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(Sports Illustrated)   CONFIRMED: Junior Seau suffered from Dave Duersonitis   (sportsillustrated.cnn.com) divider line 35
    More: Followup, Junior Seau, CTE, brain diseases, chronic traumatic encephalopathy, NFL  
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1155 clicks; posted to Sports » on 10 Jan 2013 at 2:21 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-10 12:11:24 PM  
Not good. Not good at all.
 
2013-01-10 02:23:59 PM  
Talk about a no-win situation. Seriously. Sadness all around.
 
2013-01-10 02:25:29 PM  
Sad, but there is good news: Shanahan has cleared him to play.
 
2013-01-10 02:26:21 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: Sad, but there is good news: Shanahan has cleared him to play.


And we're done here.
 
2013-01-10 02:28:43 PM  

RickyWilliams'sBong: AliceBToklasLives: Sad, but there is good news: Shanahan has cleared him to play.

And we're done here.

 
2013-01-10 02:30:18 PM  
I can see this chipping away at tackle football on the top end over time. Tackle already suffers at the youth level as the NFL pushes FNL everywhere for the soccer moms that want less violence and commitment(instead of 5 nights a week for August and 3 nights from Sept to Dec it's 1 practice and 1 game a week for a few months). This will only add to it, though the problems these guys have aren't ones that you're going to get from a few years of youth football(there aren't any 300 pound musclebound beasts running 4.4 40s in Pop Warner). Smaller input on the bottom end means smaller output on the top end.
 
2013-01-10 02:32:46 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: Sad, but there is good news: Shanahan has cleared him to play.


Oh shiat son. That made me laugh out loud at work. Solid.
 
2013-01-10 02:36:58 PM  
As long as the Lingerie Football League is found safer...
 
2013-01-10 02:41:14 PM  
no, he died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. not every suicide by a football player is from head trauma. let's not break out the jump to conclusion mat quite yet. all that said, it's clear that playing tackle football for many years is not a healthy life choice.

/can we at least ban it for children under 14? you know while the brain and skull are even more fragile.
 
2013-01-10 02:46:29 PM  

A Fark Handle: /can we at least ban it for children under 14? you know while the brain and skull are even more fragile.


The difference is that they don't have the force of a fully developed adult. If you ever watch 8 year olds play tackle football, you'll see that they're much safer than the 25 year olds from that
 
2013-01-10 02:46:39 PM  

bhcompy: I can see this chipping away at tackle football on the top end over time. Tackle already suffers at the youth level as the NFL pushes FNL everywhere for the soccer moms that want less violence and commitment(instead of 5 nights a week for August and 3 nights from Sept to Dec it's 1 practice and 1 game a week for a few months). This will only add to it, though the problems these guys have aren't ones that you're going to get from a few years of youth football(there aren't any 300 pound musclebound beasts running 4.4 40s in Pop Warner). Smaller input on the bottom end means smaller output on the top end.


Future generations will remember the NFL's golden age much in the same way people discuss boxing's heyday. Nothing lasts forever, and the NFL has a real problem on its hands.
 
2013-01-10 02:47:49 PM  

bhcompy: I can see this chipping away at tackle football on the top end over time. Tackle already suffers at the youth level as the NFL pushes FNL everywhere for the soccer moms that want less violence and commitment(instead of 5 nights a week for August and 3 nights from Sept to Dec it's 1 practice and 1 game a week for a few months). This will only add to it, though the problems these guys have aren't ones that you're going to get from a few years of youth football(there aren't any 300 pound musclebound beasts running 4.4 40s in Pop Warner). Smaller input on the bottom end means smaller output on the top end.


yeah, but the kids in pop warner still have developing brains and skulls. personally, i think it should be flag football until high school. they have seen cte in young college kids, so clearly it starts developing before the nfl. and don't underestimate the future impact of increasing liability insurance premiums schools might face if they choose to keep football once there's enough evidence. americans love their lawsuits and insurance companies hate to lose money.
/what i find interesting is we're pretend we didn't know this for the last 40 years. the public just ignored it.
//we wanted our gladiator games...
 
