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(IGN)   WTF is this?? Just give us a new console already   (ign.com) divider line 118
    More: Asinine, Microsoft, Ces, IllumiRoom, universe, software visualization  
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13350 clicks; posted to Geek » on 10 Jan 2013 at 10:10 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-10 08:29:31 AM
One more step closer to the holy grail - the holodeck.
 
2013-01-10 09:34:28 AM
Looked kind of fun to me.
 
2013-01-10 09:45:45 AM
I still have trouble with anything more sophisticated than a 2D scroll-screen.  This would probably make me hurl my cookies.

Looks like a blast, though.
 
2013-01-10 09:46:24 AM

Cythraul: One more step closer to the holy grail - the holodeck.

 
2013-01-10 09:47:10 AM
Say what you want subby, but that looks pretty sweet to me. (Can we just have that and a new console?)
 
2013-01-10 10:15:05 AM
That looks pretty cool, would compliment my triple-screen gaming PC quite nicely...nifty!
 
2013-01-10 10:17:06 AM
That actually looks like it might be kind of annoying.
 
2013-01-10 10:22:08 AM

Cythraul: One more step closer to the holy grail - the holodeck.


or the wall screen from Fahrenheit 451
 
2013-01-10 10:22:10 AM

ThatGuyGreg: Cythraul: One more step closer to the holy grail - the holodeck.


It's been said before but the worst job is Star Fleet has to be the mop guy assigned to the holodecks
 
2013-01-10 10:22:10 AM
That would only be enjoyable with glow sticks and while wearing glitter covered butterfly wings.
 
2013-01-10 10:26:07 AM
Subby, when both Microsoft and Sony said the earliest you'd see the next console on store shelves would be 2015 at the earliest; why did you think they weren't being honest? They individually sank billions in to R&D.

Neither console has turned sufficient profit to pay for the next ones R&D yet, unless you want the '720' & PS4 to be the exact same specs with very minor bumps in RAM and GPU. But you're probably one of the people that pshaw'd Nintendo for doing that exact same thing with the WiiU.
 
2013-01-10 10:26:41 AM
Subby, what do you honestly think it was all about...

Jesus wept...
 
2013-01-10 10:27:58 AM
Cool, and why do they need a new console the 360 still works great, has an unbelievable library of games and the only advance I can think of is 3D not someting i desire in a video game.
 
2013-01-10 10:30:44 AM
The effect would have been more impressive ifthey didnt have those damn shelving units mucking up the picture. Imagine how this might look in a room dedicated just to it. holodeck. yeah like someone already said. Why the fark do we need a new console when we can just do awesomer things with the console we already have subtard?
 
2013-01-10 10:33:58 AM
I would have liked to have seen where the projector was setup for this to work properly. I would guess that this would be somewhat tricky to setup, and in some people's rooms, nearly impossible to make it look right at all.

Other than that, I thought it looked pretty cool. I would love to play that while smoking or taking hallucinogens.
 
2013-01-10 10:37:52 AM

Tom_Slick: Cool, and why do they need a new console the 360 still works great, has an unbelievable library of games and the only advance I can think of is 3D not someting i desire in a video game.


Not subby, but the 360 is 8 years old. Developers can do a lot more now with game design but are restrained by nearly decade old limitations.

That and it has reached market saturation. Year over year sales of video games have dropped for the last couple of years as the market has become stagnant.

I'll be playing my backlog for years, but unless you want to see further contraction with game developers, then there needs to be fresh blood in the market.
 
2013-01-10 10:46:06 AM
I dunno.. I thought it looked pretty badass..
 
2013-01-10 10:46:22 AM
This would be awesome for raves!

And gaming.
 
2013-01-10 10:48:03 AM

Lumbar Puncture: Tom_Slick: Cool, and why do they need a new console the 360 still works great, has an unbelievable library of games and the only advance I can think of is 3D not someting i desire in a video game.

Not subby, but the 360 is 8 years old. Developers can do a lot more now with game design but are restrained by nearly decade old limitations.

That and it has reached market saturation. Year over year sales of video games have dropped for the last couple of years as the market has become stagnant.

I'll be playing my backlog for years, but unless you want to see further contraction with game developers, then there needs to be fresh blood in the market.


I just don't understand why developers need any more hardware power. Is anyone complaining that some and such video game sucked because it wasn't pushing enough polygons? We are well into the area of diminishing returns on processing power impacting game enjoyment.
 
2013-01-10 10:51:04 AM
i thought it looked pretty cool... now I just need a way to plug this into my computer.
 
2013-01-10 10:58:04 AM

JRaynor: ThatGuyGreg: Cythraul: One more step closer to the holy grail - the holodeck.

It's been said before but the worst job is Star Fleet has to be the mop guy assigned to the holodecks


Meh, after I wrote the Sterilize H program it became easy. Sorry about Ensign O'Neil though, stupid kid should never have hacked my password.
 
2013-01-10 10:58:17 AM

Tommy Moo: Lumbar Puncture: Tom_Slick: Cool, and why do they need a new console the 360 still works great, has an unbelievable library of games and the only advance I can think of is 3D not someting i desire in a video game.

Not subby, but the 360 is 8 years old. Developers can do a lot more now with game design but are restrained by nearly decade old limitations.

That and it has reached market saturation. Year over year sales of video games have dropped for the last couple of years as the market has become stagnant.

I'll be playing my backlog for years, but unless you want to see further contraction with game developers, then there needs to be fresh blood in the market.

I just don't understand why developers need any more hardware power. Is anyone complaining that some and such video game sucked because it wasn't pushing enough polygons? We are well into the area of diminishing returns on processing power impacting game enjoyment.


resolution. almost no 360 game renders at 1920x1080.

and there is still lots of room to go up with graphics.

/join the glorious master race
 
2013-01-10 10:58:20 AM
Valve's on it, subby:
www.extremetech.com
/hot
 
2013-01-10 11:00:29 AM

Cythraul: One more step closer to the holy grail - the holodeck.


www.nbc.com

Abed is still farther along.
 
2013-01-10 11:01:40 AM

SuperT: Tommy Moo: Lumbar Puncture: Tom_Slick: Cool, and why do they need a new console the 360 still works great, has an unbelievable library of games and the only advance I can think of is 3D not someting i desire in a video game.

Not subby, but the 360 is 8 years old. Developers can do a lot more now with game design but are restrained by nearly decade old limitations.

That and it has reached market saturation. Year over year sales of video games have dropped for the last couple of years as the market has become stagnant.

I'll be playing my backlog for years, but unless you want to see further contraction with game developers, then there needs to be fresh blood in the market.

I just don't understand why developers need any more hardware power. Is anyone complaining that some and such video game sucked because it wasn't pushing enough polygons? We are well into the area of diminishing returns on processing power impacting game enjoyment.

resolution. almost no 360 game renders at 1920x1080.

and there is still lots of room to go up with graphics.

/join the glorious master race



Also, locked at 30fps for most console games.

I got AC3 for Christmas for the ps3. I never use my PS3 anymore, and playing that was brutal. Reminds me of CRT monitors when you have the refresh rate set at 30Hz.
 
2013-01-10 11:02:34 AM

Tommy Moo: Lumbar Puncture: Tom_Slick: Cool, and why do they need a new console the 360 still works great, has an unbelievable library of games and the only advance I can think of is 3D not someting i desire in a video game.

Not subby, but the 360 is 8 years old. Developers can do a lot more now with game design but are restrained by nearly decade old limitations.

That and it has reached market saturation. Year over year sales of video games have dropped for the last couple of years as the market has become stagnant.

I'll be playing my backlog for years, but unless you want to see further contraction with game developers, then there needs to be fresh blood in the market.

I just don't understand why developers need any more hardware power. Is anyone complaining that some and such video game sucked because it wasn't pushing enough polygons? We are well into the area of diminishing returns on processing power impacting game enjoyment.



I'm complaining about it. With so many (if not most) games now being released on three platforms (PC, PS3 and Xbox) the consoles' old hardware has slowed down the advancement of graphics in games in general. The PC I've had for years now still utterly demolishes the specs required to run any game out there and graphics have not significantly increased in complexity for years now because of the effect the old console hardware is having on the market.

I'm sick of it, but the only way it's going to change is if the Xbox and/or Playstation get a significant hardware update.
 
2013-01-10 11:05:00 AM

Tommy Moo: I just don't understand why developers need any more hardware power. Is anyone complaining that some and such video game sucked because it wasn't pushing enough polygons? We are well into the area of diminishing returns on processing power impacting game enjoyment.


One simple example is the processing required for the Kinect device. They're currently limited by the CPU capibility of the console, largely limiting the detection to major skeletal frame elements (hips, knees, elbows). The current Kinect hardware on a standard PC can bump up to seeing skeletal details like individual fingers.

