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(Fox Sports)   If you had plans to go to the 2013 Baseball Hall of Fame induction ceremony, you might not want to read this article   (msn.foxsports.com) divider line 257
    More: Interesting, Baseball Hall of Fame, Hall of Fames, Tom Glavine, Jeff Bagwell, Tony Gwynn, Greg Maddux, Sammy Sosa, Mike Piazza  
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1235 clicks; posted to Sports » on 09 Jan 2013 at 3:46 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-09 03:48:50 PM
They should add Bo and Deion just for the LULZ.
 
2013-01-09 03:49:10 PM
My only thoughts are sucks for Biggio.
 
2013-01-09 03:49:32 PM
If there are two things all of us can agree on at this point it's that there was an injury to RG3 and there was a Baseball HoF vote.

Neither appears to be creating any warm fuzzies or quality control in the greenlight queue.
 
2013-01-09 03:50:39 PM
I'll just copy/paste from the other thread:

1. As a Mets fan, and as someone who likes there to be at least a shred of non-circumstantial evidence before assuming guilt, the fact that Piazza didn't get in pisses me off to no end. Take out the Mets part and the same is true for Bagwell, who should have been in years ago.

2. As someone who completely agrees with this Bill Simmons column (and thus is probably in the minority), I think it's ridiculous that Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, etc. aren't in.

3. Not even Biggio?

4. Edgar at 35%?

5. Lofton off the ballot?
 
2013-01-09 03:51:14 PM
baseball writers are farking idiots. who the fark cares if someone used steroids?
 
2013-01-09 03:52:34 PM
That sure sucks*.
 
2013-01-09 03:53:04 PM
content7.flixster.com
 
2013-01-09 03:55:35 PM
But I thought Clemens was found innocent???

Surely the acquittal would have satisfied the voters right?
 
2013-01-09 03:56:05 PM
And they never will get in. Good.
 
2013-01-09 03:57:45 PM

A Fark Handle: baseball writers are farking idiots. who the fark cares if someone used steroids?


If everybody was using, yes, I would say who cares, but everybody wasn't. They cheated, the cheated the game. If Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose aren't in, they don't get in either.
 
2013-01-09 03:57:59 PM
I'll be fascinated by Maddux in next years' vote.  I understand the case for not voting for this group of players (except Piazza), but next year it will be ridiculous if no one from the steroids era can be considered.

My phony ballot:
Bonds
Clemens
Piazza
Raines
 
2013-01-09 04:01:35 PM
So most are saying Biggio will get in eventually, maybe next year.  So why is he good enough to get in next year but not this year?  How are his stats going to improve, how will his career be altered over the next 12 months?  Do writers need more time to consider his merits and put his career into perspective?  They've already had FIVE YEARS.  I just picked Biggio as an example, it happens all the time.  Either you're good enough after your five-year eligibility period or you're not, what point is there in dicking around with it for a few more years?  It's just elitist baseball writer bullshiat, deciding exactly WHEN they think you're worthy.
 
2013-01-09 04:01:49 PM
It's ridiculous that Piazza didn't get in and a whisper campaign that he did steroids kept him out (along with Bonds and Clemens dragging him down).

To me he had a pretty "typical" career where his skills exponentially diminished as he reached the end of his career, there was no second-wind to it a la those other guys.
 
2013-01-09 04:07:41 PM
'Nobody' was the correct choice this year.
 
2013-01-09 04:08:22 PM
As someone who would root for a breakout of Hilariously Explosive Diarrhea during a Dodgers-Mets game even I think it's utterly ridiculous that Piazza didn't get in.
 
2013-01-09 04:09:18 PM
How the fark is Don Freaking Mattingly not in the HoF yet?!
 
2013-01-09 04:10:17 PM

FreakinB: 1. As a Mets fan, and as someone who likes there to be at least a shred of non-circumstantial evidence before assuming guilt, the fact that Piazza didn't get in pisses me off to no end. Take out the Mets part and the same is true for Bagwell, who should have been in years ago.


FreakinB: 5. Lofton off the ballot?


