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(CNN)   "You mean that Jesus might have had severe diarrhea?" "Yep, That's exactly what I mean." Holy crap   (religion.blogs.cnn.com ) divider line
    More: Amusing, Nazareth, self-help, Liberty University, Christian mythology  
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17074 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Jan 2013 at 4:08 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-07 04:42:48 PM  

Wayne 985: Don't only Catholics believe that Jesus is God? I was raised as a non-denominational Protestant and attended a Baptist church, where it was made clear that he was meant to be the son of God, almost like a prince regent.

Are there Protestant sects who believe the two are synonymous?


Uhm...no. That's basically a complete misreading of the doctrine of the Trinity; that's closer to the official dogma of the Mormon churches.

Well, let me rephrase that. Uhm...probably not. A non-denominational Protestant church is probably not part of any larger communion or organization and therefore can form whatever Christology it wants. Baptist churches are generally self-governing, but usually at least affiliated with some sort of larger organization (the Southern Baptist Convention, for example), which does have a statement of faith that disagrees with the statement you made. Of course, just like "non-denominational Protestant" churches, there are churches that call themselves "Baptist" that aren't affiliated with anyone else, and so can have their own confessions.

That being said, it would be unusual - essentially all churches in the world that have well-defined theologies (which you would think would be all of them, but unfortunately that isn't the case) have accepted the doctrine of the Trinity, in which God is one God in three Persons, with one essence and all of which are co-eternal.

/ not Christian
// know more about Christianity and its history than any Christian I know
/// everyone has a hobby
 
2013-01-07 04:43:34 PM  

suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.


Please. I'm Jewish and could give a rat's ass whether he actually existed or not, and I definitely don't believe he's divine. But there's no question at all there's a significant amount of historical evidence that a "Jesus" existed, and most historical scholars believe this.

Can anyone prove it? Of course not. But there's way more evidence there than for a historical Robin Hood or Merlin.
 
2013-01-07 04:43:52 PM  
"I call this the dirty side of Jesus "

Next he's going to tell us about the softer side of Sears.
 
2013-01-07 04:43:54 PM  
I will withhold an opinion until I see what Bevets says.
 
2013-01-07 04:44:35 PM  
They say that Jesus left behind him a sense of peace and love. What they forget to mention is that he'd also leave behind a basketball-sized chocolate mudbaby and a destroyed a bathroom.

i49.tinypic.com
 
2013-01-07 04:44:37 PM  
Everybody knows that a Paladin gains immunity to disease at level 3.

Jesus had to be at least level 6, because he could clearly cast "Remove Disease" on others.

We know he's a Paladin rather than a Cleric because he showed proficiency with a whip, and Clerics are restricted to simple weapons (which doesn't include whips).
 
2013-01-07 04:46:20 PM  

Supes: There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.


This. You don't have to believe everything from the gospels to accept that parts reflect reality. Just like you don't have to be a muslim to accept Muhammad as a historical figure.
 
2013-01-07 04:51:46 PM  

MyNameIsMofuga: The best part about hanging around with Jesus when he had dysentery was when he turned the explosive diarrhea into delicious chocolate milk shakes.


Well they need something to wash down those fishes and loaves he served at the Mount of Olives.
 
2013-01-07 04:52:58 PM  

ChrisDe: No! Jesus was a Caucasian man that spoke Englishia


that was his rich cousin, Supply Side Jesus
 
2013-01-07 04:53:06 PM  

Ilmarinen: Supes: There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

This. You don't have to believe everything from the gospels to accept that parts reflect reality. Just like you don't have to be a muslim to accept Muhammad as a historical figure.


One non-Biblical contemporary reference to him would be nice. And please don't drag Josephus into this as he wasn't even in Jerusalem until 71 AD (and even that one violates Catholic dogma).
 
2013-01-07 04:53:19 PM  

maniacbastard: If Jesus was gay to, I'd bet he had something that would plug him up nicely.


The Sacred Butt Plug of Antioch?
 
2013-01-07 04:54:14 PM  

FuryOfFirestorm: MyNameIsMofuga: The best part about hanging around with Jesus when he had dysentery was when he turned the explosive diarrhea into delicious chocolate milk shakes.

Well they need something to wash down those fishes and loaves he served at the Mount of Olives.


Olive Loaf?! No wonder he had the runs.
 
2013-01-07 04:56:15 PM  

Lord Dimwit: Wayne 985: Don't only Catholics believe that Jesus is God? I was raised as a non-denominational Protestant and attended a Baptist church, where it was made clear that he was meant to be the son of God, almost like a prince regent.

