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(Science Daily)   Modern parenting hinders brain development. This explains quite a bit   (sciencedaily.com) divider line 116
    More: Obvious, brain development, moral development  
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12629 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Jan 2013 at 4:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-07 05:59:00 PM
"Studies show that responding to a baby's needs (not letting a baby "cry it out") has been shown to influence the development of conscience"

And eventually your baby realizes that doing a fake cry gets you to come when he wants attention rather than going to sleep. That's the cry you ignore, it's not hard to differentiate. Babies are shiatty actors.
 
2013-01-07 06:00:43 PM

LarryDan43: Summer Glau's Love Slave: One of the things that amazed me the most about living at college was how inept many of my fellow students are. I've had housemates who literally had no idea how to operate a stove or a washing machine. I have a roomie who believes with all his heart that you just dump the frozen orange juice into the pitcher and drink the syrup without adding a drop of water. He set himself on fire last fall because he tried to start a fire by pouring a quart of gasoline on the wood before kneeling down to light it.

I've seen (and smelled) other kids who would go an entire semester without cleaning their clothes or bathing their bods. One of guys who lives across from me ruined a brand new car because he poured water into the oil intake when his car started running hot. And just a few days ago, a girl in who lives on my block shattered her windshield when she used a pan of boiling water to de-ice her windshield.

/And when you ask, Mommy and Daddy did everything for them at home.
//Never a dull moment.
///Feeling a little smug now.
////I get money to sew on buttons and repair clothes, because I'm bootstrappy.

We are Penn State.


my worst mistake after first leaving the nest was putting dish soap in the dishwasher. didn't make that mistake again. though, i did have some extremely clean kitchen floors.

/ they really should put a warning on dishsoap = not for dishwasher.
// the rest of life is really pretty simple. if common sense doesn't solve the issue, reading the directions will. that even holds true for basic car maintenance. oh yeah, and auto shop employees are usually pretty helpful, at least for all my windshield, headlight, air filter, basic maintenance issues.
/// however, DIY plumbing is a farking pain in the ass. next time I'm calling a plumber. cutting pvc pipe and using solvent/cement/etc is not worth it. although, after three failures, i did manage to re-plumb a kitchen sink correctly. so, I only felt like a failure for the inefficiency. i would have saved money by hiring a plumber, paying him, and not wasting time from my compensable labor
//// did not grow up with a lot of DIY knoweldge. but, i studied philosophy, so i can make/fix/break anything with enough time and enough opportunities for trial and error.
 
2013-01-07 06:02:08 PM

Evil Twin Skippy: Raptop: I call BS

I call double BS. It starts off with how formula is the devil and breast feeding is best, and proceeds to lose credibility from there.


Breastfeeding IS the best. That's what they're meant to drink. Breastfed babies have better immune systems and less allergies
 
2013-01-07 06:02:14 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: Sure. Families are the problem.


Not the concept of families -- certainly people are going to form stronger bonds with some of their peers than others -- but the modern definition of families. Where monogamous romantic love/marriage is the core organizing factor (hence all the rights attached to marriage, and all the ridiculous arguments the ensue) to the exclusion of other types relationships. Add to that things like "parental rights" where children are slaves to whatever beings happened to spawn them, and conversely (as was my original point) parents are exclusively tasked with raising children. There are other ways we could define "family" that would make life easier for everyone and avoid arguments about "gay marriage" and 1000 other "family law" issues.
 
2013-01-07 06:02:30 PM

SubjectVerb: I am going to follow everything my mother did (which is wrong according to this idiot author) since I scored off the charts on all standardized tests and graduated college with a 4.0.

/not bragging, offering evidence that this article is BS


But, are you an asshole?

I have no reason to believe that you are, but I know quite a few smart folks....some turned out to be assholes and some didn't. I attribute that to their parents.
 
2013-01-07 06:03:58 PM

ennuie: Smeggy Smurf: Rules of good parenting:

1. Reward good behavior
2. Beat the bad behavior out of them
3. Nevermind fear of God, Fear of Dad (TM) comes first
4. Encourage them to not be little shiats
5. Beat them when they're little shiats
6. Teach them life is hard, then you die

#6 made me the miserable bastard I am today. Double points if you use it to justify your own bad parental behavior.

