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(Slate)   Why old men find young women's voices annoying. Propensity to say "Ewwwww, get away from me, you dirty old baldy grandpa" not discussed in article   (slate.com) divider line 65
    More: Interesting, American English, Long Island University, Bob Garfield, Creaky Girls, linguists  
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3046 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Jan 2013 at 6:35 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-07 03:26:21 PM
"All right, Brian, you can do this. You can dump her, because once it's done, never again will you have to listen to her talk like this? You know, where everything has a question mark at the end of it? With an upward inflection? At the end of every sentence?"
 
2013-01-07 03:32:44 PM
Vocal creak pioneer Britney Spears

I pretty much quit caring at that point. This just in: some young women have triple-digit IQs.
 
2013-01-07 03:40:08 PM
Young woman, "Ewwwww, get away from me, you dirty old baldy grandpa."
Old man, "I'm a millionaire."
Young woman, "Did I tell you how I find bald men incredibly sexy?"
 
2013-01-07 03:56:45 PM
I find as I get older young women in general are annoying to me.   I mean I like to look at them, but when they open their mouth their attractiveness plummets.
 
2013-01-07 03:56:55 PM

scottydoesntknow: "All right, Brian, you can do this. You can dump her, because once it's done, never again will you have to listen to her talk like this? You know, where everything has a question mark at the end of it? With an upward inflection? At the end of every sentence?"


To be fair, a great many young men talk like this as well.
 
2013-01-07 03:59:37 PM

Pocket Ninja: scottydoesntknow: "All right, Brian, you can do this. You can dump her, because once it's done, never again will you have to listen to her talk like this? You know, where everything has a question mark at the end of it? With an upward inflection? At the end of every sentence?"

To be fair, a great many young men talk like this as well.


I've noticed they say things like 'bromance,' and 'dude' all the time.
 
2013-01-07 03:59:45 PM
Vocal fry?  Huh.  I always called it upper-middle class college girl.

/you sound like an idiot and adults think you're immature
//yes, i know that you're different and in fact are a million times smarter than me so i am the one who is stupid and immature
 
2013-01-07 04:06:28 PM
www.slate.com

She looks like she smells like cigarettes.
 
2013-01-07 04:06:52 PM
He summons his 11-year-old daughter Ida to the microphone to mimic the speech pattern

Was he hoping that by naming his daughter "Ida" she'd talk more like an old woman?
 
2013-01-07 04:20:55 PM

Cythraul: Pocket Ninja: scottydoesntknow: "All right, Brian, you can do this. You can dump her, because once it's done, never again will you have to listen to her talk like this? You know, where everything has a question mark at the end of it? With an upward inflection? At the end of every sentence?"

To be fair, a great many young men talk like this as well.

I've noticed they say things like 'bromance,' and 'dude' all the time.


Epic fail.  Totes no swag.
 
2013-01-07 04:34:37 PM
Stevie Nicks' voice annoys the hell out of me

/and she ain't exactly young
 
2013-01-07 04:39:12 PM
I understand the concepts of uptalking, and examples were provided... But I'm not sure I know what this 'vocal fry' or 'creaky voice' is.

Did the article give examples other than a digitally manipulated Britney Spears' song?
 
2013-01-07 04:45:13 PM

robbiex0r: I understand the concepts of uptalking, and examples were provided... But I'm not sure I know what this 'vocal fry' or 'creaky voice' is.

Did the article give examples other than a digitally manipulated Britney Spears' song?


The original article was a 20+ minute podcast, but basically it's what a Kardashian sounds like.  Here's a good summary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsE5mysfZsY
 
2013-01-07 04:55:21 PM

Rapmaster2000: robbiex0r: I understand the concepts of uptalking, and examples were provided... But I'm not sure I know what this 'vocal fry' or 'creaky voice' is.

Did the article give examples other than a digitally manipulated Britney Spears' song?

The original article was a 20+ minute podcast, but basically it's what a Kardashian sounds like.  Here's a good summary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsE5mysfZsY


that IS annoying.
 
2013-01-07 05:07:39 PM
That's why redtube has a mute button.
 
2013-01-07 05:56:32 PM

Rapmaster2000: robbiex0r: I understand the concepts of uptalking, and examples were provided... But I'm not sure I know what this 'vocal fry' or 'creaky voice' is.

Did the article give examples other than a digitally manipulated Britney Spears' song?

