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(CBS News)   If the flu doesn't kill you, the Tylenol you took to treat it might. Regardless, EVERYBODY PANIC   (cbsnews.com) divider line 151
    More: PSA, Tylenol, liver damage, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, sore throats, over-the-counter drugs, myalgias, flu, liver transplantation  
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12483 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jan 2013 at 6:53 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



151 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-01-10 05:22:48 PM
FTFA: The flu is affecting more people than anticipated this season, and many sufferers are scouting drugstore isles in search of remedies to help combat the illness.

Drugstore isles?  Isles?  Really, CBS?
 
2013-01-10 05:42:12 PM
Infant tylenol was what you did for fevery babies when my oldest was born. Now it's NEVER GIVE TO BABIES! BAD!

Scary, that stuff.
 
2013-01-10 05:42:41 PM

eraser8: FTFA: The flu is affecting more people than anticipated this season, and many sufferers are scouting drugstore isles in search of remedies to help combat the illness.

Drugstore isles?  Isles?  Really, CBS?


Makes it tougher for meth heads to get Sudafed if they have to swim to get it.
 
2013-01-10 05:58:31 PM
This is not a repeat from 1982.
 
2013-01-10 06:01:58 PM
Two weeks of flu symptoms and counting. ugh.
 
2013-01-10 06:20:11 PM

namegoeshere: Infant tylenol was what you did for fevery babies when my oldest was born. Now it's NEVER GIVE TO BABIES! BAD!

Scary, that stuff.


Until it's okay again, like drinking while pregnant.
 
2013-01-10 06:36:56 PM
[old_news_is_so_exciting.jpg]
 
2013-01-10 06:50:40 PM

namegoeshere: Infant tylenol was what you did for fevery babies when my oldest was born. Now it's NEVER GIVE TO BABIES! BAD!

Scary, that stuff.


Yeah, that's because idiot parents can't be trusted to READ A FARKING LABEL! Hell I'm sure someone figured out a way to just hook a nipple to the bottle and let the kids drink away the pain, until they actually did.
 
2013-01-10 06:55:07 PM
Yeah, this comes up all the time, it is basically just the "just about all cold medicines have tylenol in it, so, if you take a bunch of stuff and don't realize that, you'll OD".
 
2013-01-10 06:56:17 PM

dletter: Yeah, this comes up all the time, it is basically just the "just about all cold medicines have tylenol in it, so, if you take a bunch of stuff and don't realize that, you'll OD".


Which sucks for me, because I am allergic to acetaminophen. Hooray.
 
2013-01-10 06:57:33 PM
Former co-worker went to a bowl game in FL years ago. Died in his sleep at the hotel. Cause: Alcohol and Tylenol.
 
2013-01-10 06:57:42 PM
No worries about the flu, I was vaccinated in November.

The autism is kind of a drag, though.
 
2013-01-10 06:58:43 PM
everything i need to know in life i learned from erowid + lycaeum ?

thank goodness i'm a mormon, now.
 
2013-01-10 06:59:26 PM

blatz514: Makes it tougher for meth heads to get Sudafed if they have to swim to get it.


i lol'ed.
 
2013-01-10 07:00:44 PM
would be so much safer if they just replaced it with Oxycodone
 
2013-01-10 07:01:23 PM
This isn't regular media over-reaction. Too much Tylenol really will hurt you.
 
2013-01-10 07:04:15 PM
Watch out for rye syndrome.

thumbs.ifood.tv

You get crumbs in your bed.
 
2013-01-10 07:04:21 PM
Pfft.. I just drink Jameson till I feel better.

/'scuse me, feeling a touch under the weather
 
2013-01-10 07:05:49 PM
FTA: "Make sure that they aren't taking two different ones at the same time," Gardenier said. "If your child is small, you can't give a small child an adult dose. Always check with your pediatric provider." [...]
First, always read and follow the label. Taking more than the recommended dose or using a different measuring system -- for example, a spoon instead of the provided measuring cup -- can be dangerous.


Translation: Hurr durr derp dee durr. I'ma gonna measure my medicine by the bucketfull and give it to my newborn. durrrrrrr.
 
2013-01-10 07:06:05 PM
Here's the deal people. The therapeutic index (TI) of Tylenol is about 4. What this means is that the dose needed to produce a toxic effect (for Tylenol, it's the liver) is only 4 times greater than the dose needed for medicinal effects. That ratio is absolutely horrible. Normally, we want something that has a TI of 100 or more. The larger the TI, the better.

Oh, and if you are ever thinking of committing suicide via Tylenol, don't. Liver failure is a very painful way to die, and it takes days. Also, if you're an alcoholic, I strongly recommend that you avoid Tylenol or any other product that has acetaminophen (aka paracetamol) in it.

/Toxicologist
 
2013-01-10 07:06:33 PM
Talk about a bitter pill to swallow.
 
2013-01-10 07:07:40 PM

From the article:

"Make sure that they aren't taking two different ones at the same time," Gardenier said. "If your child is small, you can't give a small child an adult dose. Always check with your pediatric provider."
 
2013-01-10 07:09:10 PM
My body decided to go hipster and get me Bronchitis instead of the Flu everyone else is getting.
 
2013-01-10 07:09:36 PM
Tylenol will do more damage to your liver then drink a truck load of PBR or Bud Lite.
 
2013-01-10 07:12:43 PM
Yeah, I stopped buying Tylenol years ago because it's in everything. Aspirin is pretty good for most things plus it has several beneficial side effects, and ibuprofen is a better pain killer.
 
2013-01-10 07:13:14 PM
A friend of mine sells a tylenol alternative:  shameless plug

;)
 
2013-01-10 07:13:15 PM

lousyskater: My body decided to go hipster and get me Bronchitis instead of the Flu everyone else is getting.


I lol'ed.
 
2013-01-10 07:14:33 PM
In large enough amounts, one can overdose on water; I guess we should all stop drinking the stuff. Durrrr.
 
2013-01-10 07:15:01 PM

Qwertyette: FTA: "Make sure that they aren't taking two different ones at the same time," Gardenier said. "If your child is small, you can't give a small child an adult dose. Always check with your pediatric provider." [...]
First, always read and follow the label. Taking more than the recommended dose or using a different measuring system -- for example, a spoon instead of the provided measuring cup -- can be dangerous.


Translation: Hurr durr derp dee durr. I'ma gonna measure my medicine by the bucketfull and give it to my newborn. durrrrrrr.


You mock, but there are a lot of people out there who don't give asprin the respect it deserves just because you can buy it over the counter. I've heard more than one person say something to the effect of "If it could hurt me why can I buy it at the grocery store?"

I heard a doctor once say that if asprin were discovered today it would definitely be a controlled substance you needed a prescription for... but because it's been around for so long it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle.
 
2013-01-10 07:15:56 PM

3rdtimearound: would be so much safer if they just replaced it with Oxycodone


Your oxycodone probably has 300 to 500 mg of Tylenol in it already.
 
2013-01-10 07:16:16 PM

moefuggenbrew: A friend of mine sells a tylenol alternative:  shameless plug

;)


Apply directly to bank account!
 
2013-01-10 07:17:11 PM

eraser8: FTFA: The flu is affecting more people than anticipated this season, and many sufferers are scouting drugstore isles in search of remedies to help combat the illness.

Drugstore isles?  Isles?  Really, CBS?


Ahoy, mateys! We sail at high tide for CVS Cove. Yarrrr.
 
2013-01-10 07:18:02 PM

lousyskater: My body decided to go hipster and get me Bronchitis instead of the Flu everyone else is getting.


On the basis that a pork pie hat can hold a surprising amount of lung butter?
 
2013-01-10 07:19:05 PM

LordOfThePings: Watch out for rye syndrome.

[thumbs.ifood.tv image 250x220]

You get crumbs in your bed.


I want to bite that bread.
 
2013-01-10 07:20:34 PM
Every year it's the same old deal. Killer flu season. Killer West Nile Virus. Killer Hantavirus. Killer Norovirus. Killer Tylenol. Killer BEES ARE COMING TO THE UNITED STATES! Killer bees is my favorite scare tactic. I love reminding people that there can't be anyone left south of the border what with all those killer bees flying around down there.
 
2013-01-10 07:22:21 PM
Acetaminophen: The high fructose corn syrup of the pharmaceutical world.

mmm... liver damage.
 
2013-01-10 07:22:58 PM

moefuggenbrew: A friend of mine sells a tylenol alternative:  shameless plug

;)


It amazes me that in order to avoid the potential side effects of drugs like aspirin, tylenol, etc, people will turn to homeopathic, herbal or other products that have even less regulation and quality control. My stepmother won't eat fish for fear of mercury poisoning or eat GM foods for fear of becoming a zombie?, but she takes about 50 different herbal supplements with no FDA trials, no regulation for quality and no proof of any efficacy. Sorry, but your sketchy looking aspirin-juice does not look like something I want to rub all over.
 
2013-01-10 07:25:54 PM
I still can't believe that some people (especially those who drink) don't know how bad acetaminophen is for you.

And it is in almost everything. I think that it's not in the alka seltzer tabs, but other than that, I'm not sure what OTC cold medicine doesn't have it.

I drink way too much to take that shiat.
 
2013-01-10 07:26:02 PM
Do people really still use Tylenol? It does nothing for me.
 
2013-01-10 07:28:09 PM

utah dude: everything i need to know in life i learned from erowid + lycaeum ?

thank goodness i'm a mormon, now.


This just made my night.
 
2013-01-10 07:28:14 PM

Mr. Eugenides: 3rdtimearound: would be so much safer if they just replaced it with Oxycodone

Your oxycodone probably has 300 to 500 mg of Tylenol in it already.


Nah, you're thinking of Percocet
 
2013-01-10 07:28:54 PM

mgshamster: Here's the deal people. The therapeutic index (TI) of Tylenol is about 4. What this means is that the dose needed to produce a toxic effect (for Tylenol, it's the liver) is only 4 times greater than the dose needed for medicinal effects. That ratio is absolutely horrible. Normally, we want something that has a TI of 100 or more. The larger the TI, the better.

Oh, and if you are ever thinking of committing suicide via Tylenol, don't. Liver failure is a very painful way to die, and it takes days. Also, if you're an alcoholic, I strongly recommend that you avoid Tylenol or any other product that has acetaminophen (aka paracetamol) in it.

/Toxicologist


This really can't be stressed enough.

This shiat is the cause of more liver failures than anything. That includes alcohol and tylenol + alcohol incidents. And let's not forget how harsh it is on the kidneys too.

If you like to drink alcohol AT ALL (forget whether you are or are not an alcoholic) if you have more than 3 alcoholic beverages per week I would swear off of the stuff entirely. Along with any NSAIDs.

If it is so dangerous, why is it on the shelf and consumed in the quantities that it is?
Why do large banks seem to be immune to prosecutions?
 
2013-01-10 07:29:41 PM
I never take anything when I get sick. Almost anything you take is not good for you and just masks whatever problems you have, they certainly won't cure you.

With that said, I almost never get sick so maybe I'm biased towards toughing it out because it's not that big a deal. I have I have had one or two minor colds in the last 10 years.
 
2013-01-10 07:30:53 PM

lousyskater: My body decided to go hipster and get me Bronchitis instead of the Flu everyone else is getting.


I had bronchitis before it was mainstream.


/cough
//cough cough
//cough cough cough cough
///seriously, please make it go away.
 
2013-01-10 07:33:07 PM
It is super annoying to weed out the cold pills / syrups that don't have acetaminophen in them. Stuff must be cheap to manufacture or something, I can't figure out why almost every brand has it. Even more annoying that I can't buy pseudoephedrine OTC anymore.
 
