gadian: I stopped with the series when the story got insufferably dull and stuck in quicksand and I only really wanted to follow one plot line and that one became the author's domination/spank fantasy. Really don't like how he treated his women.

I think you're confusing the Wheel of Time with the Sword of Truth. It's pretty easy to do. Just remember: the Wheel of Time is full of Rand al'Thor and awkward polygamy, while the Sword of Truth is full of Ayn Rand and awkward BDSM.

had98c: Handsome B. Wonderful: 2000 characters. 1500 of them Aes Sedai. 1000 of them who have a name that starts with M.

At least it's not the Silmarillion. Good god. Feanor, Finrod Felagund, Finarfin, Fingolfin, Finawcrapigiveupafin!

I know. Sometimes, I get confused by the names Frank, Fred, Feris, Fenton, and Finn. It's all like, "You mean I have to pay attention to more than just the first three letters? Fark that! I don't have time for that crap!"

divZero: So no ebook version until April? WTF. It's money-grab shiat like this that makes otherwise decent guys like me figure out alternatives lets me justify stealing it instead.

No reason they can't release both at the same time just like every other damn publisher now days.

No reason they should have to satisfy your impatience/demands, either.

Welp, I reckon it's time to whip out the Eye of the World. I decide about 5 years ago that I'd not read any more till it's done, so I can read it all at once and not forget everything. I

I was up way too late the other night reading through endless blogs and literary reviews trying to figure out what the big deal is with this series. I have a couple of friends that are obsessed with it, and this book in particular, but they've never been able to explain what they like about it, or even what it's about. Other than "fantasy" or "it's like Lord of the Rings but not".

And that troubles me, because I grew up reading fantasy, and these friends otherwise have the same taste in books as I do.

texdent: Jclark666: while the Sword of Truth is full of Ayn Rand and awkward BDSM.

And raep, lots and lots of raep.

Personally my favorite scene was when Kahlan sucked her period blood off her husband's dick, while thinking it was his brother. Between that, and the rats chewing in to Cara's stomach, Temple of the Winds was memorable indeed

This is my favorite series. I have reread the series numerous times cover to cover, up to whichever book had recently been released. It is the series by which I judge all others.

I cannot wait to read the final book, I cannot wait to see a conclusion to Jordan's vision, and I cannot wait to see the final chapter he wrote.

/RAFO, RAFO.

Worst crap I've ever read. It embarrasses me to admit I even know the material, let alone read 5 of the books after having gone through the first one in county jail, where options were limited. I'm the type of guy who likes to finish what he started, and have read some horrible books because of that, but that's still no excuse for me to have made it so far in that series.

Sadly, there are zillions of people who will believe that this is a Wheel of Time book and pay good money for what is essentially just authorized fanfic. The only difference between what you'll get in this book and what you can find at http://www.fanfiction.net/forums/book/Wheel-of-Time/ is that the book will have more editing.

Regardless, that doesn't make it a Wheel of Time book. Dress it up all you want. Get the son/nephew/assistant/whoever to write it. Base it on some notes you dug out of Grampa's writing desk. It's still just fan fiction, with maybe a little editing and some tenuous tie to the original author.

tillerman35: Sadly, there are zillions of people who will believe that this is a Wheel of Time book and pay good money for what is essentially just authorized fanfic. The only difference between what you'll get in this book and what you can find at http://www.fanfiction.net/forums/book/Wheel-of-Time/ is that the book will have more editing.

Regardless, that doesn't make it a Wheel of Time book. Dress it up all you want. Get the son/nephew/assistant/whoever to write it. Base it on some notes you dug out of Grampa's writing desk. It's still just fan fiction, with maybe a little editing and some tenuous tie to the original author.

Sanderson is a better writer than Jordan and has imagination on par with Jordan(Jordan's primary strength).

bhcompy:
Sanderson is a better writer than Jordan and has imagination on par with Jordan(Jordan's primary strength).

So he's a really GOOD fan fiction author. It still doesn't change the fact that he's ripping off a dead guy's life's work. There are a good authors on www.fanfiction.net too. Maybe he should contribute to the Harry Potter forum. If he's into the erotic stuff, he could even do a mash-up and have Hermione Granger do a four-way with Rand al'Thor, Perrin Aybara, and Matrim Cauthon.

