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(NPR)   For 'Wheel Of Time' Fans, The Last Battle Is At Hand. Tai'shar Manetheran. Dovie'andi se tovya sagain   (npr.org) divider line 247
    More: Sappy, Manetheran, time series, Wheel of Time, blood diseases, advance copy  
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3981 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Jan 2013 at 6:48 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-07 08:10:14 PM

valar_morghulis: Couldn't get past book 7. The female characters were whining annoying harpies, the males were whining annoying duds.


But enough about the Rapeublicans

/rimshot
 
2013-01-07 08:10:41 PM
LOL books.
 
Pud [TotalFark]
2013-01-07 08:12:50 PM

timujin: LockeOak: I stopped reading this series somewhere in book 6 or so when I realized I could open any of the previous books to any random point and I probably wouldn't know what was going on or who half the characters were.

I got past that by rereading all the previous books every time a new one came out.  Even with the release schedule Jordan had, I never got close to the next one before finishing.  I haven't read any past... Knife of Dreams? I think that was the last one at least.  That's where it started getting better.  It was dragging a bit there around book 9.  I remember there were something like three chapters devoted to a two hour ride on horseback.


I had just finished the last 2 books (trust me, they're worth the time)  of the series, and started the series over again waiting for the last one to come out. Up to The Lord of Chaos so far. Now I have to decide if I just want to skip ahead to the last book, or stay the course ....dammit
 
2013-01-07 08:12:52 PM

had98c: I can't skip Tanchico cause Moghedien is my favorite character. I'm probably the only person that has her as a favorite but there it is.


I can't skip it because I always wind up singing "Huntin' the Black Ajah in Tanchico Bay" to that Montego Bay tune.
 
2013-01-07 08:14:10 PM

erewhon: DonkeyDixon:

Not to mention, Aviendha's vision of the future referenced her kids being able to channel from early childhood instead of just around puberty.

Well, you know when she unraveled the gateway near the farm everyone complained about the Power not working right for the rest of the novel.

Since the Bore is a really high powered weave, and it's *sort* of a gateway, and there's no trace of it on the next spin, I'm guessing it's also the way he'll explain a distinct lack of magic during our age.


Who is to say that "our" age is the age that follows the events in the books?

I don't think RJ was planning to permakill his literary universe by killing off the magic system. he wasn't dying for most of the series after all.

But we're he to want to, I think a more likely route would be making the whole world a stedding, or Far Madding style artificial stedding. And several ages later, the rediscovery of the power would be mankind finding and breaking the ter'angreal, or whatever and rediscovering the power.
 
2013-01-07 08:14:25 PM

Pud: timujin: LockeOak: I stopped reading this series somewhere in book 6 or so when I realized I could open any of the previous books to any random point and I probably wouldn't know what was going on or who half the characters were.

I got past that by rereading all the previous books every time a new one came out.  Even with the release schedule Jordan had, I never got close to the next one before finishing.  I haven't read any past... Knife of Dreams? I think that was the last one at least.  That's where it started getting better.  It was dragging a bit there around book 9.  I remember there were something like three chapters devoted to a two hour ride on horseback.

I had just finished the last 2 books (trust me, they're worth the time)  of the series, and started the series over again waiting for the last one to come out. Up to The Lord of Chaos so far. Now I have to decide if I just want to skip ahead to the last book, or stay the course ....dammit


Finish Lord of Chaos, then skip to AMoL. Lord of Chaos is always worth another read.
 
2013-01-07 08:18:08 PM

had98c: Some of the stuff in these books really point to the series being a kinky sexual fantasy outlet for RJ. Examples include women controlling other women via a collar and chain, overt lesbianism in school (pillow friends in the Tower, especially with Novices/Apprentices), an arch enemy that kills people by overloading them with feelings of sexual pleasure, a main character that openly declares his love for three women at the same time AND THEY'RE ALL COOL WITH IT.

Besides all that nonsense, it's a pretty good story overall.


Then I recommend you never read the Sword of Truth books by Terry Goodkind.
 
2013-01-07 08:18:36 PM

Pud: timujin: LockeOak: I stopped reading this series somewhere in book 6 or so when I realized I could open any of the previous books to any random point and I probably wouldn't know what was going on or who half the characters were.