2013-01-10 02:50:43 PM  

bhcompy: A Fark Handle: /can we at least ban it for children under 14? you know while the brain and skull are even more fragile.

The difference is that they don't have the force of a fully developed adult. If you ever watch 8 year olds play tackle football, you'll see that they're much safer than the 25 year olds from that


You seem to not understand CTE...

bhcompy: Tackle already suffers at the youth level as the NFL pushes FNL everywhere for the soccer moms that want less violence


Yeah, fark kids.. They should fark up their brains for our entertainment..
 
2013-01-10 03:12:31 PM  

Farksteron: You seem to not understand CTE...


It's from repeated traumatic impacts. The impacts are much less traumatic until the players develop physically
 
2013-01-10 03:24:19 PM  

A Fark Handle: /what i find interesting is we're pretend we didn't know this for the last 40 years. the public just ignored it.
//we wanted our gladiator games...


I didn't know about it growing up in the 80s/90s - I didn't ignore anything. I did play a lot of football (nothing beyond HS, only intermurals in college) - too be honest I am pretty scared about this even at the level I played. I was a RB and my head got smashed a lot, or in football speak "I got my bell rung" - I have small memory issues already and raging headaches and I hope it is all just coincidence. I think we are going to see a lot more people of my generation (late 30s now) that suffer similar problems, I played football for hours on end almost every day in the fall and winter for years - it can't be good - such is life, it's been a good run, oh look a spider - what was I talking about again?
 
2013-01-10 03:24:23 PM  

bhcompy: It's from repeated traumatic impacts. The impacts are much less traumatic until the players develop physically


You seem to not understand CTE...
 
2013-01-10 03:37:12 PM  
Damn.
 
2013-01-10 03:42:31 PM  
Maybe if someone taught him proper tackling technique and not to lead with the head...
 
2013-01-10 03:49:06 PM  
I've said it since Seau offed himself...if he was found to have CTE, for better or worse, HIS death would be a major game-changer (no pun intended). There are already drops in the numbers of participants for Pop Warner tackle divisions and I believe this diagnosis will further those declining numbers...not tomorrow, but sooner than many people want to believe. Pop Warner leagues already pay HUGE liability insurance premiums and they will only go higher. High schools too, I believe, will begin seriously looking at football when they have to start writing huge checks to the insurance companies for coverage. And finally, every year, despite most high school coaches best efforts, a few kids drop dead from heat exhaustion/asthma/pre-existing conditions, whatever, one of these days, some 18yo, top recruit stud is going to wind up being one of those statistics and somebody is going to decide to check his brain...if they find any trace of CTE with him? Game over....

/most is highlighted because I know there are still knucklehead coaches out there that think drinking water is for pussies and asthma attacks are for the weak, but still, any coach worth his salt is pretty well versed in these things nowadays
 
2013-01-10 03:53:31 PM  

p the boiler: A Fark Handle: /what i find interesting is we're pretend we didn't know this for the last 40 years. the public just ignored it.
//we wanted our gladiator games...

I didn't know about it growing up in the 80s/90s - I didn't ignore anything. I did play a lot of football (nothing beyond HS, only intermurals in college) - too be honest I am pretty scared about this even at the level I played. I was a RB and my head got smashed a lot, or in football speak "I got my bell rung" - I have small memory issues already and raging headaches and I hope it is all just coincidence. I think we are going to see a lot more people of my generation (late 30s now) that suffer similar problems, I played football for hours on end almost every day in the fall and winter for years - it can't be good - such is life, it's been a good run, oh look a spider - what was I talking about again?


perhaps it depends on the group you ran in, but hasn't exactly been a secret since about forever that repeat hits to the head were probably not safe. sure we didn't have scientific proof, but for years some parents have told their children they can't play football or box because of the potential for brain injury. there were enough old broken players and boxers around (well until they died young) to hint at something. to me the modern concussion debate mirrors the cigarette debate. overwhelming evidence wasn't available at first, but there was a lot of circumstantial and anecdotal evidence around. it will be interesting to see how the research about at what ages or for how long does it take for playing football to increase players' risk of [something bad]. because if there's substantial increase risk even for those who stopped after high school, then you're right that there's huge potential future burden considering the number of high school players.

also, i wonder how much of this could be because of the better equipment. a better helmet can make the immediate penalty for leading with your helmet much less, but your brain is still bouncing around inside your skull. helmets don't prevent physics.
 