The original article was a 20+ minute podcast, but basically it's what a Kardashian sounds like.  Here's a good summary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsE5mysfZsY


oh.
oh dear.
 
2013-01-07 06:43:09 PM

Ennuipoet: I find as I get older young women in general are annoying to me.   I mean I like to look at them, but when they open their mouth their attractiveness plummets.


That's why my trunk has double the insulation.
 
2013-01-07 07:01:13 PM

Rapmaster2000: robbiex0r: I understand the concepts of uptalking, and examples were provided... But I'm not sure I know what this 'vocal fry' or 'creaky voice' is.

Did the article give examples other than a digitally manipulated Britney Spears' song?

The original article was a 20+ minute podcast, but basically it's what a Kardashian sounds like.  Here's a good summary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsE5mysfZsY


That was an extremely good explanation.  I used to do classic vocals, and had a friend (low alto) who got polyps on her vocal chords from doing that.  The Christian Bale Batman bugs the hell out of me because his Batman voice is nothing but fry.  I think the real problem isn't a tonal uptick or use of excessive diphthongs, it's the actual straining of the vocal chords, which a lot of valley girls just happen to do.
 
2013-01-07 07:01:26 PM

Rapmaster2000: robbiex0r: I understand the concepts of uptalking, and examples were provided... But I'm not sure I know what this 'vocal fry' or 'creaky voice' is.

Did the article give examples other than a digitally manipulated Britney Spears' song?

The original article was a 20+ minute podcast, but basically it's what a Kardashian sounds like.  Here's a good summary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsE5mysfZsY


OMG that girls' NORMAL voice annoyed me more than anything. It would probably be ok if she had written down what she wanted to say instead of just trying to do it all off the cuff.

She even did the vocal fry herself a few times without realizing it.

Vocal fry doesn't bother me, by itself. Of course, teenage girls trying to talk like teenage girls is annoying but that's not what I'm referring to.

After reading about it on Fark, the place I noticed it the most is Criminal Minds. After hearing it, I couldn't stop hearing it. It still doesn't bother me a lot... it just bothers me that I notice it more. ALL the younger women on that show do it, and so does Matthew Gray Gubler. I tried to find a quick YouTube example, but I couldn't, but I swear... every episode, almost every line they give. I think when they do it, they're trying to sound humble and confident at the same time. These are smart women (their characters on the show anyway) but they're trying not to be pushy and I think that's where the vocal fry is coming in.

Now, the stronger men on the show NEVER do it. But Matthew Gray Gubler does it ALL the time.
 
2013-01-07 07:26:42 PM

scottydoesntknow: "All right, Brian, you can do this. You can dump her, because once it's done, never again will you have to listen to her talk like this? You know, where everything has a question mark at the end of it? With an upward inflection? At the end of every sentence?"


That's what annoys me. The uncertain statements that sound like questions. The constant meaningless exhilation of "I'm sorry" more befitting a medieval peasant addressing her betters.
 
2013-01-07 07:31:18 PM
It has nothing to do with the age of the man. It has to do with the culture of the man. Men use vocal fry for a lot of fleeting reasons: used throughout the *entire* price haggling process, for example. It's an expression for us of detachment, disinterest, disbelief, impatience, sometimes scorn, and sometimes sarcasm. Either way it's got negative connotation among men... Which makes it an unattractive trait when displayed out of context, i.e. by an attractive young woman. Or child (where it seems to present as obstinate defiance. The child fries vocals when being dismissive of authority. Go to your local organic food market and watch the biatch men get bossed around by their creaky voiced children.) When we hear it in the female voice, it inevitably raises those same vague emotional preconceptions we've associated with "vocal fry", as I've said, which are culturally accepted as legitimate expression between males seeking mutual agreeance of perception, but are utilized for their ulderlying power to annoy in the first place.

I don't find it annoying myself. I just don't find it sexy. Nothing wrong with that, and age has nothing to do with it.
 
2013-01-07 07:33:05 PM
It has nothing to do with this, but something I read and found interesting was from a woman in her mid-twenties who was working undercover in a high school for something or other (not a cop). She was able to fit in just fine ... except ... she noticed that most teens laugh from their mouths, not from the diaphragm or whatever it is that adults use.

Since reading that years ago, it's all I can hear when I'm near them. And now, their laughter always sounds fake to me, like someone impersonating a laugh or a bad actor.
 
2013-01-07 07:35:49 PM
I have the sneaking suspicion that he doesn't like hearing any woman's voice, in any modulation, at any time. How frustrating life must be for him.
 