These two things are bothering me as well. Lofton deserved more than one year on the ballot. I'm not saying I'd put him in, but he should have had much, much more support.

And it's criminal that Piazza and Bags aren't in. Just because someone is good at hitting a baseball does not mean that they took steroids.
 
2013-01-09 04:12:39 PM
Feeling kind of bad for Jack Morris.  10 inning World Series Game 7 shutout.  Decent enough career, but it may be the lack of accolades there which kept him out.
 
2013-01-09 04:14:07 PM

Elandriel: Feeling kind of bad for Jack Morris.  10 inning World Series Game 7 shutout.  Decent enough career, but it may be the lack of accolades there which kept him out.


He's Hall of Very Good for me. The WS game was nice, but overall I don't think he measures up.
 
rka
2013-01-09 04:14:38 PM

A Fark Handle: baseball writers are farking idiots. who the fark cares if someone used steroids?


Who the fark cares if someone gets into the HoF in 2013?
 
2013-01-09 04:14:42 PM

RangerTaylor: How the fark is Don Freaking Mattingly not in the HoF yet?!


Because it's not the Hall of Very Good.
 
2013-01-09 04:14:42 PM
They should just eliminate the writers vote. The vet committee is going to take care of business anyway, so why not just have it in the hands of the guys who played instead of the guys who are picking who was the easiest interview and was nice to them.

farking Todd Walker received a vote and the same writer who voted for Walker didn't vote for Biggio. Total joke.

Also, 8 guys voted for Clemens but didn't vote for Bonds. Have fun explaining that.
 
2013-01-09 04:16:18 PM

Elandriel: Feeling kind of bad for Jack Morris.  10 inning World Series Game 7 shutout.  Decent enough career, but it may be the lack of accolades there which kept him out.


It's not the lack of accolades. It's the whole "not being an all-time great pitcher" thing

/One game is not enough
 
2013-01-09 04:16:31 PM
Dale Murphy and Craig Biggio should have made it. Murphy is the same if not incredibly similar to the stats of Jim Rice and Rice was hated by writers yet Murphy was liked. It's probably due to the fact that Murphy didn't have that 'dominant' over a 5 year period where he was 'the man'.

I agree with the other people above- Biggio not making it is just stupid yet even Larkin took a few ago before he got in last year.

I think the rules should change to where if you voted for a player previously to get in they keep that vote attached to them and each year their totals can only go up until their eligibility goes away. If at one time you the baseball writer thought they should get in they should be in then- you can't take back your vote- you already made up your mind at one time.
 
rka
2013-01-09 04:16:50 PM

Funzo: Have fun explaining that


No one has to.
 
2013-01-09 04:17:55 PM
Elandriel: Decent enough career, but it may be the lack of accolades there which kept him out.

Voters have an almost 4 ERA staring them in the face. That says a lot more about the entirety of his career than one World Series game.

I'm kind of in the same place with Biggio. Being a very good player for a lot of years doesn't make you a great player. I can allow that he was probably the 2nd best 2B of the era after Alomar, though.
 
2013-01-09 04:19:23 PM

Daniels: Being a very good player for a lot of years doesn't make you a great player.


Actually, that sort of is what makes you a great player.
 
2013-01-09 04:19:55 PM

Peaceboy: So most are saying Biggio will get in eventually, maybe next year.  So why is he good enough to get in next year but not this year?  How are his stats going to improve, how will his career be altered over the next 12 months?  Do writers need more time to consider his merits and put his career into perspective?  They've already had FIVE YEARS.  I just picked Biggio as an example, it happens all the time.  Either you're good enough after your five-year eligibility period or you're not, what point is there in dicking around with it for a few more years?  It's just elitist baseball writer bullshiat, deciding exactly WHEN they think you're worthy.


Players generally go up in votes after their first year.  I suspect there's something of a herd mentality, or that Biggio is 6th or 7th on some people's ballots, and next year one of their votes from this year isn't eligible anymore.  So Biggio becomes the 5th choice and he makes it in.  I strongly suspect Piazza is the same way.

And yeah, it's criminal that Lofton won't get another vote.

