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(Gawker)   America is still number one where it counts: obesity, STDs, and dying young. USA USA USA   (gawker.com) divider line 116
    More: Sad, United States, lung disease, obesity, infant mortality, family practices, Virginia Commonwealth University, great spot  
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4138 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jan 2013 at 11:04 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-10 01:58:06 PM  

The Larch: DerAppie: The Larch: DerAppie: Yep, just a while ago I read about this town where they had hardly any murder, but suicide was incredibly prevalent. It turned out that if you died after making "funny" remarks to ethnic groups or just walking in certain parts of town then they marked.it as suicide.

I read about that exact same town. It was a Harlan Ellison fictional short story, right?

Nope, it wasn't a Harlan Ellsion fictional short story.

Was it J G Ballard? I bet you're describing a J G Ballard fictional short story.

Or maybe I'm thinking of some of the older dystopian science fiction. Are you talking about those fictional towns in the Lovecraft stories?

Don't keep me in suspense! What was the name of the town?


Ankh-Morpork.

Ordering a short in a dwarf bar is suicide. And where the sun doesn't shine is the shade -> stay out of the Shades.
 
2013-01-10 02:44:03 PM  

pedrop357: kgf: Capitalism is not a bad thing in and of itself, but left to run its course without restriction it will always result in a few rich and a lot of poor. We've been down this road before in the 1800's, which is why we have so many laws that "make it so difficult to do business" like anti-trust laws.

Just my opinion, but I think it's a good one. Fire away.

When was the last time it ran its course without restriction?


2008. See also "subprime loan crisis," "housing bubble," "Lehman Bros. Inc."
 
2013-01-10 03:00:35 PM  

DerAppie: The Larch: DerAppie: The Larch: DerAppie: Yep, just a while ago I read about this town where they had hardly any murder, but suicide was incredibly prevalent. It turned out that if you died after making "funny" remarks to ethnic groups or just walking in certain parts of town then they marked.it as suicide.

I read about that exact same town. It was a Harlan Ellison fictional short story, right?

Nope, it wasn't a Harlan Ellsion fictional short story.

Was it J G Ballard? I bet you're describing a J G Ballard fictional short story.

Or maybe I'm thinking of some of the older dystopian science fiction. Are you talking about those fictional towns in the Lovecraft stories?

Don't keep me in suspense! What was the name of the town?

Ankh-Morpork.

Ordering a short in a dwarf bar is suicide. And where the sun doesn't shine is the shade -> stay out of the Shades.


I love you for this reference.
 
2013-01-10 03:36:34 PM  
It's like winning #1 Party University but for a whole country.
 
2013-01-10 04:15:22 PM  

TheHighlandHowler: Freedom has its costs.


Came for this. Probably the biggest cost is forgetting the role of responsibility in the cost of that freedom, although one could make the connection from one's first hangover.
 
2013-01-10 04:47:06 PM  
I was going to post a link to a more solemn (and objective) article on this same report published yesterday on Science Daily's website.

The point I wish to emphasize (and which should be compared with the comments in the article thread and here on Fark) is that the report establishes once again that

* even if you are male
* even if you are white
* even if you are a fully-employed, well-paid professional or executive working with a good corporation with good benefits
* even if you have good health insurance
* even if you do not smoke
* even if you do not drink or do drugs
* even if you are not obese
* even if you are in the prime of life and the prime of your earning years

and so forth, through a long list of caveats, the American is less healthy than people in these other high-income countries

* even though they are not over-medicated
* even though even Canadians don't pay half as much for health care as Americans do
* even though they are not over-tested on fancy expensive MRI and other machines that go ping
* even though wait times for some procedures and treatments are longer

The US does have a lot of poor people and disproportionately they are non-white. But even the Man is sickly.

There is no simple explanation for why Americans are less healthy than Europeans. Maybe it is because they are immigrants to a new and hostile Continent. Maybe it is largely a matter of culture (i.e, of Southerners and Westerners against the more European North Easterners).

There's not a world of difference between the US-Canada border States and Provinces. And in fact, their health care systems and results are much closer together, as are their life expectancies. But in some ways Alberta is more liberal than Massachusetts and New Brunswick a Hell of a lot less conservative than Louisiana or even Maine (both Maine and New Brunswick are about 35% French by ancestry, by the way).

and so forth.

In short, left wing and right wing and centrist Americans alike tend to blame factors which, although they admitedly add to the health problems of Americans, fail to totally explain away the difference in health outcomes in the USA and the rest of the wealthy world.

In other words, this report, like many before it, takes into consideration many factors such as poverty, race, ethnicity, education, etc. AND WHEN THEY HAVE ALL BEEN ELIMINATED, AMERICANS STILL DO WORSE.

There have been studies which compared well-to-do. well-educated professional white males in the US and Canada, the US and the UK, etc. And the Americans still have worse health.

There have been studies which eliminate the obese, the smokers, gun violence, drugs, etc. And the Americans still have worse health.

No doubt each of these factors contribute to the ill-health of some people. I am white and male, but I am overweight and a touch asthmatic or possibly have a touch of COPD from exposure to other people's smoking and to wood furnaces and fireplaces and stoves as a child. Compare me to a similar American, matching each of these factors, and the American will lose.

