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(Newser)   Scientists have found a structure so large that it undermines their understanding of the universe   (newser.com) divider line 102
    More: Interesting, universe, structures, quasars, supermassive black holes, astronomers, galaxies, Milky Way, light-years  
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11011 clicks; posted to Geek » on 11 Jan 2013 at 7:06 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-11 08:19:43 PM

OhioKnight: FTFA It's a collection of quasars that measures a difficult-to-imagine 4 billion light-years across, Space.com reports. To put that in perspective, the entire Milky Way is about 100,000 light-years wide.

Ummm, let me try.

To put that in perspective, the distance to the edge of the observable universe is about 12 billion light-years.


So this thing takes up 1/3 the diameter of the entire known universe and we only discovered it now?
 
2013-01-11 08:23:05 PM
More info in this link. There are 73 quasars in the cluster, and it's 9 billion light years away. Can you imagine the mass of these things, only 73 of them in 4 billion light years of space, and they're still noticeably tied together via gravity?
 
2013-01-11 08:25:45 PM
So here's a thought: Is this going to end up effecting theories on dark matter/dark energy? That's gotta be a hell of a lot of mass out there that we didn't know about before, and might there not be more of these out there for us to find?
 
2013-01-11 08:25:54 PM
I wonder if it isn't some intergalactic gravity well for something specific.
 
2013-01-11 08:27:08 PM

dualplains: The Mulatto Maker: [img.phombo.com image 800x554]

I recently saw someone refer to the Mars Science Laboratory as an 'atomic powered interplanetary science tank', and my first thought was, "JPL needs to step up their naming game."


Oh God. You have no idea. This blog subby links to left off the best part.

http://www.space.com/19227-biggest-structure-universe-explained-info gr aphic.html

"Left: Above the dashed line is the newly discovered "Huge Large Quasar Group" (HUGE-LQG). Below the dashed line is the previously known Clowes-Camposano Large Quasar Group (CC-LQG)"

...Any bets they find something even larger and have to name it Big Huge Large Quasar Group?
 
2013-01-11 08:32:11 PM

StopLurkListen: ...Any bets they find something even larger and have to name it Big Huge Large Quasar Group?


www.boiseweekly.com

"What about Bolt Vander-Huge?"

/MST3K Content Requirement for Thread #7531146: Fulfilled.
 
2013-01-11 08:42:34 PM

moviemarketing: OhioKnight: FTFA It's a collection of quasars that measures a difficult-to-imagine 4 billion light-years across, Space.com reports. To put that in perspective, the entire Milky Way is about 100,000 light-years wide.

Ummm, let me try.

To put that in perspective, the distance to the edge of the observable universe is about 12 billion light-years.

So this thing takes up 1/3 the diameter of the entire known universe and we only discovered it now?


We haven't been able to see the entirety of the observable universe yet. Most of it is too dim to see with your eyes even with a telescope - a lot of these mapping discoveries are being made with very long exposures on very sensitive instruments (x-ray, radio, as well as visible light). And they only see a tiny, tiny part of the sky at once. It's going to take a while. (And more funding for astronomy & other sciences couldn't hurt either!)

This is the picture from my link above. We've hardly even started looking yet. http://i.space.com/images/i/000/024/969/i02/biggest-structure-in-know n -universe-130110d-02.jpg?1357874526
 
2013-01-11 08:44:08 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: So how the fark did this go unnoticed for so long?


The were looking for intelligent life elsewhere first, Subbys brain.
 
2013-01-11 08:57:57 PM
Read the headline to my 9 year old. She said:

Is it bigger than Uranus?

/love that kid
 
2013-01-11 09:03:18 PM

moviemarketing: So this thing takes up 1/3 the diameter of the entire known universe and we only discovered it now?


"The newfound LQC is composed of 73 quasars and spans about 1.6 billion light-years in most directions, though it is 4 billion light-years across at its widest point. "

So we have 73 points, very bright points, but still practically points, distributed on an area of roughly 5 billion square light years and you wonder why it hasn't been seen before?
 
2013-01-11 09:18:12 PM
The dimension of which is in the precise ratio of 1 : 4 : 9.
 
