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(Daily Mail)   Man transforms himself into a smoking hot woman, makes a neat time lapse video of the three-year procedure (w/video)   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 96
    More: Interesting, Honey Nut Cheerios, Amazing, hair transplant, love interest, Amazing time lapse  
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21521 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jan 2013 at 11:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-01-10 12:34:06 AM
8 votes:
Why are there always haters who come on here and rip on transgendered folks like some of the posts above? What the hell does it matter to you what someone else does with their body? There's no right or wrong here, and if that's something that brings this person comfort, then hell yeah, I'm for it. Are you guys so homophobic that the idea of a former man becoming a woman (and horrors, perhaps being happy about it) upsets you? Are you so insecure that just the thought of an attractive female-looking person not being 100% female challenges your macho self-image? Is lashing out like calling, "No homo!" because perhaps for just a moment you found this person attractive?

You ask what's at the root of these people's "problem." Well, what's at the root of the hate?

I wonder if the biggest haters are the Larry Craigs of the world, hating and fighting the very things they are themselves...
2013-01-09 11:24:58 PM
8 votes:
She's cute. Hope she's happy.
2013-01-10 12:38:12 AM
7 votes:

gweilo8888: And on that topic, pills and/or surgery don't turn a man with an identity crisis into a woman, or vice versa. They turn a man with an identity crisis into a man with an identity crisis, some alien hormones in his bloodstream, and perhaps a somewhat-butchered body. They're no more changing their gender than they would be changing their species by taking a few hormones and having some chicken wings grafted on over their shoulder blades.

If it makes them feel better about themselves, great, but it would probably have been a much better investment of their money to get to the root of their identity crisis and help them deal with being who they really are, rather than help them stick their fingers in their ears, shout "La la la!" and pretend to be something they will never, ever be.



It'd be a better investment if you'd stop pretending you know anything and crack open a farking book once in a while.

During fetal development of a male, the fetus' testes sends testosterone to the brain. This shapes the brain into that of a male. For whatever reason, this did not happen with this individual. Therefore in this case we have a woman's brain in the body of a man.

And now you're less ignorant than you were when you typed out that post.

You're welcome.
2013-01-09 11:34:55 PM
6 votes:
i was going to be snarky, but really, if this person thinks she is really a female mind trapped in a males body, how horrible would that be? Im not sure about the argument about the whole thing, but i wish her luck. And yes, that was pretty brave to post.
2013-01-09 11:34:45 PM
6 votes:

Myria: I wish I could do this, but my body is just too male for it to ever work =( I start crying when I think about this.


You wish you could change into a woman? I am sorry you are not happy with who you are. My thoughts are with you to find comfort and happiness.
2013-01-09 11:15:30 PM
6 votes:
That took balls.
2013-01-10 03:03:51 AM
5 votes:

gweilo8888: WhyteRaven74: gweilo8888: Just. Be. Yourself.

that's what transgendered people are doing.

No, it's really not. They're *trying* to be something, and what they're trying to be is something they will never actually be able to be.

Just being themselves would be saying "I am female on the inside. I'm male on the outside. (Or vice versa.) And I'm fine with that."

Fecacacophany: I feel the same way about vision correction. People who buy into the whole glasses / contacts / LASIK thing just need to try harder. The glasses aren't anything but a crutch and highlight their otherwise hidden defect from others. They just need more morale boosting to try harder to be normal.

Nice try, but the two are not even slightly comparable. A person who wears glasses or contacts, or has lasik, has genuinely fixed a real problem.

A person who has surgery to try and look like something that they are physically not (and never can physically be) has not fixed their real problem. They have tried to hide their real problem from themselves and/or others.

To stick with your ludicrous attempt at a parallel, a more accurate one would be a person born with no eyes having surgery to have fake eyes installed, then refusing to use a cane, seeing eye dog, or whatever and insisting that they were now sighted. No, they're not, and nor has the transgendered person *actually* changed their gender -- what they've actually done is mutilated themselves either in an attempt to avoid dealing with their own conflict between physical and mental gender identity, or in an attempt to fit into other people's narrow world view of what constitutes gender.

Neither is healthy. Healthy would be to admit it is completely normal for one's inner gender identity to conflict with their outer manifestation of gender, and to just accept that difference for what it is.


And yet there have now been three or more whole face transplants, including prosthetic eyes, that have not restored sight or even a complete look of normalcy to the recipients. It's amazing what people will choose for aesthetic reasons and to complete their sense of self. These are inherently irrational decisions, like love, hate and baseball, but accepted to be in the best interest of the participants.

While I think your underlying desire for the deconstruction of societally defined gender expectations is admirable, it's akin to wishing for world peace and the naivete of hoping for this is akin to believing that far-sighted folks just need to exercise their eye muscles more and that slapping the lazy gits for not reading right is a service you gladly provide out of the kindness of your heart. Your demand that all persons with gender identity issues simply become accepting of their non-congruent gender traits within the context of their obviously defined biological gender is fine, in much the same way that a teacher can demand that little Billy just sit at the front of the class room and forgo the glasses. It doesn't change the fact that the developmental and neurological basis of gender identity, as separate from attraction to sexual partners, etc. is still largely an unknown, just as we still don't know why a person can snap and kill a school load of kids without remorse or Beethoven could write masterpieces. There is a whole variety of non-typical minds out there and the medical community, despite its best attempts, has a very mixed and often tragic track record in treating the most negatively divergent outliers. Most of the treatment is from a reactive, not proactive approach by necessity, since there exist no diagnostic criteria for identifying gender identity disorder in individuals until they self-report. Research has, apparently, shown that there is some improvement in the outcome for transgendered persons when they, in conjunction with therapy and support, undergo SRS. Just as people were wearing corrective lenses before anyone knew the specifics of eye abnormalities. It worked, the underlying mechanics came later.

The brain as a self-programming meat computer is largely still a matter of scientific uncertainty. While we've done a lot of good work at figuring out how the physiology is wired up, so to speak, matters of self-actualization, self-realization, and affect are still largely at the point of hand-waving and contingencies. Until we know how personal identity and self-assessment of ones gender works, on a neurological level, with the same certainty that we understand the physiology of the eye, the medical community is going to continue to apply the equivalent of glasses (an imperfect solution to what may very well be an irreparable defect in brain function) to those who feel they aren't being seen by themselves correctly. Perhaps some day we will develop methods to correct all manner of aberrant and non-conformal thinking using therapies based in sound science and empirical data to yield a population of perfectly median, top-o-the-distribution-bell-curve happy people. I rue the day.

As long as men and women in society comport themselves differently, dress distinctly, have differing expectations and social roles as dictated by the combination of genetics, evolved sociology and reproductive practicality, there will be external pressures on individuals to sort themselves along lines of perceived gender and those who do not comply to the mean expectations of the commonly held bimodal distribution will continue to feel alienated. You ARE contributing to that alienation by demanding that they comply to your world view (and that of the majority) that gender is, outside of procreating, a binary system and not, possibly, a continuum of indistinct states.

When it really comes down to it, SRS is a strictly aesthetic correction to bring the persons outer expectation in line with the internal in the hopes of resolving a fundamental conflict that renders the suffering party dysfunctional from a self-defined perspective. If one could simply redefine their most fundamental self conceptions to those that best suit others, the problem would be self-correcting and the person could simply choose the path of least resistance, define themselves as their biologically grounded gender, and carry on. However, despite the overwhelming odds against their choice to identify as the "other gender", they persist with urgency and passion in taking a historically destructive path. That in itself is indicative of a monumental and potentially insurmountable obstacle to successful coping. To say a gender dysphoric can live and even thrive as gender inconsistent is akin to saying that a homosexual can just be strait for the convenience of his or her family and peers or that an alcoholic can, consistently, only have a couple beers and know when to stop.

So, they (the gender dysphoric and their physicians) just take the practical route and reorganize the meat as best they can and that decision is made with the understanding that it is not a cure, but a means to coping and even thriving. Sure, it would be great if they could, for the convenience of those around them, persist as "insert gender A" trapped in "insert gender B" body. But it doesn't work like that.

All that said, I really do wonder at your persistence in these threads. All the alts and the Bevets-esque rigidity/punctuality in getting in these threads; It points to some deep seated discomfort on this matter. Did you get burned by a transgendered person, or fooled by one? Is this an anger response or a response of fear? Are you upset that many otherwise potentially gay men, who you would prefer be trapped in their male bodies, are opting to become women and thereby no longer to your liking? Honestly, you truly, blatantly protest too much, dude.
2013-01-10 01:37:12 AM
5 votes:

gweilo8888: The My Little Pony Killer: People sure do get upset at the things other people choose to do with their own bodies. There's really no need to get so bent out of shape over something that doesn't affect you in the least anyway. Really.

Not sure whom that was in reference to, but I'll bite.

Personally, I wasn't getting "bent out of shape", so much as being mildly disgusted by the medical "professionals" that fatten their wallets and help save up for their new Ferrari or the extension on their house by taking advantage of somebody who clearly has deep-rooted identity problems.

The job of a medical professional should be to help that person, and I'm sorry, but a bunch of pills and expensive, invasive surgery does not help them in the least. The underlying identity crisis remains, and that person hasn't been helped one bit -- you've just drained their wallet and bank account.

"Gender changes" (I use quotes because there is really no such thing) are to modern medicine as trepanning and bloodletting were to historical medicine: a complete nonsense that makes no sense on any level. It's the equivalent of buying a house with major structural problems, not touching the house at all, changing the landscaping in the gardens, and then declaring the whole thing to be fixed.