HotWingAgenda: I was up way too late the other night reading through endless blogs and literary reviews trying to figure out what the big deal is with this series. I have a couple of friends that are obsessed with it, and this book in particular, but they've never been able to explain what they like about it, or even what it's about. Other than "fantasy" or "it's like Lord of the Rings but not".

And that troubles me, because I grew up reading fantasy, and these friends otherwise have the same taste in books as I do.

Primarily nostalgia. Remember, the first book came out in 1990 or so. If you remember what high fantasy written in the '70s/'80s was like, which I know you do because no fantasy reader reads exclusively new shiat, you'll maybe realize what a relief it was to finally get a book that took the material seriously, but wasn't particularly pretentious, whereas even bad sci-fi was more legitimate as actual literature than even good fantasy beforehand.

Basically fantasy in the decade leading up to WoT was either hopelessly pretentious, outright comedy, or written entirely for the purpose of setting up a new scene to spray-paint on the side of someone's van. WoT was, at the time, something of a breath of fresh air in the genre, though once people realized they were allowed to do real stories with it again, it was rapidly dethroned as the new king of the genre.

And people are going to read the last one because, hell, they've gone through all the shiat books between 5 and where sanderson took over, and then like 4 more, so no reason to stop now.

... that help at all?

Jim_Callahan: HotWingAgenda: I was up way too late the other night reading through endless blogs and literary reviews trying to figure out what the big deal is with this series. I have a couple of friends that are obsessed with it, and this book in particular, but they've never been able to explain what they like about it, or even what it's about. Other than "fantasy" or "it's like Lord of the Rings but not".

And that troubles me, because I grew up reading fantasy, and these friends otherwise have the same taste in books as I do.

Primarily nostalgia. Remember, the first book came out in 1990 or so. If you remember what high fantasy written in the '70s/'80s was like, which I know you do because no fantasy reader reads exclusively new shiat, you'll maybe realize what a relief it was to finally get a book that took the material seriously, but wasn't particularly pretentious, whereas even bad sci-fi was more legitimate as actual literature than even good fantasy beforehand.

Basically fantasy in the decade leading up to WoT was either hopelessly pretentious, outright comedy, or written entirely for the purpose of setting up a new scene to spray-paint on the side of someone's van. WoT was, at the time, something of a breath of fresh air in the genre, though once people realized they were allowed to do real stories with it again, it was rapidly dethroned as the new king of the genre.

And people are going to read the last one because, hell, they've gone through all the shiat books between 5 and where sanderson took over, and then like 4 more, so no reason to stop now.

... that help at all?

What, you never heard of Zelazny? Cook? Kay?

DarkLancelot: DonkeyDixon: neongoats: Who is to say that "our" age is the age that follows the events in the books?

I don't think RJ was planning to permakill his literary universe by killing off the magic system. he wasn't dying for most of the series after all.

Agreed. Not to mention our times being referenced in Eye of the World. If those were from a prior turning of the Wheel through the First Age, you'd be looking at about 50,000 years give or take, and the memories of the memories of the myths of those legends would have been long forgotten.

I still think our age was not the First Age as people like to claim.  I think we are the one just before it as the portal stones are from there and they are surely magical.  Plus the ties to our time look ultra mythic, not as close as I think it should.

On another note, I read this (starting in 1990) and trudged up to Book 11, which was the first book I've just put down and said "I can't read this crap anymore, I think only one day passed in this 900 pages."  Since I've heard good things about Sanderson I'm rereading the series but I am not looking forward to a few of them.

Well, "Tamyrlin"/Merlin was supposedly the first magic user. I dunno if that's canon or not. I think we should assume the Second Age was really long though.

As for your second paragraph, I think you mean Book 10. That one was awful, and yes, took place pretty much in a single day with absolutely nothing of importance happening, except maybe some crap in Elayne's storyline--which is forgettable and went on way too long. 11 actually started to get good again, then he died, and 12 and 13 actually are good.

Pud: timujin: LockeOak: I stopped reading this series somewhere in book 6 or so when I realized I could open any of the previous books to any random point and I probably wouldn't know what was going on or who half the characters were.

