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(Breitbart.com)   'The Bible', airing in March, promises to be a faithful adaptation of the stories of ancient peoples and their alien sky-wizards   (breitbart.com) divider line 225
    More: Interesting, Bibles, Hollywood, melody, Mark Burnett, adaptations, superstar, Darren Aronofsky  
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2047 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 11 Jan 2013 at 9:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-11 03:50:10 PM

Gone to Plaid: I've always been fond of the idea that the universe as it exists is simply the result of Cosmic AC figuring out how to reverse entropy.


Or Maxwell's Demon getting very bored.
 
2013-01-11 03:53:49 PM

Gone to Plaid: Farking Canuck: The problem here is that this is a fabricated situation with a completely unrealistic response by your fictional atheist. In other words, you have built a strawman atheist.

Admittedly yes, this is a very obvious strawman argument...built upon responses seen in this thread that essentially boil down to "why would I respect you when you believe in crazy...you deserve to be mocked"

That kind of thinking doesn't exactly further a duscussion either. BTW I do know how atheists think and act within my person social bubble, and it is very contrary to the way some fark atheists portray themselves.


Because you know a few, they are all like that? At least that's how I'm reading it. What I'm getting is that some atheist are assholes because religious folks are assholes about being religious. I'd be an asshole too if some kept trying to convince me about some old fark in the sky. these people (both sides) remind me of apple customers...
 
2013-01-11 03:57:59 PM
It's the History channel. So how are they going to work Hitler into it?
 
2013-01-11 04:02:41 PM

runwiz: It's the History channel. So how are they going to work Hitler into it?


And aliens...
 
2013-01-11 04:24:03 PM

Charlie Chingas: these people (both sides) remind me of apple customers...


imgs.xkcd.com

/oblig
 
2013-01-11 04:27:53 PM

Charlie Chingas: Gone to Plaid: Farking Canuck: The problem here is that this is a fabricated situation with a completely unrealistic response by your fictional atheist. In other words, you have built a strawman atheist.

Admittedly yes, this is a very obvious strawman argument...built upon responses seen in this thread that essentially boil down to "why would I respect you when you believe in crazy...you deserve to be mocked"

That kind of thinking doesn't exactly further a duscussion either. BTW I do know how atheists think and act within my person social bubble, and it is very contrary to the way some fark atheists portray themselves.

Because you know a few, they are all like that? At least that's how I'm reading it. What I'm getting is that some atheist are assholes because religious folks are assholes about being religious. I'd be an asshole too if some kept trying to convince me about some old fark in the sky. these people (both sides) remind me of apple customers...


The many atheists I know are good people, not sure if you were reading my comment as saying they were assholes. And the christian you describe would piss me off too. Even when I identified myself as a catholic, my response would have been "keep that shiat to yourself and go worship in private like you are supposed to."

I think Felix hit the nail on the head with what he said above...what we have is a problem of transference.

Also I'd like to throw PC/Console fanboys in the BSAD category.
 
2013-01-11 04:29:49 PM
BSAB

fark me I can't type this morning.
 
2013-01-11 04:42:26 PM

Gone to Plaid: Charlie Chingas: Gone to Plaid: Farking Canuck: The problem here is that this is a fabricated situation with a completely unrealistic response by your fictional atheist. In other words, you have built a strawman atheist.

Admittedly yes, this is a very obvious strawman argument...built upon responses seen in this thread that essentially boil down to "why would I respect you when you believe in crazy...you deserve to be mocked"

That kind of thinking doesn't exactly further a duscussion either. BTW I do know how atheists think and act within my person social bubble, and it is very contrary to the way some fark atheists portray themselves.

Because you know a few, they are all like that? At least that's how I'm reading it. What I'm getting is that some atheist are assholes because religious folks are assholes about being religious. I'd be an asshole too if some kept trying to convince me about some old fark in the sky. these people (both sides) remind me of apple customers...

The many atheists I know are good people, not sure if you were reading my comment as saying they were assholes. And the christian you describe would piss me off too. Even when I identified myself as a catholic, my response would have been "keep that shiat to yourself and go worship in private like you are supposed to."

I think Felix hit the nail on the head with what he said above...what we have is a problem of transference.

Also I'd like to throw PC/Console fanboys in the BSAD category.


Yeap. Throw in Linux. Chocolate vs. Peanut Butter. Anything, basically. People have become so egocentric.
 
