for private sales onOR gun shows. Real effective tool there.

 
2013-01-13 12:45:45 PM

madgonad: I hate to break it to you guys, but the restrictive laws in D.C. have kind of worked. See link

Crime is only a quarter of what it was in the mid-90s when those laws appeared.


Hope you've got a comfy asbestos suit.
 
2013-01-13 12:46:31 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: neenerist: madgonad: I hate to break it to you guys, but the restrictive laws in D.C. have kind of worked. See link

Crime is only a quarter of what it was in the mid-90s when those laws appeared.

Demographics: Freakonomics presents it in an easily digestible form.

Abortion became legal in the mid 90s?


No, it became legal in the late 70's; about 18 years or before the mid-90's. So where there would have been the traditional wave of unwanted, poor young men who are the driving force behind crime waves, we had a great big bunch of nothing. And crime rates plummet.
 
2013-01-13 12:49:21 PM

Doktor_Zhivago: EatenTheSun: Doktor_Zhivago: central regulatory effort to control gun sales

You mean like the NICS background checks?

Yeah which don't even get done for private sales on gun shows. Real effective tool there.


The government does not allow private citizzens access to NICS.

Change the law.....I'm all for allowing people like myself to run a background check on someone when selling them a firearm.

Whos metric about private gun sales are you using?

The DOJ when surveying inmates found out most of them recieved thir wepons from friends and family or designated purchasrers who passed the background check......private sales accounted for around 2% of how criminals get their guns.....according to the Brady Campaign they rate it around 40%.

Not for nothing, but in this case I would trust a criminal over the brady campaign.....even Sarah Brady made a straw purchase of a high powered sniper rifle for her son.
 
2013-01-13 12:49:25 PM

Peter von Nostrand: Hahahaha. Too funny subs. Everyone knows violence is due to video games and Hollywood. Saint LaPierre said so himself


Seeing as how he hasn't been drummed out of the NRA, I can only assume a majority of their members agree!
 
2013-01-13 12:50:18 PM

doglover: Uranus Is Huge!: neenerist: madgonad: I hate to break it to you guys, but the restrictive laws in D.C. have kind of worked. See link

Crime is only a quarter of what it was in the mid-90s when those laws appeared.

Demographics: Freakonomics presents it in an easily digestible form.

Abortion became legal in the mid 90s?

No, it became legal in the late 70's; about 18 years or before the mid-90's. So where there would have been the traditional wave of unwanted, poor young men who are the driving force behind crime waves, we had a great big bunch of nothing. And crime rates plummet.


I think Uranus was pointing out that legalizing abortion in the 70s probably had more of an effect than the restrictive laws of the 90s.
 
2013-01-13 12:50:31 PM

Doktor_Zhivago: EatenTheSun: Doktor_Zhivago: central regulatory effort to control gun sales

You mean like the NICS background checks?

Yeah which don't even get done for private sales on gun shows. Real effective tool there.


Can't say I've ever been to a gun show where there were many private sellers. The vast majority of the sellers in the gun shows are dealers who require background checks. Probably doesn't make a lot of sense to pay for a booth to sell one or two guns that you could just as easily sell on Craigslist.

So, call it a private sales loophole if you want, because at least that's accurate, but not a gun show loophole.
 
2013-01-13 12:50:46 PM

Fail in Human Form: doglover: NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.

Because draconian law works and imprisonment isn't the stupidest idea since performance enhancing cyanide capsules.

Meh I donno. I'm pretty liberal but I like "Project Exile". Stop locking up the pot smokers for years on end and put violent felons into a dark box for 20 or 30ish years until they're no longer physically a threat to society (I would remove all the weights from prisons). Seems like win/win to me.

/Let's face it, we're never gonna spend the money to actually try to rehabilitate these people


Would fail Cruel and Unusual Punishment.
 
2013-01-13 12:50:54 PM

doglover: Uranus Is Huge!: neenerist: madgonad: I hate to break it to you guys, but the restrictive laws in D.C. have kind of worked. See link

Crime is only a quarter of what it was in the mid-90s when those laws appeared.

Demographics: Freakonomics presents it in an easily digestible form.

Abortion became legal in the mid 90s?

No, it became legal in the late 70's; about 18 years or before the mid-90's. So where there would have been the traditional wave of unwanted, poor young men who are the driving force behind crime waves, we had a great big bunch of nothing. And crime rates plummet.


Oh, I've read the book. But in order to properly show a correlation, you'd expect a corresponding increase in abortion in the mid 90s.

A better explanation might be that the mid 90s was the tail-end of the crack epidemic. (Or when the CIA quit pumping so much crack into black neighborhoods.)
 
2013-01-13 12:50:57 PM

Doktor_Zhivago: Doktor_Zhivago: EatenTheSun: Doktor_Zhivago: central regulatory effort to control gun sales

You mean like the NICS background checks?

Yeah which don't even get done for private sales onOR gun shows. Real effective tool there.


Ever try to buy a firearm from a FFL dealer at a gun show or are you just taking News of the Worlds (Batboy headline type newspapers) word?
 
2013-01-13 12:51:22 PM

Giltric: PDid: Good stuff from the Washington post. Red states provide crime guns to Blue states


[i.imgur.com image 850x556]

How come crime in those export/red states with lax gun laws aren't as high as the crime in the import/blue states?

Or maybe you are saying democrats tend to lean towards criminal activity?


Yes they do. Look at who's in prison for violent crimes and tell me they're not mostly Democrats.
 
2013-01-13 12:52:19 PM
I fail really hard at comprehension. Yes, abortion definitely played a role in decreasing crime rates.
 
2013-01-13 12:53:02 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: doglover: Uranus Is Huge!: neenerist: madgonad: I hate to break it to you guys, but the restrictive laws in D.C. have kind of worked. See link

Crime is only a quarter of what it was in the mid-90s when those laws appeared.

Demographics: Freakonomics presents it in an easily digestible form.

Abortion became legal in the mid 90s?

No, it became legal in the late 70's; about 18 years or before the mid-90's. So where there would have been the traditional wave of unwanted, poor young men who are the driving force behind crime waves, we had a great big bunch of nothing. And crime rates plummet.

Oh, I've read the book. But in order to properly show a correlation, you'd expect a corresponding increase in abortion in the mid 90s.

A better explanation might be that the mid 90s was the tail-end of the crack epidemic. (Or when the CIA quit pumping so much crack into black neighborhoods.)


You don't do basic math or biology very well, do you?
 
2013-01-13 12:53:09 PM

Empty Matchbook: Peter von Nostrand: Hahahaha. Too funny subs. Everyone knows violence is due to video games and Hollywood. Saint LaPierre said so himself

Seeing as how he hasn't been drummed out of the NRA, I can only assume a majority of their members agree!

Video Games are violent, especially the first person shooters that advertise their games being as real as it gets without actually dying....and that also promote killing more and more people in order to unlock or gain access to higher powered in game weapons to kill more and more people with..they even employ behavioral specialist to design mechanics that keep people playing.....do you disagree?
 
2013-01-13 12:55:13 PM

doglover: Uranus Is Huge!: doglover: Uranus Is Huge!: neenerist: madgonad: I hate to break it to you guys, but the restrictive laws in D.C. have kind of worked. See link

Crime is only a quarter of what it was in the mid-90s when those laws appeared.

Demographics: Freakonomics presents it in an easily digestible form.

Abortion became legal in the mid 90s?

No, it became legal in the late 70's; about 18 years or before the mid-90's. So where there would have been the traditional wave of unwanted, poor young men who are the driving force behind crime waves, we had a great big bunch of nothing. And crime rates plummet.

Oh, I've read the book. But in order to properly show a correlation, you'd expect a corresponding increase in abortion in the mid 90s.

A better explanation might be that the mid 90s was the tail-end of the crack epidemic. (Or when the CIA quit pumping so much crack into black neighborhoods.)

You don't do basic math or biology very well, do you?


Word problems are my kryptonite.
 
2013-01-13 01:03:24 PM

Doktor_Zhivago: Yeah which don't even get done for private sales OR gun shows. Real effective tool there.


Gun shows still require NICS checks if you're buying from a dealer. What happens is that when you, a non-deadler, go there to sell one or two firearms some times you find a private buyer. You don't have access to NICS so you can't check them. If you show up at a gunshow with a whole bunch of guns to sell, you'll end up getting a visit from the ATF as they don't cotton to people selling a lot of guns without a FFL.

Likewise, sometimes you show up at a gun show looking for a specific firearm and you can't find it from a dealer but another person there has it and would be willing to sell it to you. Now there's no law requiring that you use a FFL to record the transaction but if I don't know you and you want to buy one of my guns, I'm going through an FFL. Now if I know you well enough, I'll sell it to you directly. Most firearm owners do this because they dislike gun crime as well.
 
2013-01-13 01:11:13 PM

Giltric: Empty Matchbook: Peter von Nostrand: Hahahaha. Too funny subs. Everyone knows violence is due to video games and Hollywood. Saint LaPierre said so himself

Seeing as how he hasn't been drummed out of the NRA, I can only assume a majority of their members agree!
Video Games are violent, especially the first person shooters that advertise their games being as real as it gets without actually dying....and that also promote killing more and more people in order to unlock or gain access to higher powered in game weapons to kill more and more people with..they even employ behavioral specialist to design mechanics that keep people playing.....do you disagree?


Tell you what, the moment you take a kid who's only experience with guns is pushing buttons on a controller during CoD 3, take him out to the gun range, hand him a weapon shown in that video game, and have him score perfect bullseyes time after time, I'll listen to that argument.
 
2013-01-13 01:16:18 PM

GAT_00: Yes, I'm sure there are no robberies in states like Arizona that have open carry legal.


Tell us, oh "smart one," how many robberies in Arizona are committed by someone with a LEGAL gun?

Bet you didn't know that EVERY murder in Philadelphia in 2012 was committed with an ILLEGAL gun.

So your idea is to create more gun laws for LEGAL gun owners, right? Why don't you tell us your plan to eliminate all the ILLEGAL guns? Or is that too hard?
 
2013-01-13 01:17:23 PM

pueblonative: Giltric: Empty Matchbook: Peter von Nostrand: Hahahaha. Too funny subs. Everyone knows violence is due to video games and Hollywood. Saint LaPierre said so himself

Seeing as how he hasn't been drummed out of the NRA, I can only assume a majority of their members agree!
Video Games are violent, especially the first person shooters that advertise their games being as real as it gets without actually dying....and that also promote killing more and more people in order to unlock or gain access to higher powered in game weapons to kill more and more people with..they even employ behavioral specialist to design mechanics that keep people playing.....do you disagree?

Tell you what, the moment you take a kid who's only experience with guns is pushing buttons on a controller during CoD 3, take him out to the gun range, hand him a weapon shown in that video game, and have him score perfect bullseyes time after time, I'll listen to that argument.


Or even have him deal with the pain in the ass of hauling around ammunition, loading magazines, recoil, not unlocking new things with simple button pushes, and not having a dozen friends on voice chat while he does it.

If video games cause violent behavior, we'd be seeing more savagery than a full on Viking raid every day because everyone I know, including girls, plays violent video games at least sometimes.
 
2013-01-13 01:19:20 PM

PDid: Good stuff from the Washington post. Red states provide crime guns to Blue states


[i.imgur.com image 850x556]


So, according to that map VT is both a net exporter and a net importer of guns? Fascinating.
 
2013-01-13 01:22:43 PM

pueblonative: score perfect bullseyes time after time


Not for nothing, but this isn't required for all applications of a firearm.

Although I get what you're saying, and I disagree with the NRA on this issue. However, what I find hypocritical about Hollywood is the glorification of violence (particularly gun violence) shown by some producers, directors, and actors. All the while these same people argue for the ban of certain types of guns, magazines etc...
 
2013-01-13 01:30:38 PM

doglover: pueblonative: Giltric: Empty Matchbook: Peter von Nostrand: Hahahaha. Too funny subs. Everyone knows violence is due to video games and Hollywood. Saint LaPierre said so himself

Seeing as how he hasn't been drummed out of the NRA, I can only assume a majority of their members agree!
Video Games are violent, especially the first person shooters that advertise their games being as real as it gets without actually dying....and that also promote killing more and more people in order to unlock or gain access to higher powered in game weapons to kill more and more people with..they even employ behavioral specialist to design mechanics that keep people playing.....do you disagree?

Tell you what, the moment you take a kid who's only experience with guns is pushing buttons on a controller during CoD 3, take him out to the gun range, hand him a weapon shown in that video game, and have him score perfect bullseyes time after time, I'll listen to that argument.

Or even have him deal with the pain in the ass of hauling around ammunition, loading magazines, recoil, not unlocking new things with simple button pushes, and not having a dozen friends on voice chat while he does it.

If video games cause violent behavior, we'd be seeing more savagery than a full on Viking raid every day because everyone I know, including girls, plays violent video games at least sometimes.


Because society is exactly the same it was the day the TV was invented. The ONLY thing that has changed is that our entertainments have gotten more violent more realistic and somewhat interactive.
 
2013-01-13 01:32:16 PM
You mean like making robbery illegal?
 
2013-01-13 01:35:30 PM
I have a weird question.

If you are unarmed and you steal a gun. Is it an armed robbery when you leave?

Thanks
 
2013-01-13 01:39:02 PM

Heraclitus: I have a weird question.

If you are unarmed and you steal a gun. Is it an armed robbery when you leave?

Thanks



I'm voting no. After the fact. Not used in commission of crime.

