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(Mother Nature Network)   For the record, PETA is totally cool with us colonizing Mars just as long as we promise to make it 100% vegan   (mnn.com ) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Mars landing, Elon Musk, vegans, soylent greens  
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1994 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jan 2013 at 7:59 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-11 07:20:39 AM  
Stupid PETA. Mars isn't anywhere near Vega. :-/
 
2013-01-11 07:28:45 AM  
It's about damn time. Now that the last major obstacle is overcome, we can finally get underway.

I never thought I'd see this in my lifetime. I am so....I'm just overwhelmed. I am actually moved to tears.
 
2013-01-11 07:29:15 AM  
Yeah, like they are not going to pop the odd buggalo for protein.
 
2013-01-11 07:30:12 AM  
I'm sure these'll rust even on Mars
www.popularmechanics.com
 
2013-01-11 07:36:57 AM  
Mars won't suck enough WITHOUT BACON?
 
2013-01-11 08:01:48 AM  
I think Fark killed that website
 
2013-01-11 08:02:30 AM  
Wouldn't be eating anything but rabbit and chicken for a loooong time, anyway.
 
2013-01-11 08:04:01 AM  
but we can eat the Martians right? and, of course their cutest, tastiest animal?
 
2013-01-11 08:04:06 AM  
I'm sure the colony will remain 100% vegan right up until the failing colony plunges into anarchy and the crazed, starving colonists start cannibalizing the dead.
 
2013-01-11 08:05:10 AM  
Wouldn't that make sense initially anyway? It seems like a wasted step in such a sparse environment to expend the energy required to grow meat when you could just eat that energy yourself and grow the meat right on your own bones.

/ is it okay to eat other astronauts?
 
2013-01-11 08:05:23 AM  
I doubt space rations are vegan friendly.

Since humanity itself isn't vegan friendly.
 
2013-01-11 08:06:29 AM  
For the record, PETA can choke on a bowl of tofu-dicks.
 
2013-01-11 08:07:06 AM  
www.candycarrollton.com
 
2013-01-11 08:07:46 AM  

kid_icarus: I'm sure the colony will remain 100% vegan right up until the failing colony plunges into anarchy and the crazed, starving colonists start cannibalizing the dead.


"You know, I never thought I'd go out like this," said one of the cannibals on Mars as they slowly starve to death.

Gotta admit.  Out of all the possible ways one might think they would kick the bucket, that scenario would be pretty far down on the list of likely possibilities.
 
2013-01-11 08:10:02 AM  
How about we help all of the petatards colonize Mercury. We'll drop them down on the night side with no transportation. Eventually it'll become the sunside and we'll all sleep much, much better.
 
2013-01-11 08:10:18 AM  
Who asked them for an opinion?
 
2013-01-11 08:11:28 AM  
No goats?
 
2013-01-11 08:11:39 AM  
"The opportunity to colonize Mars means a chance to make a fresh start, especially now that we've degraded our own planet by treating our fellow animals like disposable widgets, filled the air with pollution that will soon make the sky in "Soylent Green" look clear, and populated the Earth with so many humans that the premise of "Logan's Run" starts to look practical," writes PETA.

It's good to see that PETA has regained a rational sense of direction and are tackling important issues with sensible, well-reasoned arguments.

/bunch of whackaloons
//raising livestock on Mars won't be practical for generations anyway
 
2013-01-11 08:11:55 AM  
So how much do they plan to chip in to start up a colony, in order to justify having a say in the matter?
 
2013-01-11 08:13:41 AM  
"You could also think of plants as pets. The crew just likes to nurture them."

Wait, I thought they didn't want us to eat our pets?
 
2013-01-11 08:18:24 AM  
They can all ride on the "B" ark.
 
2013-01-11 08:18:50 AM  
colonizing Mars

This will never happen in our lifetimes -- nor, indeed, in any human lifetime. Enjoy the twilight years of the human race while you still can.
 