2013-01-11 04:43:14 PM

jjwars1: The skywizard thing is old and tired. Atheists, if you want religious folks to respect your opinion and take you seriously you'll have to quit acting like you are the superior supreme being douche, and treat them with the same amount of respect as you command.


If you have ridiculous, patently false beliefs, expect to be ridiculed for them.
 
2013-01-11 04:45:31 PM

PIP_the_TROLL: rtaylor92: jjwars1: The skywizard thing is old and tired. Atheists, if you want religious folks to respect your opinion and take you seriously you'll have to quit acting like you are the superior supreme being douche, and treat them with the same amount of respect as you command.

by default, those not believing in supernatural deities with as much proof of their existence as Harry Potter or any other literary fictional character, have a right to feel superior. Sorry, thems the breaks for believing in crazy.

And while we're here, I'd love to better understand what grounds religious people would have to not respect an atheists fact-based belief system.

99.9% of the 'facts' atheists believe in have never been independently verified by themselves, so such belief is as faith-based as anything else.


OOOOH BURN
 
2013-01-11 04:46:54 PM

All2morrowsparTs: PIP_the_TROLL: rtaylor92: jjwars1: The skywizard thing is old and tired. Atheists, if you want religious folks to respect your opinion and take you seriously you'll have to quit acting like you are the superior supreme being douche, and treat them with the same amount of respect as you command.

by default, those not believing in supernatural deities with as much proof of their existence as Harry Potter or any other literary fictional character, have a right to feel superior. Sorry, thems the breaks for believing in crazy.

And while we're here, I'd love to better understand what grounds religious people would have to not respect an atheists fact-based belief system.

99.9% of the 'facts' atheists believe in have never been independently verified by themselves, so such belief is as faith-based as anything else.

That is the silliest comment ever. I have never been to Wyoming, but I don't have to have faith to know it exists.


You saw it on a map and just believed it exists? That seems to take some level of faith that you just aren't being screwed with.
 
2013-01-11 04:47:13 PM

Charlie Chingas: Gone to Plaid: Charlie Chingas: Gone to Plaid: Farking Canuck: The problem here is that this is a fabricated situation with a completely unrealistic response by your fictional atheist. In other words, you have built a strawman atheist.

Admittedly yes, this is a very obvious strawman argument...built upon responses seen in this thread that essentially boil down to "why would I respect you when you believe in crazy...you deserve to be mocked"

That kind of thinking doesn't exactly further a duscussion either. BTW I do know how atheists think and act within my person social bubble, and it is very contrary to the way some fark atheists portray themselves.

Because you know a few, they are all like that? At least that's how I'm reading it. What I'm getting is that some atheist are assholes because religious folks are assholes about being religious. I'd be an asshole too if some kept trying to convince me about some old fark in the sky. these people (both sides) remind me of apple customers...

The many atheists I know are good people, not sure if you were reading my comment as saying they were assholes. And the christian you describe would piss me off too. Even when I identified myself as a catholic, my response would have been "keep that shiat to yourself and go worship in private like you are supposed to."

I think Felix hit the nail on the head with what he said above...what we have is a problem of transference.

Also I'd like to throw PC/Console fanboys in the BSAD category.

Yeap. Throw in Linux. Chocolate vs. Peanut Butter. Anything, basically. People have become so egocentric.


I blame the internet and the ability to easily find and/or create nigh impenetrable echo chambers online.
 
2013-01-11 05:01:07 PM

Snowflake Tubbybottom: All2morrowsparTs: PIP_the_TROLL: rtaylor92: jjwars1: The skywizard thing is old and tired. Atheists, if you want religious folks to respect your opinion and take you seriously you'll have to quit acting like you are the superior supreme being douche, and treat them with the same amount of respect as you command.

by default, those not believing in supernatural deities with as much proof of their existence as Harry Potter or any other literary fictional character, have a right to feel superior. Sorry, thems the breaks for believing in crazy.

And while we're here, I'd love to better understand what grounds religious people would have to not respect an atheists fact-based belief system.

99.9% of the 'facts' atheists believe in have never been independently verified by themselves, so such belief is as faith-based as anything else.

That is the silliest comment ever. I have never been to Wyoming, but I don't have to have faith to know it exists.

You saw it on a map and just believed it exists? That seems to take some level of faith that you just aren't being screwed with.