I got past that by rereading all the previous books every time a new one came out. Even with the release schedule Jordan had, I never got close to the next one before finishing. I haven't read any past... Knife of Dreams? I think that was the last one at least. That's where it started getting better. It was dragging a bit there around book 9. I remember there were something like three chapters devoted to a two hour ride on horseback.

I had just finished the last 2 books (trust me, they're worth the time) of the series, and started the series over again waiting for the last one to come out. Up to The Lord of Chaos so far. Now I have to decide if I just want to skip ahead to the last book, or stay the course ....dammit


Yeah, my plan has been to wait until it was officially finished, then do one more full reading.  Guess it's time to start, I just have to dig out my books.  I moved a while back and haven't put my shelves up, so they're all in boxes. Unloading them is almost as daunting a task as reading the series.
 
2013-01-07 08:21:20 PM

Kome: Started reading the series in 9th grade, about 13 years ago. Since then, I read the entire series (at least, what's available) about once a year. On the whole it's damn good, even if there are some serious bad spots that are like a chore to get through.


The entire 10th book, for instance.
 
2013-01-07 08:23:23 PM

NobleHam: erewhon: DonkeyDixon:

Not to mention, Aviendha's vision of the future referenced her kids being able to channel from early childhood instead of just around puberty.

Well, you know when she unraveled the gateway near the farm everyone complained about the Power not working right for the rest of the novel.

Since the Bore is a really high powered weave, and it's *sort* of a gateway, and there's no trace of it on the next spin, I'm guessing it's also the way he'll explain a distinct lack of magic during our age.

The power not working right was because of the use of the Bowl, not Aviendha unraveling her gateway, and the Bore's not a weave, it's the lack of weaves, it's a hole in the pattern. Undoing it's going to require weaving over it to restore the pattern, or someone really powerfully balefiring Lanfear.


No, nein, incorrect. The power doesn't work right there because she failed to unravel the weave for the gateway correctly. They even discuss that you can have nothing happen, an explosion, or burn out everyone close by. It's why they talk about the Aiel Wise Ones practicing on puffs of air.

Also, if you read fast enough, you can just visualize the scene better with callbacks to common turns of phrases he uses for describing the actions of people involved. At least, that's how it works for me. So the repetition of braid tugging and what not never really bothered me.
 
2013-01-07 08:23:43 PM
People read past book 5? Halfway through number six, and I was reading a paragraph about some woman, and it occurred to me that I had no idea who this was. I just put the book down and never looked back. I have the feeling that Game of Thrones will be the same way.
 
2013-01-07 08:24:13 PM
Oh, also, it was Elayne that failed to unravel the gateway correctly, when they left the farm after using the Bowl of Winds.
 
2013-01-07 08:27:35 PM

Boojum2k: Fark Griswald: A surprising amount of haters in here.

Mostly just ones spouting troll cliches, who probably haven't read the books, and a couple who'd get lost if Dick and Jane added a third character. I like crunchy crunchy detail.


I know but I guess I didn't think it was worth this amount of trolling. I like the series and I'm going to pick up and read AMOL tomorrow. To each there own I suppose.
 
2013-01-07 08:30:23 PM

Zafler: NobleHam: erewhon: DonkeyDixon:

Not to mention, Aviendha's vision of the future referenced her kids being able to channel from early childhood instead of just around puberty.

Well, you know when she unraveled the gateway near the farm everyone complained about the Power not working right for the rest of the novel.

Since the Bore is a really high powered weave, and it's *sort* of a gateway, and there's no trace of it on the next spin, I'm guessing it's also the way he'll explain a distinct lack of magic during our age.

The power not working right was because of the use of the Bowl, not Aviendha unraveling her gateway, and the Bore's not a weave, it's the lack of weaves, it's a hole in the pattern. Undoing it's going to require weaving over it to restore the pattern, or someone really powerfully balefiring Lanfear.

No, nein, incorrect. The power doesn't work right there because she failed to unravel the weave for the gateway correctly. They even discuss that you can have nothing happen, an explosion, or burn out everyone close by. It's why they talk about the Aiel Wise Ones practicing on puffs of air.

Also, if you read fast enough, you can just visualize the scene better with callbacks to common turns of phrases he uses for describing the actions of people involved. At least, that's how it works for me. So the repetition of braid tugging and what not never really bothered me.