And given that the person at the center of it all who's so troubled isn't actually being helped at all -- they will, almost certainly, realize that they are in fact *still* trapped inside the body of a man, and will eventually have to deal with the identity issues they'd tried to hide from -- I find that more than a little bit sickening.


I feel the same way about vision correction. People who buy into the whole glasses / contacts / LASIK thing just need to try harder. The glasses aren't anything but a crutch and highlight their otherwise hidden defect from others. They just need more morale boosting to try harder to be normal.
2013-01-10 12:04:07 AM
5 votes:
Subby: "Man transforms himself into a smoking hot woman more effeminate man, makes a neat seizure-inducing time lapse video of the three-year procedure"

Seriously, folks, if you're going to do one of these videos, replicate the same pose, exposure, lighting conditions, and clothing. This video made me feel nauseous, and that had nothing to do with the dude in it.

And on that topic, pills and/or surgery don't turn a man with an identity crisis into a woman, or vice versa. They turn a man with an identity crisis into a man with an identity crisis, some alien hormones in his bloodstream, and perhaps a somewhat-butchered body. They're no more changing their gender than they would be changing their species by taking a few hormones and having some chicken wings grafted on over their shoulder blades.

If it makes them feel better about themselves, great, but it would probably have been a much better investment of their money to get to the root of their identity crisis and help them deal with being who they really are, rather than help them stick their fingers in their ears, shout "La la la!" and pretend to be something they will never, ever be.
2013-01-10 12:40:57 AM
4 votes:

PillsHere: tricycleracer: Psycat: If it makes them more happy, more power to 'em...

I actually wonder more about the people who knowingly couple with these people.  I think they have the balance of the issues in the relationship.

If you're bisexual, it might make sense since it's like the best of both worlds or something, at least while they have a half/half body.

Of course I knew a guy who was in the process of turning into a girl (had the boobs and looked/dressed like a girl but still had the downstairs equipment) and she considered herself a lesbian. So this guy changed into a girl to be with other girls. It was confusing for a lot of people, but the ladies loved her as did the guys. She was very pretty though and I didn't even know she was a guy for a long time. When we'd go out to bars I'd frequently get the "who's your friend?" question.


Had a friend who transitioned, and Robin was always sort of ambiguously gendered, even as a male. She liked girls. She went through most of the process, but stopped at the last procedure. At the behest of her girlfriend. She is still somewhat ambiguously gendered, but living as a woman, but a woman with working male genitalia, and a LOT of hormone treatments.

Is she a big ball of issues? Boy howdy, and then some, but considering what she survived as a boy, let alone teenager, it would turn your stomach at the cruelty that some folks can put on their own kin. Did that cause Robin's disgust with her own maleness? Indubitably. Could therapy help that? It tried. There are some scars that run very deep, and not all of them are just psychological in this case. I know her history, and when she said that wanted to live as a woman, it was an easy acceptance, because I don't think I could have survived what she went through, let alone come through such a loving and gentle soul. That she found love, and someone who accepted her, scars and damage and all, is perhaps the Universe looking out for folks, or it's just a testament to what an amazing strong human it forged her to be. That she made it through, and wanted to live as a woman, I couldn't question it, because it wasn't my decision, and in knowing her, I realized that it was none of my damn business to tell her how to live her life, because it was hers, and dammit, she earned that life with more years and pain than just about anything I'd ever heard of. My job, as a friend, was to be there when she called, to bring pizza and beer when it was my turn, and accept her as she was. Not as I thought she should be. And maybe to check her on some bullshiat on occasion, there is a line where friends draw a line, and you back your peeps. Especially when you know the backstory.

On an entirely unrelated note, maybe this a good spot to leave a Dar Williams song, since she babysat for me, and visa versa a few times, and because the song is certainly apropos to the thread...
2013-01-10 12:09:11 AM
4 votes:
People sure do get upset at the things other people choose to do with their own bodies. There's really no need to get so bent out of shape over something that doesn't affect you in the least anyway. Really.
2013-01-09 11:43:08 PM
4 votes:

Britney Spear's Speculum: I like how he/she still wears a cross around his/her neck


Jesus was a queer guy, not necessarily gay, but he identified with the odd balls of society.

Just the modern "christians" have perverted jesus into an asshole.

So many things wrong with that sentence.
2013-01-10 02:13:06 AM
3 votes:

gweilo8888: Myria: For those who say that we should just go into therapy, we *are* in therapy. Transgenderism is about as incurable as herpes and Down syndrome. No amount of therapy can change that we feel like the opposite gender. Our brains are physically different.

Transgenderism is not something that *needs* to be cured. It is a completely normal state. That is why I have a problem with having surgery to try and change the physical manifestation of your identity.

Somebody doing so is putting themself through an expensive, physically painful, and risky -- arguably, downright dangerous -- procedure, solely so that a meaningless physical shell looks like something it can never actually be. Would they still feel the need to do so if we lived in a world without sight or touch? I rather doubt it. The reason for that change is solely down to how it makes the transgendered person feel in front of others, and an almost certainly false hope that others will somehow see them as more like their inner gender because they've had their outer husk modified. (I say "almost certainly false" because even after these changes, the reaction of many people -- just like in yesanded's post above -- is one of revulsion and mockery.)

I don't think it's very nice that we live in a world where the transgendered person is put through the hell of that physical change solely because other people are too narrow-minded to just let them be themselves.

It isn't the transgendered person who really has the problem. It is the person whose world view is so narrow that they feel the need to show fear, disgust, or loathing towards somebody who is different to themselves that has the real problem. But we're not fixing that, we're telling transgendered people that it's cool to go through all that shiat to make their outer being pretend to be something it's not, because then maybe people will fear and mock them less.


You're trying to express a nice sentiment - that people should be free to be themselves, regardless of what anyone else thinks of them, and that social pressure is especially unjust towards those who would have to undertake extreme action to conform. Sex reassignment surgeries and treatments are an extreme example, but your essential argument is that no one should take any action to reshape their physical bodies to try to conform to social expectations. That means exercise, grooming, fashion, and all of their diverse manifestations go right out the window. The problem is that humans are social beings - an individual's appearance is part of a complex system of symbolic communication that we cannot escape. We are all constantly undertaking actions to bring our outward appearances in line with internalized social expectations. Everything we do, from choosing what to eat and wear every day, to major invasive procedures like cosmetic surgery are a part of that process. The line you're drawing at sex reassignment surgery (presumably because it's painful and expensive) could easily be drawn at any other place in this continuum of practices. Unless you're similarly confused and upset by cis-gender cosmetic surgery, makeup use, dieting, fitness regimes, and fashion, it seems that the real concern here is about people malconforming to gender norms.
2013-01-10 02:01:23 AM
3 votes:

gweilo8888: Healthy would be to admit it is completely normal for one's inner gender identity to conflict with their outer manifestation of gender, and to just accept that difference for what it is.


Except that it's not normal, unless by "normal" you mean "possible." The vast majority of people do not have gender dysphoria, so statistically it's not within the realm of normal. Socially and culturally it's also not within the realm of normal, though it would be nice if it were within the realm of accepted. And why should people with gender dysphoria not take advantage of medical treatments and procedures that bring their bodies more in line with their subjective identities? And if they do so, why should you even care?
2013-01-10 01:40:19 AM
3 votes:
For those who say that we should just go into therapy, we *are* in therapy. Transgenderism is about as incurable as herpes and Down syndrome. No amount of therapy can change that we feel like the opposite gender. Our brains are physically different.

Doctors treat gender dysphoria by "going along" with the "delusion" because there is no other way that works. Untreated, we have a strong tendency to kill ourselves in desperation to free ourselves from constant pain.

In my case, in my early thirties, I'm seeing all my friends pair off with significant others, while I have never dated anyone. I don't want to be with anyone when my body is like this. The idea disgusts me to the point that I avoid anything down that path.

As for why I think I look overly male, just ask one of the Farkers who saw me at Irvine Lanes what I look like.

I'll get back to crying now.
2013-01-10 01:31:37 AM
3 votes:

gweilo8888: Just. Be. Yourself.


that's what transgendered people are doing.
2013-01-10 12:40:06 AM
3 votes:

Psycat: gweilo8888: Subby: "Man transforms himself into a smoking hot woman more effeminate man, makes a neat seizure-inducing time lapse video of the three-year procedure"

Seriously, folks, if you're going to do one of these videos, replicate the same pose, exposure, lighting conditions, and clothing. This video made me feel nauseous, and that had nothing to do with the dude in it.

And on that topic, pills and/or surgery don't turn a man with an identity crisis into a woman, or vice versa. They turn a man with an identity crisis into a man with an identity crisis, some alien hormones in his bloodstream, and perhaps a somewhat-butchered body. They're no more changing their gender than they would be changing their species by taking a few hormones and having some chicken wings grafted on over their shoulder blades.

If it makes them feel better about themselves, great, but it would probably have been a much better investment of their money to get to the root of their identity crisis and help them deal with being who they really are, rather than help them stick their fingers in their ears, shout "La la la!" and pretend to be something they will never, ever be.

There's a handful of people who are true hermaphrodites with two sets of genitalia--I'm not sure if it's having XXY chromosomes or what--but I think for 99.9999% of us, our gender is unambiguous. A post-op guy who's had his penis and testicles removed and is getting hormones is still a guy. I believe this deep down, but I'm also a reasonable person who tries to get along with people so I tend to refer to TGs by whatever gender they identify with. If it makes them more happy, more power to 'em...


It'd be nice if sexual development were as simple as chromosomes, but as it turns out, it's not.
2013-01-09 11:53:43 PM
3 votes:
For a change, "Smoking hot" wasn't a trap... The person in the article might still be, but meh...