Current development shows a high likelihood of simultaneously quadrupling Kinect sensor detail, and doubling the sensor elements (giving true stereoscopic views of rooms and increasing player counts to 4). This single change requires a huge boost in processing power. We're talking about tens of thousands single 3D IR points, mapping a room constantly, differentiating separate users by facial recognition and voice, along with acoustical mapping and microphone sound canceling.

Then you step into GPU bumps for processing 4K and 4K 3D rendering, and possible user "augmentation" glasses to further increase game environments and technology shown in this video to expand the display environment to encompass the whole room.

They spend roughly $5 billion a year on dedicated research for stuff like this. My former college roommate works in these divisions at MS. According to him about this latest info, "This is fun stuff, but what we're working on blows this projection tech out of the water."
 
2013-01-10 11:05:11 AM
You morons realize that virtual reality is the absolute utter endgame of this medium, right? The problem is that, as David Wong has pointed out (and leave it to a Cracked writer to "get it"), the entire history of video games has been funded by the casual consumer's interest in the novelty of video games, and we're now approaching a stopgap where half-decade increases in consumer technology don't yield anything resembling novelty.  (This is why Nintendo put their money on Nintendo DS: The Game Console.)  The next generation of game consoles is simply going to be prettier than the last one, and even though the last half-decade has featured plenty of games that couldn't have been done on the last generation of hardware (Bayonetta, Vanquish, God of War 3, countless open-world games with gigantic landscapes, Serious Sam 3, the Uncharted games, Dead Rising, Crackdown), they were largely viewed as an extension of PlayStation 2 and PC concepts.  I don't think anyone knows what is the intermediary video game technology that finances the technologies that get to the holodeck.  Unless you think the sheer amount of money and technology being invested in mobile phones are providing that funding.
 
2013-01-10 11:07:41 AM

aelat: SuperT: Tommy Moo: Lumbar Puncture: Tom_Slick: Cool, and why do they need a new console the 360 still works great, has an unbelievable library of games and the only advance I can think of is 3D not someting i desire in a video game.

Not subby, but the 360 is 8 years old. Developers can do a lot more now with game design but are restrained by nearly decade old limitations.

That and it has reached market saturation. Year over year sales of video games have dropped for the last couple of years as the market has become stagnant.

I'll be playing my backlog for years, but unless you want to see further contraction with game developers, then there needs to be fresh blood in the market.

I just don't understand why developers need any more hardware power. Is anyone complaining that some and such video game sucked because it wasn't pushing enough polygons? We are well into the area of diminishing returns on processing power impacting game enjoyment.

resolution. almost no 360 game renders at 1920x1080.

and there is still lots of room to go up with graphics.

/join the glorious master race


Also, locked at 30fps for most console games.

I got AC3 for Christmas for the ps3. I never use my PS3 anymore, and playing that was brutal. Reminds me of CRT monitors when you have the refresh rate set at 30Hz.


What kind of TV do you have? I haven't experienced anything like that. But I have a plasma screen; so Hz don't really enter into the equation. Just curious on my part.
 
2013-01-10 11:11:33 AM
I guess I'll stop liking what you don't like subby.
 
2013-01-10 11:11:50 AM

Vaneshi: Subby, when both Microsoft and Sony said the earliest you'd see the next console on store shelves would be 2015 at the earliest; why did you think they weren't being honest? They individually sank billions in to R&D.

Neither console has turned sufficient profit to pay for the next ones R&D yet, unless you want the '720' & PS4 to be the exact same specs with very minor bumps in RAM and GPU. But you're probably one of the people that pshaw'd Nintendo for doing that exact same thing with the WiiU.


Do they have internet where you live? Or have you just been in a coma or something?
 
2013-01-10 11:12:00 AM

Vaneshi: Subby, when both Microsoft and Sony said the earliest you'd see the next console on store shelves would be 2015 at the earliest; why did you think they weren't being honest? They individually sank billions in to R&D.



Because they have started releasing rumors about the consoles coming out this year, maybe?
 
2013-01-10 11:12:59 AM

Tom_Slick: Cool, and why do they need a new console the 360 still works great, has an unbelievable library of games and the only advance I can think of is 3D not someting i desire in a video game.


The 360 can do 3D. See Black Ops.

I would guess "Illumaroom" is like a reverse Kinect, with a projector added. You'd need the IR sensors to determine the room's 3D layout and project at whatever angle the unit is at. Setup wouldn't be that big of a problem - mount it to a wall behind the primary place where the player sits.
 
2013-01-10 11:22:27 AM

TheOriginalEd: Why the fark do we need a new console when we can just do awesomer things with the console we already have subtard?


The problem is add-ons don't work well with consoles. Look at e failures of the Sega CD, Sega 32X, and the Nintendo 64DD. Yes, the kinect has bucked the trend, but are there really any good games for normal gamers to play or just gimmick games?

I don't agree that a new console is needed but Microsoft would have to further delay the next generation for themselves unless they want to piss off those who adopted this addon. Sega did that with the 32X and the Sega Saturn.
 
2013-01-10 11:22:41 AM

Slaves2Darkness: JRaynor: ThatGuyGreg: Cythraul: One more step closer to the holy grail - the holodeck.

It's been said before but the worst job is Star Fleet has to be the mop guy assigned to the holodecks

Meh, after I wrote the Sterilize H program it became easy. Sorry about Ensign O'Neil though, stupid kid should never have hacked my password.


If a female star fleet officer went into the holodeck, turned the safeties off, and had mad mad monkey sex with a hologram... could she get preggo???
 
2013-01-10 11:23:45 AM
Since I just got a Wii-U, I really hope this generation goes on for at least two more years.
 
2013-01-10 11:26:37 AM
i.stack.imgur.com

Closer. Good.
 
2013-01-10 11:31:26 AM

Vaneshi: Subby, when both Microsoft and Sony said the earliest you'd see the next console on store shelves would be 2015 at the earliest; why did you think they weren't being honest? They individually sank billions in to R&D.

Neither console has turned sufficient profit to pay for the next ones R&D yet, unless you want the '720' & PS4 to be the exact same specs with very minor bumps in RAM and GPU. But you're probably one of the people that pshaw'd Nintendo for doing that exact same thing with the WiiU.


What? what on earth gave you that idea? A 10 year lifecycle doesn't mean no console for years, it just means guaranteed support.

Hell, sony just not ended production of the ps2, 12 years later.
 
2013-01-10 11:36:50 AM

SuperT: Tommy Moo: Lumbar Puncture: Tom_Slick: Cool, and why do they need a new console the 360 still works great, has an unbelievable library of games and the only advance I can think of is 3D not someting i desire in a video game.

Not subby, but the 360 is 8 years old. Developers can do a lot more now with game design but are restrained by nearly decade old limitations.

That and it has reached market saturation. Year over year sales of video games have dropped for the last couple of years as the market has become stagnant.

I'll be playing my backlog for years, but unless you want to see further contraction with game developers, then there needs to be fresh blood in the market.

I just don't understand why developers need any more hardware power. Is anyone complaining that some and such video game sucked because it wasn't pushing enough polygons? We are well into the area of diminishing returns on processing power impacting game enjoyment.

resolution. almost no 360 game renders at 1920x1080.

and there is still lots of room to go up with graphics.

/join the glorious master race


Yep. Toss in better lighting, textures, and 1080p 3d at least, as well as larger, more detailed stages, more actors on screen, better physics, sound, etc. You can still do quite a lot to push games, and most benefits from a refresh of the consoles.
 
2013-01-10 11:37:08 AM

Vaneshi: Subby, when both Microsoft and Sony said the earliest you'd see the next console on store shelves would be 2015 at the earliest; why did you think they weren't being honest? They individually sank billions in to R&D.

Neither console has turned sufficient profit to pay for the next ones R&D yet, unless you want the '720' & PS4 to be the exact same specs with very minor bumps in RAM and GPU. But you're probably one of the people that pshaw'd Nintendo for doing that exact same thing with the WiiU.


4/10, would lol again
 
2013-01-10 11:37:59 AM

TheOriginalEd: The effect would have been more impressive ifthey didnt have those damn shelving units mucking up the picture. Imagine how this might look in a room dedicated just to it.


farm4.staticflickr.com
What a room dedicated to it may look like.

Seriously, this is a projector without a screen plus a regular TV in the middle so that you can get a decent image in the center of your view. You could also just use a giant projection screen. In fact, I have one with an 11' diagonal, and it's awesome for gaming.

... that said, this is actually kind of interesting, in that:
(i) since the damn shelving units are mucking up the picture and you've got the TV for high-resolution in the middle, you can significantly reduce your resolution on the projector part and cover a large area with low-polygon particle effects without affecting frame rate;
(ii) by first modeling the room and warping the projected image accordingly, stuff can "flow" onto the floor and ceiling while maintaining proper perspective, which would add to the immersion;
(iii) by using a camera and projecting an image of the wall onto the wall, they can do that effect shown in the video where your actual living room and all the objects in it appear to recoil slightly with every gunshot or impact.