//You forgot #7 "There's always someone better." If you don't tell your kids that, they might grow up thinking they could be good at things through hard work and perseverance.


You have #7 wrong. There always is somebody better. Learn from them and then beat them. Take their business, steal their clients, hire away their best people and fark his wife.
 
2013-01-07 06:08:34 PM

preybyemail: It takes a village man.


"Village man". Is that the guy The Onion used to interview back in Medieval times?
 
2013-01-07 06:11:33 PM
"OMG, our modern parenting practices are ruining our children!" automatically sets off red flags, since I've heard "Kids today suck" about every group of kids, including the group I belong to, and have read similar statements from many time periods in our recorded history.
 
2013-01-07 06:14:15 PM

Occam's Disposable Razor: This is one dude from a Catholic college who is described as "professor of psychology who specializes in moral development in children." I imagine his entire job is basically finding data to keep his panties in a wad.


ahh, so many positions are mere busy work. we can't all snap the tires onto Hot Wheels, Mr Big Shot career guy.
 
2013-01-07 06:18:07 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: I have a cousin who has a baby and one on the way. The baby recently stopped breastfeeding (on his own), but she has expressed hope that he would want to pick it back up again when he sees his new sibling doing it. Sometimes, you need to just learn to let go.


A former friend of mine was in tears when her 2 year old self weaned. A year later she had another kid, and the now 3 year old wanted to breastfeed again, which she was allowed. Still breast feeding last I knew, but it's been a while since I had to deal with that lady's psychotic episodes towards "friends" that dared disagree with her about anything.
 
2013-01-07 06:18:55 PM
FTA:
"Ill-advised practices and beliefs have become commonplace in our culture, such as the use of infant formula, the isolation of infants in their own rooms or the belief that responding too quickly to a fussing baby will 'spoil' it," Narvaez says.

Are we back in 1925? That's when parents were told the best practice was to ignore your kid as much as possible.
 
2013-01-07 06:20:45 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: profplump: lohphat: What are you supposed to do with a infant or toddler that sleeps only 3 hours at a time as is prone to tantrums? Go without sleep and then go over the edge and kill it?

You don't relegate it to the care of a single person (or two people) -- you let a whole slew of people take turns caring for it.

The isolation caused by "families" is one of the worst things civilization has ever produced. We now live physically closer together than ever before and somehow we have less caregivers available per child.

Sure. Families are the problem.

When my mom needed some time off from us kids, she just dropped us off at a neighbor's house. OK, so they pimped us out for drug money a couple times, but I call that a learning experience. Now we know to always get the money up front.


No, really there is a serious point there. Everyone I met who had moved from Africa was shocked at how isolated British mothers were with babies and small children, and found it hard to cope. That included Brits who had spent several years living there, as well as immigrants. They say there is a saying in Africa that it takes a whole village to raise a child. I get the impression that it is more than just a saying ...
 
2013-01-07 06:25:57 PM
So bullshiat from Dr. Spock, which led to the snowflake generation is still held in higher regard because well RELIGION. Makes sense.

No wonder society is farked up. You allow ideology get in the way of proper decision making even when the right idea comes from someone who may hold religious views. But oh aye, it's the religious "nutjobs" who have it wrong.

Sad day to be a farker when simple truths are swept under the rug because they don't care for one's beliefs.
 
2013-01-07 06:35:30 PM

Occam's Disposable Razor: This is one dude from a Catholic college who is described as "professor of psychology who specializes in moral development in children." I imagine his entire job is basically finding data to keep his panties in a wad.


It can't be true, because I don't respect the source. Which I will not name, but I will make oblique and derogatory remarks about its credentials and authority. I'll also suggest that no one else does similar research, or holds similar views, but again will provide no evidence of that fact.

So as long as we're appealing going to appeal to authority (or against, as the case may be) it's at least worth checking up on the proposed authority before making a judgement. The "Catholic college" you note is Notre Dame and and the professor in question is Darcia F. Narvaez of the Developmental and Cognition, Brain, and Behavior programs in the Department of Psychology.