2013-01-10 07:33:26 PM

MurphyMurphy: If it [Tylenol] is so dangerous, why is it on the shelf and consumed in the quantities that it is?


It was grandfathered in. When the FDA first started requiring safety testing on all drugs, any drugs that were currently on the market were considered safe by default. The logic was, "If they've been on the shelf this long and people aren't dying from them or suing companies for ill effects, they must be safe."

I doubt it would pass FDA regulations if it were a new drug brought to the market today.
 
Ral
2013-01-10 07:36:26 PM
I was on the jury of a court case that involved a situation of excessive acetaminophen intake. Yes, it will destroy your liver, but you have to take way more than the dose on the label and you have to do it for several weeks. If you stick to the dose instructions on the label, you'll be fine.
 
2013-01-10 07:37:16 PM
Trash article as are most pharmacology on newspaper websites.

Also, the current recommendation in the US is less than 3000 milligrams per day

Basic you should knows:

-not for children under 2
-talk to your doctor if you have liver or kidney issues. (actually get that physical with blood work now and then)
-not for alcohol drinkers
-read ingredients and precuations on your drugs. hydrocodone (Vicodin) contains acetaminophen and sometimes up to 750mg a pill. Do not take additional Tylenol if already taking hydrocodone unless told otherwise
-if any concerns at all talk to a pharmacist (yes, you can ask questions of a pharmacist about over the counter drugs at your drug store!), your doctor, or at least a real nurse (medical assistants do not count as they have nearly zero pharmacology education)
 
2013-01-10 07:40:57 PM
Please please please just get your whole family vaccinated? Just make it less likely?

/kthxbye
 
2013-01-10 07:41:56 PM

moefuggenbrew: A friend of mine sells a tylenol alternative:  shameless plug

;)


Ten to one it's just mineral oil with menthol in it. I notice that there's no ingredients list anywhere on that website or on the bottle, which is illegal. In addition to there's the classic "Quack Miranda Warning." Your friend is a scam artist and a lying sack of shiat. I hate people that prey on people using ignorance and lies.
 
2013-01-10 07:42:09 PM

mscleo: I still can't believe that some people (especially those who drink) don't know how bad acetaminophen is for you.


I stopped taking that stuff a long time ago. It never seemed to do anything for me. I need my liver for the booze.


dk47: It is super annoying to weed out the cold pills / syrups that don't have acetaminophen in them. Stuff must be cheap to manufacture or something, I can't figure out why almost every brand has it. Even more annoying that I can't buy pseudoephedrine OTC anymore.


This probably isn't the reason here in the US, but I bought some painkillers that contained hydrocodone in Canada once and it had acetaminophen and caffeine added. The logic was it made it harder to distill out the hydrocodone.
 
2013-01-10 07:42:21 PM
I had the flu at the end of the last semester, which screwed my grades. Anyway, I had it so bad that the only way I was able to actually get out of bed was by taking the hydrocodone I had from the dentist two weeks or so before I got the flu. It made life livable in regular (non-recreational) doses. I went from taking 10 minutes to walk from my bed to the bathroom (aka the next room) to being able to cook myself a meal and sit up for more than thirty seconds at a time. Pity people still try to stuff themselves full of 30 different chemicals just to feel slightly better.
 
2013-01-10 07:44:01 PM

mgshamster: Here's the deal people. The therapeutic index (TI) of Tylenol is about 4. What this means is that the dose needed to produce a toxic effect (for Tylenol, it's the liver) is only 4 times greater than the dose needed for medicinal effects. That ratio is absolutely horrible. Normally, we want something that has a TI of 100 or more. The larger the TI, the better.

Oh, and if you are ever thinking of committing suicide via Tylenol, don't. Liver failure is a very painful way to die, and it takes days. Also, if you're an alcoholic, I strongly recommend that you avoid Tylenol or any other product that has acetaminophen (aka paracetamol) in it.

/Toxicologist


Basically everybody on Fark needs to stop taking acetaminophen, it's really nasty shait.

These warning about acetaminophen aren't your average everyday media fear mongering, it's a real problem. Acetaminophen is the leading cause of acute liver failure, beats the pants off of alcohol, though chronic liver problems alcohol is the number 1.
 
2013-01-10 07:44:10 PM

MurphyMurphy: mgshamster: Here's the deal people. The therapeutic index (TI) of Tylenol is about 4. What this means is that the dose needed to produce a toxic effect (for Tylenol, it's the liver) is only 4 times greater than the dose needed for medicinal effects. That ratio is absolutely horrible. Normally, we want something that has a TI of 100 or more. The larger the TI, the better.

Oh, and if you are ever thinking of committing suicide via Tylenol, don't. Liver failure is a very painful way to die, and it takes days. Also, if you're an alcoholic, I strongly recommend that you avoid Tylenol or any other product that has acetaminophen (aka paracetamol) in it.

/Toxicologist

This really can't be stressed enough.

This shiat is the cause of more liver failures than anything. That includes alcohol and tylenol + alcohol incidents. And let's not forget how harsh it is on the kidneys too.

If you like to drink alcohol AT ALL (forget whether you are or are not an alcoholic) if you have more than 3 alcoholic beverages per week I would swear off of the stuff entirely. Along with any NSAIDs.

If it is so dangerous, why is it on the shelf and consumed in the quantities that it is?
Why do large banks seem to be immune to prosecutions?



I agree that if you enjoy alcohol of any amount, you should avoid tylenol. Some people's livers are more sensitive to tylenol's effects than others, and they can be damaged by even very small amounts of tylenol + alcohol.

As for NSAID's, I prefer naproxen (aka Aleve). It's the least harmful to the GI tract and heart as far as I know. That said, they should always be used sparingly and not daily if it can be avoided.
 
2013-01-10 07:50:03 PM

TheDirtyNacho: MurphyMurphy: mgshamster: Here's the deal people. The therapeutic index (TI) of Tylenol is about 4. What this means is that the dose needed to produce a toxic effect (for Tylenol, it's the liver) is only 4 times greater than the dose needed for medicinal effects. That ratio is absolutely horrible. Normally, we want something that has a TI of 100 or more. The larger the TI, the better.

Oh, and if you are ever thinking of committing suicide via Tylenol, don't. Liver failure is a very painful way to die, and it takes days. Also, if you're an alcoholic, I strongly recommend that you avoid Tylenol or any other product that has acetaminophen (aka paracetamol) in it.

/Toxicologist

This really can't be stressed enough.

This shiat is the cause of more liver failures than anything. That includes alcohol and tylenol + alcohol incidents. And let's not forget how harsh it is on the kidneys too.

If you like to drink alcohol AT ALL (forget whether you are or are not an alcoholic) if you have more than 3 alcoholic beverages per week I would swear off of the stuff entirely. Along with any NSAIDs.

If it is so dangerous, why is it on the shelf and consumed in the quantities that it is?
Why do large banks seem to be immune to prosecutions?


I agree that if you enjoy alcohol of any amount, you should avoid tylenol. Some people's livers are more sensitive to tylenol's effects than others, and they can be damaged by even very small amounts of tylenol + alcohol.

As for NSAID's, I prefer naproxen (aka Aleve). It's the least harmful to the GI tract and heart as far as I know. That said, they should always be used sparingly and not daily if it can be avoided.


I use naproxen or ibuprofen. My wife prefers the latter. Interestingly enough, both those have been shown to have teratogenic effects, while acetaminophen has not - at least for pregnancy, I'm not sure about other developmental periods.
 
2013-01-10 07:51:37 PM
I concur!
www.thealmightyguru.com
 
2013-01-10 07:52:40 PM

dennysgod: mgshamster: Here's the deal people. The therapeutic index (TI) of Tylenol is about 4. What this means is that the dose needed to produce a toxic effect (for Tylenol, it's the liver) is only 4 times greater than the dose needed for medicinal effects. That ratio is absolutely horrible. Normally, we want something that has a TI of 100 or more. The larger the TI, the better.

Oh, and if you are ever thinking of committing suicide via Tylenol, don't. Liver failure is a very painful way to die, and it takes days. Also, if you're an alcoholic, I strongly recommend that you avoid Tylenol or any other product that has acetaminophen (aka paracetamol) in it.

/Toxicologist

Basically everybody on Fark needs to stop taking acetaminophen, it's really nasty shait.

These warning about acetaminophen aren't your average everyday media fear mongering, it's a real problem. Acetaminophen is the leading cause of acute liver failure, beats the pants off of alcohol, though chronic liver problems alcohol is the number 1.


There's a reason that the amount of APAP in hydrocodone/APAP (and potentially oxycodone) combos is being reduced to 325mg max. Folks will be taking that, then take acetaminophen for a headache (or as part of a cold medicine) and happily destroy their liver.

Good times - but that higher strengths will be off the market after 12/31/13, IIRC.
 
2013-01-10 07:52:51 PM

moefuggenbrew: A friend of mine sells a tylenol alternative:  shameless plug

;)


From the description -- it is rapidly absorbed through the skin and can carry other compounds with it -- this is almost certainly DMSO witn something like aspirin or Tylenol in it. Similar idea to Ben- Gay, which basically just absorbs aspirin into the skin.

Aside from a galicky taste in the mouth, another side effect is that it can dissolve contaminants, carcinogens, etc. that are on the skin and allow you to absorb in into the bloodstream. It was once touted as a cure-all, but now is used in very specifc clinical and lab settings. (Great solvent in the lab.)

You should feel bad, and your friend is a bad person.
 
2013-01-10 07:53:24 PM

TheDirtyNacho: MurphyMurphy: mgshamster: Here's the deal people. The therapeutic index (TI) of Tylenol is about 4. What this means is that the dose needed to produce a toxic effect (for Tylenol, it's the liver) is only 4 times greater than the dose needed for medicinal effects. That ratio is absolutely horrible. Normally, we want something that has a TI of 100 or more. The larger the TI, the better.

Oh, and if you are ever thinking of committing suicide via Tylenol, don't. Liver failure is a very painful way to die, and it takes days. Also, if you're an alcoholic, I strongly recommend that you avoid Tylenol or any other product that has acetaminophen (aka paracetamol) in it.

/Toxicologist

This really can't be stressed enough.

This shiat is the cause of more liver failures than anything. That includes alcohol and tylenol + alcohol incidents. And let's not forget how harsh it is on the kidneys too.

If you like to drink alcohol AT ALL (forget whether you are or are not an alcoholic) if you have more than 3 alcoholic beverages per week I would swear off of the stuff entirely. Along with any NSAIDs.

If it is so dangerous, why is it on the shelf and consumed in the quantities that it is?
Why do large banks seem to be immune to prosecutions?


I agree that if you enjoy alcohol of any amount, you should avoid tylenol. Some people's livers are more sensitive to tylenol's effects than others, and they can be damaged by even very small amounts of tylenol + alcohol.

As for NSAID's, I prefer naproxen (aka Aleve). It's the least harmful to the GI tract and heart as far as I know. That said, they should always be used sparingly and not daily if it can be avoided.


I'm on a daily dose of meloxicam, and it's reduced my alcohol consumption to 1 or 2 drinks a week. Any much more than that makes it feel like my stomach is on fire. I tried taking some ibuprofen for a minor knee sprain not long after I started on the meloxicam, and that was even worse. Haven't had any OTC NSAIDs since.

I'm well aware that it's burning a hole in my stomach, but I figure that by the time it does, I'll either be on something far more toxic, or my spine will have fused together, so I just try not to think about it too much.
 