I've seen a few where even though they've had all the required surgeries, they still look like a man in drag... This one looks down right beautiful...
2013-01-09 11:48:53 PM
3 votes:
She ends up looking exactly like my lost friend from 10th grade, Terry. Terry was very pretty but masculine, and in retrospect, closeted and unhappy.  It's been many years....this has kind of blown my mind.

I really need to look her/him up and give a hug.
2013-01-10 11:29:19 AM
2 votes:
So somebody can totally switch there gender through surgeries and hormone treatments yet I cant smoke a joint because its bad for me? What the fark!!!
2013-01-10 05:04:10 AM
2 votes:
Woman spends big money on cosmetic surgery to look like a more attractive woman. Conclusion - shallow, stupid, whore.

Man spends big money on cosmetic surgery to look like an attractive woman. Conclusion - enlightened, courageous, inspirational.

I don't get this fark double standard.
2013-01-10 03:20:06 AM
2 votes:
gweilo8888: I used to think like you do, when I was dating a girl at Smith College and first started encountering transgendered people; mostly, to be blunt, girls dressing and identifying as boys. I thought to myself, why not just expand your own definition of what a woman can be to include yourself? I thought these girls were "cheating", essentially, by being "male" within the safe little bubble of an all-female environment.

That was more than a decade ago, and in that time, I've gotten to know too many transgendered people too well to still think this way. I learned more what it's like inside their head, and most importantly, I've known some people who find real peace with themselves after transitioning. Real, lasting, end-of-a-very-long-road peace. Not being disgusted by their own (otherwise normal and healthy-looking) body. I'm a straight male. I can't relate to what it's like to suffer gender dysphoria, and I don't think I ever will, but I can at least understand that there are people who do, and to decry surgical and hormone options as "mutilation" or whatever is close-minded of us. It's not a problem that can be thought or talked away, and it isn't for you or I to determine what the underlying problem is and whether or not surgery and hormone therapy addresses it. It's up to these people alone.

If your major complaint is that they're going to "spend a lot of time and money" and find out that they still aren't happy... is that really a problem? People spend time and money on sports cars and sailboats only to find out it doesn't make them happy. Isn't that the American Dream, to realize you can't buy your way out of existential crisis?
2013-01-10 03:14:10 AM
2 votes:
Hey, Gweilo8888, stop "defending" transgender people. We really really don't want or need your help, thanks. We certainly know a lot more about ourselves, what we're comfortable with and what we want out of our lives than you do.

Hey, Gweilo8888, if transgender people are having gender reassignment surgeries forced on them by doctors who're just looking for a quick buck then you shouldn't have any trouble finding some news articles or scholarly essays on the subject? Or maybe even some kind of evidence for your claim? Or maybe any evidence that transgender people are unsatisfied with the procedures or standards of care?

Stop helping us, you don't know us or know anything about us. You don't represent us, leave us alone.
2013-01-10 01:53:33 AM
2 votes:

AlgertMan: Cutting your dick off won't fix your mental problems.


Having a dick won't solve yours.
2013-01-10 01:03:49 AM
2 votes:
I'll just leave these here:

1b.img.v4.skyrock.net

www.topnews.in

a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com

You would and you know it.
2013-01-10 12:43:34 AM
2 votes:

Psycat: gweilo8888: Subby: "Man transforms himself into a smoking hot woman more effeminate man, makes a neat seizure-inducing time lapse video of the three-year procedure"

Seriously, folks, if you're going to do one of these videos, replicate the same pose, exposure, lighting conditions, and clothing. This video made me feel nauseous, and that had nothing to do with the dude in it.

And on that topic, pills and/or surgery don't turn a man with an identity crisis into a woman, or vice versa. They turn a man with an identity crisis into a man with an identity crisis, some alien hormones in his bloodstream, and perhaps a somewhat-butchered body. They're no more changing their gender than they would be changing their species by taking a few hormones and having some chicken wings grafted on over their shoulder blades.

If it makes them feel better about themselves, great, but it would probably have been a much better investment of their money to get to the root of their identity crisis and help them deal with being who they really are, rather than help them stick their fingers in their ears, shout "La la la!" and pretend to be something they will never, ever be.

There's a handful of people who are true hermaphrodites with two sets of genitalia--I'm not sure if it's having XXY chromosomes or what--but I think for 99.9999% of us, our gender is unambiguous. A post-op guy who's had his penis and testicles removed and is getting hormones is still a guy. I believe this deep down, but I'm also a reasonable person who tries to get along with people so I tend to refer to TGs by whatever gender they identify with. If it makes them more happy, more power to 'em...


There are also people whose external genitalia don't correspond to their sex chromosomes. Totally cool by me if someone in that situation wants an operation to change things, but strangely they usually don't from what I have read.
2013-01-10 12:33:08 AM
2 votes:
upload.wikimedia.org

This was actually a pretty entertaining movie, definitely a "so bad it's good" film. Most "Worst Films" like Manos, the Hands of Fate are in the "so bad they suck" category and are unwatchable, but Glen or Glenda as a fascinating Ed Wood trainwreck. Imagine a serious documentary about the new sex-change operations in Denmark, mixed up with a mellerdrammer about a guy with gender issues, and with a lot of bizarro stock footage thrown in for good measure...
2013-01-10 12:23:02 AM
2 votes:

gweilo8888: And given that the person at the center of it all who's so troubled isn't actually being helped at all -- they will, almost certainly, realize that they are in fact *still* trapped inside the body of a man, and will eventually have to deal with the identity issues they'd tried to hide from -- I find that more than a little bit sickening.


At least they won't have to cover the mirrors in their house like I do in order to avoid crying...
2013-01-10 12:22:39 AM
2 votes:

Psycat: There's a handful of people who are true hermaphrodites with two sets of genitalia--I'm not sure if it's having XXY chromosomes or what--but I think for 99.9999% of us, our gender is unambiguous. A post-op guy who's had his penis and testicles removed and is getting hormones is still a guy. I believe this deep down, but I'm also a reasonable person who tries to get along with people so I tend to refer to TGs by whatever gender they identify with. If it makes them more happy, more power to 'em...


Oh, I agree, I'll call them what they like to their face, if they believe it's somehow helping them. They've wasted a whole lot of effort, time, money, and quite likely pain on avoiding dealing with their problems, and it isn't my place to tell them they were wrong to do that. It *should* be the place of a medical professional to try and guide them towards a real treatment rather than a meaningless band-aid, though.

And yes, I agree that gender is unambigious. Even for the hermaphrodites, I'd say it's unambiguous in that lopping off or sealing up one set of genitalia doesn't magically make them not a hermaphrodite any more, either. They are what they are, and no amount of pills or surgery will change that.
2013-01-10 12:22:21 AM
2 votes:
Good luck to her.

I've known a couple folks over the years who've transitioned, and it's not an easy decision, and it's not an easy process. I don't personally understand it, but then again, it's not up to me. Good luck to her, and hope that she finds happiness and peace.
2013-01-10 12:18:13 AM
2 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: People sure do get upset at the things other people choose to do with their own bodies. There's really no need to get so bent out of shape over something that doesn't affect you in the least anyway. Really.


Not sure whom that was in reference to, but I'll bite.

Personally, I wasn't getting "bent out of shape", so much as being mildly disgusted by the medical "professionals" that fatten their wallets and help save up for their new Ferrari or the extension on their house by taking advantage of somebody who clearly has deep-rooted identity problems.

The job of a medical professional should be to help that person, and I'm sorry, but a bunch of pills and expensive, invasive surgery does not help them in the least. The underlying identity crisis remains, and that person hasn't been helped one bit -- you've just drained their wallet and bank account.

"Gender changes" (I use quotes because there is really no such thing) are to modern medicine as trepanning and bloodletting were to historical medicine: a complete nonsense that makes no sense on any level. It's the equivalent of buying a house with major structural problems, not touching the house at all, changing the landscaping in the gardens, and then declaring the whole thing to be fixed.

And given that the person at the center of it all who's so troubled isn't actually being helped at all -- they will, almost certainly, realize that they are in fact *still* trapped inside the body of a man, and will eventually have to deal with the identity issues they'd tried to hide from -- I find that more than a little bit sickening.
2013-01-10 12:01:09 AM
2 votes:

Arcturus72: For a change, "Smoking hot" wasn't a trap... The person in the article might still be, but meh...

I've seen a few where even though they've had all the required surgeries, they still look like a man in drag... This one looks down right beautiful...


It may sound primitive, but in my years, I've come to believe that some are just born in the wrong body (not here to argue genetics or upbringing, though I feel there is a genetic aspect....) I saw a beautiful, handsome man from afar years ago.  When introduced, his name was Margaret. Not sure where (s)he is now but I hope it has turned out well...as confused as I was I am sure it was 1000% more confusing for Margaret. A sweet, kind, witty person - all these years later I wish her/him well.
2013-01-09 11:57:26 PM
2 votes:

Myria: I wish I could do this, but my body is just too male for it to ever work =( I start crying when I think about this.


I hear ya. All you can do is come to terms with life's limitations. The good part is that life ends. Getting to the ending is of great interest to me but will happen in its own time. in the meantime; lots of engrossing busywork and unexpected distractions.
2013-01-09 11:43:12 PM
2 votes:
socialeyezer.com
2013-01-09 11:36:07 PM
2 votes:
I like how he/she still wears a cross around his/her neck
2013-01-09 11:34:37 PM
2 votes:
Pre-op or post-op?

