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(Independent)   Oprah offers Lance Armstrong a nut in exchange for admission   (independent.co.uk) divider line 39
    More: Followup, Oprah Winfrey, United States Anti-Doping Agency, Tour de France titles, interviews  
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1178 clicks; posted to Sports » on 09 Jan 2013 at 10:19 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-09 10:27:57 AM  
Not mine, but appropriate.
i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-09 10:28:44 AM  
That'll be a ball.
 
2013-01-09 10:29:10 AM  
After Lance, Oprah plans to have on Pete Rose and OJ Simpson to also admit things everyone knows they did.
 
2013-01-09 10:31:23 AM  
It is sure to be one testy interview.
 
2013-01-09 10:38:17 AM  
As much as he has been tested how did he avoid coming up hot on a test?

He did his wife wrong.
 
2013-01-09 10:40:34 AM  

hasty ambush: As much as he has been tested how did he avoid coming up hot on a test?


Ask Marion Jones.
 
2013-01-09 10:42:05 AM  
At the end of the show, I just hope they have a vial of HGH under each chair of the audience.
 
2013-01-09 10:42:07 AM  
Just what I want to watch: a tear-filled confession to Oprah.
 
2013-01-09 10:45:03 AM  
I still think this. Regardless of anything else, quite a few pro cyclists could have won the Tour 7 times if they did what Lance did.

1. The Tour De France is the ONLY race he ran all year, and he trained for every curve, every mile of it and knew the thing by heart by the time the race came around.

2. Virtually every other pro cyclist runs the Tour of Italy like 2 weeks before the French race. In addition to quite a few other races around the same time. Not Lance.

3. Lance paid extremely well to have his team not just support him, but make sure he won. The entire american team's job was to make sure Lance won that race.

4. Not one single positive test ever.

The fourth could be moot, but the first three points are valid. There's any number of other world class pro racers who could have had a 7-peat if they did that, but they didn't. They ran all the Euro races, The team structure was different, and they didn't know the french race as well as Lance. That's also why the majority of racers around the world hated him.

It'd be like if Tiger Woods only ever played one golf course all year round. Knew every nook and cranny. Knew where every windy spot was, knew the grading on all of the greens, and somehow shocked people when the US Open came to that course and he took first place.
 
2013-01-09 10:48:01 AM  

hasty ambush: As much as he has been tested how did he avoid coming up hot on a test?


Well, if you really want to know...

-committing fraud and back dating physician letters after getting caught
-microdosing
-hiding from drug testers
-getting advance warning of drug tests
-transfusing clean blood

He did other stuff but those are the main avoidance measures.
 
2013-01-09 10:56:51 AM  

Sail The Wide Accountancy: I still think this. Regardless of anything else, quite a few pro cyclists could have won the Tour 7 times if they did what Lance did.

1. The Tour De France is the ONLY race he ran all year, and he trained for every curve, every mile of it and knew the thing by heart by the time the race came around.

2. Virtually every other pro cyclist runs the Tour of Italy like 2 weeks before the French race. In addition to quite a few other races around the same time. Not Lance.

3. Lance paid extremely well to have his team not just support him, but make sure he won. The entire american team's job was to make sure Lance won that race.

4. Not one single positive test ever.

The fourth could be moot, but the first three points are valid. There's any number of other world class pro racers who could have had a 7-peat if they did that, but they didn't. They ran all the Euro races, The team structure was different, and they didn't know the french race as well as Lance. That's also why the majority of racers around the world hated him.

It'd be like if Tiger Woods only ever played one golf course all year round. Knew every nook and cranny. Knew where every windy spot was, knew the grading on all of the greens, and somehow shocked people when the US Open came to that course and he took first place.


Why doesn't another pro do that now? The name recognition alone from winning it more than 5 times in a row would make them the highest paid cyclist in the sport. They'd make more money winning the Tour De France every year than having an average performance in two races.
 
2013-01-09 11:04:12 AM  

hasty ambush: As much as he has been tested how did he avoid coming up hot on a test?

He did his wife wrong.


He was tested positive several times.

