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(LA Times)   NOAA: 2012 was the hottest year on record in the lower 48 United States. But global warming is totally not happening 'cuz there's snow in your backyard right now   (latimes.com) divider line 297
    More: Interesting, global warming, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, average surface temperature, United States, State of the Climate, Public Works Committee, National Climatic Data Center, Upper Midwest  
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2646 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jan 2013 at 4:19 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-09 07:11:45 AM  

Mose:

Different strokes. I have nothing against the land of Florida, but I'm not a tropical type of person. I like winter, skiing, snow and mountains. All things that seem to be consipicuously absent in Florida. I do sail though, and imagine doing that everyday could keep me pretty happy along with lots of scantily clad femaile beach goers.

What was this thread about again? Oh yeah, going in circles about global warming. Florida may actually be more interesting conversation at this point.


Even though we don't agree on climate, I think I like you, sir.

I am definitely a tropical type person, but I understand the appeal in any outdoor activity as long as you are dressed appropriately. That being said, driving in snow is pretty intimidating to me at this point, seeing that I've never driven in it. But I can drive circles around tourists during monsoons!
 
2013-01-09 07:13:23 AM  

Psycat: OK, so this is off-topic a bit, but has anybody else heard this?

I read somewhere that back in the 1920s when they made the first chlorofluorocarbon refrigerants, they were seriously considering using bromine as well. Turns out that, years later, they found out that bromine-carbon compounds are far, far, far more dangerous to the ozone layer than chlorofluorocarbons by a wide margin. If we had gone with bromine in the 20s, we wouldn't have much of an ozone layer left by the time we discovered what was happening. Without an ozone layer, the ultra-violet radiation out there would be a hell of a lot higher--anything from an epidemic of skin cancer to the destruction of basically all life on Earth. I can't find anything on Wikipedia about this ('natch), and was wondering if there's anything else out there on this...


A bit off topic? Is that like a little pregnant?
 
2013-01-09 07:20:40 AM  
Good, f*ck winter
 
2013-01-09 07:20:40 AM  

born_yesterday: Maybe the Climate Change people should call the ozone layer people and find out what they did to get changes enacted that prevented us all from having skin cancer.


It became a political issue, which was then resolved intelligently.
 
2013-01-09 07:21:33 AM  
According to Al Bore, global warming causes snow, rain, hurricane and drought!! Can't lose!!!
 
2013-01-09 07:22:29 AM  

Circusdog320: Psycat: OK, so this is off-topic a bit, but has anybody else heard this?

I read somewhere that back in the 1920s when they made the first chlorofluorocarbon refrigerants, they were seriously considering using bromine as well. Turns out that, years later, they found out that bromine-carbon compounds are far, far, far more dangerous to the ozone layer than chlorofluorocarbons by a wide margin. If we had gone with bromine in the 20s, we wouldn't have much of an ozone layer left by the time we discovered what was happening. Without an ozone layer, the ultra-violet radiation out there would be a hell of a lot higher--anything from an epidemic of skin cancer to the destruction of basically all life on Earth. I can't find anything on Wikipedia about this ('natch), and was wondering if there's anything else out there on this...

A bit off topic? Is that like a little pregnant?


It's not as far off as you'd think CFC and the subsequent HCFC's and HFC's are greenhouse gasses.
 
2013-01-09 07:23:03 AM  

Psycat: log_jammin: Psycat: to Einstein's relativity,

that's the one that gets me the most. They are so crazy that they think physics theories can be liberal.

This is how their reasoning works. One of the bigger bugs up their butts is "moral relativity"; that is, the idea that morality might depend on the particular situation rather than having some sort of absolute, Bible-based moral system. Apparently, that's the ultimate moral failure of liberals. Never mind that conservatives themselves practice moral relativity--for example, the Biblical commandment against murder doesn't apply in military combat, execution of criminals, etc. And, in the very cramped minds of the idiots who write for the Conservapedia, relativity in the physics sense somehow translates into relativity in the moral sense. Teach E=MC^2 and suddenly cats are marrying dogs and kids are mainlining reefer while sodomizing each other. Yes, this is how these mental eunuchs really think...


Why would murder apply to military combat? Surely, you wouldn't be calling our soldiers murderers.