2013-01-10 04:07:40 PM  

bhcompy: It's from repeated traumatic impacts. The impacts are much less traumatic until the players develop physically


No, it's from repeated impacts. They don't have to be traumatic at all.
 
2013-01-10 04:35:12 PM  

A Fark Handle: no, he died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. not every suicide by a football player is from head trauma. let's not break out the jump to conclusion mat quite yet. all that said, it's clear that playing tackle football for many years is not a healthy life choice.

/can we at least ban it for children under 14? you know while the brain and skull are even more fragile.


You didn't read the article, did you?
 
2013-01-10 04:35:53 PM  
I was annoyed that another article I read said that he got CTE from "20 years of playing in the NFL", as if it didn't start before then. This article doesn't, but it's unfair to pin it all on the NFL. It starts as soon as the kids play. It would be more helpful if they could find some sort of test to do before someone dies, then they could really do research. Right now, just looking at the brain after someone has died leads to a lot of speculation and conjectures about a condition science actually doesn't know much about.
 
2013-01-10 04:53:07 PM  
"...the findings on Seau were similar to autopsies of people "with exposure to repetitive head injuries."

So, is this bad research or bad reporting? I find it obvious that someone who strikes others with, and is repeatedly struck in, his head was found to have exposure to repeated head injuries. I would expect that you'd find this on a huge amount of football players and boxers. Does that mean they all have CTE? Or, does CTE only develop in a smaller percentage of those who have repeated head injuries?
 
2013-01-10 04:59:26 PM  

MugzyBrown: bhcompy: It's from repeated traumatic impacts. The impacts are much less traumatic until the players develop physically

No, it's from repeated impacts. They don't have to be traumatic at all.


The T in CTE stands for Traumatic. And, of course, the description from Boston University, which is the leading group studying CTE, states that it appears in people that receive repetitive traumatic brain injuries, including concussions and what they call "asymptomatic sub-concussive hits". Purdue measured it in G-force, and the people most likely to display signs of brain injury were those taking consistent +40g subconcussive hits to the head, which is a force that requires a great deal of energy, something that an 8 year old playing Pop Warner isn't going to display.
 
2013-01-10 07:12:25 PM  

A Fark Handle: p the boiler: A Fark Handle: /what i find interesting is we're pretend we didn't know this for the last 40 years. the public just ignored it.
//we wanted our gladiator games...

I didn't know about it growing up in the 80s/90s - I didn't ignore anything. I did play a lot of football (nothing beyond HS, only intermurals in college) - too be honest I am pretty scared about this even at the level I played. I was a RB and my head got smashed a lot, or in football speak "I got my bell rung" - I have small memory issues already and raging headaches and I hope it is all just coincidence. I think we are going to see a lot more people of my generation (late 30s now) that suffer similar problems, I played football for hours on end almost every day in the fall and winter for years - it can't be good - such is life, it's been a good run, oh look a spider - what was I talking about again?

perhaps it depends on the group you ran in, but hasn't exactly been a secret since about forever that repeat hits to the head were probably not safe. sure we didn't have scientific proof, but for years some parents have told their children they can't play football or box because of the potential for brain injury. there were enough old broken players and boxers around (well until they died young) to hint at something. to me the modern concussion debate mirrors the cigarette debate. overwhelming evidence wasn't available at first, but there was a lot of circumstantial and anecdotal evidence around. it will be interesting to see how the research about at what ages or for how long does it take for playing football to increase players' risk of [something bad]. because if there's substantial increase risk even for those who stopped after high school, then you're right that there's huge potential future burden considering the number of high school players.

also, i wonder how much of this could be because of the better equipment. a better helmet can make the immediate penalty for leading with ...


better equipment is the reason why guys are getting their brains blown out in the first place, placing all player safety in better equipment is always going to backfire

it'll probably take changes to the way the game itself is played, maybe even removing positions from offenses and defenses, but the league is too afraid to disturb the money pot they've got going for them even if the teams themselves would find new ways to win and keep butts in seats
 
2013-01-10 08:23:27 PM  

bhcompy: MugzyBrown: bhcompy: It's from repeated traumatic impacts. The impacts are much less traumatic until the players develop physically

No, it's from repeated impacts. They don't have to be traumatic at all.