Except that Robert Jordan confirmed it was the Bowl, not the unraveling. (New Window)
 
2013-01-07 08:31:58 PM

LockeOak: I stopped reading this series somewhere in book 6 or so when I realized I could open any of the previous books to any random point and I probably wouldn't know what was going on or who half the characters were.


Strange. I don't remember posting this, but I think I posted it.
 
2013-01-07 08:32:27 PM
People read past book 5? Halfway through number six, and I was reading a paragraph about some woman, and it occurred to me that I had no idea who this was. I just put the book down and never looked back. I have the feeling that Game of Thrones will be the same way.

Pretty much. Try Guy Gavriel Kay, who seems to know how to finish a fantasy story in a book or two.
 
2013-01-07 08:37:57 PM

NobleHam:
The power not working right was because of the use of the Bowl, not Aviendha unraveling her gateway, and the Bore's not a weave, it's the lack of weaves, it's a hole in the pattern. Undoing it's going to require weaving over it to restore the pattern, or someone really powerfully balefiring Lanfear.


No, Lanfear and Unnamed Throwaway Character wove it, as seen during the Exposition Machine sequence in book three, IIRC. Nice touch, that.

Although you're right in that they didn't say exactly HOW it was done, but the implication was that it was a weave.
 
2013-01-07 08:39:35 PM
Oh, and the unraveling and the use of the Bowl were back-to-back, don't have the books here, but I dimly recall that the funkiness of the Power was being hinted at after the nuclear blast when the gate collapsed, before the Bowl.
 
2013-01-07 08:41:34 PM

NobleHam: Except that Robert Jordan confirmed it was the Bowl, not the unraveling. (New Window)


I stand corrected and completely bemused, since there was no evidence of it being the bowls usage in the novel. The only thing that could possibly give evidence of that being the case was one of the Forsaken being shocked they'd try it on a global basis. Also, why didn't he include places along those spokes that were having wonkiness? Even the battle between Rand and the Seanchan were in the vicinity of where the bowl was used.
 
2013-01-07 08:42:58 PM

erewhon: Oh, and the unraveling and the use of the Bowl were back-to-back, don't have the books here, but I dimly recall that the funkiness of the Power was being hinted at after the nuclear blast when the gate collapsed, before the Bowl.


You've got the order reversed. The funkiness appeared after the Bowl was used, before the failed unraveling.

erewhon: NobleHam:
The power not working right was because of the use of the Bowl, not Aviendha unraveling her gateway, and the Bore's not a weave, it's the lack of weaves, it's a hole in the pattern. Undoing it's going to require weaving over it to restore the pattern, or someone really powerfully balefiring Lanfear.

No, Lanfear and Unnamed Throwaway Character wove it, as seen during the Exposition Machine sequence in book three, IIRC. Nice touch, that.

Although you're right in that they didn't say exactly HOW it was done, but the implication was that it was a weave.


I'm sure a weave was used to create it, thus how balefiring Lanfear into oblivion might undo it, but the bore itself isn't a weave, it's a holed bored in the pattern. If you drill a hole in a wall, the drill bit isn't part of the hole.
 
2013-01-07 08:45:31 PM

Zafler: NobleHam: Except that Robert Jordan confirmed it was the Bowl, not the unraveling. (New Window)

I stand corrected and completely bemused, since there was no evidence of it being the bowls usage in the novel. The only thing that could possibly give evidence of that being the case was one of the Forsaken being shocked they'd try it on a global basis. Also, why didn't he include places along those spokes that were having wonkiness? Even the battle between Rand and the Seanchan were in the vicinity of where the bowl was used.


There was power wonkiness in the Rand/Seanchan battle. Several of the Asha'man complained that their weaves weren't working properly. And I thought Perrin's channelers also complained about the weirdness, and we know they were on one of the spokes. I don't recall ever thinking it was anything other than the Bowl that caused it, but apparently there was enough confusion for RJ to clarify.
 
2013-01-07 08:47:37 PM

NobleHam:

You've got the order reversed. The funkiness appeared after the Bowl was used, before the failed unraveling.


Quite possible, I haven't read it for maybe 10 years.



I'm sure a weave was used to create it, thus how balefiring Lanfear into oblivion might undo it, but the bore itself isn't a weave, it's a holed bored in the pattern. If you drill a hole in a wall, the drill bit isn't part of the hole.