I got past that by rereading all the previous books every time a new one came out.  Even with the release schedule Jordan had, I never got close to the next one before finishing.  I haven't read any past... Knife of Dreams? I think that was the last one at least.  That's where it started getting better.  It was dragging a bit there around book 9.  I remember there were something like three chapters devoted to a two hour ride on horseback.

I had just finished the last 2 books (trust me, they're worth the time)  of the series, and started the series over again waiting for the last one to come out. Up to The Lord of Chaos so far. Now I have to decide if I just want to skip ahead to the last book, or stay the course ....dammit

I started the series again last April and was working slowly through it since then, just finished book 13 at the end of December, so I am ready to start reading tomorrow when I get home from work!

had98c: Perrin would be a lot better if he'd hooked up with Berelain instead.

You might like Perrin, but he is such a useless character. If he was never in the series, what would we honestly have lost?

I mean, did we really need all that garbage about The Prophet (loved that Sanderson murdered him immediately when he got control of the series)? Or the storyline about him rescuing his wife? The only thing he really adds is the whole wolf thing, and we still don't know exactly how that is going to work in the last fight. That storyline has been stretched out forever and then some.

I like some of the characters and storylines in the series, but Robert Jordan really needed to take a page from GRRM and killed off a bunch of his characters about 10 books ago. Perrin should have been just about the first to go IMO.

Krazikarl: had98c: Perrin would be a lot better if he'd hooked up with Berelain instead.

You might like Perrin, but he is such a useless character. If he was never in the series, what would we honestly have lost?

I mean, did we really need all that garbage about The Prophet (loved that Sanderson murdered him immediately when he got control of the series)? Or the storyline about him rescuing his wife? The only thing he really adds is the whole wolf thing, and we still don't know exactly how that is going to work in the last fight. That storyline has been stretched out forever and then some.

I like some of the characters and storylines in the series, but Robert Jordan really needed to take a page from GRRM and killed off a bunch of his characters about 10 books ago. Perrin should have been just about the first to go IMO.

I think Perrin needed to survive because all three of the boys are supposed to be important in the end, but I agree his storyline could have been cut a lot. The Prophet could have been dealt with quickly, and the whole Faile getting captured thing shouldn't have happened at all. The Shaido should have been eliminated after Dumai's Wells. About the only potentially useful thing I can think of that came out of the kidnapping crap was Perrin forging ties with the Seanchan.

aerojockey: all of it to tell the story of a backcountry farm boy who finds out he's the Dragon Reborn, a hero out of prophecies, destined to defeat the Dark One - and probably die doing it.Really, that's what Wheet of Time is about?  How original.

Well, that's boiling down a 4,000,000 word series to 35... but yeah, that's the gist of the overall arc.

aerojockey: Really, that's what Wheet of Time is about?  How original.

I don't think that anybody has claimed that the Wheel of Time is very original.

It has the best world creating since Tolkein. But the plot is hardly original, and many of the characters get old after about the first book. You either like the world creating, or you don't enjoy The Wheel of Time one bit.

tillerman35: bhcompy:
Sanderson is a better writer than Jordan and has imagination on par with Jordan(Jordan's primary strength).

So he's a really GOOD fan fiction author. It still doesn't change the fact that he's ripping off a dead guy's life's work. There are a good authors on www.fanfiction.net too. Maybe he should contribute to the Harry Potter forum. If he's into the erotic stuff, he could even do a mash-up and have Hermione Granger do a four-way with Rand al'Thor, Perrin Aybara, and Matrim Cauthon.

Don't feed.

Jclark666 I think you're confusing the Wheel of Time with the Sword of Truth. It's pretty easy to do. Just remember: the Wheel of Time is full of Rand al'Thor and awkward polygamy, while the Sword of Truth is full of Ayn Rand and awkward BDSM.

I don't think so. I seem to recall way too many vivid recollections of daily, angry, bare bottomed spankings going on in the tower to believe he didn't have one hand in his trousers as he typed. Then there was the sex torture. And the awkward polygamy. And the sex that the other women could feel because they were joined and the less subtle D/s stuff. I'm glad Moiraine got out of it dead before she had to describe her palace sexscapades and the trench warfare type sex with Lan. By the end of it, I had absolutely no respect for any of the women, though only partly because they had no problem with any of the above. Even the bare bottomed spankings that were oh so cathartic. Especially the bare bottomed spankings. Oh look, another spanking.

