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(FOX6Now)   The appropriate action to take with all autistic patients is to have them on a leash, obviously   (fox6now.com) divider line 35
    More: Asinine, Milwaukee Whole Foods, Whole Foods Market, sensitivity training, patients  
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4884 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jan 2013 at 8:22 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-01-09 04:19:35 PM  
6 votes:
FTA: However, the spokeswoman also said Michael had eaten from the hot food bar before, and the store had always been understanding.  She also said the language used by the security guard was closer to: "you don't have to put him on a leash, but you have to watch him."

Suggested alternate headline: Family of autistic man uses Fox 6 to troll for free publicity, stuff
2013-01-09 08:32:04 PM  
4 votes:
Hah, can't believe this made it to Fark :P I side with the security guard in this case... The attention-seeking coont obviously wasn't watching the autistic guy like she SHOULD have been and oops, he got in trouble, now she whines to the world about how terrible it is to scold someone who was obviously stealing / ruining food.
2013-01-09 11:47:44 PM  
3 votes:

sleeps in trees: This shiat makes me sad. Big farking deal. Explain, offer to pay and the store understands. Get over you self absorbed lives IT IS A GROCERY STORE. I see little spoilt shiats gnawing on unbought Kinder Surprises daily.

When did compassion become a relic.

Compassion died the same day personal responsibility did.

If any of those unsupervised children you see daily ever get hurt due to being unsupervised, will their parent/guardian take responsibility for their inaction, or will they sue the store for not babysitting the brats themselves and warning the parents when they're doing something dangerous?

Since you mention Kinder Surprises, I think it's safe to say that you're not in the US, so you don't live in the middle of a "sue everyone for everything" culture. But the story does take place in the US, so the store really does have to worry about lawsuits regardless of the direction they take. Let the guy get hurt? Get sued for not being a babysitter. Let his sister know that she shouldn't let him run wild? Get targeted for a protest and smeared in the news based on imaginary quotes (and as soon as a lawyer convinces her to do so, sue them for violating the ADA).
2013-01-09 09:20:49 PM  
3 votes:
FTA
"It`s all much to the relief of the Goldman family- including Michael. His sister said he understands what`s going on, and is still upset by it."

If he understands this, he can understand not to eat out of the hot bar.
2013-01-09 09:00:10 PM  
3 votes:
I understand that when nature or god chooses to "gift" you with a "special" sort of person, it comes with a series of difficulties above and beyond that of normal parent/siblinghood.

People who choose to be involved in your life need to be understanding about these things. Hell, it's even reasonable to ask neighbors to cut you a little slack, or for your employer to maybe be a little accomodating for certain things. (Such as extra visits to the doctor/ meetings with special school folks/ whatever.)

However, for you to ASSUME that your little burden can run all over the face of the earth, behaving in ways that are socially unacceptable while you either smile indulgently (HE'S EXPRESSING HIMSELF THE ONLY WAY HE KNOWS HOW!) or become offended when people don't care to accomodate your little burden without warning..that's just straight up assholish.

This goes triply for those of you with a burden who "looks normal" (for lack of a better term). If I see some guy who looks 25 running around a bookstore and tossing books off the shelves while babbling, I'm not going to immediately say "Oh, he must be autistic." My assumption is that he's on drugs, or trying to be funny in some hipster sort of way.

You want people to treat you and your kid with dignity, teach your kid to behave with dignity. Even an autistic kid knows right from wrong, if you made the effort to teach him.
2013-01-09 08:38:33 PM  
3 votes:
Tard walks in and starts stuffing his face with food while at the hot bar

People tell him to stop and that she needs to watch her little burden closer

She gets outraged

What a backward society we have, when we let assholes like this woman drag her autistic brother into a store to run wild and slober over food, and yet we punish the people who try to keep him from doing so.
2013-01-10 02:23:01 PM  
2 votes:

common sense is an oxymoron: Except that he did the same thing in the past with the store's approval. The store would have been within their rights to chastise, ban, or even prosecute him the first time it happened. After store personnel established the precedent that it was okay, however, they were legally obligated not to arbitrarily change their minds.


