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(Talking Points Memo)   It looks like nobody is buying the 'gun control' they're selling, so they're re-branding it as 'gun safety'   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 266
    More: Asinine, Brady Campaign, gun safety, Biden  
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2206 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Jan 2013 at 3:05 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-11 03:12:55 PM  

syrynxx: hubiestubert:
We need to have a discussion in this country about crime. Causes. Prevention. Why folks turn to violent crime. How we can reduce the factors and conditions that make it an option.

That means having a meaningful discussion on education, mental health, and economic opportunity as well as drug policy.

That's like having a meaningful discussion on Crips vs. Bloods.  Are we really going to try to rearchitect black society so that males marry the mothers of their children and have them grow up with honest, job-holding role models so the youths don't succumb to peer pressure to join a gang?  That's dumber than suggesting 10-round magazines are going to change anything.


If drugs and prostitution are legalized, taking the power away from the undercurrents of society so desperate to improve their lot that the 'easy' route of illegal activity is the primary driver of action, the currently gang-ridden societies will change themselves.
 
2013-01-11 03:13:47 PM  
I think calling it 'gun safety' is a great idea.

We need to drug test everyone who buys a gun or ammunition. We don't want drug dealers and druggies from getting guns do we?
 
2013-01-11 03:14:05 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: I don't care what they brand it as, as long as they get something meaningful done.


They won't because they can't.

Any attempt at banning certain models of firearms will only create a robust black market for them. Whatever weapon they try to restrict will be bought em mass before any restriction becomes law, and those weapons will circulate in a robust black market.

Any attempt at mental health reform is going to stall the second someone is involuntarily treated and retaliates with a lawsuit.

Sick people will continue to target innocent victims, people will still have their guns, and crazies will still be crazy.


America won't stop being a crazy and violent country as long as a place that thinks it's more socially acceptable to show horrific killing on prime-time t.v. than it is to show a woman's sweet milk mounds.
 
2013-01-11 03:15:13 PM  
Well, it worked for "Death Tax".
 
2013-01-11 03:15:48 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: vernonFL: Hi! I was shot by a psycho in my classroom.

It would be nice if someone did something about crazy people with guns going on
killing sprees. I really don't care whether you call it "gun control" or "gun safety".

Thank you.

/I purposely did not use a photo of one of the actual victims. This is a stock photo.

Key word: psycho

Let's do something about all those psychos and leave all the law abiding sane people alone!

Lets count the laws/rules that were broken:
1) theft - he stole the guns
2) carrying a gun into a gun free zone
3) murder (30 counts)

So what new law or rule would have stopped him?!


You're not allowed to keep arguing after someone hijacks the souls of dead children to further a political argument.
 
2013-01-11 03:16:56 PM  
But what will happen to the manufacturer of those clever "'gun control' means using both hands" bumper stickers? Another job lost in 0bummer's America.
 
2013-01-11 03:17:02 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: EatenTheSun: Grand_Moff_Joseph: I don't care what they brand it as, as long as they get something meaningful done.

What do you consider meaningful? Because an assault rifle ban isn't gonna do much to change the homicide rate.

I think it would. It will lower the number of casualties at these farking mass shootings, anyway.


It's unclear whether it would or would not. An assault weapon ban has never been tried. A handgun ban has been tried and does reduce the homicide rate.
 
2013-01-11 03:17:09 PM  
Remember Gunfappers, your position grows weaker with every massacre and you've ensured there are plenty of guns around for them to continue.

Enjoy.
 
2013-01-11 03:17:44 PM  

Muta: We need to drug test everyone who buys a gun or ammunition. We don't want drug dealers and druggies from getting guns do we?


Actually, that is one major reason why I *don't* own a gun. Who knows if I may or may not have illegal drugs in my home, and in my state, if I were to be caught with illegal drugs AND a gun (even if the gun was legal) I would go to jail for twice as long as if I just had the illegal drugs only. Hypothetical situation.
 
2013-01-11 03:18:15 PM  
I think it would. It will lower the number of casualties at these farking mass shootings, anyway.

Out of America's 10 worst mass shootings, only 1 involved an assault rifle (Newton). Furthermore, the Newton shooter was in the building for 10 minutes and fired less than 100 rounds; the same damage could easily have been inflicted with the handguns or shotgun he carried, neither of which are being addressed by any of the proposed bans. The worst mass shooting in US history was committed with two handguns.

So no, an assault rifle ban won't have any meaningful impact on the number of people killed, either in mass shootings or in more traditional gun murders.