2013-01-10 07:53:35 PM

MurphyMurphy: If you like to drink alcohol AT ALL (forget whether you are or are not an alcoholic) if you have more than 3 alcoholic beverages per week I would swear off of the stuff entirely. Along with any NSAIDs.


I think you're being a bit hyperbolic suggesting that people swear off all NSAIDs. Let's not forget that millions of people use these drugs daily and safely with no adverse effects. Also, there are some cases (e.g. extreme fever) where taking fever reducing medication is well worth the risk of side effects.
 
2013-01-10 07:54:50 PM
If you have the strength to go on tv and be interviewed, you don't have the farking flu.
 
2013-01-10 07:55:12 PM
If you have pain pills with acetaminophen, crush them between two like teaspoons, then stir the resultant powder in ice water, then decant and drink the liquid.
 
2013-01-10 07:55:17 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: eraser8: FTFA: The flu is affecting more people than anticipated this season, and many sufferers are scouting drugstore isles in search of remedies to help combat the illness.

Drugstore isles?  Isles?  Really, CBS?

Ahoy, mateys! We sail at high tide for CVS Cove. Yarrrr.


This made me laugh way harder than it should have. I blame the meds I'm on for bronchitis. They've made me so jazzed up and loopy that I can barely stand myself.

A Tylenol OD is a shiatty way to go. Mostly it doesn't kill you, but it farks your liver up. And the treatment to attempt to halt the of process is harsh. You can technically OD by taking more than #6 500mg tablets in 24 hours.

And on that note:

Reporter: What kind of plane is it?
Johnny: Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big Tylenol.
 
2013-01-10 08:00:45 PM

911Jenny: lousyskater: My body decided to go hipster and get me Bronchitis instead of the Flu everyone else is getting.

I had bronchitis before it was mainstream.


/cough
//cough cough
//cough cough cough cough
///seriously, please make it go away.


Same. Spouse and I are totally farked up with some sort of cold. But it's definitely a cold, not the flu. I guess that's better, though I still wish I could breathe.
 
2013-01-10 08:06:34 PM
Benadryl makes me flip out in the middle of the night sometimes.
 
2013-01-10 08:07:14 PM

lake_huron: moefuggenbrew: A friend of mine sells a tylenol alternative:  shameless plug

;)

From the description -- it is rapidly absorbed through the skin and can carry other compounds with it -- this is almost certainly DMSO witn something like aspirin or Tylenol in it. Similar idea to Ben- Gay, which basically just absorbs aspirin into the skin.

Aside from a galicky taste in the mouth, another side effect is that it can dissolve contaminants, carcinogens, etc. that are on the skin and allow you to absorb in into the bloodstream. It was once touted as a cure-all, but now is used in very specifc clinical and lab settings. (Great solvent in the lab.)

You should feel bad, and your friend is a bad person.


It's not necessarily DMSO. Although if it does have a garlic-like taste after the application, then yes, you're right. However, any lipophilic solvent will have the same effect.
 
2013-01-10 08:08:36 PM
widespreadpanic.s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-01-10 08:09:02 PM
In college I drank a bottle of cold medicine just for the DXM trip. Later learned I should have bought the kind only for cough, not the one with benadryl and acetominophen in it too. My liver feels a little heavy, but otherwise it's fine.
 
2013-01-10 08:11:20 PM

kidakita: Every year it's the same old deal. Killer flu season. Killer West Nile Virus. Killer Hantavirus. Killer Norovirus. Killer Tylenol. Killer BEES ARE COMING TO THE UNITED STATES! Killer bees is my favorite scare tactic. I love reminding people that there can't be anyone left south of the border what with all those killer bees flying around down there.


Guess you don't know anyone who has died from a bee attack!

/dumbass
 
2013-01-10 08:12:33 PM

3rdtimearound: would be so much safer if they just replaced it with Oxycodone


Except that wouldn't fix a dangerously high fever, which is the main reason to give someone Tylenol in the first place in my opinion.

I've quit taking Tylenol and switched to Naproxen (Aleve) since I get better results. But I only take it for headaches, as directed, without alcohol, after water and a snack don't work.

I have never been extremely sick, but I don't take cold/cough/whatever medicine. I don't eat for a few days, I drink water/honey/lemon or gatorade if its a GI thing, I take a hot shower to decongest. If I had a kid and they got the flu I would go for Tamiflu though and I would be much more worried about them getting much sicker than I would.

Now during allergy season, I will take Benadryl and generic Allegra every day so I can't talk about not being dependent on drugs.
 
2013-01-10 08:24:14 PM
The therapeutic dose and the lethal dose for acetaminophen are closer than many drugs. Plus, in my case at least, it doesn't seem to kill pain much at all. Aspirin and ibuprofen work better for me.
 
2013-01-10 08:26:22 PM

mgshamster: Here's the deal people. The therapeutic index (TI) of Tylenol is about 4. What this means is that the dose needed to produce a toxic effect (for Tylenol, it's the liver) is only 4 times greater than the dose needed for medicinal effects. That ratio is absolutely horrible. Normally, we want something that has a TI of 100 or more. The larger the TI, the better.

Oh, and if you are ever thinking of committing suicide via Tylenol, don't. Liver failure is a very painful way to die, and it takes days. Also, if you're an alcoholic, I strongly recommend that you avoid Tylenol or any other product that has acetaminophen (aka paracetamol) in it.

/Toxicologist


You said it better than I did, and you said it first. I blame it on the alcohol I'm consuming. :)
 
2013-01-10 08:26:38 PM

assjuice: In college I drank a bottle of cold medicine just for the DXM trip. Later learned I should have bought the kind only for cough, not the one with benadryl and acetominophen in it too. My liver feels a little heavy, but otherwise it's fine.


and in high school i abused hydrocodone
hey everyone's done stupid stuff
 
2013-01-10 08:28:51 PM

Snarfangel: The therapeutic dose and the lethal dose for acetaminophen are closer than many drugs. Plus, in my case at least, it doesn't seem to kill pain much at all. Aspirin and ibuprofen work better for me.


I know what you mean.  Acetaminophen doesn't work at all for me.  Ibuprofen works great...but, I've been forbidden to use it.

So, I'm kinda f*cked.
 
2013-01-10 08:29:23 PM

insano: MurphyMurphy: If you like to drink alcohol AT ALL (forget whether you are or are not an alcoholic) if you have more than 3 alcoholic beverages per week I would swear off of the stuff entirely. Along with any NSAIDs.

I think you're being a bit hyperbolic suggesting that people swear off all NSAIDs. Let's not forget that millions of people use these drugs daily and safely with no adverse effects. Also, there are some cases (e.g. extreme fever) where taking fever reducing medication is well worth the risk of side effects.


Sure, that's a fair statement. In fact, even though I avoid these products like the plague because of my own past issues I will use fever reducer in the rare event I get a nasty bug that puts me over 99F.

But I should say that before I ever had any problems with NSAIDs, I used them for years with no adverse effects. Many things work ok until they don't anymore.

People should certainly be much more aware of what these products do (can do)... I grew up learning they were as innocuous as drinking a glass of water, which was dangerously incorrect.
 
2013-01-10 08:29:25 PM
They totally missed this years bug. Everyone I know but me got a flu shot and they all have gotten sick. I'm staying inside, barricaded with guns and beans.

Come at me bro.
 
2013-01-10 08:29:49 PM

mgshamster: Here's the deal people. The therapeutic index (TI) of Tylenol is about 4. What this means is that the dose needed to produce a toxic effect (for Tylenol, it's the liver) is only 4 times greater than the dose needed for medicinal effects. That ratio is absolutely horrible. Normally, we want something that has a TI of 100 or more. The larger the TI, the better.

Oh, and if you are ever thinking of committing suicide via Tylenol, don't. Liver failure is a very painful way to die, and it takes days. Also, if you're an alcoholic, I strongly recommend that you avoid Tylenol or any other product that has acetaminophen (aka paracetamol) in it.

/Toxicologist


Let's say I drink too much. Nyquil okay?
 
2013-01-10 08:30:17 PM
Tylenol is poison...I always go ibuprofen.
 
2013-01-10 08:31:31 PM

The Irresponsible Captain: Yeah, I stopped buying Tylenol years ago because it's in everything. Aspirin is pretty good for most things plus it has several beneficial side effects, and ibuprofen is a better pain killer.


This.

I buy the cold and flu meds without Tylenol, then just take Advil as needed. It works better and I really want the decongestant more often than the pain/fever reducer anyways.
 
2013-01-10 08:33:09 PM

findthefish: Tylenol is poison...I always go ibuprofen.


i go to aspirin
cause it tastes like ass
parin
 
2013-01-10 08:34:00 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: They totally missed this years bug. Everyone I know but me got a flu shot and they all have gotten sick. I'm staying inside, barricaded with guns and beans.


I've had a flu shot...and, I haven't gotten sick.

But, I like beans and guns.  So, can I hang out with you?

We can deal with the gas on a fart by fart basis.
 
2013-01-10 08:37:51 PM

alcoda: mgshamster: Here's the deal people. The therapeutic index (TI) of Tylenol is about 4. What this means is that the dose needed to produce a toxic effect (for Tylenol, it's the liver) is only 4 times greater than the dose needed for medicinal effects. That ratio is absolutely horrible. Normally, we want something that has a TI of 100 or more. The larger the TI, the better.

Oh, and if you are ever thinking of committing suicide via Tylenol, don't. Liver failure is a very painful way to die, and it takes days. Also, if you're an alcoholic, I strongly recommend that you avoid Tylenol or any other product that has acetaminophen (aka paracetamol) in it.

/Toxicologist

Let's say I drink too much. Nyquil okay?


Without looking at the ingredients list, I can tell you right away that it's something you should avoid. Both alcohol and NyQuil are depressants, which make you pass out and can slow your repertory system down. It can be a dangerous combination.

Looking at the ingredients list, it has acetomeniphen in it, so I would generally recommend not to combine it with alcohol.

What are you using it for? If you need a cough suppressant, just take a generic drug that has dextromethorphan in it, and you should be fine.

/Off to dinner with Mrs. Hamster
 
2013-01-10 08:38:34 PM

findthefish: Tylenol is poison...I always go ibuprofen.


Technically, everything is a poison in the right dose.
 
2013-01-10 08:40:25 PM

mgshamster: alcoda: mgshamster: Here's the deal people. The therapeutic index (TI) of Tylenol is about 4. What this means is that the dose needed to produce a toxic effect (for Tylenol, it's the liver) is only 4 times greater than the dose needed for medicinal effects. That ratio is absolutely horrible. Normally, we want something that has a TI of 100 or more. The larger the TI, the better.

Oh, and if you are ever thinking of committing suicide via Tylenol, don't. Liver failure is a very painful way to die, and it takes days. Also, if you're an alcoholic, I strongly recommend that you avoid Tylenol or any other product that has acetaminophen (aka paracetamol) in it.

/Toxicologist

Let's say I drink too much. Nyquil okay?

Without looking at the ingredients list, I can tell you right away that it's something you should avoid. Both alcohol and NyQuil are depressants, which make you pass out and can slow your repertory system down. It can be a dangerous combination.

Looking at the ingredients list, it has acetomeniphen in it, so I would generally recommend not to combine it with alcohol.

What are you using it for? If you need a cough suppressant, just take a generic drug that has dextromethorphan in it, and you should be fine.

/Off to dinner with Mrs. Hamster


thank you for the education
 
2013-01-10 08:45:29 PM
I wish you could sue people for coming into work/office sick. If that irresponsible annoying b*tch gets me sick and screws my grades and blows my 4.0, I'm going to be super pissed. I'm pounding airborne, fluids and healthy food with naps and fresh air. I hardly ever get sick and when I start feeling bad I immediately try to sleep it off which works most of the time.