You can make you own judgement about whether you respect her authority on the topic, and about how widely her views are accepted, but you have to at least make that judgement on real data not on slurs about the religious affiliation of her school.
 
2013-01-07 06:40:06 PM

Raoul Eaton: FTA:
"Ill-advised practices and beliefs have become commonplace in our culture, such as the use of infant formula, the isolation of infants in their own rooms or the belief that responding too quickly to a fussing baby will 'spoil' it," Narvaez says.

Are we back in 1925? That's when parents were told the best practice was to ignore your kid as much as possible.


Apparently it worked. They were spawning the "greatest generation" at that time.
 
2013-01-07 06:40:40 PM
WHAT!??A But liberals and progressives have made it clear that becasue slavery is bad,old parenting techniques, like disciplining your child, is bad
 
2013-01-07 06:41:37 PM
My almost 2 year old has always slept independently...I really don't want to be kicked by a toddler all night long. I did, however breastfeed for a year. Every kid and family are different, and need to do what works for them. She's way ahead of the curve in all areas of development...she's already talking in sentences and knows colors, shapes, animals, letters etc. I'm pretty convinced that she's bright because we talk to her like a person, and not in baby talk. We explain things, and she understands more than we've expected most of the time. My husband and I are both of well above-average intelligence, and it seems like she is too...I'm not sure these other things make that much difference (as long as the child isn't neglected), genetics probably play a big role.
 
2013-01-07 06:44:24 PM
having multiple adult caregivers are some of the nurturing ancestral parenting practices that are shown to positively impact the developing brain,

Disapproves

cache.gawkerassets.com
 
2013-01-07 06:45:03 PM

Frankenstorm: Zombie parenting encourages a hunger for knowledge.


Then how do you explain the lack of American scholars these days?
 
2013-01-07 06:46:20 PM

profplump: The isolation caused by "families" is one of the worst things civilization has ever produced. We now live physically closer together than ever before and somehow we have less caregivers available per child.


I'd refine that to "single generation families". When I was growing up, my great-grandparents lived with us when they couldn't' take care of themselves on their own any longer.
 
2013-01-07 06:46:30 PM

StashMonster: Smelly Pirate Hooker: profplump: lohphat: What are you supposed to do with a infant or toddler that sleeps only 3 hours at a time as is prone to tantrums? Go without sleep and then go over the edge and kill it?

You don't relegate it to the care of a single person (or two people) -- you let a whole slew of people take turns caring for it.

The isolation caused by "families" is one of the worst things civilization has ever produced. We now live physically closer together than ever before and somehow we have less caregivers available per child.

Sure. Families are the problem.

When my mom needed some time off from us kids, she just dropped us off at a neighbor's house. OK, so they pimped us out for drug money a couple times, but I call that a learning experience. Now we know to always get the money up front.

No, really there is a serious point there. Everyone I met who had moved from Africa was shocked at how isolated British mothers were with babies and small children, and found it hard to cope. That included Brits who had spent several years living there, as well as immigrants. They say there is a saying in Africa that it takes a whole village to raise a child. I get the impression that it is more than just a saying ...


Yeah, seriously, get the money up front. FYI from me to younger folk.
 
2013-01-07 06:47:01 PM

dopekitty74: Evil Twin Skippy: Raptop: I call BS

I call double BS. It starts off with how formula is the devil and breast feeding is best, and proceeds to lose credibility from there.

Breastfeeding IS the best. That's what they're meant to drink. Breastfed babies have better immune systems and less allergies


And as long as youre not a self righteous prick about your opinion, thats okay. When you use your opinion to make new mothers feel like failures and get PPD about their inability to breast feed, thats when you become a waste of space on the planet who should be on lifes ignore list.

Thats a subject that you should NEVER freely give your opinion on.. wait until youre asked. If no one asks, thats because no one cares what you think.

/Not that YOU are, just saying...
 
