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(CNN)   "You mean that Jesus might have had severe diarrhea?" "Yep, That's exactly what I mean." Holy crap   (religion.blogs.cnn.com) divider line 180
    More: Amusing, Nazareth, self-help, Liberty University, Christian mythology  
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17057 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Jan 2013 at 4:08 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-07 01:51:48 PM
Was Japanese.
 
2013-01-07 01:55:27 PM
 If Jesus got dysentry then Arius was right.
 
2013-01-07 02:01:04 PM
I was laughing at the headline before clicking the link.

+1 subby
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-01-07 02:08:50 PM
i wonder if anyone ever passed off a desiccated turd as a Jesus relic?  There was a whole industry for that sort of thing.

65.96.0.19

This is his poo!
 
2013-01-07 03:14:48 PM
www.jimbo.info
 
2013-01-07 03:33:02 PM
So the Shroud of Turin may be the Toilet Paper of Turin?
 
2013-01-07 04:09:48 PM
Fakkir, heal thyself.
 
2013-01-07 04:09:55 PM

Ed Finnerty: So the Shroud of Turin may be the Toilet Paper of Turin?


Ewwwww. He wiped his face with it?
 
2013-01-07 04:10:43 PM

vpb: This is his poo!


Hahaha, outstanding.
 
2013-01-07 04:11:28 PM
I dunno, I think if I had the ability to turn water into wine I'd also do something about that emergency roadside diarrhea.
 
2013-01-07 04:11:40 PM

Ed Finnerty: So the Shroud of Turin may be the Toilet Paper of Turin?


Shroud Of Turdin?
 
2013-01-07 04:12:20 PM
So he's answering Joan Osborne's question?
 
2013-01-07 04:12:23 PM

Peaceboy: I dunno, I think if I had the ability to turn water into wine I'd also do something about that emergency roadside diarrhea.


Where do you think all those loaves and fishes came from?
 
2013-01-07 04:12:26 PM
amberbooks.com
 
2013-01-07 04:12:45 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-07 04:12:56 PM
Everybody poops
 
2013-01-07 04:14:03 PM
The best part about hanging around with Jesus when he had dysentery was when he turned the explosive diarrhea into delicious chocolate milk shakes.
 
2013-01-07 04:14:53 PM
Holy Hershey squirts, Batman!
 
2013-01-07 04:16:02 PM
How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.
 
2013-01-07 04:16:05 PM
Johnnie Moore is ... a professor of religion and vice president at Liberty University.

You're asking me to read an awful lot of words about something that happened 2000 years ago when those words come from a guy who is completely unqualified to talk about anything that happened on this planet before he was about five years old...
 
2013-01-07 04:16:30 PM
I hear he was quite fond of the Portuguese breakfast, followed by a Tijuana milkshake. Dirty indeed.
 
2013-01-07 04:16:55 PM
I bet His poops smelled like fresh baked cookies.
 
2013-01-07 04:18:11 PM
That might explain all the foot washing. Splashback is a biatch
 
2013-01-07 04:18:36 PM

downstairs: [www.jimbo.info image 558x220]


i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-07 04:20:18 PM

Hack Patooey: Peaceboy: I dunno, I think if I had the ability to turn water into wine I'd also do something about that emergency roadside diarrhea.

Where do you think all those loaves and fishes came from?


One of my favorite miracle explanations is that Jesus loved to trip on shrooms (how he spoke to god, angels, etc.). The active ingredients in shrooms are excreted in urine which is darkly colored. Jesus created the bread by breaking up dried shrooms (look like bread). Jesus created wine by staining water with his dark urine. Everyone was tripping balls, so they weren't hungry.
 
2013-01-07 04:20:18 PM
A fictional character had the runs.

It's not news, it's CNN.
 
2013-01-07 04:20:47 PM

Parthenogenetic: downstairs: [www.jimbo.info image 558x220]

[i.imgur.com image 600x396]


Meat mingling with the dairy? Oy vey... no wonder he had the runs.
 
2013-01-07 04:20:50 PM
No! Jesus was a Caucasian man that spoke English!
 
2013-01-07 04:20:55 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Johnnie Moore is ... a professor of religion and vice president at Liberty University.

You're asking me to read an awful lot of words about something that happened 2000 years ago when those words come from a guy who is completely unqualified to talk about anything that happened on this planet before he was about five years old...


At least from a religion standpoint, the article is pretty reasonable.
Christian or not (I'm not), most of the story of Jesus is a lot more interesting, poignant, and morally relevant if people consider Jesus as the prosaic, vulnerable human he was, not some snow-white beneficent angel.
 
2013-01-07 04:21:58 PM
If Jesus was gay to, I'd bet he had something that would plug him up nicely.
 
2013-01-07 04:22:11 PM
Of course he was dirty.

When did you last see a clean gardener?
 
2013-01-07 04:22:34 PM
Is this the thread where liberals make fun of Jesus and get themselves put on a list of people going to hell?
 
2013-01-07 04:23:58 PM
So that Christian believes that Jesus could raise Lazarus from the dead and save himself from crucifixion at any point but couldn't cure his own illnesses. I'd say that is blasphemy in the Christian faith.
 
2013-01-07 04:25:05 PM
medievalotaku.files.wordpress.com

"Dude, pull my finger ... No, just do it. C'mon..."

www.miamibeach411.com

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-07 04:25:42 PM
Don't only Catholics believe that Jesus is God? I was raised as a non-denominational Protestant and attended a Baptist church, where it was made clear that he was meant to be the son of God, almost like a prince regent.

Are there Protestant sects who believe the two are synonymous?
 
2013-01-07 04:25:50 PM
Putting aside the rather lurid dysentery angle, the rest of the article demonstrates someone who has actually read the gospels, and not just skimmed over them.

That puts him in the 0.1%.  Based on my experience anyway.
 
2013-01-07 04:26:01 PM
Jesus, Javier or Cesar, whatever their name might be, they all like tacos. It might be from that.
 
2013-01-07 04:26:48 PM

TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.


There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.
 
2013-01-07 04:26:54 PM

TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.


I dunno about that, but Taranis had Gaulstones.
 
2013-01-07 04:29:37 PM

HAMMERTOE: Holy Hershey squirts, Batman!


Jesus Hershey-squirts Christ!

//we now know what the H. stood for.
 
2013-01-07 04:30:54 PM

Brian Ryanberger: Is this the thread where liberals make fun of Jesus and get themselves put on a list of people going to hell?


Is saying he was human "making fun of Jesus"?
Also, if heaven is full of conservatives, count me out. Hell, here I come.

/if I die before Pete Townshend maybe Moon and Entwistle will let me play guitar in their band for a while
 
2013-01-07 04:31:11 PM
That article was SO VERY badly written. I'll not get into a whole "Jesus v. Whatever" argument because there is no need...but look at this, FTA:

The brilliance of Christianity is the image of a God, named Jesus, arrived with dirty hands.

What? OK; so perhaps an editor could have remedied this little overlooking of basic English diction. Then, we are given this:

FTA: "Jesus came in a time period when Greco-Roman gods were housed in gigantic temples and portrayed with superhuman powers and with superhuman physiques. Gods were believed to be far away from people on their mountains or hemmed up in their sanctuaries."

This is completely untrue. Every Roman citizen had at least one temple or shrine in their homes to pay specific regard to individual dieties. The completely...well, made-up idea that Roman and Greek gods and goddesses were viewed as distant is completely ridiculous. I mean, look - there's Mount Olympus right there! Hell, half of the gods can't go a week without molesting a mere mortal! This man is a christer who is twisting history and sociology to fit his own desires.
 
2013-01-07 04:31:53 PM

Peaceboy: I dunno, I think if I had the ability to turn water into wine I'd also do something about that emergency roadside diarrhea.


news flash... that wasn't wine ;-) it _was_ his roadside emergency that colored and flavored that water
 
2013-01-07 04:32:55 PM
The Judeo-Christian God is pretty big on cleanliness, both ritual and physical. The technology of the time obviously limited what one could do compared to today; Jesus had no Sonicare, no antibacterial soap, and (probably) no clue what a loofah was. But he probably still had better personal hygiene than half the Politics tab.
 
2013-01-07 04:33:15 PM

Brian Ryanberger: Is this the thread where liberals make fun of Jesus and get themselves put on a list of people going to hell?


You know who else makes a list?


Santa

i234.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-07 04:33:59 PM

Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.


just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.
 
2013-01-07 04:34:10 PM
"Hey Jesus, c'mon man, we're late."

"Hang on, I'm in the can burnin' a last supper."
 
2013-01-07 04:36:14 PM
"Imodium BCE" just doesn't sound right.
 
2013-01-07 04:38:06 PM
I guess that's what the Bible means when it says, "And it came to pass."
 
2013-01-07 04:40:19 PM

Millennium: The Judeo-Christian God is pretty big on cleanliness, both ritual and physical. The technology of the time obviously limited what one could do compared to today; Jesus had no Sonicare, no antibacterial soap, and (probably) no clue what a loofah was. But he probably still had better personal hygiene than half the Politics tab.