This is important to my plans for the next 10 minutes.
2013-01-11 12:00:50 AM
1 votes:
sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken
2013-01-10 07:21:22 PM
1 votes:

gweilo8888: I never said any such thing. If you're gay, embrace the gayness. I have gay friends. I don't have any close friends who are transvestites, but I have socialized with them. I've never met anybody who was transgendered, but I'd be perfectly open to being friends with them too. Friendship is about personality, not sexual orientation. And so, since I have no issues with them being who they are, why would I want them to pray anything away? (Particularly when I find organized religion nonsensical?)

What I want is those people not to be taken advantage of by the medical profession. Changing their physical attributes to look quasi-opposite to their birth gender externally doesn't make it so. It doesn't help anything.

What they *should* be doing, instead of plastic surgery and hormones, is simply learning to accept themselves for what they are. Are you a woman in a man's body? Great. Then accept that. I don't want you to pretend to be a man in a man's body, but equally I don't believe it is healthy for you to pretend that you're a woman in a woman's body. Just. Be. Yourself.

Psycat: Have you considered that by using an arrogant, condescending tone, you might have driven gweilo further into homophobia?

Have you considered reading people's posts before accusing them of homophobia? Hell, my wife and I had a gay housemate for months, because he was a friend of ours and needed somewhere to stay. I couldn't be much further from homophobic without actually being gay myself.

BarkingUnicorn: How did you acquire all of this expertise on transgendered people?

It's not expertise, it's common sense. Your physical gender is defined at birth, and taking hormones or having yourself mutilated does not change it. Physical gender is not the same as mental gender identity, and we are not helping by trying to force people into the mindset that it has to be. It is a completely normal, natural thing that some people have a different physical, outward manifestation of gender than what is on t ...



WHAT are you getting so bent out of shape about? Who are you to lay down the law of what trans people SHOULD be doing, sayeth YOU?

Taken advantage of by the medical profession, really? Do you have any idea of the hoops that trans have to go through to get the hormones and surgery that they want? Doctors are afraid of being sued, so they cover their asses by making trans people get years of therapy and permission letters of all kinds and "life tests" living as the preferred gender and what not. It can go on for years and cost thousands of dollars before they can get a pill or a surgery. Trans people do this because it is what THEY want. There is no cabal of greedy doctors out there, encouraging non-trans people to wish they could have this. like there is for penis or breast augmentation, as an example.

The farker who said that presentation of gender is social, is correct. You have not understood this. Just saying to yourself that you accept that your mind is differently gendered does not show on the outside or influence how others see you, before they get to know you intimately. And your appearance does affect who you are able to get to know and how.

So why are you so vehement on this issue? Unless you are trolling... my guess is that maybe you are secretly bi, that you secretly love the penis, and that you are enraged that any nice man might purposely throw away a perfectly good penis. Amirite? Perfectly understandable if you do.
2013-01-10 04:41:31 PM
1 votes:
Sex is what's between your legs. Gender's what's between your ears. When they don't match, you have transgender qualities, and that can happen on a spectrum...anything from "he's a bit effeminate" to "That's a man in a woman's body."

Bear in mind, too, that binary gender is a construct based on the assumption that the only two options are pure male and pure female, but even in bodies we see blending - we see XY females, hermaphrodism, etc. We assume that bodies only come in male and female, therefore genders must also be male and female, with no ambiguity anywhere.

But this is Nature, which gives not one single fark what kind of rules humankind imposes on it, and so there is ambiguity.

A person's inability to cope with a variant of human that they've never encountered before does not, in fact, render that other human's existence invalid, abominable, etc. We get excited when we see a slightly new species of fish or dinosaur or virus, we wonder what it means, what it's for, what it can do for us...but when we see a human who's a bit different, we scream Kill It Kill it.

If the therapy existed to make a trans person happy in their physical body, don't you think we'd be having THAT discussion right now? The one where we ask whether it's ethical to even have such a therapy, whether counselling would be needed beforehand to make sure the trans person knew what would happen, the side effects, the cost, (should the government pay, etc etc) and the feeling that we were unmaking people simply for society's convenience? Wouldn't the treatment candidate be asking themselves "Am I doing this for myself or because society is so disgusted with me that I can't not do it? Do I have to give up myself to be accepted by others?"

We don't have that option, and thank goodness, because it smacks far too much of the old Twilight Zone story where the girls have to be remade at a certain age, and they only get three templates to choose from - everyone looks the same, thinks the same, etc. We're not mature enough to handle such power, to change a person that deeply.

Note I am not saying we don't try anyway - just that we are too selfish and immature to be entrusted with such power.

If your hands were swapped, right to left, and you knew you were left handed but because your left hand was on the right, you couldn't actually write properly, and your brain was constantly at odds with your body, don't you think you'd go a little crazy with frustration? Don't you think you'd get sick of people telling you "just use the other hand!" or "just type everything!" conveniently ignoring the million other things people need hands for?

And if you went to get your hands surgically swapped to the right place, wouldn't you expect to get some bullshiat from people for it, people who didn't understand why you couldn't just be a "happy. plucky cripple" instead of seeking a functioning body at any cost?

There's a reason reassignment surgery is considered an acceptable treatment: BECAUSE NOTHING ELSE WORKS. Wherever in the brain or chemistry the mismatch is, we can't find it, we can't cut it out. So the next best thing is proposed. Change the body to be as close to the desired template as possible. You would not deny someone with muscular dystrophy their leg braces, you would never ask "how dare they wish to walk normally?"

You get the body to a place where it doesn't violently clash with what the mind knows itself to be. Some people pass perfectly, some do not. The trans people I have known have all been transformed for the better by their transition process, no matter how long it took to complete. They look as if a huge weight has been lifted off them. A wrong is righted. Maybe they still have stubble or hips but they start to love themselves, they start to thrive and it's wonderful. If those who consider GID a true "mental disorder" then they HAVE To consider the fact that the treatment, however macabre it may seem, farking WORKS. You don't get results like that from SSRIs or antipsychotics...

Unless you've been in a trans person's mind, you can't even begin to judge how they feel,. much less whether they're sane or not. So shut up and listen. Maybe then you'll learn something.
2013-01-10 02:33:31 PM
1 votes:

Myria: I don't want to live anymore if I have to be a man. I'm in such constant pain from feeling the wrong gender that I want nothing more than the pain to end.

I'm not trying to hurt anyone.

People who say that we should not try to hack up our bodies like this are basically saying that we should kill ourselves. That's the only other solution to our problem, since therapy and psychiatric medication have no effect on gender identity disorder, just like they don't on homosexuality.


Please don't take your own life. I've known and currently know several TG/TS people (some of whom have never said so, but I suspect). Life/existence is basically good, even if you're dealing with a load of crap. They cope, and life is good.

Example: my wife is schizophrenic. Two years ago she had long conversations with God, and was planning on going to Israel and performing miracles and raising a Holy Jihad army of world conquest. Now she's on Risperidone, Welbutrin and Citalopram and, though constantly tired, remembers the craziness and carries on a rational conversation.

But it's been two hears of hell. The stress and distraction of dealing with her illness is a huge contributing reason that we became homeless. But I still love my wife and will stay with her forever.

Homelessness. Yeah, we are lucky. When the money was running out I had enough sense to withhold the last month rent and use it to buy/fix up a camper shell for the truck. So we have a safe place to sleep. And life is good; there are silver linings waiting to be discovered. Such as, we've made lots of new friends who are homeless.

I don't want to sound trite, but Life is a journey. How you deal with the sometimes huge amounts of crap helps you expand yourself, your competencies, your ability to help yourself and others (which is what it is all about).

More triteness, but I happen to like it, and think it is largely true. Link

Peace. And self-empowerment. Life IS a journey; enjoy it.
2013-01-10 02:12:30 PM
1 votes:
The biggest transition I noticed in the video wasn't so much that she went from guy to girl, but that she went from sad to happy. Look at her eyes, that's a person whose outside is starting to match their inside. You can also see this in extreme-weight-loss, disfigurement-correction and burn-recovery time-lapse videos.

I have several transgendered friends and see nothing odd about it at all. My sister thinks of herself as a redhead, so she dyes her hair from blonde to auburn. I think of myself as smart, so I wear distinctive glasses rather than contacts or getting Lasik. If a friend's brain says "I'm a girl" or "I'm a guy," and the outside doesn't match, well, correcting it is no more strange than my sister and I correcting our appearance to match our own self-image. A little more complex, to be fair, but considering how much I put myself through losing weight after I recovered from depression (my brain stopped saying 'I'm ugly' and started saying 'I could be pretty,' so I altered my appearance to reflect that,) I can definitely relate and understand.

And what would be so weird about being in love with a transwoman as opposed to say, a cisgendered woman with the odd masculine interest here or there? ('Cisgendered' is the polite term for 'has OEM lady or gentleman parts,' as it were.) I've frequently noticed that some of my translady friends are more feminine than I am, and that my transgentleman friends are often more masculine than some cis-gents I've known.

Gender's all in our minds, just like any other aspect of the human consciousness, and if you fall in love with the mind, well...anything else is alterable.

/my response to finding out a guy friend of six years began life as a lady: "Oh. I wondered how you knew the proper names for colors. Want another beer?"
//my response to finding out a lady friend of two years was once a guy: "All of a sudden your vast knowledge of Ninja Turtles trivia makes sense. Want another beer?"
///seriously, there is no personal revelation besides recovering-alcoholic that does NOT call for another beer. That is etiquette.
2013-01-10 01:19:42 PM
1 votes:
I had a friend who was transitioning from Charlie to Charlena. He paid to have an orchiectomy performed at a local hospital and died not long after due to an infection.
2013-01-10 09:32:45 AM
1 votes:
And they wonder why they're beaten to death when they don't tell their straight male lover about this shiat, and let them find out on their own...