It's common knowledge for anyone who actually follows cycling, instead of listening to Armstrong lyingly saying that he was never tested positive. He was. 4 of his B-samples from one of his tour wins was for instance positive for EPO.

Just Google the damn thing and stop listening to liars, or uninformed people.
 
2013-01-09 11:07:32 AM  

Sail The Wide Accountancy:

4. Not one single positive test ever.


Your whole list is bunk, but lets single this one out:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2005-08-24-armstrong-sa m ples-details_x.htm

There, he tested positive.
 
2013-01-09 11:12:32 AM  
And not a nut was given.
 
2013-01-09 11:15:28 AM  
Protip, if the website you're trying to link to puts spaces in the link to prevent hotlinking, copy the link into a text editor, remove the spaces, paste the new link.

spawn73's Link
As for the article, I couldn't care less. An American cheated in a niche sport, and that pissed off the French.
 
2013-01-09 11:33:07 AM  

Carth: Why doesn't another pro do that now?


Most cyclists actually like, you know, cycling, and greatly enjoy the myriad competitions and courses all over the planet.
 
2013-01-09 12:10:29 PM  

Torgos_Pizza: It is sure to be one testy interview.


This is my favorite of the "one testicle" jokes. Kudos!
 
2013-01-09 12:22:08 PM  

spawn73: Sail The Wide Accountancy:

4. Not one single positive test ever.

Your whole list is bunk, but lets single this one out:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2005-08-24-armstrong-sa m ples-details_x.htm

There, he tested positive.


Maybe. Though the lab didn't confirm it, and the tests were on urine B samples from possibly five years previous to the test, and all of his A samples from the time were negative, so your assertion is shaky at best. That being said. I mentioned in my post that #4 was moot.

Now. why are all of my other points bunk exactly? was Lance running a bunch of other races or not?(Other than little publicity appearances when) Was he paying that team to make him win or not?

As for why nobody else could do it? They could! they just don't. Because it's a bullshiat way to be a cyclist, and that trick would ONLY work in America if an American won the race. Because the only race that anyone pays any attention to is the Tour de France here. And we don't give a crap if some guy from Guyana wins it. The rest of the world DOES care about cycle racing and Lance wasn't a big inspirational story everywhere else.
 
2013-01-09 12:29:54 PM  
The only people who ride bikes are children and those who've had more than enough DUI's to get their license revoked.
 
2013-01-09 12:35:50 PM  

WhiskeySticks: The only people who ride bikes are children and those who've had more than enough DUI's to get their license revoked.


Tell that to Old Man Spandex Balls in my neighborhood.
 
2013-01-09 12:42:20 PM  
Where are all the true believers from every related post the last two years?
 
2013-01-09 12:47:02 PM  
I have no interest in seeing a deceitful charlatan who has bamboozled a gullible fanbase for fun and profit.

Don't care much for Armstrong either.
 
2013-01-09 12:57:08 PM  

Torgos_Pizza: It is sure to be one testy interview.


I giggled like Anderson Cooper.
 
2013-01-09 12:57:53 PM  

js34603: After Lance, Oprah plans to have on Pete Rose and OJ Simpson to also admit things everyone knows they did.


Hey now, Pete has admitted gambling on the games.
 
2013-01-09 01:07:32 PM  

Sail The Wide Accountancy: spawn73: Sail The Wide Accountancy:

4. Not one single positive test ever.

Your whole list is bunk, but lets single this one out:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2005-08-24-armstrong-sa m ples-details_x.htm

There, he tested positive.

Maybe. Though the lab didn't confirm it, and the tests were on urine B samples from possibly five years previous to the test, and all of his A samples from the time were negative, so your assertion is shaky at best. That being said. I mentioned in my post that #4 was moot.

Now. why are all of my other points bunk exactly? was Lance running a bunch of other races or not?(Other than little publicity appearances when) Was he paying that team to make him win or not?

As for why nobody else could do it? They could! they just don't. Because it's a bullshiat way to be a cyclist, and that trick would ONLY work in America if an American won the race. Because the only race that anyone pays any attention to is the Tour de France here. And we don't give a crap if some guy from Guyana wins it. The rest of the world DOES care about cycle racing and Lance wasn't a big inspirational story everywhere else.