Being "understanding" isn't the same as giving approval.  They were nice and gave the family a break because of his mental illness and let it go, but they didn't say "have at it every time you come".  The words aren't the same. The family was outraged that  guard who was from an outside company and was likely not aware of the situation wasn't as understanding as other guards/employees have been in the past.

BIG difference between saying "okay, we understand the situation and won't make as big of a deal out of this as we normally would given the circumstances of his health" and "okay, we understand, so let him do whatever he wants in the store and have all the free hot food he wants forever!"  Understanding isn't direct or implied permission to keep doing the same thing.
2013-01-10 02:07:49 AM  
2 votes:

Sillygoth: I understand that when nature or god chooses to "gift" you with a "special" sort of person, it comes with a series of difficulties above and beyond that of normal parent/siblinghood.

People who choose to be involved in your life need to be understanding about these things. Hell, it's even reasonable to ask neighbors to cut you a little slack, or for your employer to maybe be a little accomodating for certain things. (Such as extra visits to the doctor/ meetings with special school folks/ whatever.)

However, for you to ASSUME that your little burden can run all over the face of the earth, behaving in ways that are socially unacceptable while you either smile indulgently (HE'S EXPRESSING HIMSELF THE ONLY WAY HE KNOWS HOW!) or become offended when people don't care to accomodate your little burden without warning..that's just straight up assholish.

This goes triply for those of you with a burden who "looks normal" (for lack of a better term). If I see some guy who looks 25 running around a bookstore and tossing books off the shelves while babbling, I'm not going to immediately say "Oh, he must be autistic." My assumption is that he's on drugs, or trying to be funny in some hipster sort of way.

You want people to treat you and your kid with dignity, teach your kid to behave with dignity. Even an autistic kid knows right from wrong, if you made the effort to teach him.


The problem is that Autism seems to cover everything and that seems to include what would have been categorised in the past as mentally retarded. They need to narrow autism and actually call the people who are mentally retarded as such. This man at 26 who is unable to communicate and acts in a manner that you would expect from a 2 year old is retarded.
2013-01-09 11:01:41 PM  
2 votes:

baddogg: I want to tell you guys a story. I met a guy at 12 years of age diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome. He was extremely odd and would ramble on about things that have no bearing on the subject at hand. Physically normal. I have worked with him for 10 years, with the school system, and now you can chat with him as if there is nothing different about him. An incredible memory for maps, times, date and coordination of the previous. I can ask him a date 10 years before he was born and he can spit out the day of the week before I finish the question or any other event! Amazing!!! His peers love him and I have no doubt he will fit it beautifully, after another year or two.



After 10 years in the same job setting, he's developed a comfort zone and has learned some of the socialmhabits of his coworkers.


Autism = Asperger's NEVER


Which is like saying that a kid who needs leg braces for mild spastic diplegia can't possibly have cerebral palsy because he's not twitching in a wheelchair.
2013-01-09 09:26:59 PM  
2 votes:
As someone close to a person on the autism spectrum, I find Fark autism threads to be a good source of practice for maintaining self-control when presented with unbelievable levels of stupidity. Also, they're a good place to give my "ignore" button a good workout.
2013-01-09 08:52:59 PM  
2 votes:

Rockstone: voodoomedic: thank god asberger's doesn't exist anymore....I pray that we can keep these human chimps under better control

Though I'm aware you're trolling, Aspergers never should have been part of the Autism spectrum to begin with. As someone who has aspergers under the DSM-IV, (but not classified under the DSM-V), I have always thought this. People with Aspergers have social awkwardness, but do not act in the manner of this article, or in the article calbert linked.


