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(Talking Points Memo)   Gun rights activists livid that the White House is considering legislation that may do more than ban cosmetic firearm features   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 674
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2746 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Jan 2013 at 9:58 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-08 09:44:53 AM  
Just a few more days left to hit 150, so then it can go to the public
Of course if it fails this time. I'll try again after rewording it.
 
2013-01-08 09:51:18 AM  
Cuz otherwise they're cool, calm and collected.
 
2013-01-08 09:54:09 AM  
The whitehouse MIGHT CONSIDER something?  To the streets brothers! The time has come to rise up!
 
2013-01-08 10:00:46 AM  
"Gun rights activist" is such a hilarious euphemism for mental illness.
 
2013-01-08 10:02:42 AM  
From the source article:

A working group led by Vice President Biden is seriously considering measures backed by key law enforcement leaders that would require universal background checks for firearm buyers, track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database, strengthen mental health checks, and stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools or giving them to minors, the sources said.

Which of these is objectionable to gun rights advocates?
 
2013-01-08 10:03:53 AM  
First gun thread of the day?....WAIT WAAAAIT
www.safety-recalls.org
nononononoooWAAAIT hold ooooon
www.simplyrecipes.com
Ok, GO!
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-01-08 10:04:13 AM  
"Gun rights"  What a nonsensical term for lobyists.

The best thing to do would be to repeal the misleadingly named "Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act".  There is no reason for gun makers and dealers to have immunity from lawsuits.
 
2013-01-08 10:04:52 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: From the source article:

A working group led by Vice President Biden is seriously considering measures backed by key law enforcement leaders that would require universal background checks for firearm buyers, track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database, strengthen mental health checks, and stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools or giving them to minors, the sources said.

Which of these is objectionable to gun rights advocates?


Well, presumably the last part, since they want to arm all teachers and principals, those crazy guys.
 
2013-01-08 10:06:12 AM  
cretinbob:
Of course if it fails this time. I'll try again after rewording it.

Is there anything stupider on Earth than these petitions?
 
2013-01-08 10:06:39 AM  
Sorry gun nuts. Most people don't think your hobby is worth the body count any more.
 
2013-01-08 10:07:04 AM  
The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, ... or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of the press.


Jefferson, Letter to Major John Cartwright (5 June 1824).
 
2013-01-08 10:07:11 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: From the source article:

A working group led by Vice President Biden is seriously considering measures backed by key law enforcement leaders that would require universal background checks for firearm buyers, track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database, strengthen mental health checks, and stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools or giving them to minors, the sources said.

Which of these is objectionable to gun rights advocates?


If I'm honest, that's pretty reasonable and addresses the issues without resorting to the stupidity of both sides.
 
2013-01-08 10:07:52 AM  
I believe strongly in the original intent of the Founders, and they fully meant for Americans to keep and bear arms.

And by arms, I mean the firearms that existed in 1783, so let's keep blackpowder legal, folks!

/blunderbuss is perfect for home defense
 
2013-01-08 10:08:25 AM  

vpb: "Gun rights"  What a nonsensical term for lobyists.

The best thing to do would be to repeal the misleadingly named "Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act".  There is no reason for gun makers and dealers to have immunity from lawsuits.


Just like big pharma.....

Other than using a firearm....all of the spree killers have been on drugs that supress anxiety....that mechanism that helps you pick right from wrong.
 
2013-01-08 10:08:46 AM  

T-Servo: I believe strongly in the original intent of the Founders, and they fully meant for Americans to keep and bear arms.

And by arms, I mean the firearms that existed in 1783, so let's keep blackpowder legal, folks!

/blunderbuss is perfect for home defense


Quills and ink for all!
 
2013-01-08 10:08:48 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: From the source article:

A working group led by Vice President Biden is seriously considering measures backed by key law enforcement leaders that would require universal background checks for firearm buyers, track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database, strengthen mental health checks, and stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools or giving them to minors, the sources said.

Which of these is objectionable to gun rights advocates?


All of it.

I can see their "reasoning" for objecting to each (Very f--king Reasonable) measure.  I just think it's "stupid".
 