This has been true for a long time apparently. Visitors to the US noted that Americans were pallid, over-worked, rushed and sickly looking--in the early 1800s. Perhaps there are forms of stress which Americans create for themselves which can't easily be attributed to race, income, wealth or ethnicity. Perhaps Americans are just a bit more driven. But comparisons of such things as leisure, workaholism, productivity and such are ambiguous. Even though they have long vacations and take them, the French and Germans tend to put in the hours and buckle down hard during the shorter period of time they work. They produce a bit less, perhaps, but many Europeans work just as hard as Americans and when you adjust the populations to match in such terms, the Europeans are still healthier.

I must emphasize that explanations based on poverty and such are employed by both American liberals and conservatives, and both are more or less equally wrong in believing that poverty is a key factor. The evidence does not show that any one factor is determinant. You can compare people of equal status and income, intelligence and productivity and there is a gap. There is always a gap, although naturally it is much smaller if you eliminate a lot of the factors.

Wealthy White Americans are way richer and have way better life chances than poor non-white Americans, and they are even richer and inherit far more privilege and status and well-being than rich white Europeans or Canadians. The GINI coefficient and the Great Gatsby Curve (look that up) point to greater inequality in America than in Canada, less opportunities for social or economic advancement (although it is the US that has the myth of Opportunity and Entreprenuerialism). But that alone can not explain what is wrong with America's health. Because, although a couple of US states have life expectancies as good or slightly better than Canada as a whole (note Canada has poor areas and poor people as well as the US), Canadians as a whole still do better than Americans as a whole, even without the blacks, even without the illegals or the native Hispanics, even without the dirt poor hillbillies and the urban underclass.

I can list quite a number of reforms which would probably help equalize American health with the rest of the rich world. You need to reform medicare, medicaid and a lot of other welfare programmes. You need to equalize outcomes (economic, political, and social as well as medical) more. You need to be more like Europe or Canada or Australia if you want to have the same results.

But it is certainly not a simple and clear-cut problem, and your politics are part of the problem, not the solution.
 
2013-01-10 05:02:00 PM  
Too much advertising.

Every ad for a drug or treatment lists a long list of possible side-effects. This list always includes all of the symptoms of the disease or disorder being treated. It always includes death. In fact, it includes everything they think you might ever sue them for.

Clearly this means that every disease or disorder has all of the symptoms of every other disease and disorder, and that the medicine to cure the disease replicates this list of symptoms perfectly.

The more medicine they try to sell you on TV, the sicker you are.

In fact, America may be the only country in the world where you can die of hypochondria without having any disease or treatment at all.
 
2013-01-10 05:54:43 PM  

brantgoose: ... words ...


Well, damn. Now I'm depressed.
 
2013-01-10 06:12:24 PM  
Health care should be expensive and shoddy for poor people, and high-quality and free for the rich. Otherwise, there's no incentive to improve yourself, and we encourage laziness.
 
2013-01-10 06:48:46 PM  

Rindred: 2008. See also "subprime loan crisis," "housing bubble," "Lehman Bros. Inc."


There were tons of restrictions and enabling regulations for everything that happened.

I like this idea on both sides that somehow the Democrats and Republicans who passed the laws, embraced the regulations, and were happy to have that extra tax money had nothing whatsoever to do with what happened and now blame the "unconstrained market".
 
2013-01-10 10:48:29 PM  
Health care is business. All health care facilities are businesses trying to make a profit. So they do recommend more things to build profit. But another angle is that medical malpractice lawsuits usually give out extremely high sums. So doctors and other practitioners practice defensive medicine rather than preventative medicine. They order extra testing and alert you to possible health issues, however minute, to avoid lawsuits and to get money.
 
2013-01-10 11:06:22 PM  
Anybody know how we rank on mass murderers and serial killers?
 
2013-01-10 11:08:55 PM  

albertalaska: Anybody know how we rank on mass murderers and serial killers?


Is there a time frame, and is the government ineligible? If no and no, then Stalin and Hitler are contenders.
 
2013-01-11 01:48:18 AM  
yeah, but you gotta take into account the demographics that bring our average way down. i bet if you corrected the US stats for demographics then you would get much better numbers. of course, you would have to change this into a more serious conversation to do it. alot of people would get mad and offended.
 
2013-01-11 10:14:13 AM  

brantgoose: I was going to post a link to a more solemn (and objective) article on this same report published yesterday on Science Daily's website.



Thanks! Interesting read.

May I suggest another article for you that might help explain Japan's seemingly incredible lifespan?

More than 230,000 elderly people in Japan who are listed as being aged 100 or over are unaccounted for, officials said following a nationwide inquiry.

An audit of family registries was launched last month after the remains of the man thought to be Tokyo's oldest were found at his family home.

Relatives are accused of fraudulently receiving his pension for decades.

Officials have found that hundreds of the missing would be at least 150 years old if still alive.


Link
 
2013-01-11 02:11:39 PM  

computerguyUT: Well, that's simple! Just have your lord and master O-butthole ban Obeisity, Dying youg, and STD's. Even better if it's through prezudemtial degree.

Problum solvified.

DEHUUURRRR...

MOAR OBEISE STD RIDDEN DEAD YOUNG PEOPLE!.... DEHURRRRR.....



Your technique is far more annoying than amusing. You didn't even pick a side of the "argument" in your completely inarticulate abortion of an attempt at parody.

I bet your house smells like a combination of mildew, ammonia and chicken grease.
 
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