2013-01-11 09:18:57 PM

StopLurkListen: dualplains: The Mulatto Maker: [img.phombo.com image 800x554]

I recently saw someone refer to the Mars Science Laboratory as an 'atomic powered interplanetary science tank', and my first thought was, "JPL needs to step up their naming game."

Oh God. You have no idea. This blog subby links to left off the best part.

http://www.space.com/19227-biggest-structure-universe-explained-info gr aphic.html

"Left: Above the dashed line is the newly discovered "Huge Large Quasar Group" (HUGE-LQG). Below the dashed line is the previously known Clowes-Camposano Large Quasar Group (CC-LQG)"

...Any bets they find something even larger and have to name it Big Huge Large Quasar Group?


I could go for the Big McLargehuge Quasar Group.
 
2013-01-11 09:28:04 PM

Rent Party: StopLurkListen: dualplains: The Mulatto Maker: [img.phombo.com image 800x554]

I recently saw someone refer to the Mars Science Laboratory as an 'atomic powered interplanetary science tank', and my first thought was, "JPL needs to step up their naming game."

Oh God. You have no idea. This blog subby links to left off the best part.

http://www.space.com/19227-biggest-structure-universe-explained-info gr aphic.html

"Left: Above the dashed line is the newly discovered "Huge Large Quasar Group" (HUGE-LQG). Below the dashed line is the previously known Clowes-Camposano Large Quasar Group (CC-LQG)"

...Any bets they find something even larger and have to name it Big Huge Large Quasar Group?

I could go for the Big McLargehuge Quasar Group.


I'd have gone with Professor J.P. McGilligudy's Fantasmagoric Quasar Quiver.

Humbly submitted for your approval.
 
2013-01-11 09:34:01 PM
Come on, guys, just wrap your brain around it.

/Come on, guys, just warp your brain around it.
 
2013-01-11 09:36:52 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: So how the fark did this go unnoticed for so long?


moviemarketing: So this thing takes up 1/3 the diameter of the entire known universe and we only discovered it now?


TFA doesn't describe well what is meant by "structure." This isn't a 4BLY long concrete wall. It's several dozen quasars massive enough to be gravitationally bound to each other despite great distances between them. The Virgo Cluster of galaxies, of which the Milky Way is one, is considered a "structure" as well. But look up in the northern hemisphere's night sky, and you're lucky if you can make out one other galaxy with the naked eye (Andromeda).
 
2013-01-11 10:03:08 PM
Didn't read the article. What the hell is NASA doing looking at my schlong? :P
 
2013-01-11 10:04:36 PM
imgs.xkcd.com
 
2013-01-11 10:27:43 PM
In Carl Sagan's Contact, he wrote about how the aliens had figured out that the Universe was expanding too fast and they were building massive structures to use their gravity to slow down the expansion.

This is probably part of that effort.
 
2013-01-11 10:29:57 PM

Captain Steroid: Didn't read the article. What the hell is NASA doing looking at my schlong? :P


You didn't read the thread either. Hate to break it to you, but you're late, and not as funny.
 
2013-01-11 10:57:18 PM

Niveras: You know an even larger structure than that quasar group? The universe. Gravity is ostensibly infinite, even if it attenuates to a degree that its effect cannot overcome inertia, which means that all objects are tied to some degree, that all are part of one 'structure.'


The Universe is bigger on the inside!


/What is that infernal drumming...
 
2013-01-11 11:11:26 PM

100 Watt Walrus: AdolfOliverPanties: So how the fark did this go unnoticed for so long?

moviemarketing: So this thing takes up 1/3 the diameter of the entire known universe and we only discovered it now?

TFA doesn't describe well what is meant by "structure." This isn't a 4BLY long concrete wall. It's several dozen quasars massive enough to be gravitationally bound to each other despite great distances between them. The Virgo Cluster of galaxies, of which the Milky Way is one, is considered a "structure" as well. But look up in the northern hemisphere's night sky, and you're lucky if you can make out one other galaxy with the naked eye (Andromeda).


