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(MSNBC)   Senate GOP Leader says the GOP will use "whatever leverage we have", including breaching the debt ceiling, to force Obama to not only make spending cuts, but take credit for them so the GOP can campaign against him for doing it   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 130
    More: Fail, Becerra, E.J. Dionne, Carly Fiorina, GOP, Mitch McConnell, Newt Gingrich, human beings, Dick Durbin  
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2361 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Jan 2013 at 4:13 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-07 12:44:33 PM  
I don't understand this idea that the debt ceiling is 'leverage'. Lots of things can become 'leverage' if you choose to make them so. Why doesn't the GOP threaten to just break Malia Obama's knees? I mean, that's also leverage.
 
2013-01-07 12:54:37 PM  

DamnYankees: I don't understand this idea that the debt ceiling is 'leverage'.


It really isn't. The media is treating this as if this is a normal way of doing things. It is not. It is, not counting the last time we went through this last year, unprecedented. Spending cuts (something the GOP wants) "in exchange" for raising the debt ceiling (something that has to happen. Period. Full stop) is not a negotiation. The media is treating it like it is. Because they're so liberal, you see.
 
2013-01-07 01:01:08 PM  
Shoot the hostage.
 
2013-01-07 01:09:29 PM  
Good luck with that.
 
2013-01-07 01:10:18 PM  

Vodka Zombie: Shoot the hostage.


...and THEN negotiate!  because the GOP is hardcore like that.
 
2013-01-07 01:17:23 PM  
Truly an awesome gathering of visionaries and statesmen.
 
2013-01-07 01:20:15 PM  
Let's not re-litigate the past. Move forward, not backward... and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
 
2013-01-07 01:37:56 PM  
Good job telegraphing your plan, idiots.
 
2013-01-07 02:15:25 PM  
Burn GOP, burn in hell.
 
2013-01-07 02:54:11 PM  

Weaver95: Vodka Zombie: Shoot the hostage.

...and THEN negotiate!  because the GOP is hardcore like that.


"Do what we say, or we'll shoot this dead hostage again!  We're serious!  Really?  Ask the medical examiner.  We're just making more work for him at this point, and we're not afraid to ruin his weekend.

In fact, let's shoot the medical examiner!"
 
2013-01-07 03:01:03 PM  
The choices it will face quickly become stark. It can cover interest on the debt, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, defense spending, education, food stamps and other low-income transfers, and a handful of other programs, but doing all that will mean defaulting on everything - really, everything - else. The FBI will shut down. The people responsible for tracking down loose nukes will lose their jobs. The prisons won't operate. The biomedical researchers won't be funded. The court system will close its doors. The tax refunds won't go out. The Federal Aviation Administration will go offline. The parks will close. Food safety inspections will cease.

This is the difference between a debt-ceiling shutdown and a government shutdown. As Shai Akabas, a research at the Bipartisan Policy Center, puts it, "in a government shutdown, the government is shutting down future obligations. With the debt ceiling, They've already obligated the money. They owe these people the payments now, and they can't make them."

This is what would happen if we breach the debt ceiling
 
2013-01-07 03:09:35 PM  
Then it was really a good idea letting Biden give them those cuts and have them due to happen right when the debt ceiling was due to be raised wasn't it?
 
2013-01-07 03:26:18 PM  
The GOP is scared of taking credit of spending cuts.  Our country will be bankrupt within 15 years.  And if you think the poor is neglected now, just wait until we run out of money for everything.
 
2013-01-07 03:41:30 PM  

SlothB77: Our country will be bankrupt within 15 years


Well I'm sure opposing all tax increases and refusing to raise the debt ceiling will fix that.
 
2013-01-07 03:46:30 PM  
Terrorist Turtle strikes again. Slowly.
 
2013-01-07 03:50:36 PM  
Why don't we create a blue ribbon panel, a national commission to study the problem of fiscal responsibility and reform?

The panel could make recommendations and then we could follow the plan that they put out?
 
2013-01-07 03:58:55 PM  
Economic terrorists. Gotta love 'em.
 
2013-01-07 04:01:16 PM  

SlothB77: The GOP is scared of taking credit of spending cuts.  Our country will be bankrupt within 15 years.  And if you think the poor is neglected now, just wait until we run out of money for everything.


If you ever get a GOP POTUS again, debt will no longer be an issue.
 