Your list described what most of Lance Armstrongs competitors did as well. Their teams existed with the purpose of supporting their star rider, and their star riders concentrated on the tour mostly.

Though lances team had to ride other races, or they wouldn't gather enough pro tour pouints to be automaticly qualified. Without an qualification they'd have to rely on an invitation, and IMHO I am not sure Lance Armstrong was that super welcome.

A lot of them was doped too.

So IMHO Lance was just a spectacular rider, who rode during a time where EPO use was prominent. Try looking at who came second in these races, yeah, they're all convicted dopers.

He makes the huge scandal because Americans thinks it's such a big deal, in that I agree. It's quite interesting to see how this makes the news in USA now, when everyone who has given a shiat about cycling has known since 2005.

---

No it's not on shaky ground. His A samples would have been positive as well had the new technique been used to test them for EPO. However this test was not available then, which is why he wasn't originally caught.

There's nothing sketchy or suspect about those B samples being positive. This was the lab that tests all riders now, so they have to know their stuff. If they weren't able to make these tests, then they wouldn't be able to make any.

Of course formalia is that both your A and B sample has to be positive for you to recieve a sanction, and since the A sample was discarded, well. But that's formalia, I am talking about whether or not he was tested positive for EPO.
 
2013-01-09 01:07:53 PM  

doubled99: Where are all the true believers from every related post the last two years?


Most threads the consensus was yes he probably cheated but so was everyone else back then so it doesn't diminish the accomplishment.
 
2013-01-09 01:08:40 PM  

Sail The Wide Accountancy: I still think this. Regardless of anything else, quite a few pro cyclists could have won the Tour 7 times if they did what Lance did.


They all did what Lance did. Just not as well.
 
2013-01-09 01:32:51 PM  

Carth: Most threads the consensus was yes he probably cheated but so was everyone else back then so it doesn't diminish the accomplishment.


Disagree that was the consensus of most threads. But besides that, quite a few of the aforementioned 'everyone else' who was a high level rider has been caught and sanctioned. I can name at least a dozen. Why should the guy who did it the most get off? Perhaps the other gentlemen should have made a 'donation' to the drug testing lab like armstrong did.
 
2013-01-09 01:39:33 PM  
Now with betting goodness (or drinking game, whichever):
Link
 
2013-01-09 01:41:48 PM  

Beeblebrox: Sail The Wide Accountancy: I still think this. Regardless of anything else, quite a few pro cyclists could have won the Tour 7 times if they did what Lance did.

They all did what Lance did. Just not as well.


exactly. But they all could have done it. I'm not saying the guy didn't dope. I'm saying considering how he got the job done, while it's impressive, it doesn't impress me that much.

I'll equate this to the pyramids. Do the pyramids impress you? They don't really impress me, because I believe that with 100,000 men and 20 years to do something, I too could make a large pile of rocks in the desert. What impresses me is that the Pharaoh actually convinced 100,000 people to build the thing, and not rebel.

Lance duped a lot more people for a much less impressive prize.

If all your support is doping and they're helping you is it cheating? Maybe.
If the guy who came in second was doping yet you beat him anyway, is that proof of anything? No.
Did he dope? Probably but there will never be absolute proof of it.
 
2013-01-09 01:51:37 PM  

DevilsHorns J: HGH


damn you!
 
2013-01-09 02:26:23 PM  

Big Beef Burrito: WhiskeySticks: The only people who ride bikes are children and those who've had more than enough DUI's to get their license revoked.

Tell that to Old Man Spandex Balls in my neighborhood.


old man spandex balls is going to be the name of my first dub-bluegrass/metal album...
 
2013-01-09 02:57:39 PM  
It's even funnier because "riding bikes" and "going on a tour" are gym slang for steroids
 
2013-01-09 03:25:32 PM  

Sail The Wide Accountancy: Beeblebrox: Sail The Wide Accountancy: I still think this. Regardless of anything else, quite a few pro cyclists could have won the Tour 7 times if they did what Lance did.