Nobody who is pro-gun control has ever addressed these facts (all of which are readily available with a bit of Google), and articulated a reason why Democratic politicians always seem to race to assault rifle bans as their first answer to solving gun crime. It is the least effective proposal with the most pushback from the gun community that could possibly be implemented.
 
2013-01-11 03:18:24 PM  

another cultural observer: The Stealth Hippopotamus: vernonFL: Hi! I was shot by a psycho in my classroom.

It would be nice if someone did something about crazy people with guns going on
killing sprees. I really don't care whether you call it "gun control" or "gun safety".

Thank you.

/I purposely did not use a photo of one of the actual victims. This is a stock photo.

Key word: psycho

Let's do something about all those psychos and leave all the law abiding sane people alone!

Lets count the laws/rules that were broken:
1) theft - he stole the guns
2) carrying a gun into a gun free zone
3) murder (30 counts)

So what new law or rule would have stopped him?!

You're not allowed to keep arguing after someone hijacks the souls of dead children to further a political argument.


Now I'm hungry.
 
2013-01-11 03:18:25 PM  
This is just sad, all of it.
 
2013-01-11 03:18:32 PM  

Pincy: Well, it worked for "Death Tax".


And "Job Creators."
 
2013-01-11 03:18:50 PM  

Pincy: Well, it worked for "Death Tax".


"Job creator"
 
2013-01-11 03:18:50 PM  

Muta: We don't want drug dealers and druggies from getting guns do we?


The NRA freak on my Facebook page would agree with that statement. He's said so a few times. Incidentally, I'm don't think I've ever seen him not stoned.

I'd point out the hypocrisy, but I'd rather just unfriend him.
 
2013-01-11 03:19:03 PM  
Firearms enthusiasts, as a group, seem like the most pedantic people on the planet.
 
2013-01-11 03:20:42 PM  

justtray: We can and we should. Bans aren't going to help nearly as much as this type of control, and economic disincentives to owning them (tax, insurance, etc).


I don't agree with banning weapons anymore than I agree with banning marijuana. People are gonna get their hands on stuff they want one way or another.
 
2013-01-11 03:21:08 PM  

dr-shotgun: I think it would. It will lower the number of casualties at these farking mass shootings, anyway.

Out of America's 10 worst mass shootings, only 1 involved an assault rifle (Newton). Furthermore, the Newton shooter was in the building for 10 minutes and fired less than 100 rounds; the same damage could easily have been inflicted with the handguns or shotgun he carried, neither of which are being addressed by any of the proposed bans. The worst mass shooting in US history was committed with two handguns.

So no, an assault rifle ban won't have any meaningful impact on the number of people killed, either in mass shootings or in more traditional gun murders.

Nobody who is pro-gun control has ever addressed these facts (all of which are readily available with a bit of Google), and articulated a reason why Democratic politicians always seem to race to assault rifle bans as their first answer to solving gun crime. It is the least effective proposal with the most pushback from the gun community that could possibly be implemented.


assets.motherjones.com
 
2013-01-11 03:21:39 PM  
Want to cut back on gun violence? Increase access to birth control and abortions. Because unwanted, poorly raised children are more likely to grow up to be criminals.
 
2013-01-11 03:21:48 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Grand_Moff_Joseph: I don't care what they brand it as, as long as they get something meaningful done.

When one party equates the 2nd Amendment as religion and any attempt to change that as throwing them to the lions, don't expect anything meaningful to get done.


And when that party has distaste bordering on psychosis for the other party and it's leader, expect even less to be done. They would rather make the situation worse than give fartbongo a victory.
 
2013-01-11 03:21:48 PM  
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so". - Thomas Jefferson
 
2013-01-11 03:22:23 PM  

Muta: I think calling it 'gun safety' is a great idea.

We need to drug test everyone who buys a gun or ammunition. We don't want drug dealers and druggies from getting guns do we?


I assume we'd be testing for all legally prescribed drugs in that scenario as well?
 
2013-01-11 03:22:57 PM  
All future gun purchases can only be made by registered members of official state or national militias, who are required to get cleared for duty every two years.

All weapons seized in the process of police work are to be destroyed if conviction of violent crime is the result of the case.

Magazine sizes are maxed at 6.

Silencers, body armor, and ammunition require the same level of clearance to purchase as a gun itself.

Easy solutions, and completely constitutional. Don't even have to go "gun-grabbing" as the wingnuts fear.
 
2013-01-11 03:23:00 PM  

make me some tea: Actually, that is a more accurate description of what we're looking for. "Gun control" is a rather hyperbolic.