I'm thinking there was a two-parter, a drilled hole and a liner weave that holds it open. There was, IIRC, again from many ages ago when I read the thing and its bits and pieces of out-of-novel content, some implication that LTT and company had sealed the bore by hooking the Seals onto the weave holding the Bore open, not being able to close it without a female to fix the thing properly.
 
2013-01-07 08:52:40 PM
Not that the series is bad or anything, I rather enjoyed reading most of it (aside from the ridiculous, almost cartoonish "how not to write" pacing problems from books 6 to 9 or so), but still, this must be commented on:

think Game of Thrones but more so: more characters, more magic, more tiny little world-building details, more everything.

Ha, ha, no. Significantly less of all those things with the exception of magic. And the magic really didn't get ramped up until book 4 or 5 of Wheel of Time, which is the same point at which it's getting ramped up in Game of Thrones, so that's not really the case either.

kertus: LockeOak: I stopped reading this series somewhere in book 6 or so when I realized I could open any of the previous books to any random point and I probably wouldn't know what was going on or who half the characters were.

Strange. I don't remember posting this, but I think I posted it.


It was a repeat post, so the mods balefired it (or converted its mass to the tachyonic state, if you're more an Alastair Reynolds fan).
 
2013-01-07 08:52:47 PM

NobleHam: There was power wonkiness in the Rand/Seanchan battle. Several of the Asha'man complained that their weaves weren't working properly. And I thought Perrin's channelers also complained about the weirdness, and we know they were on one of the spokes. I don't recall ever thinking it was anything other than the Bowl that caused it, but apparently there was enough confusion for RJ to clarify.


That battle took place close enough to Ebou Dar to be in range of the wonkiness, since the farm was outside Ebou Dar in the direction of the battle. Hence why they were wondering why there was problems here and not back in the mountains.

Perrin's Wise Ones just saw the initial weaving passing nearby, and were afraid because of the scope and, as I recall, it twisting around something unseen. No mention of wonkiness in the power itself for them.
 
2013-01-07 09:04:22 PM

neongoats: Who is to say that "our" age is the age that follows the events in the books?

I don't think RJ was planning to permakill his literary universe by killing off the magic system. he wasn't dying for most of the series after all.


Agreed. Not to mention our times being referenced in Eye of the World. If those were from a prior turning of the Wheel through the First Age, you'd be looking at about 50,000 years give or take, and the memories of the memories of the myths of those legends would have been long forgotten.
 
2013-01-07 09:05:03 PM
I don't know what I will do, I will most likely have to pirate it as I live in Thailand and buy the paperback when it comes out and have it sent to family in the US, as I have the rest in paperback form. But it's been so long I almost want to reread the rest of the books first...

/Save some time and skip all chapters about Perrin
 
2013-01-07 09:09:06 PM

blackartemis: /Save some time and skip all chapters about Perrin


So much THIS. Was my favorite character through Shadow Rising. The way he and Faile were mishandled after that has left me hoping he's the one main character who dies.
 
2013-01-07 09:20:06 PM

DonkeyDixon: blackartemis: /Save some time and skip all chapters about Perrin

So much THIS. Was my favorite character through Shadow Rising. The way he and Faile were mishandled after that has left me hoping he's the one main character who dies.


How dare you. Thor/Perrin is the BEST character in the series. Shut your whore mouth.
 
2013-01-07 09:20:33 PM
So no ebook version until April? WTF. It's money-grab shiat like this that makes otherwise decent guys like me figure out alternatives.

I'll effing pay what ever the price is but I don't want a hard cover copy, I want an ebook. No reason they can't release both at the same time just like every other damn publisher now days.
 
2013-01-07 09:25:17 PM

erewhon: DonkeyDixon: blackartemis: /Save some time and skip all chapters about Perrin

So much THIS. Was my favorite character through Shadow Rising. The way he and Faile were mishandled after that has left me hoping he's the one main character who dies.

How dare you. Thor/Perrin is the BEST character in the series. Shut your whore mouth.


Perrin would be a lot better if he'd hooked up with Berelain instead.
 
2013-01-07 09:28:32 PM
After reading the last two books I really wish Robert Jordan would have collaborated with someone else on this series, or at least have had an editor that was not his wife.
 
