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(ABC)   Walmart spokesman: The e-mails released that show CEO was told about the bribes before they happened "leaves the wrong impression that our public statements {that we didn't know about the bribes} are contradicted" Baghdad Bob? Is that you?   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 89
    More: Unlikely, Baghdad Bob, Wal-Mart, CEO, foreign official, bribes, Brooke Buchanan, Henry A. Waxman, documents  
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6513 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jan 2013 at 3:22 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-11 02:19:28 PM
Impression?  Like the 'impression' a hammer leaves when beaten against one's forehead.

I will say I'm getting sick having to take a mess of training modules at work every time some other company farks up.
 
2013-01-11 02:31:57 PM
Meh, I figure that many businesses have to grease the wheels both here and abroad to get things moving.
 
2013-01-11 02:34:27 PM

basemetal: Meh, I figure that many businesses have to grease the wheels both here and abroad to get things moving.


Well, having taken all those awful training modules I can say there are ways to do it without breaking the laws.  The laws are pretty clear and straightforward.
 
2013-01-11 02:42:29 PM

basemetal: Meh, I figure that many businesses have to grease the wheels both here and abroad to get things moving.


As a kid I learned, you don't get punished for the things you do, you get punished for getting caught. It's not about being right or wrong, it's about being smart or stupid.
 
2013-01-11 02:59:10 PM

basemetal: Meh, I figure that many businesses have to grease the wheels both here and abroad to get things moving.


Would it be better if we called it fees? It's Mexico if you dont show up with a pocket full of 20s to hand out you won't even get of the airport grounds!
 
2013-01-11 03:26:31 PM
Do they really need a Walmart on the site of ancient ruins? Es Stupido.
 
2013-01-11 03:26:44 PM
I'm shocked, SHOCKED that Walmart Mexico officials would hand out bribes.
 
2013-01-11 03:28:00 PM
Ah, hello. Well first of all I'd like to apologize for the behaviour of certain of my colleagues you may have seen earlier, but they are from broken homes, circus families and so on and they are in no way representative of the new modern improved British Navy. They are a small vociferous minority; and may I take this opportunity of emphasizing that there is no cannibalism in the British Navy. Absolutely none, and when I say none, I mean there is a certain amount, more than we are prepared to admit, but all new ratings are warned that if they wake up in the morning and find any toothmarks at all anywhere on their bodies, they're to tell me immediately so that I can immediately take every measure to hush the whole thing up. And, finally, necrophilia is right out.
 
2013-01-11 03:30:17 PM
Sounds like something Mitt "I was retro-actively not the CEO of Bain Capital over that date range" Rmoney would say.
 
2013-01-11 03:30:25 PM
When in Rome.
 
2013-01-11 03:30:29 PM
It isn't that they didn't not first know about it beforehand. It's just that they weren't uninformed when the time rolled around even when they couldn't have gotten the papers after the fact.
 
2013-01-11 03:31:09 PM

rumpelstiltskin: basemetal: Meh, I figure that many businesses have to grease the wheels both here and abroad to get things moving.

As a kid I learned, you don't get punished for the things you do, you get punished for getting caught. It's not about being right or wrong, it's about being smart or stupid.


I don't like to acknowledge the role that chance plays, so when I have a sprout of good luck, I attribute that to my superior intelligence or work ethic.
 
2013-01-11 03:33:38 PM
Anyone who has worked in any level of executive management knows that e-mail is hardly the medium that CEOs use to run their business.

It's far more likely that he was CCed on the e-mail chain with a ton of RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:FW:RE - but hes culpable because he was copied?

Now if he was directly mailed this issue and did nothing, that's an entirely different issue.

/the higher up you are the more e-mail you get and the less e-mail you read...
//seen inboxes from executives with 50,000 messages sitting in there... total insanity.
 
2013-01-11 03:33:49 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: basemetal: Meh, I figure that many businesses have to grease the wheels both here and abroad to get things moving.

Would it be better if we called it fees? It's Mexico if you dont show up with a pocket full of 20s to hand out you won't even get of the airport grounds!