/waiting for a real fake lawyer to come along
 
2013-01-13 01:39:26 PM
If someone were to only close the factory doors to the "Criminal Gun Manufacturer" shop, then criminals couldn't get guns, seeing as legal gun owners are so responsible as to never let their weaponry fall into the wrong hands.
 
2013-01-13 01:40:23 PM

PDid: Good stuff from the Washington post. Red states provide crime guns to Blue states


[i.imgur.com image 850x556]


DC has one FFL who was located at the police station. It's almost by definition either everyone using a gun in a crime there has to be a legal buyer or an importer.
 
2013-01-13 01:40:55 PM

GAT_00: Yes, I'm sure there are no robberies in states like Arizona that have open carry legal.


Could it be that the headline writer wasn't saying looser gun laws deter crime but rather was saying laws making it tougher for non-criminals to have guns have no effect on criminals? Nah, that's crazy talk.
 
2013-01-13 01:41:27 PM

Holocaust Agnostic: Because society is exactly the same it was the day the TV was invented. The ONLY thing that has changed is that our entertainments have gotten more violent more realistic and somewhat interactive.


Pop culture is more an indirect measurement of a society than a driver.
 
2013-01-13 01:43:37 PM
Gosh, as a resident of the District of Columbia, it's just too bad that the Federal tax paying citizens who reside here didn't overwhelming vote not to allow guns here, only to have our will ignored. One would think we had no actual representation!

Waiting for the one teabagger who spouts off about taxation to take up the cause of those of us who are actually taxed without representation
 
2013-01-13 01:49:54 PM

Holocaust Agnostic: The ONLY thing that has changed is that our entertainments have gotten more violent more realistic and somewhat interactive.


And yet violent crime rates continue to DROP. How can video games be causing crime if the rates since their inception get lower each year?
 
2013-01-13 01:50:21 PM

Mrbogey: Holocaust Agnostic: Because society is exactly the same it was the day the TV was invented. The ONLY thing that has changed is that our entertainments have gotten more violent more realistic and somewhat interactive.

Pop culture is more an indirect measurement of a society than a driver.


Its both.
 
2013-01-13 01:52:09 PM

Giltric: Doktor_Zhivago: EatenTheSun: Doktor_Zhivago: central regulatory effort to control gun sales

You mean like the NICS background checks?

Yeah which don't even get done for private sales on gun shows. Real effective tool there.

The government does not allow private citizzens access to NICS.

Change the law.....I'm all for allowing people like myself to run a background check on someone when selling them a firearm.

Whos metric about private gun sales are you using?

The DOJ when surveying inmates found out most of them recieved thir wepons from friends and family or designated purchasrers who passed the background check......private sales accounted for around 2% of how criminals get their guns.....according to the Brady Campaign they rate it around 40%.

Not for nothing, but in this case I would trust a criminal over the brady campaign.....even Sarah Brady made a straw purchase of a high powered sniper rifle for her son.


All I was saying is that there shouldn't be a different law about how to deal with gun sales in every single state, local and county government. My point was not so much about the efficacy of current laws but more so about how they are so different from place to place making it impossible to actually enforce them with some kind of coherent plan. You can buy a semi-auto rifle with 100 round mag here in TN but it might magically turn into an illegal assault weapon when you move out of state. All the different laws do is provide a place for a gray and black market to thrive by giving them a steady supply of legally purchased firearms in states with lax laws/enforcement to then sell illegally or even legally though loopholes and other such things in states with strict laws/enforcement.
 
2013-01-13 01:52:25 PM

SharkInfested: Gosh, as a resident of the District of Columbia, it's just too bad that the Federal tax paying citizens who reside here didn't overwhelming vote not to allow guns here, only to have our will ignored. One would think we had no actual representation!

Waiting for the one teabagger who spouts off about taxation to take up the cause of those of us who are actually taxed without representation


The constitution trumped you like it did sodomy laws in Texas, and like it should re: gay marriage ban in California.
 
2013-01-13 01:54:10 PM

SharkInfested: Waiting for the one teabagger who spouts off about taxation to take up the cause of those of us who are actually taxed without representation


America was founded by people who violently opposed taxation without representation. They even rebelled twice after Hamilton tried to tax whiskey. Representation: It's kind of a big deal that.

I'm not suggesting armed rebellion, but if you want representation move 20 miles or so into Maryland. You can keep your DC job AND be represented.
 
2013-01-13 01:54:18 PM

doglover: Holocaust Agnostic: The ONLY thing that has changed is that our entertainments have gotten more violent more realistic and somewhat interactive.

And yet violent crime rates continue to DROP. How can video games be causing crime if the rates since their inception get lower each year?


I once touched a match to half a teaspoon of black powder and got quite a satisfying little bang. So then i added a pond of black powder and three gallons of water. But this time all i got was a boring little fffff!

thats how i learned black powder isn't flammable.
 
2013-01-13 01:55:08 PM

Holocaust Agnostic: Mrbogey: Holocaust Agnostic: Because society is exactly the same it was the day the TV was invented. The ONLY thing that has changed is that our entertainments have gotten more violent more realistic and somewhat interactive.

Pop culture is more an indirect measurement of a society than a driver.

Its both.


Well I suppose if you differentiate consumers and producers of pop culture.
 
2013-01-13 01:57:48 PM

Holocaust Agnostic: doglover: Holocaust Agnostic: The ONLY thing that has changed is that our entertainments have gotten more violent more realistic and somewhat interactive.

And yet violent crime rates continue to DROP. How can video games be causing crime if the rates since their inception get lower each year?

I once touched a match to half a teaspoon of black powder and got quite a satisfying little bang. So then i added a pond of black powder and three gallons of water. But this time all i got was a boring little fffff!

thats how i learned black powder isn't flammable.


I once tried wishful thinking to win an argument on the internet. But I made too many typos and doglover was amused by my poor attempt at logic becoming a wonderfully absurd image of a gunpowder pond with lead fish in.
 
2013-01-13 02:01:05 PM
NewportBarGuy OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is



someone post the "I'm OK with this" kid.

yeah. Great idea no doubt.

Too bad it can NEVER happen.

The "War on Drugs" is pretty much the primary reason.

Our law enforcement. Our prosecuting attys,DAs,courts prioritize drug convictions. Our jails are over-stuffed to the brim with folks guilty of possessing/selling this "evil" green leaf.

As long as our society concentrates its money and effort on railroading millions and millions of citizens for victimless crimes...the violent predators will prevail.
 
2013-01-13 02:04:06 PM

Heraclitus: I have a weird question.

If you are unarmed and you steal a gun. Is it an armed robbery when you leave?

Thanks


Depends on situation.
If I am carrying a firearm, and you grab it out of my hands and hold me at bay while you escape, yes.
If I am carrying a firearm and you knock me down, grab it, and run without threatening me, it's probably some aggravated sort of robbery while in possession of a firearm, but I doubt it would be considered armed robbery.
If you burglarize my home without a weapon, but you find one of my guns and take it, it turns into a higher degree of burglary at that moment (at least under FL law).
 
2013-01-13 02:05:34 PM

doglover: Holocaust Agnostic: doglover: Holocaust Agnostic: The ONLY thing that has changed is that our entertainments have gotten more violent more realistic and somewhat interactive.

And yet violent crime rates continue to DROP. How can video games be causing crime if the rates since their inception get lower each year?

I once touched a match to half a teaspoon of black powder and got quite a satisfying little bang. So then i added a pond of black powder and three gallons of water. But this time all i got was a boring little fffff!

thats how i learned black powder isn't flammable.

I once tried wishful thinking to win an argument on the internet. But I made too many typos and doglover was amused by my poor attempt at logic becoming a wonderfully absurd image of a gunpowder pond with lead fish in.


Whats wishful about declining to draw conclusions about a particular variable based on data collected with no controls whatsoever?
 
2013-01-13 02:07:35 PM

doglover: SharkInfested: Waiting for the one teabagger who spouts off about taxation to take up the cause of those of us who are actually taxed without representation

America was founded by people who violently opposed taxation without representation. They even rebelled twice after Hamilton tried to tax whiskey.
d.



and both of those rebellions went oh so well for the rebels:

Shays Rebellion


Whiskey Rebellion
 
2013-01-13 02:09:18 PM
If you have a small geographic area where some object isn't allowed, but is surrounded by a huge geographic area where that object has only superficial restrictions placed on it, and movement between these two areas isn't restricted in any way, the fact that the object winds up in the small, restricted space is absolute proof that restrictions on it cannot work and in no way implies that there is a larger problem needing addressed.

By the way, one of my "responsible gun owning" neighbors threw what appears to be a box of .270 soft point ammo out with the trash the other day and now it's been laying in his front yard for the last four days because the trash men caught it and dumped it. I guess we'll just assume he soaked it for a period of time and didn't just throw it out live even though I have every reason to believe the moron did just that since he's never done anything else remotely intelligent the entire time I've lived here.

Yay responsible gun owners.
 
2013-01-13 02:09:41 PM
Criminals have no regard for the law; ergo, there is no point in having laws because criminals always break them.
 
2013-01-13 02:12:37 PM

doglover: madgonad: I hate to break it to you guys, but the restrictive laws in D.C. have kind of worked. See link

Crime is only a quarter of what it was in the mid-90s when those laws appeared.

Because crime isn't down worldwide or anything...


Absolutely. The countless correlations between gun ownership, gun laws and crime only have causative effects when it means there should be MOAR GUNS. Everybody knows, after all, that the ONLY facet of gun violence that can't possibly be a part of the problem is the prevalence of guns.

In fact, smart people like you know that the only way to reduce gun violence is to increase the number of people with guns. If there are more guns with fewer restrictions, the only logical outcome is less people getting shot.

God, when will these stupid libs learn some basic logic, anyway?
 
2013-01-13 02:15:06 PM

thornhill: Criminals have no regard for the law; ergo, there is no point in having laws because criminals always break them.


Is that the same logic behind the deregulation of Wall Street?
 
2013-01-13 02:20:31 PM

pueblonative: thornhill: Criminals have no regard for the law; ergo, there is no point in having laws because criminals always break them.

Is that the same logic behind the deregulation of Wall Street?


No. Wall Street told us they could regulate themselves. Why shouldn't we believe them (unless you're a commie who hates profit)?
 
2013-01-13 02:36:11 PM
Another worthless statistic:

Most violent crime is committed by Democrats.
 
2013-01-13 02:48:02 PM

mrshowrules: NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.

If you have gun, you'd be an idiot surrender under those conditions wouldn't you.


Indeed. Most liberals don't actually ever think things out. Just one knee-jerk reaction after another.

Besides, if we did that, Obama would not be very popular with the black community.
 
2013-01-13 02:50:02 PM

madgonad: I hate to break it to you guys, but the restrictive laws in D.C. have kind of worked. See link

Crime is only a quarter of what it was in the mid-90s when those laws appeared.


What firearm regulations were enacted in the District of Columbia in the 1990s?
 
2013-01-13 02:53:47 PM

taxandspend: GAT_00: Yes, I'm sure there are no robberies in states like Arizona that have open carry legal.

According to this data, Arizona looks to be at the low end of the scale when it comes to armed robberies with just 18.4 per 100,000 population. Its firearms murder rate is at 2.24 per 100,000 population, however firearms murders represent 65% of all murders in the state. It also has a firearms assault rate of 57.36 per 100,000.

In comparison, Washington D.C. has 12.46 firearms murders per 100,000 population with a rate of 71% of all murders involving firearms. Its armed robberies rate stands at 242.56 per 100,000 (the highest in the nation) and its armed assaults stand at 87.7 per 100,000, which is only lower than a few states including Tennessee and South Carolina.


Pwnd!
 
2013-01-13 02:57:16 PM

Vectron: Another worthless statistic:

Most violent crime is committed by Democrats.


I can't call you a troll, because that's a bannable offense.

So here's me not calling you a troll.
 
2013-01-13 02:58:06 PM
The arguement that criminals procure firearms by any means necessarry is true but it doesn't answer the following question:

"Do the guns owned by law abiding citizens simply vanish once they choose criminality?"

We shoud reconize the fact that the law abiding gun owner and the criminal can be the same person. It is the same person in two different states. This is why the realtionship that seperates one observed state from the other is extremely important when we discuss solutions to gun violence.
 
2013-01-13 03:00:34 PM

thornhill: Criminals have no regard for the law; ergo, there is no point in having laws because criminals always break them.


A day without hearing the perfect solution fallacy is like a day without sunshine.
 
2013-01-13 03:01:05 PM

Wooly Bully: I can't call you a troll, because that's a bannable offense.


Since when?
 
2013-01-13 03:03:49 PM
If you want a "conversation" about gun laws and crime, than the place we need to start with is our obscenely stupid instant background check system.

For those of you who don't know, when you go to buy a gun, this is what happens:
- You walk into a gun store and pick a gun.
- You fill out a federal form with your name, address, SSN, race and a bunch of Yes/No questions (are you a criminal, are you mentally ill, did you surrender your US citizenship). You answer Yes to the first one, and No to all the others and sign.
- They call (or now, use a website) and run your name through NICS, which is basically a lightweight PASS/FAIL version of the FBI national criminal database.
- You pay for your gun and you walk out the door. Some states have a waiting period.

That's it.

This system is monumentally stupid for a whole host of reasons.

1- The most germane reason in regards to DC crime; all you do to get around it is send in a friend with a clean criminal record who buys the gun for you. A so-called "straw purchase."

2- The NICS system doesn't look at local criminal records or police databases. This is where your going to find police contact due to mental illness, drug use or domestic violence. Only fully sorted court convictions show up in NICS. If the police have been at your address 4 times in the last year for various calls, the system needs to be able to ask that and it would be totally appropriate to have someone from law enforcement look into it a bit more and ask you what's up before you purchase a gun.