2013-01-11 08:20:01 AM  
How about we cobble together a rocket that can leave earth orbit and tell peta that we need a first generation of vegan colonists.
 
2013-01-11 08:22:01 AM  
If I go to mars I am taking sausage with me anyway.
 
2013-01-11 08:24:28 AM  
why does PETA need a starship?
 
2013-01-11 08:25:40 AM  
I'm pretty sure that when colonizing a new planet you would eat whatever you can efficiently produce in the environment you are living and even then risk starvation and death on a yearly basis. Choices like;

- I don't like the taste of this food
- I won't eat an animal
- babies need to be grilled not fried
- we can't use biomass for fertilizer because I think it's icky

are not the sort of choices you are at liberty to make.
 
2013-01-11 08:26:47 AM  
PETA are way overboard and hurt their own cause, but a Mars colony would likely be vegan anyway. Meat is not a resource- or space-efficient way to eat. I'm not sure why they're even weighing in on this except to attention-whore as always.
 
2013-01-11 08:26:48 AM  
PETA needs to fark off now.

They have financially supported arsonist that have firebombed animal testing labs.

They are a group of farking wack jobs who should never own a gun.
 
2013-01-11 08:28:38 AM  
Don't worry, PETA. The indigenous animals are safe.
 
2013-01-11 08:29:22 AM  
I'm gonna be honest. If there is life on Mars, I'm going to kill one and eat it just to see what it tastes like.
 
2013-01-11 08:30:41 AM  
Keep Mars PETA-free! One infected planet is enough!

/now bring me my tasty, tasty meat...
 
2013-01-11 08:32:55 AM  
Please. I tried cooking Vegan for a week, even got a cook book recommended to me. I did it just from a personal "how do they do it?" point of view. A challenge to make good food within the constraints of the diet. I do that sort of thing occasionally just to mix it up a little, make life interesting.

It was terrible. There were passible things, but after awhile I felt like I was eating chicken feed. You lose weight being vegan because you look at food as a burden, not a joy, because there's nothing joyful about it. There were a few lentil dishes that were decent, and I have even made them again since then, but the majority of the dishes were merely "tolerable."

Apparently most vegans seem to live off processed food, or stuff you can't make yourself. Industrially designed fake cheese, industrially designed fake eggs, artificial flavouring to make things "meaty" and the like. I don't eat the fake crap in my normal diet so I didn't eat it when I tried the vegan thing, and "that was my mistake" according to some vegans.

Anyway, that week did it for me- it's not an acceptable diet, there has to be at least eggs and milk products in your diet. Hell I liked that Japanese algae-heavy macrobiotic crap better than the vegan stuff.

Another thing about a vegan diet- you get incredibly gassy. I never farted so much in my life. In public I had to occasionally excuse myself to discreetly "relieve the pressure."
 
2013-01-11 08:33:39 AM  

James F. Campbell: colonizing Mars

This will never happen in our lifetimes -- nor, indeed, in any human lifetime. Enjoy the twilight years of the human race while you still can.


Mars will eventually be where the 1%ers go when the earth is completely trashed. They can be safe there, living in obscene opulence, while the earth descends into chaos when the environment collapses. After things stabilize, they can recolonize the earth. You know, after wiping out or enslaving the survivors.

Do you really think the rich and powerful will stay here when things start to get really bad? We have the technology to colonize Mars now. Now it's just a matter of making that technology cheaper.
 
2013-01-11 08:35:44 AM  

netcentric: I'm gonna be honest. If there is life on Mars, I'm going to kill one and eat it just to see what it tastes like.


That's how we do it in Louisiana.. If it has feet and isn't human it's worth tasting.
 
2013-01-11 08:35:48 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Wouldn't that make sense initially anyway? It seems like a wasted step in such a sparse environment to expend the energy required to grow meat when you could just eat that energy yourself and grow the meat right on your own bones.

/ is it okay to eat other astronauts?