Which is why the FCPA is a rather bullshiat law that does nothing but reduce the competitiveness of US companies in (corrupt) foreign countries.

/Heck, in France, you used to be able to write off foreign bribes on your taxes
//the frogs changed the law in 2002 (IIRC), but Airbus and a few others are still notorious for graft
 
2013-01-11 03:37:58 PM

themasterdebater: Now if he was directly mailed this issue and did nothing, that's an entirely different issue.

The emails released Thursday include an email from November 2005 from Maritza Munich, then general counsel of Wal-Mart International, to Duke and other senior Wal-Mart executives. The email informed them of charges related to bribes paid to obtain permits for a store in Mexico.

 
2013-01-11 03:40:14 PM

OptionC: The Stealth Hippopotamus: basemetal: Meh, I figure that many businesses have to grease the wheels both here and abroad to get things moving.

Would it be better if we called it fees? It's Mexico if you dont show up with a pocket full of 20s to hand out you won't even get of the airport grounds!

Which is why the FCPA is a rather bullshiat law that does nothing but reduce the competitiveness of US companies in (corrupt) foreign countries.

/Heck, in France, you used to be able to write off foreign bribes on your taxes
//the frogs changed the law in 2002 (IIRC), but Airbus and a few others are still notorious for graft


So your argument is that bribery is acceptable?
 
2013-01-11 03:41:18 PM

themasterdebater: Anyone who has worked in any level of executive management knows that e-mail is hardly the medium that CEOs use to run their business.

It's far more likely that he was CCed on the e-mail chain with a ton of RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:FW:RE - but hes culpable because he was copied?

Now if he was directly mailed this issue and did nothing, that's an entirely different issue.

/the higher up you are the more e-mail you get and the less e-mail you read...
//seen inboxes from executives with 50,000 messages sitting in there... total insanity.


So the CEO is responsible enough for Walmart's successes to make $35,000,000 a year, but has no responsibility for it's errors?
 
2013-01-11 03:42:53 PM
img845.imageshack.us

Stories like this always crack me up - a few politicians get upset that a company is bribing officials in other countries. The only real issue here is that Mexico hasn't developed yet to the point where bribery is legal... as it is in the United States (obfuscated through a barrage of ridiculous laws based upon over-generalized principles that the proles can get behind). Undoubtedly these politicians didn't receive any Walmart money in their home country, so they go after the "illegal bribery" in Mexico.

/I loathe the charade that is politics
//okay, maybe it doesn't crack me up after all
 
2013-01-11 03:43:37 PM
The drug lords are like, stop bribing our goverment.
 
2013-01-11 03:45:53 PM

themasterdebater: Anyone who has worked in any level of executive management knows that e-mail is hardly the medium that CEOs use to run their business.


One fortune 50 CEO I knew had his e-mails printed out and wrote responses in a private room off his main office.  One of his blue haired admins then took all the scribbles and types them back into the system.
 
2013-01-11 03:46:24 PM
toomuchmarisa

The only real issue here is that Mexico hasn't developed yet to the point where bribery is legal...

It's not legal down there? Tijuana cops seems to think it is.
 
2013-01-11 03:46:24 PM
The obvious solution is to drop the U.S. laws prohibiting U.S. companies from engaging in bribery in other countries. I mean, come on - competitive disadvantage!
 
2013-01-11 03:46:28 PM

Warlordtrooper: OptionC: The Stealth Hippopotamus: basemetal: Meh, I figure that many businesses have to grease the wheels both here and abroad to get things moving.

Would it be better if we called it fees? It's Mexico if you dont show up with a pocket full of 20s to hand out you won't even get of the airport grounds!

Which is why the FCPA is a rather bullshiat law that does nothing but reduce the competitiveness of US companies in (corrupt) foreign countries.

/Heck, in France, you used to be able to write off foreign bribes on your taxes
//the frogs changed the law in 2002 (IIRC), but Airbus and a few others are still notorious for graft

So your argument is that bribery is acceptable?


I would say that in some countries, yes, because that is how business is done. I wouldn't suggest we import the system, since it is a pretty awful way to run a country, but there is no reason to put US companies at a severe disadvantage to their Asian and European competitors who have no such qualms when bidding on contracts in countries where casual corruption is a way of life.