3- The gatekeepers of the system are gun retailers. Most gun dealers are businesses on the up and up, for no other reason than dealing with the BATF just scares the bejesus out of them. Even so, there are clearly firearm dealers that are a nexus for straw purchases, likely because they are doing a piss poor job or even flagrantly violating the law.

We already have all the infrastructure required to solve this problem. 48 states have concealed weapons license systems that include through national, state and local background checks, including running the buyer's name through the local police information databases. Those checks are conducted by the sheriff's department, who has the capability to follow up with a license application with an interview or more through investigation if any flags are found.

The solution is simple; harmonize CCW laws across the country by setting minimal standards for all states that includes classroom training, range time, and education about gun safety and secure storage (with a new emphasis on securing firearms from family members). Require this license to buy a gun, go to a public range, receive a hunting license or purchase ammo. Ditch the NICS system and simply have gun stores call in the license to make sure it is currently valid and has no holds.

This system would:

- Eliminate straw purchases.
- Ensure a minimum level of education and experience amongst gun owners.
- Give the police a tool to cross check domestic violence, drug use and mental health against addresses of gun owners.
- Provide significantly more meaningful and secure background checks.

Of course, nobody is talking about doing this. Democrats are in too deep a fit of hysteria and the Republicans are too stupid that their ability to breath is surprising. The NRA has turned into an entrenched organization of Fudds who won't move an inch, mostly because the Democrats have given them all the reason not to be trusted.

This whole gun debate thing is a farce.
 
2013-01-13 03:04:27 PM
How about a law that requires gun owners to properly stow their weapons and liability insurance to enforce it.
 
2013-01-13 03:05:58 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: thornhill: Criminals have no regard for the law; ergo, there is no point in having laws because criminals always break them.

A day without hearing the perfect solution fallacy is like a day without sunshine.


cdn.ksk.uproxx.com
 
2013-01-13 03:10:49 PM

thornhill: Don't Troll Me Bro!: thornhill: Criminals have no regard for the law; ergo, there is no point in having laws because criminals always break them.

A day without hearing the perfect solution fallacy is like a day without sunshine.

[cdn.ksk.uproxx.com image 500x375]


Oh man. I need to watch that episode now.
 
2013-01-13 03:10:52 PM

LasersHurt: Wooly Bully: I can't call you a troll, because that's a bannable offense.

Since when?


I got banned a couple of days ago for exactly that. Funny part was when I saw the same person boast about their great trolling later the same day. That really did crack me up.
 
2013-01-13 03:13:39 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: thornhill: Don't Troll Me Bro!: thornhill: Criminals have no regard for the law; ergo, there is no point in having laws because criminals always break them.

A day without hearing the perfect solution fallacy is like a day without sunshine.

[cdn.ksk.uproxx.com image 500x375]

Oh man. I need to watch that episode now.


When you're done, let me know if you want to buy my anti-tiger rock.
 
2013-01-13 03:26:45 PM

dahmers love zombie: Heraclitus: I have a weird question.

If you are unarmed and you steal a gun. Is it an armed robbery when you leave?

Thanks

Depends on situation.
If I am carrying a firearm, and you grab it out of my hands and hold me at bay while you escape, yes.
If I am carrying a firearm and you knock me down, grab it, and run without threatening me, it's probably some aggravated sort of robbery while in possession of a firearm, but I doubt it would be considered armed robbery.
If you burglarize my home without a weapon, but you find one of my guns and take it, it turns into a higher degree of burglary at that moment (at least under FL law).


YIKES
TY
 
2013-01-13 03:27:49 PM
As far as laws and guns go, I keep thinking back to something I read a week or so ago about that Lanza guy. Although he was sick, mean, remorseless, and committed any number of firearm and other offenses, his rifle wasn't misused.
 
2013-01-13 03:30:08 PM

Ray Vaughn: How about a law that requires gun owners to properly stow their weapons and liability insurance to enforce it.


We are talking about people who think it's unreasonable to take guns away from a man who sold explosives to Libya as part of a terror training operation. Do you really think that's going to fly?
 
2013-01-13 03:35:19 PM
I love all the gun grabbers who want to take away the rights from those of us who live in freedom-loving states.

/Washinton resident.
//But we are bright red when it comes to firearms.
 
2013-01-13 03:38:34 PM

The_Sponge: I love all the gun grabbers who want to take away the rights from those of us who live in freedom-loving states.

/Washinton resident.
//But we are bright red when it comes to firearms.


My city is a shiathole, therefor you shouldn't have guns!
 
2013-01-13 03:47:11 PM

pueblonative: Giltric: Empty Matchbook: Peter von Nostrand: Hahahaha. Too funny subs. Everyone knows violence is due to video games and Hollywood. Saint LaPierre said so himself

Seeing as how he hasn't been drummed out of the NRA, I can only assume a majority of their members agree!
Video Games are violent, especially the first person shooters that advertise their games being as real as it gets without actually dying....and that also promote killing more and more people in order to unlock or gain access to higher powered in game weapons to kill more and more people with..they even employ behavioral specialist to design mechanics that keep people playing.....do you disagree?

Tell you what, the moment you take a kid who's only experience with guns is pushing buttons on a controller during CoD 3, take him out to the gun range, hand him a weapon shown in that video game, and have him score perfect bullseyes time after time, I'll listen to that argument.


Nobodys claiming the game gives them good aim...hell half the people playing have like a sub 20% accuracy.

Its the taking livesfor kicks and laughing part....especially if the kid is a bit prone to la la land fantasies...like the kid who shot up the school in newtown that spent hours upon hours in his room playing games like that....or the columbine kids who claimed what they were going to do would be just like playing the game Doom.

Or it could be the anti psychotics, anti-depressents, SSRIs etc ....or maybe a combination of the two....where there is smoke, there is fire.
 
2013-01-13 03:48:21 PM

The_Sponge: I love all the gun grabbers who want to take away the rights from those of us who live in freedom-loving states.


Freedom means never having to be responsible for anything you do! FREEDOM!
 
2013-01-13 03:49:21 PM

doglover: pueblonative: Giltric: Empty Matchbook: Peter von Nostrand: Hahahaha. Too funny subs. Everyone knows violence is due to video games and Hollywood. Saint LaPierre said so himself

Seeing as how he hasn't been drummed out of the NRA, I can only assume a majority of their members agree!
Video Games are violent, especially the first person shooters that advertise their games being as real as it gets without actually dying....and that also promote killing more and more people in order to unlock or gain access to higher powered in game weapons to kill more and more people with..they even employ behavioral specialist to design mechanics that keep people playing.....do you disagree?

Tell you what, the moment you take a kid who's only experience with guns is pushing buttons on a controller during CoD 3, take him out to the gun range, hand him a weapon shown in that video game, and have him score perfect bullseyes time after time, I'll listen to that argument.

Or even have him deal with the pain in the ass of hauling around ammunition, loading magazines, recoil, not unlocking new things with simple button pushes, and not having a dozen friends on voice chat while he does it.

If video games cause violent behavior, we'd be seeing more savagery than a full on Viking raid every day because everyone I know, including girls, plays violent video games at least sometimes.


Some people get tazed and have a heart attack....some people don;t....some people smoke crack and get hooked, some people don;t

SOme people play games and know that it is a game....some people get the game and real life confused.

The bigger connection with all the school shooters is the medication they were on.
 
2013-01-13 04:05:38 PM

Heraclitus: dahmers love zombie: Heraclitus: I have a weird question.

If you are unarmed and you steal a gun. Is it an armed robbery when you leave?

Thanks

Depends on situation.
If I am carrying a firearm, and you grab it out of my hands and hold me at bay while you escape, yes.
If I am carrying a firearm and you knock me down, grab it, and run without threatening me, it's probably some aggravated sort of robbery while in possession of a firearm, but I doubt it would be considered armed robbery.
If you burglarize my home without a weapon, but you find one of my guns and take it, it turns into a higher degree of burglary at that moment (at least under FL law).

YIKES
TY


Did that info change your weekend plans or something?
 
2013-01-13 04:07:00 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: The_Sponge: I love all the gun grabbers who want to take away the rights from those of us who live in freedom-loving states.

Freedom means never having to be responsible for anything you do! FREEDOM!


I have relatives in Virginia, and boy, are those mofos free! They're so free, they're the number one exporter of guns used in crimes outside their own incredibly free state. There are people who literally make a living buying guns in VA and selling them on the street in other states. FREEDOM!
 
2013-01-13 04:08:47 PM

Wooly Bully: Vegan Meat Popsicle: The_Sponge: I love all the gun grabbers who want to take away the rights from those of us who live in freedom-loving states.

Freedom means never having to be responsible for anything you do! FREEDOM!

I have relatives in Virginia, and boy, are those mofos free! They're so free, they're the number one exporter of guns used in crimes outside their own incredibly free state. There are people who literally make a living buying guns in VA and selling them on the street in other states. FREEDOM!


Why is crime lower in VA where the gun laws are lax as opposed to DC?

Is everyone commuting to DC tin order to perpetrate crime and mess with the statisticals?
 
2013-01-13 04:17:32 PM

Holocaust Agnostic: doglover: pueblonative: Giltric: Empty Matchbook: Peter von Nostrand: Hahahaha. Too funny subs. Everyone knows violence is due to video games and Hollywood. Saint LaPierre said so himself

Seeing as how he hasn't been drummed out of the NRA, I can only assume a majority of their members agree!
Video Games are violent, especially the first person shooters that advertise their games being as real as it gets without actually dying....and that also promote killing more and more people in order to unlock or gain access to higher powered in game weapons to kill more and more people with..they even employ behavioral specialist to design mechanics that keep people playing.....do you disagree?

Tell you what, the moment you take a kid who's only experience with guns is pushing buttons on a controller during CoD 3, take him out to the gun range, hand him a weapon shown in that video game, and have him score perfect bullseyes time after time, I'll listen to that argument.

Or even have him deal with the pain in the ass of hauling around ammunition, loading magazines, recoil, not unlocking new things with simple button pushes, and not having a dozen friends on voice chat while he does it.

If video games cause violent behavior, we'd be seeing more savagery than a full on Viking raid every day because everyone I know, including girls, plays violent video games at least sometimes.

Because society is exactly the same it was the day the TV was invented. The ONLY thing that has changed is that our entertainments have gotten more violent more realistic and somewhat interactive.


Tell that to Roy Rogers, John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, Charles Bronson, Robert Mitchum (sp).
 
2013-01-13 04:19:53 PM

Giltric: Wooly Bully: Vegan Meat Popsicle: The_Sponge: I love all the gun grabbers who want to take away the rights from those of us who live in freedom-loving states.

Freedom means never having to be responsible for anything you do! FREEDOM!

I have relatives in Virginia, and boy, are those mofos free! They're so free, they're the number one exporter of guns used in crimes outside their own incredibly free state. There are people who literally make a living buying guns in VA and selling them on the street in other states. FREEDOM!

Why is crime lower in VA where the gun laws are lax as opposed to DC?


Because they can get guns more easily, of course! I mean, duh.

I think you're very smart, and not a troll, at all.

Giltric: Is everyone commuting to DC tin order to perpetrate crime and mess with the statisticals?


Yes, that must be it! I'm totally serious. Really, I have too much respect for your intelligence to joke about this clever post you just made.
 
2013-01-13 04:24:00 PM

Giltric: Why is crime lower in VA where the gun laws are lax as opposed to DC?


Because you touch yourself at night.

At no point in your intensely absurd comment did it even begin to occur to you how pointless and irrelevant it is to draw a direct comparison in crime rates between an entire state and a single city?
 
2013-01-13 04:24:16 PM

Doktor_Zhivago: Yeah which don't even get done for private sales onOR gun shows. Real effective tool there.


It is true that private sales between individuals require no background checks, this does not hold true for dealers at gun shows. Any firearms purchase from a vendor at a gun show goes through the exact same background check as if the transaction had happened in a gun store. Period. Full stop. Most gun shows have police officers on site to expedite the background checks if needed (and to arrest those who are denied).

If you wish to extend the requirement for background checks to private sales (not a bad idea, IMO), make it simple and as close to free as possible. Otherwise, far too few people will bother. The private gun market would just go underground.
 
2013-01-13 04:25:45 PM
Most amazing thing to me as a very long time Farker . . . how so many gun nut alleged-Farkers have leapt out of the woodwork recently.
 
2013-01-13 04:28:29 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: The_Sponge: I love all the gun grabbers who want to take away the rights from those of us who live in freedom-loving states.

Freedom means never having to be responsible for anything you do! FREEDOM!



I love it when liberals or leftists talk about personal responsibility.  It's a joke.

And why are so many pussified males on the side on gun control?
 
2013-01-13 04:29:46 PM

The_Sponge: Vegan Meat Popsicle: The_Sponge: I love all the gun grabbers who want to take away the rights from those of us who live in freedom-loving states.

Freedom means never having to be responsible for anything you do! FREEDOM!

Hey cocksucker.....if I commit a crime with ANY of my firearms, I should go to prison.

But by all means.....keep being a pussy and get all emo about demanding bans on so-called assault weapons and magazines that hold more than 10 rounds,


Low hanging fruit . . . how would it concern you if our elected Congress restricted your ability to buy high capacity magazines and semi-automatic rifles? let alone fully automatic rifles
 
2013-01-13 04:31:24 PM

carpbrain: how so many gun nut alleged-Farkers have leapt out of the woodwork recently.