DarkLancelot

There is a really good book "The World of Robert Jordan's the Wheel of Time" that goes into huge detail about the portal stones and the first age, it's technology and how that technology affects events throughout the series, like the actual Amyrlin seat, the White Tower, etc.

Jim_Callahan: ... that help at all?

That definitely helped the "why is this a big deal" question. I guess it's sort of like people who read the Dark Tower series. I imagine people would be equally mystified if I was all pysched about a new book by Christopher Stasheff or Keith Laumer.

Oh yeah, that's coming out.. thought it was later in the month.

My birthday is in two days, so I'll definitely wait and see if I get it then.

And so ends the worlds longest discourse on embroidery.

Sanderson has done wonders for the series so far. Can't wait to see how he help Jordan rap this series up.

Brandon Sanderson is a damned hero for the work he's done finishing this series.

Only a few hours until I get my copy, and I'm totally stoked. After that it's "Wait for Stormlight Two" mode.

erewhon: DonkeyDixon: blackartemis: /Save some time and skip all chapters about Perrin

So much THIS. Was my favorite character through Shadow Rising. The way he and Faile were mishandled after that has left me hoping he's the one main character who dies.

How dare you. Thor/Perrin is the BEST character in the series. Shut your whore mouth.

Maybe if he wasn't such an annoying PITA. He gets given something great and denies it for years, whines like a biatch, doesn't listen to others about it. Now he's running around in the wolf dream, I hope he gets maimed or killed.

I really liked Rand in the last book, now that he's finally sane, and almost Zen.

Just thinking back.. I'm not exactly sure when I started the series, but there was a Warlords game that had 8 warring factions, which I played on a Mac IIvx, and the white colored faction I referred to as the Whitecloaks.

Fark Griswald: A surprising amount of haters in here.

My 16 yo daughter is a heavy reader and she had this series on the list for a long time. She was absolutely pissed off after being halfway through the first book, said it didn't make sense and had no "attention span". LOL.

bhcompy: What, you never heard of Zelazny? Cook? Kay?

Zelazny's work was mostly in the form of parody, black comedy, and satire. Have you only heard of him over the internet, or did you miss where I mentioned the comedic? I ask because he's probably one of the greatest authors of all time, so if you're not familiar enough with him to know that he primarily wrote black comedy and satire then that makes me sad. I'll give a pass for not knowing that a lot of his best stuff was pre-1970, by the '70s he was already being anthologized.

(Honestly, people cribbing Zelazny is the _reason_ why so much of 70s/80s fantasy was comedy or van-painting, most of them just couldn't pull it off quite as well. He was the goddamned master of both before anyone else had realized you could do anything but epic fantasy and sword & sorcery)

I guess Black Company's borderline, it was heavy on deconstruction but I guess you could interpret it as not crossing the line into satire/parody if you were spinning really hard to make a point.

Kay was somewhere between pretentious and the cool van until he got a grip on himself in the late 1990s. Nothing necessarily wrong with that, in all fairness dude was an Oxford student whose first real job was literally cribbing Tolkein and adding more mythology references. That shiat, I assume, gets into your brain fast.

So... one half out of three. I'mma go with "nope, I'm still right. mostly."
//Whee, literature thread.

Jim_Callahan: I guess Black Company's borderline, it was heavy on deconstruction but I guess you could interpret it as not crossing the line into satire/parody if you were spinning really hard to make a point.

Kay was somewhere between pretentious and the cool van until he got a grip on himself in the late 1990s. Nothing necessarily wrong with that, in all fairness dude was an Oxford student whose first real job was literally cribbing Tolkein and adding more mythology references. That shiat, I assume, gets into your brain fast.

Black Company was ok. I also enjoyed the TunFaire detective stuff, but that was obviously comedy.

What did you think of the Fionavar stuff? It wasn't bad. Still somewhat derivative.