Claiming that Wyoming exists is not on the same scale as claiming that a god exists. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Normal everyday claims do not. If you come up to me at lunch and tell me that you've just come from the gym, I'm going to take your word for it. I'm not going to grill you and say "Oh yeah? Prove it!" and demand you prove your claim that you were at the gym (I'm sure some Farkers would say this but whatever). By the same token, there is a lot of evidence that Wyoming exists. Cartographers working independently of each other display Wyoming in the same location and with the same topographical features every time on every U.S. map that is currently produced. We have direct satellite imagery of Wyoming. You can actually get in a car and drive there.

By contrast, descriptions and evidence for a god is much different. Ask anyone who is a believer to describe their god and you're going to get several different answers depending on their faith, background, personal experience, etc. You're going to get completely different answers from each person. To say that Wyoming and god require the same amount of evidence for their existence is ludicrous.
 
2013-01-11 05:01:57 PM

Snowflake Tubbybottom: You saw it on a map and just believed it exists? That seems to take some level of faith that you just aren't being screwed with.


This is a silly argument and you know it.

Taking a position on any topic is all about weight of evidence. In the case of a location on earth like an entire state in the USA, there are mountains of evidence from innumerable, reliable sources that it exists. The weight of evidence is so significant that it is completely reasonable and logical to take a position that it exists even without personally viewing it.

Conversely, look at the weight of evidence supporting the idea that there is an invisible man living in the sky. Well there's the bible: known to be both intentionally and unintentionally corrupted and is brutally self-contradicting. So zero evidence there. What else is there ... blurry images burnt into toast ... unanswered prayers ... unverifiable claims of healing (but curiously never on amputees) ... etc.

The weight of evidence supporting the existence of a magical creator is effectively zero. Does that say that he can't or doesn't exist or that magic isn't real? No. But, based on the available evidence, it is logical and reasonable to take the position that god doesn't exist until new evidence arrives ... then the position will be re-evaluated.
 
2013-01-11 05:02:42 PM

factoryconnection: I'm not mean to religious people, they do so much good and charitable works and f*ck all of you that think that isn't true.


Using money to improve your church and recruit new members to spread your delusion aren't "good and chartiable" works.

Not to mention the fact that the god-botherers only behaving charitably out a sense of duty, obligation, or fear of punishment, while atheists and agnostics are charitable out of compassion and empathy.
Link
 
2013-01-11 05:07:39 PM

had98c: Snowflake Tubbybottom: All2morrowsparTs: PIP_the_TROLL: rtaylor92: jjwars1: The skywizard thing is old and tired. Atheists, if you want religious folks to respect your opinion and take you seriously you'll have to quit acting like you are the superior supreme being douche, and treat them with the same amount of respect as you command.

by default, those not believing in supernatural deities with as much proof of their existence as Harry Potter or any other literary fictional character, have a right to feel superior. Sorry, thems the breaks for believing in crazy.

And while we're here, I'd love to better understand what grounds religious people would have to not respect an atheists fact-based belief system.

99.9% of the 'facts' atheists believe in have never been independently verified by themselves, so such belief is as faith-based as anything else.

That is the silliest comment ever. I have never been to Wyoming, but I don't have to have faith to know it exists.

You saw it on a map and just believed it exists? That seems to take some level of faith that you just aren't being screwed with.

Claiming that Wyoming exists is not on the same scale as claiming that a god exists. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Normal everyday claims do not. If you come up to me at lunch and tell me that you've just come from the gym, I'm going to take your word for it. I'm not going to grill you and say "Oh yeah? Prove it!" and demand you prove your claim that you were at the gym (I'm sure some Farkers would say this but whatever). By the same token, there is a lot of evidence that Wyoming exists. Cartographers working independently of each other display Wyoming in the same location and with the same topographical features every time on every U.S. map that is currently produced. We have direct satellite imagery of Wyoming. You can actually get in a car and drive there.

By contrast, descriptions and evidence for a god is much different. Ask anyone who is a believer to describe their god and you're going to get several different answers depending on their faith, background, personal experience, etc. You're going to get completely different answers from each person. To say that Wyoming and god require the same amount of evidence for their existence is ludicrous.


And who said it did? You took a hell of a long road in circumventing that you have faith Wyoming exists, having never seeing it yourself.
 
2013-01-11 05:11:54 PM

Snowflake Tubbybottom: had98c: Snowflake Tubbybottom: All2morrowsparTs: PIP_the_TROLL: rtaylor92: jjwars1: The skywizard thing is old and tired. Atheists, if you want religious folks to respect your opinion and take you seriously you'll have to quit acting like you are the superior supreme being douche, and treat them with the same amount of respect as you command.

by default, those not believing in supernatural deities with as much proof of their existence as Harry Potter or any other literary fictional character, have a right to feel superior. Sorry, thems the breaks for believing in crazy.