I think it's pretty slick, honestly. Though I want a new console, too.
 
2013-01-10 11:40:01 AM
Damn it. I just painted my room dark to improve contrast with my projector and now the visual version of surround sound comes out.
 
2013-01-10 11:43:35 AM

SuperT: Tommy Moo: Lumbar Puncture: Tom_Slick: Cool, and why do they need a new console the 360 still works great, has an unbelievable library of games and the only advance I can think of is 3D not someting i desire in a video game.

Not subby, but the 360 is 8 years old. Developers can do a lot more now with game design but are restrained by nearly decade old limitations.

That and it has reached market saturation. Year over year sales of video games have dropped for the last couple of years as the market has become stagnant.

I'll be playing my backlog for years, but unless you want to see further contraction with game developers, then there needs to be fresh blood in the market.

I just don't understand why developers need any more hardware power. Is anyone complaining that some and such video game sucked because it wasn't pushing enough polygons? We are well into the area of diminishing returns on processing power impacting game enjoyment.

resolution. almost no 360 game renders at 1920x1080.

and there is still lots of room to go up with graphics.

/join the glorious master race



THIS.

It's very noticeable on a large screen.
 
2013-01-10 11:43:52 AM
Unless you have a theater quality projector throwing that image on your walls, it's going to look out of place compared to that nice, brutally sharp image on the 1080p 50" screen you're playing on.

Seriously, fark the peripherals. Want to sell more game and make more money, quit re-hashing the same crud over and over (what CoD are we on now?) and start making epics again. Stop the DLC while you're at it. If you're going to offer DLC at a price close to the cost of half a full-length game, it had better be more than just a few maps or extra quests, it had better be half of a frikken game's worth of stuff.
 
2013-01-10 11:46:49 AM

Tommy Moo: Is anyone complaining that some and such video game sucked because it wasn't pushing enough polygons


Isn't just polygons. It's processing, physics, and other things that on a mechanical level are constrained by hardware limitations.
 
2013-01-10 11:50:18 AM

tallen702: Unless you have a theater quality projector throwing that image on your walls, it's going to look out of place compared to that nice, brutally sharp image on the 1080p 50" screen you're playing on.


www.webexhibits.org
Unless you're not actually human, your visual acuity significantly degrades a mere 5 degrees to either side of what you're looking at, so if you're focused on that nice, brutally sharp image on the 1080p 50" screen you're playing on, any blurriness in the surrounding image is irrelevant.
 
2013-01-10 11:57:55 AM
Why is that one girl playing Mario Cart on an XBox?
 
2013-01-10 12:05:12 PM

Theaetetus: tallen702: Unless you have a theater quality projector throwing that image on your walls, it's going to look out of place compared to that nice, brutally sharp image on the 1080p 50" screen you're playing on.

[www.webexhibits.org image 475x190]
Unless you're not actually human, your visual acuity significantly degrades a mere 5 degrees to either side of what you're looking at, so if you're focused on that nice, brutally sharp image on the 1080p 50" screen you're playing on, any blurriness in the surrounding image is irrelevant.


I'll give you that, but what about when something happens off screen and on the wall projection that catches your eye? Think of it like this, you're playing a multi-player FPS and you see movement up on the wall projection, you instinct is going to be to focus your eyes on it, not pan to it on the screen with your controller. It'll still be disjointed.
 
2013-01-10 12:10:12 PM
XBox 360 came out in November 2005. Please don't tell me that they've spent the last seven years on this horse exhaust. Whoever makes the next gen console, without a frickin' motion sensor or room projector, is going to get my money. Moore's law says the XBox 360 is out of date by almost five generations. It's time to upgrade the hardware.
 
2013-01-10 12:10:17 PM

deeproy: Why is that one girl playing Mario Cart on an XBox?


Some people own more that one console.
 
2013-01-10 12:11:06 PM

Tommy Moo: I just don't understand why developers need any more hardware power. Is anyone complaining that some and such video game sucked because it wasn't pushing enough polygons? We are well into the area of diminishing returns on processing power impacting game enjoyment.


Play Blops2 on a 360. It's rendering at somewhere around 640x480 internally and then upscaling it (which requires exceptionally less grunt that rendering at 720p). This is on top of ever decreasing map sizes, FOV reductions, increases in how large the weapons are (less to render), reduced skybox height, reductions in level/map complexity and every other trick you can pull to make the 360 actually try and look good. The PS3 is worse.

A GeForce 6800 Ultra will cane a 360's GPU and a Core 2 Duo capable of out MIPSing it's CPU. Both of those are obsolete. Developers want to push more polygons, they want more realistic looking characters, they want more complex levels, tessellation effects and such. But you can't do that with 8 year old hardware at 512MB total RAM.

Hell developers would squee themselves out of clean underwear if someone figured out how to give a 360 1GB of RAM and hold 30fps whilst rendering at 1080p.
 
2013-01-10 12:13:11 PM

deeproy: Why is that one girl playing Mario Cart on an XBox?


Ha, you're right. I didn't even think of that.... this is a Microsoft product, right? So are they saying their peripherals will work on the Wii also?

Subby, unification of all game consoles would count as a pretty big step forward... though i don't think that is what this video was meant to imply.
 
2013-01-10 12:15:17 PM

OceanVortex: So are they saying their peripherals will work on the Wii also?


I dnrtfa but I'm guessing it works with the TV so whatever is on the TV is what is displayed. If it's peripheral dependent, that would be epically stupid.
 
2013-01-10 12:15:43 PM

tallen702: Theaetetus: tallen702: Unless you have a theater quality projector throwing that image on your walls, it's going to look out of place compared to that nice, brutally sharp image on the 1080p 50" screen you're playing on.

[www.webexhibits.org image 475x190]
Unless you're not actually human, your visual acuity significantly degrades a mere 5 degrees to either side of what you're looking at, so if you're focused on that nice, brutally sharp image on the 1080p 50" screen you're playing on, any blurriness in the surrounding image is irrelevant.

I'll give you that, but what about when something happens off screen and on the wall projection that catches your eye? Think of it like this, you're playing a multi-player FPS and you see movement up on the wall projection, you instinct is going to be to focus your eyes on it, not pan to it on the screen with your controller. It'll still be disjointed.


Not really - think of it like now, you're playing a multiplayer FPS and you hear something off the screen, or there's a flash of light coming from one side. You pan over to see it.
Additionally, just add a bit of head tracking - you've already got the camera and Kinect system - so that if you turn your head to look to one side, the camera rotates the view halfway to meet you.

My point is that you would quickly adapt, just as you currently adapt to playing games now with what essentially amounts to blinders.
 
2013-01-10 12:18:53 PM

Tyrone Slothrop: Valve's on it, subby:
[www.extremetech.com image 640x353]
/hot


That's called a computer. It's not a console by any stretch of the imagination. Unless you stretch your imagination enough that consoles and computers are the same thing.
 
2013-01-10 12:19:00 PM

tallen702: Theaetetus: tallen702: Unless you have a theater quality projector throwing that image on your walls, it's going to look out of place compared to that nice, brutally sharp image on the 1080p 50" screen you're playing on.

[www.webexhibits.org image 475x190]
Unless you're not actually human, your visual acuity significantly degrades a mere 5 degrees to either side of what you're looking at, so if you're focused on that nice, brutally sharp image on the 1080p 50" screen you're playing on, any blurriness in the surrounding image is irrelevant.

I'll give you that, but what about when something happens off screen and on the wall projection that catches your eye? Think of it like this, you're playing a multi-player FPS and you see movement up on the wall projection, you instinct is going to be to focus your eyes on it, not pan to it on the screen with your controller. It'll still be disjointed.


I think it is meant to be like real life. If you see something in your peripheral vision you orient yourself to look at it.
 
2013-01-10 12:20:39 PM

jtown: Tyrone Slothrop: Valve's on it, subby:
[www.extremetech.com image 640x353]
/hot

That's called a computer. It's not a console by any stretch of the imagination. Unless you stretch your imagination enough that consoles and computers are the same thing.


... Are you not aware of Modern Consoles?
 
2013-01-10 12:21:23 PM

mongbiohazard: Tommy Moo: Lumbar Puncture: Tom_Slick: Cool, and why do they need a new console the 360 still works great, has an unbelievable library of games and the only advance I can think of is 3D not someting i desire in a video game.

Not subby, but the 360 is 8 years old. Developers can do a lot more now with game design but are restrained by nearly decade old limitations.

That and it has reached market saturation. Year over year sales of video games have dropped for the last couple of years as the market has become stagnant.

I'll be playing my backlog for years, but unless you want to see further contraction with game developers, then there needs to be fresh blood in the market.

