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(The Daily Beast)   To understand how extraordinary this obsession with Israel is, just imagine the uproar if any senator raised objections to a US cabinet nominee over, say their "commitment" to Canada, France or Turkey   (andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com) divider line 370
    More: Obvious, Turkey  
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7206 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jan 2013 at 11:10 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-10 11:25:36 AM  
www.smarter.org

Don't bother clicking here, nothing will happen...
 
2013-01-10 11:25:52 AM  
Unless I'm mistaken, it's pretty much the right wing who's obsessed with Israel, and they have this goofy habit of conflating 'Netanyahu' and 'Likud' with 'Israel' ... right?

So, if the Repub party implodes like we're hoping it will and we get to the point where people are ashamed to admit in public that they used to be Teabaggers ... problem solved?
 
2013-01-10 11:25:59 AM  

Gulper Eel: Canada, France and Turkey aren't surrounded by countries who want to wipe them off the face of the earth.


Not untrue but Israel's situation isn't especially unique, and we don't treat other nations in the same situation with that same consideration.

You're forgetting how useful the IDF is in field testing next generation military hardware etc. I'm sure that at first guilt over letting the Holocaust happen may have played a part in our early foreign policy with them but these days pragmatism (or at least what a lot of policymakers feel is the more pragmatic approach) rules our policy with Israel.

Bear in mind I don't necessarily agree that this is all a good idea, or at least I wouldn't mind if the IDF/Israel in general wasn't so gungho about using physical force and were more interested in diplomacy (one party needs to be the "bigger man" here, might as well be the one that has the same gear our dudes use).
 
2013-01-10 11:26:04 AM  

Zeno-25: [i.imgur.com image 720x540]


They're off by a factor of 10, and almost all of it is spent here, at defense contractors.
 
2013-01-10 11:26:42 AM  
Okay, since I'm too lazy to dig but still care to know, is Hagel's Jewish position:

A. He supports giving them money and materiel consistently, but is offended that such a tiny minority holds so much sway that any criticism of any action of Israel (settlement building, slum bombardment, etc...) is off limits

OR

B. He supports giving them money and materiel consistently, but they're still damn, dirty Jews that run Hollywood and have ruined everything.

I know he's supported them with legislation, it is the "Israel critic" versus "I hate Jews" position that needs clarification for me.
 
2013-01-10 11:26:55 AM  
And she questions their commitment to Sparkle Motion.

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-10 11:27:03 AM  

vernonFL: I am a Zionist, I believe the Jewish people should have their own country.


The most sensible place by far to establish a Jewish state following WW2 would have been Florida.
 
2013-01-10 11:27:23 AM  

pag1107: You guys are all way off base, it has way more to do with pandering to a religious group for votes than actually protecting any other nations.


i216.photobucket.com

Obama got 69% of the Jewish vote.
It must not be working.
 
2013-01-10 11:28:04 AM  

tallguywithglasseson: That it's laughable a nomination might be scuttled (and the nominee be called racist in the process) for past criticism of South Korean policy and lobbying power... kind of supports the point. Not sure if that's what you were trying to do.


Um, not if the person making the comment is a sworn enemy of South Korea, he might have the same credibility problems as Electronic Intifada, for example.
 
2013-01-10 11:28:24 AM  
We also weren't part of a group that created Canada, Frnace or Turkey out of thin air.
 
2013-01-10 11:28:39 AM  

farkingatwork: uh, there are arab jews. about 50-75% of jews are arabs. That's why it's so ridiculous that they want to treat the country as an enemy and/or different when they're basically all the same people with the same hereditary background.


Before the aliyahs, the jewish (sephardim/mizrahim) population was less than 10% of the total, and the ashkenazi population (the zionists at the time) was ca 0%.
 
2013-01-10 11:29:20 AM  
If that person put the interest of Canada, France, or Turkey ahead of the US, then yes, that's a major farking problem.
 
2013-01-10 11:29:33 AM  

Gulper Eel: Canada, France and Turkey aren't surrounded by countries who want to wipe them off the face of the earth.


Israel has nukes. No one is going to wipe them off the map anytime soon.

Furthermore, this isn't our problem. We only support Israel because bronze age death cultists think it's necessary in order to have the second coming and the end of days.
 
2013-01-10 11:29:37 AM  
Good idea. Giving Jews money.
They won't ask for more.
 