I'm intrigued that water poured through the red heifer's ashes was used in purifying rituals. That sounds close to the process for producing lye.
 
2013-01-07 04:42:48 PM

Wayne 985: Don't only Catholics believe that Jesus is God? I was raised as a non-denominational Protestant and attended a Baptist church, where it was made clear that he was meant to be the son of God, almost like a prince regent.

Are there Protestant sects who believe the two are synonymous?


Uhm...no. That's basically a complete misreading of the doctrine of the Trinity; that's closer to the official dogma of the Mormon churches.

Well, let me rephrase that. Uhm...probably not. A non-denominational Protestant church is probably not part of any larger communion or organization and therefore can form whatever Christology it wants. Baptist churches are generally self-governing, but usually at least affiliated with some sort of larger organization (the Southern Baptist Convention, for example), which does have a statement of faith that disagrees with the statement you made. Of course, just like "non-denominational Protestant" churches, there are churches that call themselves "Baptist" that aren't affiliated with anyone else, and so can have their own confessions.

That being said, it would be unusual - essentially all churches in the world that have well-defined theologies (which you would think would be all of them, but unfortunately that isn't the case) have accepted the doctrine of the Trinity, in which God is one God in three Persons, with one essence and all of which are co-eternal.

/ not Christian
// know more about Christianity and its history than any Christian I know
/// everyone has a hobby
 
2013-01-07 04:43:34 PM

suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.


Please. I'm Jewish and could give a rat's ass whether he actually existed or not, and I definitely don't believe he's divine. But there's no question at all there's a significant amount of historical evidence that a "Jesus" existed, and most historical scholars believe this.

Can anyone prove it? Of course not. But there's way more evidence there than for a historical Robin Hood or Merlin.
 
2013-01-07 04:43:52 PM
"I call this the dirty side of Jesus "

Next he's going to tell us about the softer side of Sears.
 
2013-01-07 04:43:54 PM
I will withhold an opinion until I see what Bevets says.
 
2013-01-07 04:44:35 PM
They say that Jesus left behind him a sense of peace and love. What they forget to mention is that he'd also leave behind a basketball-sized chocolate mudbaby and a destroyed a bathroom.

i49.tinypic.com
 
2013-01-07 04:44:37 PM
Everybody knows that a Paladin gains immunity to disease at level 3.

Jesus had to be at least level 6, because he could clearly cast "Remove Disease" on others.

We know he's a Paladin rather than a Cleric because he showed proficiency with a whip, and Clerics are restricted to simple weapons (which doesn't include whips).
 
2013-01-07 04:46:20 PM

Supes: There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.


This. You don't have to believe everything from the gospels to accept that parts reflect reality. Just like you don't have to be a muslim to accept Muhammad as a historical figure.
 
2013-01-07 04:51:46 PM

MyNameIsMofuga: The best part about hanging around with Jesus when he had dysentery was when he turned the explosive diarrhea into delicious chocolate milk shakes.


Well they need something to wash down those fishes and loaves he served at the Mount of Olives.
 
2013-01-07 04:52:58 PM

ChrisDe: No! Jesus was a Caucasian man that spoke Englishia


that was his rich cousin, Supply Side Jesus
 
2013-01-07 04:53:06 PM

Ilmarinen: Supes: There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

This. You don't have to believe everything from the gospels to accept that parts reflect reality. Just like you don't have to be a muslim to accept Muhammad as a historical figure.


One non-Biblical contemporary reference to him would be nice. And please don't drag Josephus into this as he wasn't even in Jerusalem until 71 AD (and even that one violates Catholic dogma).
 
2013-01-07 04:53:19 PM

maniacbastard: If Jesus was gay to, I'd bet he had something that would plug him up nicely.


The Sacred Butt Plug of Antioch?
 
2013-01-07 04:54:14 PM

FuryOfFirestorm: MyNameIsMofuga: The best part about hanging around with Jesus when he had dysentery was when he turned the explosive diarrhea into delicious chocolate milk shakes.

Well they need something to wash down those fishes and loaves he served at the Mount of Olives.


Olive Loaf?! No wonder he had the runs.
 
2013-01-07 04:56:15 PM

Lord Dimwit: Wayne 985: Don't only Catholics believe that Jesus is God? I was raised as a non-denominational Protestant and attended a Baptist church, where it was made clear that he was meant to be the son of God, almost like a prince regent.

Are there Protestant sects who believe the two are synonymous?

Uhm...no. That's basically a complete misreading of the doctrine of the Trinity; that's closer to the official dogma of the Mormon churches.

Well, let me rephrase that. Uhm...probably not. A non-denominational Protestant church is probably not part of any larger communion or organization and therefore can form whatever Christology it wants. Baptist churches are generally self-governing, but usually at least affiliated with some sort of larger organization (the Southern Baptist Convention, for example), which does have a statement of faith that disagrees with the statement you made. Of course, just like "non-denominational Protestant" churches, there are churches that call themselves "Baptist" that aren't affiliated with anyone else, and so can have their own confessions.

That being said, it would be unusual - essentially all churches in the world that have well-defined theologies (which you would think would be all of them, but unfortunately that isn't the case) have accepted the doctrine of the Trinity, in which God is one God in three Persons, with one essence and all of which are co-eternal.

/ not Christian
// know more about Christianity and its history than any Christian I know
/// everyone has a hobby


This was the question that started me down the road to atheism around 10 or 12.
"So is Jesus god or god's son?"
"Both"
"How can that be?"
"That's a mystery"
"So is god one person or three?"
"Both"
"How can that be?"
"That's a mystery"
"Can you even answer one question about this guy, didn't you have to go to college to be a priest? Or is that a mystery too?"

I wasn't too popular with the priest at the local parish, which looking back was probably a good thing.
 
2013-01-07 04:56:52 PM

MyNameIsMofuga: The best part about hanging around with Jesus when he had dysentery was when he turned the explosive diarrhea into delicious chocolate milk shakes.


Right after he served beer, straight from the tap.
 
2013-01-07 04:58:40 PM

suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.


Jesus existed but he wasn't a man-god. The stories about him were stolen from other gods to give his worldview credence.
 
2013-01-07 04:59:28 PM
For his core 12 disciples, Jesus included a tough-as-nails, bombastic fisherman (Peter), a chief tax collector named Matthew (the most hated popular figure of the time), an eventual traitor who was stealing money out of the offering bucket (Judas), a prolific doubter (Thomas), two jocks nicknamed the "Sons of Thunder" (James and John) and Simon the Zealot, a member of a radical political party which believed in using violence to kick out the Romans.

Jesus was one tough mutha! One hardcore dude, man!
 
2013-01-07 05:00:19 PM

elchip: Everybody knows that a Paladin gains immunity to disease at level 3.

Jesus had to be at least level 6, because he could clearly cast "Remove Disease" on others.

We know he's a Paladin rather than a Cleric because he showed proficiency with a whip, and Clerics are restricted to simple weapons (which doesn't include whips).


I think I love you.
 
2013-01-07 05:01:30 PM

LovingTeacher: Lord Dimwit: Wayne 985: Don't only Catholics believe that Jesus is God? I was raised as a non-denominational Protestant and attended a Baptist church, where it was made clear that he was meant to be the son of God, almost like a prince regent.

Are there Protestant sects who believe the two are synonymous?

Uhm...no. That's basically a complete misreading of the doctrine of the Trinity; that's closer to the official dogma of the Mormon churches.

Well, let me rephrase that. Uhm...probably not. A non-denominational Protestant church is probably not part of any larger communion or organization and therefore can form whatever Christology it wants. Baptist churches are generally self-governing, but usually at least affiliated with some sort of larger organization (the Southern Baptist Convention, for example), which does have a statement of faith that disagrees with the statement you made. Of course, just like "non-denominational Protestant" churches, there are churches that call themselves "Baptist" that aren't affiliated with anyone else, and so can have their own confessions.

That being said, it would be unusual - essentially all churches in the world that have well-defined theologies (which you would think would be all of them, but unfortunately that isn't the case) have accepted the doctrine of the Trinity, in which God is one God in three Persons, with one essence and all of which are co-eternal.

/ not Christian
// know more about Christianity and its history than any Christian I know
/// everyone has a hobby

This was the question that started me down the road to atheism around 10 or 12.
"So is Jesus god or god's son?"
"Both"
"How can that be?"
"That's a mystery"
"So is god one person or three?"
"Both"
"How can that be?"
"That's a mystery"
"Can you even answer one question about this guy, didn't you have to go to college to be a priest? Or is that a mystery too?"

I wasn't too popular with the priest at the local parish, which looking back was probably a good thing.


I laughed in church about the book of joshua where god stopped the sun in the sky.

They didn't like me either.
 
2013-01-07 05:06:11 PM

Supes: suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.

Please. I'm Jewish and could give a rat's ass whether he actually existed or not, and I definitely don't believe he's divine. But there's no question at all there's a significant amount of historical evidence that a "Jesus" existed, and most historical scholars believe this.