Not necessarily.

It could under certain circumstances be easier to grow plants that we can't digest, but that animals raised for stock can. Let's say we can get Plant X to readily grow on Mars because it's particularly adaptable to that regime, but it is generally indigestible to humans. We would of course need to spend resources to grow other plants that we can digest, but reserving a large area for the plants that require minimal care, and just letting livestock that are raised for food eat it, would be a good idea. It would even have some side benefits: The manure generated could be used as added fertilizer for the other crops.

The most efficient approach isn't always the *EASIEST* approach. Consider this: A Ford Model T is much less efficient than a modern hybrid, but it takes much less resources, technology, and knowledge to build a Model T than it does to build a Toyota Prius. Your average shade-tree mechanic can easily build and maintain a Model T, given the parts necessary. This is not true of a Prius. Yet for 90% of applications, the Model T would work just as well as the Prius, just not as efficiently.

Colonizing Mars is going to be *HARD*. If it happens that the easiest route to growing food is a mixed balance of animal husbandry and growing plants, then so be it. I wouldn't want to handicap ourselves out of the block.
 
2013-01-11 08:37:11 AM  

Plant Rights Activist: why does PETA need a starship?


To get them as far away from Earth as possible, to the benefit of all Mankind.
 
2013-01-11 08:40:47 AM  
Does PETA have reverence for Mother Mars and the buggalo?
 
2013-01-11 08:42:53 AM  
I sure hope none of them drive cars, since oil comes from dead animals yada yada yada

/am I doing this right
//Fark PETA
 
2013-01-11 08:42:58 AM  

Ikahoshi: Apparently most vegans seem to live off processed food, or stuff you can't make yourself. Industrially designed fake cheese, industrially designed fake eggs, artificial flavouring to make things "meaty" and the like. I don't eat the fake crap in my normal diet so I didn't eat it when I tried the vegan thing, and "that was my mistake" according to some vegans.


Humans are obligate omnivores. You can't get all the vitamins and minerals necessary by eating an all-meat or an all-plant diet, or at least you couldn't until modern technology allowed us to fortify foodstuffs.

There is no environment on Earth where you can live a healthy vegan (or healthy carnivore*) diet on just what grows naturally.

*By carnivore I mean all meat diet. The traditional Inuit winter diet comes closest to that, but they also ate a significant amount of plant foods during the short growing season, so they were only seasonally carnivores. By the time deficiencies would become a problem, they were eating plants again.
 
2013-01-11 08:43:47 AM  

dittybopper: Vegan Meat Popsicle: Wouldn't that make sense initially anyway? It seems like a wasted step in such a sparse environment to expend the energy required to grow meat when you could just eat that energy yourself and grow the meat right on your own bones.

/ is it okay to eat other astronauts?

Not necessarily.

It could under certain circumstances be easier to grow plants that we can't digest, but that animals raised for stock can. Let's say we can get Plant X to readily grow on Mars because it's particularly adaptable to that regime, but it is generally indigestible to humans. We would of course need to spend resources to grow other plants that we can digest, but reserving a large area for the plants that require minimal care, and just letting livestock that are raised for food eat it, would be a good idea. It would even have some side benefits: The manure generated could be used as added fertilizer for the other crops.

The most efficient approach isn't always the *EASIEST* approach. Consider this: A Ford Model T is much less efficient than a modern hybrid, but it takes much less resources, technology, and knowledge to build a Model T than it does to build a Toyota Prius. Your average shade-tree mechanic can easily build and maintain a Model T, given the parts necessary. This is not true of a Prius. Yet for 90% of applications, the Model T would work just as well as the Prius, just not as efficiently.

Colonizing Mars is going to be *HARD*. If it happens that the easiest route to growing food is a mixed balance of animal husbandry and growing plants, then so be it. I wouldn't want to handicap ourselves out of the block.


Toss in that those plants will help make the environment a bit friendlier, too.