They all did what Lance did. Just not as well.

exactly. But they all could have done it. I'm not saying the guy didn't dope. I'm saying considering how he got the job done, while it's impressive, it doesn't impress me that much.

I'll equate this to the pyramids. Do the pyramids impress you? They don't really impress me, because I believe that with 100,000 men and 20 years to do something, I too could make a large pile of rocks in the desert. What impresses me is that the Pharaoh actually convinced 100,000 people to build the thing, and not rebel.

Lance duped a lot more people for a much less impressive prize.

If all your support is doping and they're helping you is it cheating? Maybe.
If the guy who came in second was doping yet you beat him anyway, is that proof of anything? No.
Did he dope? Probably but there will never be absolute proof of it.


But what I'm saying is that they all doped. They aren't going to award as winner anyone in those seven races that Lance originally won because so many of the next in line have already been disqualified for doping.
 
2013-01-09 11:58:38 PM  
Beeblebrox
But what I'm saying is that they all doped.

How in the f*ck do you know? Evidence? Citation?
You cannot prove that statement, it is a patently f*cking stupid thing to say. It is an insult to the riders who didn't cheat. It is an insult to athletes who worked their asses off to do waht they love to do.

I worked as a mechanic for a guy who was Canadian Downhill MTB Champion and later raced the World Cup circuit in the mid 90's as a privateer. Doping? You bet. Everyone? Certainly f*cking not!
You know how I know he didn't dope? Pretty simple when you have to hold fundraisers to get to your next race, you can't f*cking afford a doping program.

This is fark and nobody gives a sh*t what you say, but calling everyone a cheater without giving them the chance to defend themselves and providing ZERO evidence doesn't make you any less of an idiot.

/get your sh*t together Zaphod!


Sail The Wide Accountancy


3. Lance paid extremely well to have his team not just support him, but make sure he won. The entire american team's job was to make sure Lance won that race.

That is a f*cking domestiques job! Cycling in grand tours is a TEAM sport! You are stating the most basic obvious thing.

The problem I and most others have is HE FORCED HIS TEAMMATES TO TAKE DOPE OR HE WOULD RUIN THEM. Contrast those two statements. Think about that for a second. Refer as well to the Filippo Simeoni incident.

Actually why doesn't everyone at least read the USADA report and stop rehashing the stupid sh*t that is in every thread.
 
2013-01-10 07:12:07 AM  

New Age Redneck: How in the f*ck do you know? Evidence? Citation?
You cannot prove that statement, it is a patently f*cking stupid thing to say. It is an insult to the riders who didn't cheat. It is an insult to athletes who worked their asses off to do waht they love to do.

I worked as a mechanic for a guy who was Canadian Downhill MTB Champion and later raced the World Cup circuit in the mid 90's as a privateer. Doping? You bet. Everyone? Certainly f*cking not!
You know how I know he didn't dope? Pretty simple when you have to hold fundraisers to get to your next race, you can't f*cking afford a doping program.

This is fark and nobody gives a sh*t what you say, but calling everyone a cheater without giving them the chance to defend themselves and providing ZERO evidence doesn't make you any less of an idiot.

/get your sh*t together Zaphod!


They all doped. You know how we know? Because if one person was doing it and having super-human times, and everyone else was having super-human times, everyone else has to be doping. If you look at the time differences between the 80s through Lance's era, it is pretty obvious something is going on.
 
2013-01-10 12:01:02 PM  
machoprogrammer

They all doped.

Bullsh*t. That is a baseless accusation, and then there is this little thing called evidence..... not just that some random tool like yourself going on his "all the times were faster ...derp"

If you are going to say something that f*cking dumb, list every rider, his hemocrit, his V02, max watts, ie. prove it

You can't.
 
2013-01-10 02:53:25 PM  

New Age Redneck: machoprogrammer

They all doped.

Bullsh*t. That is a baseless accusation, and then there is this little thing called evidence..... not just that some random tool like yourself going on his "all the times were faster ...derp"

If you are going to say something that f*cking dumb, list every rider, his hemocrit, his V02, max watts, ie. prove it

You can't.