Are there Protestant sects who believe the two are synonymous?

Uhm...no. That's basically a complete misreading of the doctrine of the Trinity; that's closer to the official dogma of the Mormon churches.

Well, let me rephrase that. Uhm...probably not. A non-denominational Protestant church is probably not part of any larger communion or organization and therefore can form whatever Christology it wants. Baptist churches are generally self-governing, but usually at least affiliated with some sort of larger organization (the Southern Baptist Convention, for example), which does have a statement of faith that disagrees with the statement you made. Of course, just like "non-denominational Protestant" churches, there are churches that call themselves "Baptist" that aren't affiliated with anyone else, and so can have their own confessions.

That being said, it would be unusual - essentially all churches in the world that have well-defined theologies (which you would think would be all of them, but unfortunately that isn't the case) have accepted the doctrine of the Trinity, in which God is one God in three Persons, with one essence and all of which are co-eternal.

/ not Christian
// know more about Christianity and its history than any Christian I know
/// everyone has a hobby


This was the question that started me down the road to atheism around 10 or 12.
"So is Jesus god or god's son?"
"Both"
"How can that be?"
"That's a mystery"
"So is god one person or three?"
"Both"
"How can that be?"
"That's a mystery"
"Can you even answer one question about this guy, didn't you have to go to college to be a priest? Or is that a mystery too?"

I wasn't too popular with the priest at the local parish, which looking back was probably a good thing.
 
2013-01-07 04:56:52 PM  

MyNameIsMofuga: The best part about hanging around with Jesus when he had dysentery was when he turned the explosive diarrhea into delicious chocolate milk shakes.


Right after he served beer, straight from the tap.
 
2013-01-07 04:58:40 PM  

suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.


Jesus existed but he wasn't a man-god. The stories about him were stolen from other gods to give his worldview credence.
 
2013-01-07 04:59:28 PM  
For his core 12 disciples, Jesus included a tough-as-nails, bombastic fisherman (Peter), a chief tax collector named Matthew (the most hated popular figure of the time), an eventual traitor who was stealing money out of the offering bucket (Judas), a prolific doubter (Thomas), two jocks nicknamed the "Sons of Thunder" (James and John) and Simon the Zealot, a member of a radical political party which believed in using violence to kick out the Romans.

Jesus was one tough mutha! One hardcore dude, man!
 
2013-01-07 05:00:19 PM  

elchip: Everybody knows that a Paladin gains immunity to disease at level 3.

Jesus had to be at least level 6, because he could clearly cast "Remove Disease" on others.

We know he's a Paladin rather than a Cleric because he showed proficiency with a whip, and Clerics are restricted to simple weapons (which doesn't include whips).


I think I love you.
 
2013-01-07 05:01:30 PM  

LovingTeacher: Lord Dimwit: Wayne 985: Don't only Catholics believe that Jesus is God? I was raised as a non-denominational Protestant and attended a Baptist church, where it was made clear that he was meant to be the son of God, almost like a prince regent.

Are there Protestant sects who believe the two are synonymous?

Uhm...no. That's basically a complete misreading of the doctrine of the Trinity; that's closer to the official dogma of the Mormon churches.

Well, let me rephrase that. Uhm...probably not. A non-denominational Protestant church is probably not part of any larger communion or organization and therefore can form whatever Christology it wants. Baptist churches are generally self-governing, but usually at least affiliated with some sort of larger organization (the Southern Baptist Convention, for example), which does have a statement of faith that disagrees with the statement you made. Of course, just like "non-denominational Protestant" churches, there are churches that call themselves "Baptist" that aren't affiliated with anyone else, and so can have their own confessions.

That being said, it would be unusual - essentially all churches in the world that have well-defined theologies (which you would think would be all of them, but unfortunately that isn't the case) have accepted the doctrine of the Trinity, in which God is one God in three Persons, with one essence and all of which are co-eternal.

/ not Christian
// know more about Christianity and its history than any Christian I know
/// everyone has a hobby

This was the question that started me down the road to atheism around 10 or 12.
"So is Jesus god or god's son?"
"Both"
"How can that be?"
"That's a mystery"
"So is god one person or three?"
"Both"
"How can that be?"
"That's a mystery"
"Can you even answer one question about this guy, didn't you have to go to college to be a priest? Or is that a mystery too?"

I wasn't too popular with the priest at the local parish, which looking back was probably a good thing.


I laughed in church about the book of joshua where god stopped the sun in the sky.

They didn't like me either.
 
2013-01-07 05:06:11 PM  

Supes: suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.

