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(The New York Times)   How's that austerity working out for you, Eurozone?   (nytimes.com) divider line 62
    More: Fail, trade surplus, factory orders, sovereign bond, sustainable level, Prime Ministers of Greece, eurozone, Mario Draghi, sovereign debt crisis  
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3212 clicks; posted to Business » on 08 Jan 2013 at 11:58 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-08 12:01:21 PM  
Why conservatives touch themselves whenever they hear bad news from the EU?.
 
2013-01-08 12:02:42 PM  
German banker 1: Hey, Fritz, do you remember what your dad said the world did to his family after World War 1?
German banker 2: Yeah, Hans, crashed the German economy through forced austerity measures to the point where grandma and grandpa ate boiled shoes to survive.
German banker 1: Don't you think it's time we did that to the rest of the world?
German banker 3: Let's put it to a vote.
(Vote is unanimous)
....
 
2013-01-08 12:04:00 PM  
They'll let you know as soon as there actually is any austerity in the eurozone.
 
2013-01-08 12:10:01 PM  
Since Europe can't pay its bills and austerity just makes the problem worse, they should have just started defaulting years ago.
 
2013-01-08 12:16:01 PM  
But... but... but Latvia!
 
2013-01-08 12:18:17 PM  
this articles of confederation shiat isn't gonna work. unite biatches.
 
2013-01-08 12:19:21 PM  

MugzyBrown: They'll let you know as soon as there actually is any austerity in the eurozone.


There is no parking in the Eurozone.

/Austerity is bad.
//Which is why the Republicans are working so hard to cut spending, which is austerity.
///Republicans are bad, bad boys. It's why they get all the cute chicks.
 
2013-01-08 12:28:56 PM  
They should just borrow more. When the borrowings and interest come due, just borrow more to pay them. So on and so on. It's a foolproof plan that will never ever cause any problems!
 
2013-01-08 12:31:54 PM  
What they should do is provide a buffer for their citizens while the economy is bad and then use the increased revenue caused by the improved economy to pay off that debt and store up a surplus in case things get bad again.  Keep it in a "locked box" of some sort.
 
2013-01-08 12:34:13 PM  

MugzyBrown: They'll let you know as soon as there actually is any austerity in the eurozone.


Yeah ... it's all just imaginary.

Seriously, you really don't measure up to the usual threadsh*tters.
 
2013-01-08 12:40:18 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: They should just borrow more. When the borrowings and interest come due, just borrow more to pay them. So on and so on. It's a foolproof plan that will never ever cause any problems!


You know they should just keep cutting taxes and spending until they moving to the left of the Laffer curve until they infinity euros. This plan has failed just about every single time it has been attempted just means that is is due to succeed any moment now.
 
2013-01-08 12:54:03 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: ///Republicans are bad, bad boys. It's why they get all the cute chicks guys.


FTFE
 
2013-01-08 12:56:06 PM  

max_pooper: Debeo Summa Credo: They should just borrow more. When the borrowings and interest come due, just borrow more to pay them. So on and so on. It's a foolproof plan that will never ever cause any problems!

You know they should just keep cutting taxes and spending until they moving to the left of the Laffer curve until they infinity euros. This plan has failed just about every single time it has been attempted just means that is is due to succeed any moment now.


Not sure what you're saying. Continue cutting taxes and cutting spending, or "continue cutting taxes, and continue spending"?

The latter is a recipe for disaster, I agree. The former is can be beneficial or harmful, depending on where you are starting from.
 
2013-01-08 12:58:12 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: They should just borrow more. When the borrowings and interest come due, just borrow more to pay them. So on and so on. It's a foolproof plan that will never ever cause any problems!


max_pooper: You know they should just keep cutting taxes and spending until they moving to the left of the Laffer curve until they infinity euros. This plan has failed just about every single time it has been attempted just means that is is due to succeed any moment now.


Now THIS is a thread.

/ Government budget management in any country is like watching a homeopathic practitioner, a Christian scientist, an astrologer and a witch doctor argue over how to treat a cancer patient
 
2013-01-08 12:59:41 PM  
It's just a beta test for the Republican plan. It will be great for the rich because it drives wages down.
 
2013-01-08 01:00:27 PM  

kmmontandon: Yeah ... it's all just imaginary.

Seriously, you really don't measure up to the usual threadsh*tters.