The quickest way to boost US exports and increase job growth in export sectors would be to repeal the FCPA immediately.
 
2013-01-11 03:46:32 PM
I get shiat tons of emails and when I get backed up sometimes I'll skim them without reading every farking line.

I'd have to see the emails, who was on them, who was Cced, who replied to the email chain, etc before u could even make an educated guess in whether the ceo saw it.

But don't let that stop any of you guys...
 
2013-01-11 03:47:51 PM
You know, they are right, that is going to make it very hard for them to get out of this. Corruption from the very top, is /anybody/ surprised?
 
2013-01-11 03:49:23 PM
Strange that most of these comments seem to view bribery as an acceptable business practice.
 
2013-01-11 03:49:30 PM

basemetal: Meh, I figure that many businesses have to grease the wheels both here and abroad to get things moving.


This

/doesn't make it right. But it's reality.
 
2013-01-11 03:50:26 PM

rumpelstiltskin: basemetal: Meh, I figure that many businesses have to grease the wheels both here and abroad to get things moving.

As a kid I learned, you don't get punished for the things you do, you get punished for getting caught. It's not about being right or wrong, it's about being smart or stupid.


Damn straight
 
2013-01-11 03:51:02 PM

OptionC: I would say that in some countries, yes, because that is how business is done. I wouldn't suggest we import the system, since it is a pretty awful way to run a country, but there is no reason to put US companies at a severe disadvantage to their Asian and European competitors who have no such qualms when bidding on contracts in countries where casual corruption is a way of life.


Agreed.

In some countries, wholesale murder and pillaging are acceptable. If you don't set yourself up as a demigod and extract ivory from the natives, then you put yourself at a severe disadvantage.

/ exterminate all the brutes
 
2013-01-11 03:51:49 PM

skinink: I'm shocked, SHOCKED that Walmart Mexico officials would hand out bribes.


I know it is against US law to offer bribes in foreign countries to do business, but who holds companies to laws these days anyways? The bigger WalMart scandal was that they paid their employees in store credit, that is supervillian territory.
 
2013-01-11 03:53:57 PM
You never go full Benghazi.

/amirite
 
2013-01-11 03:54:21 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: basemetal: Meh, I figure that many businesses have to grease the wheels both here and abroad to get things moving.

Would it be better if we called it fees? It's Mexico if you dont show up with a pocket full of 20s to hand out you won't even get of the airport grounds!


What Wal-mart did in this case was go WAY beyond garden-variety "grease the wheels to get a building permit faster" bribery.   They wanted build a Wal-Mart grocery store on a particular spot that was currently an Alfalfa farm.  There was a huge public outcry,  for a a lot of reasons and after the local planning commision looked at all the factors like traffic, cultural importance , etc,  they said "fark no" and drew a map that zoned that land exclusively for agricultural use.

In Mexico zoning maps are not offical until they are published in the offical government newspaper.(like our federal register)  Somehow between the time the map was drawn, and voted on, and the time it was published it got re-drawn in Wal-mart's favor, zoning the land they wanted as commercial-something Wal-mart knew was going to happen because they had already gone ahead and bought the farm.   Then they pretty much bought the local mayor and were allowed to build the store with no site plan, no building spections, no swere permits etc

The e-mails between Wal-Mex officials and the Betonville home office detail exactly how they pulled this off
 
2013-01-11 03:55:37 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: OptionC: I would say that in some countries, yes, because that is how business is done. I wouldn't suggest we import the system, since it is a pretty awful way to run a country, but there is no reason to put US companies at a severe disadvantage to their Asian and European competitors who have no such qualms when bidding on contracts in countries where casual corruption is a way of life.

Agreed.

In some countries, wholesale murder and pillaging are acceptable. If you don't set yourself up as a demigod and extract ivory from the natives, then you put yourself at a severe disadvantage.

/ exterminate all the brutes


Yes, because buying a car for a mid-level bureaucrat in Derpaderpastan in order to facilitate a multi-million dollar deal that could provide jobs to ordinary Americans is exactly the same as wholesale murder, pillaging and oppression.
 