Zelazny, near perfect. I'd love to see someone pull off a really good cable series of Amber that was at least halfway true to the source material.

Jim_Callahan: I guess Black Company's borderline, it was heavy on deconstruction but I guess you could interpret it as not crossing the line into satire/parody if you were spinning really hard to make a point.

Having only just finished the first 3 black company books last night, I would argue against calling them satire or parody. You could tell that they author was tired of many of the other "high fantasy" tropes of the day, and the books are definitely a reaction.

When your story needs its own encyclopedia, perhaps it's a tad unnecessarily complex.

Oh, and...

I can't believe I forgot to order it. I'm away on business but will pick up at some point today.

I've been reading these for 20 years. That is terrifying and a bit sad.

Steven Erikson managed to write a better series in about half the time. If Sanderson hasn't saved WoT people would look at it like they do Sword of Truth except with braid tugging instead of rape.

Boojum2k: Fark Griswald: A surprising amount of haters in here.

Mostly just ones spouting troll cliches, who probably haven't read the books, and a couple who'd get lost if Dick and Jane added a third character. I like crunchy crunchy detail.

Not really no, I'd say a good chunk of people have the books assessed right. The guy wanted to write a world setting and not a story or develop characters. Tell me something awesome about book 10 (check the reviews on book 10 on amazon). Tell me the difference between the female characters that isn't their powers or appearance.

Jordan even admitted to basing all the female characters on his wife.

Guy was inventive, but needed an editor badly (his wife does not count), and possibly a partner that had a better way with words, and a little story telling flair.

I was a Mat fan, there was not enough Mat later on. I'll admit to stopping after book 10, so I don't know if he had more "screen time."

He's compared to Tolkein, and I admit I get annoyed at Tolkein's love for setting details, but Tolkein differentiated his main characters, moved plot better, and had a better way with words.

Sheseala: Boojum2k: Fark Griswald: A surprising amount of haters in here.

Mostly just ones spouting troll cliches, who probably haven't read the books, and a couple who'd get lost if Dick and Jane added a third character. I like crunchy crunchy detail.

Not really no, I'd say a good chunk of people have the books assessed right. The guy wanted to write a world setting and not a story or develop characters. Tell me something awesome about book 10 (check the reviews on book 10 on amazon). Tell me the difference between the female characters that isn't their powers or appearance.

Jordan even admitted to basing all the female characters on his wife.

Guy was inventive, but needed an editor badly (his wife does not count), and possibly a partner that had a better way with words, and a little story telling flair.

I was a Mat fan, there was not enough Mat later on. I'll admit to stopping after book 10, so I don't know if he had more "screen time."

He's compared to Tolkein, and I admit I get annoyed at Tolkein's love for setting details, but Tolkein differentiated his main characters, moved plot better, and had a better way with words.

If you read through book 10 you made it to the low point. Book 11 was a little better and book 12 (when sanderson took over) was actually good.

That doesn't excuse the series for how terrible books 8-11 but it is something.

It will be nice to complete Wheel of Time finally. Screw you haters, it will still be better than 90% or more of the crap on the shelves at my local 'book store'

I nearly got thrown out last time I went in there for pulling a get off my lawn temper tantrum.

They have at least 6 shelves devoted to non-book items such as board games, candles, empty journals, posters and whatever else, and only two shelves for science fiction and fantasy. On those two shelves I see, Assasin's Creed, Gears of War, Halo, the Dungeons and Dragons rulebooks and maybe 5 or six original works. How is this even possible? Did they actually work at having the worst farking bookstore on the planet or did the publishers mix up what got shipped and what got thrown out?

Two of the actual books they had were reprints of The Lord of the Rings (and the Hobbit) and the Song of Ice and Fire. So basically unless it's a farking video game or a farking movie or a farking HBO series they don't stock it. Hell I would have been happy if they had a reprint of Total Recall due to the recent movie but they didn't even have that!

I shouldn't be having rants like this at the age of 28 but there it is. fark I hate the state of 'bookstores' these days.

Quick question, if anyone's still reading the thread: I'm liking Sanderson's handling of these last WoT books. Seems he's been a busy boy, churning out novel after novel. So, any recommendations where to start with his non-WoT books?