Are they actually gravitationally bound to each other? That seems highly implausible to me. I always thought that things like this were just deviations from the mean in an organized way. Like a line of quasars across the universe that couldn't have formed by chance, but still doesn't necessarily have to interact in any way in the present, just (presumably) in the past.
 
2013-01-11 11:18:39 PM
I really am surprised it took this long to find it - and NO, they aren't going t find anything bigger.

We didn't see it because the visible light it emits is dim by the time it gets here, but the only thing bigger than it in the night sky is the Milky Way (and that is just the smear of billions of stars in our own galaxy.

If this thing was bright enough it would dominate the sky. It is over 25 degrees across when viewed from Earth.... the MOON is only half a degree across. So imagine 50 moons lined up edge to edge - HUGE!

It also takes up a decent percentage of the known universe.
 
2013-01-11 11:20:13 PM
spcMike: In Fred Pohl's "Gateway" energy-based beings didn't think this matter-dominated universe was hospitable to life as they knew it. They wanted to speed up the contraction of the universe to tweak the next Big Bang. I think that's more likely.
 
2013-01-11 11:36:47 PM

Lsherm: Huck Chaser: Known as a "large quasar group" (LQG)

That's really the best they could come up with?

Modern astronomers don't really come up with good names anymore.  I blame Messier, who identified objects in the sky and numbered them in the order he observed them.  Not very creative:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Messier_objects


The International Star Registry is working on it.

"You too can have a star named after you for the low low price of $35.00!"
 
2013-01-11 11:41:54 PM

Abner Doon: Are they actually gravitationally bound to each other? That seems highly implausible to me.


Just because you don't understand it (and Heaven knows I don't either) doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I always thought that things like this were just deviations from the mean in an organized way. Like a line of quasars across the universe that couldn't have formed by chance, but still doesn't necessarily have to interact in any way in the present, just (presumably) in the past.

According to the up-until-today accepted theories, "organized" things can't be this big. Science advanced a little today -- something broke a theoretical limit!
 
2013-01-11 11:52:24 PM

PonceAlyosha: I don't exactly understand how this is any less isomorphic than any other large scale structure. Sure, it's big, but isn't that just a matter of perspective? If the universe is truly infinite in spatial dimensions, shouldn't these sort of things be not exactly uncommon? Then again, before this wasn't the largest "structure" one of the voids between filament groups?


It can't be infinite in spacial dimensions. It started as a small point and a finite amount of time has passed. For it to be infinite in size it would have to have expanded with infinite speed.
 
2013-01-11 11:54:33 PM

spcMike: In Carl Sagan's Contact, he wrote about how the aliens had figured out that the Universe was expanding too fast and they were building massive structures to use their gravity to slow down the expansion.

This is probably part of that effort.


Hmmm.... So... where did they get the extra mass, that was not already there?
 
2013-01-12 12:27:23 AM
Just Another OC Homeless Guy: "Hmmm.... So... where did they get the extra mass, that was not already there?"

A really big 3D printer.
/Come on, you know I hadda.
 
2013-01-12 12:41:49 AM
A basic understanding of the Big Bang will tell you that the universe cannot be homogenous completely, otherwise no stellar fusion would've occurred, no supernovas, no heavy elements, and thus no planets or us. (and no LQGs for that matter). Astronomers need to get more astrophysics.
 
2013-01-12 12:59:43 AM

Lionel Mandrake: Huck Chaser: Known as a "large quasar group" (LQG)

That's really the best they could come up with?

I woulda named it "Sheila."

"Sheila" is a nice name.


It should be called the Eye of Terror...
 
2013-01-12 01:04:08 AM

Quantum Apostrophe: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: "Hmmm.... So... where did they get the extra mass, that was not already there?"

A really big 3D printer.
/Come on, you know I hadda.


I laffed
 
2013-01-12 01:15:00 AM
So cosmo(logy) says you're fat, well I ain't down with that.
 
2013-01-12 01:45:08 AM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: spcMike: In Carl Sagan's Contact, he wrote about how the aliens had figured out that the Universe was expanding too fast and they were building massive structures to use their gravity to slow down the expansion.