2013-01-10 11:29:57 AM  
i49.tinypic.com
 
2013-01-10 11:30:17 AM  

tricycleracer: iheartscotch: We gave ( and continue to give) the Israelies their country, unlimited funds and unlimited access to men, material and technology; what else could they possibly want?

I just realized that they're playing Command & Conquer with all the cheat codes on and the still can't win.


Wellll... I'd say, rather, that they are playing Total War with all of the cheat codes; but, they allied themselves with a very powerful, but extremely internally contentious country early on. The effect being; they can't attack people without their ally sending them strongly worded letters or threatening to cut the support they give.

/ actually happened to me once when I played Empire- Total War
 
2013-01-10 11:31:30 AM  

give me doughnuts: If they could finally push all the Egyptian and Jordanian squatters


i.imgur.com


I doubt it. The vast majority of people there, generations after generation are descended from the people that lived there under Ottoman regional rule--known as Palestinians.Deporting the few with Jordanian or Egyptian citizenship wouldn't help.

 
2013-01-10 11:31:34 AM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: I'm often told, "But they're our ally in the Middle East," to which I always wonder how, exactly, they help us in any way. Does the presence of our friend Israel mean I get cheap gas? No? Do they supply us with anything other than a bunch of Arabs who are mad at us for giving aid to Israel, and a bunch of espionage attempts? No? Then fark 'em.


Resupply port for the 6th Fleet. Logistical and maintenance support for other U.S. forces in the Middle East. Joint training exercises. Technical collaberation on weapons systems.
 
2013-01-10 11:32:52 AM  
Just to posit a thought experiment, if Bibi and the Likud lost the next election in a wave of public disgust, a new coalition government was assembled based on reopening the Oslo Accords, and their first act was to start dismantling settlements in the West Bank, how many of the Farkers crying "Electronic Intifada!" here would suddenly fall silent or, indeed, start screaming loudly that Israel had lost its way and we should withdraw all support?
 
2013-01-10 11:34:14 AM  

halfof33: Um, not if the person making the comment is a sworn enemy of South Korea, he might have the same credibility problems as Electronic Intifada, for example.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Abunimah
He's a sworn enemy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Intifada
Having a pro-Palestinian stance = no credibility?
What about the countless numbers of organizations with pro-Isreal stances, do they likewise lack credibility on this issue?
Or is it that only pro-Israel perspectives are credible?
 
2013-01-10 11:34:20 AM  

doubled99: Answer: You kick their ass in a war. Like we did. And just about every other nation did at one time or another.


Exactly; you invade and make your living space space on the conquered land ...and that's why their neighbors hate them.
 
2013-01-10 11:34:34 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: [o.onionstatic.com image 600x411]


Lord above, you sure named yourself correctly
 
2013-01-10 11:35:14 AM  

Incog_Neeto: Go U.S.A never stop sucking that sweet sweet Isreali cock.



Hey, Israel is the Rothschild's baby, and they happen to hold the mortgage on the United States of America.

Show some respect.
 
2013-01-10 11:35:21 AM  

people: tallguywithglasseson: Interesting tidbit, from link in TFA, Elliott Abrams from the Council on Foreign Relations went all in on NPR and said Hagel is an anti-Semite. That's what you get for not supporting "our" family.

http://mondoweiss.net/2013/01/elliott-abrams-semite.html

The follow-up makes that bit even more ridiculous

But Abrams wrote in his book Faith or Fear (1997)
Outside the land of Israel, there can be no doubt that Jews, faithful to the covenant between God and Abraham, are to stand apart from the nation in which they live. It is the very nature of being Jewish to be apart-except in Israel-from the rest of the population....



There is still much for us to learn about being an Anti-Semite vs. not being an Anti-Semite as instructed by Fark Jews™ but I would guess it would not be Kosher for a gentile to make that same observation (how does someone that thinks like that get a US security clearance?). If one of us gentiles were to say that, would we be instructed it is a "that old canard" that anti-semites run out? And would noticing that make one a "viscious anti-semite" or a "vile anti-semite"?
 
2013-01-10 11:35:29 AM  

Banned on the Run: Obama got 69% of the Jewish vote.


Money Money Mooonaay.