It's clearly no wonder...they deserve it.
2013-01-10 07:36:26 AM
1 votes:

Myria: I don't want to live anymore if I have to be a man. I'm in such constant pain from feeling the wrong gender that I want nothing more than the pain to end.

I'm not trying to hurt anyone.

People who say that we should not try to hack up our bodies like this are basically saying that we should kill ourselves. That's the only other solution to our problem, since therapy and psychiatric medication have no effect on gender identity disorder, just like they don't on homosexuality.


Do what you need to in order to be happy with yourself, But then spend a significant amount of the rest your life trying to make others happy as well
2013-01-10 07:04:35 AM
1 votes:

farkplug: I went to an interesting lecture on the subject by a notable researcher who also has adopted several tiny kids, and surely enough, a couple exhibited signs of being transgendered. (For all I know, that might be why he adopted them, though.) Anyway, he stressed that they are aware that their bodies don't match who they are at a very young age--like at three or four, even. He also said there's a very high suicide rate for the transgendered. Despite this fact, he said only one two-hour class in med school (specialization: psychiatry) is dedicated to the subject. Living with it can't be easy. I don't think of it as just an "identity crisis", per se. I am happy for the ones that make it to the other side. They go through so much pain to get to have something that the rest of us take for granted.


For all you know he was manipulating them into "exhibiting" those signs.

Myria: In my case, in my early thirties, I'm seeing all my friends pair off with significant others, while I have never dated anyone. I don't want to be with anyone when my body is like this. The idea disgusts me to the point that I avoid anything down that path.


If you want to take hormones and have surgery, good on you, but the self esteem issues that are turning you off of a relation ship sound no different than people who have no problemw ith their gender.


Soni: here, read some wiki...

The central subdivision of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc) is. On average, the BSTc is twice as large in men as in women and contains twice the number of neurons.  A sample of six taking estrogen were found to have female-typical number of cells in the BSTc, whereas a transsexual taking testosterone was found to have a male-typical number. The authors also examined subjects with hormone-related disorders and found no pattern between those disorders and the BSTc while the single untreated male-to-female transsexual had a female-typical number of cells. They concluded that the BSTc provides evidence for a neurobiological basis ofand proposed that such was determined before birth.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stria_terminalis


That set off some warning bells.

Criticisms of the former statement suggest[8] the study used an unrepresentative sample and did not adequately control for hormone replacement therapy, which has been shown to influence hypothalamic size,[9] even though the study tried to do this by including non-transsexual male and female controls which, for a variety of medical reasons, had experienced hormone reversal.[6] The statement about the neurobiological basis from birth has later been brought to question, though not refuted, by a follow up study by the same group which found that the sexual dimorphism of the BSTc is not present before adulthood (approximately 22 years of age) even though transsexuals report being aware of their gender identity since childhood
2013-01-10 06:59:21 AM
1 votes:
I don't want to live anymore if I have to be a man. I'm in such constant pain from feeling the wrong gender that I want nothing more than the pain to end.

I'm not trying to hurt anyone.

People who say that we should not try to hack up our bodies like this are basically saying that we should kill ourselves. That's the only other solution to our problem, since therapy and psychiatric medication have no effect on gender identity disorder, just like they don't on homosexuality.
2013-01-10 06:53:57 AM
1 votes:
Hey, doc, can I haves some MJ to help with my post op pain?

theonlinehealthjournal.com

No, but I can cut off your dick

i.istockimg.com

..........

www.troll.me
2013-01-10 06:51:12 AM
1 votes:
To bad that dude wasn't able to obtain mental health assistance.
2013-01-10 05:35:10 AM
1 votes:
Some people have body images of themselves without a dick, some have a body image of themselves without a leg. If you go to some orthopaedic surgeon to get your leg cut off he'll refuse. If you go to a plastic surgeon to get your normal dick cut off he'll do it. Same body dysmorphic disorder but opposite surgical responses.

Fake leg amputation shot, where's the right knee, for all the Farkers fantasizing about getting their legs cut off. Must be a lot of them judging by how many are saying they want their dicks chopped off.

i.istockimg.com
2013-01-10 04:15:17 AM
1 votes:

Fecacacophany: Ok, keeping it simple; the recipients of ALL face transplants were only done for cosmetic reasons


Demonstrably untrue:

Richard Lee Norris had "not eaten or spoken properly for 15 years" before his face transplant (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2242889/Face-transplant-man-R ichard-Lee-Norris-talking-time-leaves-home.html)

Connie Culp was unable to eat or breathe on her own before her face transplant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connie_Culp)

Dallas Wiens regained his sense of smell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Wiens)

They're not alone; that's just three US examples. There are without question reasons beyond mere cosmetics that these people wanted and needed surgery. I know you believe you've got a good parallel, but you haven't.
2013-01-10 04:00:31 AM
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: gweilo8888: called for them to be accepted as they are,

Except you're arguing against that. It's not a matter of just accepting people as they are, it's people also accepting themselves, even yes at the physical level when they look in the mirror.


I'm aware of that, and have said as much. That self-acceptance isn't necessarily going to come through surgery, though. The surgery itself becomes part of the problem; the more you change, and the closer you get to the supposed ideal, the more glaringly the remaining problems stand out for you when you look in the mirror, and call for more surgery. It's an effect not entirely unlike that of the uncanny valley in robotics and animation.

By sending somebody down the road of plastic surgery, you're sending them down the same road that creates addictions like Jocelyn Wildenstein or Lolo Ferrari. You've not answered the root cause of the problems; instead you've provided a scapegoat problem that becomes an obession, whether it's the man feeling they don't look female enough, or the woman feeling they don't look male enough.

Self-acceptance has to come from within. It's not something you carve onto the outside of yourself.
2013-01-10 03:50:48 AM
1 votes:
The My Little Pony Killer:

People sure do get upset at the things other people choose to do with their own bodies. There's really no need to get so bent out of shape over something that doesn't affect you in the least anyway. Really.

It's not wrong for a vegan to tell me I should stop eating meat: they're stating their opinion, not locking me up and depriving me of animal-based food or making meat illegal. I won't covert to veganism, even though I agree with many of the moral critiques, because I think the issue could be resolved by treating the animals better -- and because I don't want to give up one of my life's few pleasures. (Morally speaking I'd rather eat people I have no use for, but that'll probably remain illegal or at least highly impractical for the rest of my life.) This is also why I don't try to silence anti-abortion advocates or burn down the Westboro Baptist Church: they have the right to free speech, while we have the right to ignore or argue with them.

Nor is it wrong to try to talk people out of making what we see as a terrible and irreversible mistake. The person doesn't have to follow our advice or even listen, nor should we seek any power to enforce compliance. I'm not camping out on someone's lawn with a sign reading "Please don't mutilate your genitals!" -- I'm not even contacting anyone by email -- and all Farkers have to do to protect themselves from my opinions is to add me to their Ignore list. (This doesn't stop people from quoting what I post and amplifying the impact by arguing with me in public, but that too can be resolved by Ignoring me instead of wasting time & energy.)

As to your remarks: we don't see it as "getting bent out of shape," we see it as "trying to talk sense" or even "showing compassion." Would you rather us sit quietly by while you put out your eyes, for example, or would you rather us say "You might want to reconsider what you mean to do there" -- and then get out of your way? You'll still be free to spoon your eyeballs from their sockets, while we won't have to live with the guilt of not doing anything to try to get you not to. In fact, in the issue of "sex change" case we're (usually) not even addressing any transsexuals directly; mainly we're arguing with people who enable them, so a better analogy would be arguing with people who'd encourage you to blind yourself.

You'll also note that in most cases we who advocate against "sex change" don't want to pass laws against it, much less to kill anyone over it: we agree with you that they may do as they damn please with their own bodies. (Just as I can eat keep eating meat, and we both can keep snarking at Farkers we disagree with.)

Note also that in fact I could be arguing against my own interest: the fewer men with penises there are the more penis-loving women there are for the rest of us. If every other man in Lexington, KY got a "sex change" I might even get a hot woman for free again, though in my case it's more likely that lesbianism and/or emigration will increase instead.

As for me, I've said many times that I hang out on Fark because it's one of the few pleasures my life affords, and that the main reason I waste my time typing into these buffers is because I "like to hear myself talk." You're free to think I'm a nattering idiot, even to tell me so, and you might even be correct; nevertheless I won't be drying up & blowing away till I find something better to do, such as finish my attempt at The Great American Novel and/or learn to enjoy wanking with my left hand instead. So, again, please feel free to add my username to your Ignore list -- in fact please do if it increases your enjoyment of Fark and/or life.

Really.
2013-01-10 03:33:09 AM
1 votes:
Still a man
2013-01-10 03:21:26 AM
1 votes:
Fecacacophany:

Alright that was TLDR (well actually I did read it) but you're favorited now as cool.

/Oh and just for the fun of it welcome to TF : )
2013-01-10 03:19:25 AM
1 votes:

gweilo8888: I'd just much rather see these folks getting real help for their psychological problems, and acceptance from society for the fact that it's perfectly normal for somebody to have different inward and outward manifestations of gender, than see them being put through a hugely painful, expensive and dangerous procedure that is effectively nothing more than a band-aid covering a life-threatening wound.

I want to see them able to -- and allowed to -- live as what they truly are. A person who is different on the inside from their outside, and who is not even slightly less of a person for that difference.


You seem to be making an inconsistent argument - that people with gender identity disorders need psychological treatment, but that society must change and recognize that it's okay for people to be physically one sex while identifying with a different gender. Is the psychological treatment then to realign the persons identity with their physical sex, or is it to help them deal with the trauma of victimization by what you see as an unjust social convention?