And while we're here, I'd love to better understand what grounds religious people would have to not respect an atheists fact-based belief system.

99.9% of the 'facts' atheists believe in have never been independently verified by themselves, so such belief is as faith-based as anything else.

That is the silliest comment ever. I have never been to Wyoming, but I don't have to have faith to know it exists.

You saw it on a map and just believed it exists? That seems to take some level of faith that you just aren't being screwed with.

And who said it did? You took a hell of a long road in circumventing that you have faith Wyoming exists, having never seeing it yourself.


I've been to Wyoming. It exists.
 
2013-01-11 05:12:39 PM

had98c: Snowflake Tubbybottom: All2morrowsparTs: PIP_the_TROLL: rtaylor92: jjwars1: The skywizard thing is old and tired. Atheists, if you want religious folks to respect your opinion and take you seriously you'll have to quit acting like you are the superior supreme being douche, and treat them with the same amount of respect as you command.

by default, those not believing in supernatural deities with as much proof of their existence as Harry Potter or any other literary fictional character, have a right to feel superior. Sorry, thems the breaks for believing in crazy.

And while we're here, I'd love to better understand what grounds religious people would have to not respect an atheists fact-based belief system.

99.9% of the 'facts' atheists believe in have never been independently verified by themselves, so such belief is as faith-based as anything else.

That is the silliest comment ever. I have never been to Wyoming, but I don't have to have faith to know it exists.

You saw it on a map and just believed it exists? That seems to take some level of faith that you just aren't being screwed with.

Claiming that Wyoming exists is not on the same scale as claiming that a god exists. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Normal everyday claims do not. If you come up to me at lunch and tell me that you've just come from the gym, I'm going to take your word for it. I'm not going to grill you and say "Oh yeah? Prove it!" and demand you prove your claim that you were at the gym (I'm sure some Farkers would say this but whatever). By the same token, there is a lot of evidence that Wyoming exists. Cartographers working independently of each other display Wyoming in the same location and with the same topographical features every time on every U.S. map that is currently produced. We have direct satellite imagery of Wyoming. You can actually get in a car and drive there.

By contrast, descriptions and evidence for a god is much different. Ask anyone who is a believ ...


You want extraordinary proof? Try reading the bible. It's in there. There's your proof. Plus, my mommy told me so. So, there.
 
2013-01-11 05:16:03 PM

had98c: Snowflake Tubbybottom: had98c: Snowflake Tubbybottom: All2morrowsparTs: PIP_the_TROLL: rtaylor92: jjwars1: The skywizard thing is old and tired. Atheists, if you want religious folks to respect your opinion and take you seriously you'll have to quit acting like you are the superior supreme being douche, and treat them with the same amount of respect as you command.

by default, those not believing in supernatural deities with as much proof of their existence as Harry Potter or any other literary fictional character, have a right to feel superior. Sorry, thems the breaks for believing in crazy.

And while we're here, I'd love to better understand what grounds religious people would have to not respect an atheists fact-based belief system.

99.9% of the 'facts' atheists believe in have never been independently verified by themselves, so such belief is as faith-based as anything else.

That is the silliest comment ever. I have never been to Wyoming, but I don't have to have faith to know it exists.

You saw it on a map and just believed it exists? That seems to take some level of faith that you just aren't being screwed with.

And who said it did? You took a hell of a long road in circumventing that you have faith Wyoming exists, having never seeing it yourself.

I've been to Wyoming. It exists.


And god doesn't to me, being atheist and all. Faith itself doesn't live in a religious vacuum.
 
2013-01-11 05:18:18 PM

Farking Canuck: Epicedion: On a more technical track, that's a major strike against the Bible being a reliable portrayal of God. If you change a couple names there's no indication that the Old Testament and New Testament have very much to do with each other, and the gods are completely different.

Yup. If the New Testament was written today it would be considered more of a "Reboot" than a "Sequel"


I hope that Greedo shoots first in the reboot, just to troll the fan base.
 
2013-01-11 05:32:21 PM

jjwars1: The skywizard thing is old and tired. Atheists, if you want religious folks to respect your opinion and take you seriously you'll have to quit acting like you are the superior supreme being douche, and treat them with the same amount of respect as you command.