Not for me. I'd sign on for "gun banning", "gun abolitionism", "gun outlawing", whatever. Do it Obama. You totally farked us over on the "fiscal cliff" opportunity, but maybe you can salvage yourself here.

Also, can we stop calling people who own guns but aren't in the military or law enforcement, and don't hunt, "gun owners"? It is a half ass PC euphamism for the these crazy farks. The appropriate term is "gun nut".
 
2013-01-11 03:23:08 PM  

Fail in Human Form: "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so". - Thomas Jefferson


"Which one of my slaves am I gonna bang today?" - Thomas Jefferson
 
2013-01-11 03:23:31 PM  
Wecome to modern politics. Sort of a combination of 1984 and idiocracy.

Like the "affordable" care act. You know, the one currently projected to cost $2.6 trillion, plus make everybody buy insurance, plus charge us each a $63 a month surcharge. You know, affordable!

Carry on, citizen.
 
2013-01-11 03:23:33 PM  
Why not "pro-life"?

I'm going to stick with "gun regulation" as it suggests being in line with the Constitution and "gun safety" already has a meaning.
 
2013-01-11 03:23:51 PM  
Unless you're a collector of historically significant firearms (in which case owning is an end in itself), a gun is just a tool. A means to an end.

A tool to accomplish evil, or a tool to accomplish something neutral (or a tool to accomplish something good, if you're target practicing).

That's all I've got for now.
 
2013-01-11 03:24:04 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Firearms enthusiasts, as a group, seem like the most pedantic people on the planet.


t3.gstatic.com

They would rather kill their own mother than not have a gun.
 
2013-01-11 03:24:08 PM  
Kazan:  i lean slightly in favor of better regulation of the militia (*twists the constitutional knife*)

'Regulation' was not a synonym for 'restriction'.  A 'well-restricted militia' makes no sense in a Bill of Rights. Regardless, the RKBA has been upheld by the Supreme Court as an individual right not dependent on membership in a formal militia.  Try reading the ruling; you'll save a lot of blather.

 - but will call out dumb things on my own side (criminals will ignore laws. so make it harder for them to have guns in the first place - close the gun show loopholes that still exist).
This is what is dumb - trying to exploit a recent tragedy by creating laws completely irrelevant to what happened.  Did the Newtown gun guy purchase his weapons at a gun show?  No.  Did anyone else recently in the news?  No.  Do gangbangers?  No.  So shut your yap with your tired, rehashed talking points.  FFLs at gun shows do background checks just like in a store.


 However the right is always, completely, totally and utterly pants-on-head retarded when any discussion of guns comes up.
Gun ownership isn't a left-vs-right issue. Plenty of Democrats own firearms.  Proposing rules in the wake of a tragedy that would've had no tangible impact on what happened is completely, totally, and utterly pants-on-head retarded.
 
2013-01-11 03:24:51 PM  
We should ban all semi-automatic weapons. Or tax the living shait out of them so very few people own one.
 
2013-01-11 03:25:14 PM  

another cultural observer: You're not allowed to keep arguing after someone hijacks the souls of dead children to further a political argument.


Dr. Venture: [defensive] Might be, kind of - I mean I didn't use the whole thing!
 
2013-01-11 03:25:33 PM  

Lsherm: I think that kid's sandwich just gave me an erection.


THIS. I will share your sandwich-erection.

/Wait, did that sound as bad as it sounds?
 
2013-01-11 03:25:49 PM  

LarryDan43: Want to cut back on gun violence? Increase access to birth control and abortions. Because unwanted, poorly raised children are more likely to grow up to be criminals.


Criminals as in gang thugs or bank robbers?  Perhaps.  But so many of these spree shooters come from fairly well off suburban families.  Shooting 20 children dead at a school and shooting someone in an alley because he stole your crack show two VERY different demographics.
 
2013-01-11 03:25:50 PM  

EyeballKid: Fail in Human Form: "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so". - Thomas Jefferson

"Which one of my slaves am I gonna bang today?" - Thomas Jefferson


TJ was the Joe Biden of colonial America. I bet he used spend his saturdays washing his carriage, shirtless, in front of the mansion.
 
2013-01-11 03:25:55 PM  
What these morons want isn't going to (and wouldn't have) change/d much.

1. They want to limit the guns that are used in less than 3% of murders.
2. They want to limit magazine capacity which wasn't a factor. Also, you can change the magazine in 2 seconds. Whoop-dee-doo.
3. They want to outlaw the private sales of guns (gun show "loophole").