Can anyone prove it? Of course not. But there's way more evidence there than for a historical Robin Hood or Merlin.


I've always been interested in the question of whether or not Jesus actually existed. I used to just accept the consensus of scholars that he probably did, but as I've gotten older I've changed my views back and forth several times. First off, most scholars who have even asked the question throughout history are Christian, and so have a bias.

There are no writings from Jesus's life that mention him. Zero. None. None of the Gospels were written during his life or even by anyone who knew him (the attributions of the Gospels to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John doesn't hold up to any kind of literary criticism). The Pauline Epistles, written before the Gospels, were written by Paul, a man who never knew of an Earthly Jesus and certainly never met him. In these letters, Jesus is usually described in metaphorical and spiritual terms.

Non-Christian mentions of Jesus happen well after his death (more than a hundred years) and almost always just repeat things as hearsay or just talk about "Christians" in general. No one doubts Christians in general existed in those times, though.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter to me since I'm a hell-bound heathen, but I'm just saying that there's not as much evidence as everyone seems to think.
 
2013-01-07 05:09:55 PM

Kibbler: the rest of the article demonstrates someone who has actually read the gospels, and not just skimmed over them.

That puts him in the 0.1%.  Based on my experience anyway.


You mean the really, REALLY annoying, Ned-Flanders level people who just won't stop with the godspeak and are allergic to reason? Probably.
 
2013-01-07 05:11:23 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-07 05:11:37 PM

turbocucumber: MyNameIsMofuga: The best part about hanging around with Jesus when he had dysentery was when he turned the explosive diarrhea into delicious chocolate milk shakes.

Right after he served beer, straight from the tap.



And that, my children, is where Budweiser comes from.
 
2013-01-07 05:11:51 PM

Brian Ryanberger: Is this the thread where liberals make fun of Jesus and get themselves put on a list of people going to hell?


No, this is the thread where we make fun of Jesus with no consequences whatsoever.
 
2013-01-07 05:12:26 PM
imageshack.us


Despite all the renown and the adulation, we have no idea what in hell the Jesus actually looked like. For example, the guy on the left is Italian football darling, Francesco Totti. The guy on right ... is a complete and utter figment of the imagination of the Roman Catholic Church.
 
2013-01-07 05:12:56 PM

downstairs: [www.jimbo.info image 558x220]


Parthenogenetic: downstairs: [www.jimbo.info image 558x220]

[i.imgur.com image 600x396]


You magnificent bastards! I used to LOVE Oregon Trail! Ahh the farking fourth grade. That's when life was easy.

/wipes away tear
 
2013-01-07 05:13:02 PM

elchip: Everybody knows that a Paladin gains immunity to disease at level 3.

Jesus had to be at least level 6, because he could clearly cast "Remove Disease" on others.

We know he's a Paladin rather than a Cleric because he showed proficiency with a whip, and Clerics are restricted to simple weapons (which doesn't include whips).


Did you forget that Jesus raised several people from death? No Paladin would be able to do that, because Raise Dead is not on the Paladin spell list.

When Jesus wielded the whip, he accepted the -4 penalty to hit because of His lack of the exotic weapon proficiency. The money changers would have had a low Armor Class. Jesus would have a reasonably good Base Attack Bonus as a high-level cleric, and He would have been able to cast some decent attack buffs on Himself.
 
2013-01-07 05:13:45 PM
Me and jesus have something in common
 
2013-01-07 05:14:01 PM

Parthenogenetic: elchip: Everybody knows that a Paladin gains immunity to disease at level 3.

Jesus had to be at least level 6, because he could clearly cast "Remove Disease" on others.

We know he's a Paladin rather than a Cleric because he showed proficiency with a whip, and Clerics are restricted to simple weapons (which doesn't include whips).

Did you forget that Jesus raised several people from death? No Paladin would be able to do that, because Raise Dead is not on the Paladin spell list.

When Jesus wielded the whip, he accepted the -4 penalty to hit because of His lack of the exotic weapon proficiency. The money changers would have had a low Armor Class. Jesus would have a reasonably good Base Attack Bonus as a high-level cleric, and He would have been able to cast some decent attack buffs on Himself.


THAC0 is heretical. Invented by Satan.
 
2013-01-07 05:15:17 PM
Jesus? A god?

Not hardly, just some crazy myth a bunch of stupid selfish bastards belief in and completely misunderstand. It would not be so bad if Christians were really Christ like, but they are more like Mohammad then Christ.
 
2013-01-07 05:16:27 PM

Lord Dimwit: I've always been interested in the question of whether or not Jesus actually existed. I used to just accept the consensus of scholars that he probably did, but as I've gotten older I've changed my views back and forth several times. First off, most scholars who have even asked the question throughout history are Christian, and so have a bias.

There are no writings from Jesus's life that mention him. Zero. None. None of the Gospels were written during his life or even by anyone who knew him (the attributions of the Gospels to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John doesn't hold up to any kind of literary criticism). The Pauline Epistles, written before the Gospels, were written by Paul, a man who never knew of an Earthly Jesus and certainly never met him. In these letters, Jesus is usually described in metaphorical and spiritual terms.

Non-Christian mentions of Jesus happen well after his death (more than a hundred years) and almost always just repeat things as hearsay or just talk about "Christians" in general. No one doubts Christians in general existed in those times, though.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter to me since I'm a hell-bound heathen, but I'm just saying that there's not as much evidence as everyone seems to think.


I'm inclined to think he did. "Arguments from silence" (i.e., arguments he did not due to lack of contemporary sources) by their very nature can not be definitive, especially given what a small percentage of historical texts survive from that time period.

The variety and abundance of non-Christians sources with nothing to gain from mentioning Jesus makes me think he did exist, though was certainly a relatively minor historical footnote to them. But anyway, obviously there's no way to know for sure one way or another.
 
2013-01-07 05:17:08 PM
i.imgur.com

Also, for you D&D old-schoolers:

i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-07 05:17:27 PM

suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.


Cite your evidence that Jesus didn't exist. You seem pretty well convinced he didn't.

To save time, the Bible, both those parts written by the ancient Hebrews and those written by later writers during the Roman era, contains a ton of historical information that is easily verified by secondary sources and archeological evidence. Of course there is allegory and things that are probably "amplified" depending upon your beliefs. But on balance, there's enough there that can be verified that you must take it into account when studying or writing about ancient Middle Eastern history.

If Jesus is a conglomeration of different prophets that arose in the days before the Jewish revolt, then there would have been some sort of evidence that would have been unearthed by now. That hasn't happened. You can talk about secret Vatican documents or Imperial suppression of the Gnostics all you want, but we're still left with a guy that several people who knew him decided that his teachings were important enough that they wanted to write about them and they suffered terribly for it.
 
2013-01-07 05:18:47 PM

F22raptom: Me and jesus have something in common


Your boss is working you to death?
 
2013-01-07 05:19:38 PM

give me doughnuts:
One non-Biblical contemporary reference to him would be nice. And please don't drag Josephus into this as he wasn't even in Jerusalem until 71 AD (and even that one violates Catholic dogma).


What the heck does Catholic dogma have to do with anything? And why do references have to be non-Biblical? If you've got a text from that era, I don't care whether you found it in a latrine or in a collection of holy myths.
Maybe there are no documents about Paul the Apostle outside the NT either, but he sure as hell was real.

Once more, with feeling: you don't have to be a christian to accept Jesus as historical.

/also, again, the Muhammad example
 
2013-01-07 05:20:07 PM

elchip: Everybody knows that a Paladin gains immunity to disease at level 3.

Jesus had to be at least level 6, because he could clearly cast "Remove Disease" on others.

We know he's a Paladin rather than a Cleric because he showed proficiency with a whip, and Clerics are restricted to simple weapons (which doesn't include whips).


You are aware, of course, that a cleric has access to a whip if he worships Calistria.
 
2013-01-07 05:20:23 PM

suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.


Or even Socrates or Epictetus. With the destruction of the the Jewish birth records during the Roman sacking of Jerusalem, you've lost the chance to find 'historical Jesus'. Whether or not you include Josephus, you're left with about 130 books and some associated letters by people that claimed to know him or who claimed to interview those that did. Most of those are pretty weird.

But if you're going to say he never existed, how far back do you start eliminating church figures? James was the first bishop of Jerusalem and was at least mentioned by Josephus. What was before him?

Probably a more defensible position would be historical Jesus: 'A social activist that had his message corrupted.'

/"Well, obviously it's not meant to be taken literally; it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products. "
//Christian
 
2013-01-07 05:21:08 PM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: I guess that's what the Bible means when it says, "And it came to pass."


Also, He'll come in the name of the lord!
 
2013-01-07 05:23:04 PM
Non-sequiter. Being "fully man" doesn't mean experiencing each possible biological complication a human might be subject to experience. If I believe Jesus was fully man, there is no logical chain of reasoning holding me to other beliefs regarding his humanity. It is no rational contradiction to believe Jesus did not have dysentery in his life time. To wit, I have yet to succumb to gingivitis, as often humans do. Does that make me not human?
 