It depends on how wide of a net you cast. Autism has covered a lot of symptoms with no common pathology to link them together. The criteria seems to be "well if it's a severe developmental disorder we can't link it to a genetic or congenital birth defect, or abuse, or chemical exposure, it's 'autism'." Then the logic extended with "ok, so if he/she doesn't display social behavior deemed TYPICAL, we'll just call that the same thing, but 'lighter'." Still no identified mechanism of pathology, much less one demonstrated to be common.

Both Aspergers AND autism encompass such a wide range of symptoms it seems implausible that they're all the same pathology. Different problems are being conflated and that's never good for advancing understanding and treatment.
2013-01-09 08:45:15 PM  
2 votes:

atomicmask: Tard walks in and starts stuffing his face with food while at the hot bar

People tell him to stop and that she needs to watch her little burden closer

She gets outraged

What a backward society we have, when we let assholes like this woman drag her autistic brother into a store to run wild and slober over food, and yet we punish the people who try to keep him from doing so.


i agree, what if he had stuck his hand in a hot pot of chai tea latte or something. even though 1) the sister should be the responsible party 2) it would still be considered stealing, they would try to sue
2013-01-09 08:36:39 PM  
2 votes:
The usual crap.

If you know your brother has autism then it is YOUR responsibility to keep extremely close tabs on him and when somebody suggests that you do so the response is not to act indignant and demand sensitivity training.

And no, offering to pay for the item after the fact does not excuse a damn thing.
2013-01-09 08:28:08 PM  
2 votes:

FunkOut: Why can't you harness a whole team of them to pull a sled?


Reinmen?
2013-01-09 08:19:44 PM  
2 votes:
I can't wait for the followup article when one of the young lad's teachers tells him to "break a leg" on his next test.
2013-01-11 03:18:00 PM  
1 votes:

common sense is an oxymoron: o'really: the estoppel legal issue, if true, sounds like an incredibly stupid interpretation of that law, at least in this case. ironic that the one insisting it would apply is named "common sense is an oxymoron". but who would bring this to court? the issue is the court of public opinion.


So rule of the mob > rule of law?

And thanks for not reading the posts where I stated that if the store had denied them the first time, there wouldn't have been a second time, or a third, or however many times this happened to establish the precedent that the store knew about this behavior and did nothing to stop it.


oh dear, you really do identify with your log-in name.

the issue as i stated it is that the technical laws are not important. no one would prosecute or sue. the issue is public perception, and the store's need to show that they are taking the complaint seriously now, if not in the past.

mob rule? haha. please tell me you are not a lawyer.

i did read your posts, thanks.
2013-01-11 12:30:25 PM  
1 votes:

serpent_sky: the ha ha guy: Keep in mind that the sister has already mangled the "leash" quote just to make her story sound better. Isn't it possible that the "understanding" was really just the employees not noticing the severity or frequency of what he was doing?

That's my thought. There is a world of difference between "put him on a leash" and "I'm not saying he has to be on a leash."   The latter is actually the guard saying "I am not making a ridiculous demand here, but come on, be reasonable like I am being with you." The former is offensive, but not what was said, so it's moot.

Kind of like someone may have seen him eating off the bar and said to the sister, "I understand the situation, but let's not have it happen again." And someone else, unaware of the first person maybe didn't make a big deal out of it as well.   Lots of people work in stores, they don't all work the same shiats, communicate about things like this, so forth and so on. There is no way anyone in the store ever said "It's totally cool if he eats out of the hot food bar, we understand, he's mentally ill and therefore, we are okay with it."   They may have been lenient and the woman decided that meant they were okay with it, but what store is okay with anyone grabbing free food any time they come in?


i'm pretty sure it's illegal (or at least against store policy) to grab food with your hands out of any buffet with hot food, due to germ contamination. that's aside from them losing money. whole foods charges by weight, you can't eat it til you pay, but the amount of money they would lose is surely negligible to them, the contamination is probably the bigger issue. at least it would be to me! i can't stand parents who let their little kids run their hands through buffet food.

the estoppel legal issue, if true, sounds like an incredibly stupid interpretation of that law, at least in this case. ironic that the one insisting it would apply is named "common sense is an oxymoron". but who would bring this to court? the issue is the court of public opinion.

this chick is playing the victim due to disability, and it's not even her who's the disabled one.
2013-01-10 03:53:36 PM  
1 votes:

the ha ha guy: Keep in mind that the sister has already mangled the "leash" quote just to make her story sound better. Isn't it possible that the "understanding" was really just the employees not noticing the severity or frequency of what he was doing?


