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(CSN Bay Area)   A shorter title could have been: "Why I hate baseball"   (csnbayarea.com) divider line 51
    More: Dumbass, Barry Bonds, Hall of Fames, Tony Gwynn, Greg Maddux, Jeff Bagwell, Jim Rice, Rafael Palmeiro, Mike Piazza  
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2179 clicks; posted to Sports » on 09 Jan 2013 at 2:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-09 01:36:09 PM
I don't care is 500 other players were doing it, or that he "beat the rap" on the worst charges.  OJ "beat the rap" too, but we all know he did it anyway.  Bonds is a cheat, and a liar on top of it.

IMO, the only known steroid user that deserves a place in the HOF is Petite.  At least he manned up and admitted it.
 
2013-01-09 01:45:49 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Petite


what about A-Roid?
 
2013-01-09 01:54:24 PM

ManateeGag: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Petite

what about A-Roid?


To be honest, I can't remember if he came clean or not.  If he did, then good on him for manning up too.

/I probably spelled Pettit's name wrong too
//oops
 
2013-01-09 02:03:41 PM
I know I'm in the minority, but I'm in the "let them all in" camp. They're not the first players to cheat, and I think it's petty to act like they didn't do all those things on the basis that it wasn't 100% pure. And it's not like people in normal walks of life wouldn't go for an edge in their jobs if they could. Make a note on the plaque and be done with it. Bill Simmons actually summed up my thoughts quite nicely.

And it continues to be a travesty that Bagwell isn't already in. At least for Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Clemens, etc. there's actual evidence. Maybe I missed something, but I've never seen a shred of evidence against Bagwell beyond "he was a power hitter in that era".
 
2013-01-09 02:04:10 PM
"NEWSFLASH" - BAY AREA SPORTSWRITER VOTES FOR BONDS FOR HOF.
 
2013-01-09 02:09:05 PM
Green, eh?  I'll get the popcorn going...
 
2013-01-09 02:18:12 PM
Bonds WAS a HOFer before he started doing steroids.  That is EXACTLY why he shouldn't get in for a long time.  He could have taken the high road but his ego got in the way.  Hell, if he'd come clean I'd have a bit more sympathy but he hasn't so I don't.
 
2013-01-09 02:32:52 PM
Reposted from earlier, red thread:

Hey, it's a great day for sportswriters who

a) didn't notice in the 90s that every Major Leaguer doubled in size
b) noticed, but didn't think writing anything about it was worth jeopardizing their clubhouse access

to get on some high horses and make bold statements about the integrity of the game.
 
2013-01-09 02:36:46 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: ManateeGag: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Petite

what about A-Roid?

To be honest, I can't remember if he came clean or not.  If he did, then good on him for manning up too.

/I probably spelled Pettit's name wrong too
//oops


Pettitte. A-Rod admitted to using HGH. Close enough. He has to strike a delicate PR balance for as long as writers continue to punish PED-users.

Which means they should really just stop this sanctimonious nonsense. Consider the players in the context of the era they played in.

/still torn about letting in Bonds
//could it be argued that, in service to his ego, he did more to damage baseball than raise it?
 
2013-01-09 02:58:02 PM
..and it looks like the writers decided to be douche bags and vote NONE of them in this year.

Fark the BBWA - they should have their voting rights canceled for being spineless dicks.
 
2013-01-09 03:04:38 PM

FreakinB: I know I'm in the minority, but I'm in the "let them all in" camp. They're not the first players to cheat, and I think it's petty to act like they didn't do all those things on the basis that it wasn't 100% pure. And it's not like people in normal walks of life wouldn't go for an edge in their jobs if they could. Make a note on the plaque and be done with it. Bill Simmons actually summed up my thoughts quite nicely.

And it continues to be a travesty that Bagwell isn't already in. At least for Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Clemens, etc. there's actual evidence. Maybe I missed something, but I've never seen a shred of evidence against Bagwell beyond "he was a power hitter in that era".


I agree that other cheaters get ignored. Gaylord Perry's HoF plaque mentions the cheating. But I am willing to discount the most roided seasons a little. Which is to say, if I were voting, I might vote for everyone but Sosa.

/Actually, I wouldn't vote for Clemens, but that's purely personal bias.
 
2013-01-09 03:05:44 PM
I love baseball.