How many of the struggling countries in Europe have a balanced budget?

Those super austere countries like Spain, Greece and the UK are running deficits over 6% of GDP.

Whoa look at that austerity.

Plus you can't rack up huge unfunded liabilities, and then hope to make it all go away by cutting back a little for a few years.
 
2013-01-08 01:01:12 PM  
Krugman right again.

/damn that Nobel prize
 
2013-01-08 01:03:42 PM  

max_pooper: Debeo Summa Credo: They should just borrow more. When the borrowings and interest come due, just borrow more to pay them. So on and so on. It's a foolproof plan that will never ever cause any problems!

You know they should just keep cutting taxes and spending until they moving to the left of the Laffer curve until they infinity euros. This plan has failed just about every single time it has been attempted just means that is is due to succeed any moment now.


I know you're joking, but, for instance, the UK vat tax (a national sales tax) is 24%.
 
2013-01-08 01:09:04 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: MugzyBrown: They'll let you know as soon as there actually is any austerity in the eurozone.

There is no parking in the Eurozone.

/Austerity is bad.
//Which is why the Republicans are working so hard to cut spending, which is austerity.
///Republicans are bad, bad boys. It's why they get all the cute chicks.


There is no sex in the champagne room.
 
2013-01-08 01:10:28 PM  
Of course it's not working!

They need to keep giving it's people free handouts so they can't spend more of their governments debt!
 
2013-01-08 01:10:41 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: MugzyBrown: They'll let you know as soon as there actually is any austerity in the eurozone.

There is no parking in the Eurozone.

/Austerity is bad.
//Which is why the Republicans are working so hard to cut spending, which is austerity.
///Republicans are bad, bad boys. It's why they get all the cute chicks.


Oh really, Vernon? Why pretend, we both know perfectly well what this is about. You want me to have an abortion.
 
2013-01-08 01:11:38 PM  

MugzyBrown: kmmontandon: Yeah ... it's all just imaginary.

Seriously, you really don't measure up to the usual threadsh*tters.

How many of the struggling countries in Europe have a balanced budget?

Those super austere countries like Spain, Greece and the UK are running deficits over 6% of GDP.

Whoa look at that austerity.

Plus you can't rack up huge unfunded liabilities, and then hope to make it all go away by cutting back a little for a few years.


Too right which is why the US should suspend all government functions except tax collection, including the military, Social Security, and law enforcement when the debt ceiling is hit, until such a time as the debt is paid for.
 
2013-01-08 01:35:44 PM  
The whole concept of austerity is inherently ridiculous and doomed to failure.
 
2013-01-08 01:43:34 PM  
Meh - people in Europe don't need jobs; they just sign on for the dole.

And we get free health care!

It totally makes the 51% income tax rate and ~20% sales tax worth it :)

Go EU Go!
 
2013-01-08 01:51:37 PM  

dudemanbro: The whole concept of austerity is inherently ridiculous and doomed to failure.


Meh, I compare austerity to homeopathy.  The proponents think it works for everything, while the skeptics think it works for nothing.  Homeopathy actually works in some cases.  If you're dehydrated, for example, you should drink water.  Except if politics was a patient, the very mention of homeopathy as an ideology would prevent the skeptics from giving water to someone dying of thirst, while the proponents would avoid defending water to prevent their Answer to Everything from being exposed as just plain water.  It's amazing how irrational people get when ideology is involved.

When any debate starts with the solution, you know it's gone off the rails.  That's what makes this one easy to not take seriously.
 
2013-01-08 02:04:57 PM  
Can we stop pretending that these "austerity" measures were supposed to do things like lower unemployment and boost short-term GDP growth? They're meant to assure creditors that these countries are at least marginally committed to adopting sustainable budgets in the medium to long term.
 
2013-01-08 02:16:02 PM  
I love the example of Iceland. They got screwed by the banking system, leaving the country with massive per-capita debt. So what'd they vote to do? They said fark the rest of the debt holders, we're not repaying shait. $4 billion split between ~300,000 is a pretty big sum. That move made their country credit the level of junk bonds.

But then something happened.

Their unemployment is now below 5% and their GDP is growing steadily. They imposed price controls, along with tax increases. And are frankly, kicking the crap out of the EU when it comes to economic recovery.
\can't wait to visit Iceland again, in a couple of weeks.
 