2013-01-07 05:23:07 PM
Supes

TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.


There in NO evidence that Jesus ever existed. Stories in the bible are all hearsay. There is no a single nonbiblical source that mentions him. So , no you can't make a credible argument that he existed. On the other hand, there are statues of Zeus.
 
2013-01-07 05:24:06 PM
Did he also have Industrial Disease?
 
2013-01-07 05:24:12 PM

Ilmarinen: Supes: There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

This. You don't have to believe everything from the gospels to accept that parts reflect reality. Just like you don't have to be a muslim to accept Muhammad as a historical figure.


Read more about it.
 
2013-01-07 05:26:00 PM
You know they didn't have toilet paper then.

/Don't shake his left hand...
 
2013-01-07 05:27:12 PM

TwilightZone: There in NO evidence that Jesus ever existed. Stories in the bible are all hearsay. There is no a single nonbiblical source that mentions him. So , no you can't make a credible argument that he existed. On the other hand, there are statues of Zeus.


Ignoring the obvious sarcasm in your response, hearsay is actually a type of evidence. It may not admissible in American courts, but that's not relevant to historical research.
 
2013-01-07 05:28:09 PM

xkillyourfacex: Non-sequiter. Being "fully man" doesn't mean experiencing each possible biological complication a human might be subject to experience. If I believe Jesus was fully man, there is no logical chain of reasoning holding me to other beliefs regarding his humanity. It is no rational contradiction to believe Jesus did not have dysentery in his life time. To wit, I have yet to succumb to gingivitis, as often humans do. Does that make me not human?


While God was willing to allow His only begotten Son to be tortured to death and spend several days in Hell... He did not require that Jesus get married!

Think about that!

/married
 
2013-01-07 05:28:55 PM

Scaevola: Ilmarinen: Supes: There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

This. You don't have to believe everything from the gospels to accept that parts reflect reality. Just like you don't have to be a muslim to accept Muhammad as a historical figure.

Read more about it.


True, although there are third-party mentions of Mohammad and his doings from contemporaries, unlike Jesus.
 
2013-01-07 05:30:22 PM

hdhale: suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.

Cite your evidence that Jesus didn't exist. You seem pretty well convinced he didn't.

To save time, the Bible, both those parts written by the ancient Hebrews and those written by later writers during the Roman era, contains a ton of historical information that is easily verified by secondary sources and archeological evidence. Of course there is allegory and things that are probably "amplified" depending upon your beliefs. But on balance, there's enough there that can be verified that you must take it into account when studying or writing about ancient Middle Eastern history.

If Jesus is a conglomeration of different prophets that arose in the days before the Jewish revolt, then there would have been some sort of evidence that would have been unearthed by now. That hasn't happened. You can talk about secret Vatican documents or Imperial suppression of the Gnostics all you want, but we're still left with a guy that several people who knew him decided that his teachings were important enough that they wanted to write about them and they suffered terribly for it.


There is no other written evidence of a historical Jesus, except those texts supposedly written by Jesus himself. There is no evidence that Pontious Pilot ever executed a man named Jesus. There is not a single contemporary writing that even mentions Jesus. None, zilch, zero, zip, nada, nothing.

The four canonical Gospels of the bible did not come from the "original" authors themselves, but are works derived from early Christian founders. The gospel of Mark comes from around 70 CE and that is that any gospel can be dated.

So, in short you can believe in Jesus of Nazzereth if you want, but history does not weigh in favor of there ever being a single person called Jesus of Nazzereth or Jesus the son of god.
 
2013-01-07 05:30:29 PM

TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.


www.celebritypitch.com
 
2013-01-07 05:32:37 PM

Lord Dimwit: Parthenogenetic: elchip: and Clerics are restricted to simple weapons (which doesn't include whips).



First off, WTF are you talking about

Second off, never played D&D but how is a whip not included on a simple items list?
 
2013-01-07 05:34:48 PM
So what, just get a couple of the jumbo 42-lb bags of Ever Clean extra strength unscented, dump them out at the base of the crucifix... Give one of the centurions, Longinus or one of his friends or whoever, a heavy-duty litter scoop and an empty sack. Problem solved.
 
2013-01-07 05:38:37 PM

Heathen: Second off, never played D&D but how is a whip not included on a simple items list?


Ever used a whip?  It's not a Simple Weapon.
 
2013-01-07 05:40:18 PM
Lord Dimwit

Supes: suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.

Please. I'm Jewish and could give a rat's ass whether he actually existed or not, and I definitely don't believe he's divine. But there's no question at all there's a significant amount of historical evidence that a "Jesus" existed, and most historical scholars believe this.

Can anyone prove it? Of course not. But there's way more evidence there than for a historical Robin Hood or Merlin.

I've always been interested in the question of whether or not Jesus actually existed. I used to just accept the consensus of scholars that he probably did, but as I've gotten older I've changed my views back and forth several times. First off, most scholars who have even asked the question throughout history are Christian, and so have a bias.

There are no writings from Jesus's life that mention him. Zero. None. None of the Gospels were written during his life or even by anyone who knew him (the attributions of the Gospels to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John doesn't hold up to any kind of literary criticism). The Pauline Epistles, written before the Gospels, were written by Paul, a man who never knew of an Earthly Jesus and certainly never met him. In these letters, Jesus is usually described in metaphorical and spiritual terms.

Non-Christian mentions of Jesus happen well after his death (more than a hundred years) and almost always just repeat things as hearsay or just talk about "Christians" in general. No one doubts Christians in general existed in those times, though.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter to me since I'm a hell-bound heathen, but I'm just saying that there's not as much evidence as everyone seems to think.


Only chistians go to hell. Heathens get Valhalla.
 
2013-01-07 05:43:02 PM

Heathen: Lord Dimwit: Parthenogenetic: elchip: and Clerics are restricted to simple weapons (which doesn't include whips).

First off, WTF are you talking about

Second off, never played D&D but how is a whip not included on a simple items list?


In D&D v3 and 3.5, weapons are sorted into three basic categories: simple, martial, and exotic. Each list has weapons that are subcategorized as light, one-handed, two-handed, and ranged.

Druids, monks, and wizards have a limited list of weapons with which they are automatically proficient.

All other base classes have proficiency with simple weapons.

Fighters, paladins, rangers, and barbarians are proficient with simple and martial weapons.

Whips are categorized as exotic weapons.

SRD weapon table
 
2013-01-07 05:46:01 PM

Ilmarinen: /if I die before Pete Townshend maybe Moon and Entwistle will let me play guitar in their band for a while


Learn My Wife first. Doesn't get much better than that.
 
2013-01-07 05:46:15 PM

Dire: So what, just get a couple of the jumbo 42-lb bags of Ever Clean extra strength unscented, dump them out at the base of the crucifix... Give one of the centurions, Longinus or one of his friends or whoever, a heavy-duty litter scoop and an empty sack. Problem solved.


Pour some Sodium polyacrylate at the base and have a snow day.
 
2013-01-07 05:48:57 PM
Beautifully written.
 
2013-01-07 05:49:33 PM

Slaves2Darkness: hdhale: suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

...snip... except those texts supposedly written by Jesus himself...snip...


Am curious, no snark really, what texts written by Jesus himself? Am not aware of any.
 
2013-01-07 05:52:35 PM

Felix_T_Cat: Slaves2Darkness: hdhale: suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

...snip... except those texts supposedly written by Jesus himself...snip...

Am curious, no snark really, what texts written by Jesus himself? Am not aware of any.


Aside from some apocrypha, there aren't any. He's incorrect on that front. I think maybe what he was going for was "except those texts supposedly written by people who had a vested interest in having Jesus exist".
 
2013-01-07 05:52:57 PM

Wayne 985: Don't only Catholics believe that Jesus is God? I was raised as a non-denominational Protestant and attended a Baptist church, where it was made clear that he was meant to be the son of God, almost like a prince regent.

Are there Protestant sects who believe the two are synonymous?


All of them do, except for the cults like JW. Baptists definitely believe that he was God ("Before Isaiah was, I AM"). In fact, the deity of Christ is one of the few non-negotiable doctrines. We can disagree on infant baptism and it doesn't matter, but the deity of Christ is CENTRAL to Christianity.
 
2013-01-07 05:53:15 PM

Badgers: [i.imgur.com image 500x374]


Ok that gave me the holy chunky watery wormy LOLs.
 
2013-01-07 05:58:57 PM

Slaves2Darkness: hdhale: suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.

Cite your evidence that Jesus didn't exist. You seem pretty well convinced he didn't.

To save time, the Bible, both those parts written by the ancient Hebrews and those written by later writers during the Roman era, contains a ton of historical information that is easily verified by secondary sources and archeological evidence. Of course there is allegory and things that are probably "amplified" depending upon your beliefs. But on balance, there's enough there that can be verified that you must take it into account when studying or writing about ancient Middle Eastern history.