I just don't understand why developers need any more hardware power. Is anyone complaining that some and such video game sucked because it wasn't pushing enough polygons? We are well into the area of diminishing returns on processing power impacting game enjoyment.


I'm complaining about it. With so many (if not most) games now being released on three platforms (PC, PS3 and Xbox) the consoles' old hardware has slowed down the advancement of graphics in games in general. The PC I've had for years now still utterly demolishes the specs required to run any game out there and graphics have not significantly increased in complexity for years now because of the effect the old console hardware is having on the market.

I'm sick of it, but the only way it's going to change is if the Xbox and/or Playstation get a significant hardware update.


If more PC gamers actually purchased their games instead of pirating them, there would be more incentive for game makers to cater to your crowd. As it is, eat the bowl of dicks you made.
 
2013-01-10 12:22:12 PM

jtown: Unless you stretch your imagination enough that consoles and computers are the same thing.


The considerable computing capability of the PlayStation 3's Cell microprocessors has raised interest in using multiple, networked PS3s for various tasks that require affordable high-performance computing
Link
 
2013-01-10 12:23:05 PM

jtown: Tyrone Slothrop: Valve's on it, subby:
[www.extremetech.com image 640x353]
/hot

That's called a computer. It's not a console by any stretch of the imagination. Unless you stretch your imagination enough that consoles and computers are the same thing.


Dumb question what is the difference? I thought consoles were basically just computers with fixed hardware/software so developers knew what they were getting.
 
2013-01-10 12:24:52 PM

Telos: Because they have started releasing rumors about the consoles coming out this year, maybe?


No actually they haven't. A lot of gamer websites have been busy making random crap up that gets submitted to places like Fark and taken as gospel. To whit: The PS4 will have an AMD CPU and a Radeon 7xxx series GPU. Except someone built a test rig using those parts and the PS3's PPC CPU out MIPS'd it.

The '720' will have a x64 CPU is another such rumour that's gone whizzing around. It's technobabble as much as reversing the tachyon flow in the deflector is. It's either x86 or x86_64 but then why would Sony/Microsoft junk all the billions they poured in to getting IBM to do custom PPC silicon for them? Yeah I can imagine THAT conference call with the share holders "Yeah, we're going to junk this thing we sank billions in to for giggles and instead use generic PC components because that worked so well for us with the original xbox... nobody hacked it to run XBMC or anything."

None of these rumours have come from the manu's, they've come from 'gamer' websites trying to get ad views from a market of people exceptionally hungry for something, anything, that may appear even remotely tangible and could indicate an imminent release of the next installment of their most beloved console franchise.

Remember the Kinect? Everyone was hyping that there'd be a whole new console to go with it and how awesome it was going to be. Nope. Hell Microsoft even outright said that the 360 + Kinect = 'the 720'.
 
2013-01-10 12:25:31 PM

jtown: That's called a computer. It's not a console by any stretch of the imagination. Unless you stretch your imagination enough that consoles and computers are the same thing.


....what?
 
2013-01-10 12:26:54 PM
"George, I wish you'd look at the nursery."
"What's wrong with it?"
"I don't know."
 
2013-01-10 12:27:28 PM

Nemo's Brother:
If more PC gamers actually purchased their games instead of pirating them, there would be more incentive for game makers to cater to your crowd. As it is, eat the bowl of dicks you made.


And the guy down the market selling chip'd 360's says you console scum can't be trusted any more than the 'glorious PC gaming master race' can.

Besides which, why the hell would a PC gamer pirate anything? Just wait for the damn steam sale.
 
2013-01-10 12:28:35 PM

abhorrent1: deeproy: Why is that one girl playing Mario Cart on an XBox?

Some people own more that one console.


So Microsoft is shilling for Nintendo now?
 
2013-01-10 12:39:09 PM
I cannot understand why game developers publishing to the PC platform. It's not like they're using Bittorrent to download games for free or modding the shiat out of multiplayer games in order to cheat online.
 
2013-01-10 12:45:56 PM

Tommy Moo: I just don't understand why developers need any more hardware power.


When your telephone is more powerful than your gaming console you are doing it wrong. Current gen consoles predate cheap RAM and SSDs. Processors double in power every 18 months, and the XBox 360 is 7 years old. Game designers have reached the limits of what the old hardware can handle.

Tommy Moo: Is anyone complaining that some and such video game sucked because it wasn't pushing enough polygons?


People do complain about slow load times, limited graphics capabilities and the people who design games would LOVE to be able to push more polygons.

Tommy Moo: We are well into the area of diminishing returns on processing power impacting game enjoyment.


Are we really? I'm not even a little bit convinced. Nor am I convinced by the diminishing returns argument at present. And it's not just processing power that needs an upgrade. Would it be too much to ask to have gaming consoles with more RAM than an iPhone?
 
2013-01-10 12:48:20 PM

JRaynor: ThatGuyGreg: Cythraul: One more step closer to the holy grail - the holodeck.

It's been said before but the worst job is Star Fleet has to be the mop guy assigned to the holodecks


I always figured that any material left in there after a session, or in the toilet holding tanks, was reclaimed via transporter and used as building material for the food replicators.
 
2013-01-10 12:56:02 PM

RatMaster999: JRaynor: ThatGuyGreg: Cythraul: One more step closer to the holy grail - the holodeck.

It's been said before but the worst job is Star Fleet has to be the mop guy assigned to the holodecks

I always figured that any material left in there after a session, or in the toilet holding tanks, was reclaimed via transporter and used as building material for the food replicators.


images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-01-10 12:57:06 PM

deeproy: abhorrent1: deeproy: Why is that one girl playing Mario Cart on an XBox?

Some people own more that one console.

So Microsoft is shilling for Nintendo now?


No. Microsoft want you to buy their product, regardless of what console you have.
 
2013-01-10 01:06:05 PM

red5ish: When your telephone is more powerful than your gaming console you are doing it wrong. Current gen consoles predate cheap RAM and SSDs. Processors double in power every 18 months, and the XBox 360 is 7 years old. Game designers have reached the limits of what the old hardware can handle.


I don't know of a wide-use phone that's more powerful than a 360 or a PS3. Hell, not even a Wii.

red5ish: People do complain about slow load times, limited graphics capabilities and the people who design games would LOVE to be able to push more polygons.


Load times, if anything, have never come down, only up. Unless you had a Sega CD or something like that. Then I just lol at (but secretly envy) you.

red5ish: Are we really? I'm not even a little bit convinced. Nor am I convinced by the diminishing returns argument at present. And it's not just processing power that needs an upgrade. Would it be too much to ask to have gaming consoles with more RAM than an iPhone?


The thing is, the longer lived the system the more you can make of it and the more you can learn from it. I agree this generation has gone far enough as it is, but I just don't see the appeal of having even more realistic graphics if there's little else to be added to the experience.

3D? Not for everyone.
Higher def? Looks nice, but so what?
Motion controls? If they're adding to the experience rather than just being there because they need to push a product (we're not even here yet!)
More processing power? Clever programmers might to interesting things with it, but looking at the next Call of Warfare: Combat Harder you see a shooter that's beneffiting nothing from more power other than looking nicer.
 
2013-01-10 01:20:41 PM

red5ish: Tommy Moo: We are well into the area of diminishing returns on processing power impacting game enjoyment.

Are we really? I'm not even a little bit convinced. Nor am I convinced by the diminishing returns argument at present. And it's not just processing power that needs an upgrade. Would it be too much to ask to have gaming consoles with more RAM than an iPhone?


Check out this video if you have a minute: Link

Sure, there's a leap from PS2 to PS3, but do you really think it's the same size as the leap between PS1 and PS2?
 
2013-01-10 01:31:39 PM

Theaetetus: RatMaster999: JRaynor: ThatGuyGreg: Cythraul: One more step closer to the holy grail - the holodeck.

It's been said before but the worst job is Star Fleet has to be the mop guy assigned to the holodecks

I always figured that any material left in there after a session, or in the toilet holding tanks, was reclaimed via transporter and used as building material for the food replicators.

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 681x546]


GODDAMN YOU!

Well... fight fire with fire...

www.meh.ro
 
2013-01-10 01:35:18 PM

Mike_LowELL: I don't think anyone knows what is the intermediary video game technology that finances the technologies that get to the holodeck.


I didn't think anyone cared. All you're going to do is masturbate all over the holodeck floor.
 
2013-01-10 01:37:57 PM

deeproy: Why is that one girl playing Mario Cart on an XBox?


So the fanboys have something to biatch about.
1) girls (who won't fark them)
2) "casual games"
3) nintendo
 
2013-01-10 01:40:13 PM

Parthenogenetic: Theaetetus: RatMaster999: JRaynor: ThatGuyGreg: Cythraul: One more step closer to the holy grail - the holodeck.