This won't do anything to stop 99% of gun violence and it wouldn't have stopped the massacres.

Good jerb libs.

Obama Administration: "Never let a good crisis go to waste."
 
2013-01-11 03:26:00 PM  

Jackson Herring: syrynxx: If someone in the audience were carrying concealed, they might have shot her.

wouldn't THAT get your little dick hard


Have you had the 'talk' with your parents about your obsession with other mens' penises?
 
2013-01-11 03:26:00 PM  

Captain_Ballbeard: Remember Gunfappers, your position grows weaker with every massacre and you've ensured there are plenty of guns around for them to continue.

Enjoy.


Ooh, wait, "gunfappers" is more accurate. Let's go with that.
 
2013-01-11 03:26:27 PM  

Fail in Human Form: "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so". - Thomas Jefferson


"Sometimes people on the internet make shiat up and then pretend someone famous said it." - George Jefferson
 
2013-01-11 03:26:45 PM  
Why can't this type of responsibility be applied to firearms?

Well, to the gun lunatics, this is the first step in allowing the "Gummint" to take their guns away. Never mind that the US Supreme Court has already ruled that a citizen has a fundamental right to keep and bear arms. ANY attempt at regulation or registration is seen as infringing on 2nd ammendnent rights.

I find it funny that the NRA supports registering the mentally ill, but not gun owners ...
 
2013-01-11 03:26:59 PM  

dr-shotgun: Out of America's 10 worst mass shootings, only 1 involved an assault rifle (Newton).


Still, it's a popular item.

img2.timeinc.nettimenewsfeed.files.wordpress.comstatic.guim.co.ukwww.gannett-cdn.com

/and of course you meant "assault weapon"
 
2013-01-11 03:27:30 PM  
Poor babies. Isn't the "anti-gun" moniker catching on as fast as they wanted? Maybe because most people aren't actually "anti-gun," ya think?

But if that "anti-gun" makes gun owners even more paranoid and angry, that's what counts, right? That's exactly the kind of people we want stockpiling ammo.
 
2013-01-11 03:27:50 PM  

Emrick: We should ban all semi-automatic weapons. Or tax the living shait out of them so very few people own one.


One bullet per trigger pull is scary to you?
 
2013-01-11 03:27:53 PM  

Emrick: We should ban all semi-automatic weapons. Or tax the living shait out of them so very few people own one.


Or you could move to Europe, which is better suited to people who like totalitarian government control over people's individual lives.
 
2013-01-11 03:28:21 PM  

cchris_39: Wecome to modern politics. Sort of a combination of 1984 and idiocracy.

Like the "affordable" care act. You know, the one currently projected to cost $2.6 trillion, plus make everybody buy insurance, plus charge us each a $63 a month surcharge. You know, affordable!

Carry on, citizen.


God forbid we actually pay for healthcare for millions of people. Did you think that would be free?

If you don't like the ACA then tell us something that will accomplish the same thing but cost nothing? Or do you not give a shait if your fellow countrymen die for no reason?
 
2013-01-11 03:28:56 PM  

1derful: Emrick: We should ban all semi-automatic weapons. Or tax the living shait out of them so very few people own one.

Or you could move to Europe, which is better suited to people who like totalitarian government control over people's individual lives.


Yeah Europe totally blows
 
2013-01-11 03:29:35 PM  
Hey, gun nuts - you're gonna get Luntzed!
 
2013-01-11 03:29:41 PM  

CPennypacker: Posts Chart Showing Assault Rifles Used in Mass Shootings


You are missing the point.

The contention is that assault rifles are somehow exponentially MORE lethal than other guns when used in mass shootings. Yet, of the 10 most lethal mass shootings, only one involved the use of an assault rifle. And when we pick apart that shooting, it is obvious that the use of an AR likely has little/no effect on the overall lethality of the event.

So if they really are these "Weapons of mass murder" designed expressly to "Kill everybody in a room" as "quickly as possible," than why is it that mass shootings with assault rifles are not the entirety of the most lethal mass shooting list?

Also, the Mother Jones data on weapons is quite poor, as they categorize every long gun that isn't a shotgun as an assault rifle.
 
2013-01-11 03:30:36 PM  
If they are changing the name in order to get more people behind the idea why not call it "free shiat for everyone"?
 
2013-01-11 03:30:59 PM  
Call it whatever you want the bag of assholes that are going to resist any inkling of any sort of further restrictions on guns are the same bag of assholes they were yesterday.
 
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