2013-01-08 10:09:09 AM  

trotsky: Philip Francis Queeg: From the source article:

A working group led by Vice President Biden is seriously considering measures backed by key law enforcement leaders that would require universal background checks for firearm buyers, track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database, strengthen mental health checks, and stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools or giving them to minors, the sources said.

Which of these is objectionable to gun rights advocates?

If I'm honest, that's pretty reasonable and addresses the issues without resorting to the stupidity of both sides.


Well. Good then. It's agreed, we proceed from this basis.

We've found the middle ground, gentlemen! You're welcome, The Rest of America.
 
2013-01-08 10:09:49 AM  

orclover: First gun thread of the day?....WAIT WAAAAIT
Ok, GO!


This isn't even the first (or second) gun thread of this tab.
 
2013-01-08 10:10:03 AM  
yah, like you're gonna take guns away from americans. we should probably get rid of that old, outdated piece of paper, too. you know, that 'constitution' thing.
 
2013-01-08 10:10:14 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Which of these is objectionable to gun rights advocates?


universal background checks for firearm buyers: OMG REGISTRATION! NAZIS!! GUN-GRABBERS!
track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database: OMG REGISTRATION! NAZIS!! GUN-GRABBERS!
strengthen mental health checks: OMG REGISTRATION! NAZIS!! GUN-GRABBERS!
stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools...: So all criminals will know that everyone in a school is unarmed. WHY DO YOU THINK THAT'S WHERE THEY RAMPAGE?!?
...or giving them to minors: What, now I can't teach my 8-year old how to shoot?

Those are, as I understand, their arguments. Anything which tracks sales, weapons, or people is "a draconian registration regime" and is exactly what Oskar Schindler would have fought against (were he alive and American), and anything which relies on people to follow the law is negated because "criminals don't follow laws".

// regarding the last, a friend taught her 8- and 10-year olds how to shoot (they go camping a lot), and they've never had an accident
// proper supervision of kids (who are now in their 20s) and weapons should suffice in that scenario, and for god's sake, don't let them handle the weapon without you EVER
 
2013-01-08 10:10:27 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: From the source article:

A working group led by Vice President Biden is seriously considering measures backed by key law enforcement leaders that would require universal background checks for firearm buyers, track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database, strengthen mental health checks, and stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools or giving them to minors, the sources said.

Which of these is objectionable to gun rights advocates?


The carrying near schools and tracking/national database ideas.
 
2013-01-08 10:10:55 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: From the source article:

A working group led by Vice President Biden is seriously considering measures backed by key law enforcement leaders that would require universal background checks for firearm buyers, track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database, strengthen mental health checks, and stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools or giving them to minors, the sources said.

Which of these is objectionable to gun rights advocates?


The one that bans the private sale of firearms and mandates a national registration of all guns.
 
2013-01-08 10:11:34 AM  
Can we have similar databases to track people's religious affiliations as well as their movements?

That would be great!
 
2013-01-08 10:11:45 AM  

Giltric: vpb: "Gun rights"  What a nonsensical term for lobyists.

The best thing to do would be to repeal the misleadingly named "Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act".  There is no reason for gun makers and dealers to have immunity from lawsuits.

Just like big pharma.....

Other than using a firearm....all of the spree killers have been on drugs that supress anxiety....that mechanism that helps you pick right from wrong.


I read that stupid article too. It was so full of inaccuracies and false logic I could barely stand it. That whole article was just ridiculous.

Also, BIG PHARMA IS NOT IMMUNE FROM LAWSUITS.
 
2013-01-08 10:11:57 AM  

Giltric: Other than using a firearm....all of the spree killers have been on drugs that supress anxiety....that mechanism that helps you pick right from wrong.


um... serotonin boosting drugs don't suppress anxiety, esp. in b.p. patients. please review your neurochemistry before posting. kthnx.
 
2013-01-08 10:12:01 AM  

cabbyman: Can we have similar databases to track people's religious affiliations as well as their movements?

That would be great!


Don't forget abortion.
 
2013-01-08 10:12:20 AM  

utah dude: yah, like you're gonna take guns away from americans. we should probably get rid of that old, outdated piece of paper, too. you know, that 'constitution' thing.