2013-01-07 06:53:19 PM
FTFA: "Studies show that responding to a baby's needs (not letting a baby "cry it out") has been shown to influence the development of conscience; positive touch affects stress reactivity, impulse control and empathy; free play in nature influences social capacities and aggression; and a set of supportive caregivers (beyond the mother alone) predicts IQ and ego resilience as well as empathy."

Going by that I should be a retarded basket case with no care for other people.
 
2013-01-07 06:59:31 PM

meat0918: The My Little Pony Killer: I have a cousin who has a baby and one on the way. The baby recently stopped breastfeeding (on his own), but she has expressed hope that he would want to pick it back up again when he sees his new sibling doing it. Sometimes, you need to just learn to let go.

A former friend of mine was in tears when her 2 year old self weaned. A year later she had another kid, and the now 3 year old wanted to breastfeed again, which she was allowed. Still breast feeding last I knew, but it's been a while since I had to deal with that lady's psychotic episodes towards "friends" that dared disagree with her about anything.


This cousin once posted a Hathor the Cow Goddess comic. Unironically.

/seriously glad she lives in a different state
 
2013-01-07 07:00:43 PM

ReverendJynxed: Sad day to be a farker when simple truths are swept under the rug because they don't care for one's beliefs.


Uh huh.
 
2013-01-07 07:04:39 PM

FSMFTMFW: dopekitty74: Evil Twin Skippy: Raptop: I call BS

I call double BS. It starts off with how formula is the devil and breast feeding is best, and proceeds to lose credibility from there.

Breastfeeding IS the best. That's what they're meant to drink. Breastfed babies have better immune systems and less allergies

And as long as youre not a self righteous prick about your opinion, thats okay. When you use your opinion to make new mothers feel like failures and get PPD about their inability to breast feed, thats when you become a waste of space on the planet who should be on lifes ignore list.

Thats a subject that you should NEVER freely give your opinion on.. wait until youre asked. If no one asks, thats because no one cares what you think.

/Not that YOU are, just saying...


Same for when you act like it's some huge conspiracy that a doctor offered you formula despite your decision to breastfeed. Babies don't always latch, sometimes they're allergic to your milk, there are many reasons why breastfeeding just isn't plausible for some. Maybe you should get over yourselves and understand that the big, bad doctors probably don't want your kid to go hungry just in case things don't work out as planned.

/the general 'you'
//and yes, I have heard the doctor conspiracy angle
 
2013-01-07 07:07:47 PM

profplump: Occam's Disposable Razor: This is one dude from a Catholic college who is described as "professor of psychology who specializes in moral development in children." I imagine his entire job is basically finding data to keep his panties in a wad.

It can't be true, because I don't respect the source. Which I will not name, but I will make oblique and derogatory remarks about its credentials and authority. I'll also suggest that no one else does similar research, or holds similar views, but again will provide no evidence of that fact.

So as long as we're appealing going to appeal to authority (or against, as the case may be) it's at least worth checking up on the proposed authority before making a judgement. The "Catholic college" you note is Notre Dame and and the professor in question is Darcia F. Narvaez of the Developmental and Cognition, Brain, and Behavior programs in the Department of Psychology.

You can make you own judgement about whether you respect her authority on the topic, and about how widely her views are accepted, but you have to at least make that judgement on real data not on slurs about the religious affiliation of her school.


I call it into question because as I said earlier, we hear "kids today suck because their parents suck at being parents" every generation.

That said, my wife and I did the things that this professor recommends with our two children, not because science said to, but because that was what felt right, and what the books said to do or not to do felt wrong. So we didn't do "cry it out" and we did sleep in the same bed.

Both were breastfed, both were carried and cuddled a lot, as well as slept in the bed with us most nights until they were two or so.

I'll be honest, the co-sleeping was done initially because neither of us wanted to get up every two hours to feed a newborn(and since I'm a dude, I would need to warm up any pumped breastmilk if it was my turn to feed him), and since she was breastfeeding anyways, it didn't make sense to get up and get the baby when a woman can breastfeed a baby just as well asleep as she could awake. Eventually she stopped pumping altogether and just let nature do its thing (which caused the pregnancy weight to vanish, to the point she had to eat extra just to maintain a normal body weight).
 