/Don't call me surely
 
2013-01-09 07:25:19 AM  

born_yesterday: Once this became a political issue, it was never going to be resolved intelligently.


It's more true that the fact that we've built our entire global economy on fossil fuel combustion is what made it political, 'cause, you know, people love their warm and cool dwellings and to eat regularly and all the other benefits of relatively cheap energy, including driving their freedom machines where ever they want, whenever they want. Any politician who steps in front of that way of life will be smashed like a bug on a windshield. Also, as long as the richest corporations on the planet control the political discourse, nothing will change -- they own you and the government.

/It's 150 years of data, wow.
//Aren't we a superlative bunch?!
///So intelligent, so insightful!
 
2013-01-09 07:27:43 AM  

Mean Daddy: According to Al Bore, global warming causes snow, rain, hurricane and drought!! Can't lose!!!


They do seem to have an answer for everything, just like religious fundies, hence my skepticism
 
2013-01-09 07:32:54 AM  
On the plus side, Global Warming threads are great for sprucing up the ignore list.
 
2013-01-09 07:38:28 AM  
Given that I work with climatologists, their data, and the impact of sea level rise on coastal economics for a very meager living, I'd like to say this:

It's happening. The seas have been getting warmer, have been rising because of water expansion and the melting of ice sheets (on land). The IPCC 2007 report modeled a conservative range of sea-level rise for the next century. Using satellite data to plot the actual data of sea level rise, the IPCC report has the trajectory correct but underestimated the actual amount. The majority of the human population lives in coastal areas, so let's stop pretending that just because it happened in the earth's history means that it is inconsequential that it is happening now. It will cost lives and will cost a LOT of money. Maybe mitigation isn't realistic, but we have to farking stop pretending it's NOT happening so we can at least prepare for the changes that are on track with the models to be accelerating over the next century.
 
2013-01-09 07:39:03 AM  

Psycat: I know beyond all doubt that the climate in Minnesota has changed in the last 30 years.


It's certainly gotten a lot dumber over the last 30 years...
www.grayflannelsuit.net
 
2013-01-09 07:39:33 AM  

GAT_00: DesertDemonWY: Sgygus: Here's the thing with the Global Warming... it not merely going to get warmer, the pace of getting warmer is accelerating.

Accelerating so fast that the GLOBE hasn't warmed at all in 16 years.


You done got charted
 
2013-01-09 07:43:53 AM  

log_jammin: DrPainMD: The best conditions for life are warmer and CO2-rich.

If you are a tropical plant.


FTFY
 
2013-01-09 07:45:00 AM  

Kuroshin: On the plus side, Global Warming threads are great for sprucing up the ignore list.


Yep FARK is much more fun as an echo chamber, you never learn anything new, but you're never wrong either.
 
2013-01-09 07:48:36 AM  
Dr. J. Marshall Shepherd's Talk about Climate, Carbon, and Controversy

It's long, but if you can watch an episode of Game of Thrones, you have time for some 'reality,' too.

/Winter is not coming
 
2013-01-09 07:52:06 AM  

arghyematey: I work outside (overnight, to boot) and I've only seen frost twice so far this winter. Have fun shoveling your snow :)


I'm at work right now, and it's 24F and snowing outside.  In Hawaii.  I don't work outside, but I can go outside and run around in it if I feel like it...
 
2013-01-09 07:59:44 AM  
members.iinet.net.au
 
2013-01-09 08:00:48 AM  
It seems obvious to me... We used to get a lot more snow and our winters were far colder here on the South Coast of Massachusetts when I was kid. I'm 41 now, so it wasn't all that long ago. The Taunton River used to freeze over every year, as did the Watuppa pond. People haven't been able to skate on either of those in the Winter for a while. There are pictures of wagons being driven across the river to Somerset (before the bridges were built) in the early 20th century. There's no way that could be done these days.

Of course, I know a few decades doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things, and I'm certainly no scientist, but it seems silly to deny things have gotten warmer in the last few decades. Essentially, we're just in between ice ages, from the little I have read about it.

*Shrug* What does it all mean? farked if I know. I'm just glad the wife and I have no intention of having any children and with a little luck we'll be long gone before things get critical.
 