Who is "taking guns away from Americans"?
 
2013-01-08 10:12:33 AM  

Giltric: Philip Francis Queeg: From the source article:

A working group led by Vice President Biden is seriously considering measures backed by key law enforcement leaders that would require universal background checks for firearm buyers, track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database, strengthen mental health checks, and stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools or giving them to minors, the sources said.

Which of these is objectionable to gun rights advocates?

The carrying near schools and tracking/national database ideas.


What's specifically objectionable about each?
 
2013-01-08 10:12:55 AM  

Giltric: cabbyman: Can we have similar databases to track people's religious affiliations as well as their movements?

That would be great!

Don't forget abortion.


Do you actually think these things are similar, or are you just being a douche?
 
2013-01-08 10:13:43 AM  

Mrbogey: Philip Francis Queeg: From the source article:

A working group led by Vice President Biden is seriously considering measures backed by key law enforcement leaders that would require universal background checks for firearm buyers, track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database, strengthen mental health checks, and stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools or giving them to minors, the sources said.

Which of these is objectionable to gun rights advocates?

The one that bans the private sale of firearms and mandates a national registration of all guns.


Where does it say that?
 
2013-01-08 10:13:44 AM  
Conservatives are totally obsessed with the idea that the ATF is going to start stomping through their houses seizing their guns just before Obama changes the constitution to make himself socialist dictator for life.

Now is the perfect time to act on all the other legislation that conservatives usually get up in arms about, like a public option for healthcare, raising or eliminating the Social Security FICA cap, decriminalizing drugs, etc...., while they are completely focused on preventing gun seizures.
 
2013-01-08 10:14:03 AM  
Maybe gun rights activists shouldn't have been so cocky trying to make a point of how useless the current bans were then. Learn how to negotiate geniuses.
 
2013-01-08 10:14:06 AM  

poorcku: The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, ... or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed with any weapon that is ever conceived in the future no matter the nature or intended uses; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of the press.


Jefferson, Letter to Major John Cartwright (5 June 1824).


The bolded bit doesn't actually exist, and therefore the quote has no relevance to any of the suggested laws or restrictions being put forward, unless you want to argue that crazy people must be allowed to have guns (and presumably convicted felons in their cells, after all they need the protection of guns more than most).
 
2013-01-08 10:14:42 AM  

utah dude: Giltric: Other than using a firearm....all of the spree killers have been on drugs that supress anxiety....that mechanism that helps you pick right from wrong.

um... serotonin boosting drugs don't suppress anxiety, esp. in b.p. patients. please review your neurochemistry before posting. kthnx.


He's referring to an article that was written recently which attempts to prove that all the recent gun violence by children was the fault of the medication they were on. It's a stupid article that I'm not going to bother to link to because it doesn't deserve to be read.
 
2013-01-08 10:14:53 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: What's specifically objectionable about each?


I wish the Socratic method worked on conservatives.
 
2013-01-08 10:15:10 AM  
Subby needs to learn the definition of "livid". Some people might be concerned here, but I didn't see anyone who was "livid".
 
2013-01-08 10:15:59 AM  

Koalaesq: He's referring to an article that was written recently which attempts to prove that all the recent gun violence by children was the fault of the medication they were on. It's a stupid article that I'm not going to bother to link to because it doesn't deserve to be read.


+1 for your discernment.
 
2013-01-08 10:16:03 AM  
AIDS kills a similar number of people each year as guns in America.

Can we get a database going that tracks the movements of people with AIDS please?
 
2013-01-08 10:16:21 AM  
I hope after Obama takes all the guns, tough guys walk around with katanas. Sword fights are just classier.
 
2013-01-08 10:16:27 AM  
"[The article] was a Molotov cocktail right into the middle of this thing," Dave Workman, a former board member at the National Rifle Association, told TPM Monday. "That lit the fuse, it really did."

Dave, you didn't even need the article to get your fuse lit. The gun rights crowd gets itself whipped into a panic every time there's a mass shooting and rushes out to buy whatever gun just got used to kill a bunch of people whether anyone opens their damned mouth about gun control or not.
 