The T in CTE stands for Traumatic


That's nice... Except that trauma in this context terms means that it is a medical physical injury. It doesn't mean that something is extreme, disturbing, distressing, etc. In other words, a traumatic injury can occur from accidents that might look like a normal or typical event without being a mentally traumatic or disturbing event to the witnesses.

Once more: a traumatic injury (physical) does not necessarily mean that it was created by a "traumatic injury" (mentally disturbing to watch).

If you cant understand the problem, maybe you played too much football as a kid :D

/ or maybe I didn't explain myself correctly
// but that's impossible
/// as I am perfect
 
2013-01-10 09:09:47 PM  

Farksteron: bhcompy: MugzyBrown: bhcompy: It's from repeated traumatic impacts. The impacts are much less traumatic until the players develop physically

No, it's from repeated impacts. They don't have to be traumatic at all.

The T in CTE stands for Traumatic

That's nice... Except that trauma in this context terms means that it is a medical physical injury. It doesn't mean that something is extreme, disturbing, distressing, etc. In other words, a traumatic injury can occur from accidents that might look like a normal or typical event without being a mentally traumatic or disturbing event to the witnesses.

Once more: a traumatic injury (physical) does not necessarily mean that it was created by a "traumatic injury" (mentally disturbing to watch).

If you cant understand the problem, maybe you played too much football as a kid :D

/ or maybe I didn't explain myself correctly
// but that's impossible
/// as I am perfect


Wow - that was like when a woman explains away being wrong.

Painful and embarrassing.

On topic - count me in the camp of former PW and HS player that won't allow my 4 year old son to play.
 
2013-01-10 10:15:50 PM  

A Fark Handle: p the boiler: A Fark Handle: /what i find interesting is we're pretend we didn't know this for the last 40 years. the public just ignored it.
//we wanted our gladiator games...

I didn't know about it growing up in the 80s/90s - I didn't ignore anything. I did play a lot of football (nothing beyond HS, only intermurals in college) - too be honest I am pretty scared about this even at the level I played. I was a RB and my head got smashed a lot, or in football speak "I got my bell rung" - I have small memory issues already and raging headaches and I hope it is all just coincidence. I think we are going to see a lot more people of my generation (late 30s now) that suffer similar problems, I played football for hours on end almost every day in the fall and winter for years - it can't be good - such is life, it's been a good run, oh look a spider - what was I talking about again?

perhaps it depends on the group you ran in, but hasn't exactly been a secret since about forever that repeat hits to the head were probably not safe. sure we didn't have scientific proof, but for years some parents have told their children they can't play football or box because of the potential for brain injury. there were enough old broken players and boxers around (well until they died young) to hint at something. to me the modern concussion debate mirrors the cigarette debate. overwhelming evidence wasn't available at first, but there was a lot of circumstantial and anecdotal evidence around. it will be interesting to see how the research about at what ages or for how long does it take for playing football to increase players' risk of [something bad]. because if there's substantial increase risk even for those who stopped after high school, then you're right that there's huge potential future burden considering the number of high school players.

also, i wonder how much of this could be because of the better equipment. a better helmet can make the immediate penalty for leading with ...


Not that I necessarily disagree, but the fear of brain damage and the like that people were afraid of in the past was primarily one big hit that caused immediatly, permanent damage, if I recall correctly. The new information points toward a succession of hits having a massive cumulative effect on long term mental and physical health.

Basically, moms tended to be worried that their little boy would be kill on the field while they watched. Less concern was had about potential problems 20+ years down the road. People are ill-equiped to think that far ahead, as a rule.
 