2013-01-09 08:04:32 AM  

DesertDemonWY: GAT_00: DesertDemonWY: Sgygus: Here's the thing with the Global Warming... it not merely going to get warmer, the pace of getting warmer is accelerating.

Accelerating so fast that the GLOBE hasn't warmed at all in 16 years.

[i575.photobucket.com image 500x341]

and by "realists" you mean liars and data manipulators?

let's have a look at the actual data:

[www.woodfortrees.org image 640x480]

No
Warming
For
16
years
.


That's funny. When I look at the global mean using that same web site over the same period, here's what I get:

woodfortrees.org

0.2 degrees over 16 years
 
2013-01-09 08:04:35 AM  
Get out of my damn back yard!!
 
2013-01-09 08:06:57 AM  
Change is constant.
 
2013-01-09 08:08:34 AM  

Summercat: I was going to give Pocketninja a 4/10, for being so obvious, but then he kept getting bites, so I guess he's at least an 9/10.


Yeah, I'd say he's intentionally going after the low hanging fruit with this one.
 
2013-01-09 08:10:44 AM  

Dadoody: [icecap.us image 818x526]

http://www.voanews.com/content/article--global-warming-could-delay-ne x t-ice-age-137029543/169712.html


From that article:

"While a delayed ice age may sound like good news, Channell says, it isn't.

The high concentration of heat-trapping greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is beginning to destabilize ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica.

"Once you slough off the continental ice into the ocean, of course the consequence is sea level rise," said Channell.

"And it's not being, I think, over-dramatic to say that considering the proportion of the world's population that lives close to sea level, the implications of this sort of accelerated sea level rise are enormous."

Channel says those ice sheets are expected to continue to melt until the next phase of cooling begins. And when that will be is now in serious doubt."
 
2013-01-09 08:13:00 AM  
What snow subby? Its going to be 52 today in New York
 
2013-01-09 08:13:14 AM  

DesertDemonWY: GAT_00: DesertDemonWY: Sgygus: Here's the thing with the Global Warming... it not merely going to get warmer, the pace of getting warmer is accelerating.

Accelerating so fast that the GLOBE hasn't warmed at all in 16 years.

[i575.photobucket.com image 500x341]

and by "realists" you mean liars and data manipulators?

let's have a look at the actual data:

[www.woodfortrees.org image 640x480]

No
Warming
For
16
years
.


You are the one who's lying, or maybe you're just delusional.
 
2013-01-09 08:18:09 AM  
I love these "My graph is prettier than your graph" threads.
That and the derp as well.
Deniers = dead weight
 
2013-01-09 08:18:22 AM  
Global warming? I'd never notice.

/Wearing shorts right now
//Forecast for today - 82
///RLY
 
2013-01-09 08:20:12 AM  

GAT_00: DesertDemonWY: Sgygus: Here's the thing with the Global Warming... it not merely going to get warmer, the pace of getting warmer is accelerating.

Accelerating so fast that the GLOBE hasn't warmed at all in 16 years.


Why did you choose 73 to start? That was a local minimum cool period.
 
2013-01-09 08:22:56 AM  

Mean Daddy: According to Al Bore, global warming causes snow, rain, hurricane and drought!! Can't lose!!!


First, that's according to scientists, not to Al Gore.

Second, what generates those things? Let's take hurricanes -- they are caused by storms building in strength because they are energized by passing over warm water. If the planet warms (overall, not every place evenly) then the water will warm too (overall, not every place evenly). So more storms will turn into hurricanes because there is more warm water energy in the system to feed the hurricanes.

That doesn't mean that we can say with any certainty that "this particular hurricane was caused by global warming". But it does mean than we can say with certainty that as the planet warms we will have more energetic hurricane system. I'm personally not sure whether that means more hurricanes or stronger hurricanes or both, perhaps the folks at NOAA do.

Other extreme weather events have similar patterns of effect. And there are ways that global warming could make things much colder in some areas, for instance if sufficient fresh water melts off glaciers to stall the gulf stream that keeps warm water circulating into the north atlantic thus moderating air temperatures in north america and europe.
 
2013-01-09 08:25:06 AM  

Onkel Buck: Mean Daddy: According to Al Bore, global warming causes snow, rain, hurricane and drought!! Can't lose!!!