You seem to be of the opinion that transgendered people are being deceived into paying for treatments and surgeries that will not "solve their problem." But that is reductionist and assumes that all transgendered people have the same "problem" and the same desires with respect to how to resolve that problem. In terms of ethics and unrealistic expectations, in many cases, sex reassignment surgery is only performed along with extensive psychological counseling and a lot of effort on the part of therapist/patient/surgeon to ensure that people don't go through the process with false hopes and limited awareness and expectation of realistic results.

There are people who live just the way you say transgendered people should - essentially as men or women in drag, maintaining the physical body they grew up into but identifying and (perhaps) socially engaging as a different gender. And that's fine for those people. Not all transgendered people want to undergo surgery or hormone therapies. Not all of those who want some level of hormone therapy or surgical intervention want to make a full transition. You seem to be arguing that no one should undergo surgery. Why should people not be free to choose surgery if they want it and if they are well-informed and freely consenting to surgical interventions?
2013-01-10 03:18:24 AM
1 votes:

The Liver: Why are there always haters who come on here and rip on transgendered folks like some of the posts above? What the hell does it matter to you what someone else does with their body? There's no right or wrong here, and if that's something that brings this person comfort, then hell yeah, I'm for it. Are you guys so homophobic that the idea of a former man becoming a woman (and horrors, perhaps being happy about it) upsets you? Are you so insecure that just the thought of an attractive female-looking person not being 100% female challenges your macho self-image? Is lashing out like calling, "No homo!" because perhaps for just a moment you found this person attractive?

You ask what's at the root of these people's "problem." Well, what's at the root of the hate?

I wonder if the biggest haters are the Larry Craigs of the world, hating and fighting the very things they are themselves...


It's not homophobic to not want to be with a post op wannabe female who is not in actuality a female. All of you apologetics ought to shut up about what a straight man should think about a transsexual man acting like a woman. Stop projecting your imagined hangup free willingnes to enter into a relationship with two totally different beings like a real born-that-way woman vs. one with a gender identity crisis who has gone so far afield as to hack away at body parts in an irreversable procedure necessitating expensive life long artificial hormones to maintain the facade.

That will never be a full woman in the real sense, in the fake sense or in the 2 cents.

Oh, and allegedly transgender people aren't really homosexual since they believe they are the other gender so they can't really use "homophobia" as a label for people who don't believe or want to participate in the facade that the Emperor is wearing new clothes.
2013-01-10 02:46:10 AM
1 votes:

gweilo8888: WhyteRaven74: gweilo8888: is one of revulsion and mockery

you're assuming other people have any clue that who they see hasn't always looked as they do.

because then maybe people will fear and mock them less.

and you're doing such a bang up job of not fearing or mocking.

Care to point out where I've been fearing or mocking? Because I have repeatedly and ardently called for them to be accepted as they are, throughout this thread. So frankly, it strikes me that you haven't actually read a word I've said, and you're just putting words in my mouth because you're looking for an argument.


No, you really haven't. You've insisted that people accept your definition of who they are. And you've called up the 'I have gay friends' line of defense.

And are you really arguing with WhyteRaven about TG issues?
2013-01-10 02:45:16 AM
1 votes:

Fecacacophany:


All you can do is come to terms with life's limitations.


Such as being born male.
2013-01-10 02:29:13 AM
1 votes:

hubiestubert: PillsHere: tricycleracer: Psycat: If it makes them more happy, more power to 'em...

I actually wonder more about the people who knowingly couple with these people.  I think they have the balance of the issues in the relationship.

If you're bisexual, it might make sense since it's like the best of both worlds or something, at least while they have a half/half body.

Of course I knew a guy who was in the process of turning into a girl (had the boobs and looked/dressed like a girl but still had the downstairs equipment) and she considered herself a lesbian. So this guy changed into a girl to be with other girls. It was confusing for a lot of people, but the ladies loved her as did the guys. She was very pretty though and I didn't even know she was a guy for a long time. When we'd go out to bars I'd frequently get the "who's your friend?" question.

Had a friend who transitioned, and Robin was always sort of ambiguously gendered, even as a male. She liked girls. She went through most of the process, but stopped at the last procedure. At the behest of her girlfriend. She is still somewhat ambiguously gendered, but living as a woman, but a woman with working male genitalia, and a LOT of hormone treatments.

Is she a big ball of issues? Boy howdy, and then some, but considering what she survived as a boy, let alone teenager, it would turn your stomach at the cruelty that some folks can put on their own kin. Did that cause Robin's disgust with her own maleness? Indubitably. Could therapy help that? It tried. There are some scars that run very deep, and not all of them are just psychological in this case. I know her history, and when she said that wanted to live as a woman, it was an easy acceptance, because I don't think I could have survived what she went through, let alone come through such a loving and gentle soul. That she found love, and someone who accepted her, scars and damage and all, is perhaps the Universe looking out for folks, or it's just a testament to what ...


Goddess help me but, I love you even more now.
2013-01-10 02:25:12 AM
1 votes:

Eleri: Psycat: Kaybeck: gweilo8888: And on that topic, pills and/or surgery don't turn a man with an identity crisis into a woman, or vice versa. They turn a man with an identity crisis into a man with an identity crisis, some alien hormones in his bloodstream, and perhaps a somewhat-butchered body. They're no more changing their gender than they would be changing their species by taking a few hormones and having some chicken wings grafted on over their shoulder blades.

If it makes them feel better about themselves, great, but it would probably have been a much better investment of their money to get to the root of their identity crisis and help them deal with being who they really are, rather than help them stick their fingers in their ears, shout "La la la!" and pretend to be something they will never, ever be.


It'd be a better investment if you'd stop pretending you know anything and crack open a farking book once in a while.

During fetal development of a male, the fetus' testes sends testosterone to the brain. This shapes the brain into that of a male. For whatever reason, this did not happen with this individual. Therefore in this case we have a woman's brain in the body of a man.

And now you're less ignorant than you were when you typed out that post.

You're welcome.

Have you considered that by using an arrogant, condescending tone, you might have driven gweilo further into homophobia?

Folks, if you're really trying to win converts to your way of thinking, please try to remember an old adage about the relative attractant qualities of honey vs. vinegar on flies. Insulting somebody's intelligence is a good way to make them defiantly opposed to your way of thinking...

That's a wonderful sentiment, but unlikely to happen. Mainly because, as gweilo8888 her/himself stated, "it's just common sense." That's the basis for gweilo8888's decision-making. You're not dealing with a rational thought process. This means that any contradictory information of any factual nat ...


Oh goody, another person judging me as "homophobic" when I am the very opposite. How many times do I need to repeat: I have gay friends. I have bisexual friends. I have socialized with -- and have no problem with -- transvestites.

This is not and never has been about homophobia, and I wish you lot would recognize that. It's about acceptance.

If we were talking about black people having cosmetic surgery and skin bleaching because they felt white inside, and wanted the world to see them as white, would we be having this conversation? No. We'd be in agreement that medical professionals aiding them were failing to do their job, and we'd be in agreement that those people should be getting professional advice to help them learn to be who they are.

But apparently it's too easy here to label somebody as homophobic rather than to actually read what they had written.

Jesus.

misanthropologist: You're trying to express a nice sentiment - that people should be free to be themselves, regardless of what anyone else thinks of them, and that social pressure is especially unjust towards those who would have to undertake extreme action to conform. Sex reassignment surgeries and treatments are an extreme example, but your essential argument is that no one should take any action to reshape their physical bodies to try to conform to social expectations. That means exercise, grooming, fashion, and all of their diverse manifestations go right out the window. The problem is that humans are social beings - an individual's appearance is part of a complex system of symbolic communication that we cannot escape. We are all constantly undertaking actions to bring our outward appearances in line with internalized social expectations. Everything we do, from choosing what to eat and wear every day, to major invasive procedures like cosmetic surgery are a part of that process. The line you're drawing at sex reassignment surgery (presumably because it's painful and expensive) could easily be drawn at any other place in this continuum of practices. Unless you're similarly confused and upset by cis-gender cosmetic surgery, makeup use, dieting, fitness regimes, and fashion, it seems that the real concern here is about people malconforming to gender norms.


Thanks for being perhaps the only person in the entire thread to read what I said.

My opinion isn't quite as extreme as all that, though. There's a world of difference between putting on makeup (which costs little, and is easily changed or reversed), getting exercise (which is demonstrably good for your physical health and wellbeing), and having invasive surgery to try and pretend your external shell is something that it isn't, just because it doesn't match what's on the inside.

I'd just much rather see these folks getting real help for their psychological problems, and acceptance from society for the fact that it's perfectly normal for somebody to have different inward and outward manifestations of gender, than see them being put through a hugely painful, expensive and dangerous procedure that is effectively nothing more than a band-aid covering a life-threatening wound.

I want to see them able to -- and allowed to -- live as what they truly are. A person who is different on the inside from their outside, and who is not even slightly less of a person for that difference.
2013-01-10 02:11:03 AM
1 votes:

Psycat: Kaybeck: gweilo8888: And on that topic, pills and/or surgery don't turn a man with an identity crisis into a woman, or vice versa. They turn a man with an identity crisis into a man with an identity crisis, some alien hormones in his bloodstream, and perhaps a somewhat-butchered body. They're no more changing their gender than they would be changing their species by taking a few hormones and having some chicken wings grafted on over their shoulder blades.

If it makes them feel better about themselves, great, but it would probably have been a much better investment of their money to get to the root of their identity crisis and help them deal with being who they really are, rather than help them stick their fingers in their ears, shout "La la la!" and pretend to be something they will never, ever be.