1 - they'll produce oxygen, so getting something that grows efficiently while scrubbing out lots of CO2 is a very good thing.
2 - the waste gases that the animals produce can either be captured and used for fuel (methane burns) or released into the atmosphere to help with global warming. It won't be much, mind you - but it's a start.
3 - the manure produced is an excellent fertilizer for other plants we can eat
4 - the meat produced is yummy yummy in my tummy
5 - the rest of the animal that's not eaten can be used elsewhere (bones for their soil nutrients, hides for clothing and furniture, the blood makes an excellent fertilizer, etc).
 
2013-01-11 08:50:22 AM  
Someone tell me, WTF is the point of a manned mission to mars? Sounds like a hundred-billion-dollar boondoggle. If you're going to spend that kind of cash, why not a space elevator, or an orbital ring system? It would reduce the cost of going to space 100-fold.
 
2013-01-11 08:51:52 AM  

Lexx: Someone tell me, WTF is the point of a manned mission to mars? Sounds like a hundred-billion-dollar boondoggle. If you're going to spend that kind of cash, why not a space elevator, or an orbital ring system? It would reduce the cost of going to space 100-fold.


Space elevators are incredibly difficult. The best thing to do is offer some sort of prize for the first person to get there, the first group to have a colony going that lasts a year, etc. Many more people will probably die that way, but it'll be cheaper.
 
2013-01-11 08:59:28 AM  
Why not use artificially grown meat instead of a live animal? It seems that it would be much more efficient and you still get delicious meat.
 
2013-01-11 09:02:35 AM  

ronaprhys: Toss in that those plants will help make the environment a bit friendlier, too.

1 - they'll produce oxygen, so getting something that grows efficiently while scrubbing out lots of CO2 is a very good thing.
2 - the waste gases that the animals produce can either be captured and used for fuel (methane burns) or released into the atmosphere to help with global warming. It won't be much, mind you - but it's a start.
3 - the manure produced is an excellent fertilizer for other plants we can eat
4 - the meat produced is yummy yummy in my tummy
5 - the rest of the animal that's not eaten can be used elsewhere (bones for their soil nutrients, hides for clothing and furniture, the blood makes an excellent fertilizer, etc).


Exactly.

We know how reproduce the cycle of animal/plant life. We do it all the time, and in fact we do it on a small scale with things like terrariums. It takes a minimum amount intervention on our part, and it doesn't require brittle high tech solutions in order to work.

Imagine if you did manage to set up a vegan colony on Mars, and then some of the technology you use to process the plant material and fortify it breaks. You're likely farked, unless you've stored away enough food to last you a year.

With a balanced animal/vegetable process, you've got built-in cushion: if things get really desperate, you've got a cushion: You can slaughter all the livestock and freeze all the edible portions. This gives you months and months of short rations available, which would hopefully give you enough cushion.

Plants can't necessarily do that: Many plants can't be eaten until they are ripe, or nearly so (like fruit). If things go tits up, every animal is edible no matter what stage of development it is in. A calf that is halfway to being an adult can still be eaten. A tomato plant or corn stalk that hasn't budded can't be.
 
2013-01-11 09:04:54 AM  

mamoru: Stupid PETA. Mars isn't anywhere near Vega. :-/


You win 17 Internets!
 
2013-01-11 09:05:08 AM  

Lexx: Someone tell me, WTF is the point of a manned mission to mars? Sounds like a hundred-billion-dollar boondoggle. If you're going to spend that kind of cash, why not a space elevator, or an orbital ring system? It would reduce the cost of going to space 100-fold.


Because it's there.

Man has always expanded his boundaries. While you may not be interested in doing so, a significant number of us are. In fact, it's people who always want to go the next step, and reach as far as possible, that advance mankind.

/And there are those of us who live vicariously through them.
 