/runny nose, slight cough and slight fever
//yes I took Nyquil to try to sleep it off.
///Hopefully my liver will be alright. Directions say warn against 3 alcoholic drinks PER DAY while taking it. I dont think Ive ever had more than 2 in one sitting ever.
////lightweight

healthy thoughts to everyone.
 
2013-01-10 09:03:11 PM
It boggles my mind that there are adults living and breathing amongst us, who are basically able to function in society, but adamantly refuse to figure this out on their own.

The "flu" that's got them down is most likely from overdosing on three different brands of cold medicine they took simultaneously, most of which have active ingredients that don't treat their actual symptoms.
 
2013-01-10 09:03:53 PM
At my previous job, the guy in the next cubicle swallowed oil of oregano as a cure for colds/flu. He smelled like Italian pizza for weeks at a time and didn't seem to get over those viruses any quicker...
 
2013-01-10 09:03:54 PM

alcoda: mgshamster: alcoda: mgshamster: Here's the deal people. The therapeutic index (TI) of Tylenol is about 4. What this means is that the dose needed to produce a toxic effect (for Tylenol, it's the liver) is only 4 times greater than the dose needed for medicinal effects. That ratio is absolutely horrible. Normally, we want something that has a TI of 100 or more. The larger the TI, the better.

Oh, and if you are ever thinking of committing suicide via Tylenol, don't. Liver failure is a very painful way to die, and it takes days. Also, if you're an alcoholic, I strongly recommend that you avoid Tylenol or any other product that has acetaminophen (aka paracetamol) in it.

/Toxicologist

Let's say I drink too much. Nyquil okay?

Without looking at the ingredients list, I can tell you right away that it's something you should avoid. Both alcohol and NyQuil are depressants, which make you pass out and can slow your repertory system down. It can be a dangerous combination.

Looking at the ingredients list, it has acetomeniphen in it, so I would generally recommend not to combine it with alcohol.

What are you using it for? If you need a cough suppressant, just take a generic drug that has dextromethorphan in it, and you should be fine.

/Off to dinner with Mrs. Hamster

thank you for the education


I'm waiting for my table, and I have a smartphone, so I can make a comment for now. Basically, nyquil just combines several drugs in an easy to use package for a good price. You can easily look at the ingredients list and find the generics for each drug and take those individually. It might cost a bit more, but it allowed you to remove the drugs you don't want to take. Also, might want to look at the ingredients for dayquil, so you can avoid the depressant effect with alcohol. If I remember right, it's the antihistamine that causes the drowsiness in nyquil.
 
2013-01-10 09:08:35 PM

3rdtimearound: would be so much safer if they just replaced it with Oxycodone


If it were the new formula, yeah. In fact my brother almost died of liver failure from percocet due to the acetaminophen, the only reason he was on percocet is the fear of oxy.
 
2013-01-10 09:14:08 PM

spidermilk: 3rdtimearound: would be so much safer if they just replaced it with Oxycodone

Except that wouldn't fix a dangerously high fever, which is the main reason to give someone Tylenol in the first place in my opinion.

I've quit taking Tylenol and switched to Naproxen (Aleve) since I get better results. But I only take it for headaches, as directed, without alcohol, after water and a snack don't work.

I have never been extremely sick, but I don't take cold/cough/whatever medicine. I don't eat for a few days, I drink water/honey/lemon or gatorade if its a GI thing, I take a hot shower to decongest. If I had a kid and they got the flu I would go for Tamiflu though and I would be much more worried about them getting much sicker than I would.

Now during allergy season, I will take Benadryl and generic Allegra every day so I can't talk about not being dependent on drugs.


On a more serious note, Aleve is much more effective for me than Tylenol is. Tylenol is just bad stuff to take long-term.
 
2013-01-10 09:18:30 PM

robodog: 3rdtimearound: would be so much safer if they just replaced it with Oxycodone

If it were the new formula, yeah. In fact my brother almost died of liver failure from percocet due to the acetaminophen, the only reason he was on percocet is the fear of oxy.


Pure Oxycodone would be safer because it contains no Acetaminophen, but I can certainly understand the fear of addiction issue. Oxy without APAP is safer on the liver, but if you take it all the time you may stop breathing.  Again, I hope no one took my suggestion seriously - I'd never suggest strong opioids be available freely like that, not in earnest anyway.
 
2013-01-10 09:18:57 PM
FTA: "It's safe as long as you take it at the right dose,"

In other words, listen to your pharmacist and/or doctor. Hell, just ask the store pharmacist where you're buying your Tylenol. They'll give you free consulting and advice on any medications you may use, whether it's OTC or prescription.
 
2013-01-10 09:23:13 PM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: This is not a repeat from 1982.


Came in here to wonder that, myself.
 
2013-01-10 09:24:45 PM

mgshamster: From the description -- it is rapidly absorbed through the skin and can carry other compounds with it -- this is almost certainly DMSO witn something like aspirin or Tylenol in it. Similar idea to Ben- Gay, which basically just absorbs aspirin into the skin.


no dude, it's IPA, aspirin and glycerin. transdermals about as good as dmso, actually, but doesn't carry other things along for the ride. i'm a formulations chemist in the herbal space, so i'm really getting a kick outta these replies.

dmso, b.t.w., is RAD - - too bad it's freaking expensive, especially for ACS or HPLC'ish grade stuff.
 
2013-01-10 09:25:17 PM

Coastalgrl: I wish you could sue people for coming into work/office sick. If that irresponsible annoying b*tch gets me sick and screws my grades and blows my 4.0, I'm going to be super pissed. I'm pounding airborne, fluids and healthy food with naps and fresh air. I hardly ever get sick and when I start feeling bad I immediately try to sleep it off which works most of the time.

/runny nose, slight cough and slight fever
//yes I took Nyquil to try to sleep it off.
///Hopefully my liver will be alright. Directions say warn against 3 alcoholic drinks PER DAY while taking it. I dont think Ive ever had more than 2 in one sitting ever.
////lightweight

healthy thoughts to everyone.


Airborne is a sham. Zinc has been proven to help with flu, Tamiflu can help with flu if you take it early enough. For all other "cures" there is just no science supporting them.

The high levels of Vitamin C in Airborne can cause kidney stones or worsen kidney disease. High levels of Vitamin E and Magnesium can also cause side effects like nausea, headaches, tiredness, etc. (which you would probably assume were the flu). Also, there is no proof that anti-oxidant supplements prevent cancer or have any medical benefit and some evidence that they could actually cause cancer.

/stick with fruits and vegetables!
 
2013-01-10 09:29:36 PM

spidermilk: Airborne is a sham. Zinc has been proven to help with flu, Tamiflu can help with flu if you take it early enough. For all other "cures" there is just no science supporting them.

The high levels of Vitamin C in Airborne can cause kidney stones or worsen kidney disease. High levels of Vitamin E and Magnesium can also cause side effects like nausea, headaches, tiredness, etc. (which you would probably assume were the flu). Also, there is no proof that anti-oxidant supplements prevent cancer or have any medical benefit and some evidence that they could actually cause cancer.

/stick with fruits and vegetables!


i like you.

the glycosylation patterns on sugars on plant cells mimic those of cold and flu viri, so by eating fruits and vegetables, like you're supposed to, yah, you really do get prevention.

if u want a pill, take AGP from echinacea for the same crap.
 
2013-01-10 09:30:30 PM

utah dude: the glycosylation patterns on sugars on plant cells mimic those of cold and flu viri, so by eating fruits and vegetables, like you're supposed to, yah, you really do get prevention.


of sugars on plant cells. ... prime immune system.

crap i'm tired. it's snowing. grr.
 
2013-01-10 09:33:45 PM

spidermilk: 3rdtimearound: would be so much safer if they just replaced it with Oxycodone

Except that wouldn't fix a dangerously high fever, which is the main reason to give someone Tylenol in the first place in my opinion.

I've quit taking Tylenol and switched to Naproxen (Aleve) since I get better results. But I only take it for headaches, as directed, without alcohol, after water and a snack don't work.

I have never been extremely sick, but I don't take cold/cough/whatever medicine. I don't eat for a few days, I drink water/honey/lemon or gatorade if its a GI thing, I take a hot shower to decongest. If I had a kid and they got the flu I would go for Tamiflu though and I would be much more worried about them getting much sicker than I would.

Now during allergy season, I will take Benadryl and generic Allegra every day so I can't talk about not being dependent on drugs.



Try a nasal rinse for allergies. I was a daily cetirizine / zyrtec user until I discovered how much more effective physically rinsing the allergens out was. It's very simple and easy to do. Not at all uncomfortable.

And I can't be 100% certain, but I believe it also helps reduce cold and flu incidence as well. At least, I seem to suffer them a lot less.
 
2013-01-10 09:34:12 PM

neongoats: Do people really still use Tylenol? It does nothing for me.


None of the NSAIDs do anything for me. I got a script of Naprox 550 (one pill is equivalent to 2.5 Aleves) and popped two at a time in vain hope it would help my back pain. Didn't do a thing.
 
2013-01-10 09:36:18 PM
Will CBS news be reprimanded for forgetting to include "early flu season" in their headline?
 
2013-01-10 09:39:26 PM

spidermilk: Coastalgrl: I wish you could sue people for coming into work/office sick. If that irresponsible annoying b*tch gets me sick and screws my grades and blows my 4.0, I'm going to be super pissed. I'm pounding airborne, fluids and healthy food with naps and fresh air. I hardly ever get sick and when I start feeling bad I immediately try to sleep it off which works most of the time.

/runny nose, slight cough and slight fever
//yes I took Nyquil to try to sleep it off.
///Hopefully my liver will be alright. Directions say warn against 3 alcoholic drinks PER DAY while taking it. I dont think Ive ever had more than 2 in one sitting ever.
////lightweight

healthy thoughts to everyone.

Airborne is a sham. Zinc has been proven to help with flu, Tamiflu can help with flu if you take it early enough. For all other "cures" there is just no science supporting them.

The high levels of Vitamin C in Airborne can cause kidney stones or worsen kidney disease. High levels of Vitamin E and Magnesium can also cause side effects like nausea, headaches, tiredness, etc. (which you would probably assume were the flu). Also, there is no proof that anti-oxidant supplements prevent cancer or have any medical benefit and some evidence that they could actually cause cancer.

/stick with fruits and vegetables!


I only take airborne as a preventative measure and not all the time. Like, before planes and hotels and when I know I'm going to be surrounded by sick people. Conferences especially seem to be filled with sick people. So I keep track of my intake and not OD. OD on anything isnt a good thing. My zinc is sitting in my office and I'll grab it tomorrow. Perhaps its a placebo affect but I haven't gotten sick when I travel in years. If its working, why bother changing it? If I am really sick, then its from sharing an office with someone who is hacking, sneezing as well as sharing the bathroom with her.

If it wasn't for the runny nose and sneezing, I would agree with above. Perhaps I am still adjusting to going from 20 degree weather back to 80 degree weather. At least thats what Im hoping and not being smashed into a tiny room with 45 other people most of whom were sick for a stupid meeting.

I love fruits and veggies but I need to limit my sugar intake for health reasons so when i need extra, I reach for a supplement. I also have severe difficulty with tablet based vitamins so the fact that airborne is basically a dissolvable and palatable form of vitamin.

General awareness of what one puts in their body is a good thing. I am also relying on plenty of rest, healthy eating and fresh air to do the rest.
 
2013-01-10 09:40:25 PM

TheDirtyNacho: Try a nasal rinse for allergies. I was a daily cetirizine / zyrtec user until I discovered how much more effective physically rinsing the allergens out was. It's very simple and easy to do. Not at all uncomfortable.

