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(ABC)   Walmart spokesman: The e-mails released that show CEO was told about the bribes before they happened "leaves the wrong impression that our public statements {that we didn't know about the bribes} are contradicted" Baghdad Bob? Is that you?   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 89
    More: Unlikely, Baghdad Bob, Wal-Mart, CEO, foreign official, bribes, Brooke Buchanan, Henry A. Waxman, documents  
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6513 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jan 2013 at 3:22 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-11 04:33:25 PM

pantojar: Strange that most of these comments seem to view bribery as an acceptable business practice.


I think it's acceptable per se. However, if you bribe somebody to do something, it's the same as if you committed the act yourself. Bribing somebody to commit a crime is a crime, and bribing for special consideration should get you into trouble.

Bribing somebody to do their job? Unfortunate, but should be acceptable.

/morally, not legally.
 
2013-01-11 04:35:11 PM

Captain_Ballbeard: Then the answer is to not do business with those countries who will not play by the rules. Sorry if that gets in the way of the Corpfapper Globalism dreams, but it is what it is.


So we should just stay behind our wall because the rest of the world doesn't share our high moral attitude ?! What's next not doing business with a country that puts porn on tv during the "family hour"? A little pay off here and a little pay off there is how the world runs. That's how we operate too, it's just that other countries are more honest about it.

Captain_Ballbeard: It's what you sold this country out for, after all


huh?
 
2013-01-11 04:36:02 PM

GORDON: Moroning: If there is one thing I learned from Prince Keldar-- bribes rule the world of business.

Don't wriggle your fingers at me.


hahahaha.....

/I used to read those books at least once a year.
/never could get into his other worlds though, not as fun.
 
2013-01-11 04:39:16 PM

occamswrist: I get shiat tons of emails and when I get backed up sometimes I'll skim them without reading every farking line.

I'd have to see the emails, who was on them, who was Cced, who replied to the email chain, etc before u could even make an educated guess in whether the ceo saw it.

But don't let that stop any of you guys...


Agreed.  For the amount of money a CEO makes, they couldn't possibly be bothered with responsibility for their job.
 
2013-01-11 04:45:42 PM
They should have gone through the proper channels. You know, bribing politicians indirectly by funding attack ads through a 501(c)(4).

Remember kids: if you give money to a low-level government worker who is trying to feed his family, you go to jail. If you give millions of dollars in de-facto campaign contributions to a famous millionaire senator, you are rewarded with lucrative government contracts.
 
2013-01-11 04:46:14 PM
Uh, wait...isn't that Mexico's "culture"? Quit hating on people's cultures, you racists!
 
2013-01-11 04:50:24 PM

pantojar: Strange that most of these comments seem to view bribery as an acceptable business practice.


In a lot of cultures (Mexico obviously being one) it isn't even considered a bribe, it's just the way things are done.

Shocking I know that different countries have different norms
 
2013-01-11 04:51:05 PM

Captain_Ballbeard: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Warlordtrooper: So your argument is that bribery is acceptable?

Acceptable? Not really but they are necessary if you want to compete on the international level.

Then the answer is to not do business with those countries who will not play by the rules. Sorry if that gets in the way of the Corpfapper Globalism dreams, but it is what it is. It's what you sold this country out for, after all.


You know how I can tell you've never been anywhere?
 
2013-01-11 04:54:26 PM

GrizzlyPouch: pantojar: Strange that most of these comments seem to view bribery as an acceptable business practice.

In a lot of cultures (Mexico obviously being one) it isn't even considered a bribe, it's just the way things are done.

Shocking I know that different countries have different norms


True in the US the norm is that CEOs gaet massive pay packages and bear no responsibility for their actions.
 
2013-01-11 04:55:26 PM
I still don't think it's acceptable, but I know a few people who run businesses in Mexico, and every single one of them have talked about how you have to do bribes if you want to do business there. I guess YMMV.
 
2013-01-11 05:01:02 PM

oh_please: Uh, wait...isn't that Mexico's "culture"? Quit hating on people's cultures, you racists!


Say what you will about the culture of corruption, at least it's a culture.
 
2013-01-11 05:01:37 PM

The First Four Katy Perry Albums: oh_please: Uh, wait...isn't that Mexico's "culture"? Quit hating on people's cultures, you racists!

Say what you will about the culture of corruption, at least it's a culture.


It is what it is.
 
2013-01-11 05:03:48 PM

OptionC: The_Gallant_Gallstone: OptionC: I would say that in some countries, yes, because that is how business is done. I wouldn't suggest we import the system, since it is a pretty awful way to run a country, but there is no reason to put US companies at a severe disadvantage to their Asian and European competitors who have no such qualms when bidding on contracts in countries where casual corruption is a way of life.

Agreed.