2013-01-11 03:56:17 PM
nsm08.casimages.com
http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2012/12/16//12121604573915733010671259 . jpg
 
2013-01-11 03:58:19 PM

OptionC:
Yes, because buying a car for a mid-level bureaucrat in Derpaderpastan in order to facilitate a multi-million dollar deal that could provide jobs to ordinary Americans is exactly the same as wholesale murder, pillaging and oppression.


Why is bribery a legitimate candidate for the application of cultural relativism but the use of physical force is not?
 
2013-01-11 04:01:00 PM

Warlordtrooper: OptionC: The Stealth Hippopotamus: basemetal: Meh, I figure that many businesses have to grease the wheels both here and abroad to get things moving.

Would it be better if we called it fees? It's Mexico if you dont show up with a pocket full of 20s to hand out you won't even get of the airport grounds!

Which is why the FCPA is a rather bullshiat law that does nothing but reduce the competitiveness of US companies in (corrupt) foreign countries.

/Heck, in France, you used to be able to write off foreign bribes on your taxes
//the frogs changed the law in 2002 (IIRC), but Airbus and a few others are still notorious for graft

So your argument is that bribery is acceptable?


Its been a while sense I studied FCPA, but I believe basic greasing the wheel is acceptable. If there is a standard guy your supposed to pay when you submit form A, everyone pays him. Its no big deal. On the other hand if it gives you a competitive advantage, IE most people pay a token amount, but if you slip him a few grand you get to the front of the line, then that crosses the line and is unacceptable. Either way it all must be on the books and recorded. Its the difference between tipping your waiter and paying him to poison the other guys food.
But then again, I'm not positive I'm right. Anyone else care to chime in?
 
2013-01-11 04:02:45 PM

Diogenes: Impression?  Like the 'impression' a hammer leaves when beaten against one's forehead.

I will say I'm getting sick having to take a mess of training modules at work every time some other company farks up.


YUP - THIS
 
2013-01-11 04:03:07 PM
Warlordtrooper: So your argument is that bribery is acceptable?

Acceptable? Not really but they are necessary if you want to compete on the international level.
 
2013-01-11 04:04:51 PM
sounds like somebody didn't get paid enough..
 
2013-01-11 04:05:18 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: OptionC:
Yes, because buying a car for a mid-level bureaucrat in Derpaderpastan in order to facilitate a multi-million dollar deal that could provide jobs to ordinary Americans is exactly the same as wholesale murder, pillaging and oppression.

Why is bribery a legitimate candidate for the application of cultural relativism but the use of physical force is not?


Because using physical force to impose your will is pretty much universally condemned while consensual transactions between two parties is a much bigger grey area?

And what constitutes a bribe is pretty fuzzy to begin with - In some Asian cultures, buying lavish gifts for customers isn't really considered "bribery" so much as "politeness", even though in doing so you can run afoul of the FCPA.

Any other stupid questions?
 
2013-01-11 04:06:34 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Warlordtrooper: So your argument is that bribery is acceptable?

Acceptable? Not really but they are necessary if you want to compete on the international level.


Then the answer is to not do business with those countries who will not play by the rules. Sorry if that gets in the way of the Corpfapper Globalism dreams, but it is what it is. It's what you sold this country out for, after all.
 
2013-01-11 04:07:07 PM

j__z: toomuchmarisa

The only real issue here is that Mexico hasn't developed yet to the point where bribery is legal...

It's not legal down there? Tijuana cops seems to think it is.


Reynosa cops as well.

/they had dogs to sniff out the bribes
//to make sure everyone got some
 
2013-01-11 04:23:07 PM
FTFA: Brooke Buchanan, a Wal-Mart spokeswoman, said on Thursday that the letter that Waxman and Cummings wrote to Duke "leaves the wrong impression that our public statements are contradicted by the information they released today."

...