They do seem to have an answer for everything, just like religious fundies, hence my skepticism


You obviously haven't ever talked to an actual climate scientist. We don't know that yet is a common phrase in science.
 
2013-01-09 08:27:22 AM  

UberDave: Sgygus: Here's the thing with the Global Warming... it not merely going to get warmer, the pace of getting warmer is accelerating.

And Leon's getting laaaarrrrger!


C|N>K
 
2013-01-09 08:27:32 AM  

Sgygus: Here's the thing with the Global Warming... it not merely going to get warmer, the pace of getting warmer is accelerating.


I know of very few who deny warming is occurring, what I am seeing are people who are not sure what is causing it, there is not proof that man is 100% responsible.
 
2013-01-09 08:30:54 AM  

steamingpile: Sgygus: Here's the thing with the Global Warming... it not merely going to get warmer, the pace of getting warmer is accelerating.

I know of very few who deny warming is occurring, what I am seeing are people who are not sure what is causing it, there is not proof that man is 100% responsible.


Except for 97% of climate scientists, fo shiz.
 
2013-01-09 08:33:12 AM  

natas6.0: If it's warming it's a natural trend.
Stop being so vain as to say
'we made this happen'
or
'we can stop it from happening'
insignificant little things that we are


Just like there's no way that insignificant little things like bacteria could ever have caused massive shifts in climate by changing the atmosphere, right?
 
2013-01-09 08:36:46 AM  
Subby, please read the update to your libtard marching orders. It's not called "global warming" anymore. Page 3, Section 4.3 tells you that all references to global warming are to be referred as, "climate change."

/stoopid libtards
//it's not manmade.
 
2013-01-09 08:36:58 AM  
Some good news: US CO2 emissions are down in the last few years.

It turns out fracking and a recession did what Kyoto couldn't do.
 
2013-01-09 08:37:20 AM  

dfenstrate: Al Gore


DRINK!

Mean Daddy: Al Bore


DRINK!
 
2013-01-09 08:38:39 AM  

TheManofPA: I wonder how many people aren't going to read PN's full thing.

Always think of this for these threads:
[farm5.static.flickr.com image 500x333]


So that cartoon represents it being okay to spend money nobody has even if we're wrong or say we spend all our money trying to control temperature but Yosemite blows up in our face anyway or sun flares start doing real damage or we simply have a regularly scheduled global virus epidemic? Nobody has the right balanced economy to just start chipping into the world fund yet.
 
2013-01-09 08:42:04 AM  
Well, I thought I was funny.
 
2013-01-09 08:42:47 AM  

Psycat: I don't have any kids, so it doesn't matter much to me if the world goes to hell ten minutes after I'm buried, but you parents out there might want to take this seriously...


By doing what? Wringing of the hands? Taking anxiety medicine?
 
2013-01-09 08:43:16 AM  

MyRandomName: GAT_00: DesertDemonWY: Sgygus: Here's the thing with the Global Warming... it not merely going to get warmer, the pace of getting warmer is accelerating.

Accelerating so fast that the GLOBE hasn't warmed at all in 16 years.

Why did you choose 73 to start? That was a local minimum cool period.


I have a very hard time accepting 199X as a start date... I have a hard time with 73, 1880... No one has ever really explained to me (or provided a link) to why they chose the exact dates and why they are the most valid. Because they do seem so finely chosen, I assume every single one of those dates on both sides is cherry picking dates for the exaggerated effect.

The only date that isn't totally sketchy to me... is using the 2 billion year. However that one is very hard to judge since it's mostly extrapolation, and seeing non climate scale is impossible. They were quite specific in elementary school climate wasn't a year... or a decade... it was a very long time.

Anything prior to when we started keeping accurate temperature records, and any data using points where data haven't been kept in the exact same spot since the chosen dates seem highly suspect to me. Of course due to cities retaining heat, all the sensors within cities that got bigger and bigger are also suspect... so... maybe we're warming slightly, maybe we're not... but raising a degree or two on average over the world... doesn't really seems very problematic.
 
2013-01-09 08:45:07 AM  

UberDave: Sgygus: Here's the thing with the Global Warming... it not merely going to get warmer, the pace of getting warmer is accelerating.

And Leon's getting laaaarrrrger!


Thank you, I needed that.
 
