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(Tampa Bay Online)   Darwin shoots and scores   (www2.tbo.com) divider line 172
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18218 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jan 2013 at 11:51 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-10 02:24:42 PM  
FTFA: An 18-year-old man died when he put a gun to his head to show how safe it was...

To be fair, he did succeed in showing how safe it was
 
2013-01-10 02:27:07 PM  
From the comments on that site:

"This is actually a good case for putting weapons safety courses back in school. NRA's Eddie Eagle program would have saved this boy's life. But something like that would never make in to stream line media, way to smart and practical."
Is that what we're calling it now?
 
2013-01-10 02:29:38 PM  

Pincy: Valiente: Pincy: Valiente: ChipNASA: OMG....let's just go over this one.more.time.... Learned it in Basic Training......

DO NOT EVER POINT A WEAPON, LOADED OR UNLOADED (cause you never know) AT ANYTHING YOU DON'T INTEND TO KILL.
/ done

Good advice, but really, if you bother to check, you generally know. Guns aren't magical devices capable of materializing ammo in previously empty chambers. Well, outside of most action movies, anyway.

/ammo continuity is rarely observed.

Then by all means, please put an empty gun to your head every day and pull the trigger.

That is what we call a false analogy. If you check that the gun is empty, it's pointless to point the gun, like doing a pregnancy test on a woman in labour.

An unchecked gun cannot be verified as being empty. Playing with matches can led to burning. Gun control rhetoric put to one side for the moment, if you can't handle the physics involved, feel free to not check if the gun is loaded. It's a species-wide thumbs-up if people who can't follow a one-point (look for bullets in advancing chamber!) checklist ventilate their skulls.

/my brother-in-law is an ETF instructor and hunter. It ain't rocket surgery, but it does require good habits..

So your brother-in-law teaches his class that it's OK to point a gun at someone's head and pull the trigger if you are sure that it is not loaded?


No, he teaches that in order to know, you must check/verify/establish that a gun is either loaded or unloaded before pointing of any type may commence, and that said commencement should never be at anything you do not wish to shoot. Pretty straightforward, actually.

Man, you really want to point a gun at someone's head, dontcha?
 
2013-01-10 02:36:29 PM  

lordjupiter: way south: TheMysteriousStranger: But the simple reality remains that...

...for every time someone uses a gun for self-defense:

4 get shot accidentally
7 criminal uses.
11 suicide attempts.

Debatable statistics.
For every self defense shooting there are many more incidents were the suspect got spooked by the threat of force. Leaving very little paperwork.
Most people aren't stupid enough to check if a gun is loaded by looking down the barrel.

...Most people.

/There are only four big rules to safe gun use and this guy broke all of them.
/Treat gun as loaded, keep finger off trigger, never point at things you don't want to destroy, be aware of what's behind the target.
/You can't child proof the world for people like that.


Are there any stats for accidental discharges that luckily don't hurt anyone? Or gun crimes prevented because a gun wasn't available as easily as it could've been? Or shootings that happened because someone else had a gun, and the only reason someone shot was to avoid being shot first?

Because if we're going to look at unquantifiable, hypothetical, made up, "debatable" statistics using empirical data like "many more", and consider them proof of something...


I can say that a stop sign on the corner prevents accidents.
You say it doesn't and point to the lack of documentation as proof.

The proof is the increase in accidents that comes after you remove the sign.

dl.dropbox.com

If crimes-averted become millions documented incidents, the anecdotal evidence begins to matter a great deal.
/I assume you don't intend to take responsibility in such an event. You'll just ask for a stricter gun ban.
 
2013-01-10 02:49:14 PM  

david_gaithersburg: Bf+: Carn: david_gaithersburg: d23: Is this what the NRA means when they say it would be safer for EVERYONE to have a gun?

The biggest idiots and most careless will simply shoot themselves?

.
Well it would eliminate the progressive wing of the Democratic Party pretty quick.

LOL


Ah, another fine example of Republican humor.
Care to explain the joke and how, exactly, you considered it funny?

.
Please allow me to buy you an "assault weapon". We'll limit the magazine to one bullet.


Oh, grow a penis already.
 
2013-01-10 03:03:10 PM  

damndirtyape: nor ever had a negligent discharge.


That's not what your wife told me...
 
2013-01-10 03:13:06 PM  

YakiManiac: What's up with the joke about my dead mother jackass?


Let's dig her up and ask.
 
2013-01-10 03:15:42 PM  

lostcat: Is that the moment of orgasm for gun porn? When you accidentally blow your brains out with your prized possession?

Would this be considered exhibitionism?