Commentary
Text on mondoweiss
Estimates of the amount of money Jews have donated to American politicians, parties, and causes are even less accurate than the loose estimates of Jewish votes, but there is little question that the figure is staggering. It is impossible to determine precisely the grand total contributed to only presidential candidates by individual Jewish donors, but it may well be as much or more than one third of all Democratic money and a lesser though still impressive percentage of the funds raised by Republicans


Washington Post
Democratic candidates depend on Jewish supporters to supply as much as 60 percent of the money raised from private sources. Any significant reduction in the financial support will weaken Democratic candidates and the Democratic Party organizations.

Jerusaem Post

Jewish Telegraph Agency
Where the Jews stand on Obama matters not just because of the Jewish vote, which is significant in key swing states such as Florida, Pennsylvania and Ohio, but also because of Jewish money. The 2012 presidential election will be the first since a Supreme Court ruling allowing unlimited corporate giving to candidates. The Obama campaign has said it will need more money than ever because big business tends to lean Republican.

Obama captured 78 percent of the Jewish vote in 2008, and estimates over the years have reckoned that Jewish donors provide between one-third and two-thirds of the party's money.
Podhoretz
Where it matters-where Obama's team is clearly worried and where it is seeking to come up with counterarguments to give to surrogates-is money. It's one thing to cast a single vote as the member of a small minority community to which outsized attention is paid. But Jews are uncommonly generous givers, both philanthropically and politically, and while they might still cast a vote for Obama, they might give him nothing. Or half what they gave him in 2008.
 
2013-01-10 11:35:29 AM  

david_gaithersburg: If that person put the interest of Canada, France, or Turkey ahead of the US, then yes, that's a major farking problem.


Yes, because that is clearly what is happening.
 
2013-01-10 11:36:26 AM  
'Quote For The Day' from Ali Abunimah of Electronic Intifada ? oh man. This is brilliant. They should be asking about "the Arab obsession with Israel and Arabs' incessant blaming of the Jews for everything that's wrong in their world".
 
2013-01-10 11:36:40 AM  

Uncle Tractor

doubled99: Answer: You kick their ass in a war. Like we did. And just about every other nation did at one time or another.

Exactly; you invade and make your living space space on the conquered land ...and that's why their neighbors hate them.


So you understand. Then why the naive question?
 
2013-01-10 11:37:13 AM  

Clemkadidlefark: Lord above, you sure named yourself correctly


A. He's not in power, 2. That's a pretty obvious Onion graphic and III. pot, meet kettle.
 
2013-01-10 11:37:35 AM  
We should use this dialogue as an opportunity...

We continue aid as we have done before for Israel if they will enjoin the Jewish people to tip at least 15% in our restaurants.
 
2013-01-10 11:39:05 AM  

doubled99: Yeah, those countries you named are all useless. Unlike Israel.


As I said to my ex "You say that now, but by this time next year you'll begging for my soft wood!"
 
2013-01-10 11:39:54 AM  
It's because they need the temple to be re-built in Jerusalem before Jesus can come back.

I swear to God I think this is the underlying reason.
 
2013-01-10 11:40:02 AM  
Am I right in assuming that all supporters of a Jewish state are also supporters of a Kurdish state?
 
2013-01-10 11:40:30 AM  
It's so nice to see that "Jews are rich bankers who control the world's economy" is still a thing people believe.

// not all of you
// but enough that I occasionally want to move back to Israel
// paranoia strikes deep...
 
2013-01-10 11:41:24 AM  

Agarista: Am I right in assuming that all supporters of a Jewish state are also supporters of a Kurdish state?


That depends, do they love Jesus?
 
2013-01-10 11:41:36 AM  
Religion's a hell of a drug, subby.
 
2013-01-10 11:41:40 AM  

pag1107: You guys are all way off base, it has way more to do with pandering to a religious group for votes than actually protecting any other nations.


Exactly. Evangelical Christians are a paranoid death cult that are praying for the day that their messiah to comes back and destroys the world. And somehow, they're convinced that by supporting Israel, they will convince their crazy and capricious god to being the complete and total annihilation of the world a little earlier.

It is sad that American politics are so heavily influenced by a delusional warlike death cult, but there you go. You have to live with reality.
 
2013-01-10 11:42:46 AM  

ph0rk: Agarista: Am I right in assuming that all supporters of a Jewish state are also supporters of a Kurdish state?

That depends, do they love Jesus?


about equally...
 
2013-01-10 11:43:09 AM  

vernonFL: I am a Zionist, I believe the Jewish people should have their own country.



Why?

Zionism has brought nothing but trouble to Jews and Gentiles alike - especially in the region.