I hate the BBWA and the HOF.

Allowing Santo in only after his death was the last straw.
 
2013-01-09 03:08:34 PM

BunkoSquad: Reposted from earlier, red thread:

Hey, it's a great day for sportswriters who

a) didn't notice in the 90s that every Major Leaguer doubled in size
b) noticed, but didn't think writing anything about it was worth jeopardizing their clubhouse access

to get on some high horses and make bold statements about the integrity of the game.


Olney was very entertaining on ESPN today, stating that it shouldn't be held against these players because the league clearly knew about it and didn't do anything about it for 2 years.

Not to say the players are completely innocent or anything, its just that everybody is on their high horse condemning them now but not when the same people were in the business 10 or whatever years ago.
 
2013-01-09 03:09:43 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: To be honest, I can't remember if he came clean or not.  If he did, then good on him for manning up too.


nope. He blamed it on his cousin or someone he trusted injecting him with mysterious things. Sounds legit.

/good thing he practices his poker face
 
2013-01-09 03:13:26 PM
If the writers had done their job as journalists, they would wouldn't need to be biatching about having to vote for steroid users.
 
2013-01-09 03:13:37 PM
tl;dr
 
2013-01-09 03:20:14 PM
Eh, fark it, let em in. Write whatever you want about them on their plaques, but like it or not, they were the best and most entertaining players from their era.
 
2013-01-09 03:21:32 PM

Dafatone: FreakinB: I know I'm in the minority, but I'm in the "let them all in" camp. They're not the first players to cheat, and I think it's petty to act like they didn't do all those things on the basis that it wasn't 100% pure. And it's not like people in normal walks of life wouldn't go for an edge in their jobs if they could. Make a note on the plaque and be done with it. Bill Simmons actually summed up my thoughts quite nicely.

And it continues to be a travesty that Bagwell isn't already in. At least for Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Clemens, etc. there's actual evidence. Maybe I missed something, but I've never seen a shred of evidence against Bagwell beyond "he was a power hitter in that era".

I agree that other cheaters get ignored. Gaylord Perry's HoF plaque mentions the cheating. But I am willing to discount the most roided seasons a little. Which is to say, if I were voting, I might vote for everyone but Sosa.

/Actually, I wouldn't vote for Clemens, but that's purely personal bias.


That's fair. And as much as I hate Clemens*, I'd still have to vote him in.

*He's one of, like, five athletes ever that I actually hate. The list is basically him, John Rocker, Dale Hunter, Darcy Tucker...maybe a couple I'm forgetting
 
2013-01-09 03:22:23 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: ManateeGag: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Petite

what about A-Roid?

To be honest, I can't remember if he came clean or not.  If he did, then good on him for manning up too.

/I probably spelled Pettit's name wrong too
//oops


He didn't. He Melkied, which is a new verb that means "coming up with a god-awful excuse in attempt to shed any personal blame".
 
2013-01-09 03:25:47 PM

BunkoSquad: Reposted from earlier, red thread:

Hey, it's a great day for sportswriters who

a) didn't notice in the 90s that every Major Leaguer doubled in size
b) noticed, but didn't think writing anything about it was worth jeopardizing their clubhouse access

to get on some high horses and make bold statements about the integrity of the game.


So -- Much -- THIS
 
2013-01-09 03:26:48 PM

FreakinB: Dafatone: FreakinB: I know I'm in the minority, but I'm in the "let them all in" camp. They're not the first players to cheat, and I think it's petty to act like they didn't do all those things on the basis that it wasn't 100% pure. And it's not like people in normal walks of life wouldn't go for an edge in their jobs if they could. Make a note on the plaque and be done with it. Bill Simmons actually summed up my thoughts quite nicely.

And it continues to be a travesty that Bagwell isn't already in. At least for Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Clemens, etc. there's actual evidence. Maybe I missed something, but I've never seen a shred of evidence against Bagwell beyond "he was a power hitter in that era".

I agree that other cheaters get ignored. Gaylord Perry's HoF plaque mentions the cheating. But I am willing to discount the most roided seasons a little. Which is to say, if I were voting, I might vote for everyone but Sosa.

/Actually, I wouldn't vote for Clemens, but that's purely personal bias.

That's fair. And as much as I hate Clemens*, I'd still have to vote him in.