If Jesus is a conglomeration of different prophets that arose in the days before the Jewish revolt, then there would have been some sort of evidence that would have been unearthed by now. That hasn't happened. You can talk about secret Vatican documents or Imperial suppression of the Gnostics all you want, but we're still left with a guy that several people who knew him decided that his teachings were important enough that they wanted to write about them and they suffered terribly for it.

There is no other written evidence of a historical Jesus, except those texts supposedly written by Jesus himself. There is no evidence that Pontious Pilot ever executed a man named Jesus. There is not a single contemporary writing that even mentions Jesus. None, zilch, zero, zip, nada, nothing.

The four canonical Gospels of the bible did not come from the "original" authors themselves, but are works derived from early Christian founders. The gospel of Mark comes from around 70 CE and that is that any gospel ...



Didn't the Jewish historian Josephus ben Matthia write of Jesus?
 
2013-01-07 06:00:16 PM
Fundys of any stripe are bad, but holy crap internet atheists come off as some of the most smug and condescending people i think i could meet.

Organized religion sucks, but nobody likes a smarty pants.
 
2013-01-07 06:00:44 PM

Felix_T_Cat: Slaves2Darkness: hdhale: suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

...snip... except those texts supposedly written by Jesus himself...snip...

Am curious, no snark really, what texts written by Jesus himself? Am not aware of any.


"Having Fun with FORTRAN: 44 Easy Projects to Master Today's Computing"
 
2013-01-07 06:00:57 PM

Bermuda59: Did he also have Industrial Disease?


One of the Jesuses (Jesii?) certainly did.
 
2013-01-07 06:03:08 PM
Supes

TwilightZone: There in NO evidence that Jesus ever existed. Stories in the bible are all hearsay. There is no a single nonbiblical source that mentions him. So , no you can't make a credible argument that he existed. On the other hand, there are statues of Zeus.

Ignoring the obvious sarcasm in your response, hearsay is actually a type of evidence. It may not admissible in American courts, but that's not relevant to historical research.


You can't ignore what isn't there. I wasn't being sarcastic. Hearsay isn't evidence. Not in American courts or science or historical research or any other field.

Using evidence from the Iliad, Henrich Schliemann excavated the ruins of Troy. The Iliad mentions a pantheon of Gods and Goddesses. Since Troy existed, the Greek gods and goddesses must exist. This proves the bibles's claim of monotheism is false. If that part is false, the whole book is suspect. You might think there's a flaw in my logic. You'd be right. If it doesn't work to prove Appollo is real; don't work for any biblical character whatsoever. Just because England is real doesn't mean Harry Potter is.
 
2013-01-07 06:03:13 PM

TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.


Yes, because you were there and saw it all happen! Or rather, not happen!
 
2013-01-07 06:03:31 PM
What evidence is there that Jesus existed? Besides being the fulcrum upon which all of human history is divided.
 
2013-01-07 06:06:23 PM
www.realscience.us

/am I the first?
//really?
 
2013-01-07 06:07:13 PM

big_hed: Slaves2Darkness: hdhale: suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.

Cite your evidence that Jesus didn't exist. You seem pretty well convinced he didn't.

To save time, the Bible, both those parts written by the ancient Hebrews and those written by later writers during the Roman era, contains a ton of historical information that is easily verified by secondary sources and archeological evidence. Of course there is allegory and things that are probably "amplified" depending upon your beliefs. But on balance, there's enough there that can be verified that you must take it into account when studying or writing about ancient Middle Eastern history.

If Jesus is a conglomeration of different prophets that arose in the days before the Jewish revolt, then there would have been some sort of evidence that would have been unearthed by now. That hasn't happened. You can talk about secret Vatican documents or Imperial suppression of the Gnostics all you want, but we're still left with a guy that several people who knew him decided that his teachings were important enough that they wanted to write about them and they suffered terribly for it.

There is no other written evidence of a historical Jesus, except those texts supposedly written by Jesus himself. There is no evidence that Pontious Pilot ever executed a man named Jesus. There is not a single contemporary writing that even mentions Jesus. None, zilch, zero, zip, nada, nothing.

The four canonical Gospels of the bible did not come from the "original" authors themselves, but are works derived from early Christian founders. The gospel of Mark comes from around 70 CE and that is ...


Josephus did mention Jesus, at least once. The most controversial mention was basically a retelling of the Crucifixion and is of disputed authenticity. The other is talking about the stoning death of James, whom Josephus calls "brother of Jesus, who was called Christ". This still isn't contemporary evidence, though, since the stoning of James had happened about thirty years before the time of Josephus' writing, and the death of Jesus thirty years before that, and neither were witnessed by Josephus (I think).

Either way, the writings of Josephus are pretty much the only reason why I go back and forth, as opposed to rejecting the historicity of Jesus entirely.
 
2013-01-07 06:10:26 PM

STRYPERSWINE: What evidence is there that Jesus existed? Besides being the fulcrum upon which all of human history is divided.


By that argument, Prometheus existed too, as did (and more importantly to me) Ninkasi.
 
2013-01-07 06:15:27 PM

hdhale: suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.

Cite your evidence that Jesus didn't exist. You seem pretty well convinced he didn't.

To save time, the Bible, both those parts written by the ancient Hebrews and those written by later writers during the Roman era, contains a ton of historical information that is easily verified by secondary sources and archeological evidence. Of course there is allegory and things that are probably "amplified" depending upon your beliefs. But on balance, there's enough there that can be verified that you must take it into account when studying or writing about ancient Middle Eastern history.

If Jesus is a conglomeration of different prophets that arose in the days before the Jewish revolt, then there would have been some sort of evidence that would have been unearthed by now. That hasn't happened. You can talk about secret Vatican documents or Imperial suppression of the Gnostics all you want, but we're still left with a guy that several people who knew him decided that his teachings were important enough that they wanted to write about them and they suffered terribly for it.


So Zeus is real? Because there is a LOT of information in the Greek mythological stories that can be verified as having existed or do exist such as Mount Olympus!
 
2013-01-07 06:18:29 PM

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: elchip: Everybody knows that a Paladin gains immunity to disease at level 3.

Jesus had to be at least level 6, because he could clearly cast "Remove Disease" on others.

We know he's a Paladin rather than a Cleric because he showed proficiency with a whip, and Clerics are restricted to simple weapons (which doesn't include whips).

You are aware, of course, that a cleric has access to a whip if he worships Calistria.


Well crap. This, combined with the fact that Raise Dead isn't on the Paladin spells list, seems to be irritable evidence that Jesus was at least a Level 9 cleric.

Except, I think it's more likely that he was a cleric of Loviatar, the Forgotten Realms deity of pain (whose clerics get proficiency in whips and scourges). It explains why he's got such a hard-on for subjecting people to eternal torment.
 
2013-01-07 06:18:59 PM

big_hed: Didn't the Jewish historian Josephus ben Matthia write of Jesus?


No. Interpolation. It was inserted in by another writer long afterwards. Study it out.
 
2013-01-07 06:19:21 PM

ChrisDe: No! Jesus was a Caucasian man that spoke English!


Funny we were always taught he was a Jew that spoke Hebrew.
 
2013-01-07 06:19:44 PM

Lord Dimwit: The Pauline Epistles, written before the Gospels, were written by Paul, a man who never knew of an Earthly Jesus and certainly never met him. In these letters, Jesus is usually described in metaphorical and spiritual terms.


Wasn't Paul the one who belonged to the opposing party then was rescued in the desert? The Jesus people saved him and he couldn't understand why then converted. His sect tried to kill him, eventually succeeding, but he did his writings before they whacked him. And yeah, he never met The Man.

Been a long time since I read that in a book I have since lost.
 
2013-01-07 06:19:52 PM

elchip: Louisiana_Sitar_Club: elchip: Everybody knows that a Paladin gains immunity to disease at level 3.

Jesus had to be at least level 6, because he could clearly cast "Remove Disease" on others.

We know he's a Paladin rather than a Cleric because he showed proficiency with a whip, and Clerics are restricted to simple weapons (which doesn't include whips).

You are aware, of course, that a cleric has access to a whip if he worships Calistria.

Well crap. This, combined with the fact that Raise Dead isn't on the Paladin spells list, seems to be irritable evidence that Jesus was at least a Level 9 cleric.

Except, I think it's more likely that he was a cleric of Loviatar, the Forgotten Realms deity of pain (whose clerics get proficiency in whips and scourges). It explains why he's got such a hard-on for subjecting people to eternal torment.


Irrefutable evidence, not irritable evidence. Stupid Swype.
 
2013-01-07 06:22:27 PM
Sorry to do a dump and run... I used to think there was no evidence of Christ, then someone posted a link to Wikipedia... Roman Senator Tacitus documented Pontius Pilate putting hurtin' on some dude named Christus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ
 
2013-01-07 06:23:10 PM

TwilightZone: Supes

TwilightZone: There in NO evidence that Jesus ever existed. Stories in the bible are all hearsay. There is no a single nonbiblical source that mentions him. So , no you can't make a credible argument that he existed. On the other hand, there are statues of Zeus.