So you mean zero?

"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."

~ H. L. Mencken
 
2013-01-11 05:34:13 PM
So it's going to be 5,000 hours long. Who'd watch that.
 
2013-01-11 05:43:13 PM

Kali-Yuga: factoryconnection: I'm not mean to religious people, they do so much good and charitable works and f*ck all of you that think that isn't true.

Using money to improve your church and recruit new members to spread your delusion aren't "good and chartiable" works.

Not to mention the fact that the god-botherers only behaving charitably out a sense of duty, obligation, or fear of punishment, while atheists and agnostics are charitable out of compassion and empathy.
Link


This is absolute horse sh*t and you know it. I've done hundreds of hours of community service in my day with religious groups and none of it was out of fear of God's wrath. I didn't claim, as you did that the "others" do no good, I said that religious people are inspired constantly to help others in massive and meaningful ways. I didn't claim that all charitable giving to churches was a good action, yes I'm aware that expensive light-and-sound shows don't feed the poor. But you can't even get on a Habitat build around here as they're so inundated with work donations from church groups.

Believe it or not, when people go to a meeting every week and get solicited to donate or participate in charitable actions they're more likely to do it than people that are never asked. I will read your link, as I've often wondered about how church-based philanthropy breaks out.
 
2013-01-11 05:46:36 PM
 
2013-01-11 05:47:29 PM

rthanu: 7. Everyone who doesn't believe that story, or *never heard of the story* because it would be farking impossible for them to hear the "good news" still goes to hell.


Even when I was "indoctrinated" into the Faith as a kid, that was always a sore point with me.

/ agnostic now....
 
2013-01-11 06:03:11 PM
There is more evidence of the existence of global warming/climate change than there is the existence of god.
 
2013-01-11 06:16:20 PM

Nabb1: If you really think your little cartoon represents the opinions of all Christians towards atheists,


Nope. Just the in-your-face variety.
 
2013-01-11 06:20:24 PM

Gone to Plaid: These are very good points. God may have been bipolar with his "Love me or die" theme in the old testament, but the message Jesus brought with him wasn't so bad.


Apart from the bad parts, of course:

i560.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-11 06:39:32 PM

Uncle Tractor: Gone to Plaid: These are very good points. God may have been bipolar with his "Love me or die" theme in the old testament, but the message Jesus brought with him wasn't so bad.

Apart from the bad parts, of course:

[i560.photobucket.com image 512x668]


So, god wants me IN him? never pictured him a bottom
 
2013-01-11 06:49:00 PM

Charlie Chingas: Uncle Tractor: Gone to Plaid: These are very good points. God may have been bipolar with his "Love me or die" theme in the old testament, but the message Jesus brought with him wasn't so bad.

Apart from the bad parts, of course:

[i560.photobucket.com image 512x668]

So, god wants me IN him? never pictured him a bottom


I guess he really is a Republican!
 
2013-01-11 06:55:36 PM

Snowflake Tubbybottom: And who said it did? You took a hell of a long road in circumventing that you have faith Wyoming exists, having never seeing it yourself.


I don't require faith to know Wyoming exists. Faith is defined as a belief not based on facts. I can see Wyoming on a map. I can talk to people that have been there. I can check satellite pictures of Wyoming. These are facts I can gather just sitting at my computer. If I wanted to, I could prove it exists:
Hypothesis: Wyoming exists
Test: Get on an airplane to Wyoming. Confirm via GPS.
Result: Wyoming exists.

Let's do the same with God:
Hypothesis: God exists
Test: ?

So let's not be pedantic enough to travel down this road.
 
2013-01-11 07:07:05 PM

Sarsin: Hypothesis: Wyoming exists
Test: Get on an airplane to Wyoming. Confirm via GPS.
Result: Wyoming exists.


I didn't claim Wyoming didn't exist, but I don't require empirical proof that it does either. I'm quite happy to believe that it does.

Atheists claim that the validity of their disbelief is that they refuse to believe in anything without empirical proof. Since empiricism can only truly be satisfied on a first-hand basis (and even then it could be a hallucination), anything short of vigorous testing of every single belief they hold makes them a hypocrite.

Your'e not supposed to believe. You're supposed to know beyond the shadow of any doubt based on empirical evidence collected by yourself. Otherwise it's just hearsay and blind faith.
 