In the Times article, Wal-Mart spokesman Dave Tovar denied that executives in the U.S. knew anything about the alleged corruption involving construction of the store in Teotihuacan. Buchanan, the Wal-Mart spokeswoman, said Tovar's comment in the Times article was focused on events in 2004.

The emails released Thursday include an email from November 2005 from Maritza Munich, then general counsel of Wal-Mart International, to Duke and other senior Wal-Mart executives. The email informed them of charges related to bribes paid to obtain permits for a store in Mexico.


REALLY? Am I reading that right?

Because it sounds like the spokesperson's defense to "you lied about execs knowing about the bribery" is "that's a different bribery incident than the one we said execs didn't know about."
 
2013-01-11 04:23:44 PM

OptionC: Because using physical force to impose your will is pretty much universally condemned while consensual transactions between two parties is a much bigger grey area?


So... if fraud and trickery were acceptable devices in certain cultures, their practice by U.S. companies in foreign markets should be excused on relativist grounds?

I also dispute your assertion that "physical force to impose your will is pretty much universally condemned."

OptionC: Any other stupid questions?


You probably consider yourself to be "affable," don't you?
 
2013-01-11 04:25:45 PM
I just can't believe that politicians in ANY country would require bribes in order to get anything done.

I mean, I am just shocked.
 
2013-01-11 04:25:58 PM
If there is one thing I learned from Prince Keldar-- bribes rule the world of business.
 
2013-01-11 04:26:30 PM

Moroning: If there is one thing I learned from Prince Keldar-- bribes rule the world of business.


Don't wriggle your fingers at me.
 
2013-01-11 04:26:30 PM
That is clearly against the law. Time for a trial, large fine and jail time.

/who am I kidding CREAM
 
2013-01-11 04:28:51 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: So... if fraud and trickery were acceptable devices in certain cultures, their practice by U.S. companies in foreign markets should be excused on relativist grounds?


Yes.

In fact it largely is - a lot of advertising in foreign countries would be legally questionable in the US (and vice/versa). It's rather hard to think of *anything* in the world of business that is more relativist than the line between advertising and fraud, actually...
 
2013-01-11 04:31:00 PM

OptionC: The_Gallant_Gallstone: So... if fraud and trickery were acceptable devices in certain cultures, their practice by U.S. companies in foreign markets should be excused on relativist grounds?

Yes.

In fact it largely is - a lot of advertising in foreign countries would be legally questionable in the US (and vice/versa). It's rather hard to think of *anything* in the world of business that is more relativist than the line between advertising and fraud, actually...


And people complain that the US has too strong a regulatory environment.
 
2013-01-11 04:33:25 PM

pantojar: Strange that most of these comments seem to view bribery as an acceptable business practice.


I think it's acceptable per se. However, if you bribe somebody to do something, it's the same as if you committed the act yourself. Bribing somebody to commit a crime is a crime, and bribing for special consideration should get you into trouble.

Bribing somebody to do their job? Unfortunate, but should be acceptable.

/morally, not legally.
 
2013-01-11 04:35:11 PM

Captain_Ballbeard: Then the answer is to not do business with those countries who will not play by the rules. Sorry if that gets in the way of the Corpfapper Globalism dreams, but it is what it is.


So we should just stay behind our wall because the rest of the world doesn't share our high moral attitude ?! What's next not doing business with a country that puts porn on tv during the "family hour"? A little pay off here and a little pay off there is how the world runs. That's how we operate too, it's just that other countries are more honest about it.

Captain_Ballbeard: It's what you sold this country out for, after all


huh?
 
2013-01-11 04:36:02 PM

GORDON: Moroning: If there is one thing I learned from Prince Keldar-- bribes rule the world of business.

Don't wriggle your fingers at me.


hahahaha.....

/I used to read those books at least once a year.
/never could get into his other worlds though, not as fun.
 
2013-01-11 04:39:16 PM

occamswrist: I get shiat tons of emails and when I get backed up sometimes I'll skim them without reading every farking line.

I'd have to see the emails, who was on them, who was Cced, who replied to the email chain, etc before u could even make an educated guess in whether the ceo saw it.

But don't let that stop any of you guys...


Agreed.  For the amount of money a CEO makes, they couldn't possibly be bothered with responsibility for their job.
 