What, you don't know? We're all NRA paid shills. Get with the program, dude.
 
2013-01-13 04:36:50 PM

carpbrain: Low hanging fruit . . . how would it concern you if our elected Congress restricted your ability to buy high capacity magazines and semi-automatic rifles? let alone fully automatic rifles



Lots of concern.

Not to mention that Feinstein (total c*nt) wants use to register are so-called assault weapons.

Never mind that fact that firearm deaths have been coming down since 2004.....which happens to be when the Clinton ban went away.
 
2013-01-13 04:37:12 PM

The_Sponge: Vegan Meat Popsicle: The_Sponge: I love all the gun grabbers who want to take away the rights from those of us who live in freedom-loving states.

Freedom means never having to be responsible for anything you do! FREEDOM!


I love it when liberals or leftists talk about personal responsibility.  It's a joke.

And why are so many pussified males on the side on gun control?


I love when ammosexuals jump into a thread a start calling people names and challenging others' manhhood simply for thinking that we'd be better off with less guns.
 
2013-01-13 04:39:06 PM
FNS . . . I've read the polls that show (bizarrely, in my view) that Americans are still in favor of mostly arbitrary gun ownership . . . I'm sure you know that the US is a huge outlier among civilized nations in this respect . . . still trying to get my head around the problem. I thought that Michael Moore's film Bowling for Columbine http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310793/ was relatively insightful. That was a long time ago, and the discussion has not seemed to have moved much since then. Appreciative of any clever insights on the gun issue.
 
2013-01-13 04:40:54 PM

carpbrain: I thought that Michael Moore's film Bowling for Columbine http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310793/ was relatively insightful.


That movie was full of shiat and you should feel bad for mentioning it.
 
2013-01-13 04:41:28 PM

The_Sponge: Vegan Meat Popsicle: The_Sponge: I love all the gun grabbers who want to take away the rights from those of us who live in freedom-loving states.

Freedom means never having to be responsible for anything you do! FREEDOM!


I love it when liberals or leftists talk about personal responsibility.  It's a joke.

And why are so many pussified males on the side on gun control?


I'm such a pussy, I've never had to carry a gun in my life to feel safe.
 
2013-01-13 04:42:18 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: I love when ammosexuals jump into a thread a start calling people names and challenging others' manhhood simply for thinking that we'd be better off with less guns.



Yeah.....as opposed to the hoplophobes who LOVE talking about COCK.
 
2013-01-13 04:43:42 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: The_Sponge: Vegan Meat Popsicle: The_Sponge: I love all the gun grabbers who want to take away the rights from those of us who live in freedom-loving states.

Freedom means never having to be responsible for anything you do! FREEDOM!


I love it when liberals or leftists talk about personal responsibility.  It's a joke.

And why are so many pussified males on the side on gun control?

I'm such a pussy, I've never had to carry a gun in my life to feel safe.



It is not about whether or not you own a firearm....it is whether or not you believe in an important right.....over the years, I have known plenty of pro-Second Amendment people who don't even own so much as a .22
 
2013-01-13 04:43:42 PM

The_Sponge: carpbrain: Low hanging fruit . . . how would it concern you if our elected Congress restricted your ability to buy high capacity magazines and semi-automatic rifles? let alone fully automatic rifles


Lots of concern.

Not to mention that Feinstein (total c*nt) wants use to register are so-called assault weapons.

Never mind that fact that firearm deaths have been coming down since 2004.....which happens to be when the Clinton ban went away.


Hehe had someone challenge one of my posts . . . I said 10k deaths a year due to firearms . . . he challenged only 9k!!!
 
2013-01-13 04:48:23 PM

Frank N Stein: carpbrain: I thought that Michael Moore's film Bowling for Columbine http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310793/ was relatively insightful.

That movie was full of shiat and you should feel bad for mentioning it.


Hmmm wow. I think that was his best film. Not sure where you're going with that one. I still appreciate that folks can make up their own minds about things. But this specific movie . . . I really wish every reader would watch it . . . exposed challenging angles about how it comes about that we are a society that wields lethal weapons.
 
2013-01-13 04:49:08 PM

The_Sponge: Uranus Is Huge!: The_Sponge: Vegan Meat Popsicle: The_Sponge: I love all the gun grabbers who want to take away the rights from those of us who live in freedom-loving states.

Freedom means never having to be responsible for anything you do! FREEDOM!


I love it when liberals or leftists talk about personal responsibility.  It's a joke.

And why are so many pussified males on the side on gun control?

I'm such a pussy, I've never had to carry a gun in my life to feel safe.


It is not about whether or not you own a firearm....it is whether or not you believe in an important right.....over the years, I have known plenty of pro-Second Amendment people who don't even own so much as a .22


I'm pro-all-the-ammendments. I still don't understand the obsession with guns - lots and lots of guns. The fact that you conflate your love of firearms with masculinity speaks volumes.
 
2013-01-13 04:49:20 PM

carpbrain: Frank N Stein: carpbrain: I thought that Michael Moore's film Bowling for Columbine http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310793/ was relatively insightful.

That movie was full of shiat and you should feel bad for mentioning it.

Hmmm wow. I think that was his best film. Not sure where you're going with that one. I still appreciate that folks can make up their own minds about things. But this specific movie . . . I really wish every reader would watch it . . . exposed challenging angles about how it comes about that we are a society that wields lethal weapons.



That movie was a joke....and was full of bullshiat.
 
2013-01-13 04:50:26 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: I'm pro-all-the-ammendments. I still don't understand the obsession with guns - lots and lots of guns. The fact that you conflate your love of firearms with masculinity speaks volumes.



It's about believing in a right, pal.

And the fact that I have met many women who appreciate firearms more than YOU, it speaks volumes.
 
2013-01-13 04:51:08 PM

The_Sponge: Uranus Is Huge!: I'm pro-all-the-ammendments. I still don't understand the obsession with guns - lots and lots of guns. The fact that you conflate your love of firearms with masculinity speaks volumes.


It's about believing in a right, pal.

And the fact that I have met many women who appreciate firearms more than YOU, it speaks volumes.


Lol. How meta.
 
2013-01-13 04:52:12 PM

The_Sponge: carpbrain: Frank N Stein: carpbrain: I thought that Michael Moore's film Bowling for Columbine http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310793/ was relatively insightful.

That movie was full of shiat and you should feel bad for mentioning it.

Hmmm wow. I think that was his best film. Not sure where you're going with that one. I still appreciate that folks can make up their own minds about things. But this specific movie . . . I really wish every reader would watch it . . . exposed challenging angles about how it comes about that we are a society that wields lethal weapons.


That movie was a joke....and was full of bullshiat.


Thanks for your valuable input to the discussion, I'm sure all readers will take note of the value of your input.
 
2013-01-13 04:52:22 PM

carpbrain: Frank N Stein: carpbrain: I thought that Michael Moore's film Bowling for Columbine http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310793/ was relatively insightful.

That movie was full of shiat and you should feel bad for mentioning it.

Hmmm wow. I think that was his best film. Not sure where you're going with that one. I still appreciate that folks can make up their own minds about things. But this specific movie . . . I really wish every reader would watch it . . . exposed challenging angles about how it comes about that we are a society that wields lethal weapons.


I own the DVD and have watched it. It's full of BS. Moore carefully organizes facts in order to craft a narrative that is wholly against reality.
 
2013-01-13 04:52:24 PM

carpbrain: Hmmm wow. I think that was his best film. Not sure where you're going with that one. I still appreciate that folks can make up their own minds about things. But this specific movie . . . I really wish every reader would watch it . . . exposed challenging angles about how it comes about that we are a society that wields lethal weapons.


I should qualify what I said. It is an interesting movie that raises a few good points. However, the film was misleading in a lot of ways.
 
2013-01-13 04:52:43 PM
Me: You think guns equal masculinity.
Derper: I do not. Besides, chicks dig big guns.
Me: (concussive facepalm)
 
2013-01-13 04:55:14 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Giltric: Why is crime lower in VA where the gun laws are lax as opposed to DC?

Because you touch yourself at night.

At no point in your intensely absurd comment did it even begin to occur to you how pointless and irrelevant it is to draw a direct comparison in crime rates between an entire state and a single city?


There are statiscal ways of comparing the two.....like how the anti RKBAers compare the rates of crime in the UK and Australia against the US rate .....but I guess it's only worth comparing when the rate favors your opinion.

Next time just say you got nothing instead of smearing poop on the wall genius.


/don't forget wash your hands.
 
2013-01-13 04:55:26 PM
OK . . . real question here . . . how is that so many utterly defenseless shills for the gun lobby pop out of the woodwork these days in every gun thread? We had a long discussion in another thread about paid shills. It reminds me a lot of the Romney campaign. Maybe money will make things better in terms of public opinion.
 
2013-01-13 04:55:53 PM
Interesting fact about Bowling for Columbine:

After the interview with the South Park guys in the film, Moore follows it up with a cartoon about American history very similar to the style of South Park. Matt and Trey were pissed that (in their opinion) Moore was trying to make it look like they made the cartoon. And that's why Moore was so heavily lampooned in "Team America, World Police"
 
2013-01-13 04:57:18 PM
OK the more astonishing concern . . . it appears that a primary motivation is just making money from selling guns (not from defending freedom etc.) . . . and yet people seem to go along
 
2013-01-13 04:57:48 PM

carpbrain: OK . . . real question here . . . how is that so many utterly defenseless shills for the gun lobby pop out of the woodwork these days in every gun thread? We had a long discussion in another thread about paid shills. It reminds me a lot of the Romney campaign. Maybe money will make things better in terms of public opinion.


Obviously we're all paid shills, since no sensible person can have an opinion counter to your enlightened ideology.
 
2013-01-13 04:59:49 PM

carpbrain: OK the more astonishing concern . . . it appears that a primary motivation is just making money from selling guns (not from defending freedom etc.) . . . and yet people seem to go along


A company's motivation is to make money. YOU MUST TELL ME MORE OF THIS ASTONISHING THEORY!
 
2013-01-13 05:00:02 PM

Frank N Stein: Interesting fact about Bowling for Columbine:

After the interview with the South Park guys in the film, Moore follows it up with a cartoon about American history very similar to the style of South Park. Matt and Trey were pissed that (in their opinion) Moore was trying to make it look like they made the cartoon. And that's why Moore was so heavily lampooned in "Team America, World Police"


hahahahahahahha hope your boss takes your post in a better light than its obvious transparency
 
2013-01-13 05:00:56 PM

carpbrain: OK . . . real question here . . . how is that so many utterly defenseless shills for the gun lobby pop out of the woodwork these days in every gun thread? We had a long discussion in another thread about paid shills. It reminds me a lot of the Romney campaign. Maybe money will make things better in terms of public opinion.


Tinfoil hats only work so well...you would get better results using the hat in combination with a tinfoil suppository.

It creates an impromptu faraday cage that protects you from MLBs hunter-killer satellites.
 
2013-01-13 05:03:16 PM

carpbrain: hahahahahahahha hope your boss takes your post in a better light than its obvious transparency


Are you suggesting that what I said wasn't true?
 
2013-01-13 05:03:22 PM

Frank N Stein: carpbrain: OK the more astonishing concern . . . it appears that a primary motivation is just making money from selling guns (not from defending freedom etc.) . . . and yet people seem to go along

A company's motivation is to make money. YOU MUST TELL ME MORE OF THIS ASTONISHING THEORY!


All of your dishonesty aside . . . could you imagine working for a company that created arms to kill people? By all indications, the answer is yes.
 
2013-01-13 05:03:35 PM

carpbrain: The_Sponge: carpbrain: Frank N Stein: carpbrain: I thought that Michael Moore's film Bowling for Columbine http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310793/ was relatively insightful.

That movie was full of shiat and you should feel bad for mentioning it.

Hmmm wow. I think that was his best film. Not sure where you're going with that one. I still appreciate that folks can make up their own minds about things. But this specific movie . . . I really wish every reader would watch it . . . exposed challenging angles about how it comes about that we are a society that wields lethal weapons.


That movie was a joke....and was full of bullshiat.

Thanks for your valuable input to the discussion, I'm sure all readers will take note of the value of your input.


If one was to create two Venn diagrams; First being pro- and anti-gun, and the second being anti- and pro-Moore, you'd see close to a perfect overlap.
 
2013-01-13 05:05:15 PM

carpbrain: Appreciative of any clever insights on the gun issue.


carpbrain: OK . . . real question here . . . how is that so many utterly defenseless shills for the gun lobby pop out of the woodwork these days in every gun thread? We had a long discussion in another thread about paid shills. It reminds me a lot of the Romney campaign. Maybe money will make things better in terms of public opinion.


Well that went from a request for insight into outright anger fast.
 
2013-01-13 05:05:15 PM

carpbrain: All of your dishonesty aside . . . could you imagine working for a company that created arms to kill people? By all indications, the answer is yes.


If they paid well enough, why not?
 
2013-01-13 05:06:05 PM

Mrbogey: Well that went from a request for insight into outright anger fast.

 
2013-01-13 05:08:08 PM

carpbrain: Frank N Stein: carpbrain: OK the more astonishing concern . . . it appears that a primary motivation is just making money from selling guns (not from defending freedom etc.) . . . and yet people seem to go along

A company's motivation is to make money. YOU MUST TELL ME MORE OF THIS ASTONISHING THEORY!

All of your dishonesty aside . . . could you imagine working for a company that created arms to kill people? By all indications, the answer is yes.


Can you imagine how awful it is to WANT to be a police officer? To want to put people in jail and shoot them? It's awful!