And I can't be 100% certain, but I believe it also helps reduce cold and flu incidence as well. At least, I seem to suffer them a lot less.


Neti pot, yay!

I lived in LA for years, and when I returned to Chicago I had forgotten about runny noses and chapped lips. "WTF, this is normal?!"

And then a friend introduced me to the joys of the neti pot.

www.sciencebasedmedicine.org
/ Looks absolutely ridiculous, but I am serious, it's a quality-of-life booster.
 
2013-01-10 09:54:51 PM
www.gagbay.com

/hot like my fever
 
2013-01-10 10:08:17 PM
Good for amoebas!
 
2013-01-10 10:16:21 PM

utah dude: mgshamster: From the description -- it is rapidly absorbed through the skin and can carry other compounds with it -- this is almost certainly DMSO witn something like aspirin or Tylenol in it. Similar idea to Ben- Gay, which basically just absorbs aspirin into the skin.

no dude, it's IPA, aspirin and glycerin. transdermals about as good as dmso, actually, but doesn't carry other things along for the ride. i'm a formulations chemist in the herbal space, so i'm really getting a kick outta these replies.

dmso, b.t.w., is RAD - - too bad it's freaking expensive, especially for ACS or HPLC'ish grade stuff.


You quoted the wrong person. :)
 
2013-01-10 10:18:59 PM

mgshamster: You quoted the wrong person. :)


i told you. i'm tired and it's snowing and there are wolves outside.
 
2013-01-10 10:23:20 PM

utah dude: mgshamster: You quoted the wrong person. :)

i told you. i'm tired and it's snowing and there are wolves outside.


All is forgiven.
 
2013-01-10 10:23:24 PM

Ral: I was on the jury of a court case that involved a situation of excessive acetaminophen intake. Yes, it will destroy your liver, but you have to take way more than the dose on the label and you have to do it for several weeks. If you stick to the dose instructions on the label, you'll be fine.


I remember about a year ago a teenage died from Bengay or something similar. The parents said "well it was just Bengay, how were we supposed to know that it could kill her?" The girl was using it constantly due to her being involved in many sports. She OD'd. At that point it really dawned upon me how much "just pop a couple of Excedrin for that headache" or "do you have a Tylenol or something?" has proliferated in our society. It made me really re-evaluate how often I used Bengay and other muscle rubs. With my lupus, there are times that the warmth from Icyhot or a similar product helps my joints feel better. While I do not use it nearly as much as that girl, I definitely think about it more now.

Tylenol is also some seriously jacked up stuff. When I sat down to read about what it does to the human liver, I cringed. My sister has Crohn's and the only medication that her doc will prescribe for pain is Vicodin. Her husband was telling me how she takes it like candy when the pain gets bad. After I read about acetaminophen and the liver, I called her up and begged her to find a pain management doctor who would prescribe something for pain without Tylenol (I am on Nucynta). As far as I know she hasn't. It scares me to death to think about the state of her liver and the strain on her already-stressed system.
 
2013-01-10 10:24:03 PM

jaytkay: TheDirtyNacho: Try a nasal rinse for allergies. I was a daily cetirizine / zyrtec user until I discovered how much more effective physically rinsing the allergens out was. It's very simple and easy to do. Not at all uncomfortable.

And I can't be 100% certain, but I believe it also helps reduce cold and flu incidence as well. At least, I seem to suffer them a lot less.

Neti pot, yay!

I lived in LA for years, and when I returned to Chicago I had forgotten about runny noses and chapped lips. "WTF, this is normal?!"

And then a friend introduced me to the joys of the neti pot.

[www.sciencebasedmedicine.org image 397x266]
/ Looks absolutely ridiculous, but I am serious, it's a quality-of-life booster.



I like the squeeze bottle. Requires less head and neck tilting and you can create some pressure (don't use too much though!)
 
2013-01-10 10:29:36 PM

TheDirtyNacho:
Try a nasal rinse for allergies. I was a daily cetirizine / zyrtec user until I discovered how much more effective physically rinsing the allergens out was. It's very simple and easy to do. Not at all uncomfortable.

And I can't be 100% certain, but I believe it also helps reduce cold and flu incidence as well. At least, I seem to suffer them a lot less.


Not sure about the flu because it's lower respiratory but it sure helps with the common cold. I'm not sure it prevents a cold, but from my experience it lessens the nasal congestion part and stop colds from turning into sinus infections by cleaning out the snot before it builds up, I haven't had a sinus infection since I started using on 5 or so years ago. I certainly recommend it to everyone, especially to those who are prone to sinus infections or have allergies.

Nothing like self waterboarding to fight the cold.
 
2013-01-10 10:31:38 PM

TheDirtyNacho: I like the squeeze bottle. Requires less head and neck tilting and you can create some pressure (don't use too much though!)


I did not know there were other options. Will look into that, thanks.
 
2013-01-10 10:37:43 PM

jaytkay: TheDirtyNacho: I like the squeeze bottle. Requires less head and neck tilting and you can create some pressure (don't use too much though!)

I did not know there were other options. Will look into that, thanks.


Just make sure you disinfect the water and/or use treated water. Don't want to get a new infection trying to clear out the symptoms of a different infection.
 
2013-01-10 10:43:29 PM

TheDirtyNacho: spidermilk: 3rdtimearound: would be so much safer if they just replaced it with Oxycodone

Except that wouldn't fix a dangerously high fever, which is the main reason to give someone Tylenol in the first place in my opinion.

I've quit taking Tylenol and switched to Naproxen (Aleve) since I get better results. But I only take it for headaches, as directed, without alcohol, after water and a snack don't work.

I have never been extremely sick, but I don't take cold/cough/whatever medicine. I don't eat for a few days, I drink water/honey/lemon or gatorade if its a GI thing, I take a hot shower to decongest. If I had a kid and they got the flu I would go for Tamiflu though and I would be much more worried about them getting much sicker than I would.

Now during allergy season, I will take Benadryl and generic Allegra every day so I can't talk about not being dependent on drugs.


Try a nasal rinse for allergies. I was a daily cetirizine / zyrtec user until I discovered how much more effective physically rinsing the allergens out was. It's very simple and easy to do. Not at all uncomfortable.

And I can't be 100% certain, but I believe it also helps reduce cold and flu incidence as well. At least, I seem to suffer them a lot less.


Yea I do use a neti pot as well and I do like the results. I shower and change clothes after spending time outside and for being such a small thing, it really helps. My allergies are really only bad for a specific time in early summer so most of the year things are peachy.
 
2013-01-10 10:49:53 PM

dk47: It is super annoying to weed out the cold pills / syrups that don't have acetaminophen in them. Stuff must be cheap to manufacture or something, I can't figure out why almost every brand has it. Even more annoying that I can't buy pseudoephedrine OTC anymore.


Cheap and it is very useful for reducing fevers. An all-in-one package mentality is usually a cost saver when you want something like this but it seems pretty obvious people aren't reading the labels closely enough and then suffering for it.

/not sure Darwin wants these
 
2013-01-10 10:56:43 PM

Anastacya: Ral: I was on the jury of a court case that involved a situation of excessive acetaminophen intake. Yes, it will destroy your liver, but you have to take way more than the dose on the label and you have to do it for several weeks. If you stick to the dose instructions on the label, you'll be fine.

I remember about a year ago a teenage died from Bengay or something similar. The parents said "well it was just Bengay, how were we supposed to know that it could kill her?" The girl was using it constantly due to her being involved in many sports. She OD'd. At that point it really dawned upon me how much "just pop a couple of Excedrin for that headache" or "do you have a Tylenol or something?" has proliferated in our society. It made me really re-evaluate how often I used Bengay and other muscle rubs. With my lupus, there are times that the warmth from Icyhot or a similar product helps my joints feel better. While I do not use it nearly as much as that girl, I definitely think about it more now


If I remember correctly, the girl's OD came from the methyl salicylate in the Bengay. Oil of wintergreen. Dangerous stuff. I do get headaches (stress, and the occasional migraine), and I do take Excedrin (generic) for them, although I should probably reevaluate that. It works, though. As a supplement, though, I do apply menthol gel to my forehead. Stopain Cold gel, to be specific. The only active ingredient is menthol, which is much safer than methyl salicylate.

/Kinda wondering whether White Tiger Balm would be worth trying. Hmmm.
 
2013-01-10 11:02:14 PM

Canton: Anastacya: Ral: I was on the jury of a court case that involved a situation of excessive acetaminophen intake. Yes, it will destroy your liver, but you have to take way more than the dose on the label and you have to do it for several weeks. If you stick to the dose instructions on the label, you'll be fine.

I remember about a year ago a teenage died from Bengay or something similar. The parents said "well it was just Bengay, how were we supposed to know that it could kill her?" The girl was using it constantly due to her being involved in many sports. She OD'd. At that point it really dawned upon me how much "just pop a couple of Excedrin for that headache" or "do you have a Tylenol or something?" has proliferated in our society. It made me really re-evaluate how often I used Bengay and other muscle rubs. With my lupus, there are times that the warmth from Icyhot or a similar product helps my joints feel better. While I do not use it nearly as much as that girl, I definitely think about it more now

If I remember correctly, the girl's OD came from the methyl salicylate in the Bengay. Oil of wintergreen. Dangerous stuff. I do get headaches (stress, and the occasional migraine), and I do take Excedrin (generic) for them, although I should probably reevaluate that. It works, though. As a supplement, though, I do apply menthol gel to my forehead. Stopain Cold gel, to be specific. The only active ingredient is menthol, which is much safer than methyl salicylate.

/Kinda wondering whether White Tiger Balm would be worth trying. Hmmm.


It's not that dangerous. It was more of a "way too much" issue. Dose makes the poison, and all.

/also route of administration makes the poison
 
2013-01-10 11:04:30 PM

lake_huron: Please please please just get your whole family vaccinated? Just make it less likely?

/kthxbye


Just did that this evening. Now we just need to not leave the house for the next two weeks or so until it kicks in.
 
2013-01-10 11:24:27 PM
Linkster .....I have worked in southern NM and AZ around those bees. Yes, I know people that have been stung multiple times and I have been attacked myself. But, they're not the "hit the panic button" type of thing to get the entire country worried about. I've spent a lifetime working outside and have literally had to run for my life from hornets too. So pack a hive of them up your....

/dumbass
 
2013-01-10 11:32:31 PM

mgshamster: Canton: Anastacya: Ral: I was on the jury of a court case that involved a situation of excessive acetaminophen intake. Yes, it will destroy your liver, but you have to take way more than the dose on the label and you have to do it for several weeks. If you stick to the dose instructions on the label, you'll be fine.

I remember about a year ago a teenage died from Bengay or something similar. The parents said "well it was just Bengay, how were we supposed to know that it could kill her?" The girl was using it constantly due to her being involved in many sports. She OD'd. At that point it really dawned upon me how much "just pop a couple of Excedrin for that headache" or "do you have a Tylenol or something?" has proliferated in our society. It made me really re-evaluate how often I used Bengay and other muscle rubs. With my lupus, there are times that the warmth from Icyhot or a similar product helps my joints feel better. While I do not use it nearly as much as that girl, I definitely think about it more now

If I remember correctly, the girl's OD came from the methyl salicylate in the Bengay. Oil of wintergreen. Dangerous stuff. I do get headaches (stress, and the occasional migraine), and I do take Excedrin (generic) for them, although I should probably reevaluate that. It works, though. As a supplement, though, I do apply menthol gel to my forehead. Stopain Cold gel, to be specific. The only active ingredient is menthol, which is much safer than methyl salicylate.