2013-01-07 04:03:12 PM  

mrshowrules: SlothB77: The GOP is scared of taking credit of spending cuts.  Our country will be bankrupt within 15 years.  And if you think the poor is neglected now, just wait until we run out of money for everything.

If you ever get a GOP POTUS again, debt will no longer be an issue.


The debt, like their ethics, are situational.
 
2013-01-07 04:03:27 PM  

SlothB77: Our country will be bankrupt within 15 years.


Literally impossible.
 
2013-01-07 04:08:20 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: SlothB77: Our country will be bankrupt within 15 years.

Literally impossible.


NO the debt is a VERY BIG DEAL and I am VERY CONCERNED ABOUT IT
 
2013-01-07 04:09:12 PM  

Weaver95: Vodka Zombie: Shoot the hostage.

...and THEN negotiate!  because the GOP is hardcore like that.


I think it's going to go something like this (metaphorically...with the GOP representing the Mangalores):

s9.postimage.org

...And we know what happened next.
 
2013-01-07 04:14:08 PM  
Time to mint the coin
 
2013-01-07 04:16:29 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: The choices it will face quickly become stark. It can cover interest on the debt, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, defense spending, education, food stamps and other low-income transfers, and a handful of other programs, but doing all that will mean defaulting on everything - really, everything - else. The FBI will shut down. The people responsible for tracking down loose nukes will lose their jobs. The prisons won't operate. The biomedical researchers won't be funded. The court system will close its doors. The tax refunds won't go out. The Federal Aviation Administration will go offline. The parks will close. Food safety inspections will cease.

This is the difference between a debt-ceiling shutdown and a government shutdown. As Shai Akabas, a research at the Bipartisan Policy Center, puts it, "in a government shutdown, the government is shutting down future obligations. With the debt ceiling, They've already obligated the money. They owe these people the payments now, and they can't make them."

This is what would happen if we breach the debt ceiling


That is all true, and I agree.  BUT, since most of the world operates on fiat currency, then any debt issues are merely "perceived" issues.  they money that the world economy circulates doesn't exist, nor did it ever exist.  It is simply numbers on paper.  We don't even need platinum coins to solve the problem.  We simply need to edit some cells in some Excel file at the Treasury, then go home for the evening.

Now, does that sound nuts?  You bet.  But, when the problems we have are arbitrary, why are we so averse to entertaining arbitrary solutions?
 
2013-01-07 04:17:12 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: SlothB77: Our country will be bankrupt within 15 years.

Literally impossible.


Making working class people think our country is broke is a useful distraction from the system we have built up over the past thirty years in which we have been steadily funneling money upwards to the top tier. We have lots of money alright, it's just all concentrated at the top.
 
2013-01-07 04:17:51 PM  
I'd say Obama should call their bluff, that their corporate backers wouldn't let the GOP burn America's economy to the ground like that. But with the rise of the teabaggers, there are enough actual, raving fanatics in Conrgess that there is a very real possibility that they'd let America default.
 
2013-01-07 04:18:55 PM  
Well it's good to know that we've resolved the revenue issue anyways.
 
2013-01-07 04:19:07 PM  
whatever leverage we have...

That's cute. He thinks they have leverage.
 
2013-01-07 04:19:27 PM  
Didn't the West Wing handle this with

Link

"Yeah, you know, the immediate collapse of the US economy followed by Japan sinking into the sea followed by a world wide depression the likes of which no mortal can imagine, followed by week two."
 
2013-01-07 04:19:57 PM  

CPennypacker: Time to mint the coin


There is no way Obama will do it.  He has never dropped the hammer on them, and he won't now.
 
2013-01-07 04:21:03 PM  

vernonFL: Why don't we create a blue ribbon panel, a national commission to study the problem of fiscal responsibility and reform?

The panel could make recommendations and then we could follow the plan that they put out?


That would work as well as hoping that the recommendations from a blue ribbon panel of experts will keep your 6 year old from continuing to beat up your 4 year old.
//slightly pessimistic this lifetime
 
2013-01-07 04:23:07 PM  

EvilEgg: CPennypacker: Time to mint the coin

There is no way Obama will do it.  He has never dropped the hammer on them, and he won't now.


No time like the present to nut up.

Threaten to mint the coin and then offer the house a deal:

The president relinquishes the power to mint coins in exchange for abolishing the debt ceiling.
 