2013-01-07 07:47:08 PM
Young girls having annoying inflections is annoying. Corporate executives, news anchors, and college professors with the Valley Girl Lift or the Vocal Fry (thanks for the vocabulary expansion, TFA) is yet another sign of the collapse of the empire.
 
2013-01-07 07:52:41 PM
24.media.tumblr.com

What a vocal Fry might look like
 
2013-01-07 08:02:15 PM
A younger relative of mine does this. She irritates the shiat out of me. The first time I noticed it I wanted to ask her to stop. She actually sounds like she's straining her voice, it's that creaky.

Apparently I do an awesome imitation of that way of speaking. You have to draw out your words and sound really whiny. I could see how it might mess up your vocal cords.
 
2013-01-07 08:03:53 PM
Sic some she-bears on them if they call you baldy.
 
2013-01-07 08:29:50 PM
that article was an abortion
 
2013-01-07 08:33:27 PM
For years, women have been criticized for raising their voices at the end of sentences. This "Valley Girl lift," as Hofstra fine arts professor Laurie Fendrich maligns it, "reveals an unexplainable lack of confidence in one's opinions and a radical uncertainty about one's place in the world."

Professor you have it 180 degrees backwards: the uptalk (or "High Rising Terminal (HRT)" for those that like fancy pants words) doesn't signify a weakness: rather it is a way for the speaker to show dominance by saying "can you mopes understand everything I've said so far?"

For more details (or "deets" as the kids say) look through the Language Log archives.
 
2013-01-07 08:40:25 PM
And I see I should have read the entire article as the man behind Language Log was quoted.

In some discourse communities, Liberman documents, "final rises" have actually been used by men and women to "assert dominance and control" over the conversation

I've noticed the gravely voice (I like their term "vocal fry") on NPR when they interviewed a younger person. It drove me bananas so much I wanted to 23 skidoo out of my horseless carriage. Perhaps it was extra annoying as I find any interview on NPR ultra annoying. Hey let's walk through the woods and I'll hold the mike down here by the leaves you're stepping on. Oh there's an owl I'll get a recording of it while you're talking.

That's interesting about the explanation for it being that they are trying to impersonate an elderly person to get some respect. I always took it to me that the person talking wants to imply that they don't really care about something that they have knowledge about, thus making themselves seem even smarter.
 
2013-01-07 08:41:05 PM

Cythraul: Young woman, "Ewwwww, get away from me, you dirty old baldy grandpa."
Old man, "I'm a millionaire."
Young woman, "Did I tell you how I find bald men incredibly sexy?"


i.cdn.turner.com
Didn't help this guy.
 
2013-01-07 08:42:57 PM

BumpInTheNight: That's why redtube has a mute button.


+100000 iternets
 
2013-01-07 08:53:28 PM

Rapmaster2000: robbiex0r: I understand the concepts of uptalking, and examples were provided... But I'm not sure I know what this 'vocal fry' or 'creaky voice' is.

Did the article give examples other than a digitally manipulated Britney Spears' song?

The original article was a 20+ minute podcast, but basically it's what a Kardashian sounds like.  Here's a good summary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsE5mysfZsY


Finally someone gives me an example that actually gets to the point. Thanks.
 
2013-01-07 08:58:56 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Stevie Nicks' voice annoys the hell out of me

/and she ain't exactly young


You think her voice is annoying, you should get a whiff of her snatch.
 
2013-01-07 08:59:02 PM

robbiex0r: I understand the concepts of uptalking, and examples were provided... But I'm not sure I know what this 'vocal fry' or 'creaky voice' is.

Did the article give examples other than a digitally manipulated Britney Spears' song?


The April character from Parks and Recreation.
 
2013-01-07 09:21:24 PM

Luca de Balzac: The April character from Parks and Recreation.


cdn.thegrindstone.com
 
2013-01-07 09:55:25 PM
Oh, oh, and I almost forgot. Ahh, I'm also gonna need you to go ahead and come in on Sunday, too...
 
2013-01-07 10:58:47 PM

Rapmaster2000: Vocal fry?  Huh.  I always called it upper-middle class college girl.

/you sound like an idiot and adults think you're immature
//yes, i know that you're different and in fact are a million times smarter than me so i am the one who is stupid and immature


I've noticed this a LOT on TV and radio commercials. When did it start... Anyone remember the scene in the original Conan the Barbarian with the shape-shifter witch? Her lines, as I recall, have that "fry" pattern. That's about the first time I remember hearing that.