2013-01-07 09:29:06 PM

had98c:

Perrin would be a lot better if he'd hooked up with Berelain instead.


Or both - the prophecy had him taming both birds, dinnit?

He's a big boy, ought to be able to handle them both in a threesome...yeah...sorry, what were we talking about?
 
2013-01-07 09:35:40 PM

r1niceboy: People read past book 5? Halfway through number six, and I was reading a paragraph about some woman, and it occurred to me that I had no idea who this was. I just put the book down and never looked back. I have the feeling that Game of Thrones will be the same way.


I felt the same about the Wheel of Time, which I put down maybe 10 years ago. I can remember most of the plot and characters of Game of Thrones despite not having reading the books in the past 5 years or seeing the TV show. Even after reading this thread my memories of the Wheel of Time are just a mash of homogenous names, glacial plotting, minimal character development and battles that are half a step above Dragonball Z.
 
2013-01-07 09:39:31 PM

erewhon: had98c:

Perrin would be a lot better if he'd hooked up with Berelain instead.

Or both - the prophecy had him taming both birds, dinnit?

He's a big boy, ought to be able to handle them both in a threesome...yeah...sorry, what were we talking about?


Why should Rand have all the luck? Mat might want to be careful about suggesting it to his wife though.
 
2013-01-07 09:43:51 PM

erewhon: DonkeyDixon: blackartemis: /Save some time and skip all chapters about Perrin

So much THIS. Was my favorite character through Shadow Rising. The way he and Faile were mishandled after that has left me hoping he's the one main character who dies.

How dare you. Thor/Perrin is the BEST character in the series. Shut your whore mouth.


Lanfear is best character.
 
2013-01-07 09:45:20 PM

there their theyre: erewhon: DonkeyDixon: blackartemis: /Save some time and skip all chapters about Perrin

So much THIS. Was my favorite character through Shadow Rising. The way he and Faile were mishandled after that has left me hoping he's the one main character who dies.

How dare you. Thor/Perrin is the BEST character in the series. Shut your whore mouth.

Lanfear is best character.


Thom.
 
2013-01-07 09:45:20 PM

Boojum2k:
Why should Rand have all the luck? Mat might want to be careful about suggesting it to his wife though.


Eh, maybe at the end they get together, have one of those team parties that start off halfway normal and morph into the sort of thing no one can mention later. Tough to believe that you've got all these magic users, and there's little to no sex magic going on. Seriously - the first thing we use technology for is porn, you can't tell me you can alter reality and that's not the first use of it.

The culture seems a bit prudish, though.
 
2013-01-07 09:47:11 PM

Boojum2k: there their theyre: erewhon: DonkeyDixon: blackartemis: /Save some time and skip all chapters about Perrin

So much THIS. Was my favorite character through Shadow Rising. The way he and Faile were mishandled after that has left me hoping he's the one main character who dies.

How dare you. Thor/Perrin is the BEST character in the series. Shut your whore mouth.

Lanfear is best character.

Thom.


I had sort of hoped Thom would out himself as being able to weave at some point, but I guess not. Still holding out on the horse being some sort of magic user, Bella, wasn't it?
 
2013-01-07 09:50:58 PM
I switched to audio books a while back and never looked back. Got mine preordered and ready from audible.com cheaper than a hardcover book.

Been with this series since the 3rd book around 7th grade.

Crossroads of Twilight (book 10) just about stopped me from wanting to finish it though. Anyone just starting with the series should just skip that entire book... you wont miss anything.

oh, and my only wish is that Perrin dies horribly... even though it seems he is done being a whiny little biatch.
 
2013-01-07 09:55:29 PM

erewhon: Boojum2k:
Why should Rand have all the luck? Mat might want to be careful about suggesting it to his wife though.

Eh, maybe at the end they get together, have one of those team parties that start off halfway normal and morph into the sort of thing no one can mention later. Tough to believe that you've got all these magic users, and there's little to no sex magic going on. Seriously - the first thing we use technology for is porn, you can't tell me you can alter reality and that's not the first use of it.

The culture seems a bit prudish, though.


Semihirage uses sex magic as a torture device, so it exists, just very much on the wrong side.
Also the terangreal dildo that turned up a while back.
No telling what various Aes Sedai have come up with either.
 