2013-01-10 11:51:31 PM  
Surprised I'm not.

Look, if you take repeated blows to the piece that controls your body, damage will be done. That's Ric Romero at its finest.

The NHL had to deal with this recently with Boogard (sp) and the other two who died within a close proximity to each other. "Head hits and fighting in hockey are bad". "Head hits in the NFL are bad".

I would concur that the majority of brain-mush injuries occur when the over-crazy parents of these kids force them to continue to play when they are obviously hurt.

CSB time:

This one kid I played Junior hockey with was a pretty damn good player, could have gone on to at least play in the AHL, possibly the NHL who knows. He was about 5'5" 150 at the time. He was coming down the ice and he got his clock cleaned, about as bad as I've ever seen. It made the Savard and Horton hits look like love taps.

After the hit, the kid stumbled his way to the bench, he knew he was farked. His father came running across the rink to the bench and hit his own son in the head with repeated slaps screaming, "you need to get back in there you farking pussy".

Needless to say the kid went back in against the wishes of the coach, and got nailed again the next shift. Bad.

He has eaten steamed carrots as his main meal every day since then.


My point is, at the pro-level it is made aware, but it starts far sooner; like a scumbag father pushing his kid to be a star and support the family because dad could only manage to become the manager at the local K-Mart and mom is on SSI. The blame shouldn't fall upon the major sports for facilitating this type of lifestyle, but it should on the parents who think they can run their kids ragged at the risk of mental retardation for the slight chance he could get a contract with a pro team.

Money is and will always be the biggest whore in every and all sports.

That is the problem.
 
2013-01-11 12:05:09 AM  

Neeek: Not that I necessarily disagree, but the fear of brain damage and the like that people were afraid of in the past was primarily one big hit that caused immediate, permanent damage, if I recall correctly. The new information points toward a succession of hits having a massive cumulative effect on long term mental and physical health.

Basically, moms tended to be worried that their little boy would be kill on the field while they watched. Less concern was had about potential problems 20+ years down the road. People are ill-equiped to think that far ahead, as a rule.


true i do think a lot of the old fear was of the one serious blow, but the fact that multiple concussion could be bad isn't that new and i think was a warning sign that was ignored. i do believe the extended time frame allowed for a believe in safety in several important ways. first the retired boxers and football players hadn't just played through high school or college age, so it was easier (if you were trying to convince yourself that it was safe) to believe that it was because those guys continued getting hit throughout their lives that they had problems. (thought process: a few years of hits, no biggie. 20 years some by other elite hitters equals trouble.) also the delay onset for the repetitive head trauma potential symptoms masks the potential relationship. if a 35 to 40-year-old former college player is depressed maybe it's just his job, wife, etc. if a 45-year-old is forgetting things, well maybe that's just something that happens, or he drank a lot in his 30s, or he's like his uncle just absent minded. as you say, folks don't see on the 20 year horizon well.
 
2013-01-11 07:37:05 AM  
i137.photobucket.com

Coming soon....
 
2013-01-11 01:36:41 PM  

MugzyBrown: bhcompy: It's from repeated traumatic impacts. The impacts are much less traumatic until the players develop physically

No, it's from repeated impacts. They don't have to be traumatic at all.


thisbearsrepeating.jpg

& scares the crap right out of me cause even though i didn't play football, i've had enough knocks to the head from other activities (skiing , biking , car wrecks) that it is certainly concerning

or i'm just being a big pussy
 
rka
2013-01-11 03:20:25 PM  

A Fark Handle: perhaps it depends on the group you ran in, but hasn't exactly been a secret since about forever that repeat hits to the head were probably not safe.


Yes, but everyone "knew" that it was the big hits that caused the problems. The ones you could actually say "He got his bell rung" or definitely say were concussions. Solution? Outlaw head shots! Teach proper tackling! Easy-peasy!

The reality isn't so clear cut. Simply playing american football, block after block, tackle after tackle, snap after snap, is enough to cause brain damage.
 
2013-01-11 07:37:52 PM  

marleymaniac: Maybe if someone taught him proper tackling technique and not to lead with the head...


Bingo.
 
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