Anyone?

Bueller?
 
2013-01-07 11:12:12 PM

Fano: scottydoesntknow: "All right, Brian, you can do this. You can dump her, because once it's done, never again will you have to listen to her talk like this? You know, where everything has a question mark at the end of it? With an upward inflection? At the end of every sentence?"

That's what annoys me. The uncertain statements that sound like questions. The constant meaningless exhilation of "I'm sorry" more befitting a medieval peasant addressing her betters.


Also terminally annoying: Longtalk. Where every farking syllable, but particularly the ones at the end of a sentence, are draaaaaaawwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn ouuuuuuuuuuuuut.
 
2013-01-07 11:14:06 PM

SomeoneDumb: It has nothing to do with this, but something I read and found interesting was from a woman in her mid-twenties who was working undercover in a high school for something or other (not a cop). She was able to fit in just fine ... except ... she noticed that most teens laugh from their mouths, not from the diaphragm or whatever it is that adults use.

Since reading that years ago, it's all I can hear when I'm near them. And now, their laughter always sounds fake to me, like someone impersonating a laugh or a bad actor.


Fake laughter? Hear it ALL the time in corporate cubical environments.
 
2013-01-07 11:57:34 PM
First two words of the article:

"Last week"

[oldnewsisexciting.jpg]

/find the NPR audio; it's much more interesting than this "article"
 
2013-01-08 12:13:10 AM
FTA: As women gain status and power in the professional world, young women may not be forced to carefully modify totally benign aspects of their behavior in order to be heard. Our speech may not yet be considered professional, but it's on its way there.

Is she saying that a vocal fry isn't doing exactly that (forcefully modifying your natural speech), or is she saying one day devices such as the vocal fry won't have to be used? Either way she's wrong.
 
2013-01-08 12:22:23 AM
Stupid article. Read it twice and it rambled all over the place without making any real point and tried to describe the sound without doing the sensible thing like LINKING TO AN AUDIO EXAMPLE of WTF they're talking about. Then I scrolled back up and noticed that it was written by a woman. Figures.

What I assumed she meant from reading TFA.
 
2013-01-08 12:24:29 AM
Vocal fry is goddamn awful. I'll sometimes encounter a woman who does this and I'm baffled that she feels the need to put on an affectation. Why not do a fake accent while you're at it?
 
2013-01-08 12:40:59 AM

scottydoesntknow: "All right, Brian, you can do this. You can dump her, because once it's done, never again will you have to listen to her talk like this? You know, where everything has a question mark at the end of it? With an upward inflection? At the end of every sentence?"


Gah...so much "this" and that farking retarded phrase "I know, right?"

/off my lawn
//I sound old
 
2013-01-08 01:04:01 AM

Ed Finnerty: Ennuipoet: I find as I get older young women in general are annoying to me.   I mean I like to look at them, but when they open their mouth their attractiveness plummets.

That's why my trunk has double the insulation.


Give her something to put in her mouth. *just sayin'
 
2013-01-08 01:21:28 AM

DigitalCoffee: Stupid article. Read it twice and it rambled all over the place without making any real point and tried to describe the sound without doing the sensible thing like LINKING TO AN AUDIO EXAMPLE of WTF they're talking about. Then I scrolled back up and noticed that it was written by a woman. Figures.

What I assumed she meant from reading TFA.


I had to look it up

Link

My sister in law does this. It's not annoying to me though, more amusing as it's usually when she is trying to prove she know what she is talking about(which quite often she does) and she's trying to put me in my place.
 
2013-01-08 04:24:29 AM
Delta Delta Delta, can I help ya help ya help ya?

Isn't the real question here "Why don't younger men find that annoying?" I think you would be surprised to find that it's not just 'old men' who think you sound like one of the sheep that will do anything to be accepted when you talk like that. Younger guys just go along because it improves their chances of hooking up with you. Older guys don't give a shiat and will tell you that you sound like an idiot.
 
2013-01-08 06:53:40 AM
The constant use of the word "like" allows me to identify young American women in any crowd. Especially when coupled with a piercing nasality, meaningless changes in pitch and volume just louder than everyone else nearby.
I first noticed it living abroad, but when I come back to the States, it's equally startling.
 
2013-01-08 07:02:11 AM
ballgag.jpg
 
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