FreakinB: 2. As someone who completely agrees with this Bill Simmons column (and thus is probably in the minority), I think it's ridiculous that Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, etc. aren't in.


Simmons is usually a good read on baseball as long as the Sox aren't the main topic.  That being said, I can't agree with him.  Even putting an asterisk on them while voting them in is still rewarding them, and the ballot spot keeps deserving people like Lofton out of contention.
 
2013-01-09 04:20:03 PM

mitchcumstein1: A Fark Handle: baseball writers are farking idiots. who the fark cares if someone used steroids?

If everybody was using, yes, I would say who cares, but everybody wasn't. They cheated, the cheated the game. If Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose aren't in, they don't get in either.


Everybody wasn't doctoring the baseball, so Gaylord Perry shouldn't be in.

Oh right...some cheating is okay in baseball. They should make a list of acceptable ways of cheating and non acceptable ways of cheating just so the players know for sure.
 
2013-01-09 04:20:19 PM

A Fark Handle: baseball writers are farking idiots. who the fark cares if someone used steroids?


I bet you're one of the guys who gets in an uproar over spygate
 
2013-01-09 04:21:31 PM
I don't know if it's been tossed into any of these threads because I haven't been in all of them, but Baseball Reference tweeted out a link to an old article that kind of summarizes how the voting fractures. (And this is from 2010.) Lends credence to the idea that everybody suffers in the end.
 
2013-01-09 04:21:43 PM

mitchcumstein1: Daniels: Being a very good player for a lot of years doesn't make you a great player.

Actually, that sort of is what makes you a great player.


The problem for Jack Morris is that we wan't even "very good". He was average. His career ERA+ was 105, barely better than average. In 7 of his 17 years as a pitcher with over 100 innings, he had a below average ERA.
 
2013-01-09 04:23:50 PM

mitchcumstein1: A Fark Handle: baseball writers are farking idiots. who the fark cares if someone used steroids?

If everybody was using, yes, I would say who cares, but everybody wasn't. They cheated, the cheated the game. If Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose aren't in, they don't get in either.


well let them in too.
 
2013-01-09 04:24:44 PM

Flacman: Dale Murphy and Craig Biggio should have made it. Murphy is the same if not incredibly similar to the stats of Jim Rice and Rice was hated by writers yet Murphy was liked. It's probably due to the fact that Murphy didn't have that 'dominant' over a 5 year period where he was 'the man'.


82-87 included MVPs in 82 and 83. His numbers for that time period were pretty outstanding HR and Run Production wise...
 
2013-01-09 04:24:52 PM

rka: A Fark Handle: baseball writers are farking idiots. who the fark cares if someone used steroids?

Who the fark cares if someone gets into the HoF in 2013?


good counterpoint. no, seriously.
 
2013-01-09 04:25:30 PM

rka: Funzo: Have fun explaining that

No one has to.


Well, I guess that makes it all better and the process is just awesome, then.

Actually, his name is Mike Dyer, a New York writer, so I'm sure the fine fans in that city will just let this slide because it doesn't reflect on his expertise at all.
 
2013-01-09 04:27:55 PM
I wonder if any of the baseball writers wrote "Allen West" on their ballots.
 
2013-01-09 04:32:21 PM

natural316: A Fark Handle: baseball writers are farking idiots. who the fark cares if someone used steroids?

I bet you're one of the guys who gets in an uproar over spygate


nope. don't really care. if you're not cheating, you're not trying.
 
2013-01-09 04:32:38 PM

Elandriel: Feeling kind of bad for Jack Morris.


Don't. He gets to spend 14 more years on the ballot than several pitchers who are significantly better than him, like, say, David Cone.

Seems like he's had it pretty good, all things considered.
 
2013-01-09 04:36:46 PM

DamnYankees: mitchcumstein1: Daniels: Being a very good player for a lot of years doesn't make you a great player.

Actually, that sort of is what makes you a great player.

The problem for Jack Morris is that we wan't even "very good". He was average. His career ERA+ was 105, barely better than average. In 7 of his 17 years as a pitcher with over 100 innings, he had a below average ERA.