Even better would be some Fully-Auto-Eroticism.
 
2013-01-10 03:16:41 PM  

lordjupiter: SlagginOff: This poor guy would still be alive if only all the other members of his family had guns.


Or if he'd been

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 447x296]


Oh, Lawdy-Lawd, he's desp'at! Do what he say, do what he saaaayyyy...
 
2013-01-10 03:19:16 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo:
There are 8-10 million accidental gun injuries annually in the United States?

...2-2.5 million people actually use a gun for self defense annually?


Depending on which study you cite, yes. The number is somewhere between 800,000 and 2.5 million. depending.
 
2013-01-10 03:25:40 PM  

YakiManiac: ChipNASA: YakiManiac: ChipNASA: OMG....let's just go over this one.more.time.... Learned it in Basic Training......

DO NOT EVER POINT A WEAPON, LOADED OR UNLOADED (cause you never know) AT ANYTHING YOU DON'T INTEND TO KILL.
/ done

Learned it at gun safety course when I was 13 years old - before I could receive my first gun from my gramps for my B-day - he took me himself every week - I sure do miss that old man

I hear all about the folks "B-b-b-b-bb-ut I checked it and it's unloaded"crowd. It's called "barrel discipline" (similar to trigger discipline) and it's a good habit to install as to *AVOID* accidents. Because accidental discharges *DO* happen and I'm not just talking about YOUR MOM.

What's up with the joke about my dead mother jackass?


Not *YOUR* specific Mom, jackass....a generic "YOUR MOM"...discharge joke.....

i.imgur.com

/Oh wait...let me get my sarcasm meter....PING!
 
2013-01-10 03:27:00 PM  

Civchic: TheMysteriousStranger:
[cdn.theatlantic.com image 550x425]

That map is telling. Low gun deaths = the very liberal areas, and the "traditional" hunting states. One has more people that don't own guns, one has gun safety from cradle to grave.

High gun deaths - yahoos.

Just speaking stereotypically here.


Yeah...looks kind of familiar, doesn't it?

i218.photobucket.com

i218.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-10 03:27:52 PM  

Click Click D'oh: The All-Powerful Atheismo:
There are 8-10 million accidental gun injuries annually in the United States?

...2-2.5 million people actually use a gun for self defense annually?

Depending on which study you cite, yes. The number is somewhere between 800,000 and 2.5 million. depending.


Except no, that's factually false. The HIGHEST estimated numbers are just above 1 million.
 
2013-01-10 03:40:02 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo:

Except no, that's factually false. The HIGHEST estimated numbers are just above 1 million.


You know, you really shouldn't say something that can be very easily refuted.

Note, the lowest number is 770,000 the highest is 3.6 million.

So... I guess I was wrong... I was 1 Million short..
 
2013-01-10 04:12:30 PM  

Click Click D'oh: The All-Powerful Atheismo:

Except no, that's factually false. The HIGHEST estimated numbers are just above 1 million.

You know, you really shouldn't say something that can be very easily refuted.

Note, the lowest number is 770,000 the highest is 3.6 million.

So... I guess I was wrong... I was 1 Million short..


Oh my bad, you were talking about surveys from 1976 while I was talking about the year the rest of us actually are living in now.
 
2013-01-10 04:32:19 PM  
Whatever the number is, add one more to it.
 
2013-01-10 04:33:49 PM  

PainInTheASP: Civchic: TheMysteriousStranger:
[cdn.theatlantic.com image 550x425]

That map is telling. Low gun deaths = the very liberal areas, and the "traditional" hunting states. One has more people that don't own guns, one has gun safety from cradle to grave.

High gun deaths - yahoos.

Just speaking stereotypically here.

Yeah...looks kind of familiar, doesn't it?

[i218.photobucket.com image 550x425]

[i218.photobucket.com image 504x350]


huh.. a map of the USA DOES look like a map of the USA..

thats farking amazing!
 
2013-01-10 04:59:15 PM  

way south: lordjupiter: way south: TheMysteriousStranger: But the simple reality remains that...

...for every time someone uses a gun for self-defense:

4 get shot accidentally
7 criminal uses.
11 suicide attempts.

Debatable statistics.
For every self defense shooting there are many more incidents were the suspect got spooked by the threat of force. Leaving very little paperwork.
Most people aren't stupid enough to check if a gun is loaded by looking down the barrel.

...Most people.

/There are only four big rules to safe gun use and this guy broke all of them.
/Treat gun as loaded, keep finger off trigger, never point at things you don't want to destroy, be aware of what's behind the target.
/You can't child proof the world for people like that.