That's my thought. There is a world of difference between "put him on a leash" and "I'm not saying he has to be on a leash."   The latter is actually the guard saying "I am not making a ridiculous demand here, but come on, be reasonable like I am being with you." The former is offensive, but not what was said, so it's moot.

Kind of like someone may have seen him eating off the bar and said to the sister, "I understand the situation, but let's not have it happen again." And someone else, unaware of the first person maybe didn't make a big deal out of it as well.   Lots of people work in stores, they don't all work the same shiats, communicate about things like this, so forth and so on. There is no way anyone in the store ever said "It's totally cool if he eats out of the hot food bar, we understand, he's mentally ill and therefore, we are okay with it."   They may have been lenient and the woman decided that meant they were okay with it, but what store is okay with anyone grabbing free food any time they come in?
2013-01-10 03:35:24 PM  
1 votes:

common sense is an oxymoron: Repeated "understanding" and indulgence of the behavior does indeed, legally, establish implied permission, whether you agree with the concept of estoppel or not.


That depends on what the store had said in the past. Did they encourage him? Did they choose to look the other way? Were they legitimately unaware?

Keep in mind that the sister has already mangled the "leash" quote just to make her story sound better. Isn't it possible that the "understanding" was really just the employees not noticing the severity or frequency of what he was doing?
2013-01-10 02:14:10 PM  
1 votes:
I see nothing wrong with saying "you don't have to put him on a leash, but you have to watch him" when it is an ongoing problem of him not only stealing the food, but potentially contaminating the food by grabbing it.  If it's a problem the store is aware of, and I assume the sister is also aware of, then maybe she should do something about it. Like not bring him to the store, or if she does, at least keep a close eye on him so he can't go and eat from the bar while he's in the store.

Of course, this is one of the reasons I hate self-serve food. I won't buy the pickles or olives at Fairway for that reason as well. They look great, but I am sure people grab them and snack on them or don't take proper sanitary measures when self-serving.

Anyway, the real thing that sucks is the guard who resigned and now needs a new job, and all the people who have to go through some bullshiat training because one lady was offended that someone said something to her special brother when she should have been responsible for him in the first place.
2013-01-10 07:40:07 AM  
1 votes:

StoPPeRmobile: atomicmask: Tard walks in and starts stuffing his face with food while at the hot bar

People tell him to stop and that she needs to watch her little burden closer

She gets outraged

What a backward society we have, when we let assholes like this woman drag her autistic brother into a store to run wild and slober over food, and yet we punish the people who try to keep him from doing so.

Why don't people treat, the grocery store with hot food, like a restaurant? We pay after we eat at a restaurant.

Why can't they put a farking cash register over there if it's such a problem?

fark them.


Uh, I'm familiar with that store and they DO have a separate register near by for the food area. That STILL does not excuse the airhead sister from not watching her brother properly when he decided to "help him self" and start eating right off the food bar. There IS such a thing as acceptable behavior in public places and obviously this guy needs to be restrained since he cannot be trained to adhere to rules properly.
2013-01-10 03:42:56 AM  
1 votes:
PsiChick:
"/If you have a disability or are different somehow, people will be an asshole to you."

To be honest, I work with disabled people and very very rarely see anyone being rude to them.

On the contrary, people go out of their way to help, and generally excuse rude or inappropriate behavior, whether the person is developmentally or physically disabled.

Now, kids can be jerks and bullies at school, but that's an entirely different thing.

