Dog Welder: Considering I usually don't have all of my tax documents in my possession until towards the end of January, isn't this kind of normal? Or is this just another manufactured outrage crazy Teahadists are going to blame on 0bama?

I agree. I always wait until at least mid-February to make sure I got all my forms. I can't speak for every tax-filer, but I never knew anyone who filed before Feb.

I'm married, no kids, no house, and combined income that just reaches six figures so no, I'm not terribly concerned with filing for any "refund."  We're expecting a bill in the $3k-$5k range, just like last year.

Filing 0/0 isn't enough for DINKs.  Ya gotta have them withhold several hundred dollars per month as well.  I miss the days of filing Single and getting a refund...

/got nothing to deduct

The filing season had been slated to start Jan. 22 but was delayed by the last-minute tax package passed by Congress on New Year's Day.

Wait just a second - we're filing on 2012 taxes not 2013. Why are we waiting on them to reprogram their systems? The new laws should only effect next year's filing unless they made a retroactive law. I thought that was unconstitutional.

Fark_Guy_Rob: Kuroshin: I'm married, no kids, no house, and combined income that just reaches six figures so no, I'm not terribly concerned with filing for any "refund."  We're expecting a bill in the $3k-$5k range, just like last year.

Filing 0/0 isn't enough for DINKs.  Ya gotta have them withhold several hundred dollars per month as well.  I miss the days of filing Single and getting a refund...

/got nothing to deduct

Financially responsible people like you should be punished with higher taxes so irresponsible people like me can get more stuff!

Sadly, this is how our system works.

Punished?  Dude, I've got three motorcycles, two sports cars, never go hungry (unless I am watching my calories), ass-loads of electronic gadgets, an awesome dog and plenty of money for taking week-long trips to Vegas.  I grew up poor, lived on the street for several years, and have been able to weather the destruction of the world economy in relative luxury.  I've got things pretty damn good.  Paying a few bills in taxes isn't going to hurt me.  My gripe is that there is literally nothing you can file (other than forcing set-dollar withholding) that can prevent you from owing cash at the end of the year.  It's just a hassle.  Oh, and that we're specifically paying more in taxes because we're married.  Dat marriage penalty...

FunkyBlue: Then I don't know what you're filing on your W4s for exemptions. Our combined last year was $65k with one kid and I was using single withholding for deductions. We pulled about $7,500 back. This year, I changed to M2 and my wife had more income that may kick us over $70k, but we should still should see about $3K back if my math is right.

0 Federal, 0 State.  Literally the maximum you can have withdrawn from your paycheck, without specifying an additional set dollar amount.

DINKs are penalized in the tax code.  We don't have a house and we'll never have a kid, so we pay through the nose.  It's all good though, since making enough money that you have to pay more in taxes is a good thing.  When we made less, we had less.  Now that we make more, we have more, and it's not unreasonable to expect to pay more.  It's still a net gain.

stuartp9: Thunderpipes: Past 80k or so, things turn really, really ugly. The things you cannot claim as exemptions climb. Just making 20k more at some point makes you pay dramatically more taxes.

I don't understand how your system works in the U.S. Here in Australia we have tax time in July onwards, and rare that anyone has to pay tax unless they have extra income that hasn't been taxed like bank interest or investments. The tax comes out of your salary during the year so at tax time you are just indicating if you have any deductions or rebates etc.

Why do you suddenly have to pay when you go over 80k?

Because he's trolling.  The primary problem with taxes in the US is that withholdings from your paycheck don't really reflect what you make.  Too much gets withheld at lower incomes, while too little gets held as you go up.  My wife and I both claim zero exemptions, yet still don't have enough drawn against our incomes over the course of the year.

It gets especially tricky with dual-income households, because your incomes don't get taxed at the joint rate.  Being married with no kids and no house means there is pretty much nothing you can use as a deduction to lower your tax liability.  Back when I was self employed I was able to essentially negate my entire income with deductions, but that requires quite a bit of creative accounting and lots of receipts.

Our tax system is a bit of a clusterfark, but don't let Thunderpoop fool you - when you make more money, you take home more money.  Even though you end up with a (climbing) tax bill at the end of the year, you've still got more money in your pocket than the guy making less.  At the end of the day, the more money you make, the more money you have, even after taxes.

stuartp9: I don't understand how your system works in the U.S. Here in Australia we have tax time in July onwards, and rare that anyone has to pay tax unless they have extra income that hasn't been taxed like bank interest or investments. The tax comes out of your salary during the year so at tax time you are just indicating if you have any deductions or rebates etc.