It's been said before but the worst job is Star Fleet has to be the mop guy assigned to the holodecks

I always figured that any material left in there after a session, or in the toilet holding tanks, was reclaimed via transporter and used as building material for the food replicators.

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 681x546]

GODDAMN YOU!

Well... fight fire with fire...

[www.meh.ro image 500x612]

 
2013-01-10 01:40:52 PM
Damnit!

/I has the fails
 
2013-01-10 01:46:09 PM

moothemagiccow: I didn't think anyone cared. All you're going to do is masturbate all over the holodeck floor.


Masturbate?  Why confine the control scheme to masturbation?
 
2013-01-10 01:46:37 PM

abhorrent1: deeproy: abhorrent1: deeproy: Why is that one girl playing Mario Cart on an XBox?

Some people own more that one console.

So Microsoft is shilling for Nintendo now?

No. Microsoft want you to buy their product, regardless of what console you have.


Well if the XBox can communicate with the Wii and tell what game I'm playing, all the more power to them.

/a little creepy tho'
 
2013-01-10 01:54:44 PM

Parthenogenetic: Theaetetus: RatMaster999: JRaynor: ThatGuyGreg: Cythraul: One more step closer to the holy grail - the holodeck.

It's been said before but the worst job is Star Fleet has to be the mop guy assigned to the holodecks

I always figured that any material left in there after a session, or in the toilet holding tanks, was reclaimed via transporter and used as building material for the food replicators.

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 681x546]

GODDAMN YOU!

Well... fight fire with fire...

[www.meh.ro image 500x612]


I hear Data's fully functional, and programmed in multiple techniques.
 
2013-01-10 02:12:12 PM

moothemagiccow: Cythraul: One more step closer to the holy grail - the holodeck.

or the wall screen from Fahrenheit 451


Came for a F451 reference, leaving satisfied. Thanks.
 
2013-01-10 02:25:05 PM
Came here for WTF is this? A console...for ants??

Leaving disappointed.
 
2013-01-10 02:30:12 PM

Tyrone Slothrop: Valve's on it, subby:
[www.extremetech.com image 640x353]
/hot


Hot like $999
 
2013-01-10 02:33:24 PM
I want enough processing power that my Sims can actually have their lives flash before their eyes when I delete all the doors and set the place on fire. Is that to much to ask?
 
2013-01-10 02:50:10 PM

Holocaust Agnostic: I want enough processing power that my Sims can actually have their lives flash before their eyes when I delete all the doors and set the place on fire. Is that to much to ask?


My friend plays Sims, and he made a character whose only possession was a table. In a green field somewhere, muttering "I love my table!"

Sims is a weird game....
 
2013-01-10 02:52:44 PM
So, I was playing the last Deus Ex game last night and that is when it really hit me - we have really hit the wall on what current consoles can do (and I am playing the game at 1080p on my pc). It isn't just about looking prettier. Better animation approaching or surpassing movies like Avatar and Disney's Brave.

That is why we need an upgrade. It isn't JUST about looking better (altho YES WE ARE READY for better looking games). The 360 and PS3 were fantastic machines and what they can do with them is nothing short of amazing - but in a few years we will look back on those games just as we do on old PS1 games - "good lord, how did we ever play that shiat".

I want to play a game that looks like and acts like farking reality - a reality with freedom that I don't have in ACTUAL reality and guys - we ain't there yet. NOT BY A LONG SHOT. Games like Deus Ex and Skyrim really push the boundaries, but even as good as they look, the animations are still so stiff and fake that it breaks immersion.

People have been convinced that the current consoles are "good enough" and for some, they are.

I want more. I have seen what the current consoles can do.

I WANT MORE.
 
2013-01-10 02:57:42 PM
Ambilight on steroids, eh? Sort of neat, but not really CES worthy. You can do the same thing with a PC with two monitor outputs, a screen, and a projector. Using the Kinect to scan the room and reverse-deform the projected image is a neat trick though. People have already done it with a method akin to laser-stripe sweeping Link, but doing it w/o the sweep is pretty cool.

It's flashy and looks cool, but seems like MS could have thrown this together in less than a week.
 
2013-01-10 03:04:11 PM

Tyrone Slothrop: Valve's on it, subby:
[www.extremetech.com image 640x353]
/hot


I wish Valve would stick to games.

Seriously. What's the big need for sidestepping Microsoft and Windows? Does Newell honestly believe that Microsoft is going to use Windows to lock them out of the PC gaming market? They have to keep the USDoJ happy with every release.
 
2013-01-10 03:07:37 PM

Marine1: Tyrone Slothrop: Valve's on it, subby:
[www.extremetech.com image 640x353]
/hot

I wish Valve would stick to games.

Seriously. What's the big need for sidestepping Microsoft and Windows? Does Newell honestly believe that Microsoft is going to use Windows to lock them out of the PC gaming market? They have to keep the USDoJ happy with every release.


Gabe is a genius wrapped in an IDIOT.
 
2013-01-10 03:14:44 PM
More immersive and details games are great but I think we are forgetting a few things.

You know that scene in 'Enemy at the gates' where the sniper picks up a couple of loose bricks and places them on a wall to further obscure his position from enemies? That's the level of immersion that I would like to see in a game. I want to be able to use my brain to decide what to do as a real person would not some pared down list of contextual options available to me that every other player in the game has already memorized. This will take a huge amount of processing power to accomplish and probably still be spoiled by the fact that it's a video game and '420bongwaterdrnkr235' will just sprint around the map with a shotgun completely unafraid of getting shot because, hey instant re-spawns.
 
2013-01-10 03:23:11 PM

Marine1: Tyrone Slothrop: Valve's on it, subby:
[www.extremetech.com image 640x353]
/hot

I wish Valve would stick to games.

Seriously. What's the big need for sidestepping Microsoft and Windows? Does Newell honestly believe that Microsoft is going to use Windows to lock them out of the PC gaming market? They have to keep the USDoJ happy with every release.


Win8 RT is already locked-down to the MS App Store Your really don't think that that Win9 isn't going to apply that model across the board in 2015?
 
2013-01-10 03:33:37 PM

Nemo's Brother: mongbiohazard: Tommy Moo: Lumbar Puncture: Tom_Slick: Cool, and why do they need a new console the 360 still works great, has an unbelievable library of games and the only advance I can think of is 3D not someting i desire in a video game.

Not subby, but the 360 is 8 years old. Developers can do a lot more now with game design but are restrained by nearly decade old limitations.

That and it has reached market saturation. Year over year sales of video games have dropped for the last couple of years as the market has become stagnant.

I'll be playing my backlog for years, but unless you want to see further contraction with game developers, then there needs to be fresh blood in the market.

I just don't understand why developers need any more hardware power. Is anyone complaining that some and such video game sucked because it wasn't pushing enough polygons? We are well into the area of diminishing returns on processing power impacting game enjoyment.


I'm complaining about it. With so many (if not most) games now being released on three platforms (PC, PS3 and Xbox) the consoles' old hardware has slowed down the advancement of graphics in games in general. The PC I've had for years now still utterly demolishes the specs required to run any game out there and graphics have not significantly increased in complexity for years now because of the effect the old console hardware is having on the market.

I'm sick of it, but the only way it's going to change is if the Xbox and/or Playstation get a significant hardware update.

If more PC gamers actually purchased their games instead of pirating them, there would be more incentive for game makers to cater to your crowd. As it is, eat the bowl of dicks you made.


Yes, that's why Steam has been so terribly unprofitable.
 
2013-01-10 03:49:01 PM

Marine1: Tyrone Slothrop: Valve's on it, subby:
[www.extremetech.com image 640x353]
/hot

I wish Valve would stick to games.

Seriously. What's the big need for sidestepping Microsoft and Windows? Does Newell honestly believe that Microsoft is going to use Windows to lock them out of the PC gaming market? They have to keep the USDoJ happy with every release.


I don't think it's so much a problem with Windows as wanting to tap the market of, "if it's not on the TV with a controller, I ain't playing it (but am too incompetent to buy a HDMI cable and wireless controller)," demographic. I think ol' Gaben just wants 100% market saturation; they're the Netflix of game purchasing. They want to be on all the PCs, consoles, phones, etc. Mark my words, Steam Mobile will eventually let you buy games for your phone.
 
2013-01-10 03:49:52 PM

madgonad: Marine1: Tyrone Slothrop: Valve's on it, subby:
[www.extremetech.com image 640x353]
/hot

I wish Valve would stick to games.

Seriously. What's the big need for sidestepping Microsoft and Windows? Does Newell honestly believe that Microsoft is going to use Windows to lock them out of the PC gaming market? They have to keep the USDoJ happy with every release.

Win8 RT is already locked-down to the MS App Store Your really don't think that that Win9 isn't going to apply that model across the board in 2015?


No more so than the newest versions of OS X only allow software installed through iTunes, no.
 