2013-01-08 10:17:18 AM  

cabbyman: AIDS kills a similar number of people each year as guns in America.

Can we get a database going that tracks the movements of people with AIDS please?


AIDS is not a weapon designed to kill, it is a preventable disease. These are not at all the same and you know that.
 
2013-01-08 10:17:30 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: carrying guns near schools


To be fair, that's a little vague... If I have to drive past a school to get to the range, i don't want to get arrested for it. That's the problem with these "500 foot zones", and stuff like that. Carrying guns AT schools, that is less broad.
 
2013-01-08 10:18:03 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Giltric: Philip Francis Queeg: From the source article:

A working group led by Vice President Biden is seriously considering measures backed by key law enforcement leaders that would require universal background checks for firearm buyers, track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database, strengthen mental health checks, and stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools or giving them to minors, the sources said.

Which of these is objectionable to gun rights advocates?

The carrying near schools and tracking/national database ideas.

What's specifically objectionable about each?


We have to replace all our teachers with Navy SEALs, because freedom. But if you want to keep track of firearms, well, that means you're invading privacy. And it scares the Red Dawn fetishists who think they stand a realistic chance against the US military on its home turf.
 
2013-01-08 10:18:13 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Mrbogey: Philip Francis Queeg: From the source article:

A working group led by Vice President Biden is seriously considering measures backed by key law enforcement leaders that would require universal background checks for firearm buyers, track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database, strengthen mental health checks, and stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools or giving them to minors, the sources said.

Which of these is objectionable to gun rights advocates?

The one that bans the private sale of firearms and mandates a national registration of all guns.

Where does it say that?


while a universal background check could mean creating a way for private citizens to access a system to securely check out their buyer, it means in practice a requirement that all firearm sales go through a FFL. That would result in a 35-45$ increase in the price of guns. Which would negatively affect the ability of poor people to buy a firearm for self-defense.

I disagree with the idea of making it expensive for people to enjoy their rights.
 
2013-01-08 10:18:51 AM  

cabbyman: AIDS kills a similar number of people each year as guns in America.

Can we get a database going that tracks the movements of people with AIDS please?


HIV/AIDS Statistics and Surveillance
 
2013-01-08 10:18:53 AM  

cabbyman: AIDS kills a similar number of people each year as guns in America.

Can we get a database going that tracks the movements of people with AIDS please?


By a similar number do you mean a little more than half?
 
2013-01-08 10:19:12 AM  

Giltric: vpb: "Gun rights"  What a nonsensical term for lobyists.

The best thing to do would be to repeal the misleadingly named "Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act".  There is no reason for gun makers and dealers to have immunity from lawsuits.

Just like big pharma.....

Other than using a firearm....all of the spree killers have been on drugs that supress anxiety....that mechanism that helps you pick right from wrong.


Someone's been reading Drudge this morning. Protip: WND is not a source for news, it's the flip side of the Onion.

Someone also has no firsthand knowledge of what antipsychotic medications do and should probably have a seat right over...there. Yeah, that should do it.
 
2013-01-08 10:19:14 AM  

Mikey1969: Philip Francis Queeg: carrying guns near schools

To be fair, that's a little vague... If I have to drive past a school to get to the range, i don't want to get arrested for it. That's the problem with these "500 foot zones", and stuff like that. Carrying guns AT schools, that is less broad.


True, but I do believe that most officers are totally reasonable about that. If you get a traffic stop in front of a school, they're not gonna ping you for the pack of cigarettes in your pocket. I'd suspect if you had an open carry or a hunting rifle or something they wouldn't care, as long as you weren't actually visiting the school grounds, just going past. There's always Officer Dickhead, but other than that.
 
2013-01-08 10:19:22 AM  
Good. Go big. Leaves room in the middle.
 
2013-01-08 10:19:35 AM  

LasersHurt: cabbyman: AIDS kills a similar number of people each year as guns in America.

Can we get a database going that tracks the movements of people with AIDS please?

AIDS is not a weapon designed to kill, it is a preventable disease. These are not at all the same and you know that.


Incorrect. The important thing is the number of people that die and we can reduce that number by carefully tracking each individual AID.
 
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