2013-01-07 04:23:49 PM  

dudemanbro: Burn GOP and national media, burn in hell.


They keep coming whenever the GOP shout 'wolf'.
 
2013-01-07 04:23:55 PM  
McConnell translated: We'll destroy the economy if you don't hand us the reins of power.

The debt ceiling is better understood as a ticking time bomb, not a hostage. In which case, Republicans would agree that Obama should have Boehner and McConnell waterboarded and sleep deprived until they defuse the bomb.
 
Bf+
2013-01-07 04:24:26 PM  
Republicans concerned about debt?
Why don't I believe this?
 
2013-01-07 04:24:28 PM  
The GOP are economic terrorists, and as usual, the worst threat faced by the nation and even the world.
 
2013-01-07 04:25:34 PM  

EvilEgg: CPennypacker: Time to mint the coin

There is no way Obama will do it.  He has never dropped the hammer on them, and he won't now.


It'd be amazing if he did it though. Mint three of them, and drop 'em in the treasury. Then, flip the GOP the bird as you drop the mic.
 
2013-01-07 04:26:43 PM  
"There is no god but norquist, and cantor is his prophet. Insh'orquist!" * kaboom *

- from Scenes From The 113th Congress, A Retrospective Look At How Fundamentalism Destroyed America
 
2013-01-07 04:27:37 PM  
www.carlsontoons.com
 
2013-01-07 04:28:30 PM  
Actually this one is better:

img4.allvoices.com
 
2013-01-07 04:29:35 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Good job telegraphing your plan, idiots.


Nah. They're smart enough to know that their voters are too stupid to connect the dots. They could publicly state that they plan to outlaw hoverounds in the red states and the idiots would *still* vote GOP.
 
2013-01-07 04:29:38 PM  
If these guys coached an NFL team, they would force the quarterback to keep talking to them until the clock ran out, then they'd say "We *told* you he couldn't throw."
 
2013-01-07 04:29:45 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: SlothB77: Our country will be bankrupt within 15 years.

Literally impossible.


Thank you for this.
 
2013-01-07 04:30:47 PM  
There isn't much leverage involved on your part when you are taking it up the rear, GOP.
 
2013-01-07 04:31:32 PM  

NateGrey: Actually this one is better:

[img4.allvoices.com image 609x480]


That is better.
 
2013-01-07 04:31:39 PM  

CPennypacker: Time to mint the coin


farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2013-01-07 04:33:11 PM  
Just defer the income of all Federal employees, including the military. Seems like we've done it before. I give the Republicans two weeks before they cave.

No more negotiating.
 
2013-01-07 04:35:05 PM  

CPennypacker: EvilEgg: CPennypacker: Time to mint the coin

There is no way Obama will do it.  He has never dropped the hammer on them, and he won't now.

No time like the present to nut up.
Threaten to mint the coin and then offer the house a deal:
The president relinquishes the power to mint coins in exchange for abolishing the debt ceiling.



Not only will Obama not do it, he shouldn't do it. If Congress is willing to run the country into the ground, that's their prerogative. Elections have consequences and all. I'm sorry but at some point we have to admit dipshiats elected some dipshiats and they want some dipshiat stuff done.
 
2013-01-07 04:37:21 PM  
The GOP has no interest whatsoever in reducing the deficit. In fact, they don't really even care about cutting spending except in that it punishes groups that vote Democrat. All they really care about is hostage negotiating the Democrats into proposing spending cuts that they can later campaign against them on.

Evil, evil people. Most of the people who vote GOP aren't evil though, just willfully ignorant and easily duped.
 
2013-01-07 04:37:38 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: DamnYankees: I don't understand this idea that the debt ceiling is 'leverage'.

It really isn't. The media is treating this as if this is a normal way of doing things. It is not. It is, not counting the last time we went through this last year, unprecedented. Spending cuts (something the GOP wants) "in exchange" for raising the debt ceiling (something that has to happen. Period. Full stop) is not a negotiation. The media is treating it like it is. Because they're so liberal, you see.


oh come on. the media's the reason you know its not normal. the media have to report what mainstream politicians are saying it, and just about half of them are saying it. everyone blames the media for everything, but I hear the "debt ceiling has been raising 72 times since 1960' (or whatever) refrain every time anyone brings this stuff up.
 
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