*He's one of, like, five athletes ever that I actually hate. The list is basically him, John Rocker, Dale Hunter, Darcy Tucker...maybe a couple I'm forgetting



You forgot Brett Boone. Man, I really hate that guy.
 
2013-01-09 03:33:02 PM
They should have just elected Mark Grace, called it a slumpbuster, and then let everyone in next year.
 
2013-01-09 03:35:02 PM
Palmeiro dipped down to 8.8%. He might fall off the ballot completely next year.

Oh, and thank God that the Hall remains Morris-less for at least one more year
 
2013-01-09 03:37:19 PM

FreakinB: And as much as I hate Clemens*, I'd still have to vote him in.

*He's one of, like, five athletes ever that I actually hate. The list is basically him, John Rocker, Dale Hunter, Darcy Tucker...maybe a couple I'm forgetting


John Rocker-hate stems more from your humanity than from whatever love of baseball/sports you have. Hell, I'm a Braves fan, and I think they should just remove him from their record books entirely (or change his name to "John 'Big, Useless Waste of a Pitching Arm' Rocker").

// or "7-Train Rocker"
 
2013-01-09 03:37:34 PM

WTF Indeed: If the writers had done their job as journalists, they would wouldn't need to be biatching about having to vote for steroid users.



Exactly.

These self-righteous dickbags need to stop their collective whining about steroids and the players who took them.
 
2013-01-09 03:37:36 PM

FreakinB: Dafatone: FreakinB: I know I'm in the minority, but I'm in the "let them all in" camp. They're not the first players to cheat, and I think it's petty to act like they didn't do all those things on the basis that it wasn't 100% pure. And it's not like people in normal walks of life wouldn't go for an edge in their jobs if they could. Make a note on the plaque and be done with it. Bill Simmons actually summed up my thoughts quite nicely.

And it continues to be a travesty that Bagwell isn't already in. At least for Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Clemens, etc. there's actual evidence. Maybe I missed something, but I've never seen a shred of evidence against Bagwell beyond "he was a power hitter in that era".

I agree that other cheaters get ignored. Gaylord Perry's HoF plaque mentions the cheating. But I am willing to discount the most roided seasons a little. Which is to say, if I were voting, I might vote for everyone but Sosa.

/Actually, I wouldn't vote for Clemens, but that's purely personal bias.

That's fair. And as much as I hate Clemens*, I'd still have to vote him in.

*He's one of, like, five athletes ever that I actually hate. The list is basically him, John Rocker, Dale Hunter, Darcy Tucker...maybe a couple I'm forgetting


It's weird that I've gone from actually hating Chipper to... kinda liking him. Kinda. He makes for a good villain, as opposed to an evil villain, like Rocker.
 
2013-01-09 03:39:44 PM
Bonds is a no-brainer. Anyone who had that kind of impact on the game is worthy of being in the hall of fame, and if the HOF wants to put his disgrace up there on the wall right next to his glory in order to tell the full story for future generations, then I think that would be a great idea. But he belongs in a museum.

Palmeiro was never great at any point in his career - the only thing he has going for him is being pretty good for a long period of time. Not exactly what I consider "hall of fame" material.

If we're even talking about Larry Walker then it's just a "hall of guys who played baseball once".
 
2013-01-09 03:45:14 PM

BunkoSquad: Reposted from earlier, red thread:

Hey, it's a great day for sportswriters who

a) didn't notice in the 90s that every Major Leaguer doubled in size
b) noticed, but didn't think writing anything about it was worth jeopardizing their clubhouse access

to get on some high horses and make bold statements about the integrity of the game.


Yeah, this is important to remember. The BBWAA looked the other way the entire farking time that all this was going on. And to be fair, so did most of the fans.

Now, I'm against steroids in baseball, and I get being upset about what those guys did. But at the same time, we as fans need to realize that we didn't help matters and the BBWAA needs to realize that they were basically complicit in the whole damn thing
 
2013-01-09 03:45:32 PM

The_Great_Hambino: You forgot Brett Boone. Man, I really hate that guy.


Ah, come on, who hates Brett Boone? Any guy who can flip a baseball bat like that should get a lifetime pass.
 
2013-01-09 03:45:40 PM

Dafatone: It's weird that I've gone from actually hating Chipper to... kinda liking him. Kinda. He makes for a good villain, as opposed to an evil villain, like Rocker.