Why do you suddenly have to pay when you go over 80k?


There are some things that we allow people to deduct from their incomes when calculating the amount of taxes they have to pay. A number of these deductions "phase out" as gross incomes rise. In 2011, for example, the cut-off point for the student loan interest deduction was $60,000, and phased out completely at $75,000. Since you can only deduct a maximum of $2,500 in student loan interest, if your income was $60,000 (which is taxed at 25%), the maximum savings on taxes is $625. There's a few other deductions that work like this.

stuartp9: Kuroshin: Because he's trolling.  The primary problem with taxes in the US is that withholdings from your paycheck don't really reflect what you make.  Too much gets withheld at lower incomes, while too little gets held as you go up.  My wife and I both claim zero exemptions, yet still don't have enough drawn against our incomes over the course of the year.

It gets especially tricky with dual-income households, because your incomes don't get taxed at the joint rate.  Being married with no kids and no house means there is pretty much nothing you can use as a deduction to lower your tax liability.  Back when I was self employed I was able to essentially negate my entire income with deductions, but that requires quite a bit of creative accounting and lots of receipts.

Our tax system is a bit of a clusterfark, but don't let Thunderpoop fool you - when you make more money, you take home more money.  Even though you end up with a (climbing) tax bill at the end of the year, you've still got more money in your pocket than the guy making less.  At the end of the day, the more money you make, the more money you have, even after taxes.

Oh I figured he was trolling.. but I was trying to determine why you would have to pay anything at all at the end of the year, and why your tax bill is higher than the tax taken out during the year if you have no deductions.

Yeah, it's because of weird things like projected income versus actual income.  Tax rates change as you go up the ladder.  Every dollar below $25k is taxed at one rate, then every dollar between $25k and $35k at another rate, then it changes again at something like $45k...  Then when you combine incomes, they literally just add them together and apply the same rate structure.

A flat (regressive) tax would eliminate this, but would also accelerate the northward-float of money, causing even more economic headaches over the long-haul.  Plus, our government, even though they have every single bit of information about our marital status and incomes, can't figure this crap out on their own.  We really do save our best and brightest for the bureaucracies... O_o

Misch: stuartp9: I don't understand how your system works in the U.S. Here in Australia we have tax time in July onwards, and rare that anyone has to pay tax unless they have extra income that hasn't been taxed like bank interest or investments. The tax comes out of your salary during the year so at tax time you are just indicating if you have any deductions or rebates etc.

Why do you suddenly have to pay when you go over 80k?


There are some things that we allow people to deduct from their incomes when calculating the amount of taxes they have to pay. A number of these deductions "phase out" as gross incomes rise. In 2011, for example, the cut-off point for the student loan interest deduction was $60,000, and phased out completely at $75,000. Since you can only deduct a maximum of $2,500 in student loan interest, if your income was $60,000 (which is taxed at 25%), the maximum savings on taxes is $625. There's a few other deductions that work like this.

Of course, none of those things actually increase your tax bill.  Those are deductions you take after the fact.  Semantics, yes, but this is taxes we're talking about. ;)

/never personally had any sort of additional deductions to take
//except with the business

stuartp9: Kuroshin: Yeah, it's because of weird things like projected income versus actual income.  Tax rates change as you go up the ladder.  Every dollar below $25k is taxed at one rate, then every dollar between $25k and $35k at another rate, then it changes again at something like $45k...  Then when you combine incomes, they literally just add them together and apply the same rate structure.

A flat (regressive) tax would eliminate this, but would also accelerate the northward-float of money, causing even more economic headaches over the long-haul.  Plus, our government, even though they have every single bit of information ab ...

Oh ok, I can understand what you mean - when you have more than one income (e.g. multiple part-time jobs) each gets taxed at lower rates. Same as here. But if you only have 1 income, work as an employee with a salary and have no deductions then would your tax bill at the end of the year be $0?

Depends on your income.  Before we got married, my wife made $50k/yr and always had a tax bill - no exemptions, no deductions, please pay kthxbye.  I was making just over $30k and pretty much broke even.

They don't scale their withholdings correctly.  Dunno why.  PITA