2013-01-11 07:27:47 PM

PIP_the_TROLL: Atheists claim that the validity of their disbelief is that they refuse to believe in anything without empirical proof. Since empiricism can only truly be satisfied on a first-hand basis (and even then it could be a hallucination), anything short of vigorous testing of every single belief they hold makes them a hypocrite.

Your'e not supposed to believe. You're supposed to know beyond the shadow of any doubt based on empirical evidence collected by yourself. Otherwise it's just hearsay and blind faith.


This is a blatant lie. We all take our positions based on weight of evidence. The quality of the evidence affects how much weight it contributes to the sum total ... every world atlas shows Wyoming = good evidence ... some pedo-protector claims to talk to an invisible friend who gives him all the answers and he'll share them if I put money in the basket - bad evidence.

The evidence supporting the idea that god is real is pretty near zero ... therefore the logical position is to not believe until new evidence is presented.

Whereas the evidence supporting the existence of Wyoming is so vast that it is not only reasonable and logical to take a position that it is real (even without verifying it yourself) it would be unreasonable to deny its existence.

There are no absolutes like you are claiming. As usual, you are misrepresenting the atheist position because you are unable to assault our real position.
 
2013-01-11 07:39:11 PM
You misunderstand me. I'm merely holding you to the same standard you purport to hold people of faith. Since it's really Christians that most western atheists have a problem with, let's assume that's the belief system you're attacking. The most widely used version of the Bible is the KJV, and the assertions made in it do a pretty good job of laying out the world we live in and how we got here.

Now, if modern science disputes some of it, that's all well and good. But the 'evidence' from both physical and verbal history far older and even more widespread. The foundation of the 'evidence' you claim informs your decisions is new and has rewritten itself thousands of times in its short lifetime.

So if science can't even agree (evidentially) about things it's had hundreds of years and hundreds of thousands of experiments to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt, how is any hard and fast belief in it anything more than faith?

Your belief in the 'facts' (which from the perspective of most people is nothing but hearsay) is no more valid than ancient romans believing going to bed with boots on would give you a boy or insufficient bile being the cause of everything under the sun. They heard it from lots of learned men and it was written down all sorts of places as fact.
 
2013-01-11 07:39:30 PM
Here you go: Empirical evidence that Wyoming exists:

Link
 
2013-01-11 07:43:44 PM
How is that Empirical? Because somebody wrote Wyoming on a page and claims to have weather reports of places said to be there?

It snows in Narnia and the deserts on Vulcan are a biatch.

Want me to find pages for you that say that too and hence are proof they exist?
 
2013-01-11 07:52:16 PM

PIP_the_TROLL: The most widely used version of the Bible is the KJV, and the assertions made in it do a pretty good job of laying out the world we live in and how we got here.


media.comicvine.com

Light created on the first day. - The cause of light - stars and the sun, created on the fourth day

I can continue with more examples of the literally thousands of contradictions, and hundreds of historical, and scientific errors contained in the bible if you'd like.
 
2013-01-11 07:56:37 PM
Awesome. Go ask Hawking which came first. Light or stars.

Protip: Not only stars produce light.
 
2013-01-11 07:57:04 PM

PIP_the_TROLL: How is that Empirical? Because somebody wrote Wyoming on a page and claims to have weather reports of places said to be there?

It snows in Narnia and the deserts on Vulcan are a biatch.

Want me to find pages for you that say that too and hence are proof they exist?


They're actually live webcams which are broadcasting from various positions in Wyoming, which can be verified geographically by IP address among other ways. Plus you know, Ockham's Razor and all...

I can see where you're coming from though., When your entire worldview revolves around being willing to believe things without any sort of rational or logical proof you can imagine all sorts of interesting stories.

Vulcan and Narnia are nothing compared to cosmic jewish liches, snakes eating dirt, and women made from ribs.

I have to go feed the invisible pink unicon that lives in my garage now.
 
2013-01-11 08:04:12 PM
Apparently you're lacking a full grasp of the term 'empirical evidence'.
 
2013-01-11 08:11:37 PM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: Rated (R) for scenes of extreme violence and nudity


R? Some of them should be XXX. The bit where the concubine gets raped to death and then cut into pieces by her master is pretty freaking hardcore.
 
2013-01-11 08:14:15 PM

Felix_T_Cat: Having been an atheist, I still find 'Invisible Sky Wizard' hilarious. We giggle about it at church. Am also fond of 'Optimus Prime died for your sins.'