Yes, they all doped. Do you have any idea how big of an advantage doping is? Let's assume that all TDF racers all have the genetics required to be a TDF rider. Let's pretend there are 3 of them, racers A, B, C. There are also 3 other racers not quite as good as A-C, but also real good. These are F, G and H.

A, B and C all have really good genetics, so they all finish the race cleanly within an hour of each other, at pace D. Racers F, G and H finish it at D + 1/2 hour.

Now, let's say there is a race between three people for the prize. The pool of applicants are the best 3 racers in the world (A-C). Racer A decides to dope. His time is now D - 3 hours. Racer B notices this, and realizes he has to dope as well. His time is now D - 2.5 hours. Racer C is now farked unless he dopes as well, and realizes it. The other racers that are top of the world, racers D-G notice this and realize they have to dope as well, their times are now D - 2 hours.

If the people were truly clean, their times would be so much worse that another doper would take their place on the world stage. It is just a ridiculous advantage, and yes, if your neighbor was racing for money and placing with the winners, he was doping. You act like doping agents are expensive or difficult to get. They aren't.
 
2013-01-10 11:38:39 PM  
machoprogrammer

New Age Redneck: machoprogrammer

They all doped.

Bullsh*t. That is a baseless accusation, and then there is this little thing called evidence..... not just that some random tool like yourself going on his "all the times were faster ...derp"

If you are going to say something that f*cking dumb, list every rider, his hemocrit, his V02, max watts, ie. prove it

You can't.

Yes, they all doped. Do you have any idea how big of an advantage doping is? Let's assume that all TDF racers all have the genetics required to be a TDF rider. Let's pretend there are 3 of them, racers A, B, C. There are also 3 other racers not quite as good as A-C, but also real good. These are F, G and H.

A, B and C all have really good genetics, so they all finish the race cleanly within an hour of each other, at pace D. Racers F, G and H finish it at D + 1/2 hour.

Now, let's say there is a race between three people for the prize. The pool of applicants are the best 3 racers in the world (A-C). Racer A decides to dope. His time is now D - 3 hours. Racer B notices this, and realizes he has to dope as well. His time is now D - 2.5 hours. Racer C is now farked unless he dopes as well, and realizes it. The other racers that are top of the world, racers D-G notice this and realize they have to dope as well, their times are now D - 2 hours.

If the people were truly clean, their times would be so much worse that another doper would take their place on the world stage. It is just a ridiculous advantage, and yes, if your neighbor was racing for money and placing with the winners, he was dopingWTF?. You act like doping agents are expensive or difficult to get. They aren't.


You have no idea how a grand tour works at all do you? It is a team sport. The advantage riders had with the sophisticated doping programs was they were always fresh and recovered better and were able to maintain artificially what would normally be depleted by the tremendous exertion. The difference in average speed at the height of doping was barely a single mph over the average now
39.6 kph/2000, 41.5 kph /2005, 39.6kph /2010. The advantage is entirely removing the strategy of seeing a team wasted from an effort attacked by another team. Read the USADA report that outlines how the USPS team, Dr. Ferrari et.al. had completely rendered the testing useless. They spent hundreds of thousands of dollars using doctors, masking agents, drugs, all sorts of physical monitoring, blood hemocrit monitoring, testing, etc...they spent more on this than other teams probably had for a budget.
You don't have a clue what you are talking about. There is no f*cking way a pro cyclist making $100,000 a year can afford to employ a doctor which is the only way you can dope without getting caught. As well, why would a domestique with no chance at the glory of a yellow jersey dope? He doesn't really need to to do his job. Armstrong forced his teammates to dope how do you know every other team did the same?
Your analogy is sh*t. It ignores the roles of different riders, sprinters, climbers, time trialers, etc. A guy can be a strong TT'er and can't climb with the best (Cancellara) or a powerful climber (Pantani) who isn't a strong time trial guy.

Give it up guy, admit saying everyone doped and that makes it an even playing field is not only stupid but obviously untrue. If you gave everyone access to the methods of Dr. Ferrari; OK then. That was never the case.
 
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