It'd be a better investment if you'd stop pretending you know anything and crack open a farking book once in a while.

During fetal development of a male, the fetus' testes sends testosterone to the brain. This shapes the brain into that of a male. For whatever reason, this did not happen with this individual. Therefore in this case we have a woman's brain in the body of a man.

And now you're less ignorant than you were when you typed out that post.

You're welcome.

Have you considered that by using an arrogant, condescending tone, you might have driven gweilo further into homophobia?

Folks, if you're really trying to win converts to your way of thinking, please try to remember an old adage about the relative attractant qualities of honey vs. vinegar on flies. Insulting somebody's intelligence is a good way to make them defiantly opposed to your way of thinking...


That's a wonderful sentiment, but unlikely to happen. Mainly because, as gweilo8888 her/himself stated, "it's just common sense." That's the basis for gweilo8888's decision-making. You're not dealing with a rational thought process. This means that any contradictory information of any factual nature will just drive the person you're talking to further into their beliefs. (Sorry, don't have the cites on me at the moment). Whether or not you are confrontational, presenting facts in any fashion is unlikely to get through.

The best way to get through is a long-term campaign where you first find agreeable factual ground, and explore the other person's belief structure in regards to their faulty factual position. This establishes trust, and a starting point. Once you've accomplished that, then you have to begin to get them to explore the contradictory or natural consequences (most easily through analogy) of their beliefs. Most beliefs, like this one that those who are TG are just mentally disturbed, will begin to show logical cracks. Of course, then to prevent the person you're convincing from shutting down, you do have to then back off, and allow those natural consequences and contradictions to arise inevitably in the person's mind. Once those contradictions appear, they should be more receptive to contradictory information. After introducing a bit over a period of time, then you will find that the incorrect belief can finally be corrected.

In short, very unlikely to happen in a Fark thread, no matter how many facts are thrown at gweilo8888. He/she will retreat even more as more facts are thrown his/her way. This, unfortunately, is the most standard reaction when someone's "common sense" or "beliefs" are questioned. As a personal anecdote, I find people fight hardest on those beliefs that are examined least, but that lack of examination can never be acknowledged.
2013-01-10 01:58:54 AM
1 votes:

Myria: For those who say that we should just go into therapy, we *are* in therapy. Transgenderism is about as incurable as herpes and Down syndrome. No amount of therapy can change that we feel like the opposite gender. Our brains are physically different.


Transgenderism is not something that *needs* to be cured. It is a completely normal state. That is why I have a problem with having surgery to try and change the physical manifestation of your identity.

Somebody doing so is putting themself through an expensive, physically painful, and risky -- arguably, downright dangerous -- procedure, solely so that a meaningless physical shell looks like something it can never actually be. Would they still feel the need to do so if we lived in a world without sight or touch? I rather doubt it. The reason for that change is solely down to how it makes the transgendered person feel in front of others, and an almost certainly false hope that others will somehow see them as more like their inner gender because they've had their outer husk modified. (I say "almost certainly false" because even after these changes, the reaction of many people -- just like in yesanded's post above -- is one of revulsion and mockery.)

I don't think it's very nice that we live in a world where the transgendered person is put through the hell of that physical change solely because other people are too narrow-minded to just let them be themselves.

It isn't the transgendered person who really has the problem. It is the person whose world view is so narrow that they feel the need to show fear, disgust, or loathing towards somebody who is different to themselves that has the real problem. But we're not fixing that, we're telling transgendered people that it's cool to go through all that shiat to make their outer being pretend to be something it's not, because then maybe people will fear and mock them less.
2013-01-10 01:54:37 AM
1 votes:

Myria: For those who say that we should just go into therapy, we *are* in therapy. Transgenderism is about as incurable as herpes and Down syndrome. No amount of therapy can change that we feel like the opposite gender. Our brains are physically different.

Doctors treat gender dysphoria by "going along" with the "delusion" because there is no other way that works. Untreated, we have a strong tendency to kill ourselves in desperation to free ourselves from constant pain.

In my case, in my early thirties, I'm seeing all my friends pair off with significant others, while I have never dated anyone. I don't want to be with anyone when my body is like this. The idea disgusts me to the point that I avoid anything down that path.

As for why I think I look overly male, just ask one of the Farkers who saw me at Irvine Lanes what I look like.

I'll get back to crying now.


I would drop the herpes analogy, for the sake of strengthening your argument. Down Syndrome works, metaphorically at least, because it's something innate and unalterable. Herpes is an infection, not an innate condition. Sure it's incurable (for now), but it's preventable. I don't imagine you're open to arguing that gender identity disorders are (or should be considered) preventable.
2013-01-10 01:48:04 AM
1 votes:
I don't see why the haters gonna hate.

Say you meet a waitress that isn't obviously a man, they act like a woman, they're built like a woman, dressed like a woman and you treat them like a woman.

What else are they missing aside from the initial ability to have a kid (women can be infertile)?

They could move to another country, meet a dozen new friends and no one would ever know any different.

Here's a music comparison, I used to like rap, whilst I could never truly say I was never an rap fan however I can say I'm not a fan of rap. I could move to Ukraine, listen to rock and forget entirely about my whole rap phase and my new Ukraine friends would never be any the wiser.

As a result I could happily say who cares that I used to like rap, I don't now and I currently enjoy life listening to rock.

I would probably still be happy if I was still a fan of rap, however I probably wouldn't have my current friends because they wouldn't agree with my rap lifestyle. However I listen to rock now and I'm likely happier doing so than I would have been if was still a fan of rap music.
2013-01-10 01:41:31 AM
1 votes:
here, read some wiki...

The central subdivision of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc) is. On average, the BSTc is twice as large in men as in women and contains twice the number of neurons. A sample of six taking estrogen were found to have female-typical number of cells in the BSTc, whereas a transsexual taking testosterone was found to have a male-typical number. The authors also examined subjects with hormone-related disorders and found no pattern between those disorders and the BSTc while the single untreated male-to-female transsexual had a female-typical number of cells. They concluded that the BSTc provides evidence for a neurobiological basis ofand proposed that such was determined before birth.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stria_terminalis
2013-01-10 01:40:44 AM
1 votes:
"Smoking hot"?

Just stop.

No, I really mean it. Stop that crap.
2013-01-10 01:35:29 AM
1 votes:

dyhchong: I'd hit it if long post op.

I always wondered about depth and lubrication however, is it just a big fleshy sock, how do you keep it clean, what about orgasm?


Depth can be a problem.  Transwomen, generally speaking, have trouble with male partners who possess larger penises.  And if the operation goes well, one can still have orgasms.

As for how keeps it clean, I would imagine the same way any other woman does.
2013-01-10 01:34:40 AM
1 votes:

Psycat: I hope this makes him/her happy. While I think that gender is ultimately in your sex chromosomes, unless you're a true hermaphrodite (which is rare), I try to cut TG people a lot of slack. Personally, I'd prefer a woman with XX chromosomes who was female from birth, but hey, different strokes for different folks...


Gender does not equal biological sex. Gender is a social phenomenon, with which different societies make assumptions and expectations about what individuals of different sexes can and should do in society. So, while biological sex may be a phenotypic expression of chromosomal composition (including the many different intersex combinations...), gender is always social.
2013-01-10 01:28:01 AM
1 votes:

Kaybeck: You're welcome.


Yeah, no. I'm well aware how it works, but making that male's body look female does not turn them into a female to match their female mind. They are still a female mind inside a male body, just a male body that's on hormones and possibly has been chopped up a bit.

It would be much healthier for that individual to come to terms with the fact that genders are fuzzy, and that they are a female mind in a male body, rather than that individual trying to fit themselves into a narrow world view that says you can't be female on the inside unless your outside looks that way too.

And you're on ignore now, since you're too thick to understand that.

So... Pray the gay away then?

I never said any such thing. If you're gay, embrace the gayness. I have gay friends. I don't have any close friends who are transvestites, but I have socialized with them. I've never met anybody who was transgendered, but I'd be perfectly open to being friends with them too. Friendship is about personality, not sexual orientation. And so, since I have no issues with them being who they are, why would I want them to pray anything away? (Particularly when I find organized religion nonsensical?)

What I want is those people not to be taken advantage of by the medical profession. Changing their physical attributes to look quasi-opposite to their birth gender externally doesn't make it so. It doesn't help anything.

What they *should* be doing, instead of plastic surgery and hormones, is simply learning to accept themselves for what they are. Are you a woman in a man's body? Great. Then accept that. I don't want you to pretend to be a man in a man's body, but equally I don't believe it is healthy for you to pretend that you're a woman in a woman's body. Just. Be. Yourself.

Psycat: Have you considered that by using an arrogant, condescending tone, you might have driven gweilo further into homophobia?

Have you considered reading people's posts before accusing them of homophobia? Hell, my wife and I had a gay housemate for months, because he was a friend of ours and needed somewhere to stay. I couldn't be much further from homophobic without actually being gay myself.

BarkingUnicorn: How did you acquire all of this expertise on transgendered people?

It's not expertise, it's common sense. Your physical gender is defined at birth, and taking hormones or having yourself mutilated does not change it. Physical gender is not the same as mental gender identity, and we are not helping by trying to force people into the mindset that it has to be. It is a completely normal, natural thing that some people have a different physical, outward manifestation of gender than what is on the inside.

We should be accepting people for who they are, not taking advantage of their gender crisis as a profit center, which is what some in the medical industry are doing.
2013-01-10 01:24:24 AM
1 votes:

FLOYDtheBARBER: I'll just leave these here:

[1b.img.v4.skyrock.net image 500x707]

[www.topnews.in image 401x621]

[a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com image 600x800]

You would and you know it.