Ignoring the obvious sarcasm in your response, hearsay is actually a type of evidence. It may not admissible in American courts, but that's not relevant to historical research.

You can't ignore what isn't there. I wasn't being sarcastic. Hearsay isn't evidence. Not in American courts or science or historical research or any other field.

Using evidence from the Iliad, Henrich Schliemann excavated the ruins of Troy. The Iliad mentions a pantheon of Gods and Goddesses. Since Troy existed, the Greek gods and goddesses must exist. This proves the bibles's claim of monotheism is false. If that part is false, the whole book is suspect. You might think there's a flaw in my logic. You'd be right. If it doesn't work to prove Appollo is real; don't work for any biblical character whatsoever. Just because England is real doesn't mean Harry Potter is.


Seriously, I understand the logical fallacy you've been trying to demonstrate, and I generally agree. But there's really no question hearsay is, in it's literal definition, a type of evidence, That's why it's frequently called "hearsay evidence."

It's not a good kind of evidence, it can easily be refuted by physical evidence, it's not admissible in most legal systems around the world (and for very good reason) but it IS evidence. Historical evidence is largely composed of hearsay. There's really nothing wrong with that..
 
2013-01-07 06:24:41 PM

StudlyDoRight: Sorry to do a dump and run... I used to think there was no evidence of Christ, then someone posted a link to Wikipedia... Roman Senator Tacitus documented Pontius Pilate putting hurtin' on some dude named Christus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ


You do know that Jesus was a common name for that time period and area?
 
2013-01-07 06:27:40 PM
jesus-withyoualways.com

"Hey, you better pull over here, or I'm gonna squirt butt lava in your cab"
"That's like the third time in an hour- bro, are you even bringing gas money on this trip?"
 
2013-01-07 06:32:08 PM

Princess Ryans Knickers: StudlyDoRight: Sorry to do a dump and run... I used to think there was no evidence of Christ, then someone posted a link to Wikipedia... Roman Senator Tacitus documented Pontius Pilate putting hurtin' on some dude named Christus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ

You do know that Jesus was a common name for that time period and area?


"Yes?"

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-01-07 06:36:27 PM
 
2013-01-07 06:40:15 PM

PapaChester: Was Japanese.


Well, considering TFA combined with a recent fan-made shoot-em-up game that recreated Jesus as a lolita in a white dress, I think I know what's going to be a hot topic at this year's Comic Market...
 
2013-01-07 06:40:58 PM

Supes: suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.

Please. I'm Jewish and could give a rat's ass whether he actually existed or not, and I definitely don't believe he's divine. But there's no question at all there's a significant amount of historical evidence that a "Jesus" existed, and most historical scholars believe this.

Can anyone prove it? Of course not. But there's way more evidence there than for a historical Robin Hood or Merlin.


loosen up the Yarmulke cause it's keeping the blood from getting to your brain. there is absolutely no concrete evidence that jesus existed outside of a mexican(or some other latin) soccer team.

/JESUS SAVES!!! NO GOAL! NO GOAL!
 
2013-01-07 06:44:16 PM
Supes
Seriously, I understand the logical fallacy you've been trying to demonstrate, and I generally agree. But there's really no question hearsay is, in it's literal definition, a type of evidence, That's why it's frequently called "hearsay evidence."

It's not a good kind of evidence, it can easily be refuted by physical evidence, it's not admissible in most legal systems around the world (and for very good reason) but it IS evidence. Historical evidence is largely composed of hearsay. There's really nothing wrong with that..


Hearsay is only evidence that others heard the story. I've heard of Harry Potter so he must be real. Historical evidence is composed of eyewitness reports and physical evidence. Are you sure you understand the definiton of hearsay?
 
2013-01-07 06:45:23 PM

big_hed: Slaves2Darkness: hdhale: suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.

There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than an historical Zeus... Whether he was divine or not, you can make a credible argument an individual named Jesus existed.

just like you can prove that robin hood existed and merlin?

oh wait... no, no you can't.

Cite your evidence that Jesus didn't exist. You seem pretty well convinced he didn't.

To save time, the Bible, both those parts written by the ancient Hebrews and those written by later writers during the Roman era, contains a ton of historical information that is easily verified by secondary sources and archeological evidence. Of course there is allegory and things that are probably "amplified" depending upon your beliefs. But on balance, there's enough there that can be verified that you must take it into account when studying or writing about ancient Middle Eastern history.

If Jesus is a conglomeration of different prophets that arose in the days before the Jewish revolt, then there would have been some sort of evidence that would have been unearthed by now. That hasn't happened. You can talk about secret Vatican documents or Imperial suppression of the Gnostics all you want, but we're still left with a guy that several people who knew him decided that his teachings were important enough that they wanted to write about them and they suffered terribly for it.

There is no other written evidence of a historical Jesus, except those texts supposedly written by Jesus himself. There is no evidence that Pontious Pilot ever executed a man named Jesus. There is not a single contemporary writing that even mentions Jesus. None, zilch, zero, zip, nada, nothing.

The four canonical Gospels of the bible did not come from the "original" authors themselves, but are works derived from early Christian founders. The gospel of Mark comes from around 70 CE and that is ...


well the great Walter Crane wrote of Robin Hood, but that doesn't make him anymore real.
 
2013-01-07 06:47:39 PM

Supes: TwilightZone: Supes

TwilightZone: There in NO evidence that Jesus ever existed. Stories in the bible are all hearsay. There is no a single nonbiblical source that mentions him. So , no you can't make a credible argument that he existed. On the other hand, there are statues of Zeus.

Ignoring the obvious sarcasm in your response, hearsay is actually a type of evidence. It may not admissible in American courts, but that's not relevant to historical research.

You can't ignore what isn't there. I wasn't being sarcastic. Hearsay isn't evidence. Not in American courts or science or historical research or any other field.

Using evidence from the Iliad, Henrich Schliemann excavated the ruins of Troy. The Iliad mentions a pantheon of Gods and Goddesses. Since Troy existed, the Greek gods and goddesses must exist. This proves the bibles's claim of monotheism is false. If that part is false, the whole book is suspect. You might think there's a flaw in my logic. You'd be right. If it doesn't work to prove Appollo is real; don't work for any biblical character whatsoever. Just because England is real doesn't mean Harry Potter is.

Seriously, I understand the logical fallacy you've been trying to demonstrate, and I generally agree. But there's really no question hearsay is, in it's literal definition, a type of evidence, That's why it's frequently called "hearsay evidence."

It's not a good kind of evidence, it can easily be refuted by physical evidence, it's not admissible in most legal systems around the world (and for very good reason) but it IS evidence. Historical evidence is largely composed of hearsay. There's really nothing wrong with that..


actually.... considering hearsay is not permitted as testimony in most trials, i would say there is something wrong with that.
 
2013-01-07 06:48:24 PM

Lord Dimwit: big_hed: Slaves2Darkness: hdhale: suthrnrunt: Supes: TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.
...


Yup, you'll find references in Josephus to James, Jesus and John the Baptist. Josephus was a historian. Jewish, but at times working with Greek or Roman backing. There was text added later to these, but scholars think they have reduced the references back to the original. I don't have the 44 volume definitive translation, but my 'good enough' translation has the 3 entries. That still doesn't tell us who or what Josephus' sources were. For a non christian Jew to include James and Jesus is just pretty odd. Especially as the Jesus reference is so damning. Here it is out of Wiki:

"Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day."

Josephus actually calling him the Christ is mind blowingly odd.
 
2013-01-07 06:48:30 PM
weknowmemes.com
 
2013-01-07 06:50:39 PM
Paging Dr. Jones. Dr. Jones. Please pick up the white courtesy phone.
 
2013-01-07 06:54:02 PM
it'd be easier to prove your average aspca mutt's great great grandparent then provide definitive existence of any single non king from millennia ago before widespread writing or even distinctly-identifying names. it's a mighty high bar to set.

except for his birth clearly shoehorning in similar local legends, jesus's life reads more stream-of-consciousness then it does a planned script. he espouses a morality, but it does read to me like a history, complete with unfulfilled wishes and realpolitik. his social impact looms over history like a black hole's x-rays.
 
2013-01-07 06:54:37 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: You're asking me to read an awful lot of words about something that happened 2000 years ago when those words come from a guy who is completely unqualified to talk about anything that happened on this planet before he was about five years old...


No, it's worse than that.
They're asking you to read an fluff opinion piece on literalist translation of a mythological allegory from that guy.
 
2013-01-07 07:00:14 PM
Beware the Golgothan!
 
2013-01-07 07:02:15 PM
How do you know he's Jesus?

Because he's not covered in shiat.
 
2013-01-07 07:07:41 PM
The idea of "Jesus" being real is so ingrained by the Christian literalists (I.E. Roman church and its offspring) that even many atheists still believe that Jesus probably existed. There is still no evidence he did.