2013-01-09 08:48:41 AM  

Psycat: When I was a kid, you could expect it to reach -20 F in the Twin Cities maybe 10-15 days per winter. Heck, it even reached -30 F in Saint Paul back in the mid-Eighties. Nowadays, it maybe goes below zero a handful of times each winter and early last March, it hit an astonishing 80 degrees, smashing the previous high temperature. I know beyond all doubt that the climate in Minnesota has changed in the last 30 years. I certainly don't mind the warm weather, but it's really starting to freak me out.

Let's hope this is just a random, transient climate change. If it's global warming, we're in for a shiatstorm of freaky climate change in the near future. I don't have any kids, so it doesn't matter much to me if the world goes to hell ten minutes after I'm buried, but you parents out there might want to take this seriously...


So... if your anecdotal evidence was right, you'd see something like a 15 degree higher average than 30 years ago in Minnesota right? That's not really what I see happening... maybe a few degrees if you pick the right comparison year. Linkie... certainly no 15 degree warm-up.

You are mis-remembering.
 
2013-01-09 08:49:42 AM  
Apparently it's OK to assume the US is the whole world again.
 
2013-01-09 08:53:46 AM  
I recognize that the data is correct. I agree that the human causation is partially correct. Those who argue otherwise are fighting a losing battle.

Here is what eats at me in all of this. ONE: I don't see a global increase in temps to be a bad thing. It will be different, but not just bad. I do not FEAR a warmer planet. TWO: It is the GW wackos screaming total doom scenarios that makes me wish to disassociate with the whole movement. Mankind will probably destroy a lot of good stuff, but temps will not accelerate and turn th globe into a cinder. Nonsense. THREE: GW people believe that all 'solutions' are government solutions, requiring massive coercive interventions which will disrupt everybody's lives and cost trillions and then more trillions. FIVE: Barring a population collapse, mankind will at some point completely overwhelm the planet, driving most species into extinction and using up most readily available resources - no matter what GW solutions are forced upon us by the state. But in my own perspective, this problem will probably self-correct, and is a problem for another generation, not ours.

If we do heat up the planet a few degrees in a few hunderd years, so be it. If it were to happen soon enough, I'll emigrate from Florida to Canada. No biggie.  Cananian babes in bikinis do not disturb my happiness very much.
 
2013-01-09 08:55:08 AM  

sendtodave: starsrift: Pocket Ninja: ...But in the end, for all intensive purposes, it's completely dishonest...

You had to ruin it, didn't you? You just had to. :(

Are the purposes more intensive than last year?


The purposes on the most intensive on record. BUT, what if they are MORE intensive NEXT year? Then the purposes this year are NOT the most intensive. See how smart I am?

Me: 6 kabillion You: -57
 
2013-01-09 08:56:09 AM  

EVERYBODY PANIC: I recognize that the data is correct. I agree that the human causation is partially correct. Those who argue otherwise are fighting a losing battle.

Here is what eats at me in all of this. ONE: I don't see a global increase in temps to be a bad thing. It will be different, but not just bad. I do not FEAR a warmer planet. TWO: It is the GW wackos screaming total doom scenarios that makes me wish to disassociate with the whole movement. Mankind will probably destroy a lot of good stuff, but temps will not accelerate and turn th globe into a cinder. Nonsense. THREE: GW people believe that all 'solutions' are government solutions, requiring massive coercive interventions which will disrupt everybody's lives and cost trillions and then more trillions. FIVE: Barring a population collapse, mankind will at some point completely overwhelm the planet, driving most species into extinction and using up most readily available resources - no matter what GW solutions are forced upon us by the state. But in my own perspective, this problem will probably self-correct, and is a problem for another generation, not ours.

If we do heat up the planet a few degrees in a few hunderd years, so be it. If it were to happen soon enough, I'll emigrate from Florida to Canada. No biggie.  Cananian babes in bikinis do not disturb my happiness very much.


How..myopic. Your perspective alone, of course, is all that matters. Not the coastal communities.
 
2013-01-09 08:56:26 AM  

symbolset: Apparently it's OK to assume the US is the whole world again.


Would the term "national warming" sooth that sore vag?
 
2013-01-09 09:02:03 AM  

Dadoody: [icecap.us image 818x526]
icecap.us


img541.imageshack.us
 
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