People don't build guns hoping they kill innocent folks.
 
2013-01-13 05:08:17 PM

Giltric: carpbrain: OK . . . real question here . . . how is that so many utterly defenseless shills for the gun lobby pop out of the woodwork these days in every gun thread? We had a long discussion in another thread about paid shills. It reminds me a lot of the Romney campaign. Maybe money will make things better in terms of public opinion.

Tinfoil hats only work so well...you would get better results using the hat in combination with a tinfoil suppository.

It creates an impromptu faraday cage that protects you from MLBs hunter-killer satellites.


??? totally unable to parse anything in this one . . . certainly your sponsors would advocate comprehensibility
 
2013-01-13 05:08:36 PM

Frank N Stein: Mrbogey: Well that went from a request for insight into outright anger fast.


Fark ate my image
 
2013-01-13 05:09:58 PM
For the enthusiasts, when it comes to the 2nd Amendment, the Founding Fathers were wise and omniscient. How dare anyone question them.

Then there's the Founding Fathers' stance on slavery. Oddly enough, there are probably many gun-strokers whose opinon remains exactly the same.
 
2013-01-13 05:13:59 PM

carpbrain: ??? totally unable to parse anything in this one . . . certainly your sponsors would advocate comprehensibility


Listen. I'm going to tell this to your for your own sake. Just stop it.

Yes, you've found out that we're paid to post pro-gun comments at Fark.com. But for your own safety, keep this secret with you. I can't tell you who employs us, but it's powerful people. It goes all the way to the top. Very important and powerful people have their hands in this, people from many different organizations in fact. If you don't cut it out now, they will find you. They will find you and God knows what they will do to you and your family. I shouldn't even be telling you this, ok? You're farking with a hornet nest and they will sting you until you bleed out of your ass hole, you got that? So just listen. Ask the mods to delete your comments. Delete your account. Reset your IP address. Maybe, just maybe they won't find you. Oh God, I cringe at the thought if they get their hands on you. Be safe, and may God have mercy on your soul
 
2013-01-13 05:15:12 PM

Frank N Stein: Yes, you've found out that we're paid to post pro-gun comments at Fark.com. But for your own safety, keep this secret with you. I can't tell you who employs us, but it's powerful people. It goes all the way to the top. Very important and powerful people have their hands in this, people from many different organizations in fact. If you don't cut it out now, they will find you. They will find you and God knows what they will do to you and your family. I shouldn't even be telling you this, ok? You're farking with a hornet nest and they will sting you until you bleed out of your ass hole, you got that? So just listen. Ask the mods to delete your comments. Delete your account. Reset your IP address. Maybe, just maybe they won't find you. Oh God, I cringe at the thought if they get their hands on you. Be safe, and may God have mercy on your soul


It's too late for both of you now.
 
2013-01-13 05:15:24 PM

Mrbogey: carpbrain: Frank N Stein: carpbrain: OK the more astonishing concern . . . it appears that a primary motivation is just making money from selling guns (not from defending freedom etc.) . . . and yet people seem to go along

A company's motivation is to make money. YOU MUST TELL ME MORE OF THIS ASTONISHING THEORY!

All of your dishonesty aside . . . could you imagine working for a company that created arms to kill people? By all indications, the answer is yes.

Can you imagine how awful it is to WANT to be a police officer? To want to put people in jail and shoot them? It's awful!

People don't build guns hoping they kill innocent folks.


Reposted for the sheer pleasure of having people laugh at your post.
 
2013-01-13 05:16:08 PM

Mrbogey: It's too late for both of you now.


If I'm going down I'm taking this whole damn operation down with me. Including you.
 
2013-01-13 05:21:33 PM

The_Sponge: cocksucker.. pussy..... emo... pussified males


I'd normally make a snarky retort, but I don't really think it's necessary in this case.

/ but, no, you totally have a point. All those "men" running around with a small arsenal under their shriveled left testicle because they think the bogeyman is around every corner waiting to rape them are totally the most manly "men" ever

Giltric: There are statiscal ways of comparing the two..


Yea.

And you probably should have tried doing that.

Giltric: Next time just say you got nothing instead of smearing poop on the wall genius.


Uh huh.
 
2013-01-13 05:22:19 PM

carpbrain: I don't realize that about 45% of households in America own a gun, and it's not split down political party lines.


/just clearing things up for you fish for brains.
 
2013-01-13 05:26:12 PM

carpbrain: FNS . . . I've read the polls that show (bizarrely, in my view) that Americans are still in favor of mostly arbitrary gun ownership . . . I'm sure you know that the US is a huge outlier among civilized nations in this respect . . . still trying to get my head around the problem. I thought that Michael Moore's film Bowling for Columbine http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310793/ was relatively insightful. That was a long time ago, and the discussion has not seemed to have moved much since then. Appreciative of any clever insights on the gun issue.


Decibel levels.

The US media can't sell their "journalistic, infotainment-like Art Product" from nuance and rational discussion. They require binary decisions in their endless quest to pander to the lowest common denominator. To that end, the media tends to ignore anyone who might be willing to compromise or who may have a moderate proposal both sides may find interesting. The only people who get air time are those who worship their weapons and those who are pathologically convinced that firearms are somehow manipulating everyone who sees one into becoming a ravening monster bent on slaughter. Since these two groups may be reliably counted upon to deliver sound bites during the six o'clock news, they are presented to the public in general as the only options.

It doesn't help matters that people who might not necessarily be raving gun-grabbers are fond of espousing legislation based on the vaguest understandings of how firearms work, resulting in laws that fail to accomplish anything useful. Opposite these people are the not-necessarily-rabid people who see any attempt to control the sale or possession of firearms as a plot to disarm law-abiding firearms owners. These sort of nuanced differences of opinion could possibly be subject to compromise, were it not for the fanatics at either extreme dominating the public discussion.

When someone who wants to propose legislation adding impediments to civilian firearms ownership, firearms enthusiasts generally start objecting immediately to the terminology used. Poorly-worded legislation is unlikely to accomplish anything more than enraging tens of millions of law-abiding firearms owners, and Congress has a history of passing exactly this sort of law. Many firearms owners would be amenable to honest discussion of the issue, but feel that they're being lied to by people who want to impose more controls on firearms ownership. Most of the vitriol is (IMO) the result of neither side understanding what language the other is speaking. Firearms enthusiasts feel like they're being punished for something they didn't do by people who refuse to learn anything about the weapons they wish to control. Those opposed to civilian firearms ownership are often honestly bewildered by the reaction of firearms enthusiasts to their proposed controls.

Because neither side understands the others' language.

/YMMV
//Not opposed to debate on gun control
///Opposed to feel-good but worthless legislation
 
2013-01-13 05:31:36 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: Abortion became legal in the mid 90s?


Babies commit gun crimes?
 
2013-01-13 05:35:23 PM

Wenchmaster: carpbrain: FNS . . . I've read the polls that show (bizarrely, in my view) that Americans are still in favor of mostly arbitrary gun ownership . . . I'm sure you know that the US is a huge outlier among civilized nations in this respect . . . still trying to get my head around the problem. I thought that Michael Moore's film Bowling for Columbine http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310793/ was relatively insightful. That was a long time ago, and the discussion has not seemed to have moved much since then. Appreciative of any clever insights on the gun issue.

Decibel levels.

The US media can't sell their "journalistic, infotainment-like Art Product" from nuance and rational discussion. They require binary decisions in their endless quest to pander to the lowest common denominator. To that end, the media tends to ignore anyone who might be willing to compromise or who may have a moderate proposal both sides may find interesting. The only people who get air time are those who worship their weapons and those who are pathologically convinced that firearms are somehow manipulating everyone who sees one into becoming a ravening monster bent on slaughter. Since these two groups may be reliably counted upon to deliver sound bites during the six o'clock news, they are presented to the public in general as the only options.

It doesn't help matters that people who might not necessarily be raving gun-grabbers are fond of espousing legislation based on the vaguest understandings of how firearms work, resulting in laws that fail to accomplish anything useful. Opposite these people are the not-necessarily-rabid people who see any attempt to control the sale or possession of firearms as a plot to disarm law-abiding firearms owners. These sort of nuanced differences of opinion could possibly be subject to compromise, were it not for the fanatics at either extreme dominating the public discussion.

When someone who wants to propose legislation adding impediments to civilian firearms o ...


Read your post a few times, still soaking in the meaning. But yes the basic deal is finding some understanding between the sides. It shouldn't be so hard . . . we are all caring humans.
 
2013-01-13 05:42:51 PM

Lionel Mandrake: GAT_00: Yes, I'm sure there are no robberies in states like Arizona that have open carry legal.

It's a well-known fact that death penalty states have minuscule murder rates compared to non-DP states, too.


And we know that states that have the most severe penalties for the most minor of infractions have incredibly low crime rates.

That even extends to other planets, like on Edo, where trampling on flowers is a mandatory death sentence! No one commits a crime there, ever! Except for foolish young Starfleet cadets who didn't know any better!
 
2013-01-13 05:49:21 PM

Frank N Stein: If I'm going down I'm taking this whole damn operation down with me. Including you.


Good luck, I'm behind 8 proxies.

carpbrain: Reposted for the sheer pleasure of having people laugh at your post.


Do you have some info that I don't? Do gun makers make guns hoping they kill people? There are over 300 million guns in America. Have there been 300 million homicides in America?
 
2013-01-13 05:51:26 PM
It's been like 10 threads of gun control, and I have yet to see a gun grabber show evidence that gun control reduces gun crime. Every single one of these threads has nothing but frothy, emotional, zealots proposing gun control.
 
2013-01-13 05:56:16 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: And you probably should have tried doing that.


Why?

Twenty threads later and you still have your your fingers in your ear.

DC has 17.5 murders per 100k
Virginia Beach has 3.4 murders per 100k

If you don't like my stats....go get your own stats on your way to your shine box kiddo.
If I was a betting man I would wager a fark ton of TF that you continue to stick your fingers in your ear in the next thread.....but I am not a betting man....because people like you don't pay up.
 
2013-01-13 05:59:09 PM

neenerist: Uranus Is Huge!: Abortion became legal in the mid 90s?

Babies commit gun crimes?


You must have missed my mea culpa upthread.
 
2013-01-13 06:05:05 PM

Giltric: If you don't like my stats....go get your own stats on your way to your shine box kiddo.


Louisiana, having among the weakest gun laws of any state, has by far the highest gun-related homicide rate per capita. Or perhaps we could discuss Mississippi, another high-gun-crime, low-gun-restriction state. Or Nevada. Or South Carolina. Or New Mexico. Or Arizona. I stopped checking after the top 10 states for getting killed by guns.

But, no, your tiny little data point in the middle of a state with incredibly lax gun laws probably means that guns aren't part of the problem so we shouldn't even discuss it.

/ now go away and stop being stupid
 
2013-01-13 06:24:57 PM

Wooly Bully: The easier it is to get guns, the fewer crimes will be committed with guns! There are people who actually believe this.

I enjoy shooting, but I'm so f*cking sick of "gun people".


So much this.

I'm a former reservist, I love the outdoors (Hunting, fishing, etc), I love just target shooting when I can. While I don't even own a gun (yet! I just haven't gotten around to it), I like them, and I like the idea that people can get them for personal use.

And, that said, I wholeheartedly support measures intended to keep the legal gun supply from being used in crime. Yes, criminals will break the law; that's why we have police, and a prison system.
 
2013-01-13 06:38:03 PM

LavenderWolf: And, that said, I wholeheartedly support measures intended to keep the legal gun supply from being used in crime. Yes, criminals will break the law; that's why we have police, and a prison system.


I own two guns. A rifle and a handgun. I just think it's beyond idiotic that these people think that the only facet of gun violence in this country that has to be completely off the table is guns.

I really have exactly zero problem getting carded to buy ammo or have to undergo a simple mental health evaluation to buy a goddamn rifle capable of mowing down 30 people in 2 minutes. Because that's reasonable when we're talking about buying deadly weapons.

With these nuts, though, it has nothing to do with reason. All they care about is that they've allowed to continue to live out their paranoid fantasies without any responsibility. They're children. Children with deadly weapons. And it's far beyond time it stopped because 9000 dead people a year isn't acceptable just so they can continue to pretend that zombie Hitler is one vote away from taking over the presidency or that they're one day away from needing to go Rambo in their town to save it from some imagined incursion.
 
2013-01-13 06:53:29 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Giltric: If you don't like my stats....go get your own stats on your way to your shine box kiddo.

Louisiana, having among the weakest gun laws of any state, has by far the highest gun-related homicide rate per capita. Or perhaps we could discuss Mississippi, another high-gun-crime, low-gun-restriction state. Or Nevada. Or South Carolina. Or New Mexico. Or Arizona. I stopped checking after the top 10 states for getting killed by guns.

But, no, your tiny little data point in the middle of a state with incredibly lax gun laws probably means that guns aren't part of the problem so we shouldn't even discuss it.

/ now go away and stop being stupid


You are both being stupid.
Gun crime tends to happen in high population areas. Areas with bad economic conditions or enforcement problems (which also stem from money issues) have more of a problem.
A focus on firearms doesn't give anyone the results they want, so I'd say the plan to look for scapegoats won't be anywhere nearly as effective as realizing crime is a disease.
It needs to be treated with science, not by demonizing political opponents.
 
2013-01-13 06:59:40 PM

way south: A focus on firearms doesn't give anyone the results they want


No shiat, sherlock. Since it's a multi-faceted problem, a focus on any one thing won't fix it. But as a multi-faceted problem, you need to look at all facets, and one facet of EVERY gun crime is the fact that the asshole got hold of a gun.
 