His very story is so closely aligned with the stories of multiple pagan gods before him, it should leave no doubt as to the origin of the Jesus mythos.
Anyone interested in this should read The Jesus Mysteries or Jesus and the Lost Goddess.
 
2013-01-07 07:11:45 PM

Oznog: [jesus-withyoualways.com image 850x637]

"Hey, you better pull over here, or I'm gonna squirt butt lava in your cab"
"That's like the third time in an hour- bro, are you even bringing gas money on this trip?"


It looks more like the mortal is the one having gastrointestinal distress in that picture. He also looks sort of like Mitt Romney.
 
2013-01-07 07:17:55 PM
Wow, is this the kind of greenlight Drew entrusts the "modmins" to approve? Is it appease the God-haters day again?

- 1 submitter

- 1 x 103 moderator

+ 1 Satan
 
2013-01-07 07:35:12 PM

TwilightZone: Hearsay is only evidence that others heard the story. I've heard of Harry Potter so he must be real. Historical evidence is composed of eyewitness reports and physical evidence. Are you sure you understand the definiton of hearsay?


A significant amount of evidence we have regarding the existence of MANY historical figures comes from the writings of numerous historians from centuries ago. Here's a list of some of those historians and chroniclers of the ancient world.

Did these ancient historians personally experience the stories they told? By and large, no they did not. Therefore it is hearsay. But it's still a valuable historical research tool, and for many individuals/events, the only information we have.
 
2013-01-07 07:36:25 PM

Stinkyy: Wow, is this the kind of greenlight Drew entrusts the "modmins" to approve? Is it appease the God-haters day again?

- 1 submitter

- 1 x 103 moderator

+ 1 Satan


Life is much better when you're not afraid of the boogeyman.

Off to hate me some unicorns.
 
2013-01-07 07:38:43 PM
i1.ytimg.com
 
2013-01-07 07:43:53 PM

TwilightZone: Supes

TwilightZone: There in NO evidence that Jesus ever existed. Stories in the bible are all hearsay. There is no a single nonbiblical source that mentions him. So , no you can't make a credible argument that he existed. On the other hand, there are statues of Zeus.

Ignoring the obvious sarcasm in your response, hearsay is actually a type of evidence. It may not admissible in American courts, but that's not relevant to historical research.

You can't ignore what isn't there. I wasn't being sarcastic. Hearsay isn't evidence. Not in American courts or science or historical research or any other field.

Using evidence from the Iliad, Henrich Schliemann excavated the ruins of Troy. The Iliad mentions a pantheon of Gods and Goddesses. Since Troy existed, the Greek gods and goddesses must exist. This proves the bibles's claim of monotheism is false. If that part is false, the whole book is suspect. You might think there's a flaw in my logic. You'd be right. If it doesn't work to prove Appollo is real; don't work for any biblical character whatsoever. Just because England is real doesn't mean Harry Potter is.


Bzzzz. Fallacy of composition.

Just because the Illiad was right/useful for determining the location of Troy, does not automatically mean that it was right about everything.

And you were doing so well before that.

/Not Christian
//I do believe in Jesus; he sat two cubes down from me, and DJs on the weekends.
 
2013-01-07 07:43:56 PM

Bacontastesgood: Kibbler: the rest of the article demonstrates someone who has actually read the gospels, and not just skimmed over them.

That puts him in the 0.1%.  Based on my experience anyway.

You mean the really, REALLY annoying, Ned-Flanders level people who just won't stop with the godspeak and are allergic to reason? Probably.


No, I meant people who have carefully read the gospels, regardless.  I've read them several times.  I don't hold any even remotely religious beliefs.  But I have a pretty good idea of the image of Jesus portrayed by the gospels.
 
2013-01-07 07:47:08 PM
That explains cursing the fig tree. All the apostles probably ate them all. If Jesus can't poop regularly, no one does!
 
2013-01-07 07:50:23 PM

TwilightZone: Historical evidence is composed of eyewitness reports and physical evidence.


Oh, and let me just stress the shortsightedness of this characterization of "historical evidence." Clearly you've never extensively studied ancient history, since eyewitness reports and physical evidence are often a rare thing.

Alexander the Great, one of the most influential people in the world while he was alive, has almost zero "evidence" (as you define it) of his existence. First hand accounts and physical inscriptions are almost non-existent. Based solely on that "evidence," you'd have no sense of who he is or his importance.

However, there are numerous historical texts mentioning him and his exploits (the most significant are, if you're curious, Arrian, Plutarch, Diodorus, Justinus and Curtius). However, none of these historical texts are firsthand eyewitness accounts... any that did exist once upon a time are long since lost. But there's little doubt regarding Alexander's historical accomplishments or significance (though details can be disputed), despite the lack of eyewitness reports and physical evidence.
 
2013-01-07 07:57:02 PM
How can anyone that full of crap have possibly had diarrhea?
 
2013-01-07 08:20:30 PM
Supes

TwilightZone: Historical evidence is composed of eyewitness reports and physical evidence.

Oh, and let me just stress the shortsightedness of this characterization of "historical evidence." Clearly you've never extensively studied ancient history, since eyewitness reports and physical evidence are often a rare thing.

Alexander the Great, one of the most influential people in the world while he was alive, has almost zero "evidence" (as you define it) of his existence. First hand accounts and physical inscriptions are almost non-existent. Based solely on that "evidence," you'd have no sense of who he is or his importance.

However, there are numerous historical texts mentioning him and his exploits (the most significant are, if you're curious, Arrian, Plutarch, Diodorus, Justinus and Curtius). However, none of these historical texts are firsthand eyewitness accounts... any that did exist once upon a time are long since lost. But there's little doubt regarding Alexander's historical accomplishments or significance (though details can be disputed), despite the lack of eyewitness reports and physical evidence.



Oh for crying out loud, we have coins with Alexander's image -- that's phyisical evidence. Further Greek epigraphy

Decree of Philippi (ca.335-330 BC) Alexander arbitrates a boundary dispute between local Thracian tribes and the city of Philippi.
A dedicatory inscription to Apollo was found at Toumbes Kalamotou, Thessaloniki regional unit ; it records a list of priests of Asclepius who had fulfilled their duties from the time when King Alexandros gave Kalindoia and the villages around to Makedones.[3]
A dedicatory inscription to Olympian Zeus by Philonides of Crete in which he is mentioned as King Alexandros' hemerodromos (cursor) and bematist of Asia.[4][5]
Lindos Chronicle. King Alexandros having defeated Darius in battle and become lord kyrios of Asia, sacrificed to Athena of Lindos.[6][7] boukephala (ox-heads) and hopla (armour)[8]
Antigonus (son of Callas) hetairos from Amphipolis, commemorates his victory in hoplite racing at Heraclean games after the Conquest of Tyrus.
 
2013-01-07 08:44:36 PM

Lord Dimwit: ...God is one God in three Persons, with one essence and all of which are co-eternal.

..

So he's one person in three bodies? In other words, do God and Jesus share a consciousness?

STRYPERSWINE: All of them do, except for the cults like JW. Baptists definitely believe that he was God ("Before Isaiah was, I AM"). In fact, the deity of Christ is one of the few non-negotiable doctrines. We can disagree on infant baptism and it doesn't matter, but the deity of Christ is CENTRAL to Christianity.


I can't speak to anyone else's beliefs, but the religious doctrine I was fed was basically that Jesus is the savior and the key to salvation, but he wasn't a god; his father was. Like a general under a president, to make a clumsy analogy.
 
2013-01-07 09:06:52 PM

Lord Dimwit: Parthenogenetic: elchip: Everybody knows that a Paladin gains immunity to disease at level 3.

Jesus had to be at least level 6, because he could clearly cast "Remove Disease" on others.

We know he's a Paladin rather than a Cleric because he showed proficiency with a whip, and Clerics are restricted to simple weapons (which doesn't include whips).

Did you forget that Jesus raised several people from death? No Paladin would be able to do that, because Raise Dead is not on the Paladin spell list.

When Jesus wielded the whip, he accepted the -4 penalty to hit because of His lack of the exotic weapon proficiency. The money changers would have had a low Armor Class. Jesus would have a reasonably good Base Attack Bonus as a high-level cleric, and He would have been able to cast some decent attack buffs on Himself.

THAC0 is heretical. Invented by Satan.


THAC0 is wacko if you're a teen. Otherwise, I love this part of this thread.
 
2013-01-07 09:18:32 PM

Wayne 985: Don't only Catholics believe that Jesus is God? I was raised as a non-denominational Protestant and attended a Baptist church, where it was made clear that he was meant to be the son of God, almost like a prince regent.

Are there Protestant sects who believe the two are synonymous?


Yes. I can speak for my former sect, the Presbyterian Church (USA), which affirms the Christological teachings of the councils of Nicaea and Chalcedon in its 1983 Brief Statement of Faith: "We trust in Jesus Christ, fully human, fully God"

And my current one, The Episcopal Church, uses the Nicene Creed at nearly every service. This speaks of Jesus as "God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God [...] who for us and for our salvation came down from heaven [...] and was made man."