/Kinda wondering whether White Tiger Balm would be worth trying. Hmmm.

It's not that dangerous. It was more of a "way too much" issue. Dose makes the poison, and all.

/also route of administration makes the poison


True, but if menthol alone works, why should I add a somewhat riskier chemical to the mix?

On that note, I have to make a grocery run this weekend to pick up a few things. Maybe they have Bayer AM... Aspirin, caffeine, no acetaminophen. Not giving up Excedrin entirely, but options are good.
 
2013-01-11 12:01:56 AM

assjuice: In college I drank a bottle of cold medicine just for the DXM trip. Later learned I should have bought the kind only for cough, not the one with benadryl and acetominophen in it too. My liver feels a little heavy, but otherwise it's fine.


I spent the Thursday before Xmas in the ER because of a blood pressure spike (to 202/110 for a short while) from taking 4 teaspoons (1 doseage cup) of a generic DXM syrup. I hadn't taken the stuff since I was a kid, apparently I've gotten rather sensitive to certain OTC drugs over the years.

Made me feel like a farking lightweight when the grizzled old nurse (male) reassures me I'm not going to die at the end of the evening, then says "We actually see this reaction a lot. Usually it's dumb kids who drank 2 or 3 bottles."

And I had one thimble-sized cup of the stuff.

Maybe I'll just sniff some fumes off a can of light beer next time I want to get drunk. *sob*

/Taking 2 medications daily that interact badly with alcohol and another as-needed for headaches that has tylenol... it'd be a race between which would kill me first, seizures or my liver detonating if I drank anything.
//Hasn't been able to get drunk since '09 as a result :(
 
2013-01-11 12:14:00 AM

Qwertyette: FTA: "Make sure that they aren't taking two different ones at the same time," Gardenier said. "If your child is small, you can't give a small child an adult dose. Always check with your pediatric provider." [...]
First, always read and follow the label. Taking more than the recommended dose or using a different measuring system -- for example, a spoon instead of the provided measuring cup -- can be dangerous.


Translation: Hurr durr derp dee durr. I'ma gonna measure my medicine by the bucketfull and give it to my newborn. durrrrrrr.


Oh, you'd be surprised. When I did my EMT internship at the local ER, the stuff parents did (and didn't) do with their infants was stunning. Proving yet again my mother's maxim "Kids don't survive BECAUSE, they survive IN SPITE OF."
 
2013-01-11 12:20:05 AM

Canton: mgshamster: Canton: Anastacya: Ral: I was on the jury of a court case that involved a situation of excessive acetaminophen intake. Yes, it will destroy your liver, but you have to take way more than the dose on the label and you have to do it for several weeks. If you stick to the dose instructions on the label, you'll be fine.

I remember about a year ago a teenage died from Bengay or something similar. The parents said "well it was just Bengay, how were we supposed to know that it could kill her?" The girl was using it constantly due to her being involved in many sports. She OD'd. At that point it really dawned upon me how much "just pop a couple of Excedrin for that headache" or "do you have a Tylenol or something?" has proliferated in our society. It made me really re-evaluate how often I used Bengay and other muscle rubs. With my lupus, there are times that the warmth from Icyhot or a similar product helps my joints feel better. While I do not use it nearly as much as that girl, I definitely think about it more now

If I remember correctly, the girl's OD came from the methyl salicylate in the Bengay. Oil of wintergreen. Dangerous stuff. I do get headaches (stress, and the occasional migraine), and I do take Excedrin (generic) for them, although I should probably reevaluate that. It works, though. As a supplement, though, I do apply menthol gel to my forehead. Stopain Cold gel, to be specific. The only active ingredient is menthol, which is much safer than methyl salicylate.

/Kinda wondering whether White Tiger Balm would be worth trying. Hmmm.

It's not that dangerous. It was more of a "way too much" issue. Dose makes the poison, and all.

/also route of administration makes the poison

True, but if menthol alone works, why should I add a somewhat riskier chemical to the mix?

On that note, I have to make a grocery run this weekend to pick up a few things. Maybe they have Bayer AM... Aspirin, caffeine, no acetaminophen. Not giving up Excedrin entirely, but o ...


Anacin is also aspirin + caffeine, in case you can't find the other. I don't think they make an ibuprofen + caffeine blend. If one exists please let me know!
 
2013-01-11 12:22:05 AM
How long does it take to kill your liver? Let's say hypothetically I take between four and...ten doses of nyquil most nights...let's also say I'm a pretty regular drinker...and lets say this has been going on for...years. any fark doctors/toxicologists care to way in?
 
2013-01-11 12:22:45 AM

Plush_Cthulhu: Canton: mgshamster: Canton: Anastacya: Ral: I was on the jury of a court case that involved a situation of excessive acetaminophen intake. Yes, it will destroy your liver, but you have to take way more than the dose on the label and you have to do it for several weeks. If you stick to the dose instructions on the label, you'll be fine.

I remember about a year ago a teenage died from Bengay or something similar. The parents said "well it was just Bengay, how were we supposed to know that it could kill her?" The girl was using it constantly due to her being involved in many sports. She OD'd. At that point it really dawned upon me how much "just pop a couple of Excedrin for that headache" or "do you have a Tylenol or something?" has proliferated in our society. It made me really re-evaluate how often I used Bengay and other muscle rubs. With my lupus, there are times that the warmth from Icyhot or a similar product helps my joints feel better. While I do not use it nearly as much as that girl, I definitely think about it more now

If I remember correctly, the girl's OD came from the methyl salicylate in the Bengay. Oil of wintergreen. Dangerous stuff. I do get headaches (stress, and the occasional migraine), and I do take Excedrin (generic) for them, although I should probably reevaluate that. It works, though. As a supplement, though, I do apply menthol gel to my forehead. Stopain Cold gel, to be specific. The only active ingredient is menthol, which is much safer than methyl salicylate.

/Kinda wondering whether White Tiger Balm would be worth trying. Hmmm.

It's not that dangerous. It was more of a "way too much" issue. Dose makes the poison, and all.

/also route of administration makes the poison

True, but if menthol alone works, why should I add a somewhat riskier chemical to the mix?

On that note, I have to make a grocery run this weekend to pick up a few things. Maybe they have Bayer AM... Aspirin, caffeine, no acetaminophen. Not giving up Excedrin entirel ...


Simple. Just take your ibuprofen with coffee.
 
2013-01-11 12:23:21 AM

Plush_Cthulhu: Canton: mgshamster: Canton: Anastacya: Ral: I was on the jury of a court case that involved a situation of excessive acetaminophen intake. Yes, it will destroy your liver, but you have to take way more than the dose on the label and you have to do it for several weeks. If you stick to the dose instructions on the label, you'll be fine.

I remember about a year ago a teenage died from Bengay or something similar. The parents said "well it was just Bengay, how were we supposed to know that it could kill her?" The girl was using it constantly due to her being involved in many sports. She OD'd. At that point it really dawned upon me how much "just pop a couple of Excedrin for that headache" or "do you have a Tylenol or something?" has proliferated in our society. It made me really re-evaluate how often I used Bengay and other muscle rubs. With my lupus, there are times that the warmth from Icyhot or a similar product helps my joints feel better. While I do not use it nearly as much as that girl, I definitely think about it more now

If I remember correctly, the girl's OD came from the methyl salicylate in the Bengay. Oil of wintergreen. Dangerous stuff. I do get headaches (stress, and the occasional migraine), and I do take Excedrin (generic) for them, although I should probably reevaluate that. It works, though. As a supplement, though, I do apply menthol gel to my forehead. Stopain Cold gel, to be specific. The only active ingredient is menthol, which is much safer than methyl salicylate.

/Kinda wondering whether White Tiger Balm would be worth trying. Hmmm.

It's not that dangerous. It was more of a "way too much" issue. Dose makes the poison, and all.

/also route of administration makes the poison

True, but if menthol alone works, why should I add a somewhat riskier chemical to the mix?

On that note, I have to make a grocery run this weekend to pick up a few things. Maybe they have Bayer AM... Aspirin, caffeine, no acetaminophen. Not giving up Excedrin entirel ...


Thanks. I'll see what I can find. Possibly tomorrow. The Meijer pharmacy department isn't half bad. (If not them, then maybe Walgreens, but a special trip depends on how cold it is outside.)
 
2013-01-11 12:24:57 AM

Canton: Anastacya: Ral: I was on the jury of a court case that involved a situation of excessive acetaminophen intake. Yes, it will destroy your liver, but you have to take way more than the dose on the label and you have to do it for several weeks. If you stick to the dose instructions on the label, you'll be fine.

I remember about a year ago a teenage died from Bengay or something similar. The parents said "well it was just Bengay, how were we supposed to know that it could kill her?" The girl was using it constantly due to her being involved in many sports. She OD'd. At that point it really dawned upon me how much "just pop a couple of Excedrin for that headache" or "do you have a Tylenol or something?" has proliferated in our society. It made me really re-evaluate how often I used Bengay and other muscle rubs. With my lupus, there are times that the warmth from Icyhot or a similar product helps my joints feel better. While I do not use it nearly as much as that girl, I definitely think about it more now

If I remember correctly, the girl's OD came from the methyl salicylate in the Bengay. Oil of wintergreen. Dangerous stuff. I do get headaches (stress, and the occasional migraine), and I do take Excedrin (generic) for them, although I should probably reevaluate that. It works, though. As a supplement, though, I do apply menthol gel to my forehead. Stopain Cold gel, to be specific. The only active ingredient is menthol, which is much safer than methyl salicylate.

/Kinda wondering whether White Tiger Balm would be worth trying. Hmmm.


I have always wondered if those Stopain products really do work. I get horrible headaches at times and when the Excedrin isn't working I really know that I am in trouble. What does it feel like when it is working and how fast does the pain subside?

/non-sequitur: is the stuff that DI Chandler from Whitechapel rubs on his temples something similar to Stopain? I don't know what it is and he only seems to use it in high-stress moments in the show.

//ty for answering, if you do
 
2013-01-11 12:37:40 AM

Silentbob768768: How long does it take to kill your liver? Let's say hypothetically I take between four and...ten doses of nyquil most nights...let's also say I'm a pretty regular drinker...and lets say this has been going on for...years. any fark doctors/toxicologists care to way in?


Depends. The max recommended daily dose for acetaminophen is 4000mg/day for those who don't drink regularly. But this also assumes it's seperated by 6 hours for each 1000mg. 10x the NyQuil dose gives you about 3200mg of acetaminophen. But if you're taking it all at once... And you are adding alcohol to the mix... Then you might want to go to the doc soon to get your liver checked.

Here's what happens: when you take Tylenol, your liver converts it into a liver toxic form with a P450 enzyme called CYP2E1. This is the same enzyme that processes alcohol. When you drink lots of alcohol, your body says, "we need more CYP2E1! Produce more!" This means that when you take Tylenol, the increased CYP2E1 creates more of the liver toxic form than it otherwise would. The good news is that you have another enzyme - glutathione esterase - that detoxifies that chemical. Then it goes out your urine. But there's a limited amount of glutathione, so if your body gets overloaded and runs out of glutathione, you can start getting damage to your liver when you take Tylenol.

So that's the risk you take when you combine regular alcohol use with acetaminophen.
 
2013-01-11 12:43:19 AM

mgshamster: moefuggenbrew: A friend of mine sells a tylenol alternative:  shameless plug

;)

Ten to one it's just mineral oil with menthol in it. I notice that there's no ingredients list anywhere on that website or on the bottle, which is illegal. In addition to there's the classic "Quack Miranda Warning." Your friend is a scam artist and a lying sack of shiat. I hate people that prey on people using ignorance and lies.