2013-01-08 02:31:03 PM  
The whole world economy needs to pull an Iceland and just reboot/start over cancel all debts, both private and public.
 
2013-01-08 02:41:54 PM  
So ... are they going to reform their banking system, and start spreading the wealth around? Enough of this austerity bullsh*t. The money is going to the banks and the wealthiest. It is hurting everyone else.
 
2013-01-08 02:44:49 PM  
They're going to fight this war to the last Greek and the last Spaniard...
 
2013-01-08 02:50:30 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: They should just borrow more. When the borrowings and interest come due, just borrow more to pay them. So on and so on. It's a foolproof plan that will never ever cause any problems!


i51.tinypic.com
 
2013-01-08 02:51:55 PM  

MugzyBrown: kmmontandon: Yeah ... it's all just imaginary.

Seriously, you really don't measure up to the usual threadsh*tters.

How many of the struggling countries in Europe have a balanced budget?

Those super austere countries like Spain, Greece and the UK are running deficits over 6% of GDP.

Whoa look at that austerity.

Plus you can't rack up huge unfunded liabilities, and then hope to make it all go away by cutting back a little for a few years.


The UK doesn't claim to have done any austerity. Anyway we're not in the Euro.

Spain HAS slashed government employment and spending. But the resulting recession has slashed revenues. Which is exactly the problem with austerity.

What exactly was your point?
 
2013-01-08 03:01:05 PM  
It's like this.  Say you're morbidly obese.  The obesity represents your debt.  Now under austerity you're just going to stop eating but the problem is you'll die of starvation before you lose the weight.   Just a big fat malnourished corpse.
 
2013-01-08 03:09:37 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: There is no parking in the Eurozone.


Oh really, Vernon? Why pretend, we both know perfectly well what this is about. You want me to have an abortion.
 
2013-01-08 03:19:27 PM  
Haw-haw!
Guess who can't afford a flu shot!
 
2013-01-08 03:40:17 PM  

lilbjorn: It's just a beta test for the Republican plan. It will be great for the rich because it drives wages down.


Globalization. It was never going to make everyone rich. It may erase national boundaries, to some extent, by reorganizing economic stratification, leading to a global elite, a modest worldwide middle-class, and an impoverished working class around the world (including in "developed" economies, where consumer credit plays a huge role in perpetuating the illusion that we are in fact well-off).
 
2013-01-08 03:42:00 PM  

dragonchild: Homeopathy actually works in some cases. If you're dehydrated, for example, you should drink water.


Not sure if serious...
 
2013-01-08 03:43:44 PM  

MrSteve007: I love the example of Iceland. They got screwed by the banking system, leaving the country with massive per-capita debt. So what'd they vote to do? They said fark the rest of the debt holders, we're not repaying shait. $4 billion split between ~300,000 is a pretty big sum. That move made their country credit the level of junk bonds.

But then something happened.

Their unemployment is now below 5% and their GDP is growing steadily. They imposed price controls, along with tax increases. And are frankly, kicking the crap out of the EU when it comes to economic recovery.
\can't wait to visit Iceland again, in a couple of weeks.


Because Iceland, a nation with 230,000 voters registered in six districts, valued at $14.06 billion GDP is totally comparable to the US, with 165 million registered voters in 437 districts (can't forget DC and PR) and a GDP 1,000 times the size.

Not to mention that the world currency is dollars, not volcano chips (or whatever Bjork's family uses to pay the bills).
 
2013-01-08 03:47:30 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: They should just borrow more. When the borrowings and interest come due, just borrow more to pay them. So on and so on. It's a foolproof plan that will never ever cause any problems!


Maybe they need to mint some trillion dollar coins.
 
2013-01-08 04:12:56 PM  
In the case of Germany, austerity has led to low unemployment of 5.4% and steady (albeit slow) economic growth for the last several quarters. The Euro is selling for $1.31, far above it's intended 1:1 parity with the U.S. Dollar. So I'd say that Germans are enjoying the austerity quite a bit, although they're probably not happy about bailing out perennial underperformers like Greece.
 
2013-01-08 04:12:58 PM  

ShawnDoc: The Jami Turman Fan Club: There is no parking in the Eurozone.

Oh really, Vernon? Why pretend, we both know perfectly well what this is about. You want me to have an abortion.


It's really the only sensible thing to do, if its done safely. Therapeutically there's no danger involved.
 