Also, why is the guy in tfa a "patient"?
2013-01-10 02:40:47 AM  
1 votes:

Raoul Eaton: As someone close to a person on the autism spectrum, I find Fark autism threads to be a good source of practice for maintaining self-control when presented with unbelievable levels of stupidity. Also, they're a good place to give my "ignore" button a good workout.


i'm sure fark is getting to be a lonely place for you.

and might i add. seems to me like people are getting too offended easily. Guard tells autistic kid to stop eating food at the grocery store and now people at whole foods get sensitivity training. if it had been me eating food off the hot bar i would have been tazed, pepper sprayed, hauled off to jail and the people at whole foods would have laughed at me.

the lady should be thankful he was given preferential treatment.
2013-01-10 02:10:17 AM  
1 votes:

Guest: Sillygoth: I understand that when nature or god chooses to "gift" you with a "special" sort of person, it comes with a series of difficulties above and beyond that of normal parent/siblinghood.

People who choose to be involved in your life need to be understanding about these things. Hell, it's even reasonable to ask neighbors to cut you a little slack, or for your employer to maybe be a little accomodating for certain things. (Such as extra visits to the doctor/ meetings with special school folks/ whatever.)

However, for you to ASSUME that your little burden can run all over the face of the earth, behaving in ways that are socially unacceptable while you either smile indulgently (HE'S EXPRESSING HIMSELF THE ONLY WAY HE KNOWS HOW!) or become offended when people don't care to accomodate your little burden without warning..that's just straight up assholish.

This goes triply for those of you with a burden who "looks normal" (for lack of a better term). If I see some guy who looks 25 running around a bookstore and tossing books off the shelves while babbling, I'm not going to immediately say "Oh, he must be autistic." My assumption is that he's on drugs, or trying to be funny in some hipster sort of way.

You want people to treat you and your kid with dignity, teach your kid to behave with dignity. Even an autistic kid knows right from wrong, if you made the effort to teach him.

The problem is that Autism seems to cover everything and that seems to include what would have been categorised in the past as mentally retarded. They need to narrow autism and actually call the people who are mentally retarded as such. This man at 26 who is unable to communicate and acts in a manner that you would expect from a 2 year old is retarded.



The two aren't mutually exclusive.
2013-01-10 01:22:32 AM  
1 votes:

Big_Doofus: Gyrfalcon: common sense is an oxymoron: randomjsa: The usual crap.

If you know your brother has autism then it is YOUR responsibility to keep extremely close tabs on him and when somebody suggests that you do so the response is not to act indignant and demand sensitivity training.

And no, offering to pay for the item after the fact does not excuse a damn thing.


I know I'm responding to a random threadshiatter, but:

However, the spokeswoman also said Michael had eaten from the hot food bar before, and the store had always been understanding.

How was he, or his guardian, supposed to know that what was previously accepted behavior had suddenly become unacceptable?

Estoppel FT(legal)W.

I missed that. Looks like the store could be SOL on this one. Either that, or they forgot to tell the security guard to be a little more sensitive (which is a problem in itself). You don't get to change the rules on ANYBODY midstream and expect you'll be in the right, folks.

I seriously hope you're joking/trolling......

 Me, too. How were they supposed to know? Uhhhhh...Because this isn't acceptable behavior for anyone in any public place anywhere?
2013-01-10 12:23:24 AM  
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: common sense is an oxymoron: randomjsa: The usual crap.

If you know your brother has autism then it is YOUR responsibility to keep extremely close tabs on him and when somebody suggests that you do so the response is not to act indignant and demand sensitivity training.

And no, offering to pay for the item after the fact does not excuse a damn thing.


I know I'm responding to a random threadshiatter, but:

However, the spokeswoman also said Michael had eaten from the hot food bar before, and the store had always been understanding.

How was he, or his guardian, supposed to know that what was previously accepted behavior had suddenly become unacceptable?

Estoppel FT(legal)W.

I missed that. Looks like the store could be SOL on this one. Either that, or they forgot to tell the security guard to be a little more sensitive (which is a problem in itself). You don't get to change the rules on ANYBODY midstream and expect you'll be in the right, folks.