2013-01-11 04:45:42 PM
They should have gone through the proper channels. You know, bribing politicians indirectly by funding attack ads through a 501(c)(4).

Remember kids: if you give money to a low-level government worker who is trying to feed his family, you go to jail. If you give millions of dollars in de-facto campaign contributions to a famous millionaire senator, you are rewarded with lucrative government contracts.
 
2013-01-11 04:46:14 PM
Uh, wait...isn't that Mexico's "culture"? Quit hating on people's cultures, you racists!
 
2013-01-11 04:50:24 PM

pantojar: Strange that most of these comments seem to view bribery as an acceptable business practice.


In a lot of cultures (Mexico obviously being one) it isn't even considered a bribe, it's just the way things are done.

Shocking I know that different countries have different norms
 
2013-01-11 04:51:05 PM

Captain_Ballbeard: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Warlordtrooper: So your argument is that bribery is acceptable?

Acceptable? Not really but they are necessary if you want to compete on the international level.

Then the answer is to not do business with those countries who will not play by the rules. Sorry if that gets in the way of the Corpfapper Globalism dreams, but it is what it is. It's what you sold this country out for, after all.


You know how I can tell you've never been anywhere?
 
2013-01-11 04:54:26 PM

GrizzlyPouch: pantojar: Strange that most of these comments seem to view bribery as an acceptable business practice.

In a lot of cultures (Mexico obviously being one) it isn't even considered a bribe, it's just the way things are done.

Shocking I know that different countries have different norms


True in the US the norm is that CEOs gaet massive pay packages and bear no responsibility for their actions.
 
2013-01-11 04:55:26 PM
I still don't think it's acceptable, but I know a few people who run businesses in Mexico, and every single one of them have talked about how you have to do bribes if you want to do business there. I guess YMMV.
 
2013-01-11 05:01:02 PM

oh_please: Uh, wait...isn't that Mexico's "culture"? Quit hating on people's cultures, you racists!


Say what you will about the culture of corruption, at least it's a culture.
 
2013-01-11 05:01:37 PM

The First Four Katy Perry Albums: oh_please: Uh, wait...isn't that Mexico's "culture"? Quit hating on people's cultures, you racists!

Say what you will about the culture of corruption, at least it's a culture.


It is what it is.
 
2013-01-11 05:03:48 PM

OptionC: The_Gallant_Gallstone: OptionC: I would say that in some countries, yes, because that is how business is done. I wouldn't suggest we import the system, since it is a pretty awful way to run a country, but there is no reason to put US companies at a severe disadvantage to their Asian and European competitors who have no such qualms when bidding on contracts in countries where casual corruption is a way of life.

Agreed.

In some countries, wholesale murder and pillaging are acceptable. If you don't set yourself up as a demigod and extract ivory from the natives, then you put yourself at a severe disadvantage.

/ exterminate all the brutes

Yes, because buying a car for a mid-level bureaucrat in Derpaderpastan in order to facilitate a multi-million dollar deal that could provide jobs to ordinary Americans is exactly the same as wholesale murder, pillaging and oppression.


If the regime in Derpaderpastan is on the embargo list for murder, pillage, and oppression, it IS exactly the farking same.

Ethics only count if there's something at stake.
 
2013-01-11 05:04:22 PM

lewismarktwo: [nsm08.casimages.com image 478x260]
http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2012/12/16//12121604573915733010671259 . jpg


bravo
 
2013-01-11 05:06:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2tct_lRvss

She is stunningly full of crap. Amazing. She is a complete drone - do NOT have sex with her, unless you want to have...you know, dirty robot sex...
 
2013-01-11 05:08:59 PM
Soon:

abovethelaw.com
 
2013-01-11 05:18:20 PM

j__z: toomuchmarisa

The only real issue here is that Mexico hasn't developed yet to the point where bribery is legal...

It's not legal down there? Tijuana cops seems to think it is.


Legal? Maybe not but it's the way things are done in some places.
 
2013-01-11 05:28:57 PM
I have had to deal with Chinese government officials on several occasions. You will get nothing done in China without a "Gift" for each official you dealt with.