Please. I'm Jewish and could give a rat's ass whether he actually existed or not, and I definitely don't believe he's divine. But there's no question at all there's a significant amount of historical evidence that a "Jesus" existed, and most historical scholars believe this.

Can anyone prove it? Of course not. But there's way more evidence there than for a historical Robin Hood or Merlin.


I've always been interested in the question of whether or not Jesus actually existed. I used to just accept the consensus of scholars that he probably did, but as I've gotten older I've changed my views back and forth several times. First off, most scholars who have even asked the question throughout history are Christian, and so have a bias.

There are no writings from Jesus's life that mention him. Zero. None. None of the Gospels were written during his life or even by anyone who knew him (the attributions of the Gospels to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John doesn't hold up to any kind of literary criticism). The Pauline Epistles, written before the Gospels, were written by Paul, a man who never knew of an Earthly Jesus and certainly never met him. In these letters, Jesus is usually described in metaphorical and spiritual terms.

Non-Christian mentions of Jesus happen well after his death (more than a hundred years) and almost always just repeat things as hearsay or just talk about "Christians" in general. No one doubts Christians in general existed in those times, though.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter to me since I'm a hell-bound heathen, but I'm just saying that there's not as much evidence as everyone seems to think.
 
2013-01-07 05:09:55 PM  

Kibbler: the rest of the article demonstrates someone who has actually read the gospels, and not just skimmed over them.

That puts him in the 0.1%.  Based on my experience anyway.


You mean the really, REALLY annoying, Ned-Flanders level people who just won't stop with the godspeak and are allergic to reason? Probably.
 
2013-01-07 05:11:23 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-07 05:11:37 PM  

turbocucumber: MyNameIsMofuga: The best part about hanging around with Jesus when he had dysentery was when he turned the explosive diarrhea into delicious chocolate milk shakes.

Right after he served beer, straight from the tap.



And that, my children, is where Budweiser comes from.
 
2013-01-07 05:11:51 PM  

Brian Ryanberger: Is this the thread where liberals make fun of Jesus and get themselves put on a list of people going to hell?


No, this is the thread where we make fun of Jesus with no consequences whatsoever.
 
2013-01-07 05:12:26 PM  

imageshack.us



Despite all the renown and the adulation, we have no idea what in hell the Jesus actually looked like. For example, the guy on the left is Italian football darling, Francesco Totti. The guy on right ... is a complete and utter figment of the imagination of the Roman Catholic Church.
 
2013-01-07 05:12:56 PM  

downstairs: [www.jimbo.info image 558x220]


Parthenogenetic: downstairs: [www.jimbo.info image 558x220]

[i.imgur.com image 600x396]


You magnificent bastards! I used to LOVE Oregon Trail! Ahh the farking fourth grade. That's when life was easy.

/wipes away tear
 
2013-01-07 05:13:02 PM  

elchip: Everybody knows that a Paladin gains immunity to disease at level 3.

Jesus had to be at least level 6, because he could clearly cast "Remove Disease" on others.

We know he's a Paladin rather than a Cleric because he showed proficiency with a whip, and Clerics are restricted to simple weapons (which doesn't include whips).


Did you forget that Jesus raised several people from death? No Paladin would be able to do that, because Raise Dead is not on the Paladin spell list.

When Jesus wielded the whip, he accepted the -4 penalty to hit because of His lack of the exotic weapon proficiency. The money changers would have had a low Armor Class. Jesus would have a reasonably good Base Attack Bonus as a high-level cleric, and He would have been able to cast some decent attack buffs on Himself.
 
2013-01-07 05:13:45 PM  
Me and jesus have something in common
 
2013-01-07 05:14:01 PM  

Parthenogenetic: elchip: Everybody knows that a Paladin gains immunity to disease at level 3.

Jesus had to be at least level 6, because he could clearly cast "Remove Disease" on others.

We know he's a Paladin rather than a Cleric because he showed proficiency with a whip, and Clerics are restricted to simple weapons (which doesn't include whips).

Did you forget that Jesus raised several people from death? No Paladin would be able to do that, because Raise Dead is not on the Paladin spell list.

When Jesus wielded the whip, he accepted the -4 penalty to hit because of His lack of the exotic weapon proficiency. The money changers would have had a low Armor Class. Jesus would have a reasonably good Base Attack Bonus as a high-level cleric, and He would have been able to cast some decent attack buffs on Himself.


THAC0 is heretical. Invented by Satan.
 
2013-01-07 05:15:17 PM  
Jesus? A god?

Not hardly, just some crazy myth a bunch of stupid selfish bastards belief in and completely misunderstand. It would not be so bad if Christians were really Christ like, but they are more like Mohammad then Christ.
 