In some countries, wholesale murder and pillaging are acceptable. If you don't set yourself up as a demigod and extract ivory from the natives, then you put yourself at a severe disadvantage.

/ exterminate all the brutes

Yes, because buying a car for a mid-level bureaucrat in Derpaderpastan in order to facilitate a multi-million dollar deal that could provide jobs to ordinary Americans is exactly the same as wholesale murder, pillaging and oppression.


If the regime in Derpaderpastan is on the embargo list for murder, pillage, and oppression, it IS exactly the farking same.

Ethics only count if there's something at stake.
 
2013-01-11 05:04:22 PM

lewismarktwo: [nsm08.casimages.com image 478x260]
http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2012/12/16//12121604573915733010671259 . jpg


bravo
 
2013-01-11 05:06:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2tct_lRvss

She is stunningly full of crap. Amazing. She is a complete drone - do NOT have sex with her, unless you want to have...you know, dirty robot sex...
 
2013-01-11 05:08:59 PM
Soon:

abovethelaw.com
 
2013-01-11 05:18:20 PM

j__z: toomuchmarisa

The only real issue here is that Mexico hasn't developed yet to the point where bribery is legal...

It's not legal down there? Tijuana cops seems to think it is.


Legal? Maybe not but it's the way things are done in some places.
 
2013-01-11 05:28:57 PM
I have had to deal with Chinese government officials on several occasions. You will get nothing done in China without a "Gift" for each official you dealt with.

I always packed one suitcase with nothing but gifts each trip. And the higher the official was up the food chain, the better the gift had to be. High end liquor was well looked upon.
 
2013-01-11 05:36:52 PM
Old and busted: Bribes to keep Wal-Mart from opening stores in Chicago.
New hotness: Bribes to help Wal-Mart open stores in Mexico.
 
2013-01-11 05:39:29 PM
You libs are fools. If every American doesn't have the right -- the inalienable right -- to corrupt the highest levels of any government on Earth, Osama bin Laden is celebrating in his grave.

What is freedom if not the right to personally own more than the GDP of California? Without the right to turn swathes of Latin America into your personal fiefdom, do you think these titans of industry would have any motivation to grow their company? Of course not! They'd simply go back to hand-crafting widgets or digging sewers for the love of the job! Why worry about the constant stress of being the sole person in charge -- the business calls, the business lunches, the business rounds of golf in Tuscany -- when you can be one of the lucky duckies on payroll? Think about it: free healthcare, free cell phones, refrigerators in every home. All made possible by the poor bastard slaving away in his 49th story office. And all you had to do in return was stay silent when 0bama made spanking illegal and claimed the right of primae noctis with Ann Romney. It didn't even fit the definition of the term! This is what you let happen, America!

/it's all fine until he comes for your wife, right?
//I'd say God help us all, but 0bama banned that too
 
2013-01-11 05:45:29 PM
Meh. It's only the way business has been done all over the world since forever.

Link
 
2013-01-11 06:08:40 PM

BitTwist: I have had to deal with Chinese government officials on several occasions. You will get nothing done in China without a "Gift" for each official you dealt with.

I always packed one suitcase with nothing but gifts each trip. And the higher the official was up the food chain, the better the gift had to be. High end liquor was well looked upon.


THIS. It's basic protocol in China, and is taught as a matter-of-course in any real business school.
 
2013-01-11 06:52:23 PM
Aha!
 
2013-01-11 07:59:09 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: basemetal: Meh, I figure that many businesses have to grease the wheels both here and abroad to get things moving.

Would it be better if we called it fees? It's Mexico if you dont show up with a pocket full of 20s to hand out you won't even get of the airport grounds!


^^^^^^^^^^
THIS

If you ever go into Mexico bring cash it will get you out of many situations.

CSB Surf trip to Baja got pulled over just outside of TJ and the cop kept hassling me and I wasn't interested in paying money 1 hour into the trip. He looked at me and said we will impound car and find drugs (we hadn't procured any yet) so i said but you won't find any we don't have any. He pulled down his shades and peered over them and said "we...will...find...drugs" needless to say I handed him a $20 and was on my way.
 
2013-01-11 08:04:02 PM
Wal-Mart Stores Inc.'s CEO Mike Duke found out in 2005 that the retailer's Mexico unit was handing out bribes to local officials, according to emails obtained by lawmakers.

The lawmakers say the emails contradict earlier claims by Wal-Mart that executives weren't aware of bribes being made by the company.


Gee, corporate golden umbrella empty suits lying to protect their bread and butter. Who would have thunk it?
 
2013-01-11 08:05:07 PM
I'm sure that somebody at WalMart didn't know about the bribes--possibly the illegal alien workers locked into the store at night to clean the floors.

