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(CNN)   David Frum says marijuana should remain illegal because mortgages these days are too complicated. Wait, what?   (cnn.com) divider line 206
    More: Stupid, David Frum, For a New Novel, social rule, The Daily Beast, student debt, drug control, marijuana pipe  
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3763 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Jan 2013 at 8:45 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-07 05:11:22 PM
so basically 'pot is bad and you should feel bad 'cause pot makes you feel good, which is bad'.  same old stuff as always.
 
2013-01-07 05:17:55 PM
One of them was admitted to Emory, a prestigious school with a full-ticket price of $50,000, but one that grants very generous financial aid -- if the student can figure out how to make the financial aid work for her.

WTH? I graduated from there a decade ago and the price was a little more than half that. Universities have lost their gotdamn minds.
 
2013-01-07 05:18:43 PM
I have no intention of trying the stuff, but alcohol use can cause many of the same issues - so why isn't anyone trying to ban that (again)?
 
2013-01-07 05:19:18 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: I have no intention of trying the stuff, but alcohol use can cause many of the same issues - so why isn't anyone trying to ban that (again)?


and by "trying that stuff", I meant weed.
 
2013-01-07 05:20:40 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Grand_Moff_Joseph: I have no intention of trying the stuff, but alcohol use can cause many of the same issues - so why isn't anyone trying to ban that (again)?

and by "trying that stuff", I meant weed.


And by weed, you mean longbottom leaf?
 
2013-01-07 05:26:41 PM
I was gonna pay my mortgage, but then I got high.

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-01-07 05:27:04 PM
Every so often NPR lets David Frum do an editorial in one of those "equal time" type slots.  It pretty much proves why "equal time for all opinions" is crap.
 
2013-01-07 05:31:18 PM

Weaver95: so basically 'pot is bad and you should feel bad 'cause pot makes you feel good, which is bad'.  same old stuff as always.


And how many of those things could be prevented/lessened by not making users (of which I am not one) hide their usage?

Nadie_AZ: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Grand_Moff_Joseph: I have no intention of trying the stuff, but alcohol use can cause many of the same issues - so why isn't anyone trying to ban that (again)?

and by "trying that stuff", I meant weed.

And by weed, you mean longbottom leaf?


Old Toby is far superior in both taste and smoke rings
 
2013-01-07 05:37:56 PM
Is he the same David Frum who thought having George W, Bush as President for 8 years was a good idea too?
 
2013-01-07 05:45:10 PM
Wow. That article was one of the weakest I've seen in favor of keeping marijuana illegal (read: justifying the violation of liberty and imprisoning millions of Americans). Was Frum high when he wrote that?

Such a rule might say: "You shouldn't use marijuana until you are over 25, or after your brain has ceased to develop, whichever comes first.

Fine. If that's the logic you want to use, legalize marijuana for everyone age 25 and older. Problem solved.

Yet as a parent of three, two exiting adolescence and one entering, I've found that the argument that makes the biggest impression is: "Marijuana is illegal. Stay away." I think many other parents have found the same thing.

There are a million GOOD reasons to convince your kids not to use marijuana or drugs in general outside their legality that your kids will be receptive to so long as you take the time to explain it to them in a way they can understand. Just because you're a shiatty parent doesn't mean you should force your simplistic, Draconian style on the rest of us, David.


We're not going to uninvent the no-money-down loan. Universities that receive applications from all over the planet cannot finance themselves like an old-fashioned state land-grant college. But we need to recognize that modern life is becoming steadily more dangerous for people prone to make bad choices. At a time when they need more help than ever to climb the ladder, marijuana legalization kicks them back down the ladder.

So life is getting more complex (when has it not?). Marijuana clouds a person's judgment (yeah, pun intended), and chronic use has negative long-term health effects (yes, it does - so do Red Bull, cigarettes, oxycontin, and a million other legal items; if unhealthy long-term effects is your metric, how do you draw the line?).

It's the tired, same-old "FOR THE CHILDREN" argument that politicians have always trotted out to foist some rights-violating legislation upon society. I've had it with these assholes who don't understand black market economics, unintended consequences, or natural rights.

/fark the children
 
2013-01-07 05:48:50 PM
*scans headline*

*sigh* Sounds like someone really needs a blunt.
 
2013-01-07 05:49:32 PM

Hydra: It's the tired, same-old "FOR THE CHILDREN" argument that politicians have always trotted out to foist some rights-violating legislation upon society. I've had it with these assholes who don't understand black market economics, unintended consequences, or natural rights.