2013-01-11 09:09:35 AM  

BigBooper: Mars will eventually be where the 1%ers go when the earth is completely trashed. They can be safe there, living in obscene opulence, while the earth descends into chaos when the environment collapses. After things stabilize, they can recolonize the earth. You know, after wiping out or enslaving the survivors.

Do you really think the rich and powerful will stay here when things start to get really bad? We have the technology to colonize Mars now. Now it's just a matter of making that technology cheaper.


Son, if the rich had that kind of foresight, they wouldn't trash this planet to begin with.
 
2013-01-11 09:10:28 AM  

ronaprhys: Lexx: Someone tell me, WTF is the point of a manned mission to mars? Sounds like a hundred-billion-dollar boondoggle. If you're going to spend that kind of cash, why not a space elevator, or an orbital ring system? It would reduce the cost of going to space 100-fold.

Space elevators are incredibly difficult. The best thing to do is offer some sort of prize for the first person to get there, the first group to have a colony going that lasts a year, etc. Many more people will probably die that way, but it'll be cheaper.


Space elevators are hard, but there are other launch platforms that aren't nearly as difficult. partial orbital rings and space fountains for one. Paul Birch (RIP 2012) wrote about the engineering & economics of orbital rings, space elevators, and other methods extensively. His website's gone down since he died and I'm looking for a mirror of his works. In a nutshell, if we really wanted to accelerate space efforts, we'd be making self-replicating robots and send them to the moon, since the engineering challenge of making a lunar orbital ring are very low, and having one, and a factory on the moon, makes it rather convenient to start building one for the earth.
 
2013-01-11 09:11:25 AM  

dittybopper: Exactly.

We know how reproduce the cycle of animal/plant life. We do it all the time, and in fact we do it on a small scale with things like terrariums. It takes a minimum amount intervention on our part, and it doesn't require brittle high tech solutions in order to work.

Imagine if you did manage to set up a vegan colony on Mars, and then some of the technology you use to process the plant material and fortify it breaks. You're likely farked, unless you've stored away enough food to last you a year.

With a balanced animal/vegetable process, you've got built-in cushion: if things get really desperate, you've got a cushion: You can slaughter all the livestock and freeze all the edible portions. This gives you months and months of short rations available, which would hopefully give you enough cushion.

Plants can't necessarily do that: Many plants can't be eaten until they are ripe, or nearly so (like fruit). If things go tits up, every animal is edible no matter what stage of development it is in. A calf that is halfway to being an adult can still be eaten. A tomato plant or corn stalk that hasn't budded can't be.


Even better is that it gives you variety. Variety is critical to keeping folks happy in the long term. Morale cannot be overlooked. IIRC, our astronauts actually had a mini-strike at one point on some of the longer missions as NASA wanted them working non-stop. Now they get breaks to just chill for a bit. It'd be no different on a colony. Yes, folks would be working incredibly hard just to get things up and going, but they'll still need variety of all sorts. Time down to just relax, different foods so they've got something to look at, spices and other seasonings to make stuff taste good, etc.

From there, if we manage to develop some sort of scrub plant that can actually grow a bit outside of the habitats, it makes sense to release that to help the make-up of the atmosphere. Plants will always be more efficient at producing necessary gases and nutrients. On top of that, natural mutation may allow them to survive where our equipment breaks down. Evolution, biatches. Sure, it'll have some unintended consequences, but life is full of that.
 
2013-01-11 09:19:09 AM  

dittybopper: Lexx: Someone tell me, WTF is the point of a manned mission to mars? Sounds like a hundred-billion-dollar boondoggle. If you're going to spend that kind of cash, why not a space elevator, or an orbital ring system? It would reduce the cost of going to space 100-fold.

Because it's there.

Man has always expanded his boundaries. While you may not be interested in doing so, a significant number of us are. In fact, it's people who always want to go the next step, and reach as far as possible, that advance mankind.

/And there are those of us who live vicariously through them.


It's not that, I'm all about the explorer spirit. I just can't sign off on suicide missions - they're not planning a return trip for the astronauts.
 
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