Are there any stats for accidental discharges that luckily don't hurt anyone? Or gun crimes prevented because a gun wasn't available as easily as it could've been? Or shootings that happened because someone else had a gun, and the only reason someone shot was to avoid being shot first?

Because if we're going to look at unquantifiable, hypothetical, made up, "debatable" statistics using empirical data like "many more", and consider them proof of something...

I can say that a stop sign on the corner prevents accidents.
You say it doesn't and point to the lack of documentation as proof.

The proof is the increase in accidents that comes after you remove the sign.

[dl.dropbox.com image 552x361]

If crimes-averted become millions documented incidents, the anecdotal evidence begins to matter a great deal.
/I assume you don't intend to take responsibility in such an event. You'll just ask for a stricter gun ban.


No, that's correlation not causation. And your nifty graph, like every one I've seen a million times in these debates, leaves out a wealth of relevant information that goes along with the stats that are being abused.

Nothing new here.
 
2013-01-10 06:35:49 PM  

lordjupiter: way south: lordjupiter: way south: TheMysteriousStranger: But the simple reality remains that...

...for every time someone uses a gun for self-defense:

4 get shot accidentally
7 criminal uses.
11 suicide attempts.

Debatable statistics.
For every self defense shooting there are many more incidents were the suspect got spooked by the threat of force. Leaving very little paperwork.
Most people aren't stupid enough to check if a gun is loaded by looking down the barrel.

...Most people.

/There are only four big rules to safe gun use and this guy broke all of them.
/Treat gun as loaded, keep finger off trigger, never point at things you don't want to destroy, be aware of what's behind the target.
/You can't child proof the world for people like that.


Are there any stats for accidental discharges that luckily don't hurt anyone? Or gun crimes prevented because a gun wasn't available as easily as it could've been? Or shootings that happened because someone else had a gun, and the only reason someone shot was to avoid being shot first?

Because if we're going to look at unquantifiable, hypothetical, made up, "debatable" statistics using empirical data like "many more", and consider them proof of something...

I can say that a stop sign on the corner prevents accidents.
You say it doesn't and point to the lack of documentation as proof.

The proof is the increase in accidents that comes after you remove the sign.

[dl.dropbox.com image 552x361]

If crimes-averted become millions documented incidents, the anecdotal evidence begins to matter a great deal.
/I assume you don't intend to take responsibility in such an event. You'll just ask for a stricter gun ban.

No, that's correlation not causation. And your nifty graph, like every one I've seen a million times in these debates, leaves out a wealth of relevant information that goes along with the stats that are being abused.

Nothing new here.


It's close enough for illustration purposes.
The predicted result of gun control is that murders should go down, and instead (in this example) they went up. The logical conclusion should be that gun control wasn't the silver bullet supporters claimed it would be.
The response I predict is that supporters of these laws will deny the statistics and propose more gun control.

Is that your intention if the results of new efforts do not meet expectations?
 
2013-01-10 08:26:56 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: So can we at least agree that some level of mandatory training should be required for people that wish to own guns?


Gun licensing should be like car licensing, only stricter.
Required written and practical tests. A graduated system depending on the type of weapon. Bans for medical conditions. Special insurance. Re-registration with a fee each year.
 
2013-01-10 09:34:11 PM  

whatshisname: HotWingConspiracy: So can we at least agree that some level of mandatory training should be required for people that wish to own guns?

Gun licensing should be like car licensing, only stricter.
Required written and practical tests. A graduated system depending on the type of weapon. Bans for medical conditions. Special insurance. Re-registration with a fee each year.


Then, by that same reasoning, such a license should allow me to carry any registered firearm in a usable condition when in public, and the license should be honoured in all fifty states.
 
2013-01-11 12:54:57 AM  

TheMysteriousStranger: damndirtyape: Pincy: I think we should encourage all gun nuts to prove just how safe their guns are.

I do, every day for the last 20+ years. Never shot anyone including myself nor ever had a negligent discharge.

Yeah, and for every person who handles it safely, there is an idiot. Do you really want some of the drivers you've seen on the road with guns. Or maybe you never had people drive towards you going the wrong way on a one-way road.

But then again, you might have just been lucky. The dead man thought he was safe. And most idiots with guns don't die by them or kill someone with them. So saying that you are not dead is not very meaningful.

But the simple reality remains that...

...for every time someone uses a gun for self-defense:

4 get shot accidentally
7 criminal uses.
11 suicide attempts.

Chuck Darwin is winning big time.

[cdn.theatlantic.com image 550x425]


Fair enough, but I take precautions to make sure I'm not one of the 4 or the 7, and I feel mentally stable enough not to be one of the 11.
 
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