I always packed one suitcase with nothing but gifts each trip. And the higher the official was up the food chain, the better the gift had to be. High end liquor was well looked upon.
 
2013-01-11 05:36:52 PM
Old and busted: Bribes to keep Wal-Mart from opening stores in Chicago.
New hotness: Bribes to help Wal-Mart open stores in Mexico.
 
2013-01-11 05:39:29 PM
You libs are fools. If every American doesn't have the right -- the inalienable right -- to corrupt the highest levels of any government on Earth, Osama bin Laden is celebrating in his grave.

What is freedom if not the right to personally own more than the GDP of California? Without the right to turn swathes of Latin America into your personal fiefdom, do you think these titans of industry would have any motivation to grow their company? Of course not! They'd simply go back to hand-crafting widgets or digging sewers for the love of the job! Why worry about the constant stress of being the sole person in charge -- the business calls, the business lunches, the business rounds of golf in Tuscany -- when you can be one of the lucky duckies on payroll? Think about it: free healthcare, free cell phones, refrigerators in every home. All made possible by the poor bastard slaving away in his 49th story office. And all you had to do in return was stay silent when 0bama made spanking illegal and claimed the right of primae noctis with Ann Romney. It didn't even fit the definition of the term! This is what you let happen, America!

/it's all fine until he comes for your wife, right?
//I'd say God help us all, but 0bama banned that too
 
2013-01-11 05:45:29 PM
Meh. It's only the way business has been done all over the world since forever.

Link
 
2013-01-11 06:08:40 PM

BitTwist: I have had to deal with Chinese government officials on several occasions. You will get nothing done in China without a "Gift" for each official you dealt with.

I always packed one suitcase with nothing but gifts each trip. And the higher the official was up the food chain, the better the gift had to be. High end liquor was well looked upon.


THIS. It's basic protocol in China, and is taught as a matter-of-course in any real business school.
 
2013-01-11 06:52:23 PM
Aha!
 
2013-01-11 07:59:09 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: basemetal: Meh, I figure that many businesses have to grease the wheels both here and abroad to get things moving.

Would it be better if we called it fees? It's Mexico if you dont show up with a pocket full of 20s to hand out you won't even get of the airport grounds!


^^^^^^^^^^
THIS

If you ever go into Mexico bring cash it will get you out of many situations.

CSB Surf trip to Baja got pulled over just outside of TJ and the cop kept hassling me and I wasn't interested in paying money 1 hour into the trip. He looked at me and said we will impound car and find drugs (we hadn't procured any yet) so i said but you won't find any we don't have any. He pulled down his shades and peered over them and said "we...will...find...drugs" needless to say I handed him a $20 and was on my way.
 
2013-01-11 08:04:02 PM
Wal-Mart Stores Inc.'s CEO Mike Duke found out in 2005 that the retailer's Mexico unit was handing out bribes to local officials, according to emails obtained by lawmakers.

The lawmakers say the emails contradict earlier claims by Wal-Mart that executives weren't aware of bribes being made by the company.


Gee, corporate golden umbrella empty suits lying to protect their bread and butter. Who would have thunk it?
 
2013-01-11 08:05:07 PM
I'm sure that somebody at WalMart didn't know about the bribes--possibly the illegal alien workers locked into the store at night to clean the floors.

Maybe the people involved in the bribes and the people in charge of everything knew about the bribes. We just need to find the right somebody who didn't and borrow his or her deniability* for a while.

*As the Reagan Administration and its military and spy agencies used to say.
 
2013-01-11 08:14:55 PM

MindStalker: Its been a while sense I studied FCPA, but I believe basic greasing the wheel is acceptable. If there is a standard guy your supposed to pay when you submit form A, everyone pays him. Its no big deal. On the other hand if it gives you a competitive advantage, IE most people pay a token amount, but if you slip him a few grand you get to the front of the line, then that crosses the line and is unacceptable. Either way it all must be on the books and recorded. Its the difference between tipping your waiter and paying him to poison the other guys food.
But then again, I'm not positive I'm right. Anyone else care to chime in?