The goal of the (largely secular) Zionists in creating the "Jewish State" was not to protect Jews from "anti-Semitism", but to prevent Jews from assimilation.

The latter being the perceived as the greater "threat", by far.
 
2013-01-10 11:43:20 AM  

vernonFL: I am a Zionist, I believe the Jewish people should have their own country.

That being said, Israel today is a shameful apartheid state and I don't want my money supporting the current Israeli regime.


I believe my stepson should have his own place to live.

That being said, I'm disgusted with the little idiot and am not about to put him up in my house or pay his rent.

/that, and I'm cheap
 
2013-01-10 11:43:43 AM  

Pincy: pag1107: You guys are all way off base, it has way more to do with pandering to a religious group for votes than actually protecting any other nations.

THIS


this again.

interesting-im posting this from my kindle paperwhite. it works. just no gifs.
i farking love this reader. shattered my phone screen so i thought I'd try. i can still use the phone though.
yes i know nobody cares.
 
2013-01-10 11:44:00 AM  

tallguywithglasseson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Abunimah
He's a sworn enemy? IWAS TALKING ABOUT OF ISRAEL (and maybe indulged in a wee bit of hyperbole, so shoot me)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Intifada
Having a pro-Palestinian stance = no credibility?

CREDIBILITY PROBLEM ON TOPICS OF USA INVOLVEMENT IN ISRAEL

What about the countless numbers of organizations with pro-Isreal stances, do they likewise lack credibility on this issue?

YES CREDIBILITY PROBLEM ON TOPICS OF USA INVOLVEMENT IN ISRAEL
?


In other words, I'd take a what either says with a big grain of salt. Thanks for asking!
 
2013-01-10 11:44:28 AM  
Israel is a US ally. Israel is opposed by the same people who oppose America. Israel is under ongoing threat. That is why the questions are germane
 
2013-01-10 11:45:05 AM  
i have a problem with any theocracy - be it israel, iran, saudi arabia or the republican vision for the united states.
 
2013-01-10 11:45:11 AM  

Crotchrocket Slim: Bear in mind



i141.photobucket.com
No thanks!
 
2013-01-10 11:45:25 AM  

Dr Dreidel: It's so nice to see that "Jews are rich bankers who control the world's economy" is still a thing people believe.


Hyperbole.

Rich? Yes. Give a lot of money to US election campaigns? Yes.
 
2013-01-10 11:46:27 AM  
Serious question for the historians and political scientists here (if any):

Are there any historical precedents for a tiny nation exerting so much influence over both the internal and external policies of an almost infinitely larger and more powerful nation?
 
2013-01-10 11:47:27 AM  

give me doughnuts: Resupply port for the 6th Fleet. Logistical and maintenance support for other U.S. forces in the Middle East. Joint training exercises. Technical collaberation on weapons systems.


Those don't strike me as particularly compelling reasons. There's lots of other ports in the Med. I don't know that a good answer to "why do we do stuff with them" is "because they do joint training exercises with us".
 
2013-01-10 11:47:38 AM  
Young Jewish liberals don't believe AIPAC really exists (its a fictional conspiracy cabal dreamed up by deluded anti-semites). Congress votes the way it does because of all those knuckle dragging End of Times Christians.

No, really, this is what they believe!

westernrifleshooters.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-01-10 11:47:46 AM  

Vectron: people: tallguywithglasseson: Interesting tidbit, from link in TFA, Elliott Abrams from the Council on Foreign Relations went all in on NPR and said Hagel is an anti-Semite. That's what you get for not supporting "our" family.

http://mondoweiss.net/2013/01/elliott-abrams-semite.html

The follow-up makes that bit even more ridiculous

But Abrams wrote in his book Faith or Fear (1997)
Outside the land of Israel, there can be no doubt that Jews, faithful to the covenant between God and Abraham, are to stand apart from the nation in which they live. It is the very nature of being Jewish to be apart-except in Israel-from the rest of the population....


There is still much for us to learn about being an Anti-Semite vs. not being an Anti-Semite as instructed by Fark Jews™ but I would guess it would not be Kosher for a gentile to make that same observation (how does someone that thinks like that get a US security clearance?). If one of us gentiles were to say that, would we be instructed it is a "that old canard" that anti-semites run out? And would noticing that make one a "viscious anti-semite" or a "vile anti-semite"?



Yes.
 
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