Interestingly enough, it was the Dems that used to pull it out all the time. The Repubs would say 'personal responsibility' and 'let parents do their jobs' and so on. That was in the 90s.
 
2013-01-07 05:59:46 PM
Yet as a parent of three, two exiting adolescence and one entering, I've found that the argument that makes the biggest impression is: "Marijuana is illegal. Stay away." I think many other parents have found the same thing.

Sure. And then they smoke it and DON'T die or go crazy and start wondering what else they've been lied to about.
 
2013-01-07 06:05:02 PM
"Angelica reported that her mother made $35,000 a year and paid about half of that in rent. With her housing costs so high, Emory assumed the family had extra money and assigned ... an income of $51,000. ... (Angelica) discovered what had happened only recently."
Unable to cope with the school's e-mail system or to decrypt its rules for imputing family income, Angelica finally dropped out of Emory, burdened by $61,000 in student debt.


some people are stupid, therefore pot should be illegal.

WTF
this article is so full of false analogies? random crap??
so keep pot illegal

WTF
 
2013-01-07 06:06:09 PM
Frum has been a (relatively) reasonable conservative voice during the Obama years. But he's walking a very weird line here. We should not lock people up or slam them with an arrest record (though the group's website is clearly not in support of legalization) but people should still not use it? Okay.

His bad-for-you examples are not convincing. And if he was really concerned for children he would support legalization. Drug dealers don't card. It's easier for many teens to get marijuana rather than cigarettes or tobacco for that very reason.

The legalization train has left the station and is picking up speed, and new groups like this springing up are hoping to apply the brakes. Good luck with that.
 
2013-01-07 06:07:02 PM

Nadie_AZ: Interestingly enough, it was the Dems that used to pull it out all the time. The Repubs would say 'personal responsibility' and 'let parents do their jobs' and so on. That was in the 90s.


And I'm sure it was the dry coalition of Repubs and Dems in the 19teens that were pushing for Prohibition, too.

/scare tactics are bipartisan
//the more things change, the more they stay the same
 
2013-01-07 06:07:52 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Grand_Moff_Joseph: I have no intention of trying the stuff, but alcohol use can cause many of the same issues - so why isn't anyone trying to ban that (again)?

and by "trying that stuff", I meant weed.


I have no intention of trying Christianity, why dont we ban it?
I have no intention of trying olives, we dont we ban it?
Esp gin, I HATE GIN, why dont we ban it??

THESE people are insane. They want to continue fighting something which was lost decades ago.
This shiat scares the shiat out of me.

/at least they finally band smoke in bars and restaurants so I dont have to smell like an ashtray!!
 
2013-01-07 06:08:11 PM
Actually, Frum makes a pretty good argument for legalization here.  He advocates there being simple rules around pot.  Fortunately, we've already got these rules in our society for both tobacco and alcohol.

1.  Pot isn't for kids. It's not available to you legally until you are of legal age.
2.  Giving pot to kids is a crime, just like it is with booze.  Casually exposing it to them follows the same rules as any second hand smoke.
3.  Intoxicants and driving don't mix.  Don't smoke and drive.
4.  It can be consumed openly only where permitted, such as outdoor smoking areas of licensed establishments, in uncontrolled areas where drinking is usually overlooked (camping, tailgating) or in private.

Frum's argument about rules complexity is an interesting one.  I agree with him- simpler rules are generally better, and rules complexity favours complex thinkers, or people with help.  I'm lucky to be one of the latter people, but I cringe for people not quite designed to think their way through the hoops.  Apple has it right- simpler is better.  One button is better than two.  Systems, including rules, need to be simple and easy to communicate.  Any rule should be tweetable.  Hell, memeable.  This is the one part of deregulation where I absolutely agree with people on the right.
 
2013-01-07 06:08:21 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Frum has been a (relatively) reasonable conservative voice during the Obama years. But he's walking a very weird line here. We should not lock people up or slam them with an arrest record (though the group's website is clearly not in support of legalization) but people should still not use it? Okay.

His bad-for-you examples are not convincing. And if he was really concerned for children he would support legalization. Drug dealers don't card. It's easier for many teens to get marijuana rather than cigarettes or tobacco for that very reason.

The legalization train has left the station and is picking up speed, and new groups like this springing up are hoping to apply the brakes. Good luck with that.