2013-01-07 05:16:27 PM  

Lord Dimwit: I've always been interested in the question of whether or not Jesus actually existed. I used to just accept the consensus of scholars that he probably did, but as I've gotten older I've changed my views back and forth several times. First off, most scholars who have even asked the question throughout history are Christian, and so have a bias.

There are no writings from Jesus's life that mention him. Zero. None. None of the Gospels were written during his life or even by anyone who knew him (the attributions of the Gospels to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John doesn't hold up to any kind of literary criticism). The Pauline Epistles, written before the Gospels, were written by Paul, a man who never knew of an Earthly Jesus and certainly never met him. In these letters, Jesus is usually described in metaphorical and spiritual terms.

Non-Christian mentions of Jesus happen well after his death (more than a hundred years) and almost always just repeat things as hearsay or just talk about "Christians" in general. No one doubts Christians in general existed in those times, though.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter to me since I'm a hell-bound heathen, but I'm just saying that there's not as much evidence as everyone seems to think.


I'm inclined to think he did. "Arguments from silence" (i.e., arguments he did not due to lack of contemporary sources) by their very nature can not be definitive, especially given what a small percentage of historical texts survive from that time period.

The variety and abundance of non-Christians sources with nothing to gain from mentioning Jesus makes me think he did exist, though was certainly a relatively minor historical footnote to them. But anyway, obviously there's no way to know for sure one way or another.
 
2013-01-07 05:17:08 PM  
i.imgur.com

Also, for you D&D old-schoolers:

i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-07 05:17:27 PM  

suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.


Cite your evidence that Jesus didn't exist. You seem pretty well convinced he didn't.

To save time, the Bible, both those parts written by the ancient Hebrews and those written by later writers during the Roman era, contains a ton of historical information that is easily verified by secondary sources and archeological evidence. Of course there is allegory and things that are probably "amplified" depending upon your beliefs. But on balance, there's enough there that can be verified that you must take it into account when studying or writing about ancient Middle Eastern history.

If Jesus is a conglomeration of different prophets that arose in the days before the Jewish revolt, then there would have been some sort of evidence that would have been unearthed by now. That hasn't happened. You can talk about secret Vatican documents or Imperial suppression of the Gnostics all you want, but we're still left with a guy that several people who knew him decided that his teachings were important enough that they wanted to write about them and they suffered terribly for it.
 
2013-01-07 05:18:47 PM  

F22raptom: Me and jesus have something in common


Your boss is working you to death?
 
2013-01-07 05:19:38 PM  

give me doughnuts:
One non-Biblical contemporary reference to him would be nice. And please don't drag Josephus into this as he wasn't even in Jerusalem until 71 AD (and even that one violates Catholic dogma).


What the heck does Catholic dogma have to do with anything? And why do references have to be non-Biblical? If you've got a text from that era, I don't care whether you found it in a latrine or in a collection of holy myths.
Maybe there are no documents about Paul the Apostle outside the NT either, but he sure as hell was real.

Once more, with feeling: you don't have to be a christian to accept Jesus as historical.

/also, again, the Muhammad example
 
2013-01-07 05:20:07 PM  

elchip: Everybody knows that a Paladin gains immunity to disease at level 3.

Jesus had to be at least level 6, because he could clearly cast "Remove Disease" on others.

We know he's a Paladin rather than a Cleric because he showed proficiency with a whip, and Clerics are restricted to simple weapons (which doesn't include whips).


You are aware, of course, that a cleric has access to a whip if he worships Calistria.
 
2013-01-07 05:20:23 PM  

suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.


Or even Socrates or Epictetus. With the destruction of the the Jewish birth records during the Roman sacking of Jerusalem, you've lost the chance to find 'historical Jesus'. Whether or not you include Josephus, you're left with about 130 books and some associated letters by people that claimed to know him or who claimed to interview those that did. Most of those are pretty weird.

But if you're going to say he never existed, how far back do you start eliminating church figures? James was the first bishop of Jerusalem and was at least mentioned by Josephus. What was before him?

Probably a more defensible position would be historical Jesus: 'A social activist that had his message corrupted.'

/"Well, obviously it's not meant to be taken literally; it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products. "
//Christian
 
2013-01-07 05:21:08 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: I guess that's what the Bible means when it says, "And it came to pass."


Also, He'll come in the name of the lord!
 