2013-01-07 07:09:42 PM

Summer Glau's Love Slave: One of the things that amazed me the most about living at college was how inept many of my fellow students are. I've had housemates who literally had no idea how to operate a stove or a washing machine. I have a roomie who believes with all his heart that you just dump the frozen orange juice into the pitcher and drink the syrup without adding a drop of water. He set himself on fire last fall because he tried to start a fire by pouring a quart of gasoline on the wood before kneeling down to light it.

I've seen (and smelled) other kids who would go an entire semester without cleaning their clothes or bathing their bods. One of guys who lives across from me ruined a brand new car because he poured water into the oil intake when his car started running hot. And just a few days ago, a girl in who lives on my block shattered her windshield when she used a pan of boiling water to de-ice her windshield.

/And when you ask, Mommy and Daddy did everything for them at home.
//Never a dull moment.
///Feeling a little smug now.
////I get money to sew on buttons and repair clothes, because I'm bootstrappy.


To me, this has *nothing* to do with their parents cuddling too much. In fact, it seems like your parents spent more time with you teaching you how to do shiat. Their parents just ignored them and provided what they needed while trying not to interact with them.

My parents are extreme hippies so we had no spanking, lots of hugs and 'What I love about you...' but they also took the time to teach me how to fix stuff around the house, take care of my pets, cook meals, do every chores, etc.
 
2013-01-07 07:32:46 PM
I decided to RTFA and it's more about children developing stronger morals and compassion rather than intelligence.

Perhaps kids aren't developing those skills because society is immoral and lacks compassion.
 
2013-01-07 07:41:29 PM

meat0918: I call it into question because as I said earlier, we hear "kids today suck because their parents suck at being parents" every generation.

That said, my wife and I did the things that this professor recommends with our two children, not because science said to, but because that was what felt right, and what the books said to do or not to do felt wrong. So we didn't do "cry it out" and we did sleep in the same bed.

Both were breastfed, both were carried and cuddled a lot, as well as slept in the bed with us most nights until they were two or so.

I'll be honest, the co-sleeping was done initially because neither of us wanted to get up every two hours to feed a newborn(and since I'm a dude, I would need to warm up any pumped breastmilk if it was my turn to feed him), and since she was breastfeeding anyways, it didn't make sense to get up and get the baby when a woman can breastfeed a baby just as well asleep as she could awake. Eventually she stopped pumping altogether and just let nature do its thing (which caused the pregnancy weight to vanish, to the point she had to eat extra just to maintain a normal body weight).


My mom had to start working full-time when my sister was two or three, and my biological father is about as nurturing as a brick. So I pretty much just went with my gut. Lots of hugs, holding her all the time, baby-voice and stupid nicknames, singing songs...I probably let her watch too much TV, but other than that I pretty much went with what TFA said. Partly because the research was around already, but mostly because you  can't watch a baby cry without picking them up, or at least I can't. It's actually really difficult to do.

/Eight, and she's a bright, outgoing kid that the entire family dotes on
//My mom now being primary caretaker is a lovely thing. I can Fark and do other miscellanous non-small-child-related activities.
 
2013-01-07 07:48:35 PM
We too cosleep out of laziness. The best part? We have a kid who sleeps as late as we do. Which is pretty damn late. I don't think I'll regret cuddling him when he's older.
 
2013-01-07 08:00:11 PM

SubjectVerb: I am going to follow everything my mother did (which is wrong according to this idiot author) since I scored off the charts on all standardized tests and graduated college with a 4.0.

/not bragging, offering evidence that this article is BS



Congratulations. Education isn't everything though.
 
2013-01-07 08:15:55 PM

FourPetesake: My almost 2 year old has always slept independently...I really don't want to be kicked by a toddler all night long forget about having sex for the next 5 years.


/Not a parent, but that's where my mindset would be
 
2013-01-07 09:05:47 PM
Boobs. We have them for a reason. (Well, a couple reasons)
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-01-07 09:27:17 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: I have a cousin who has a baby and one on the way. The baby recently stopped breastfeeding (on his own), but she has expressed hope that he would want to pick it back up again when he sees his new sibling doing it. Sometimes, you need to just learn to let go.