I don't agree with him at all, but there are many societies that decriminalize marijuana but don't really legalize it either.
 
2013-01-07 06:10:25 PM

namatad: "Angelica reported that her mother made $35,000 a year and paid about half of that in rent. With her housing costs so high, Emory assumed the family had extra money and assigned ... an income of $51,000. ... (Angelica) discovered what had happened only recently."
Unable to cope with the school's e-mail system or to decrypt its rules for imputing family income, Angelica finally dropped out of Emory, burdened by $61,000 in student debt.


One chick can't figure out the FAFSA. Shut down everything.
 
2013-01-07 06:11:19 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: His bad-for-you examples are not convincing. And if he was really concerned for children he would support legalization. Drug dealers don't card. It's easier for many teens to get marijuana rather than cigarettes or tobacco for that very reason.


mhmm

and
since when do we want the government raising our crotch spawn??
LEGALIZE all drugs include pharmacy. make it all OTC.
(fine, antibiotics and antivirals should still be limited access)

Spend the time and money in education and getting DUIs and disorderly peep off of the streets.
Instead of locking up that guy who had 20 DUIs we lock up someone for weed???
sigh

next up: legalizing prostitution
 
2013-01-07 06:12:56 PM
The trouble was that students who most need aid are often precisely those who have nobody around them who has ever successfully navigated a complicated bureaucratic institution like a university financial aid office.

"Though Emory sent weekly e-mails -- 17 of them, along with an invitation to a program for minority students -- they went to a school account she had not learned to check," DeParle wrote


Jesus Tittyfarking Christ.

Dear Consumerist,

I don't know how to check my email, so I dropped out of college. Who should I sue?
 
2013-01-07 06:14:52 PM

coco ebert: I don't agree with him at all, but there are many societies that decriminalize marijuana but don't really legalize it either.


I'm guessing that's his group's stance, decriminalization. Which is not a bad goal, relative to how we currently create hundreds of thousands of criminals. But for the rest of us it's an acceptable step towards legalization.
 
2013-01-07 06:15:05 PM

unyon: Frum's argument about rules complexity is an interesting one.  I agree with him- simpler rules are generally better, and rules complexity favours complex thinkers, or people with help.  I'm lucky to be one of the latter people, but I cringe for people not quite designed to think their way through the hoops.  Apple has it right- simpler is better.  One button is better than two.  Systems, including rules, need to be simple and easy to communicate.  Any rule should be tweetable.  Hell, memeable.  This is the one part of deregulation where I absolutely agree with people on the right.


except that we cant simplify for the lowest tard. not for everything.
otherwise we all end up with padded cells ...
scissors? you can lose an eye
that car can do 100 mph? limit it to 65
that cat has toxoplasmosis? get rid of all cats
that food is fatty? salads for everyone
that food is salty? bland for everyone
lawn darts? gone
magnets? gone

shudder
this shiat scares the crap out of me, esp since we watch them try to do more and more of this everyday
 
2013-01-07 06:16:30 PM

what_now: The trouble was that students who most need aid are often precisely those who have nobody around them who has ever successfully navigated a complicated bureaucratic institution like a university financial aid office.

"Though Emory sent weekly e-mails -- 17 of them, along with an invitation to a program for minority students -- they went to a school account she had not learned to check," DeParle wrote

Jesus Tittyfarking Christ.

Dear Consumerist,

I don't know how to check my email, so I dropped out of college. Who should I sue?


When are you next going to a fark party? Because I love you so very very much.
/stop peeing in the well!!
 
2013-01-07 06:19:56 PM
Unable to cope with the school's e-mail system or to decrypt its rules for imputing family income, Angelica was way too stupid and lazy for college, and should probably have been given a WalMart vest at birth.

You know, Media, the student loan crisis is a real and terrifying thing, and it's going to destroy this generation. But whenever you highlight a student, you use the STUPIDEST farkING STUDENT you can find, and you have NO IDEA what you're talking about.

Emory didn't "change" her family income arbitrarily and then force her to take $61,000 in loans without explaining what a loan was, and saying that it wasn't her fault because she couldn't figure out how to check her fng email is laughable, and it makes reasonable people ignore the issue and grumble about kids these days.
 