The divinity of Christ is a fairly settled issue in at least these denominations, plus as far as I understand Lutheranism, Methodism, Congregationalism, and most of the Baptists as well.
 
2013-01-07 09:24:42 PM
Like most farkers, Jesus was a prolific masturbator too.
 
2013-01-07 09:32:55 PM

darth_badger: I bet His poops smelled like fresh baked cookies.


Real estate agents in Bethlehem used to put out plates of fresh, warm Jesus poop when trying to sell a hovel. The smell made them think of a manger-y smell and sealed the deal 57% of the time!
 
2013-01-07 09:36:45 PM
pastormattblog.com

I heard that the real Jesus was brown....
 
2013-01-07 09:37:44 PM

JeffTL: Wayne 985: Don't only Catholics believe that Jesus is God? I was raised as a non-denominational Protestant and attended a Baptist church, where it was made clear that he was meant to be the son of God, almost like a prince regent.

Are there Protestant sects who believe the two are synonymous?

Yes. I can speak for my former sect, the Presbyterian Church (USA), which affirms the Christological teachings of the councils of Nicaea and Chalcedon in its 1983 Brief Statement of Faith: "We trust in Jesus Christ, fully human, fully God"

And my current one, The Episcopal Church, uses the Nicene Creed at nearly every service. This speaks of Jesus as "God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God [...] who for us and for our salvation came down from heaven [...] and was made man."

The divinity of Christ is a fairly settled issue in at least these denominations, plus as far as I understand Lutheranism, Methodism, Congregationalism, and most of the Baptists as well.


The more I read the responses to my post, the more I'm wondering what kind of fringe material my church and parents were teaching. I thought it was fairly normal.
 
2013-01-07 09:47:22 PM
My Take: Jesus is a myth and everyone who claims to be one of his followers makes up a load of bullshiat to make him more like them, so they can feel more like a god.
 
2013-01-07 10:01:48 PM

cedarpark: I heard that the real Jesus was brown....


My first girlfriend went to high school in Phoenix. She was regularly threatened with violence for saying that kind of thing.
 
2013-01-07 10:32:02 PM
I cannot believe I'm the Weeners this...

www.mindhuestudio.com
 
2013-01-07 10:32:59 PM
[facepalm]

Seven years here, and I get hit by the filter.
 
2013-01-07 10:57:35 PM

Ilmarinen: give me doughnuts:
One non-Biblical contemporary reference to him would be nice. And please don't drag Josephus into this as he wasn't even in Jerusalem until 71 AD (and even that one violates Catholic dogma).

What the heck does Catholic dogma have to do with anything? And why do references have to be non-Biblical? If you've got a text from that era, I don't care whether you found it in a latrine or in a collection of holy myths.
Maybe there are no documents about Paul the Apostle outside the NT either, but he sure as hell was real.

Once more, with feeling: you don't have to be a christian to accept Jesus as historical.

/also, again, the Muhammad example


How do we know Paul was real? All there is, is what the Bible and the Church say he was, so no, we don't know that he was real. Using the Bible to prove Paul existed is like using "Moby Dick" to prove Ishmael existed.
And no, there isn't any reliable non-Biblical evidence that Jesus existed. He has the same basis in reality as any other mythological figure
I mentioned Catholic dogma because the Church insists that the Virgin Mary remained a virgin her whole life. Josephus (Titus Flavius Josephus) supposedly mentions Jesus and calls him the "brother of James." Since there was never any mention of Joseph taking a second wife, it would be rather difficult for Jesus to have a brother if his mother was a virgin.
 
2013-01-07 11:20:17 PM

theorellior: I cannot believe I'm the Weeners this...

[www.mindhuestudio.com image 516x433]


The Weeners, eh?
cache.gizmodo.com
 
2013-01-07 11:46:40 PM
Either some guys, way back when, wrote a bunch of stuff on a lark, or it's the inspired word of YHWH, the self proclaimed Creator.
" Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding."
It's one, or the other...... No middle ground.
 
2013-01-07 11:54:45 PM
Probably snuck round the back of the stables to rub One out, too.
 
2013-01-08 12:01:44 AM
Could you imagine, having the audacity to make all the claims that the word of the LORD makes.......and just be another guy, like you or me?!?
"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows."
 
2013-01-08 12:31:27 AM

ReverendJynxed: ChrisDe: No! Jesus was a Caucasian man that spoke English!

Funny we were always taught he was a Jew that spoke Hebrew.


Probably Aramaic, actually. Similar but not the same.
 
2013-01-08 12:38:37 AM

TwilightZone: Oh for crying out loud, we have coins with Alexander's image -- that's phyisical evidence. Further Greek epigraphy

Decree of Philippi (ca.335-330 BC) Alexander arbitrates a boundary dispute between local Thracian tribes and the city of Philippi.
A dedicatory inscription to Apollo was found at Toumbes Kalamotou, Thessaloniki regional unit ; it records a list of priests of Asclepius who had fulfilled their duties from the time when King Alexandros gave Kalindoia and the villages around to Makedones.[3]
A dedicatory inscription to Olympian Zeus by Philonides of Crete in which he is mentioned as King Alexandros' hemerodromos (cursor) and bematist of Asia.[4][5]
Lindos Chronicle. King Alexandros having defeated Darius in battle and become lord kyrios of Asia, sacrificed to Athena of Lindos.[6][7] boukephala (ox-heads) and hopla (armour)[8]
Antigonus (son of Callas) hetairos from Amphipolis, commemorates his victory in hoplite racing at Heraclean games after the Conquest of Tyrus.


You're really just going to copy and paste a list of physical evidence to try to dispute me? Coin engravers, dedicatory inscriptions, still hearsay when the engraver or the inscriber hasn't seen the event. And besides my point stands, the physical "evidence" you cite tells us almost zilch about the significance of Alexander. Ancient histories tell us almost everything we know.
 
2013-01-08 01:11:26 AM

Brian Ryanberger: Is this the thread where liberals make fun of Jesus and get themselves put on a list of people going to hell?


You can say whatever you want about Jesus and He'll forgive you, it's His job.
 
2013-01-08 01:23:11 AM
Yes, Jesus existed. So did David Koresh and Jim Jones.Jesus being a real historical figure does not lend any validity to the claims of divinity. NT scholar Bart Ehrman (who is an atheist) wrote an interesting book that argues the reality of Jesus's existence from linguistic clues in the Gospels

Did Jesus Exist?
 
2013-01-08 04:48:14 AM

TwilightZone: How can a purely fictional character have any disease? That's like saying Zeus had gallstones.


See that's the important distinction. Zeus never had gallstones because he was a god. If Jesus had dysentery then he isn't, or wasn't, divine. It's shooting themselves in the foot. "I can prove my god exists because he was basically a mortal man, and he died... wait." So there's nothing divine about him. Resurrection was very common in those days, Jesus was just the latest in a long line of people to be brought back from the dead. Or to put it another way, people liked playing make believe a lot.

I agree with you though, Jesus is fictional, Alexander clearly wasn't.

Supes: You're really just going to copy and paste a list of physical evidence to try to dispute me? Coin engravers, dedicatory inscriptions, still hearsay when the engraver or the inscriber hasn't seen the event. And besides my point stands, the physical "evidence" you cite tells us almost zilch about the significance of Alexander. Ancient histories tell us almost everything we know.


Are you arguing that, because of the paucity of ancient remains, one can make a case that Alexander the Great might not be real, even though he was. Or are you saying Alexander the Great didn't exist? I'm just asking because I can't tell if you're using him as an example to make a point, or if it's something you really believe.
 
2013-01-08 08:39:13 AM
img.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-08 10:19:40 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: They say that Jesus left behind him a sense of peace and love. What they forget to mention is that he'd also leave behind a basketball-sized chocolate mudbaby and a destroyed a bathroom.

[i49.tinypic.com image 482x352]


And here I was thinking that Jesus beefed forearm-sized logs and heeled it down the drain, or something like that.
 
2013-01-08 10:21:37 PM

011235813: Could you imagine, having the audacity to make all the claims that the word of the LORD makes.......and just be another guy, like you or me?!?


Oh, hard to imagine indeed. It's not like such a thing could happen repeatedly though the history of every human civilization or anything.
 
2013-01-10 05:17:08 PM

BorgiaGinz: Bart Ehrman (who is an atheist) wrote an interesting book that argues the reality of Jesus's existence from linguistic clues in the Gospels


Oh, please. A professor in religious studies who went to an evangelical college, and then a theological institute for a PhD, who devotes his life's work to the study of the new testament? Remarkable if true, but it isn't. He claims to be agnostic, not atheist. It is possible to be agnostic and be of the cloth even. It merely means you think the existence of heaven and God and such are fundamentally unknowable.

Nonetheless, let's take this scholar's statement at face value:

"There is no hard, physical evidence for Jesus .. including no archaeological evidence of any kind"

So, basically he has wild speculation based on a work of literature, parts of which are clearly fictional/allegorical?
 
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