FWIW: The murdery rapey, incesty parts describe us as a people. (YMMV) Reporting, not condoning. You're supposed to be appalled, even when the guy cut up the girl and sent parts to the tribes. "Really God? You're trying to save us through _those_ people?" Yep, that's humanity all over. Look at the news, that's who we are.

David was a murder and an adulterer. Yet he was 'a man after God's heart', because he always repented. Not everybody repents. God showing up in the flesh didn't convince some people to repent.

Am also fond of the Apocrypha. It's got dragons and everything.


I'm curious about adult conversions to faith....why did you pick the religion that you did? Do you think that if you lived in India you might have gone for devotion to Krishna or Rama instead?
 
2013-01-11 08:28:07 PM

Slaves2Darkness:
You assume we want respect from retards that worship ancient myths.


In all fairness, lots of the ancient myths are ripping good stories, with thought provoking ideas on the general human condition.

I'd love to know what exactly went down during the ceremonies of some of the classical Mediterranean mystery cults. It was probably some pretty enlightening shiat, as many Roman and Greek writers went away from the experience commenting on how life altering it was.

Who knows, maybe they were just doing shrooms.
 
2013-01-11 08:32:21 PM

Epicedion: Gone to Plaid: These are very good points. God may have been bipolar with his "Love me or die" theme in the old testament, but the message Jesus brought with him wasn't so bad. A message that most religious 'leaders' seem to have forgotten.

On a more technical track, that's a major strike against the Bible being a reliable portrayal of God. If you change a couple names there's no indication that the Old Testament and New Testament have very much to do with each other, and the gods are completely different.


This is why Jews aren't Christian.
 
2013-01-11 08:41:10 PM

PIP_the_TROLL: Apparently you're lacking a full grasp of the term 'empirical evidence'.


It means it's potentially testable.

Supernatural things by their theoretical nature aren't testable.
 
2013-01-11 08:42:38 PM
Oh damn, I killed a dead thread.
This is what I get for not scrolling to the bottom.
 
2013-01-11 09:12:30 PM

PIP_the_TROLL: You misunderstand me. I'm merely holding you to the same standard you purport to hold people of faith. Since it's really Christians that most western atheists have a problem with, let's assume that's the belief system you're attacking.
The only religions people I have a problem with are the ones who think theirs is so awesome that I shouldn't have much of a choice in following it. For example, I am extremely against Islam too. Why? They have a tenancy to execute people (especially atheists) that don't believe as they do. If you want to believe in magic sky elephants, that's your choice. Do good works in the name of sky elephant. Peachy. It's when it turns into "Sky elephant DEMANDS we not eat waffles! WE NEED TO BAN ALL WAFFLES!" that the line is crossed. Understand?

The most widely used version of the Bible is the KJV, and the assertions made in it do a pretty good job of laying out the world we live in and how we got here.

Now, if modern science disputes some of it, that's all well and good. But the 'evidence' from both physical and verbal history far older and even more widespread. The foundation of the 'evidence' you claim informs your decisions is new and has rewritten itself thousands of times in its short lifetime.

So if science can't even agree (evidentially) about things it's had hundreds of years and hundreds of thousands of experiments to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt, how is any hard and fast belief in it anything more than faith?

Your belief in the 'facts' (which from the perspective of most people is nothing but hearsay) is no more valid than ancient romans believing going to bed with boots on would give you a boy or insufficient bile being the cause of everything under the sun. They heard it from lots of learned men and it was written down all sorts of places as fact.

If you're going to continue to be pedantic, then yes nothing can be proven 100%. If you want to shallowly define that 1% as faith, knock yourself out. I accept things to be true based on how close it gets to that 100% threshold. Higher power is currently sitting at maybe 1%. The Christian God would be about 1/300th of that, since there have been A LOT of religions in human history.

TL;DR: Just because you can't prove everything 100% doesn't mean everything that you can imagine is true.

 
2013-01-11 09:45:18 PM
Hmm, I guess I got to the end of my skills at surviving life and found them dismally insufficient. I looked for who was happy and was thoroughly annoyed to find that people who talked about god generally appeared to be happy. More so than any others. Not Christians mind you, just 'generic' god people.

I asked around about what to do & they suggested prayer. "Who am I praying to?" "Don't worry about it, just do it once a night." "How do I pray?" "Make a list of things & people and say thanks for them each night." So I would say thanks every night for a week and then stop to see if anything happened. Then I would lay off for a week to see if anything didn't happen. I repeated this cycle until I found that life was 'easier' during the prayer cycles. I'd drive across town in the middle of night to a place, get on my knees and say "I don't know what I'm doing and don't know who I'm talking to, but I'm here." And would say thanks down through my list. Later I added people I couldn't stand to the list and found that I could forgive old hurts.