2013-01-10 04:02:52 PM

Tommy Moo: Lumbar Puncture: Tom_Slick: Cool, and why do they need a new console the 360 still works great, has an unbelievable library of games and the only advance I can think of is 3D not someting i desire in a video game.

Not subby, but the 360 is 8 years old. Developers can do a lot more now with game design but are restrained by nearly decade old limitations.

That and it has reached market saturation. Year over year sales of video games have dropped for the last couple of years as the market has become stagnant.

I'll be playing my backlog for years, but unless you want to see further contraction with game developers, then there needs to be fresh blood in the market.

I just don't understand why developers need any more hardware power. Is anyone complaining that some and such video game sucked because it wasn't pushing enough polygons? We are well into the area of diminishing returns on processing power impacting game enjoyment.


I feel like you both have good points. I don't know too many people complaining that current games don't look good enough, but on the other hand, overall performance could probably be greatly helped out by much faster optical drives, newer wireless adapters, and SSD data drives. Games don't really need to look any better, but I doubt anyone would mind if levels and textures loaded faster and games launched quicker.
 
2013-01-10 04:13:28 PM

LasersHurt: jtown: Tyrone Slothrop: Valve's on it, subby:
[www.extremetech.com image 640x353]
/hot

That's called a computer. It's not a console by any stretch of the imagination. Unless you stretch your imagination enough that consoles and computers are the same thing.

... Are you not aware of Modern Consoles?


They're totally different!! Why, computers have RAM, separate CPU and GPU components, hard drives, network adapters, cooling fans, and USB ports. Consoles are different, they have.... oh.... well... point taken.
 
2013-01-10 05:04:05 PM

Vaneshi: Nemo's Brother:
If more PC gamers actually purchased their games instead of pirating them, there would be more incentive for game makers to cater to your crowd. As it is, eat the bowl of dicks you made.

And the guy down the market selling chip'd 360's says you console scum can't be trusted any more than the 'glorious PC gaming master race' can.

Besides which, why the hell would a PC gamer pirate anything? Just wait for the damn steam sale.


Why game piracy is almost dead for many developers.
 
2013-01-10 05:17:10 PM

washington-babylon: Vaneshi: Nemo's Brother:
If more PC gamers actually purchased their games instead of pirating them, there would be more incentive for game makers to cater to your crowd. As it is, eat the bowl of dicks you made.

And the guy down the market selling chip'd 360's says you console scum can't be trusted any more than the 'glorious PC gaming master race' can.

Besides which, why the hell would a PC gamer pirate anything? Just wait for the damn steam sale.

Why game piracy is almost dead for many developers.


Seriously, Steam reformed me as a PC game pirate long ago. Sure I'd buy games once in a while even before but steam is frankly just a great service and inevitably offers any games I want at the price I am willing to pay for them.

/gaining a decent income helped a bit too I suppose
 
2013-01-10 05:19:50 PM

washington-babylon: Vaneshi: Nemo's Brother:
If more PC gamers actually purchased their games instead of pirating them, there would be more incentive for game makers to cater to your crowd. As it is, eat the bowl of dicks you made.

And the guy down the market selling chip'd 360's says you console scum can't be trusted any more than the 'glorious PC gaming master race' can.

Besides which, why the hell would a PC gamer pirate anything? Just wait for the damn steam sale.

Why game piracy is almost dead for many developers.


It's almost funny how that works. It's like obtaining the game and feeling like you got a good deal on it is actually more enjoyable than obtaining the game for no cost. Not because one necessarily grapples with the ethics of piracy but because, "LOOK HOW MUCH MONEY I SAVED!" Consumer psychology is weird.

Say what you will about Valve, but from a business perspective, they're freaking geniuses.

/Which is amazing for a company
//with no concept of scheduling
 
2013-01-10 05:31:44 PM

ProfessorOhki: washington-babylon: Vaneshi: Nemo's Brother:
If more PC gamers actually purchased their games instead of pirating them, there would be more incentive for game makers to cater to your crowd. As it is, eat the bowl of dicks you made.

And the guy down the market selling chip'd 360's says you console scum can't be trusted any more than the 'glorious PC gaming master race' can.

Besides which, why the hell would a PC gamer pirate anything? Just wait for the damn steam sale.

Why game piracy is almost dead for many developers.

It's almost funny how that works. It's like obtaining the game and feeling like you got a good deal on it is actually more enjoyable than obtaining the game for no cost. Not because one necessarily grapples with the ethics of piracy but because, "LOOK HOW MUCH MONEY I SAVED!" Consumer psychology is weird.

Say what you will about Valve, but from a business perspective, they're freaking geniuses.

/Which is amazing for a company
//with no concept of scheduling


i love steam and I am glad that they turn a profit but let's not pretend that there are not more pirated copies of oh say L4D2 out there being played right now than at any one time the official paid copy is being played on steam.

for instance - Torchlight 2. over 1 million copies sold.

Pirated over 5 MILLION TIMES.
 
2013-01-10 05:51:16 PM

frepnog: ProfessorOhki: washington-babylon: Vaneshi: Nemo's Brother:
If more PC gamers actually purchased their games instead of pirating them, there would be more incentive for game makers to cater to your crowd. As it is, eat the bowl of dicks you made.

And the guy down the market selling chip'd 360's says you console scum can't be trusted any more than the 'glorious PC gaming master race' can.

Besides which, why the hell would a PC gamer pirate anything? Just wait for the damn steam sale.

Why game piracy is almost dead for many developers.

It's almost funny how that works. It's like obtaining the game and feeling like you got a good deal on it is actually more enjoyable than obtaining the game for no cost. Not because one necessarily grapples with the ethics of piracy but because, "LOOK HOW MUCH MONEY I SAVED!" Consumer psychology is weird.

Say what you will about Valve, but from a business perspective, they're freaking geniuses.

/Which is amazing for a company
//with no concept of scheduling

i love steam and I am glad that they turn a profit but let's not pretend that there are not more pirated copies of oh say L4D2 out there being played right now than at any one time the official paid copy is being played on steam.

for instance - Torchlight 2. over 1 million copies sold.

Pirated over 5 MILLION TIMES.


Where are your numbers from? Same people that calculate the value of police drug hauls, or lost movie and CD sales? I'm not saying it hasn't been pirated, but I suspect 5 million might be a bit inflated.

3 bought-and-paid-for copies on Steam libraries in this house (Mine, son's and wife's) of L4D2.

Just finished the main mission on Borderlands 2, looking to enjoy the DLC (all activated on Steam, no Russian VPN required, either).

I consider it well worth $20~25 for an A-list game, and Steam has certainly made the possible. I have a huge backlog, but like BL2, when I start playing, I usually play them through all the way.

/Reformed pirate here, too
//BlackOps2 scored over a $billion in 15 days.
 
2013-01-10 05:56:37 PM

Nemo's Brother: If more PC gamers actually purchased their games instead of pirating them, there would be more incentive for game makers to cater to your crowd. As it is, eat the bowl of dicks you made.



My huge list of games purchased on Steam - and Steam's success in general - belies both your statements.

No, the real problem is modern consoles are small, old PC's so porting games to them isn't as hard to do as it once was. Considering that, if you're a game developer which do you choose to do?
1. Create a game just for PC
2. Create a game you can port to PC, Xbox and PS3

Option 2 gets you a much, much bigger market to sell to, which is why they do it. It's a logical choice, and I certainly don't blame someone for making it... I just hate the consequences. It's kind of nice not to have to build a new gaming rig every year to keep up, but when I haven't built a new rig in around 4-5 years (OK, I *did* upgrade the video card two years ago when I saw a nice sale - not that I needed to) and my machine is still overpowered for the software coming out then something is up.

And that something is crippling the pace of graphics development.
 
2013-01-10 06:01:55 PM

frepnog: for instance - Torchlight 2. over 1 million copies sold.

Pirated over 5 MILLION TIMES.


Source? Besides which what's the cross-over between those two groups as they are mutually exclusive? What's the margin for error on the statistics? The effects of piracy are dramatically overstated on PC and it's just as dramatically understated on consoles.

Usually because the company involved is either A) selling a console themselves or B) looking for an excuse to ditch a given platform.

I suspect 360 piracy will become a major issue if/when Microsoft release a new one and their is a cross-over period, same for Sony and the PS4/PS3.
 
2013-01-10 06:06:52 PM

mongbiohazard: And that something is crippling the pace of graphics development.


Not just graphics development. Poke at the silicon in a modern console and it's an in-order execution; it really hates those nasty jumping loops you'd expect in a game (like good AI). So your PC (which is optimised for out-of-order execution) really is just puttering along.

Does the Unreal 3 engine (which seems to be the most commonly used engine on console and ports) even know what to do with 1GB+ of VRAM?
 
2013-01-10 06:23:58 PM

Vaneshi: mongbiohazard: And that something is crippling the pace of graphics development.