2013-01-07 05:23:04 PM  
Non-sequiter. Being "fully man" doesn't mean experiencing each possible biological complication a human might be subject to experience. If I believe Jesus was fully man, there is no logical chain of reasoning holding me to other beliefs regarding his humanity. It is no rational contradiction to believe Jesus did not have dysentery in his life time. To wit, I have yet to succumb to gingivitis, as often humans do. Does that make me not human?
 
2013-01-07 05:23:07 PM  
Supes

TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.


There in NO evidence that Jesus ever existed. Stories in the bible are all hearsay. There is no a single nonbiblical source that mentions him. So , no you can't make a credible argument that he existed. On the other hand, there are statues of Zeus.
 
2013-01-07 05:24:06 PM  
Did he also have Industrial Disease?
 
2013-01-07 05:24:12 PM  

Ilmarinen: Supes: There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

This. You don't have to believe everything from the gospels to accept that parts reflect reality. Just like you don't have to be a muslim to accept Muhammad as a historical figure.


Read more about it.
 
2013-01-07 05:26:00 PM  
You know they didn't have toilet paper then.

/Don't shake his left hand...
 
2013-01-07 05:27:12 PM  

TwilightZone: There in NO evidence that Jesus ever existed. Stories in the bible are all hearsay. There is no a single nonbiblical source that mentions him. So , no you can't make a credible argument that he existed. On the other hand, there are statues of Zeus.


Ignoring the obvious sarcasm in your response, hearsay is actually a type of evidence. It may not admissible in American courts, but that's not relevant to historical research.
 
2013-01-07 05:28:09 PM  

xkillyourfacex: Non-sequiter. Being "fully man" doesn't mean experiencing each possible biological complication a human might be subject to experience. If I believe Jesus was fully man, there is no logical chain of reasoning holding me to other beliefs regarding his humanity. It is no rational contradiction to believe Jesus did not have dysentery in his life time. To wit, I have yet to succumb to gingivitis, as often humans do. Does that make me not human?


While God was willing to allow His only begotten Son to be tortured to death and spend several days in Hell... He did not require that Jesus get married!

Think about that!

/married
 
2013-01-07 05:28:55 PM  

Scaevola: Ilmarinen: Supes: There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

This. You don't have to believe everything from the gospels to accept that parts reflect reality. Just like you don't have to be a muslim to accept Muhammad as a historical figure.

Read more about it.


True, although there are third-party mentions of Mohammad and his doings from contemporaries, unlike Jesus.
 
2013-01-07 05:30:22 PM  

hdhale: suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.

Cite your evidence that Jesus didn't exist. You seem pretty well convinced he didn't.

To save time, the Bible, both those parts written by the ancient Hebrews and those written by later writers during the Roman era, contains a ton of historical information that is easily verified by secondary sources and archeological evidence. Of course there is allegory and things that are probably "amplified" depending upon your beliefs. But on balance, there's enough there that can be verified that you must take it into account when studying or writing about ancient Middle Eastern history.

If Jesus is a conglomeration of different prophets that arose in the days before the Jewish revolt, then there would have been some sort of evidence that would have been unearthed by now. That hasn't happened. You can talk about secret Vatican documents or Imperial suppression of the Gnostics all you want, but we're still left with a guy that several people who knew him decided that his teachings were important enough that they wanted to write about them and they suffered terribly for it.


There is no other written evidence of a historical Jesus, except those texts supposedly written by Jesus himself. There is no evidence that Pontious Pilot ever executed a man named Jesus. There is not a single contemporary writing that even mentions Jesus. None, zilch, zero, zip, nada, nothing.

The four canonical Gospels of the bible did not come from the "original" authors themselves, but are works derived from early Christian founders. The gospel of Mark comes from around 70 CE and that is that any gospel can be dated.

So, in short you can believe in Jesus of Nazzereth if you want, but history does not weigh in favor of there ever being a single person called Jesus of Nazzereth or Jesus the son of god.
 
2013-01-07 05:30:29 PM  

TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.


www.celebritypitch.com
 
2013-01-07 05:32:37 PM  

Lord Dimwit: Parthenogenetic: elchip: and Clerics are restricted to simple weapons (which doesn't include whips).



First off, WTF are you talking about

Second off, never played D&D but how is a whip not included on a simple items list?
 
2013-01-07 05:34:48 PM  
So what, just get a couple of the jumbo 42-lb bags of Ever Clean extra strength unscented, dump them out at the base of the crucifix... Give one of the centurions, Longinus or one of his friends or whoever, a heavy-duty litter scoop and an empty sack. Problem solved.
 
2013-01-07 05:38:37 PM  

Heathen: Second off, never played D&D but how is a whip not included on a simple items list?


Ever used a whip?  It's not a Simple Weapon.
 
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