2013-01-07 10:03:14 PM
15 years too late. Meanwhile, Erikson put out a more compelling series with 10 books in about 11 years.

/take note GRRM
 
2013-01-07 10:05:31 PM

raidersofthelostfark: People read past book 5? Halfway through number six, and I was reading a paragraph about some woman, and it occurred to me that I had no idea who this was. I just put the book down and never looked back. I have the feeling that Game of Thrones will be the same way.

Pretty much. Try Guy Gavriel Kay, who seems to know how to finish a fantasy story in a book or two.


Kay does that, but I find that he leaves too much on the table by not expanding. The Lions of Al-Rassan may be the best standalone fantasy novel written, but I wish there was more than that.
 
2013-01-07 10:06:03 PM

NobleHam: erewhon: Oh, and the unraveling and the use of the Bowl were back-to-back, don't have the books here, but I dimly recall that the funkiness of the Power was being hinted at after the nuclear blast when the gate collapsed, before the Bowl.

You've got the order reversed. The funkiness appeared after the Bowl was used, before the failed unraveling.

erewhon: NobleHam:
The power not working right was because of the use of the Bowl, not Aviendha unraveling her gateway, and the Bore's not a weave, it's the lack of weaves, it's a hole in the pattern. Undoing it's going to require weaving over it to restore the pattern, or someone really powerfully balefiring Lanfear.

No, Lanfear and Unnamed Throwaway Character wove it, as seen during the Exposition Machine sequence in book three, IIRC. Nice touch, that.

Although you're right in that they didn't say exactly HOW it was done, but the implication was that it was a weave.

I'm sure a weave was used to create it, thus how balefiring Lanfear into oblivion might undo it, but the bore itself isn't a weave, it's a holed bored in the pattern. If you drill a hole in a wall, the drill bit isn't part of the hole.


It would undo it, but balefiring Lanfear all the way back to when she drilled the bore, if you could even make balefire strong enough, would likely unravel the pattern. Everything post bore-drilling would be undone, so the whole war that followed, collapse, etc. Pretty sure all of existence would unravel if you tried it, which is why none one did it during the War.
 
2013-01-07 10:06:45 PM

Boojum2k:
Also the terangreal dildo that turned up a while back.
No telling what various Aes Sedai have come up with either.


Sounds like a band. "Ter'angreal Dildo". Or a project name.

Gentlemen, you're hear to be read onto a very secure project - it's called...Ter'angreal Dildo.
 
2013-01-07 10:08:00 PM

erewhon: Boojum2k:
Also the terangreal dildo that turned up a while back.
No telling what various Aes Sedai have come up with either.

Sounds like a band. "Ter'angreal Dildo". Or a project name.

Gentlemen, you're hear to be read onto a very secure project - it's called...Ter'angreal Dildo.


Geez, you can tell I'm tired. /hear/here
 
2013-01-07 10:08:36 PM

bhcompy: 15 years too late. Meanwhile, Erikson put out a more compelling series with 10 books in about 11 years.

/take note GRRM


The Malazan books do kick serious ass.
 
2013-01-07 10:12:07 PM

entropic_existence: bhcompy: 15 years too late. Meanwhile, Erikson put out a more compelling series with 10 books in about 11 years.

/take note GRRM

The Malazan books do kick serious ass.


It's between that and Amber as to which is my favorite series, though the Malazan books has the best character dialogue/interaction I've read
 
2013-01-07 10:12:31 PM

erewhon: Boojum2k:
Also the terangreal dildo that turned up a while back.
No telling what various Aes Sedai have come up with either.

Sounds like a band. "Ter'angreal Dildo". Or a project name.

Gentlemen, you're hear to be read onto a very secure project - it's called...Ter'angreal Dildo.


As soon as you mentioned that, I thought of it as a song, to the turn of "Detachable Penis". . .
 
2013-01-07 10:15:20 PM
Tune. Autocorrect sucks.
 
2013-01-07 10:18:08 PM
Damnit, I want to get this book so badly but I'm currently reading The Night Angel Trilogy, and only on book one. I know if I do get it, it will be sitting there, saying 'Read me', 'Put down that trilogy' and I'll be all 'No, must resist temptation. Must finish this series first'.
 
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