Not just graphics development. Poke at the silicon in a modern console and it's an in-order execution; it really hates those nasty jumping loops you'd expect in a game (like good AI). So your PC (which is optimised for out-of-order execution) really is just puttering along.

Does the Unreal 3 engine (which seems to be the most commonly used engine on console and ports) even know what to do with 1GB+ of VRAM?



Yeah, seriously. I have 16 gigs of RAM in my machine, not counting the graphics card. Even Skyrim, with it's huge open world and AFTER they patched the PC version to use more of your available hardware, only uses 4 gigs of that system RAM I believe, and if I'm not mistaken my graphics card has 2 more gigs that it's not using fully either.

One of my little sister's friends was asking me about upgrading his PC the other day and wanted to know how much RAM to add (he's running Win 7 64-bit). I told him RAM was cheap and all, but if it was going to break his budget don't bother putting more than 8 gigs in there, his games aren't going to be using it anyway.
 
2013-01-10 06:39:20 PM

Theaetetus: TheOriginalEd: The effect would have been more impressive ifthey didnt have those damn shelving units mucking up the picture. Imagine how this might look in a room dedicated just to it.

[farm4.staticflickr.com image 640x480]
What a room dedicated to it may look like.

Seriously, this is a projector without a screen plus a regular TV in the middle so that you can get a decent image in the center of your view. You could also just use a giant projection screen. In fact, I have one with an 11' diagonal, and it's awesome for gaming.

... that said, this is actually kind of interesting, in that:
(i) since the damn shelving units are mucking up the picture and you've got the TV for high-resolution in the middle, you can significantly reduce your resolution on the projector part and cover a large area with low-polygon particle effects without affecting frame rate;
(ii) by first modeling the room and warping the projected image accordingly, stuff can "flow" onto the floor and ceiling while maintaining proper perspective, which would add to the immersion;
(iii) by using a camera and projecting an image of the wall onto the wall, they can do that effect shown in the video where your actual living room and all the objects in it appear to recoil slightly with every gunshot or impact.

I think it's pretty slick, honestly. Though I want a new console, too.


I wonder how well it would play out in your big dedicated room.  Would they just say "oh, your screen is big enough, lets just use it"?  Or would they show a bunch of superfluous junk outside your normal field of vision?
 
2013-01-10 06:48:48 PM

mongbiohazard: Vaneshi: mongbiohazard: And that something is crippling the pace of graphics development.

Not just graphics development. Poke at the silicon in a modern console and it's an in-order execution; it really hates those nasty jumping loops you'd expect in a game (like good AI). So your PC (which is optimised for out-of-order execution) really is just puttering along.

Does the Unreal 3 engine (which seems to be the most commonly used engine on console and ports) even know what to do with 1GB+ of VRAM?


Yeah, seriously. I have 16 gigs of RAM in my machine, not counting the graphics card. Even Skyrim, with it's huge open world and AFTER they patched the PC version to use more of your available hardware, only uses 4 gigs of that system RAM I believe, and if I'm not mistaken my graphics card has 2 more gigs that it's not using fully either.

One of my little sister's friends was asking me about upgrading his PC the other day and wanted to know how much RAM to add (he's running Win 7 64-bit). I told him RAM was cheap and all, but if it was going to break his budget don't bother putting more than 8 gigs in there, his games aren't going to be using it anyway.


Go triple screen, the Vram on the cards gets chewed up *fast* :)
 
2013-01-10 07:00:03 PM

LesserEvil: frepnog: ProfessorOhki: washington-babylon: Vaneshi: Nemo's Brother:
If more PC gamers actually purchased their games instead of pirating them, there would be more incentive for game makers to cater to your crowd. As it is, eat the bowl of dicks you made.

And the guy down the market selling chip'd 360's says you console scum can't be trusted any more than the 'glorious PC gaming master race' can.

Besides which, why the hell would a PC gamer pirate anything? Just wait for the damn steam sale.

Why game piracy is almost dead for many developers.

It's almost funny how that works. It's like obtaining the game and feeling like you got a good deal on it is actually more enjoyable than obtaining the game for no cost. Not because one necessarily grapples with the ethics of piracy but because, "LOOK HOW MUCH MONEY I SAVED!" Consumer psychology is weird.

Say what you will about Valve, but from a business perspective, they're freaking geniuses.

/Which is amazing for a company
//with no concept of scheduling

i love steam and I am glad that they turn a profit but let's not pretend that there are not more pirated copies of oh say L4D2 out there being played right now than at any one time the official paid copy is being played on steam.

for instance - Torchlight 2. over 1 million copies sold.

Pirated over 5 MILLION TIMES.

Where are your numbers from? Same people that calculate the value of police drug hauls, or lost movie and CD sales? I'm not saying it hasn't been pirated, but I suspect 5 million might be a bit inflated.

3 bought-and-paid-for copies on Steam libraries in this house (Mine, son's and wife's) of L4D2.

Just finished the main mission on Borderlands 2, looking to enjoy the DLC (all activated on Steam, no Russian VPN required, either).


Yeah, well, I own a license to Borderlands 2 and never played it. That's like REVERSE PIRACY.

/Came with video card
//Download would take too long
///Yeah, yeah, I know it's good
 
2013-01-10 07:10:10 PM

serial_crusher: Theaetetus: TheOriginalEd: The effect would have been more impressive ifthey didnt have those damn shelving units mucking up the picture. Imagine how this might look in a room dedicated just to it.

[farm4.staticflickr.com image 640x480]
What a room dedicated to it may look like.

Seriously, this is a projector without a screen plus a regular TV in the middle so that you can get a decent image in the center of your view. You could also just use a giant projection screen. In fact, I have one with an 11' diagonal, and it's awesome for gaming.

... that said, this is actually kind of interesting, in that:
(i) since the damn shelving units are mucking up the picture and you've got the TV for high-resolution in the middle, you can significantly reduce your resolution on the projector part and cover a large area with low-polygon particle effects without affecting frame rate;
(ii) by first modeling the room and warping the projected image accordingly, stuff can "flow" onto the floor and ceiling while maintaining proper perspective, which would add to the immersion;
(iii) by using a camera and projecting an image of the wall onto the wall, they can do that effect shown in the video where your actual living room and all the objects in it appear to recoil slightly with every gunshot or impact.

I think it's pretty slick, honestly. Though I want a new console, too.

I wonder how well it would play out in your big dedicated room. Would they just say "oh, your screen is big enough, lets just use it"? Or would they show a bunch of superfluous junk outside your normal field of vision?


I wonder what sort of projection they're using. If it's a bunch of short throws from near the screen or from behind the viewer w/ the screen cut out. If it's the latter, it would work terribly in that room (or with any projector set up), the secondary projector would have to be able to project a bigger image than the primary projector. That would would mean it'd have to be a fisheye (I think it's fisheye, optics are rusty) or really farking far away and higher powered. If they're short throws, you could fire them up on the other 4 adjacent surfaces and it'd be sort of awesome; poor man's IMAX dome.

Personally, I don't think projectors are conducive to the main action of most games, unless it was specifically designed for it. RockBand is sort of cool looking on a projector, but having to look so far up to see "down field" screws with your reading something fierce if you shift your gaze. Contrast that to something like BeatHazard (Astroids, if you're so inclined) where you're usually only focused on your ship and everything outside of a certain radius is noise already.

That said, their demo is pretty cool and I think I might take a shot at implementing it for fun; I've got all the hardware lying around somewhere anyway.
 
2013-01-10 08:15:23 PM

Tommy Moo: Check out this video if you have a minute: Link

Sure, there's a leap from PS2 to PS3, but do you really think it's the same size as the leap between PS1 and PS2?


I watched the video (thanks!) and I see what you're talking about. No, there is not such an obvious leap between the PS2 & PS3 (it's obvious but not AS obvious). The PS1 was a 32bit machine though, and going to 64bit was a big leap. The graphics processor in the PS3 is a dinosaur by today's standards though.

So you have convinced me that there are diminishing returns, but I hardly feel that is a reason to stop upgrading the hardware. Does it really make a difference in game play? I believe it makes for a more immersive experience when graphics are smoother and when rendering is faster. It's been six or seven years since the last upgrade. Bring on the next generation. It will look fantastic.
 
2013-01-10 11:15:58 PM

red5ish: Tommy Moo: Check out this video if you have a minute: Link

Sure, there's a leap from PS2 to PS3, but do you really think it's the same size as the leap between PS1 and PS2?

I watched the video (thanks!) and I see what you're talking about. No, there is not such an obvious leap between the PS2 & PS3 (it's obvious but not AS obvious). The PS1 was a 32bit machine though, and going to 64bit was a big leap. The graphics processor in the PS3 is a dinosaur by today's standards though.