Bitty!
www.documentingreality.com
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-01-07 09:32:54 PM

Need_MindBleach: Boobs. We have them for a reason. (Well, a couple reasons)


To please men?
 
2013-01-07 09:39:44 PM

12349876: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Spank your horrible children.

Someone didn't RTFA.

And for all those who also won't, this article is arguing for MORE nurturing for the infants. More breast feeding, more physical contact, less sleeping alone and 'crying it out'.


...which is why it seemed weird to me that they're complaining about modern practices vs. fifty years ago. Fifty years ago was all about scheduled "scientific" feeding and formula and keeping baby in his own room to cry it out, wasn't it? The 50's into the 60's?

If anything I thought attachment parenting and co-sleeping and all that business was on the rise now... but perhaps that's just among yuppies. I guess I can kinda see the car seat thing.
 
2013-01-07 10:04:38 PM

itazurakko: 12349876: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Spank your horrible children.

Someone didn't RTFA.

And for all those who also won't, this article is arguing for MORE nurturing for the infants. More breast feeding, more physical contact, less sleeping alone and 'crying it out'.

...which is why it seemed weird to me that they're complaining about modern practices vs. fifty years ago. Fifty years ago was all about scheduled "scientific" feeding and formula and keeping baby in his own room to cry it out, wasn't it? The 50's into the 60's?

If anything I thought attachment parenting and co-sleeping and all that business was on the rise now... but perhaps that's just among yuppies. I guess I can kinda see the car seat thing.


Yea this stuff is way in. When I was a kid it was normal for parents not to breast feed. Now if you are unable to breast feed for some reason people go psycho and attack you about how you are poisoning your kid. When I have kids I fully intend to breast feed until they are one or two, but if for some reason I am physically unable to, I don't believe that formula will literally kill them.
 
2013-01-07 10:09:22 PM
FTFA: Whether the corollary to these modern practices or the result of other forces, an epidemic of anxiety and depression among all age groups, including young children; rising rates of aggressive behavior and delinquency in young children; and decreasing empathy, the backbone of compassionate, moral behavior, among college students, are shown in research.

It's the economy, stupid. Nowadays, both parents have to work just to make ends meet. Half of kids growing up see mom and dad get a divorce. Kids see their parents stressed out over being able to keep their jobs amid a "new economy" which is based on employers who use the threat of layoffs to keep wages depressed and benefits to an absolute minimum. Kids aspiring to work in a technical field when they grow up watch as their parents' technical jobs are being sent out of the country. Kids are growing up in households where the family loses its home and has to move into substandard accommodations while they watch rich, spoiled politicians argue on TV about whether or not we should have affordable health care in this country. There are people out there telling children that there's no reason to bother going to college because the benefit doesn't justify the cost. Just strive to flip those burgers. Everything we're seeing out there is telling us that we (the U.S.) have had our time, economically. There's nothing left to strive for, at least not here in this country. The rich people don't want to pay taxes. The politicians don't think that most "normal folk" are worth helping out. Working parents do what they can to make a decent living and provide some semblance of a normal life for their kids, while they know deep down inside that something is very wrong with the way things are. And on top of all that... the kids pick up on it. They might not know the ugly details, but they know that mommy and daddy (if they're both still around) are worried and stressed. And in those households where the parents are too busy with their own problems to pay attention to their kids... well...

Okay... I need to stop. Otherwise I'll wind up slitting my own wrists.

/it's not going to get better
//we're pretty much screwed
///most kids growing up today don't have anything to shoot for
 
2013-01-07 10:15:45 PM

Fark Me To Tears: FTFA: Whether the corollary to these modern practices or the result of other forces, an epidemic of anxiety and depression among all age groups, including young children; rising rates of aggressive behavior and delinquency in young children; and decreasing empathy, the backbone of compassionate, moral behavior, among college students, are shown in research.