Same with me. I still do the whole Laaaaaary thing but that's as far as it goes. He's officially in Wes Mantooth "Goddammit do I respect you" territory.
 
2013-01-09 03:46:00 PM
I wouldn't call Baggarly a dumb ass. He's a multi-day champion on Jeopardy!
 
2013-01-09 03:48:19 PM

cefm: Palmeiro was never great at any point in his career - the only thing he has going for him is being pretty good for a long period of time. Not exactly what I consider "hall of fame" material.


From 1990-2002, Palmeiro hit .294/.378/.540 for a 140 OPS+. That's much better than "pretty good".
 
2013-01-09 03:48:44 PM

cefm: If we're even talking about Larry Walker then it's just a "hall of guys who played baseball once".


THAT.

I think part of the 5-year waiting period is to let their careers take shape as a whole, rather than having their swan song season(s) fresh in your mind as you vote. When you bring up a name from The Ballot, if I don't think to myself "I hated it when my team played theirs; this guy KILLED us" or "I LOVED having this guy on my team!", he doesn't belong.

Larry Walker had maybe one HoF season if you put his best 162 games together. From what I recall, he was streaky.

// and I feel bad not supporting Egger for the Hall
// b-b-b-but DH!
// yeah, he wasn't even Junior Griffey, let alone Frank Thomas
 
2013-01-09 03:53:56 PM

FreakinB: I know I'm in the minority, but I'm in the "let them all in" camp. They're not the first players to cheat, and I think it's petty to act like they didn't do all those things on the basis that it wasn't 100% pure. And it's not like people in normal walks of life wouldn't go for an edge in their jobs if they could. Make a note on the plaque and be done with it. Bill Simmons actually summed up my thoughts quite nicely.

And it continues to be a travesty that Bagwell isn't already in. At least for Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Clemens, etc. there's actual evidence. Maybe I missed something, but I've never seen a shred of evidence against Bagwell beyond "he was a power hitter in that era".


Here's the thing: a lot of these writers stuck their collective heads in the sand long after it was obvious that there was a massive amount of cheating going on.

Their outrage is bogus.
 
2013-01-09 03:54:17 PM

Dr Dreidel: cefm: If we're even talking about Larry Walker then it's just a "hall of guys who played baseball once".

THAT.

I think part of the 5-year waiting period is to let their careers take shape as a whole, rather than having their swan song season(s) fresh in your mind as you vote. When you bring up a name from The Ballot, if I don't think to myself "I hated it when my team played theirs; this guy KILLED us" or "I LOVED having this guy on my team!", he doesn't belong.

Larry Walker had maybe one HoF season if you put his best 162 games together. From what I recall, he was streaky.

// and I feel bad not supporting Egger for the Hall
// b-b-b-but DH!
// yeah, he wasn't even Junior Griffey, let alone Frank Thomas


He's probably not a Hall of Famer, and playing in Colorado definitely boosted his numbers, but Walker had a MUCH better career than he's being given credit for here. Dude wasn't streaky so much as constantly injured.

Career line: 313/400/565. That's really, really good. While it's not enough, it's not like 383 home runs is a small number or anything.
 
2013-01-09 04:00:20 PM
And who are the 8 assholes that voted for Clemens and not Bonds? You want to keep them both out for steroids? Fine. You want to put them both in despite steroids? That's fine too. But there is no legitimate reason for voting for one and not the other.
 
2013-01-09 04:06:01 PM

SkylineRecords: Grand_Moff_Joseph: ManateeGag: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Petite

what about A-Roid?

To be honest, I can't remember if he came clean or not.  If he did, then good on him for manning up too.

/I probably spelled Pettit's name wrong too
//oops

He didn't. He Melkied, which is a new verb that means "coming up with a god-awful excuse in attempt to shed any personal blame".


He took plenty of blame and took personal responsibility, he just said that nobody knew they were actually steroids. He basically said, "I didn't know they were steroids, but I knew they were wrong and shouldn't have taken them." So he at least owned up halfway, if not more. He did flake when asked if they actually improved his performance, but ARod has always been quite flaky.
 