About that time, a Christian said, "Hey, the bible won't kill you." Again, pretty annoyed, I picked up a Catholic bible and started reading from Genesis on. It really moved me. I didn't understand much and was pretty much reading it like a novel. I hated the new testament, but I read the old testament for about an hour a night over and over for about 4 or 5 years I think. Then a friend invited me to his church and this is when I got really hostile to them. But they kept inviting me back. I went to a bible study where the guy leading it would get in depth with themes running through the books and a bunch of us would try & work out what it meant. I got to see how they were thinking & it wasn't what I thought it was. It wasn't some monolithic thought police. If you could find enough evidence for your position and state your case, you wouldn't face opposition. You were allowed to come to your own conclusions.

I've tried a couple other things, Western Buddhism & etc... but the more I aligned myself with what Christianity was calling for, the better I'm able to live. In the beginning I was so sick, you'd have thought I had a diagnosis. I went from someone thoroughly prepared and trying to die, to someone with ridiculous amounts of courage and peace. My focus has gone from selfishness to near constant concern for the suffering of others. My friends and I go out several times a week trying to find & equip unsheltered homeless. Trying to get them back into community without bending them to our idea of what that should be. "Are you healthy, have you eaten, do you need boots?"

I've seen prayer accomplish some bizarre things. I can take a guy I don't know from crying & anguish to smiling in about a minute. It's happened many times. I met a guy at a coffee shop, "Hey, I'm Felix." "I'm Bill and I'm angry at God." "Well, we've all got a beef with God." "No, I'm angry about his mercy!" (No shiat, this really happened) I'd never met this guy before. A thought came to me, that I just don't think about. It's never been my thing. "Prostitution?" "Yeah, I do that." He starts crying & cursing, so I sit with him & pray for him. He starts cursing people who pray for him. We talked for a bout a half hour. I never saw him again, but my friend saw him a week or so later. "Where's that guy? I need that guy. I haven't felt this good for 10 years." My friend, who had only been a Christian for about 3 months, says: "You should come to church, imagine how it would feel if 40 people were praying for you." "Naw, I hate those people."

So I don't think I'd be practicing some other faith. I've only been a Christian for about 6 years. I don't have any opinion on other faiths, but I feel called and sustained. I'll work with anyone of any faith or stripe to help folks who are suffering. I work alongside social workers who are atheist. They've been very supportive. As soon as I told them what I wanted to do, they started taking me into the field and we cooperate locating and serving the homeless. I don't want to wreck their work & I can help them when they get to a person that they haven't been able to reach.

But to look at me briefly, Fark folks would label me a fundy. I wouldn't do this if there was no benefit. It's not to make me feel better. That's what I wanted at first, but that's not what I got. I've been through a lot of crap. Finding dead guys, detoxing heroin addicts in my house, trying to support MICA guys, care for hostile and unbalanced folks... By commercial standards, my life is pretty poor. I've got no 'me time'. But that's not the point. My life isn't my own and it's not about my happiness. Love God & love your neighbor. Love the unloveable. Love people that cost you. I don't blame God for suffering, I blame us and the search for comfort.
 
2013-01-11 09:47:49 PM

jjwars1: The skywizard thing is old and tired. Atheists, if you want religious folks to respect your opinion and take you seriously you'll have to quit acting like you are the superior supreme being douche, and treat them with the same amount of respect as you command.


It will never be tired so long as it remains accurate.
 
2013-01-11 09:51:48 PM

Epicedion: Gone to Plaid: I can't help but feel that only an asshole would think any of this behavior is not only justified, but necessary...like it's a public service to show these people just how irrational and crazy they are, even though in every other facet of their lives they are just like you.

Yeah, this hardly ever happens. We're just arguing on the internet, here.

Gone to Plaid: /Agnostic
//Do we get lumped in with theist?

Generally you get lumped in with atheists unless there's a god you believe actually exists. If you want to get technical, "Agnostic" on its own is a useless distinction.

Felix_T_Cat: We don't deserve answers

I don't like that. It's looped past "humble" and come back around as "arrogant." Metaphysical claims about how much humanity may deserve or not deserve some metaphysical thing are loopy, anyway.


That was a scripture joke. Sorry.
 
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