2013-01-08 04:48:42 PM  

Shazam999: max_pooper: Debeo Summa Credo: They should just borrow more. When the borrowings and interest come due, just borrow more to pay them. So on and so on. It's a foolproof plan that will never ever cause any problems!

You know they should just keep cutting taxes and spending until they moving to the left of the Laffer curve until they infinity euros. This plan has failed just about every single time it has been attempted just means that is is due to succeed any moment now.

I know you're joking, but, for instance, the UK vat tax (a national sales tax) is 24%.


It's 20%.

Which should give you an idea about what a so called "Fair Tax" rate on consumption would end up at.
 
2013-01-08 04:52:23 PM  

MrSteve007: I love the example of Iceland. They got screwed by the banking system, leaving the country with massive per-capita debt. So what'd they vote to do? They said fark the rest of the debt holders, we're not repaying shait. $4 billion split between ~300,000 is a pretty big sum. That move made their country credit the level of junk bonds.

But then something happened.

Their unemployment is now below 5% and their GDP is growing steadily. They imposed price controls, along with tax increases. And are frankly, kicking the crap out of the EU when it comes to economic recovery.
\can't wait to visit Iceland again, in a couple of weeks.


I reckon the Prime Minister of the next country that looks set to try that will wake up with a horses head in his bed.
 
2013-01-08 06:08:21 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Because Iceland, a nation with 230,000 voters registered in six districts, valued at $14.06 billion GDP is totally comparable to the US, with 165 million registered voters in 437 districts (can't forget DC and PR) and a GDP 1,000 times the size.

Not to mention that the world currency is dollars, not volcano chips (or whatever Bjork's family uses to pay the bills).


Yes, because economics totally becomes alchemy once your GDP goes above $1 trillion.
 
2013-01-08 06:36:53 PM  

Lumpmoose: But... but... but Latvia!


?

The article is about the Eurozone doing fine. Subby is just trolling.

What are you on about?
 
2013-01-08 06:39:30 PM  

Koalacaust: Can we stop pretending that these "austerity" measures were supposed to do things like lower unemployment and boost short-term GDP growth? They're meant to assure creditors that these countries are at least marginally committed to adopting sustainable budgets in the medium to long term.


People aren't pretending, they're genuinely morons.
 
2013-01-08 07:07:49 PM  

rogue49: Krugman right again.

/damn that Nobel prize


Krugman? The guy who applauded 30 years of artificially low interest rates, increasing debt, the formation of the housing bubble and wasting more money on the military and other things that produce no return? Sorry, he's been about as wrong as Nobel prize winner Gunnar Myrdal, who won his prize for work demonstrating that India's economy would collapse if they got rid of their massive bureaucracy (they did, and it didn't). The Nobel prize winners who have been right are Friedrich Hayek and Vernon Smith.
 
2013-01-08 07:14:57 PM  
Don't be stupid subby, it's time we make the government like a business! And as everyone knows, the way to make your business more successful is by downsizing until there's nothing left, then breaking the company apart and selling what's left to patent trolls and Chinese conglomerates.
 
2013-01-08 07:19:18 PM  

opiumpoopy: Spain HAS slashed government employment and spending. But the resulting recession has slashed revenues. Which is exactly the problem with

purpose of austerity.

Rebooting is painful. Not rebooting will be even more painful. Once you decide to borrow your prosperity (which we did several decades ago) you can never stop. Like a snowball rolling downhill, you have to keep borrowing more and more until there's nothing left to borrow; then you have to start printing money (we're in this phase now). Then the whole house of cards collapses. Do you really think that we can deficit-spend our way to prosperity and then stop (e.g., balance the budget)? As soon as we do that, it's game over... we're right back where we are now, but with more debt and massive unemployment.
 
2013-01-08 08:23:11 PM  

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Shazam999: max_pooper: Debeo Summa Credo: They should just borrow more. When the borrowings and interest come due, just borrow more to pay them. So on and so on. It's a foolproof plan that will never ever cause any problems!

You know they should just keep cutting taxes and spending until they moving to the left of the Laffer curve until they infinity euros. This plan has failed just about every single time it has been attempted just means that is is due to succeed any moment now.

I know you're joking, but, for instance, the UK vat tax (a national sales tax) is 24%.

It's 20%.

Which should give you an idea about what a so called "Fair Tax" rate on consumption would end up at.


Oops, yes it's 20%.
 
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