I seriously hope you're joking/trolling.

The store people had been nice in the past, so it's fine for him to keep eating whatever he wants without paying. You also have to know he ruined a bunch of food by grabbing the food with his bare hands.

Good for the security guard for finally putting a stop to this nonsense. His family needs to do a better job watching him if they insist on taking him out in public.
2013-01-09 11:15:10 PM  
1 votes:

Chibi Shinigami: I've got to assume that the security guard wasn't seriously suggesting a leash, but instead using it as a turn of phrase; e.g. "That girl needs to keep her boyfriend on a leash; he's going after other girls at this party."

They're not SERIOUSLY suggesting that. It just means to get control over.


Chibi Shinigami: I've got to assume that the security guard wasn't seriously suggesting a leash, but instead using it as a turn of phrase; e.g. "That girl needs to keep her boyfriend on a leash; he's going after other girls at this party."

They're not SERIOUSLY suggesting that. It just means to get control over.


According to the article, he said she DOESN'T have to keep him on a leash. Of course, if we learned anything from Trayvon/Zimmerman, it's that you must never say anything that could be rearranged with audio editing to sound racist, sexist, or ableist.

/including individual phonems
//so STFU and GBTW or DIAF
2013-01-09 10:42:54 PM  
1 votes:

randomjsa: The usual crap.

If you know your brother has autism then it is YOUR responsibility to keep extremely close tabs on him and when somebody suggests that you do so the response is not to act indignant and demand sensitivity training.

And no, offering to pay for the item after the fact does not excuse a damn thing.



I know I'm responding to a random threadshiatter, but:

However, the spokeswoman also said Michael had eaten from the hot food bar before, and the store had always been understanding.

How was he, or his guardian, supposed to know that what was previously accepted behavior had suddenly become unacceptable?

Estoppel FT(legal)W.
2013-01-09 09:02:35 PM  
1 votes:

sleeps in trees: This shiat makes me sad. Big farking deal. Explain, offer to pay and the store understands. Get over you self absorbed lives IT IS A GROCERY STORE. I see little spoilt shiats gnawing on unbought Kinder Surprises daily.

When did compassion become a relic.


True. Still think the sister should supervise him better especially since the article stated that he had done this before.
2013-01-09 09:00:04 PM  
1 votes:

Rockstone: Rockstone: voodoomedic: thank god asberger's doesn't exist anymore....I pray that we can keep these human chimps under better control

Though I'm aware you're trolling, Aspergers never should have been part of the Autism spectrum to begin with. As someone who has aspergers under the DSM-IV, (but not classified under the DSM-V), I have always thought this. People with Aspergers have social awkwardness, but do not act in the manner of this article, or in the article calbert linked.

They do however fail at previewing though...


I agree with you. People with Aspergers can function more independently ( self-care) and learn while individual high on the autism spectrum are most likely so severely impaired they cannot live and work without supervision.
2013-01-09 08:52:54 PM  
1 votes:

Yes this is dog: Indubitably: Helmet?

To leash.

;)


"I bnneed to sssthcure my bbb-oundaries. My helmet helps."
2013-01-09 08:44:55 PM  
1 votes:

voodoomedic: thank god asberger's doesn't exist anymore....I pray that we can keep these human chimps under better control


Though I'm aware you're trolling, Aspergers never should have been part of the Autism spectrum to begin with. As someone who has aspergers under the DSM-IV, (but not classified under the DSM-V), I have always thought this. People with Aspergers have social awkwardness, but do not act in the manner of this article, or in the article calbert linked.
2013-01-09 08:36:07 PM  
1 votes:
Maybe she could just leave him where he really belongs while she goes shopping, in his cage.
2013-01-09 08:31:59 PM  
1 votes:
What an autistic woman may look like

farm3.staticflickr.com
2013-01-09 08:27:27 PM  
1 votes:
Why can't you harness a whole team of them to pull a sled?
 
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