So you have convinced me that there are diminishing returns, but I hardly feel that is a reason to stop upgrading the hardware. Does it really make a difference in game play? I believe it makes for a more immersive experience when graphics are smoother and when rendering is faster. It's been six or seven years since the last upgrade. Bring on the next generation. It will look fantastic.


But without HD, that video doesn't show what it was intending to show. Of course the gap between PS2 and PS3 isn't as great when you're watching them both at 480p; there's only so much detail to notice at such a low resolution.
 
2013-01-11 12:50:01 AM

a flock of birds: But without HD, that video doesn't show what it was intending to show. Of course the gap between PS2 and PS3 isn't as great when you're watching them both at 480p; there's only so much detail to notice at such a low resolution


I've played on pretty much every console since the early Atari boxes. Every generation has seen an improvement.
(With the Dreamcast being much better than anything else at the time, but I never owned one.)
There is a noticeable improvement between the last gen and the current generation of consoles.
 
2013-01-11 01:31:01 AM

red5ish: Tommy Moo: Check out this video if you have a minute: Link

Sure, there's a leap from PS2 to PS3, but do you really think it's the same size as the leap between PS1 and PS2?

I watched the video (thanks!) and I see what you're talking about. No, there is not such an obvious leap between the PS2 & PS3 (it's obvious but not AS obvious). The PS1 was a 32bit machine though, and going to 64bit was a big leap. The graphics processor in the PS3 is a dinosaur by today's standards though.

So you have convinced me that there are diminishing returns, but I hardly feel that is a reason to stop upgrading the hardware. Does it really make a difference in game play? I believe it makes for a more immersive experience when graphics are smoother and when rendering is faster. It's been six or seven years since the last upgrade. Bring on the next generation. It will look fantastic.


Except at some point, it become far too costly to produce assets for games with increased graphical fidelity. Look at the massive budgets on some of the titles this generation, and also look at how much more restricted games have become since the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube era. The majority of the big games this generation have all been playing it safe. We're at the point where Square-Enix is basically a publisher of other people's games now, since it takes far too long for them to make one of their own. I don't argue that a bump in processing power would be nice, but I think it should be going toward improving the gameplay. Making physics feel better, making AI smarter, putting MORE on the screen at a time to make a world feel alive. I think if we kept the current look of graphics, and put the power into the underlying GAME, we could have some really nice things.
 
2013-01-11 06:23:46 AM

FoxKelfonne:

Except at some point, it become far too costly to produce assets for games with increased graphical fidelity.


This seems true... BUT, there's something that's been bugging me for a while. And since I've been working (mostly) for 20 hours...

The highest budget for a video game is Grand Theft Auto IV, at $100 million. Now, I'd say that GTAIV actually DOES do a lot of what you said (better AI, better physics, more gameplay, etc) but... movie budgets are regularly that high if not much, much higher. According to Wolfram Alpha the highest budget for a movie was $300 million for John Carter, which tanked in the box office. Not that that's the point...

My point is, you can see a movie for roughly $10. GTAIV cost $50. I guess, if you're a family, it's $10/person... whereas GTAIV would be bought and shared by the whole family. So maybe I'm answering my own question here... but I'll ask anyway:

Couldn't games support higher budgets by reducing the price, and bringing in more customers? Also... games could be shorter. I mean, GTAIV took me months to complete... which meant I didn't play any other games. What if it were split into 5-10 hour episodes and sold for $5 each? In some ways companies are doing this with DLC, but they still charge full price for the original game. If they sold the game cheap, maybe $10 with 1/5 of the story and all the sandbox stuff then sold each additional episode at $5 maybe they could get a lot more adoption and gaming would be able to approach the money Hollywood gets.

Or I need sleep. Either way. ;)


Look at the massive budgets on some of the titles this generation, and also look at how much more restricted games have become since the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube era. The majority of the big games this generation have all been playing it safe. We're at the point where Square-Enix is basically a publisher of other people's games now, since it takes far too long for them to make one of their own.


Not to mention they've pretty much completely screwed their best franchise.


I don't argue that a bump in processing power would be nice, but I think it should be going toward improving the gameplay.


Graphics are easier, though. How do you improve gameplay in an FPS anyway? You point at things and shoot. Sandbox games are pretty much where it's at... so yeah, all the things you mention would improve those a lot. Other than that what we really need are new ideas for gameplay. I'm tired of platformers and FPS, and JRPGs for that matter. Western RPGs are hit or miss, and pretty much need to be sandboxy without looking like they copy The Elder Scrolls.

I think what we really need is new kinds of gameplay...

And for that matter, why is Legend of Zelda the only proper action-adventure game series out there? I can't think of anything else that gives you that perfect mix of fun combat, exploration, puzzle solving and intermittent new toys except maybe Metroid. And Metroid games are even more rare than Zelda games! :(
 
2013-01-11 09:16:29 AM

Telos:
This seems true... BUT, there's something that's been bugging me for a while. And since I've been working (mostly) for 20 hours...

The highest budget for a video game is Grand Theft Auto IV, at $100 million. Now, I'd say that GTAIV actually DOES do a lot of what you said (better AI, better physics, more gameplay, etc) but... movie budgets are regularly that high if not much, much higher. According to Wolfram Alpha the highest budget for a movie was $300 million for John Carter, which tanked in the box office. Not that that's the point...

My point is, you can see a movie for roughly $10. GTAIV cost $50. I guess, if you're a family, it's $10/person... whereas GTAIV would be bought and shared by the whole family. So maybe I'm answering my own question here... but I'll ask anyway:

Couldn't games support higher budgets by reducing the price, and bringing in more customers? Also... games could be shorter. I mean, GTAIV took me months to complete... which meant I didn't play any other games. What if it were split into 5-10 hour episodes and sold for $5 each? In some ways companies are doing this with DLC, but they still charge full price for the original game. If they sold the game cheap, maybe $10 with 1/5 of the story and all the sandbox stuff then sold each additional episode at $5 maybe they could get a lot more adoption and gaming would be able to approach the money Hollywood gets.

Or I need sleep. Either way. ;)


I suppose the problem with that model is that movies, unlike games, do not require a significant investment on the part of the viewers before deciding to go see a movie. In order to play a game, you need to have first plunked down a decent chunk of change for your console of choice / a PC with specs high enough to run the game. If you want to see the latest movie, you just sort of... drive to the theater. This means that the potential audience for games is much smaller than the one for movies.

Furthermore, you have places like Gamestop pushing used copies of games, sometimes less than a week after release, whereas the movie industry doesn't have to deal with a secondhand market until the film is released on DVD/BluRay. I'm not hating on the used game market, I love it for the fact that I can find awesome games that I missed years back, but it does contribute somewhat to the problem.

The other issue is that when a game DOES release for a price lower than the usual $60, many people automatically shrug it off as a useless budget title. Platinum Games just released Anarchy Reigns this week for $30. I'll be willing to bet that it completely tanks, regardless of good reviews and whatnot.


I think what we really need is new kinds of gameplay...

And for that matter, why is Legend of Zelda the only proper action-adventure game series out there? I can't think of anything else that gives you that perfect mix of fun combat, exploration, puzzle solving and intermittent new toys except maybe Metroid. And Metroid games are even more rare than Zelda games! :(


Have you played the Darksiders series? I haven't played the second one yet, but the first was like Zelda had a love child with God of War, sprinkled with a dash of Portal, and starring Arthas Menethil. Dungeons, puzzles, huge boss battles. Even a boomerang! It was good times. I hear the second is supposed to be even better. Sad that we'll probably never see a third, with THQ in bankruptcy and whatnot.
 
2013-01-11 12:11:20 PM

Telos: I think what we really need is new kinds of gameplay...


This is a constant, but when it costs millions to create a game it has to sell millions worth of copies, which makes game companies conservative and reluctant to try new things (the same goes for movies). The end result is we keep getting tried and true formulaic games. There are exceptions, but they are rare.
 
2013-01-11 12:31:16 PM

red5ish: Telos: I think what we really need is new kinds of gameplay...

This is a constant, but when it costs millions to create a game it has to sell millions worth of copies, which makes game companies conservative and reluctant to try new things (the same goes for movies). The end result is we keep getting tried and true formulaic games. There are exceptions, but they are rare.


there are only so many perspectives that can possibly exist. first person, third person, some cinematic perspectives, side view, bird's eye, etc.
 
2013-01-11 04:56:41 PM

FoxKelfonne: Have you played the Darksiders series? I haven't played the second one yet, but the first was like Zelda had a love child with God of War, sprinkled with a dash of Portal, and starring Arthas Menethil. Dungeons, puzzles, huge boss battles. Even a boomerang! It was good times. I hear the second is supposed to be even better. Sad that we'll probably never see a third, with THQ in bankruptcy and whatnot.


I haven't played the first one, and only about 10 hours into the second one, but I love it. I just wish I had more time in the day to play it.
 
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