Second one maybe, first and third images just scream fake girls, and likely also a prostitute (and funny facial proportions).

Maybe if you swapped the faces on 1, 3 and 4. 4 looks like someone has taken her printed photo and smudged it down with a wet thumb, her face is pointing down but her head is pointed relatively straight, which would work well on 3 who is looking down. 1's facial features are too small for her head but the right size for 4's and 3's facial features are too big for her head but would work on 1.

Would be scared of catching something on those three, even if real women.
2013-01-10 01:18:40 AM
1 votes:
I went to an interesting lecture on the subject by a notable researcher who also has adopted several tiny kids, and surely enough, a couple exhibited signs of being transgendered. (For all I know, that might be why he adopted them, though.) Anyway, he stressed that they are aware that their bodies don't match who they are at a very young age--like at three or four, even. He also said there's a very high suicide rate for the transgendered. Despite this fact, he said only one two-hour class in med school (specialization: psychiatry) is dedicated to the subject. Living with it can't be easy. I don't think of it as just an "identity crisis", per se. I am happy for the ones that make it to the other side. They go through so much pain to get to have something that the rest of us take for granted.
2013-01-10 01:09:25 AM
1 votes:

gweilo8888: The My Little Pony Killer: People sure do get upset at the things other people choose to do with their own bodies. There's really no need to get so bent out of shape over something that doesn't affect you in the least anyway. Really.

Not sure whom that was in reference to, but I'll bite.

Personally, I wasn't getting "bent out of shape", so much as being mildly disgusted by the medical "professionals" that fatten their wallets and help save up for their new Ferrari or the extension on their house by taking advantage of somebody who clearly has deep-rooted identity problems.

The job of a medical professional should be to help that person, and I'm sorry, but a bunch of pills and expensive, invasive surgery does not help them in the least. The underlying identity crisis remains, and that person hasn't been helped one bit -- you've just drained their wallet and bank account.

"Gender changes" (I use quotes because there is really no such thing) are to modern medicine as trepanning and bloodletting were to historical medicine: a complete nonsense that makes no sense on any level. It's the equivalent of buying a house with major structural problems, not touching the house at all, changing the landscaping in the gardens, and then declaring the whole thing to be fixed.

And given that the person at the center of it all who's so troubled isn't actually being helped at all -- they will, almost certainly, realize that they are in fact *still* trapped inside the body of a man, and will eventually have to deal with the identity issues they'd tried to hide from -- I find that more than a little bit sickening.


How did you acquire all of this expertise on transgendered people?
2013-01-10 01:07:05 AM
1 votes:

Kaybeck: gweilo8888: And on that topic, pills and/or surgery don't turn a man with an identity crisis into a woman, or vice versa. They turn a man with an identity crisis into a man with an identity crisis, some alien hormones in his bloodstream, and perhaps a somewhat-butchered body. They're no more changing their gender than they would be changing their species by taking a few hormones and having some chicken wings grafted on over their shoulder blades.

If it makes them feel better about themselves, great, but it would probably have been a much better investment of their money to get to the root of their identity crisis and help them deal with being who they really are, rather than help them stick their fingers in their ears, shout "La la la!" and pretend to be something they will never, ever be.


It'd be a better investment if you'd stop pretending you know anything and crack open a farking book once in a while.

During fetal development of a male, the fetus' testes sends testosterone to the brain. This shapes the brain into that of a male. For whatever reason, this did not happen with this individual. Therefore in this case we have a woman's brain in the body of a man.

And now you're less ignorant than you were when you typed out that post.

You're welcome.


Have you considered that by using an arrogant, condescending tone, you might have driven gweilo further into homophobia?

Folks, if you're really trying to win converts to your way of thinking, please try to remember an old adage about the relative attractant qualities of honey vs. vinegar on flies. Insulting somebody's intelligence is a good way to make them defiantly opposed to your way of thinking...
2013-01-10 01:02:24 AM
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: People sure do get upset at the things other people choose to do with their own bodies. There's really no need to get so bent out of shape over something that doesn't affect you in the least anyway. Really.


But it does affect them.  They want, then they learn that they shouldn't want.  The cognitive dissonance is what upsets them.
2013-01-10 12:58:55 AM
1 votes:
wait did someone just use the term "pansexual"...wtf is that?

Sorry but these people just are not right in the head, got a few nuts loose
2013-01-10 12:58:35 AM
1 votes:

gweilo8888: Subby: "Man transforms himself into a smoking hot woman more effeminate man, makes a neat seizure-inducing time lapse video of the three-year procedure"

Seriously, folks, if you're going to do one of these videos, replicate the same pose, exposure, lighting conditions, and clothing. This video made me feel nauseous, and that had nothing to do with the dude in it.

And on that topic, pills and/or surgery don't turn a man with an identity crisis into a woman, or vice versa. They turn a man with an identity crisis into a man with an identity crisis, some alien hormones in his bloodstream, and perhaps a somewhat-butchered body. They're no more changing their gender than they would be changing their species by taking a few hormones and having some chicken wings grafted on over their shoulder blades.

If it makes them feel better about themselves, great, but it would probably have been a much better investment of their money to get to the root of their identity crisis and help them deal with being who they really are, rather than help them stick their fingers in their ears, shout "La la la!" and pretend to be something they will never, ever be.


So... Pray the gay away then?
2013-01-10 12:27:40 AM
1 votes:

tricycleracer: Psycat: If it makes them more happy, more power to 'em...

I actually wonder more about the people who knowingly couple with these people.  I think they have the balance of the issues in the relationship.


Eh, some people are bisexual, some are pansexual, so the transgender thing doesn't pose a problem for them.

I had a friend some years ago who was a preop male to female transsexual. She was one who would never, ever pass for female, regardless of the amount of surgery. What she really wanted was to be with a straight man, but straight guys weren't interested.  She ended up dating gay guys and being truly unhappy (largely because gay guys treated her like a man).  She took a lot of drugs and drank a lot, trying to make a world in which she wasn't in the body of a masculine bald guy.  It was heartbreaking to see, and has made me feel for the struggle people with gender identity issues must face.
2013-01-10 12:26:51 AM
1 votes:

Myria: gweilo8888: And given that the person at the center of it all who's so troubled isn't actually being helped at all -- they will, almost certainly, realize that they are in fact *still* trapped inside the body of a man, and will eventually have to deal with the identity issues they'd tried to hide from -- I find that more than a little bit sickening.

At least they won't have to cover the mirrors in their house like I do in order to avoid crying...


Or will they? There's every chance they'll get to the end of that journey, and find themselves wanting to cry even more, because they're *still* not what they want to be (or believe themselves to be).

Better that they invest their time and energy in finding ways to like what they really are on the outside, and to come to terms with the fact that just because the physical manifestation of themselves doesn't look the same as the spiritual feeling of themselves, that it doesn't make them any less whole of a person.
2013-01-10 12:23:41 AM
1 votes:
There are no hot traps in this thread. Fark is dead.
2013-01-10 12:14:47 AM
1 votes:

Psycat: If it makes them more happy, more power to 'em...


I actually wonder more about the people who knowingly couple with these people.  I think they have the balance of the issues in the relationship.
2013-01-10 12:03:56 AM
1 votes:
Mac approves, but he's conflicted.
images3.wikia.nocookie.net
2013-01-10 12:00:59 AM
1 votes:
Took longer, but totally worth the wait...

lisawallerrogers.files.wordpress.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
static.guim.co.uk
2013-01-10 12:00:21 AM
1 votes:
I hope this makes him/her happy. While I think that gender is ultimately in your sex chromosomes, unless you're a true hermaphrodite (which is rare), I try to cut TG people a lot of slack. Personally, I'd prefer a woman with XX chromosomes who was female from birth, but hey, different strokes for different folks...
2013-01-09 11:58:15 PM
1 votes:
no. just no.
2013-01-09 11:52:00 PM
1 votes:

freetomato: She ends up looking exactly like my lost friend from 10th grade, Terry. Terry was very pretty but masculine, and in retrospect, closeted and unhappy.  It's been many years....this has kind of blown my mind.

I really need to look her/him up and give a hug.


i remember that dude. i'd hug him also
2013-01-09 11:50:35 PM
1 votes:
Since that's a UK site, I'm not even going to look.
2013-01-09 11:48:04 PM
1 votes:
'Wow, you make a much better woman than I ever will,' wrote a user by the name DarkStarBurning.

As a guy, I can say truer words have never been spoken.
2013-01-09 11:42:06 PM
1 votes:
Good for her. I hope she finds some happiness and/or comfort from this.
2013-01-09 11:40:23 PM
1 votes:
just because you're running a snes emulator doesn't make your PC a super nintendo. no, not even if you add an adapted so you can use the correct controller.
2013-01-09 11:38:34 PM
1 votes:
She sure likes those 5 or so t-shirts.
2013-01-09 11:35:47 PM
1 votes:

Molavian: Pre-op or post-op?

This is important to my plans for the next 10 minutes.


/Well..he just said the face ....so. Im guessing no boobies and twigs and berries still.
2013-01-09 11:34:36 PM
1 votes:
Three years and about $30,000 later...
2013-01-09 11:34:25 PM
1 votes:
i.dailymail.co.uk

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
Girl meets world?
2013-01-09 11:34:10 PM
1 votes:
Soon to be appearing on Cam4?
2013-01-09 11:29:39 PM
1 votes:

me texan: That took balls.


Done in one.

/"smoking hot", daily mail link? Yeah, not buying it
2013-01-09 11:28:44 PM
1 votes:
I wish I could do this, but my body is just too male for it to ever work =( I start crying when I think about this.
 
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