2013-01-09 04:11:08 PM

Rex_Banner: And who are the 8 assholes that voted for Clemens and not Bonds? You want to keep them both out for steroids? Fine. You want to put them both in despite steroids? That's fine too. But there is no legitimate reason for voting for one and not the other.


Bonds wasn't nice to the non-athlete guys who write fancy articles! The big meanie!
 
2013-01-09 04:13:08 PM

funk_soul_bubby: Rex_Banner: And who are the 8 assholes that voted for Clemens and not Bonds? You want to keep them both out for steroids? Fine. You want to put them both in despite steroids? That's fine too. But there is no legitimate reason for voting for one and not the other.

Bonds wasn't nice to the non-athlete guys who write fancy articles! The big meanie!


Some people might think pitchers benefit less from juicing, because OMG HOME RUNS or something.

There's also a pretty significant and obvious difference between the two that certainly impacts how they are perceived, but if you bring it up people might yell at you.
 
2013-01-09 04:14:25 PM

Dafatone: funk_soul_bubby: Rex_Banner: And who are the 8 assholes that voted for Clemens and not Bonds? You want to keep them both out for steroids? Fine. You want to put them both in despite steroids? That's fine too. But there is no legitimate reason for voting for one and not the other.

Bonds wasn't nice to the non-athlete guys who write fancy articles! The big meanie!

Some people might think pitchers benefit less from juicing, because OMG HOME RUNS or something.

There's also a pretty significant and obvious difference between the two that certainly impacts how they are perceived, but if you bring it up people might yell at you.


I'm the last person to ever go into that territory, but anybody that can't see that it's played a part has to be blind.
 
2013-01-09 04:28:44 PM
I'm all for excluding the steroid era guys, but snubbing Trammell and Morris again is bordering on retarded.
 
2013-01-09 04:33:26 PM

Dafatone: He's probably not a Hall of Famer, and playing in Colorado definitely boosted his numbers, but Walker had a MUCH better career than he's being given credit for here. Dude wasn't streaky so much as constantly injured.

Career line: 313/400/565. That's really, really good. While it's not enough, it's not like 383 home runs is a small number or anything.


Yup. Ditto Sammy Sosa - without the roided-up years (made all the more humorous by his "Que?" act during the Congressional hearings), he's an above-average power guy who can't field.
 
2013-01-09 04:33:59 PM

hulk hogan meat shoes: I'm all for excluding the steroid era guys, but snubbing Trammell and Morris again is bordering on retarded.


Snubbing Trammel is bad. Leaving Morris out is the most redeeming thing about this vote
 
2013-01-09 04:35:20 PM

Rex_Banner: hulk hogan meat shoes: I'm all for excluding the steroid era guys, but snubbing Trammell and Morris again is bordering on retarded.

Snubbing Trammel is bad. Leaving Morris out is the most redeeming thing about this vote


As I said in the first thread (before the announcement), I wasn't sure which would be worse: no one gets in, or just Jack gets in.

Now that I've experienced the first, I have no doubt the latter would be worse.
 
2013-01-09 04:56:00 PM

Rex_Banner: And who are the 8 assholes that voted for Clemens and not Bonds? You want to keep them both out for steroids? Fine. You want to put them both in despite steroids? That's fine too. But there is no legitimate reason for voting for one and not the other.


I can make a case for voting for Bonds and not Clemens. Bonds was consistently great before the roids...Clemens, not so much.

/would not vote for either
 
2013-01-09 05:37:21 PM
Should've put Pete Rose in and told the roiders they can apply in 35 years.
 
2013-01-09 05:52:15 PM
When a grown man gets excited about "pitchers and catchers", I assume it's some kind of gay code*

As ftfa, ab;dr**

*NTTIAWWT
**about baseball; didn't read
 
2013-01-09 07:15:27 PM
"It was ok for my baseball heroes to do greenies but it's not ok for these guys to do steroids"

Whatever, idiots. Can't wait for the HOF to go out of business.
 
2013-01-09 08:42:45 PM
I agree with Mr. Writer guy. Maybe not with all of his picks, but I do agree with his logic. I don't know how anyone could take the holier-than-thou attitude and say they're not going to vote for any steroid users, but still vote for someone. Because there is absolutely no way of knowing for certain that someone didn't break the rules at some point along the way.
 
2013-01-10 02:09:35 AM
i.imgur.com
 
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