It's the economy, stupid. Nowadays, both parents have to work just to make ends meet. Half of kids growing up see mom and dad get a divorce. Kids see their parents stressed out over being able to keep their jobs amid a "new economy" which is based on employers who use the threat of layoffs to keep wages depressed and benefits to an absolute minimum. Kids aspiring to work in a technical field when they grow up watch as their parents' technical jobs are being sent out of the country. Kids are growing up in households where the family loses its home and has to move into substandard accommodations while they watch rich, spoiled politicians argue on TV about whether or not we should have affordable health care in this country. There are people out there telling children that there's no reason to bother going to college because the benefit doesn't justify the cost. Just strive to flip those burgers. Everything we're seeing out there is telling us that we (the U.S.) have had our time, economically. There's nothing left to strive for, at least not here in this country. The rich people don't want to pay taxes. The politicians don't think that most "normal folk" are worth helping out. Working parents do what they can to make a decent living and provide some semblance of a normal life for their kids, while they know deep down inside that something is very wrong with the way things are. And on top of all that... the kids pick up on it. They might not know the ugly details, but they know that mommy and daddy (if they're both still around) are worried and stressed. And in those households where the parents are t ...


It's as if you channeled my thoughts. I came here to state just about verbatim what you wrote.
 
2013-01-07 10:34:07 PM
Yeah.. we co-slept with our kids.. heck, still often sleep with them and they're 2, 5, and 7.. they were all breastfed until 18 months, and NEVER cried ANYTHING out.

My wife was just telling me how she has heard parents talk or facebook about sitting in another room while their infant or toddler wales for a parent to come pick it up and they sit there in another room "letting them cry it out" because some jackass told them that's what a parent is supposed to do in order to condition the child to not expect their parents to show them compassion.. and describing this as a parent as being "torture" or "the hardest thing I've ever done".

Yeah, you know why it feels like that... because tens of thousands of years of humanity, and the souls of dozens of generations of dead ancestors are screaming at you to GO GET THAT BABY AND HOLD IT, YA JACKWAGON!!!

They come into this world entirely dependent on you... you don't get a trophy for making them non-dependent faster than everyone else. You've got 18 years to slowly foster independence, ya don't have to do it all in the first 2 years, you know.
 
2013-01-07 10:37:34 PM
I'm told that for months after I was born I did nothing but cry. If I was awake, I was crying. Presumably I was mechanically prevented from crying while taking in fluids and at other times when the airway was occluded, but my parents stress that the crying was uniform and continual. There was no apparent trigger, nor could they find anything that would stop it -- and of course in desperation they tried everything the law allowed, and some things it doesn't. Nothing worked. It was full-on crying too. I'd draw in a full lung of air, scream it out with all my might, and repeat until I went unconscious.

Months of this, my parents tell me with thousand-yard looks on their faces. The neighbors were concerned. Medical help was sought which culminated in a neurological consultation and lumbar puncture. The expert help was baffled.

It eventually cleared up on its own as mysteriously as it came on. I grew into the reclusive misanthrope that I've been ever since. I've often wondered if that original, maniacal crying fit was my inchoate reaction to the discovery that the world was full of humans and I was one of them. (The horror!) That's the theory which best fits the facts anyway. Still, one wonders if it wasn't indicative of some oddity of brain development and if something better might have been done about it.

I still kind of want to scream when I'm in the presence of people, especially the nasty bastard who lurks in the mirror, but much less now that I'm grown. The discovery that killing or having sex with them is an at least hypothetical option has been a great comfort.
 
2013-01-07 10:38:23 PM
And to those saying "yeah, but if I don't let it cry it out, how am I ever going to get a good night's sleep with a baby screaming in the other room.. durrrr..."

Ya know, if you go get that baby and let it sleep in the room with you (preferrably next to Mom so that it can self-serve), then everyone sleeps through the night.. every night.

/3 kids
//never spent a single night up with a child.
 
2013-01-07 10:59:01 PM
I'm a dad of two at this point. Both of them have very different temperaments. And we go back and forth about nurturing vs. fostering independence.

And that's just it with parenting. Each kid needs something different, and each parent has different things they can give, and different situations call for different reactions.

Anyone who can tell you something that works for all parents with all kids in all situations is either a fool, selling you something, or both.
 