2013-01-13 07:11:21 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: way south: A focus on firearms doesn't give anyone the results they want

No shiat, sherlock. Since it's a multi-faceted problem, a focus on any one thing won't fix it. But as a multi-faceted problem, you need to look at all facets, and one facet of EVERY gun crime is the fact that the asshole got hold of a gun.


Except we've already been over the fact that the assault weapons ban did nothing. So try DIFFERENT things instead of insisting that no matter what we try next, it include banning various guns "just because", and the gun enthusiasts will help out, because everybody wants mass killings to stop. But if you continue to insist on attacking our freedoms especially when it's been shown through a 10 year trial that your strategy doesn't work, then we'll fight you tooth and nail. So the question is, do you want the killings to stop, or do you just want to ban guns?
 
2013-01-13 07:17:50 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld:  So the question is, do you want the killings to stop, or do you just want to ban guns?


How about we just nuke the planet. Everyone dead, no more problem. fark, it's at least doing something that doesn't involve the farking GUNS.
 
2013-01-13 07:18:12 PM
A very, very limited ban on one particular type of firearm "didn't work," therefore any attempt to limit access to firearms is futile.
 
2013-01-13 07:39:01 PM

Toots de la Footsjelly: Time for Thunder Dome!!!

Wooly Bully:
The easier it is to get guns, the fewer crimes will be committed with guns! There are people who actually believe this.
I enjoy shooting, but I'm so f*cking sick of "gun people".
THIS THIS THIS THIS X 1000! THANK YOU MR. BULLY!


Its not "easy" to get a gun. Every fire arm i have has resulted in me notifying the TBI and submitting myself to a check of my criminal history. If i had a record it would have been a big no no.

The cowards, sissies, and pantywaists who want to disarm us act like making it harder for me, will keep Dewinky and little nay nay from selling eachother guns. They dont care. They dont buy them legally anyway.

Mr. Im gonna go nuts one day will go nuts one day anyway. Guns or no. Meanwhile i would like to be able to protect myself and my family from any harm that befalls us.
 
2013-01-13 07:42:48 PM

preybyemail: Toots de la Footsjelly: Time for Thunder Dome!!!

Wooly Bully:
The easier it is to get guns, the fewer crimes will be committed with guns! There are people who actually believe this.
I enjoy shooting, but I'm so f*cking sick of "gun people".
THIS THIS THIS THIS X 1000! THANK YOU MR. BULLY!

Its not "easy" to get a gun. Every fire arm i have has resulted in me notifying the TBI and submitting myself to a check of my criminal history. If i had a record it would have been a big no no.

The cowards, sissies, and pantywaists who want to disarm us act like making it harder for me, will keep Dewinky and little nay nay from selling eachother guns. They dont care. They dont buy them legally anyway.

Mr. Im gonna go nuts one day will go nuts one day anyway. Guns or no. Meanwhile i would like to be able to protect myself and my family from any harm that befalls us.


Frightened, stupid and racist is no way to go through life, son.

If you need a gun to feel safe and you're not currently deployed in Afghanistan, you're doing it wrong.
 
2013-01-13 07:49:23 PM
And we explain the 391 robberies and 93 aggravated assaults in 2009 (the last major statistics collection point) how, exactly, then?

Because on average there's going to be more than one armed crime a day in BC, bans in place or no, four or five of them clustering together at some point in the space of several days isn't a "rash of robberies", it's the inevitable result of statistics and the normal crime rate.

//Source

Vegan Meat Popsicle: I own two guns. A rifle and a handgun. I just think it's beyond idiotic that these people think that the only facet of gun violence in this country that has to be completely off the table is guns.

I really have exactly zero problem getting carded to buy ammo or have to undergo a simple mental health evaluation to buy a goddamn rifle capable of mowing down 30 people in 2 minutes.


Since you don't seem to understand that you're talking about a constitutional right, here's what you're saying converted to a different amendment:

"I own two blogs. A news blog and a politics blog. I just think it's beyond idiotic that these people think that the only facet of starting fights in this country that has to be completely off the table is political speech.

I really have exactly zero problem getting carded to make a post expressing a political opinion or have to undergo a simple mental health evaluation to buy a modem capable of encouraging 30 crazy people to be crazier in 2 minutes."

Free speech registration time!

//Not that there aren't valid arguments regarding trade regulations on firearm, but yours is not one of them.
 
2013-01-13 07:49:55 PM

preybyemail: Its not "easy" to get a gun. Every fire arm i have has resulted in me notifying the TBI and submitting myself to a check of my criminal history. If i had a record it would have been a big no no.


It took me less than one minute to find 13 handguns within 10 miles of my house that I could almost certainly legally buy by noon tomorrow in cash without a background check.

But, no, I'm sure you're fully informed and honest and there's no reason to suspect that your comments should just be ignored outright.
 
2013-01-13 07:50:58 PM

Jim_Callahan: Since you don't seem to understand that you're talking about a constitutional right


I ignored the rest of your comment since "the second amendment is the only one that shouldn't have any limitations" isn't a valid argument.
 
2013-01-13 07:52:40 PM

Jim_Callahan: And we explain the 391 robberies and 93 aggravated assaults in 2009 (the last major statistics collection point) how, exactly, then?

Because on average there's going to be more than one armed crime a day in BC, bans in place or no, four or five of them clustering together at some point in the space of several days isn't a "rash of robberies", it's the inevitable result of statistics and the normal crime rate.

//Source

Vegan Meat Popsicle: I own two guns. A rifle and a handgun. I just think it's beyond idiotic that these people think that the only facet of gun violence in this country that has to be completely off the table is guns.

I really have exactly zero problem getting carded to buy ammo or have to undergo a simple mental health evaluation to buy a goddamn rifle capable of mowing down 30 people in 2 minutes.

Since you don't seem to understand that you're talking about a constitutional right, here's what you're saying converted to a different amendment:

"I own two blogs. A news blog and a politics blog. I just think it's beyond idiotic that these people think that the only facet of starting fights in this country that has to be completely off the table is political speech.

I really have exactly zero problem getting carded to make a post expressing a political opinion or have to undergo a simple mental health evaluation to buy a modem capable of encouraging 30 crazy people to be crazier in 2 minutes."

Free speech registration time!

//Not that there aren't valid arguments regarding trade regulations on firearm, but yours is not one of them.


I'll register my right to free speech as soon as I can kill a room full of kids with my voice. Every right has restrictions needed for society to function.
 
2013-01-13 07:57:20 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: I'll register my right to free speech as soon as I can kill a room full of kids with my voice. Every right has restrictions needed for society to function.


No no no. His post made total sense. The relevant bit isn't that both rights CAN have restrictions placed on them according to their capacity for inflicting harm to others and the type of restriction required to restrict that harm, it's that if there ARE restrictions the ONLY way there can be restrictions is if they're exactly the same.
/ gun nut logic
 
2013-01-13 08:00:29 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: I'll register my right to free speech as soon as I can kill a room full of kids with my voice. Every right has restrictions needed for society to function.


Pretty much every spree killer is a direct result of the media fawning over spree killer stories like a child over a new puppy. Since the shooting sprees are the pretext for the push for gun control this time, only seems reasonable to impose similar limits on speech, since it's probably more ultimately responsible for said deaths than the tools used directly.
 
2013-01-13 08:03:52 PM
Are people still trying to make that argument? Having spotty gun laws is like having dry counties - just hop over a municipal line and buy all the guns you want. Now, if they couldn't cross the river and by guns...
 
2013-01-13 08:06:43 PM

Jim_Callahan: Pretty much every spree killer is a direct result of the media fawning over spree killer stories like a child over a new puppy.


Can I see your PhD before you forward me your peer-reviewed study proving that rather daring assertion?
 
2013-01-13 08:08:06 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: A very, very limited ban on one particular type of firearm "didn't work," therefore any attempt to limit access to firearms is futile.


It is futile, because the only thing left, and the type of gun responsible for the most gun deaths is the handgun, but then you'd be violating people's right of self preservation if you banned it. That means bans are off the table. If the gun grabbers are as smart as they like to tell everyone they are, I'm sure they can find alternatives that keep everyone happy. Surely you don't think there's only a singe solution to the problem.
 
2013-01-13 08:25:28 PM
Yup, people breaking laws is proof that laws don't work and we should live in anarchy. People break tax laws, so why bother trying? People break gun laws, so why bother trying? People break espionage laws, so why bother with laws against such things...

logic, how does it work?
 
2013-01-13 08:30:22 PM

GAT_00: Larry Niven is close to approving.


Well, that's either Cloak of Anarchy or the pre-Boosterspice era of organ harvesting / capital punishment for everything. The latter fits better.
 
2013-01-13 08:33:41 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Giltric: If you don't like my stats....go get your own stats on your way to your shine box kiddo.

Louisiana, having among the weakest gun laws of any state, has by far the highest gun-related homicide rate per capita. Or perhaps we could discuss Mississippi, another high-gun-crime, low-gun-restriction state. Or Nevada. Or South Carolina. Or New Mexico. Or Arizona. I stopped checking after the top 10 states for getting killed by guns.

But, no, your tiny little data point in the middle of a state with incredibly lax gun laws probably means that guns aren't part of the problem so we shouldn't even discuss it.

/ now go away and stop being stupid


Well we are comparing Washington DC to Virginia...the place where the democrats...err criminals of Washington DC are getting their firearms, correct?

Maybe I was supposed to get stats from North Kakkalakka?

But regardless..you didn't post any cites cause you were too busy moving them thar goalposts.
 
2013-01-13 08:38:03 PM

Jim_Callahan: Uranus Is Huge!: I'll register my right to free speech as soon as I can kill a room full of kids with my voice. Every right has restrictions needed for society to function.

Pretty much every spree killer is a direct result of the media fawning over spree killer stories like a child over a new puppy. Since the shooting sprees are the pretext for the push for gun control this time, only seems reasonable to impose similar limits on speech, since it's probably more ultimately responsible for said deaths than the tools used directly.


The media causes spree killing?

I have no response to this. Congratulations.
 
2013-01-13 08:44:47 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Uranus Is Huge!: A very, very limited ban on one particular type of firearm "didn't work," therefore any attempt to limit access to firearms is futile.

It is futile, because the only thing left, and the type of gun responsible for the most gun deaths is the handgun, but then you'd be violating people's right of self preservation if you banned it. That means bans are off the table. If the gun grabbers are as smart as they like to tell everyone they are, I'm sure they can find alternatives that keep everyone happy. Surely you don't think there's only a singe solution to the problem.


I guess it's futile as long as people would rather cling to an antiquated document written by a bunch of old white guys that were okay with slavery, than use common sense to create a society where people can feel safe without a firearm.
 
2013-01-13 08:47:09 PM
Lanza changed magazines frequently as he fired his way through the first-grade classrooms of Lauren Rousseau and Victoria Soto, sometimes shooting as few as 15 shots from a 30-round magazine, sources said.

Wierd, ran across this today......guess a high cap mag ban wouldn't have done anything either...article was from january 6th so enough time to get real info and not rumor...as far as unnamed sources....probably a cop who doesn;t want to break the blue wall since cops want to outgun everyone else in their quest to become para military units.

Dude wore ear plugs so as to not damage his hearing in the long term....like in the 20 minutes he had left to live before he offed himself.
 
2013-01-13 09:15:29 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: way south: A focus on firearms doesn't give anyone the results they want

No shiat, sherlock. Since it's a multi-faceted problem, a focus on any one thing won't fix it. But as a multi-faceted problem, you need to look at all facets, and one facet of EVERY gun crime is the fact that the asshole got hold of a gun.


It is also a fact that a most gun owners, the people you persist in trying to regulate at every opportunity, are defensive buyers.
Crooks aren't running that eleven billion dollar gun industry. Its the good guys that do most of the buying.
On the slim chance you'll stop one bad guy from getting a gun, you would attack millions of good guys.

The majority of gun owners, just as the majority of the population, are not criminals. They want to protect themselves.
They want security from the same tools used by cops and politicians to secure their own homes.
Guns follow crime, they don't cause it. Gun ownership and shootings are a symptom of a larger disease that is rooted in violence and fear.

Lets just be clear that people don't want to be robbed and stabbed more often then told that this is an improvement.
They want less crime. If you fail at delivering that they'll take matters into their own hands.

You are then behaving like a priest who rages when someone points out that antibiotics work better than prayer.
You deride their abuse of drugs and then You say you want a multifaceted solution... one that includes more facets of prayer.

Others know what works and they'll continue to do it no matter what you say.
The best course of action here is to either learn from your mistakes or get out of the way of those who have.

If you want to reduce the number of guns, you deal with the crime first.
 
2013-01-13 09:59:54 PM

Mrbogey: PDid: Good stuff from the Washington post. Red states provide crime guns to Blue states


[i.imgur.com image 850x556]

DC has one FFL who was located at the police station. It's almost by definition either everyone using a gun in a crime there has to be a legal buyer or an importer.


Actually, that guy "went out of business." Despite the Heller decision you cannot legally buy a gun in DC or legally transfer it into DC.

For a little bit there after Heller, that guy was making bank by charging outrageous transfer fees and only the rich could afford to transfer a gun legally into DC.
 
2013-01-13 10:01:50 PM

Lochsteppe: Frank N Stein: NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.

"But officer, I'm only driving through to go hunting 3 counties over"

"Doesn't matter. THIS county has a law saying all ammunition must be kept separate from firearms when transporting. You have your shotgun shells in the same case as your gun. You're going to jail for life"

Awesome law, NewportBarGuy.