2013-01-07 06:24:44 PM

what_now: namatad: "Angelica reported that her mother made $35,000 a year and paid about half of that in rent. With her housing costs so high, Emory assumed the family had extra money and assigned ... an income of $51,000. ... (Angelica) discovered what had happened only recently."
Unable to cope with the school's e-mail system or to decrypt its rules for imputing family income, Angelica finally dropped out of Emory, burdened by $61,000 in student debt.

One chick can't figure out the FAFSA. Shut down everything.


Yes and heaven forfend she go to one of the many registration or financial aid counselors the school provides for free. My college age son hates weed and never touches the stuff but has real trouble with filling out forms - either online or in person. Its a weird little cognitive disability but there you have it. So he asks someone for help. Problem solved.
 
2013-01-07 06:36:31 PM
Legal or not, your kids are still going to smoke it.
 
2013-01-07 07:13:07 PM
I'm just here to mock all those people who think Frum is some kind of genius we should all listen to because he bashes the GOP.
 
2013-01-07 07:24:15 PM
Be aware that about one-sixth of users will become chronically dependent on marijuana, and as a result will suffer a serious degradation of life outcomes.


lol. and i thought it wasn't chemically addictive
 
2013-01-07 07:52:42 PM
This is perhaps the least comprehensible argument to date...
 
2013-01-07 08:17:03 PM

PreMortem: Be aware that about one-sixth of users will become chronically dependent on marijuana, and as a result will suffer a serious degradation of life outcomes.


lol. and i thought it wasn't chemically addictive


it isn't.  some people can get addicted to anything if that's how they're brain is wired.
 
2013-01-07 08:19:21 PM

violentsalvation: Legal or not, your kids are still going to smoke it.


this
 
2013-01-07 08:49:14 PM
Your pool care will suffer too...
i1079.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-07 08:54:28 PM

vernonFL: I was gonna pay my mortgage, but then I got high.


This is how I feel during the whole weekend following the 1st if the month. Then Monday comes and I pay that biatch.
 
2013-01-07 08:54:55 PM

violentsalvation: Legal or not, your kids are still going to smoke it.


You can prevent kids from ruining their lives with weed (or alcohol, cigarettes, or any recreational drug for that matter) but this involves raising them properly and counselling them about the dangers of the world.
...Not going to the weed shop with a hatchet and smashing shiat up because of some belief that prohibition might work the second or third time around.

The drug war failed. Lets put a stop to this nanny state crap and spend the savings on treating addiction instead.
 
2013-01-07 08:55:41 PM

violentsalvation: Legal or not, your kids are still going to smoke it.


And they may go to pmita prison...over a joint.
 
2013-01-07 08:56:12 PM
Saw that earlier. I want some of his stash
 
2013-01-07 08:56:32 PM
The article convinced me that pot is bad.

It screws up your logic.

Just see TFA's auther.
 
2013-01-07 08:57:13 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Is he the same David Frum who thought having George W, Bush as President for 8 years was a good idea too?

 
2013-01-07 08:57:18 PM
The illegal pot dealer is your gateway dealer to harder illegal drugs.

And that's the only way it's a gateway drug.
 
2013-01-07 08:58:37 PM

Hydra: Yet as a parent of three, two exiting adolescence and one entering, I've found that the argument that makes the biggest impression is: "Marijuana is illegal. Stay away." I think many other parents have found the same thing.


He actually believes that "It's illegal" is any kind of deterrent for teenagers? That takes as special kind of rube.
 
2013-01-07 09:00:20 PM
por-img.cimcontent.net
 
2013-01-07 09:02:24 PM

Apos: *scans headline*

*sigh* Sounds like someone really needs a blunt.


He's a conservative rallying against something which means he's probably doing it in secret.
 
2013-01-07 09:03:24 PM
So he starts off talking about weed, and somehow details to blah blah mortgages are incomprehensible and blah blah university fee anecdote and what were we talking about again? Pancakes!
 
2013-01-07 09:05:46 PM
Marijuana caused the housing crash...

Because the guys who invented the investment vehicles and the ratings agencies who developed the mathematical models were stoned outta their f*cking minds.
 
2013-01-07 09:05:50 PM
"People are stupid and they don't deserve pot."
 
2013-01-07 09:07:00 PM
They need to ban the three martini lunch that Frum had before he wrote this mess.
 
2013-01-07 09:08:02 PM
especially when you're high.

/man
 
2013-01-07 09:08:20 PM

wildcardjack: The illegal pot dealer is your gateway dealer to harder illegal drugs.

And that's the only way it's a gateway drug.


THIS
 
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