Maybe the people involved in the bribes and the people in charge of everything knew about the bribes. We just need to find the right somebody who didn't and borrow his or her deniability* for a while.

*As the Reagan Administration and its military and spy agencies used to say.
 
2013-01-11 08:14:55 PM

MindStalker: Its been a while sense I studied FCPA, but I believe basic greasing the wheel is acceptable. If there is a standard guy your supposed to pay when you submit form A, everyone pays him. Its no big deal. On the other hand if it gives you a competitive advantage, IE most people pay a token amount, but if you slip him a few grand you get to the front of the line, then that crosses the line and is unacceptable. Either way it all must be on the books and recorded. Its the difference between tipping your waiter and paying him to poison the other guys food.
But then again, I'm not positive I'm right. Anyone else care to chime in?


If by "right", you mean the right way to end up with a huge fine, no job, and possible jail time, then sure. It doesn't even matter if the person handing out the money has ever even been in the US as long as they are doing it on behalf of your company. And it also doesn't matter if it's legal or not in the country where the bribing takes place.
 
2013-01-11 08:25:35 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: MindStalker: Its been a while sense I studied FCPA, but I believe basic greasing the wheel is acceptable. If there is a standard guy your supposed to pay when you submit form A, everyone pays him. Its no big deal. On the other hand if it gives you a competitive advantage, IE most people pay a token amount, but if you slip him a few grand you get to the front of the line, then that crosses the line and is unacceptable. Either way it all must be on the books and recorded. Its the difference between tipping your waiter and paying him to poison the other guys food.
But then again, I'm not positive I'm right. Anyone else care to chime in?

If by "right", you mean the right way to end up with a huge fine, no job, and possible jail time, then sure. It doesn't even matter if the person handing out the money has ever even been in the US as long as they are doing it on behalf of your company. And it also doesn't matter if it's legal or not in the country where the bribing takes place.

From http://tfoxlaw.wordpress.com/tag/facilitation-payments/

The FCPA states that it "shall not apply to any facilitating or expediting payment to a foreign official, political party, or party official the purpose of which is to expedite or to secure the performance of a routine governmental action . . ." Further, the FCPA has a list of examples of facilitation payments in the definition of routine governmental actions, which include the following:

Obtaining permits, licenses, or other official documents;
Processing governmental papers such as visas and work orders;
Providing police protection, mail services, scheduling inspections;
Providing utilities, cargo handling; or
Actions of a similar nature.

The key has always been whether the function in question was a "routine governmental action" because a facilitation payment is clearly a bribe. From the Court's discussion, it is clear that it is thinking that if the end goal of a facilitation payment is to obtain something that the person or entity making the facilitation knows that they are not entitled to, then it cannot be a facilitation payment because it is not a "routine governmental action".


Either way, I'm glad this isn't my job.
 
2013-01-11 09:00:33 PM
To undermine America for profit?
 
2013-01-11 09:01:23 PM
Grow America.

Now.

And that's that.
 
2013-01-11 09:03:15 PM
Produce home.
 
2013-01-11 09:23:27 PM

Indubitably: Aha!


I was about to give up on this thread as an average, boring Fark capitalism fight.

But now you're here. Time to make popcorn.
 
2013-01-11 09:41:52 PM

Lachwen: Indubitably: Aha!

I was about to give up on this thread as an average, boring Fark capitalism fight.

But now you're here. Time to make popcorn.


You're welcome.
 
2013-01-11 09:49:45 PM
This is impossible, because they paid everyone a lot of money not to talk to the media. And then they paid people in the media a lot of money to not report it. At this rate, they'll have to pay everyone who read the story to forget what they just read.

Bribery is hard.
 
2013-01-11 10:58:22 PM
cdn5.movieclips.com
Maybe kickbacks and mafia payouts are how you do business. But they are not part of the legitimate business world and will certainly not be taught in this Fark thread.
 
2013-01-11 11:06:06 PM
85 posts and no Iraqi information minister pic yet? Fark I am disappoint.
 
2013-01-12 12:06:00 AM
I'd give my surprised face, but my jaw automatically locks into place whenever Wal-Mart's involved. Sometimes its the only thing that keeps me from passing out from pure disgust.

/Bribery is bad. It doesn't matter if everyone else does it or where. Lying about it isn't exactly a virtue either.
 
2013-01-12 02:10:48 AM
FTFA: The story focused on how Wal-Mart paid $52,000 to secure approval to build its store in Teotihuacan on the site of ancient ruins. Although local zoning would have prohibited Wal-Mart from building its store, the Times reported that the company allegedly bribed local officials to have that map redrawn.

There's some seriously bad juju for you.
 
2013-01-12 02:37:25 PM

Snowflake Tubbybottom: You never go full Benghazi.

/amirite


That's supposed to mean something in your head, I imagine...
 
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