LIES and slander.

I'm willing to bet it is at least 30% isopropenol.
 
2013-01-11 12:53:57 AM

mgshamster: Silentbob768768: How long does it take to kill your liver? Let's say hypothetically I take between four and...ten doses of nyquil most nights...let's also say I'm a pretty regular drinker...and lets say this has been going on for...years. any fark doctors/toxicologists care to way in?

Depends. The max recommended daily dose for acetaminophen is 4000mg/day for those who don't drink regularly. But this also assumes it's seperated by 6 hours for each 1000mg. 10x the NyQuil dose gives you about 3200mg of acetaminophen. But if you're taking it all at once... And you are adding alcohol to the mix... Then you might want to go to the doc soon to get your liver checked.

Here's what happens: when you take Tylenol, your liver converts it into a liver toxic form with a P450 enzyme called CYP2E1. This is the same enzyme that processes alcohol. When you drink lots of alcohol, your body says, "we need more CYP2E1! Produce more!" This means that when you take Tylenol, the increased CYP2E1 creates more of the liver toxic form than it otherwise would. The good news is that you have another enzyme - glutathione esterase - that detoxifies that chemical. Then it goes out your urine. But there's a limited amount of glutathione, so if your body gets overloaded and runs out of glutathione, you can start getting damage to your liver when you take Tylenol.

So that's the risk you take when you combine regular alcohol use with acetaminophen.


Interesting...yea its all at once every night and generally involves drinking. Also is the pills if that makes a difference
 
2013-01-11 01:15:54 AM

Anastacya: I have always wondered if those Stopain products really do work. I get horrible headaches at times and when the Excedrin isn't working I really know that I am in trouble. What does it feel like when it is working and how fast does the pain subside?

/non-sequitur: is the stuff that DI Chandler from Whitechapel rubs on his temples something similar to Stopain? I don't know what it is and he only seems to use it in high-stress mome ...


For headaches, the menthol doesn't stop the pain entirely, but it helps. It feels very cold almost immediately -- sometimes my eyes water from the vapors, if I get a bit too close to an eyebrow -- and then settles into a milder cold. The mild cold lasts for... well, long enough for me to get to sleep, if I'm lucky. Used to use menthol gel pads that were made for headache relief, but I haven't seen them in years. So, the topical gel it is.

It's just a menthol rub. Doesn't have to be a particular brand. This one just had the highest concentration of menthol I could find. Plus I keep getting coupons for it.

/Not a medical care professional, just a person who gets headaches.
//Never seen Whitechapel.
 
2013-01-11 01:16:03 AM

Silentbob768768: mgshamster: Silentbob768768: How long does it take to kill your liver? Let's say hypothetically I take between four and...ten doses of nyquil most nights...let's also say I'm a pretty regular drinker...and lets say this has been going on for...years. any fark doctors/toxicologists care to way in?

Depends. The max recommended daily dose for acetaminophen is 4000mg/day for those who don't drink regularly. But this also assumes it's seperated by 6 hours for each 1000mg. 10x the NyQuil dose gives you about 3200mg of acetaminophen. But if you're taking it all at once... And you are adding alcohol to the mix... Then you might want to go to the doc soon to get your liver checked.

Here's what happens: when you take Tylenol, your liver converts it into a liver toxic form with a P450 enzyme called CYP2E1. This is the same enzyme that processes alcohol. When you drink lots of alcohol, your body says, "we need more CYP2E1! Produce more!" This means that when you take Tylenol, the increased CYP2E1 creates more of the liver toxic form than it otherwise would. The good news is that you have another enzyme - glutathione esterase - that detoxifies that chemical. Then it goes out your urine. But there's a limited amount of glutathione, so if your body gets overloaded and runs out of glutathione, you can start getting damage to your liver when you take Tylenol.

So that's the risk you take when you combine regular alcohol use with acetaminophen.

Interesting...yea its all at once every night and generally involves drinking. Also is the pills if that makes a difference


Well, using the pills just means that your dosing is more exact. But if that's what you're really doing, I'd recommend seeing a doc soon and getting your liver checked. May I ask why you're doing this? If you need a pain killer, there are better options that don't damage your liver (like ibuprofen or aspirin, although both those can cause problems with your stomach). If you need a decongestant, just find a generic brand that is only dextromethorphan. Just realize that that's only for coughs caused by colds or the flu or similar interests. If your cough is due to something else, see a doc about the appropriate medicine. For example, I have asthma, so that medicine won't help my coughs when I get an asthma attack; I need albuterol instead. If you're taking it because you need an antihistimine, then there are better antihistimines out there that don't have a drowsy effect - remember, drowsiness in drugs is a bad idea to mix with alcohol (can lead to severe depressive effects, like respiratory depression or failure, and if you can't breath, you don't live). If you're taking it to be able to sleep, for one, don't - there are better sleeping pills out there (I take diphenhydramine), and it's best not to mix hypnotics with alcohol in general, for the same reason I mentioned above.
 
2013-01-11 01:19:03 AM

mgshamster: Silentbob768768: mgshamster: Silentbob768768: How long does it take to kill your liver? Let's say hypothetically I take between four and...ten doses of nyquil most nights...let's also say I'm a pretty regular drinker...and lets say this has been going on for...years. any fark doctors/toxicologists care to way in?

Depends. The max recommended daily dose for acetaminophen is 4000mg/day for those who don't drink regularly. But this also assumes it's seperated by 6 hours for each 1000mg. 10x the NyQuil dose gives you about 3200mg of acetaminophen. But if you're taking it all at once... And you are adding alcohol to the mix... Then you might want to go to the doc soon to get your liver checked.

Here's what happens: when you take Tylenol, your liver converts it into a liver toxic form with a P450 enzyme called CYP2E1. This is the same enzyme that processes alcohol. When you drink lots of alcohol, your body says, "we need more CYP2E1! Produce more!" This means that when you take Tylenol, the increased CYP2E1 creates more of the liver toxic form than it otherwise would. The good news is that you have another enzyme - glutathione esterase - that detoxifies that chemical. Then it goes out your urine. But there's a limited amount of glutathione, so if your body gets overloaded and runs out of glutathione, you can start getting damage to your liver when you take Tylenol.

So that's the risk you take when you combine regular alcohol use with acetaminophen.

Interesting...yea its all at once every night and generally involves drinking. Also is the pills if that makes a difference

Well, using the pills just means that your dosing is more exact. But if that's what you're really doing, I'd recommend seeing a doc soon and getting your liver checked. May I ask why you're doing this? If you need a pain killer, there are better options that don't damage your liver (like ibuprofen or aspirin, although both those can cause problems with your stomach). If you need a decongestant, ju ...


I should mention that all of that can be avoided simply by not drinking alcohol, but this is Fark, so that's an unreasonable request.
 
2013-01-11 05:21:38 AM

ayrsayle: I spent the Thursday before Xmas in the ER because of a blood pressure spike (to 202/110 for a short while) from taking 4 teaspoons (1 doseage cup) of a generic DXM syrup. I hadn't taken the stuff since I was a kid, apparently I've gotten rather sensitive to certain OTC drugs over the years.

Made me feel like a farking lightweight when the grizzled old nurse (male) reassures me I'm not going to die at the end of the evening, then says "We actually see this reaction a lot. Usually it's dumb kids who drank 2 or 3 bottles."

And I had one thimble-sized cup of the stuff.


A couple years ago I was low on PTO so decided to go to work sick and tough it out instead of staying home. I took one standard (recommended) Dayquil dose offered by a coworker.

And, I thought my heart was going to explode out of my chest.

My nerves were off, my skin got weird and clammy, palms sweating uncontrollably... I felt like I just ate 5 pounds of ground coffee beans and 3 hits of bad acid.

By the time it wore off, the flu was a farking reprieve from the cure!

To hell with OTC drugs. I'm a bit jaded and admittedly hold a small amount of irrational bias (though every news story you hear it becomes more rational)
I'm convinced that most the remedies our society offers are worse than the ailment in the long run.

They just want to sell you a drug and they really don't care which one or what it will do to you in 20 years. They just hope you buy a lot of it; from now until the end of time.
 
2013-01-11 06:13:35 AM

mgshamster: Here's the deal people. The therapeutic index (TI) of Tylenol is about 4. What this means is that the dose needed to produce a toxic effect (for Tylenol, it's the liver) is only 4 times greater than the dose needed for medicinal effects. That ratio is absolutely horrible. Normally, we want something that has a TI of 100 or more. The larger the TI, the better.

Oh, and if you are ever thinking of committing suicide via Tylenol, don't. Liver failure is a very painful way to die, and it takes days. Also, if you're an alcoholic, I strongly recommend that you avoid Tylenol or any other product that has acetaminophen (aka paracetamol) in it.

/Toxicologist


My dad committed suicide that way 17 years ago, and it was a horrible way to go. He was passing blood from almost every orifice and went blind as everything shut down. He lingered in hospice for about a week. I haven't had Tylenol in the house since.

/miss him every day, damnit
 
2013-01-11 09:08:06 AM

mgshamster: Silentbob768768: mgshamster: Silentbob768768: How long does it take to kill your liver? Let's say hypothetically I take between four and...ten doses of nyquil most nights...let's also say I'm a pretty regular drinker...and lets say this has been going on for...years. any fark doctors/toxicologists care to way in?

Depends. The max recommended daily dose for acetaminophen is 4000mg/day for those who don't drink regularly. But this also assumes it's seperated by 6 hours for each 1000mg. 10x the NyQuil dose gives you about 3200mg of acetaminophen. But if you're taking it all at once... And you are adding alcohol to the mix... Then you might want to go to the doc soon to get your liver checked.

Here's what happens: when you take Tylenol, your liver converts it into a liver toxic form with a P450 enzyme called CYP2E1. This is the same enzyme that processes alcohol. When you drink lots of alcohol, your body says, "we need more CYP2E1! Produce more!" This means that when you take Tylenol, the increased CYP2E1 creates more of the liver toxic form than it otherwise would. The good news is that you have another enzyme - glutathione esterase - that detoxifies that chemical. Then it goes out your urine. But there's a limited amount of glutathione, so if your body gets overloaded and runs out of glutathione, you can start getting damage to your liver when you take Tylenol.

So that's the risk you take when you combine regular alcohol use with acetaminophen.

Interesting...yea its all at once every night and generally involves drinking. Also is the pills if that makes a difference

Well, using the pills just means that your dosing is more exact. But if that's what you're really doing, I'd recommend seeing a doc soon and getting your liver checked. May I ask why you're doing this? If you need a pain killer, there are better options that don't damage your liver (like ibuprofen or aspirin, although both those can cause problems with your stomach). If you need a decongestant, just find a generic brand that is only dextromethorphan. Just realize that that's only for coughs caused by colds or the flu or similar interests. If your cough is due to something else, see a doc about the appropriate medicine. For example, I have asthma, so that medicine won't help my coughs when I get an asthma attack; I need albuterol instead. If you're taking it because you need an antihistimine, then there are better antihistimines out there that don't have a drowsy effect - remember, drowsiness in drugs is a bad idea to mix with alcohol (can lead to severe depressive effects, like respiratory depression or failure, and if you can't breath, you don't live). If you're taking it to be able to sleep, for one, don't - there are better sleeping pills out there (I take diphenhydramine), and it's best not to mix hypnotics with alcohol in general, for the same reason I mentioned above.