I've always been told that responsible gun owners will voluntarily and proactively research the gun laws of whatever area they're traveling to or through, in order to be sure that they're compliant and respectful. Clearly your fantasy scenario couldn't happen to a responsible gun owner.


I live in a county where its illegal to transport firearms unless you are traveling to or from the range or gunsmith, etc.

So things get confusing if you cross the county line and really need to take a piss.
 
HBK
2013-01-13 10:34:22 PM

Wenchmaster: carpbrain: FNS . . . I've read the polls that show (bizarrely, in my view) that Americans are still in favor of mostly arbitrary gun ownership . . . I'm sure you know that the US is a huge outlier among civilized nations in this respect . . . still trying to get my head around the problem. I thought that Michael Moore's film Bowling for Columbine http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310793/ was relatively insightful. That was a long time ago, and the discussion has not seemed to have moved much since then. Appreciative of any clever insights on the gun issue.

Decibel levels.

The US media can't sell their "journalistic, infotainment-like Art Product" from nuance and rational discussion. They require binary decisions in their endless quest to pander to the lowest common denominator. To that end, the media tends to ignore anyone who might be willing to compromise or who may have a moderate proposal both sides may find interesting. The only people who get air time are those who worship their weapons and those who are pathologically convinced that firearms are somehow manipulating everyone who sees one into becoming a ravening monster bent on slaughter. Since these two groups may be reliably counted upon to deliver sound bites during the six o'clock news, they are presented to the public in general as the only options.

It doesn't help matters that people who might not necessarily be raving gun-grabbers are fond of espousing legislation based on the vaguest understandings of how firearms work, resulting in laws that fail to accomplish anything useful. Opposite these people are the not-necessarily-rabid people who see any attempt to control the sale or possession of firearms as a plot to disarm law-abiding firearms owners. These sort of nuanced differences of opinion could possibly be subject to compromise, were it not for the fanatics at either extreme dominating the public discussion.

When someone who wants to propose legislation adding impediments to civilian firearms o ...


Amongst all the stupid, retarded posts by idiots on both sides of the issue, this post arises. Thank you Wenchmaster, for trying to bring reason to the debate.

/gun owner
//Feels exactly the same as wenchmaster
 
2013-01-13 10:44:48 PM

Giltric: Empty Matchbook: Peter von Nostrand: Hahahaha. Too funny subs. Everyone knows violence is due to video games and Hollywood. Saint LaPierre said so himself

Seeing as how he hasn't been drummed out of the NRA, I can only assume a majority of their members agree!
Video Games are violent, especially the first person shooters that advertise their games being as real as it gets without actually dying....and that also promote killing more and more people in order to unlock or gain access to higher powered in game weapons to kill more and more people with..they even employ behavioral specialist to design mechanics that keep people playing.....do you disagree?


Never heard that promotion (as real as it gets without dying). And...yeah, they keep people playing...not...killing, what's your point? Because "behavior specialists" have also concluded that video games do not make people any more violent in the long term. And since the same videogames Americans play are exported worldwide without the corresponding increase in violent behavior, oh HAI! It must be something else.

Besides that: your arguments are weirdly vague and also don't really prove any points, so...I guess I won't contradict them? Game makers want people to keep playing their games: Film at 11.
 
2013-01-13 11:10:13 PM

pueblonative: doglover: SharkInfested: Waiting for the one teabagger who spouts off about taxation to take up the cause of those of us who are actually taxed without representation

America was founded by people who violently opposed taxation without representation. They even rebelled twice after Hamilton tried to tax whiskey.
d.


and both of those rebellions went oh so well for the rebels:

Shays Rebellion


Whiskey Rebellion


There was never a pitched battle with the army.
Alexander Hamilton was shot dead at some point later.
Appalachians STILL don't pay tax on whiskey.
 
2013-01-13 11:14:06 PM

lordjupiter: Clearly the answer is to let the states decide everything.

Oh wait, the borders aren't secure and one state's laws will cause problems for the neighboring state. I guess we need fences around every state with checkpoints at every entrance so that people can be screened for compliance to the applicable laws.


I guess you never drove to California on one of the Interstate routes.
 
2013-01-13 11:36:12 PM

The_Sponge: I love it when liberals or leftists talk about personal responsibility. It's a joke.
And why are so many pussified males on the side on gun control?


I love how you guys keep saying that guns have nothing to do with penises and overcompensating, but if a man doesn't want to own a gun, he's "pussified."

Pussies, penises. Nope, no connection.
 
2013-01-14 12:14:22 AM

Empty Matchbook: Giltric: Empty Matchbook: Peter von Nostrand: Hahahaha. Too funny subs. Everyone knows violence is due to video games and Hollywood. Saint LaPierre said so himself

Seeing as how he hasn't been drummed out of the NRA, I can only assume a majority of their members agree!
Video Games are violent, especially the first person shooters that advertise their games being as real as it gets without actually dying....and that also promote killing more and more people in order to unlock or gain access to higher powered in game weapons to kill more and more people with..they even employ behavioral specialist to design mechanics that keep people playing.....do you disagree?

Never heard that promotion (as real as it gets without dying). And...yeah, they keep people playing...not...killing, what's your point? Because "behavior specialists" have also concluded that video games do not make people any more violent in the long term. And since the same videogames Americans play are exported worldwide without the corresponding increase in violent behavior, oh HAI! It must be something else.

Besides that: your arguments are weirdly vague and also don't really prove any points, so...I guess I won't contradict them? Game makers want people to keep playing their games: Film at 11.


Other countries censor and outright ban video games due to high impact violence...Germany, the UK, Australia etc all do this...

LinkStudies have been done...and show increased activity in the emotional arousal sections of the brain and a decrease of activity in the self control sections of the brain while the gamer plays a violent video game.
A different study was done and shows the same thing happens when you show people violent movies. Now what does that mean to the average person...maybe nothing....but what about the broken humans like the Columbine killers and the Newtown shooter? I mean spree killing is an actual rare phenomenon in the scheme of things...maybe as rare as people acting out on the violence they experience in the video games they play hours upon hours a day, day in and day out.

The gaming industry is a multi billion dollar a year industry...they have their own research results that they pay for.....so depending on the behavior specialists it's nothing to worry about...or it might be a proble depending on who funded the study.
But maybe it is something esle.......maybe its the medication most if not all of these spree killers were on...or maybe a combination of the two farking with peoples brain chemistry and activity.

We have 88 firearms per 100 people.....if the firearm was to blame....what do you think this countries rate of violence would be? Is it low for such a well armed country or is it high?

You don't use behavior specialists to keep people playing games....you use them to get them hooked, like a dealer giving out free samples of crack....games have started using microtransactions as a source of revenue...because people spend even more money than if it was a monthly fee or a retail price for a box off the shelf....because they are hooked.
 
2013-01-14 01:58:21 AM
Despite all the laws against molesting children, there are still child molesters molesting millions of children every year.

The solution isn't more laws against molesting children. What we really need to do is admit our laws against molesting children don't work and get rid of them altogether.
 
2013-01-14 03:12:26 AM

NewportBarGuy: OK, how about federal minimum sentence of life in prison for any gun crime whatsoever? No appeal, no parole. Nothing. You do ANY crime with a gun, you go away for life.

You asked for it, there it is.


Problem with "no appeal" is that people get wrongly convicted all of the time. People have died on death row because dirty cops framed them, or prosecutors were so sure that they had the right guy that they didn't follow rules, such as sharing evidence. There have been cases where the prosecution (and the judge) have refused to allow evidence that exonerates the defendant, or have actively buried it. Then, you also have people appealing their case because their lawyer was inept.

Too many innocent people getting convicted for me to even consider the phrase 'No appeal', sorry.
 
2013-01-14 04:28:37 AM
This whole gun debate has turned me from a flaming liberal to a teabagger (almost). This is farking stupid. The gun control crowd is saying all they want to do is stop people from buying assault weapons and high capacity clips, right? But what they really propose is making some arbitrary list of "mentally defective" persons to put in a database. And then maybe another list of people known to play Grand Theft Auto and maybe downloaded a copy of Natural Born Losers from a .torrent. You have to keep track of these losers and we already have NSA on the job. So lets just change the law from tracking terrorists in Pakistan to Indiana-stan and voila! instant gun control.

Forget about the fact that the current law prohibits about half the American population from owning a firearm because that's about how many people are either in prison, on probation/parole, subject to some kind of restraining order, or just some guy who farked up as a kid by doing something stupid and forfeited his 2nd Amendment rights.

This is bullshiat. There a millions of law abiding Americans who can't even touch a gun or a bullet without the fear of going to prison. While his neighbor, who might be a total jackass gets a pass because he happens to fall into one of the exemptions, and probably had the money to hire a lawyer to be allowed to carry a gun all the time.

Either we all have a right to self defense or not. If not, then these assholes saying they only want to outlaw assault weapons (but really mean they want keep as many people as possible from having a gun as they can) ought to push a farking repeal of the 2nd Amendment.

The way it is now is just wrong. It's like tax reform; you can't fix part of the problem without addressing the entire issue. But they won't, they'll dick around and hurt those on the bottom of the totem pole as usual.

The only really smart thing to do now is buy a gun before it's too late.
 
2013-01-14 05:55:31 AM

Taylor Mental: what they really propose is making some arbitrary list of "mentally defective" persons to put in a database. And then maybe another list of people known to play Grand Theft Auto and maybe downloaded a copy of Natural Born Losers from a .torrent.


Don't let things like this surprise you.
What people forget is this was a part of the gun control plan from the start. Proponents wanted to make ownership obsolete by piling on more "reasonable" hurdles than you can mount.

Let us scroll back to well before we had a mass shooter of the month issue and remember what gun owners said when the Brady bill and AWB were going into effect: "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". It means that if we cut off the path to legal ownership it wont wont stop shootings. People bent on getting weapons will still find a way.

Since then we have made a background check system to determine who the "good people" are. Some places also kept feature bans and waiting periods.
When Adam Lanza was discouraged from getting weapons legally, he went on to murder his own mother and steal hers.

How does the proposed solution to such an issue become "more lists"?
Its because the plan isn't about stopping mayhem, its about getting everyone on a list.

The people never asked for a gun ban, they want to know what we can do to stop crime. They want to hear about the health care, the jobs, and the social reforms.
The new solution became "lets sell gun control as if it was an anti-crime measure because... more lists".

That stll doesn't stop crime.
As a side effect, because people aren't as stupid as politicians think we are:

dl.dropbox.com

/On a side note: "Dear FN: Your SCAR sucks so much that no one wants it. Even in an Apocalypse."
 
2013-01-14 07:51:17 AM

Jim_Callahan: And we explain the 391 robberies and 93 aggravated assaults in 2009 (the last major statistics collection point) how, exactly, then?

Because on average there's going to be more than one armed crime a day in BC, bans in place or no, four or five of them clustering together at some point in the space of several days isn't a "rash of robberies", it's the inevitable result of statistics and the normal crime rate.

//Source

Vegan Meat Popsicle: I own two guns. A rifle and a handgun. I just think it's beyond idiotic that these people think that the only facet of gun violence in this country that has to be completely off the table is guns.

I really have exactly zero problem getting carded to buy ammo or have to undergo a simple mental health evaluation to buy a goddamn rifle capable of mowing down 30 people in 2 minutes.

Since you don't seem to understand that you're talking about a constitutional right, here's what you're saying converted to a different amendment:

"I own two blogs. A news blog and a politics blog. I just think it's beyond idiotic that these people think that the only facet of starting fights in this country that has to be completely off the table is political speech.

I really have exactly zero problem getting carded to make a post expressing a political opinion or have to undergo a simple mental health evaluation to buy a modem capable of encouraging 30 crazy people to be crazier in 2 minutes."

Free speech registration time!

//Not that there aren't valid arguments regarding trade regulations on firearm, but yours is not one of them.


Fallacy of false equivalency.
 
2013-01-14 09:10:50 AM

Wooly Bully: doglover: Wooly Bully: The easier it is to get guns, the fewer crimes will be committed with guns! There are people who actually believe this.

I enjoy shooting, but I'm so f*cking sick of "gun people".

Guns are ALREADY saturated.

That ship sailed in 1776. Any criminal who wants a gun in America has a gun already.

Increasing regulations will just make the felony of having an illegal gun more of a felony. Pointless.

That's right! Existing gun laws are a disaster. What kind of an idiot would want to change them?


So if they passed laws saying Pi = 3 or making suicide illegal you think it should stay on the books and be selectively enforced. Made up offences almost never enforced but used by lazy D.A.s to get plea bargains that count on their records as convictions do nothing to reduce crime. There are enough laws on the books that anybody, including you, can be charged and convicted of a felony they didn't even know was a crime. Murder, Rape, Robbery, Assault, any crime of violence you can think of is already a illegal whether it is committed with a gun or a shovel. It is a Federal offence for a prohibited person to attempt, not succeed, to buy a gun. That Federal Law is almost never enforced, why do you think that is? Just like the Sullivan Act, it was passed so it could be used against the "enemies" of a corrupt politician to eliminate competition. Eventually your corrupt and faithless politicians will be replaced by my corrupt and faithless politicians. Don't encourage passing laws you wouldn't want to see selectively enforced by your opposition.
 
2013-01-14 09:13:59 AM

Uranus Is Huge!: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Uranus Is Huge!: A very, very limited ban on one particular type of firearm "didn't work," therefore any attempt to limit access to firearms is futile.