If by "right", you mean the right way to end up with a huge fine, no job, and possible jail time, then sure. It doesn't even matter if the person handing out the money has ever even been in the US as long as they are doing it on behalf of your company. And it also doesn't matter if it's legal or not in the country where the bribing takes place.
 
2013-01-11 08:25:35 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: MindStalker: Its been a while sense I studied FCPA, but I believe basic greasing the wheel is acceptable. If there is a standard guy your supposed to pay when you submit form A, everyone pays him. Its no big deal. On the other hand if it gives you a competitive advantage, IE most people pay a token amount, but if you slip him a few grand you get to the front of the line, then that crosses the line and is unacceptable. Either way it all must be on the books and recorded. Its the difference between tipping your waiter and paying him to poison the other guys food.
But then again, I'm not positive I'm right. Anyone else care to chime in?

If by "right", you mean the right way to end up with a huge fine, no job, and possible jail time, then sure. It doesn't even matter if the person handing out the money has ever even been in the US as long as they are doing it on behalf of your company. And it also doesn't matter if it's legal or not in the country where the bribing takes place.

From http://tfoxlaw.wordpress.com/tag/facilitation-payments/

The FCPA states that it "shall not apply to any facilitating or expediting payment to a foreign official, political party, or party official the purpose of which is to expedite or to secure the performance of a routine governmental action . . ." Further, the FCPA has a list of examples of facilitation payments in the definition of routine governmental actions, which include the following:

Obtaining permits, licenses, or other official documents;
Processing governmental papers such as visas and work orders;
Providing police protection, mail services, scheduling inspections;
Providing utilities, cargo handling; or
Actions of a similar nature.

The key has always been whether the function in question was a "routine governmental action" because a facilitation payment is clearly a bribe. From the Court's discussion, it is clear that it is thinking that if the end goal of a facilitation payment is to obtain something that the person or entity making the facilitation knows that they are not entitled to, then it cannot be a facilitation payment because it is not a "routine governmental action".


Either way, I'm glad this isn't my job.
 
2013-01-11 09:00:33 PM
To undermine America for profit?
 
2013-01-11 09:01:23 PM
Grow America.

Now.

And that's that.
 
2013-01-11 09:03:15 PM
Produce home.
 
2013-01-11 09:23:27 PM

Indubitably: Aha!


I was about to give up on this thread as an average, boring Fark capitalism fight.

But now you're here. Time to make popcorn.
 
2013-01-11 09:41:52 PM

Lachwen: Indubitably: Aha!

I was about to give up on this thread as an average, boring Fark capitalism fight.

But now you're here. Time to make popcorn.


You're welcome.
 
2013-01-11 09:49:45 PM
This is impossible, because they paid everyone a lot of money not to talk to the media. And then they paid people in the media a lot of money to not report it. At this rate, they'll have to pay everyone who read the story to forget what they just read.

Bribery is hard.
 
2013-01-11 10:58:22 PM
cdn5.movieclips.com
Maybe kickbacks and mafia payouts are how you do business. But they are not part of the legitimate business world and will certainly not be taught in this Fark thread.
 
2013-01-11 11:06:06 PM
85 posts and no Iraqi information minister pic yet? Fark I am disappoint.
 
2013-01-12 12:06:00 AM
I'd give my surprised face, but my jaw automatically locks into place whenever Wal-Mart's involved. Sometimes its the only thing that keeps me from passing out from pure disgust.

/Bribery is bad. It doesn't matter if everyone else does it or where. Lying about it isn't exactly a virtue either.
 
2013-01-12 02:10:48 AM
FTFA: The story focused on how Wal-Mart paid $52,000 to secure approval to build its store in Teotihuacan on the site of ancient ruins. Although local zoning would have prohibited Wal-Mart from building its store, the Times reported that the company allegedly bribed local officials to have that map redrawn.

There's some seriously bad juju for you.
 
2013-01-12 02:37:25 PM

Snowflake Tubbybottom: You never go full Benghazi.

/amirite


That's supposed to mean something in your head, I imagine...
 
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