I thought we were talking about Biggio there?

A Fark Handle: mitchcumstein1: A Fark Handle: baseball writers are farking idiots. who the fark cares if someone used steroids?

If everybody was using, yes, I would say who cares, but everybody wasn't. They cheated, the cheated the game. If Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose aren't in, they don't get in either.

well let them in too.


Fine, once they get in, those other assholes can get in.
 
2013-01-09 04:39:05 PM

mitchcumstein1: I thought we were talking about Biggio there?


Oh, I thought Morris. Biggio is a legitimately great player.
 
2013-01-09 04:39:10 PM
The moral of the story is:  don't get caught.  Sportswriters, fans, and owners will fawn over you as long as you are succeeding no matter how obviously juiced you are.

www.choopacabra.com

If you get caught, then we wag our fingers at you and say "how could you?!"
 
2013-01-09 04:41:39 PM

Rapmaster2000: The moral of the story is:  don't get caught.  Sportswriters, fans, and owners will fawn over you as long as you are succeeding no matter how obviously juiced you are.

[www.choopacabra.com image 610x400]

If you get caught, then we wag our fingers at you and say "how could you?!"


Actually, it sees like the opposite. Guys like Bagwell & Piazza never got caught, most likely because they never did anything to get caught doing. They're not getting in.

But we've got plenty of admitted users of amphetamines in the Hall. Shoot, Hank Aaron admits to doing them (though he says it was only once) in his autobiography.
 
2013-01-09 04:42:15 PM
I understand Morris based on merit, but not Biggio or Bagwell.
 
2013-01-09 04:44:19 PM

SilentStrider: I understand Morris based on merit, but not Biggio or Bagwell.


What is this I don't even
 
2013-01-09 04:44:46 PM

FreakinB: I'll just copy/paste from the other thread:

1. As a Mets fan, and as someone who likes there to be at least a shred of non-circumstantial evidence before assuming guilt, the fact that Piazza didn't get in pisses me off to no end. Take out the Mets part and the same is true for Bagwell, who should have been in years ago.

2. As someone who completely agrees with this Bill Simmons column (and thus is probably in the minority), I think it's ridiculous that Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, etc. aren't in.

3. Not even Biggio?

4. Edgar at 35%?

5. Lofton off the ballot?


DH isn't a position.
Lofton was 1-dimensional.
 
2013-01-09 04:45:20 PM

Sandor at the Zoo: SilentStrider: I understand Morris based on merit, but not Biggio or Bagwell.

What is this I don't even


I've read that sentence 5 times now, and each time I've just assumed I'm reading it completely wrong. Because it's that or have a stroke.
 
2013-01-09 04:45:56 PM

Rapmaster2000: Sportswriters, fans, and owners will fawn over you as long as you are succeeding no matter how obviously juiced you are.


And deify you because they're so f*cking stupid.

"Oh look, that person magically healed much faster than anyone can be expected to. THEY'RE SUPERHUMAN!"

/WHAT THE F*CK THEY WERE USING DRUGS? I AM SHOCKED AND APPALLED THAT THERE ARE NOT THIS MANY SUPERHUMAN PEOPLE
 
2013-01-09 04:46:59 PM

HaywoodJablonski: DH isn't a position.


Seems to be one in the rulebook.

HaywoodJablonski: Lofton was 1-dimensional.


If that dimension was "being pretty good", I agree.

Otherwise, I'm somewhat confused. Speed, defense, good OBP, even a .299 BA if you insist on using that for some reason. He really had everything except power.
 
2013-01-09 04:47:14 PM

Peaceboy: So most are saying Biggio will get in eventually, maybe next year.  So why is he good enough to get in next year but not this year?  How are his stats going to improve, how will his career be altered over the next 12 months?  Do writers need more time to consider his merits and put his career into perspective?  They've already had FIVE YEARS.  I just picked Biggio as an example, it happens all the time.  Either you're good enough after your five-year eligibility period or you're not, what point is there in dicking around with it for a few more years?  It's just elitist baseball writer bullshiat, deciding exactly WHEN they think you're worthy.


Undersigned by me
 
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