I take it to sleep. No OTC sleep meds work for me. Ambien Doesn't work. Insurance is fighting me on lunestra and they won't cover a sleep study
 
2013-01-11 09:14:26 AM

Silentbob768768: Interesting...yea its all at once every night and generally involves drinking. Also is the pills if that makes a difference


Dude. You need to stop or at least cut back. You're gonna kill yourself and it won't be pleasant.

I'm up to 5-6 percs per day (325mg of acetaminophen each). I take one every 1 1/2 - 2 hours between 8 am and 1 pm (for a total of 4 pills). I then start drinking my beers which act as a muscle relaxer/anti inflammatory and... well I like beer. I drink 3 500ml 5.2% beers over the course of about 5 hours and usually take one more perc near the end of that and eat dinner. Then I switch to drinking watered down fruit juice with a splash of wine mixed in (like 1-2 parts wine to 10 parts juice/water which by the time I fall asleep usually works out to about 300ml of wine over the course of 6 hours). If I'm having a particularly bad pain day I might take one more perc in the evening. Then I take a 500mg Ibuprofin before bed to help keep away muscle spazms.

Even with all my caution and fretting over it I know I'm still pushing my luck and if I take that sixth perc or have even one extra beer I am WRECKED the next day. If I do that for more than one night in a row I can start seeing a bit of yellowing around my eyes... which is terrifying.

Be careful.
 
2013-01-11 09:21:49 AM
And things to watch out for are yellowing of the skin and/or in the whites of your eyes and skin lesions that don't seem to want to heal.

A friend of mine who's been slamming vodka on top of T3s for decades is now covered in sore to the point he has to wear bandages on his arms. Doctor told him he'd be fine after three months if he stopped cold turkey. My friend seems to think that means he can stop for 3 months then go right back to it.

The things alcoholics convince themselves of to keep drinking. :-/
 
2013-01-11 09:21:59 AM

here to help: Silentbob768768: Interesting...yea its all at once every night and generally involves drinking. Also is the pills if that makes a difference

Dude. You need to stop or at least cut back. You're gonna kill yourself and it won't be pleasant.

I'm up to 5-6 percs per day (325mg of acetaminophen each). I take one every 1 1/2 - 2 hours between 8 am and 1 pm (for a total of 4 pills). I then start drinking my beers which act as a muscle relaxer/anti inflammatory and... well I like beer. I drink 3 500ml 5.2% beers over the course of about 5 hours and usually take one more perc near the end of that and eat dinner. Then I switch to drinking watered down fruit juice with a splash of wine mixed in (like 1-2 parts wine to 10 parts juice/water which by the time I fall asleep usually works out to about 300ml of wine over the course of 6 hours). If I'm having a particularly bad pain day I might take one more perc in the evening. Then I take a 500mg Ibuprofin before bed to help keep away muscle spazms.

Even with all my caution and fretting over it I know I'm still pushing my luck and if I take that sixth perc or have even one extra beer I am WRECKED the next day. If I do that for more than one night in a row I can start seeing a bit of yellowing around my eyes... which is terrifying.

Be careful.


It's been a few years and no negative affects that I've seen so far
 
2013-01-11 09:23:44 AM

Silentbob768768: I take it to sleep. No OTC sleep meds work for me. Ambien Doesn't work. Insurance is fighting me on lunestra and they won't cover a sleep study


I don't know if this will help or not but they now make ZZZQuil which is basically Nyquil without the other medicine. My wife has been using it for about a week and it's been working great for her. I'm not a doctor, but it seems like this might be a better choice for you than Nyquil.
 
2013-01-11 09:29:09 AM

Silentbob768768: It's been a few years and no negative affects that I've seen so far


The liver is a very resilient organ. It can take a serious pounding but once you cross over a certain threshold it'll f*ck up spectacularly. It can happen slowly over time then POW or you can just take too much one night and that will set it off. Once you are there you are in for a world of problems and if you think proper sleeping pills are expensive just wait until you have to start seeing liver/kidney specialists.
Frankly it sounds like you've become addicted.

Good luck... seriously.
 
2013-01-11 09:30:22 AM

sxacho: Silentbob768768: I take it to sleep. No OTC sleep meds work for me. Ambien Doesn't work. Insurance is fighting me on lunestra and they won't cover a sleep study

I don't know if this will help or not but they now make ZZZQuil which is basically Nyquil without the other medicine. My wife has been using it for about a week and it's been working great for her. I'm not a doctor, but it seems like this might be a better choice for you than Nyquil.


True it but its expensive...I still need to od on it and I'm paying much more...I can get nyquil for a buck a box (well knockoff) zzzquil is like ten bucks a box to sleep prob two or three nights compared to almost ten
 
2013-01-11 09:31:23 AM

sxacho: Silentbob768768: I take it to sleep. No OTC sleep meds work for me. Ambien Doesn't work. Insurance is fighting me on lunestra and they won't cover a sleep study

I don't know if this will help or not but they now make ZZZQuil which is basically Nyquil without the other medicine. My wife has been using it for about a week and it's been working great for her. I'm not a doctor, but it seems like this might be a better choice for you than Nyquil.


I also found I build up a resistance to zzzquil quicker than most drugs
 
2013-01-11 09:33:38 AM

here to help: Silentbob768768: It's been a few years and no negative affects that I've seen so far

The liver is a very resilient organ. It can take a serious pounding but once you cross over a certain threshold it'll f*ck up spectacularly. It can happen slowly over time then POW or you can just take too much one night and that will set it off. Once you are there you are in for a world of problems and if you think proper sleeping pills are expensive just wait until you have to start seeing liver/kidney specialists.
Frankly it sounds like you've become addicted.

Good luck... seriously.


Without insurance Lunestra was almost 400 bucks a Bottle I just can't afford that. I'm not addicted to the nyquil itself I just can sleep without something its been that way since I was a child.
 
2013-01-11 09:39:30 AM
Valium is pretty cheap. It's addictive as well but it doesn't kill your liver nearly as quickly.

However regular exercise, cutting out cigarettes, caffeine and alcohol and learning how to chill out a couple hours before bed is the best way. When it's getting close to bed spend a few hours reading a book. No TV, internet, etc...

Also I used to take an herbal sleeping pill blend that used to help quite a bit. It had valerian root and St John's wort with some other stuff. Ain't as good as chemical sleeping pills but it took the edge off enough to pass out.

Oh... and jerk off or something.
 
2013-01-11 09:41:38 AM

Silentbob768768: here to help: Silentbob768768: It's been a few years and no negative affects that I've seen so far

The liver is a very resilient organ. It can take a serious pounding but once you cross over a certain threshold it'll f*ck up spectacularly. It can happen slowly over time then POW or you can just take too much one night and that will set it off. Once you are there you are in for a world of problems and if you think proper sleeping pills are expensive just wait until you have to start seeing liver/kidney specialists.
Frankly it sounds like you've become addicted.

Good luck... seriously.

Without insurance Lunestra was almost 400 bucks a Bottle I just can't afford that. I'm not addicted to the nyquil itself I just can sleep without something its been that way since I was a child.


I'm not an insomniac but have you tried laying in bed with some hippy-dippy binauraul beat thing playing through a set of headphones? Supposedly the sounds can help your brainwaves to slow way down to the point where you fall asleep. They have some self-hypnosis-type things I've read about using this method.
 
2013-01-11 09:50:58 AM

here to help: Valium is pretty cheap. It's addictive as well but it doesn't kill your liver nearly as quickly.

However regular exercise, cutting out cigarettes, caffeine and alcohol and learning how to chill out a couple hours before bed is the best way. When it's getting close to bed spend a few hours reading a book. No TV, internet, etc...

Also I used to take an herbal sleeping pill blend that used to help quite a bit. It had valerian root and St John's wort with some other stuff. Ain't as good as chemical sleeping pills but it took the edge off enough to pass out.

Oh... and jerk off or something.


Valium never did much for me...I used to be into pills. As for the rest I don't have cable or watch tv and I run everynight shower then read
 
2013-01-11 09:52:08 AM

sxacho: Silentbob768768: here to help: Silentbob768768: It's been a few years and no negative affects that I've seen so far

The liver is a very resilient organ. It can take a serious pounding but once you cross over a certain threshold it'll f*ck up spectacularly. It can happen slowly over time then POW or you can just take too much one night and that will set it off. Once you are there you are in for a world of problems and if you think proper sleeping pills are expensive just wait until you have to start seeing liver/kidney specialists.
Frankly it sounds like you've become addicted.

Good luck... seriously.

Without insurance Lunestra was almost 400 bucks a Bottle I just can't afford that. I'm not addicted to the nyquil itself I just can sleep without something its been that way since I was a child.

I'm not an insomniac but have you tried laying in bed with some hippy-dippy binauraul beat thing playing through a set of headphones? Supposedly the sounds can help your brainwaves to slow way down to the point where you fall asleep. They have some self-hypnosis-type things I've read about using this method.


Haven't tried that. I usually keep a fan on for white noise
 
2013-01-11 10:04:03 AM

Silentbob768768: Valium never did much for me...I used to be into pills. As for the rest I don't have cable or watch tv and I run everynight shower then read


Okay... how about one of those Phillips Wake Up lights and/or increasing your vitamin D intake?

The light is supposed help reset your circadian rhythms to a normal schedule. I was a hopeless insomniac for years and was considering buying one but now I've got a big window in my bedroom (no curtains) so I wake up naturally with the sun now... which is basically what those light mimic. They are particularly good for shift workers who can't use the actual sun.
 
2013-01-11 10:23:46 AM

Silentbob768768: sxacho: Silentbob768768: I take it to sleep. No OTC sleep meds work for me. Ambien Doesn't work. Insurance is fighting me on lunestra and they won't cover a sleep study

I don't know if this will help or not but they now make ZZZQuil which is basically Nyquil without the other medicine. My wife has been using it for about a week and it's been working great for her. I'm not a doctor, but it seems like this might be a better choice for you than Nyquil.

I also found I build up a resistance to zzzquil quicker than most drugs


My wife takes either 2 pills of the diphenhydramine (25mg each), and that usually works within a hour or two, or half a pill of doxylamine (25mg pill) which works in about 20 minutes.

I just looked at my package of nyquil, and doxylamine is what they use, so there are generic brands out there. Just got to know what to look for. I just looked on Google shopping, and saw a package of 192 up for $12.
 
2013-01-11 10:32:07 AM

Silentbob768768: here to help: Valium is pretty cheap. It's addictive as well but it doesn't kill your liver nearly as quickly.

However regular exercise, cutting out cigarettes, caffeine and alcohol and learning how to chill out a couple hours before bed is the best way. When it's getting close to bed spend a few hours reading a book. No TV, internet, etc...

Also I used to take an herbal sleeping pill blend that used to help quite a bit. It had valerian root and St John's wort with some other stuff. Ain't as good as chemical sleeping pills but it took the edge off enough to pass out.

Oh... and jerk off or something.

Valium never did much for me...I used to be into pills. As for the rest I don't have cable or watch tv and I run everynight shower then read


Does running invigorate you? If so, it could add to your inability to sleep. Try changing your workout to the mornings. Also, avoid caffeine after your lunch break. In addition to caffeine, avoid any other ingredients that are associated with keeping you up, such as xanthines (like chocolate), niacin (or any b vitamin), taurine, or anything found in a monster drink or a 5-hour energy supplement. Of course, some of those are impossible to avoid entirely, because they're in our foods (like the b vitamins), but just avoid them in larger quantities.
 
2013-01-11 05:25:14 PM

Canton: /Kinda wondering whether White Tiger Balm would be worth trying. Hmmm.


I am late with this reply but a warning: be really really careful with that on the forehead. If you get it anywhere near the eyes, even the vapors, OH GOD THE BURN.
 
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