2013-01-07 11:30:02 PM
I've read that another problem in the last century or so is that our nuclear families have tended to relocate themselves away from extended family who can offer parenting advice. Instead, new parents got advice from pop psychologists trying to sell books and even doctors spouting experimental or just plain wrong advice. Only in the last few decades does it seem that people have been starting to reject and discourage unnatural parenting techniques and practices made popular through the mid 20th century.
 
2013-01-07 11:30:20 PM

Evil Twin Skippy: I'm a dad of two at this point. Both of them have very different temperaments. And we go back and forth about nurturing vs. fostering independence.

And that's just it with parenting. Each kid needs something different, and each parent has different things they can give, and different situations call for different reactions.

Anyone who can tell you something that works for all parents with all kids in all situations is either a fool, selling you something, or both.


That's absolutely true for kids as they get older and start developing their own personalities... but I can tell you that all babies want to be held by a parent rather than left crying out of sight.... that doesn't make me a fool or selling you anything, or either, actually.
 
2013-01-08 12:00:46 AM
Sure, modern parenting hinders brain development. But the kids already think you're idiots, so who cares?
 
2013-01-08 12:07:24 AM
When my Mother realized I could hold my breath until I turned blue but not until it killed me, she relaxed her parenting techniques considerably.

But I had her freaking there for a while!
 
2013-01-08 12:26:15 AM

Summer Glau's Love Slave: One of the things that amazed me the most about living at college was how inept many of my fellow students are. I've had housemates who literally had no idea how to operate a stove or a washing machine. I have a roomie who believes with all his heart that you just dump the frozen orange juice into the pitcher and drink the syrup without adding a drop of water. He set himself on fire last fall because he tried to start a fire by pouring a quart of gasoline on the wood before kneeling down to light it.

I've seen (and smelled) other kids who would go an entire semester without cleaning their clothes or bathing their bods. One of guys who lives across from me ruined a brand new car because he poured water into the oil intake when his car started running hot. And just a few days ago, a girl in who lives on my block shattered her windshield when she used a pan of boiling water to de-ice her windshield.

/And when you ask, Mommy and Daddy did everything for them at home.
//Never a dull moment.
///Feeling a little smug now.
////I get money to sew on buttons and repair clothes, because I'm bootstrappy.


CSB time.

I had a temporary roomie during college. Well, roomie... The apartment had a free room and we sub let it to him for a few months. He usually took all his clothes to his mother for washing while we had a perfectly fine washer and dryer. Hell, we even explained how the stuff worked. The dryer was explained three times. It had 3 buttons (start, something I never used and something I never used) and one dial for selecting the program. The dial had 2 basic areas. Cotton and Synthetic. Each area was subdivided in three options: Extra dry, closet dry, dry enough for ironing. All you had to do was turn the dial, hit start. Empty the water container if the red light turned on.

He also put non-chargeable batteries in the telephone because he thought the rechargeable batteries were running low. he then put the phone back in the dock. He didn't know that the dock was also a battery charger. When I found out what the weird humming was the batteries were starting to sweat.

He didn't know how to fix a flat tire on his bike, wanted to see how I was going to change a pedal on a bike (because unscrewing a nut, putting on the other pedal and refastening the nut is so spectacular), Couldn't/wouldn't cook. He wouldn't even try something as basic as potatoes, meat and vegetables because he didn't know how to do that. He wouldn't pre-heat the oven because "that's not necessary" yet he'd make multiple guess as to when the pizza was done. Seriously. I have seen him take the pizza out of the oven, take a bite and put it back in because it wasn't done. Even if you don't want to pre-heat the oven you should roughly know the required time after the first pizza.

I liked the guy well enough but sometimes I wondered how he ever managed remember how to breathe.

/CSB
 
2013-01-08 01:28:59 AM
My kid is smarter and more well adjusted than the rest of the kids in her preschool. I think it is because we put her there for socialization skills as opposed to just dumping her there for other people to raise. We're incredibly lucky though, most families can't afford to have a parent stay home during their early years. Hugs and attention is all they really need.

Pretty shocked when friends are totally fine having other people raise their kids for them.
 
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