This is probably part of that effort.

Hmmm.... So... where did they get the extra mass, that was not already there?


From Jesus.
Why do you think the Catholics call it Mass?
 
2013-01-12 03:30:38 AM

Quantum Apostrophe: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: "Hmmm.... So... where did they get the extra mass, that was not already there?"

A really big 3D printer.
/Come on, you know I hadda.


OK, that was funny.
 
2013-01-12 03:31:20 AM

madgonad: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: spcMike: In Carl Sagan's Contact, he wrote about how the aliens had figured out that the Universe was expanding too fast and they were building massive structures to use their gravity to slow down the expansion.

This is probably part of that effort.

Hmmm.... So... where did they get the extra mass, that was not already there?

From Jesus.
Why do you think the Catholics call it Mass?


OK, that was really funny.
 
2013-01-12 04:37:25 AM

Quantum Apostrophe: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: "Hmmm.... So... where did they get the extra mass, that was not already there?"

A really big 3D printer.
/Come on, you know I hadda.


Have to admit, I LOLed.
 
2013-01-12 04:41:53 AM

Huck Chaser: Known as a "large quasar group" (LQG)
That's really the best they could come up with?


Do you have any idea how many things there are in space? ...like... a zillion gajillion million billion.

If astronomers had to come up with a creative name for everything they found in space, they'd run out of LANGUAGES to name them all by now.

So give them some slack. They're probably burnt out from all the labelling and aren't interested anymore.
 
2013-01-12 04:54:46 AM

moviemarketing: So this thing takes up 1/3 the diameter of the entire known universe and we only discovered it now?


The Universe is 13BLY old. It is not 13BLY in diameter. It's probably closer to 90.
 
2013-01-12 05:01:23 AM

Ishkur: moviemarketing: So this thing takes up 1/3 the diameter of the entire known universe and we only discovered it now?

The Universe is 13BLY old. It is not 13BLY in diameter. It's probably closer to 90.


blood, farking stupid inflation pisses the crap out of me. things were so simple before then.
13by old = 13bly radius

but nooooooooooooooo stupid inflation
so now we
13by old and 46bly radis
 
2013-01-12 06:28:00 AM
Just study it out.
 
2013-01-12 10:56:09 AM

poonesfarm: AdolfOliverPanties: So how the fark did this go unnoticed for so long?

Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mindbogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space, listen...


Came here for this. Leaving satisfied.
 
2013-01-12 10:57:26 AM
Thank you, Ishkur.

That's right folks, due to expansion of the universe, the observable edge from here is 46-47 Billion Light Years away. That makes this thing (gravitationally attracted to each other group of things) still only 4.3% the length of the observable universe.

We're still awaiting results from the Planck satellite to give us more detailed info on Dark Flow. I'm more curious as to what kinda mass the thing that is causing that to be. Saying "Large Quasar Group" gives you some wiggle room to name stuff that you'll find later.
 
2013-01-12 12:23:21 PM
"...but this new discovery is literally impossibly large."

hmm an impossibly large actual large thing? Unpossilble!!
 
2013-01-12 12:49:50 PM
Subby, is it uranus?
 
2013-01-12 02:02:43 PM
Correction: 6000 lights years across.
 
2013-01-12 03:11:38 PM

viscountalpha: I wonder if it isn't some intergalactic gravity well for something specific.


It's probably Gods house.
 
2013-01-12 03:38:14 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: So how the fark did this go unnoticed for so long?


It's so big, we didn't realize that it was there?
 
2013-01-12 03:49:37 PM

Whodat: "...but this new discovery is literally impossibly large."

hmm an impossibly large actual large thing? Unpossilble!!


It's impossible given what we think, anyway.

/oh, look, a new opportunity to fine-tune our knowledge
 
2013-01-12 04:47:52 PM

InternetSecurityGuard: The dimension of which is in the precise ratio of 1 : 4 : 9.


Now there's a thought.
 
2013-01-12 05:47:46 PM

Huck Chaser: Known as a "large quasar group" (LQG)

That's really the best they could come up with?


How about FLQG ?
 
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