It is futile, because the only thing left, and the type of gun responsible for the most gun deaths is the handgun, but then you'd be violating people's right of self preservation if you banned it. That means bans are off the table. If the gun grabbers are as smart as they like to tell everyone they are, I'm sure they can find alternatives that keep everyone happy. Surely you don't think there's only a singe solution to the problem.

I guess it's futile as long as people would rather cling to an antiquated document written by a bunch of old white guys that were okay with slavery, than use common sense to create a society where people can feel safe without a firearm.


Banning weapons doesn't magically rid the world of criminals. So why would your efforts make anyone feel safer without a firearm? It's amazing to me how comfortably you people spew out these logical fallacies.
 
2013-01-14 09:41:41 AM

Yakk: PDid: Good stuff from the Washington post. Red states provide crime guns to Blue states


[i.imgur.com image 850x556]

Nonsense, criminals are born with guns, only law abiding citizens purchase them.


Actually it is Blue State Criminals that IMPORT guns from where ever they can find them. No one loads up an 18 wheeler, drives to a Blue state to set up shop on a corner. The Blue states Black Markets pay good prices for guns that the government can't control just like they pay good prices for drugs. The only guns they don't actively seek out are the ones the criminals take with them when they move into a Blue state for the easy pickings and free stuff from the government. The last arrest I've noticed in the news for trafficking guns into a Blue state were a group of Cops importing guns into NYC.
 
2013-01-14 10:19:44 AM

Giltric: Well we are comparing Washington DC to Virginia...


No, not WE. YOU'RE doing that. I'M not an idiot.

way south: It is also a fact that a most gun owners, the people you persist in trying to regulate at every opportunity, are defensive buyers.


While we're just arbitrarily making up "facts", allow me: the fact is everything you ever said or ever will say is wrong, therefore, I win.

Or was I supposed to keep reading after you decided to start your post out with something you just pulled out of your ass?
 
2013-01-14 10:30:58 AM

ex-nuke: Don't encourage passing laws you wouldn't want to see selectively enforced by your opposition.


Anything can be abused, therefore everything should be abolished!

Shine on, you crazy diamond.
 
2013-01-14 11:13:01 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Uranus Is Huge!: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Uranus Is Huge!: A very, very limited ban on one particular type of firearm "didn't work," therefore any attempt to limit access to firearms is futile.

It is futile, because the only thing left, and the type of gun responsible for the most gun deaths is the handgun, but then you'd be violating people's right of self preservation if you banned it. That means bans are off the table. If the gun grabbers are as smart as they like to tell everyone they are, I'm sure they can find alternatives that keep everyone happy. Surely you don't think there's only a singe solution to the problem.

I guess it's futile as long as people would rather cling to an antiquated document written by a bunch of old white guys that were okay with slavery, than use common sense to create a society where people can feel safe without a firearm.

Banning weapons doesn't magically rid the world of criminals. So why would your efforts make anyone feel safer without a firearm? It's amazing to me how comfortably you people spew out these logical fallacies.


There is literally nothing I can say that will make you believe that we would be better off with less firearms. We have fundamental differences that make it impossible to agree. I'm going to stop trying now. Feel free to interpret this as another victory against the gun-grabbers.
 
2013-01-14 11:28:10 AM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: No, not WE. YOU'RE doing that. I'M not an idiot.


I have a different opinion about that


Giltric
Smartest
Funniest
2013-01-13 04:08:47 PM
Wooly Bully: Vegan Meat Popsicle: The_Sponge: I love all the gun grabbers who want to take away the rights from those of us who live in freedom-loving states.

Freedom means never having to be responsible for anything you do! FREEDOM!

I have relatives in Virginia, and boy, are those mofos free! They're so free, they're the number one exporter of guns used in crimes outside their own incredibly free state. There are people who literally make a living buying guns in VA and selling them on the street in other states. FREEDOM!
Why is crime lower in VA where the gun laws are lax as opposed to DC?
Is everyone commuting to DC tin order to perpetrate crime and mess with the statisticals?


So tell me why crime isn't higher in the state that has lax gun laws and exports guns to other states with strict gun control laws.......you know...as proof you are not an idiot.
I see you spew alot of insults and no substance.....maybe you are just trolling, an idiot, or some paid shill for the Brady Campaign....take your pick.
 
2013-01-14 11:59:44 AM

Giltric: you are just trolling, an idiot, or some paid shill for the Brady Campaign


This is amazing. I'm all of those things! You're too smart for me, I give up.
 
2013-01-14 12:37:48 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: There is literally nothing I can say that will make you believe that we would be better off with less firearms. We have fundamental differences that make it impossible to agree. I'm going to stop trying now. Feel free to interpret this as another victory against the gun-grabbers.


You could always just show some proof that reducing guns reduces crime. Your side never bothers to do that for some reason. I'd think if you had some form of compelling evidence, you people would be spreading it far and wide.

We both know why you won't show evidence, because you have none. Facts are just not on your side, so your side resorts to emotionalism. And that's fine if you just want to "win", but it's not fine if you care about the truth, and having effective solutions implemented. So, if you people manage to divert the country from an effective solution, and instead impose your gun ban, I'll be right there holding you responsible for the next mass shooting, because there is ample evidence showing that a gun ban will do exactly nothing to change criminal behavior.
 
2013-01-14 12:40:35 PM

Wooly Bully: Giltric: you are just trolling, an idiot, or some paid shill for the Brady Campaign

This is amazing. I'm all of those things! You're too smart for me, I give up.


So VMP is your alt?

I mean why would you respond to a post directed at him?
 
2013-01-14 12:45:39 PM

Giltric: Wooly Bully: Giltric: you are just trolling, an idiot, or some paid shill for the Brady Campaign

This is amazing. I'm all of those things! You're too smart for me, I give up.

So VMP is your alt?

I mean why would you respond to a post directed at him?


You were responding to and bolded something I wrote, Mr. Not-a-troll-at-all.
 
2013-01-14 01:04:32 PM

vartian: Why don't all of you  George Zimmermans stay the fark out of my city? We have enough problems, thank you.


Whatever George Zimmerman is, the debate isn't about him robbing people. TFA, on the other hand, IS about robberies.

But hey, make them guns illegal, and I'm sure those robbers will find a legal method for breaking the law.
 
2013-01-14 01:28:12 PM

Wooly Bully: Giltric: Wooly Bully: Giltric: you are just trolling, an idiot, or some paid shill for the Brady Campaign

This is amazing. I'm all of those things! You're too smart for me, I give up.

So VMP is your alt?

I mean why would you respond to a post directed at him?

You were responding to and bolded something I wrote, Mr. Not-a-troll-at-all.


I'm actually a paid shill for the NRA. Some of you people really suck at messaging.
 
2013-01-14 04:41:54 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle:
While we're just arbitrarily making up "facts"

( from the Gallup poll, 67% of gun owners say they purchased a weapon to defend against crime) , allow me: the fact is everything you ever said or ever will say is wrong, therefore, I win.

Or was I supposed to keep reading after you decided to start your post out with something you just pulled out of your ass?


No, please continue to refute everyone else's data with facts you pull out of your own ass.
 
2013-01-14 10:40:56 PM

Giltric: Empty Matchbook: Giltric: Empty Matchbook: Peter von Nostrand: Hahahaha. Too funny subs. Everyone knows violence is due to video games and Hollywood. Saint LaPierre said so himself

Seeing as how he hasn't been drummed out of the NRA, I can only assume a majority of their members agree!
Video Games are violent, especially the first person shooters that advertise their games being as real as it gets without actually dying....and that also promote killing more and more people in order to unlock or gain access to higher powered in game weapons to kill more and more people with..they even employ behavioral specialist to design mechanics that keep people playing.....do you disagree?

Never heard that promotion (as real as it gets without dying). And...yeah, they keep people playing...not...killing, what's your point? Because "behavior specialists" have also concluded that video games do not make people any more violent in the long term. And since the same videogames Americans play are exported worldwide without the corresponding increase in violent behavior, oh HAI! It must be something else.

Besides that: your arguments are weirdly vague and also don't really prove any points, so...I guess I won't contradict them? Game makers want people to keep playing their games: Film at 11.

Other countries censor and outright ban video games due to high impact violence...Germany, the UK, Australia etc all do this...

LinkStudies have been done...and show increased activity in the emotional arousal sections of the brain and a decrease of activity in the self control sections of the brain while the gamer plays a violent video game.
A different study was done and shows the same thing happens when you show people violent movies. Now what does that mean to the average person...maybe nothing....but what about the broken humans like the Columbine killers and the Newtown shooter? I mean spree killing is an actual rare phenomenon in the scheme of things...maybe as rare as people acting ou ...


So what triggered all these people BEFORE videogames? And for that matter: Are you really going to make the argument that a game that looks like the first DOOM could "simulate murder"? You can't even look up or down. Or were there no spree killers BEFORE those? Are you really so interested in gutting the first Amendment to save the Second? Cause the 2nd Amendment's place in the constitution comes up a LOT in these debates, so I'm sorry, but videogames were recently upheld as protected under the first.

Also: UK does not, Germany only censors games developed in Germany, and Australia recently lifted that ban. I also notice you left Canada off your list there, I can't IMAGINE why-Oh wait...could it be that they have comparable numbers of violent games (and guns for that matter) but 1/100 of the violent homicides? You also never did direct me, or anyone, to that "The most realistic you can get without dying" ad campaign that apparently SWEPT the nation while I wasn't looking.
 
2013-01-15 07:33:56 AM

Empty Matchbook: So what triggered all these people BEFORE videogames? And for that matter: Are you really going to make the argument that a game that looks like the first DOOM could "simulate murder"? You can't even look up or down. Or were there no spree killers BEFORE those? Are you really so interested in gutting the first Amendment to save the Second? Cause the 2nd Amendment's place in the constitution comes up a LOT in these debates, so I'm sorry, but videogames were recently upheld as protected under the first.


Except you do realize that things like violent movies have ratings, and people under certain ages aren't allowed to purchase them, right? The video game ratings are self imposed and there is no law enforcement involved.
 
2013-01-15 10:39:42 AM

Empty Matchbook: Giltric: Empty Matchbook: Giltric: Empty Matchbook: Peter von Nostrand: Hahahaha. Too funny subs. Everyone knows violence is due to video games and Hollywood. Saint LaPierre said so himself

Seeing as how he hasn't been drummed out of the NRA, I can only assume a majority of their members agree!
Video Games are violent, especially the first person shooters that advertise their games being as real as it gets without actually dying....and that also promote killing more and more people in order to unlock or gain access to higher powered in game weapons to kill more and more people with..they even employ behavioral specialist to design mechanics that keep people playing.....do you disagree?

Never heard that promotion (as real as it gets without dying). And...yeah, they keep people playing...not...killing, what's your point? Because "behavior specialists" have also concluded that video games do not make people any more violent in the long term. And since the same videogames Americans play are exported worldwide without the corresponding increase in violent behavior, oh HAI! It must be something else.

Besides that: your arguments are weirdly vague and also don't really prove any points, so...I guess I won't contradict them? Game makers want people to keep playing their games: Film at 11.

Other countries censor and outright ban video games due to high impact violence...Germany, the UK, Australia etc all do this...

LinkStudies have been done...and show increased activity in the emotional arousal sections of the brain and a decrease of activity in the self control sections of the brain while the gamer plays a violent video game.
A different study was done and shows the same thing happens when you show people violent movies. Now what does that mean to the average person...maybe nothing....but what about the broken humans like the Columbine killers and the Newtown shooter? I mean spree killing is an actual rare phenomenon in the scheme of things...maybe as rare as people ...


Lanza swapped magazines that were half full in favor of fresh mags.....just like people who play call of duty and medal of honor type first person shooters.

Do you play FPS games? Have you ever done that in game?
 
2013-01-15 04:21:48 PM

Giltric: Lanza swapped magazines that were half full in favor of fresh mags.....just like people who play call of duty and medal of honor type first person shooters.

Do you play FPS games? Have you ever done that in game?


Are you for real?
 
2013-01-15 10:50:13 PM

Giltric: Empty Matchbook: Giltric: Empty Matchbook: Giltric: Empty Matchbook: Peter von Nostrand: Hahahaha. Too funny subs. Everyone knows violence is due to video games and Hollywood. Saint LaPierre said so himself

Seeing as how he hasn't been drummed out of the NRA, I can only assume a majority of their members agree!
Video Games are violent, especially the first person shooters that advertise their games being as real as it gets without actually dying....and that also promote killing more and more people in order to unlock or gain access to higher powered in game weapons to kill more and more people with..they even employ behavioral specialist to design mechanics that keep people playing.....do you disagree?

Never heard that promotion (as real as it gets without dying). And...yeah, they keep people playing...not...killing, what's your point? Because "behavior specialists" have also concluded that video games do not make people any more violent in the long term. And since the same videogames Americans play are exported worldwide without the corresponding increase in violent behavior, oh HAI! It must be something else.

Besides that: your arguments are weirdly vague and also don't really prove any points, so...I guess I won't contradict them? Game makers want people to keep playing their games: Film at 11.

Other countries censor and outright ban video games due to high impact violence...Germany, the UK, Australia etc all do this...

LinkStudies have been done...and show increased activity in the emotional arousal sections of the brain and a decrease of activity in the self control sections of the brain while the gamer plays a violent video game.
A different study was done and shows the same thing happens when you show people violent movies. Now what does that mean to the average person...maybe nothing....but what about the broken humans like the Columbine killers and the Newtown shooter? I mean spree killing is an actual rare phenomenon in the scheme of things...maybe a ...


You had me on the hook for so long, and then gave me up for THAT line. Still, well played, well riposted, and well trolled, sir.
 
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